Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Preview

Jay Laffoon: And if you understand coming into it what the so-called purpose of this evening is-

Jim Daly: Yeah, that’s good.

Jay: … it becomes a lot easier to put the phone down, to focus on your spouse, and to really make a concerted effort to meet them where they’re at.

End of Preview

John Fuller: That’s Jay Laffoon, and he and his wife Laura join us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. They’re gonna be talking about being intentional in dating your spouse. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.

Jim: John, I’m looking forward to the conversation today. You know, often, we get wrapped up in the busyness of life. I’m guilty of that. And we’ll go weeks without doing a date night. We have a little Mexican restaurant that we like to go to-

John: Nice.

Jim: … and enjoy the patio, but, uh, you know, now there’s snow out there, so I gotta come up with something new.

John: (laughs)

Jim: Um, but I’m looking forward to, uh, making this as easy as it can be made for you-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … because our guests have this wonderful book, Ultimate Date Night: 52 Amazing Dates for Busy Couples. So, all you need to do is pick this up (laughing)-

Jay: (laughs)

Jim: … and, like, go through it.

John: (laughs)

Jim: Date night one, date night two-

Laura: (laughs)

John: There you go.

Jim: … it’s that easy. So, you don’t have any excuses now.

John: Well, especially since we’re getting an executive summary of the book-

Jim: (laughs)

Jay: (laughs)

Laura: (laughs)

John: … from the authors.

Jim: (laughs)

Laura: (laughs)

John: So, uh, the next 20, 25 minutes are gonna be the condensation of this book, but you’re gonna want it because we’re not gonna cover all 52 date ideas.

Jim: That’s true.

John: I’m really excited, Jim, ’cause, uh, even to-

Jim: Yeah, are you really excited?

John: Oh, I am because-

Jim: Okay.

John: … tonight is a date night.

Jim: Oh.

John: So I’m gon- I’m gonna walk away with something-

Jim: That’s fantastic.

John: … uh, to apply tonight.

Jim: I’m taking the boys to a basketball game, so-

John: That doesn’t-

Jim: … that won’t happen. Can’t back out of that now.

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: (laughs)

Jim: Jean didn’t want to go.

John: Yeah.

Jim: I was gonna check it off as a date night-

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: … unless she’s going to take a warm bath at home. Then, it might count.

John: Yeah. Yeah, there, there you go.

Jim: It’s a different date night. Right?

John: Well, the Laffoons have been here before. They’re, uh, kind of edutainers. They, they, they love to educate through entertainment, and they are, yeah, just so fun to listen to, and so I know you’re going to lean in and enjoy this conversation today.

Jim: Jay, Laura, welcome back.

Jay: Great to be here.

Laura Laffoon: Good to be here.

Jay: Honored to be here.

Jim: It’s fun to have you. All right, Laura, you’re representing all women today.

Laura: (laughs) Okay.

Jim: You’re at the table with three men and-

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: It’s three to one, which Laura says, “Okay, that, that’s fair.”

John: Yeah.

Laura: That’s right.

John: I can still win.

Laura: I can handle it.

Jim: (laughs)

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: But why are you two so passionate about married couples doing date nights? What’s the benefit?

Laura: You know, I think we’re s- w- we’re so passionate about it because it’s just something that we’ve naturally done. We’ve always enjoyed being together. There’s not any time that I can remember that we were, like, “Uh, get out of my face,” you know?

Jim: (laughs)

Laura: And that we didn’t like each other. That we, we have a lot of similar hobbies, and so, for us, it’s never been a big deal to find stuff to do together. Um, we’re always finding new stuff. But one of the things that we do as a part of our ministry is called The Ultimate Date Night, and we travel across the country to churches and communities and do a 90-minute show. And we would get emails, after email, after email, that would say, “Hey, thanks for that date night. But what do we do now?”

Jim: (laughs)

John: Hmm.

Laura: “What else can you tell us to go do on a date?” And we we’re like, “Why don’t we just write a book? Let’s just write a book and make it simple for people.” Because we live in a culture where everybody does just wanna pick up- “Let me just pick up, let me open the app”-

Jim: “Yeah, tell me what to do.”

Laura: “Let me pick up the book, let me, tell me what to do.” And so that really is…for us, it wasn’t something that we had to work hard at, but we realize the more we do marriage ministry that this is something people really need w- help with.

