Focus on the Family Broadcast

John Fuller: Welcome to another Best of 2021 episode of Focus on the Family. Today we’re featuring the powerful story of a former abortion doctor for Planned Parenthood.

Preview:

Dr. Patti Giebink: And I just intensively was studying the Bible with direction and understanding it, and at some point … And I, I don’t exactly know when, but it became so clear to me that, that God is a God of life. That’s His character. That’s His heart. There should be no question.

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John: That’s Dr. Patti Giebink describing how God brought her out of the abortion industry and transformed her life. She’s our guest today on Focus on the Family, and your host is Focus President and author Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller

Jim Daly: John, we had a fascinating discussion with Patti. And looking back, I see two powerful themes in our conversation. First, God’s word changes people. I’m sure it has changed you. As you’ll hear later, a friend happened to invite Patti to church, and when she heard the Bible taught for the first time, she said the scales fell from her eyes. It’s a good reminder that the Holy Spirit does the work. We just have to introduce people to God’s word. Patti also reminded us that advocating for life is a spiritual battle. We can’t expect to win others over with simple logic and science unless we reflect the love of Christ.

John: I really agree with you about that, Jim and Dr. Giebink’s story is remarkable. As a listener, you can find out more in her book Unexpected Choice: An Abortion Doctor’s Journey to Pro-Life. Get in touch with us to learn more about getting a copy. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Let’s go ahead and revisit this Best of 2021 episode on today’s Focus on the Family.

Jim: Patti, welcome to Focus on the Family.

Dr. Giebink: Thank you.

Jim: I’m actually thrilled to talk with you because you have such a unique perspective, given the journey God has, uh (laughs), put you upon. I mean, eh, it’s amazing. Um, how were you first exposed to abortion? Let’s start there.

Dr. Giebink: Well, that’s a good question. Um, I grew up in a very liberal household, and I remember talking to my dad when he was, uh, an intern, and he was … He talked about the, uh, illegal abortions and women coming to the ER, and, uh, infected and bleeding, and … So, I, um, kind of went down a path of being pro-choice, never really thinking I would become an abortion doctor. That wasn’t, it wasn’t really my plan. With all the history pre-Roe v. Wade, women dying or becoming physically injured by illegal abortions, you know, that’s what was so prevalent among these women’s groups when I was in medical school. And I studied Roe v. Wade, read a lot of books on it, and the interesting thing is … And so, between my, my dad and what I was hearing and … I didn’t know that the numbers were inflated of the number of women dying every year from illegal abortion.

Jim: Correct. They just picked a number.

Dr. Giebink: Well, I suppose I had my “aha” moment when I was reading Bernard Nathanson’s book. Dr. Nathanson is a former abortion doctor. He has since died. But he talks about pre-Roe v. Wade how they knew that the only way they were going to get public support was to inflate the numbers-

Jim: Of women dying-

Dr. Giebink: And, of women dying-

Jim: In back-alley abortions, so-called-

Dr. Giebink: From illegal abortions. The, the deaths and the injury. And so, they really inflated the numbers. And of course, I didn’t know that. A-a-and it just really stopped me in my tracks, and, and I thought, okay, the foundation for doing what I was doing was gone.

John: Because it was predicated on a lie-

Dr. Giebink: On saving women’s lives.

John: Yeah.

Dr. Giebink: Providing good health care, saving women’s lives, keeping them from, um, some unsafe thing. And I remember the women in a, uh, pro-choice women’s groups had significant history, and they would talk about their experiences. And it wa-, it was awful. Um, I think we have learned so much since Roe v. Wade. Um, ultrasound was probably not even available in early Roe v. Wade. It was just in its infancy, and so there wasn’t that option. And we didn’t know everything we know now, so in the mid-’90s, 1990s, when I was working at Planned Parenthood and I said, “Well, it’s just tissue. You know, it’s, it’s just tissue.”

Jim: Yeah. L-let’s go back to 1995. You began working at Planned Parenthood. Uh, describe … I think the first two years, you were part time-

Dr. Giebink: Yeah-

Jim: And then your third, in your third year, you became full-time.

Dr. Giebink: Yeah.

Jim: So just describe that decision and your own practice. You sold it, and then you moved into full-time eventually with Planned Parenthood.

Dr. Giebink: Well, I had my own practice. Um, I was very busy in obstetrics, delivering babies, and the solo, uh, abortion doctor wanted to retire. So, he made an arrangement with Planned Parenthood, and they approached me and asked me if I would do abortions one day a week-

Jim: Hmm.