Jim: Yeah.

Jay: And full, full disclosure, we have not done every one of these dates. Some of these dates are people that we know, and we know are creative, and we’ve said, “Hey, tell us a couple of the dates that you’ve been on that you guys got creative with.” So-

Jim: Uh, well, get on the block here, Jay. Come on.

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: (laughs)

Jim: Step up the pace, buddy.

John: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs) Come on. (laughs) Well, that’s good.

Jay: Yeah.

Jim: And i- it’s like “Best of” practices.

Jay: Yes.

Jim: I, I’ll go to you, Laura. Once again, what are some examples of date nights? Just give us a flavor of some things that we can do-

Laura: Okay, well, I’m gonna give you my-

Jim: … for those that want the Cliff Notes.

Laura: I’m gonna give you my favorite, and it’s a free date night. So that’s … we, in the, in the-

Jim: Even better.

Laura: Exactly. In the book, we tried to do some that are free, some that are a little bit of cost, some that might cost a little more. And we try, and in the book, we give you a key. If that’s the-

Jim: Oh, that’s good.

Laura: … a legend, a “here’s what this means.” And so-

Jim: Yeah, a dollar sign, no dollar sign-

Laura: Exactly.

Jim: … three dollar sign?

Laura: One of my favorites is free, and this actually came from a friend of ours. Um, they are a married couple that have five children, um, all very young, and so date nights were very difficult for them to … We, you have to get a babysitter. That’s going to cost.

Jim: Oh, yeah.

Laura: So, we have to go, “Well, if we go to dinner-

Jay: Yeah, babysitter for five kids (laughs).

Laura: .. that’s going to cost.

Jim: Oh.

Laura: And so what they would do is they put all the kids to bed. And he has a pickup truck. They would back the pickup truck out into the driveway. They’d put two camp chairs in the back of the pickup truck. They’d turn on their music, and they would sit and watch the stars and have conversation. And they said they could sit and do that for hours. I’m like, “What a great idea.” We do that, again, without even thinking, especially coming from Michigan. In the middle of summer, we sit all on our patio and just talk for hours, and it’s a great date. Doesn’t cost.

Jim: Yeah, and everything we’re going to point to is all the good things you can do. But I gotta ask Jay this question. Come on, give me, give me a date night gone wrong.

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: A date night gone … Oh, I c- I-

Laura: (laughs) I can give-

Jay: Oh, no.

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: This is what I want because this is where we really live.

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: (laughs) Yes. So, um, Laura is turning 40.

Laura: Oh, okay.

Jay: Not, not anytime soon here-

John: Oh.

Jay: … but, uh, a while back.

Laura: This is a while back. Let’s be clear.

Jay: She’s turning 40. And I’m like, “Ah, we’ve got this spa that is 20 minutes from our house.” I said, “Let’s get” … I thought to myself, “I’m gonna get her a couples massage because that, wouldn’t that just be so much fun?” Now, I’m picturing we’re laying side by side-

Jim: Yeah, talking.

Jay: Talking d- well … th- uh, forgetting also that my wife grew up in the South and lives in a box.

Jim: (laughs)

Jay: And unless you’re invited in that box, she does not want to be touched. In other words, she’s not a big huggy person.

Jim: Okay. Right.

Jay: And (laughs) we pull up to the spa. She’s like, “What are we doing?”

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: I said, “We’re getting a couple’s massage.”

Jim: (laughs)

Jay: “For my birthday?” I said, “Yeah.” I said, “I know it was very expensive, but you know, I, I, I just thought it’d be great.” She’s like, “You know I don’t like to be touched.”

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: Ugh.

Laura: (laughs) right. “You’re getting me a massage?”

Jay: And right then-

Laura: “Seriously?”

Jay: … I’m just like, “Oh my goodness.”

Jim: No, I’m with you. Jean’s thing is just being in the same room if we were to do that. She’s like, “I don’t … I want to sleep. I want to, you know?”

Laura: Yeah, uh.

Jim: And that’s what happened.

Laura: Uh.

Jay: So, I’m thinking couples massage. We get in there. We’re sit … we’ve got our robes on, and this lovely young lady comes in and says, “Laura, I’ll take you.” And so I’m like, “Well, what, uh …” And then Sven walks in.

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: And I mean, he’s literally 6’2″, built like-

Jim: Best massage of your life.

Jay: No, no, no.

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Jay: It was painful.

Jim: Yeah, that’s what I mean.

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: He worked out all the kinks.

Jay: And I, and I didn’t like it. I get out, I’m going … I said to Laura, “I’m never doing that again.” She came out, and she goes, “That was wonderful.”

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: Oh. Oh, well, that’s good.

Jay: So, it, it had elements of bad and-

Laura: So, it was good.

Jay: … good, but it wa-

Jim: Yeah, but that sounds like a little trick on you, then.

Laura: Yeah. (laughs)

Jay: Yeah, so that’s-

Jim: You never know what the Lord is up to there.

Laura: But yeah, we pulled into that-

Jay: You never know what your wife is up to. That’s … (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Laura: We pulled into that parking lot, and I’m like, “We’re doing what?”

Jim: Yes.

Laura: “For my birthday? Seriously-

Jim: Yeah.

Laura: … you could have just taken t- me to a mall and given me a credit card, and that would’ve been fine.”

Jay: (laughs)

Jim: Yeah, I’m gonna, I’m gonna let you redeem yourself, Jay, because you also had one in there about snuggling in front of a fire, and th- th- that being the date night. Describe that one. That sounded like a home run.

Jay: You know, sometimes the simplest things speak the most. My wife’s love language is quality time, and so anytime … uh, especially when we had kids … if I could arrange for the kids to be either at a friend’s house or grandma and grandpa’s house, and it’s just the two of us, um, you know, we would snuggle in front of the fire. Now, uh, again, true confession: we do not have a real fireplace.

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: Okay.

Jay: But we have a, a thing that resembles a fire.

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: And I also know that on Netflix, you can get a fire on your TV.

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: And it even crackles.

Jay: And it even crackles.

Laura: It does (laughs).

Jay: But just, you know, um, sitting there with no intention other than to be with her and to, you know, talk about what she wants to talk about-

Laura: And sometimes we would do puzzles or play, uh, card games. I mean, it doesn’t have to be like you just sit and snuggle.

Jay: And snuggle.

Jim: (laughs)

Laura: As we just said, I don’t like to be touched, but-

Jay: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Laura: … that’s okay (laughs).

Jay: But, you know, it’s, it’s figuring out what your spouse desires.

Jim: Huh.

Jay: And it’s not need, it’s desire. And, and b- I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the fact that she desires to have quality time with me. It’s not a, an evil desire. So, what does she desire? So, let’s make that happen.

Jim: Yeah.

Jay: And that’s what these dates are about.

Jim: That’s good.

Jay: I, I’ll never forget. We’re doing a date night in Ohio, rural Ohio, ru- and we were in a cafétorium. So, it was their cafeteria and auditorium all in one.

Jim: Okay, yes.

Jay: Café-gym-atorium, so it was also their gym.

Jim: (laughs) Café-gym-atorium.

Jay: And there was this old couple. They were sitting under a can light, so I, I watched them the whole time. They had to be in their 80s, and they were just embracing each other. And after, they came to buy some books, and they said, “Young man.” I said, “Yes?” “You let, need to let all these young people know what you did to get your spouse is what you need to do to keep your spouse.”

John: Hmm.

Jim: Oh, that’s good.

Jay: Hu- that, that, is gold. You know? And so that’s the dating thing. You dated. You spent money. You did things together.

Jim: You talked.

Jay: Yes.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: (laughs) That’s what that says.

Jay: That’s a big one.

Jim: “You used to talk to me a lot more when we were dating.”

Laura: Exactly.

Jim: Has anybody ever heard that?

Jay: Oh, yeah.

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: Let me ask this again for younger couples who might be captive to screens. I mean, how many restaurants that Jean and I have gone to-

Laura: Mm-hmm.

John: Mm.

Jim: And we’re really good about putting phones away when we’re having dinner. If it’s at home, same thing. If we’re at a restaurant, same thing. But you look around the restaurant, I mean, families of 3,4,5, they’re all looking at their screens.

Laura: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Nobody’s talking.

Jay: Right.

Jim: And, uh, so speak to that need to put that away.

Jay: It’s funny because-

Jim: That’s not a date night.