Dr. Giebink: Their abortion day. They didn’t do abortions every day. They did them only as often as they had people. So, I would be doing, delivering babies like the day before and the day after, and then-

John: Hmm.

Dr. Giebink: I’d go do the abortion day. Um, which at the time wasn’t too bad. I mean, it wa- … Uh, when I think back and I think, well, that’s kind of mentally schizophrenic, you know. Working really hard to save my OB patients and their babies and, and then the next day going in and doing pregnancy terminations.

Jim: Did, did that plant a seed of doubt for you? I mean, you describe it like that now. Was that the beginning of your uneasiness or your wrestling with this? Was that contradiction that you had to live through?

Dr. Giebink: Not really. Um, I think sometimes, as a, in order to do abortions, we put pretty thick blinders on. You know?

Jim: Yeah.

Dr. Giebink: Stay focused. Um-

Jim: That’s, that’s the big part of the story, right?

Dr. Giebink: Yeah.

Jim: I mean, you’re just, in essence, a scientist, and you’re performing a scientific routine-

Dr. Giebink: Right-

Jim: To take care of this woman’s difficulty.

Dr. Giebink: Right.

Jim: In that regard, uh, while you’re at Planned Parenthood, you wanted to do more to invest in women’s health care, and, and Planned Parenthood didn’t respond that well to that. What, what was that contradiction that you saw working at Planned Parenthood?

Dr. Giebink: When they, um, made me an offer to close my practice and work there full-time, I don’t even remember how I considered it, but I did, and I ended up closing my practice and working there full-time. And again, still just doing abortion day and then doing non-abortion things on the other days that I was working there, which could be OB ultrasound, dating ultrasounds, um, GYN exams.

Jim: But in that healthcare, uh, desire, you kind of were met with, uh, a cold shoulder is the way I read it, that they weren’t as interested in providing health care. They were about queuing up the abortions, and let’s keep it moving forward, basically. Did I read that correctly?

Dr. Giebink: Yeah. Make no mistake they’re about money. And abortion is their top moneymaker. And I remember that we had a point where we’d break even, we had to do at least I can’t remember if it was 8 or 10 procedures to break even on abortion day. And of course, then we had considerably more procedures so then anything above that would be profit. My passion has always been to help women. To provide good health care. And I didn’t when I was working part time, I didn’t, you know, abortion days were really crazy, and I didn’t really think about – Is this good health care or not? It was just, you know, busy, but when I worked there full time, it really became apparent to me that. That my hands were tied as far as providing good health care,

Jim: That wasn’t the objective-

John: for Planned Parenthood

Jim: … is the point. Yeah.

Dr. Giebink: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: And the tying of the hands was just that, right?

Dr. Giebink: Yeah.

Jim: That’s not our number one priority.

Dr. Giebink: They have, at that time, it was pages and pages in a big, thick manual about protocol and what you can do and what you can’t do. What you can say what you can’t say. What your job is. And it was very clear to me that I was a technician. It wasn’t my job, really, to counsel or do anything that isn’t in the manual.

Jim: I-I-in fact, you had a woman show up at the clinic who was struggling with that decision. Describe that interaction and what was the outcome.

Dr. Giebink: Well, like I said in the book, I didn’t really see the patient until she got into the exam room, the procedure room, which was a very small room. And she’d already been, paid her money, been counseled, signed all the forms, had her labs, her ultrasound, and then she comes into the room, and I have about two minutes to talk with them before I start the procedure. Um, and I always kind of get a feeling for if … She was really ambivalent. She was clearly undecided. And I said, “You know, you, you seem to be struggling.” She said, well, she really didn’t want to do this, but she already paid her money, and she traveled to get there, and so she might as well just go through with it.

Jim: Mmm.

Dr. Giebink: And I said, “Well, you know, you can reschedule. If, if you’re unsure, reschedule. Come back in when, you’re sure.”

Jim: Take more time to think about it.

Dr. Giebink: Yeah. You know, you don’t have to do this today. She was so afraid she wasn’t going to get her money back. And I said, “You will get your money back.” Um, but she said, “No, I just want to go through with this.” And so, I did. And, uh, I probably said that one too many times, where I said, “You know, you, you, you don’t seem to have your mind made up, and maybe you should just reschedule.” That was kind of what I would say if they seemed to be kind of uncertain. And I guess that wasn’t the, the company line.

Jim: The handlers weren’t happy with that.

Dr. Giebink: Yeah.

Jim: That’s terrible. Uh, you do, in the book, describe that tumultuous environment at Planned Parenthood. Um, just speak to the clinic itself. A lot of lot of people listening have never had that experience, obviously, and maybe they’ve had a friend. But describe what your experience was as a physician working in there, the cleanliness or the lack thereof, the, the orderliness or the lack thereof, with the clinic itself.

Dr. Giebink: It was a small building. It, it really wasn’t all that clean, and in the three years that I was involved with Planned Parenthood there, I never saw anybody from the health department.

Jim: Hmm.

Dr. Giebink: Never. And the, the people that they had counseling were not necessarily professional counselors, but all they had to do was read the script and get them to sign. I, many years later, I went back into the same building, and it had been converted, uh, first into a branch of the Pregnancy Resource Center-

Jim: Which is a pro-life group.

Dr. Giebink: Pro-life group.

Jim: (laughs)

Dr. Giebink: And, but the first time I went into the building, I think I lasted about 20 seconds before I had to run back out, and that was after it had been cleaned up, and I know, um, the Pregnancy Resource Center and the, uh, founder is a good friend of mine, and she was telling me about when, eh, eh, first of all, they bought the building anonymously. Um, a name, actually, Cattle on a 1000 Hills, um-

Jim: (laughs)

Dr. Giebink: They bought the building. And she said when they went there, it was, it was just filthy. And I said, yeah. I mean, I, it just didn’t have that level of cleanliness that a, a private clinic would have.

Jim: Well, let me just add in there, uh, Patti, which is so important. So many states that support abortion do so little to regulate those clinics, that they are, they, they’re just filthy and so far under the standard. And there have been some courageous people that have had to, you know, try to document that on video. And they are the ones that end up in jail. It, it’s so bizarre. And everybody’s claiming to be pro-woman, and yet, they let these women go into these environments that are disgusting, that are so far below even third world standards, in some cases, that it’s terrible. It shows you their support of the ideology over truly the well-being of a woman, and that, that’s plain to see. If you fight in this arena spiritually, you see it as clear as day. And again, you’ve seen both sides of this, and it’s, it’s what’s so amazing about your story. In that context, um, let’s move to your spiritual development. I mean, you’re working at Planned Parenthood. A friend, I believe, invites you to come to a church around the corner from the clinic, if I remember the story correctly.

Dr. Giebink: Um, just mention there was a new pastor at this church, and I wasn’t really looking for a church. Um, I was kind of going down the new age path, searching. You know, people who are in new age and other things are, are searching. And he just kind of off-hand said they have a new pastor. You might like this church. And I had, I didn’t know anybody in the church. Very small, and, but they had a new, young pastor, and I was just captivated. And for the first time in my life, I just felt so drawn to this church and to the Bible. And I, i-i-it’s like they talk about in, in the Bible about the scales coming-

Jim: Hmm-

Dr. Giebink: Falling off your eyes, and so I started reading the Bible and, and starting to understand it, and I, for about a year and a half, I just intensively studied the Bible. I didn’t have a real job at the time, and I just intensively was studying the Bible with direction and understanding it. And at some point, and I, I don’t exactly know when, but it became so clear to me that, that God is the God of life. That’s His character. That’s His heart. There should be no question.

Jim: That’s powerful.

Dr. Giebink: Yeah.

Jim: People can’t miss that. I mean, you’re coming from a, being an abortion doctor, going to this church, reading the scripture deeply, perhaps for the first time-

Dr. Giebink: Mm-hmm-

Jim: And your conclusion, as a very smart person, is God is a God of life.

John: Hmm.

Jim: That’s what, that is what we proclaim. That’s our only-

John: Yeah-

Jim: Beef-

Dr. Giebink: Yeah-

Jim: With the abortion industry (laughs) is that it’s the exact opposite of God’s heart for His creation.

Dr. Giebink: Yeah.

Jim: Then what happened?

Dr. Giebink: Well, that’s all God. I mean, I, I can’t take any credit for any of this journey because I wasn’t, I wasn’t looking. I was searching for something bigger than, you know, what, at the beginning. Another piece of the puzzle that’s so important is that in 2004, I started working with a very solid pro-life Catholic doctor in our small town. She was unapologetically pro-life. And I was still kind of in that, I wasn’t admitting that I had changed, and I … Because basically all my friends and most of my family were pro-choice, and … But just listening to her and her courage … And she gave me strength to start thinking more of, of that. And so, by 2006, which was the first Vote Yes for Life campaign, were really kind of, uh, the first time I really stepped out and said, you know, I’ve, I’ve changed. So that’s from 2001 to 2006. You know, that’s five years of gradual, painful, uh, realization.