Jay: No, it’s not.

Jim: (laughs)

Jay: Um, I believe it was, uh … I can’t remember who did the study, but they said the average American couple spends four minutes a day alone together.

John: Hmm.

Jay: And they qualified that by saying, “No screens.” So, alone means no screens. Four minutes a day.

John: Wow.

Jay: That’s frightening because it, it just … Communication is so hard to begin with, and when you’re not spending any time doing it, it complicates matters.

Jim: Right.

John: Mm. So, there are a couple of things in the book I’d like to ask about because I g- I get that, and I think we’re pretty good about that. But purpose, y- you mentioned that dates should have purpose, which seems kind of counter to just hanging out and serving my spouse. So, how do I inject some purpose into a date where I’m trying to give them what they’re desiring, to Jay’s point?

Laura: Well, I think that is what the purpose is.

John: Okay.

Laura: The purpose of whatever the date is … Well, first of all, when we first, um, started f- f- floating ideas out there to people, you know, when they would email and w- I’d go, “Well, what about if you do this, or do this,” the response, 99% of the time, was, “But I don’t like to do that.” “I don’t like to, I don’t like to go for walks. I don’t like to go for bike rides.” That would be Jay. I would love to go for a bike ride. He … well, you know, the purpose is to just be together. So often, and I think Jim said this in the beginning, we are so busy-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Laura: … that we neglect connecting. We neglect that time because we think, you know, “When the kids are grown, and our jobs have settled in, and blah, then we’ll still be there.” If you haven’t built into this relationship, you’re not still going to be there-

Jim: Yeah.

Laura: … 15 years down the road, you know, when the kids are gone.

Jim: Let me, let me ask you this because y- temperaments are so critical.

Jay: (laughs)

Jim: You know, we tend to marry people that are opposite. Not everybody. I don’t mean to overgeneralize, but, but let me just overgeneralize. Uh, you know, Jean and I, I’m an extrovert. She’s introvert. She loves communication, deep communication. She’s the person that walks into a big room, and she’d like to be with three people and really get to know them. That is like, “Oh, my goodness. How could you do that?”

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: I want to say hi to, you know, all 150 people, and I really don’t kn- want to know much about you-

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: (laughs)

Jim: … (laughs) other than this is fun. “Isn’t it fun to be here?” Right? “Good to see you. Bye.” “Okay,” you know? So, that’s just the illustration, and it is, it’s extreme. But when you’re in this context of a date night, you know, you do have people that have bents. You know, you have people that are deep, inward thinkers that are numbers people. They’re not given to outward communication. They’re trying to figure out what you’re thinking. So, how do you, as a couple, improve that communication with that goal in mind with someone who is not that talkative and might be more introverted, husband or wife? Um, h- h- how do you recognize that because you’re trying to help them out of a hole in the communication?

Laura: Right. Right.

Jay: That’s a great question. And I think one of the things that we’ve always come back to is, uh, because Laura loves to shop. And, um, early in our marriage, I would literally go shop-

Laura: Let’s be clear- I don’t have to buy.

Jim: (laughs)

Laura: I just like to shop.

Jim: Well, that’s even worse.

Jay: No, no. Sh-

Laura: I like to walk around and look.

Jay: She doesn’t “have” to buy.

Jim: Right.

Laura: I like to look.

Jim: Why would you be shopping without the goal of buying?

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: But I detested it.

Jim: Ah.

Jay: I, I, I couldn’t stand it.

Jim: I’m with ya.

Jay: And so, I would make life miserable on those Saturdays we would go to the mall.

Jim: (laughs)

Jay: And s- finally, someone said to me, “Jay, why are you doing this because it’s important to Laura? This is something she enjoys. Why would you do that?” And I began to change slowly to see the joy that she found in the way that she was wired. And so, do I enjoy shopping? No, but I enjoy watching her enjoy that. And, um, you know, as far as helping someone change their temperament, I don’t know that we can.

John: Hmm.

Jim: Well, you can’t change them, but it’s how to encourage them-

Laura: Encourage them.

Jim: … to come out of that shell-

Laura: Mm-hmm.

Jay: Well, to just-

Jim: … if I could say it that way.

Jay: Uh, again, true confession: I’m an introvert.

Jim: Okay.

Jay: And, uh, we were talking before the show about our little neighborhood parties.

Jim: Yes.

Jay: I can’t stand them.

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Jay: I’m like, I’m like, “Laura, don’t make me go. Please-

Jim: Yeah, please, please.

Jay: … please, just let me stay home and watch football.” Um, but this last one we had, I got in the car when we were done, and I said, “That was really fun.”

Jim: Hmm.

Jay: “Thanks for making me go.”

Jim: Yeah.

Jay: And it was a … you know, so sometimes, we do these things to stretch our spouse a little out of their comfort zone. And wh- when we do that, and we do that gently, because she did it very gently, but she’s like, “Jay, these are our neighbors. We got to love them. We’ve got to, you know, show them Jesus because a lot of them don’t know Jesus.” Um-

Jim: (laughs) I love your attitude. That’s great. “Okay, got to show them Jesus.

Jay: Got to show them Jesus.

Jim: “Okay, Laura, let’s go.”

Jay: (laughs) Yeah.

Laura: It’s like taking your kids to church on Sunday morning when they’ve been screaming and yelling. “We’re gonna go learn about the love of Jesus. Get in the car.”

Jim: (laughs) Yeah. That’s right. Argue all the way to church. That’s for sure.

Laura: (laughs)

John: Well, I don’t know how long you’ve been married, but if you’re married, you can probably relate to some of what we’re talking about today with Jay and Laura Laffoon. Uh, get a copy of this, uh, terrific little resource that they have, uh, Ultimate Date Night: 52 Amazing Dates for Busy Couples. Uh, you’re gonna find all sorts of great ideas here and some underlying principles to help grow as a couple. And we have copies of the book here. The details are at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast, or give us a call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.

Jim: You know, we have a growing number of listeners, which is great, that have younger children in the home, and that, for Jean and I, just out of our own experience with Trent and Troy when they were younger, it was hard to do a date night. I mean, you said earlier the babysitter thing and all that. Speak specifically to that phase in life.

John: Hm.

Jim: And, you know, sometimes we can kick ourselves that we’re, “Okay, we haven’t done date night in two weeks, three weeks,” whatever it might be, and then you load guilt on top of a really busy schedule. That’s not the goal here. Um, the goal is to just get into a rhythm that you can get out and do this because it’s really healthy for you.

Laura: Yes, it is, and, um, we highly recommend grandparents. Um, as grandparents, we highly recommend grandparents.

John: (laughs)

Laura: Um, but we also encourage couples, um, especially if you’re involved in a church, or maybe you’re involved in a small group with couples who are in the same walk of life, you can share childcare.

Jim: Yeah.

Laura: And what I mean is Jay and I are going to go out this weekend, and, “Hey, can you guys take our kids Friday night?”

Jim: Yeah, that’s great.

John: Mm-hmm.

Laura: “And then, we’ll take your kids next Friday night.” Sharing that responsibility, sharing that … Then you give everybody a chance to have a date night. It doesn’t cost you anything. Um, it just, other than you have somebody else’s kids in your home and, you know-

Jay: But sometimes, that can be a good thing because it keeps your kids entertained.

Laura: Mm-hmm. But it is important in that young, married, young kids, because the kids demand so much of your time, and your jobs demand your time, and just life demands so much of time, to have that hour. Again, that’s why we have so many in the book of free dates, things that you can do that don’t cost a lot of money so that if you do need to spend the money on childcare, you can spend the money on childcare and then just go for a walk. You know?

Jim: I could just see the husband (laughs)-

Jay: (laughs)

Jim: … looking through the book, going, with a little highlighter-

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: … “This one-

Laura: (laughs) This one’s free.

Jim: … page four, this one,” all the free dates (laughs).

John: (laughs)

Jim: Don’t do that. Occasionally, spend some money.

Laura: (laughs)

John: Well, related to that, there are special occasions.

Laura: Absolutely.

John: And it feels like there’s a lot of stress and pressure on these special occasions. In fact, we (laughs), we went to a marriage getaway one time, and we had one of the worst fights ever-

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

John: … in our marriage. It was like … I think it was because of the expectations-

Laura: Mm-hmm

John: … and the stress of young kids in the home. So, talk a little bit about how we can kind of let go of those expectations and maybe appropriately celebrate the big ones.