Jim: Yeah, and that’s, you know, that’s the sanctification process-

Dr. Giebink: Yeah-

Jim: That’s what happens.

Dr. Giebink: Yeah.

Jim: And that’s what’s so wonderful about the Lord removing the scales from our eyes, right?

Dr. Giebink: Yeah.

Jim: And then we begin to see what is true.

Dr. Giebink: Yeah.

Jim: That He is a God of life.

Dr. Giebink: Yeah.

Jim: You know, as you said. And that’s what’s so beautiful. You, you found out that a pro-life woman … I think she was a nun, had been praying for you for 10 years. I love this aspect of your story because it shows that the prayers of the righteous availeth much, right? (laughs) And so this is awesome that people were praying for you, by name-

Dr. Giebink: Mm-hmm-

Jim: They knew what was-

Dr. Giebink: Mm-hmm-

Jim: Taking place, but they still took the time to … And really, uh, fair definition, to love you enough to pray for you.

Dr. Giebink: Mm-hmm. She still prays for me.

Jim: (laughs) That is good.

Dr. Giebink: She’s 90 … She’ll be 91 this month.

John: Huh. And you had never met her-

Dr. Giebink: I had never met her-

John: During that process.

Dr. Giebink: Never. No. She wrote me a letter, uh, in December 2006, and I was stunned. And she said, this was now 10 years that she had been praying for me, based on an article in the local newspaper, and she saw my name, and, and what caught her attention was I said something, “Well, it wasn’t my goal to do a, abortions full-time.” And she hung on that statement and started praying for me and then wrote me a letter when, through the Vote Yes for Life campaign, I actually ended up doing a TV commercial where basically I said who I was and what I used to do and that I was asking them to Vote Yes for Life on this-

Jim: Ballot initiative.

Dr. Giebink: Ballot initiative. And so, she saw that, which was confirmation of her, 10 years. And then she, she took the initiative to write me a letter. Didn’t have the right address. It went to the wrong clinic. But it found me.

John: Hmm.

Dr. Giebink: And I was just flabbergasted. I, I was just stunned.

Jim: Mmm. Yeah. And, and it’s a beautiful story of the things we can do. Um, and, you know, also the things we should not do. In that regard, when you look at the battle, and you go, we, we see this as a spiritual battle-

Dr. Giebink: Mm-hmm-

Jim: You know, uh, we’re all created in God’s image. Even those that are on the abortion side are created in God’s image, and we need to respect that, certainly, as believers in Christ. So, what are the things that you’ve learned, Patti, about the battle, and especially being in both camps, as you have been? What are the lessons that you can share with us and ways to be effective in communicating God’s truth, that He loves them, He cares for them, but that He is a God of life? I love that description. What have you learned, from both perspectives?

Dr. Giebink: Um, when I was doing abortions, and there would be people protesting on the sidewalk as I would be driving in, uh, they never really screamed at me or anything, but it, it never made me reconsider what I was doing. Um, and I, the more I think about it, we’re not going to make progress if we just stand on opposite sides of the street calling each other names.

Jim: Right.

Dr. Giebink: And so really the reason I wrote the book was I want both sides to see the other side. I, I want people to be, I want to challenge their thinking. Because I, I hear things that aren’t quite true on both sides.

Jim: Hmm.

Dr. Giebink: So, I really want, want people to, to have a little more understanding.

Jim: In that regard, because, again, uh, I want people to walk away with something in their hands, that specificity of what to do, what is that, or the two or three things that actually do make a difference?

Dr. Giebink: Words are important. I think of the women who have been hurt by abortion, and, and, you know, they don’t come up to you and say, “You know, I’ve been hurt by abortion.” Well, now, they come up to me because I think they feel like I’m safe. But I think of the churches, and nobody wants to add pain to women and people who’ve been hurt by abortion. But in churches, oftentimes, the, the things that the pastors say, or the other very well-meaning people are very hurtful, and I think we need to make our churches a safe place for all sinners. I think of the women who’ve had an abortion, could be 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago … Um, all families, I believe, have been affected by abortion. They just don’t know it.

John: Mm-hmm-

Dr. Giebink: It might have been a grandmother who might’ve had an abortion pre-Roe v. Wade or post-Roe v. Wade. Um, I, I just really believe that everybody has been affected.

Jim: Sure. Uh, Patti, right at the end here, uh, I’m mindful, as we always are, John, that people listening, women particularly, but men, too, where abortion has impacted them directly, a woman made that choice, she may have never shared that with anybody-

Dr. Giebink: Mm-hmm-

Jim: And she’s in a church now, and she’s given her life to the Lord.