Laura: Well, I think there are times. I mean, we do our Celebrate Your Marriage conference, and we have people who come to celebrate their 10th, 15th, 25th wedding anniversary. Um, it’s a big deal, um, but I think that there are times when you go, “You know what? This is something to celebrate.” 40 years is something to celebrate.

John: Mm-hmm.

Laura: But let’s try and celebrate it in a little more calmer-

Jay: (laughs) Well, y-

Jim: Lower key.

Laura: Lower-

Jay: … I’m sure you guys are good friends with Gary Thomas, the author.

John: Yeah. Oh, yes.

Jim: Oh, yeah.

John: Yeah.

Jay: A good friend of ours, and one of my favorite quotes from Gary is, “The problem with marriage is we expect too much from it.”

John: Hmm.

Jim: Yeah, that’s fair.

Jay: And, and I think that sometimes we build all these expectations up, and now it … um, you know, Laura did not marry Jesus Junior. I mean, I am a human being with flaws, and-

Jim: But, you’re so close.

Jay: Exactly.

Laura: (laughs).

Jay: Oh (laughs). You know, but and-

Laura: Laura’s gonna be quiet right now. (laughs).

Jim: And a- and all the wives went, “What?”

Jay: Yeah. But, so, you’re going to disappoint. You’re going to have those moments where our expectations are unmet, but as loving couples, we need to nurture and encourage each other during those times that, “You know, this wasn’t quite what we expected. But let’s look at the good things that came out of that.”

Laura: But I do think there’s also times for anticipation.

Jay: Yeah.

Laura: When you do have a big, you know, 10, 15, 20, 25-

Jim: (laughs)

Laura: … anticipating those, you know, not the day before, but thinking about it as it’s coming up. And what can you do that would be fun, but-

Jim: Yeah.

Laura: … try and eliminate the stress.

Jim: Let’s, let’s also educate young couples. When your wife says, “I don’t need anything. I don’t want anything.”

John: (laughs)

Jim: Can you believe I took the bait?

John: Yeah (laughs).

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: Oh, I think I’m still paying for that.

John: This happened to you, didn’t it?

Jim: You know, it was like the fourth or fi- I don’t know. It was some early anniversary.

Jay: The problem is, for us men, if we say, “I don’t need anything,” guess what?

John: We mean it.

Jay: We don’t need anything.

Jim: Yeah.

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: But yeah, that’s not what she’s saying.

Jay: No, not at all.

Jay: (laughs)

Laura: We’re trying to alleviate-

Jim: Don’t take the bait.

Laura: … your g- g- guilt and stress, but think of something. Just think of something.

Jim: (laughs) Only yet to-

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: … add more to the guilt that-

John: This, this-

Jim: … “You thought I didn’t want anything?”

John: This is a trap (laughs).

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: “Who said that?”

John: (laughs)

Jim: You know, one, uh, one of the things too, um, you know, oftentimes, a date night can turn into a business meeting.

John: Uh-huh.

Jay: Ah.

Jim: And we got to be really careful. We’re talking a lot about what types of date nights to have through your great book, Ultimate Date Night: 52 Amazing Dates for Busy Couples. Uh, now let’s talk about the content of the date night. You don’t talk budget. You don’t talk about problem with the kids.

Laura: Yep.

Jim: You don’t talk about the in-laws and where you’re going to go for Thanksgiving or Christmas. This is time to be more intimate.

Laura: Right.

Jay: Well, and this is why some of these are so good because, um, you’re so active in the date that we’ve got that you can’t really be talking. You know, for example, one of my favorites is called the Treasure Hunt. And most people don’t know there’s a thing called geocaching, which you can download an app on your, on your phone, and you can go out and find these little treasures. Um, well, while you’re doing that, you’re gonna have some conversation, but you’re not gonna be conversating about the kids or about business. Another one where you’re probably not gonna be talking about kids is when you go ax throwing together. You know?

Jim: (laughs) Haven’t tried that one.

Jay: Yeah, that’s n-

Jim: You know, if you’re not on good terms in that moment-

John: Yes (laughs).

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: (laughs)

Jim: … I don’t think that would be a good one.

Laura: (laughs)

John: (laughs) It requires great trust.

Jim: I’m so sorry, honey. It slipped.

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: That’s right. But, um, you know, I mean, there, there’s certain activities that are just going to, uh, lend themselves to not having conversations.

John: Yeah, there, I want to put a caveat even on that because there was a time when we were having a date, and Dena was talking about the kids, and I’m like, “No, no, no, l- I don’t want to talk about the kids right now.” And she looked at me, and she said, “That’s what’s on my heart right now.”

Jim: Mm.

John: And I realized, “Okay, I can’t be, like, black and white about this.”

Laura: Right.

John: If that’s really where she’s at, I’m not going to, we’re not going to score points by saying, “No, no, no.” See, we have to be sensitive, don’t we?

Jim: Yes.

Laura: That’s very true. Um, but also, we’re, we’re big proponents of encouraging couples to spend 15 minutes every day in uninterrupted conversation. So, kids are in bed. Before the kids wake up, whenever it is, just look at each other eyeball to eyeball and have con- And that’s where those conversations happen. That’s where you plan the next Christmas, the vacation. You talk about the kids, what’s going on. Then, when you go on your date nights, that need has already been met.

John: Mm-hmm.

Laura: And if you can build that habit, then when you go on a date, you’re, you can be more intentional about being with each other and talking about your marriage and those types of happenings.

Jim: Yeah. And that’s a good reminder. The other thing you can fall into is that feeling like it’s, this is a, a box you check.

Laura: Yes.

Jim: You know? And I think, I think maybe men would fall into that trap a little bit more. “Okay, I’m doing it. What more do you want from me?”

Laura: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Jay: Dinner and a movie, dinner and a movie, dinner and a movie.

Jim: Yeah, boom. Check the box. “Wasn’t that a good movie? Did you like the movie?” Good, I’ve been intimate now-

Laura: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … emotionally (laughs). I mean, seriously.

John: Hmm.

Jay: Right.

John: Yeah.

Jim: You, you know, and so you have to, like, have the, not the letter of the law about date night but the heart and the spirit of it.

Laura: Mm-hmm.

John: Yeah.

Jim: You gotta aim for that. And some-

Laura: Right.

Jim: Again, some people will struggle with that just naturally. It’s not because they’re bad people.

Jay: Right.

Laura: Right.

Jim: It’s just, my head’s not there. How do you, how do you get your head there and get your head in the game?

Jay: Right. I think y- y- you have to really take a conscious look at what is the purpose of this date. We didn’t do this specifically, but we’ve kind of … there’s two different types of dates. There’s romantic dates, and there’s adventure dates. And some are more romantic, some are less romantic, some are more adventuresome, some are less adventuresome. But if you go into there knowing, you know, we love to whitewater raft. Well, that’s not going to be a romantic date. You know, that’s going to be an adventure date, but we both love it, so let’s go do it. Um, as opposed to, we also like fine dining. That’s going to be a romantic date. And if you understand coming into it what the so-called purpose of the, of this evening is-

Jim: Yeah, that’s good.

Jay: … it becomes a lot easier to put the phone down, to focus on your spouse, and to really make a concerted effort to meet them where they’re at.

Jim: So, really, again, what you’re talking about is setting expectations. That’s what that is-

Jay: Yep.

Jim: … as to what the date night is about. And do that probably a little bit gently in some cases, and other times, pretty forthrightly. You know, what, what’s on for tonight.

Jay: Right.

Jim: What are we trying to aim at?

Laura: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I mean, that, and again, with black and white thinkers, that’s really helpful. They actually like that. My wife’s a biochemistry person. She always wants me to say chemistry. Isn’t that funny right there?

John: (laughs)

Jim: She took biology classes. But no, it’s not biochemistry. It’s chemistry. “Okay, sorry.” She’s a chemistry person. But, I mean, that, that is a black and white thinker. You know? S- ye- y- she does measurements very carefully making pancakes, all that kind of thing. And I need to be more explicit about these things-

Jay: Yeah.

John: Right.

Jim: … be plain-spoken.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And that helps her. Sometimes, I don’t want to be. I want a more elusive-

John: (laughs)

Jim: … kind of idea.

Laura: You’ve got to be spontaneous.

Jim: Oh, my goodness.

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: That’s the problem, that she doesn’t manage spontaneity, and I don’t manage straightforwardness (laughs).