Dr. Giebink: Mm-hmm-

Jim: And that was a decision that may have been made 10 years ago, 20 years ago. Who knows? Forty years ago. And she still carries that burden. And obviously, uh, as a doctor, but also as a Christian woman, what would you say to her now?

Dr. Giebink: Tell someone. Speak up. Um, confront your pastor. Not in front of the whole church. You know, pull them aside and say, you know, I, I, I, I respect that, that you’re pro-life and everything, but I’ve been hurt by abortion. I’m sure there’s other people. And we need to find a different language. We need to find compassion. Um, we are all sinners. Um, if a pastor of a church doesn’t hear now and then from somebody in his church who’s been hurt by abortion, then that pastor should wonder, why aren’t people speaking up? How can I be a safe place? Maybe you just need to announce that, you know, that you’re open to meeting with people who have been hurt by abortion. You’re not, you’re not judgmental, and you want to lead them to a path of healing or provide resources. And I remember a friend of mine said something about making our neighborhoods safe. You know, do you know your neighbor? Do you have a young woman who might be in a crisis? Are, are we reaching out to them, or are we just in our own little world where we’re surrounded by other people that look and act like us? I quoted Moshe Dayan at a conference I did a couple weeks ago, and he was a freedom fighter for Israel, and he said, “If we want to make peace, we don’t talk to our friends. We have to talk to our enemies.”

John: Hmm.

Dr. Giebink: So, we have to reach out in some way, even if it’s not about this topic. Um, for me, I have to force myself. I have to think, okay, how, how can I reach out? Talk about the weather. Talk about something. And so, for, for my family, I just try and love ’em where they are. Love ’em where they are, and, and hope that they will see the change in me and eventually ask, you know, or read the book.

Jim: (laughs) That’s a good starting point. Patti, this has been great. I’m reminded of that wonderful scripture, Romans 2:4, uh, “Don’t you know it’s God’s kindness that leads one to repentance.”

Dr. Giebink: Yeah.

Jim: And that pulses through me when I’m engaging with people from Planned Parenthood or the abortion industry or NARAL. For that matter, the LGBTQ community, as well.

Dr. Giebink: Yeah.

Jim: Um, that’s how they’re going to be attracted to the gospel. That’s what the Lord does. And, uh, just knowing that He cares for every person again and that nobody’s beyond His reach. That’s what I hear you saying loud and clear-

Dr. Giebink: Yes-

Jim: And we need to pray for those people. And I want to congratulate you again, for, uh, you know, again, you had to have an open heart. You’re in the, the mire of the battle when you were working for Planned Parenthood. You could’ve easily kept the blinders on. But something in your heart kept you moving in a direction toward God’s heart-

Dr. Giebink: Mm-hmm-

Jim: And I’m very intrigued by that because that is the great part of the journey for everyone-

Dr. Giebink: Hmm.

Jim: Who sees the truth and embraces God’s love and moves forward in that regard.

John: And that’s how, Jim, you concluded this conversation with Dr. Patti Giebink. It rightfully is a Best of 2021 episode on Focus on the Family. And we do recommend you follow up on this very important topic. Get a copy of Dr. Giebink’s book Unexpected Choice: An Abortion Doctor’s Journey to Pro-Life.

Jim: John, let me turn to the listener, and I hope Patti’s story has encouraged you. God is working to change hearts. That’s what he does, and he can use you to help women who are considering abortion. We often mentioned this statistic. About 60 percent of abortion minded women will choose life once they see their baby through that ultrasound. So please join us in ministry as we help women in crisis. Our Option Ultrasound program equips pregnancy resource clinics around the country, and we estimate a gift of $60 can save a baby’s life.

John: It’s pretty incredible, and we invite you to join the support team for Option Ultrasound. Give a gift of $60 and as our way of saying thank you we’ll send a copy of Patti’s book Unexpected Choice. Call us today to donate and get that book. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459. Or you can learn more at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: And John, I’ll remind listeners about our matching gift opportunity here at the end of the year. Some generous friends of Focus have committed to match your donation dollar for dollar. And we rely on your partnership to continue reaching out to women in crisis and families who are hurting. So please join us in ministry and be generous when you give to Focus on the Family today.

John: Again, you can donate by calling 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY or online at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And I do hope you’ll make plans to join us next time as we take a look at spiritual warfare in your marriage.

Preview:

Noreen Muehlhoff: The scriptures begin with a marriage. It’s Adam and Eve. It’s an important institution. It reflects the image of God himself. And so, wouldn’t it make sense if Satan wants to attack God, that he would attack the thing that reflects his image?

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