Laura: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know? So, it’s just one of the things that we-

Jay: I don’t think that’s uncommon. I think that’s-

Jim: I know.

Jay: I, I think that’s a lot of people because I want a plan.

Jim: Yeah.

Jay: I mean, I, I want a plan, and, and I don’t want to deviate from the plan. Whereas Laura is like-

Laura: “Whatever.”

Jay: … “Oh, whatever.” Yeah, exactly.

Jim: You know, one of the k-

Laura: “Let’s just go.”

Jim: Yeah, I like that. One of the key things in, in these moments … And again, this is a great attribute of my wife, Jean. She, she loves a spiritual element. We’ve talked pretty much the whole time. Where is God in all this, and how do we …. as Christians, how do we honor Him and invite Him into this in a way that, you know, it, it makes sense? It’s not concocted. It’s real.

Jay: Every good and pleasing gift comes from the Lord. And I think when we realize that our spouse is that good and pleasing gift, and we’re, we’re honored to be able to be with them … One of the things that we’ve tried to do with most of the dates is to have a … because I’m a preacher at heart according to my wife … is to have a spiritual tone to it. You know, what is … And, and, and again, like with the ax throwing, iron sharpens iron. Well, honey-

Jim: (laughs) I’m sorry. That’s a funny one. Bing. “Oh, honey, sorry. It’s iron-

John: That’s a good date. Yeah.

Jim: … sharpening, or iron sharpens iron.” Your turn, yeah.

Jay: Or, or the, the geocaching, finding treasure in … you know, w- w- we’re in clay pots, but we’re a treasure in a clay pot. And so trying to … that’s what these date nights for, those that are not necessarily bent on the spiritual side of life. This is just a gentle nudge towards how you can bring God into the date and make it-

Laura: Yes. So, in the book, we do have some helpful hints for discussion-

Jim: Oh, good.

Laura: … that points you towards spiritual things-

Jay: Yeah.

Laura: … towards God, place that you can journal if you’re that type of person. Um, “Here’s what we did. Here’s what we talked about,” you know, those kinds of things if you want to keep that. Um, I’m more of the journaler than Jay is, but, um, but, yeah, that’s, that, uh, uh … Definitely, God has brought you together for a reason, and so God is a part of this union. And we want to make sure that you steer your dates that direction.

Jim: Yeah.

Jay: And, and Scripture is clear. I mean, Song of Solomon, uh, is basically one big date.

Jim: Yeah.

Jay: You know? They’re pursuing one another, and that’s what dating is about is pursuing one another in a way that, that garners that romance, that garners those feelings that we first had when we were married.

Jim: A little bit cultural difference, you know. You remind me of a great goat-

Laura: (laughs)

Jim: … or a pomegranate, or whatever.

Jay: Yeah.

Jim: Right? You gotta, you gotta kind of go with the culture.

Jay: There was also the goat’s teeth, I think, were involved.

Laura: (laughs)

Jay: (laughs)

Jim: The goat’s teeth, the goat’s hair, don’t try that one.

Jay: (laughs) No, that’s right.

Laura: Uh, no.

Jim: It doesn’t work today. But this has been great, you guys. Thanks so much. What a wonderful, uh, help. Ultimate Date Night: 52 Amazing Dates for Busy Couples. You made it as easy as it can be. And as we said, the recap, there’s no expense, some expense, and more expense in some of these date nights, so it’s up to you to figure out which one you want to lay out there at that moment. And, uh, you know, like we often do, if you can make a gift of any amount, we’ll send you the copy of the book. And, uh, and that way, we’re doing ministry together. You’re part of the team, helping other couples, saving babies’ lives, helping parents be better parents. Why not do a win, win, win?

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So, send a gift. We’ll send you the book, and you can get with the date nights.

John: Yeah, call us today and donate generously as you can. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459, where we’ve got all the details at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And, uh, when you’re at the website, be sure to look for a list of free, uh, conversation starters that we have for you. Our marriage team has compiled a list of at least 100 different things that you can use to kind of kick off your conversation when you’re on a date. So, uh, check that link out, and I think you’ll enjoy that as well.

Jim: Hey, Jay and Laura, thank you so much.  This has been fun and insightful. So, thank you so much.

Jay: Our pleasure.

Laura: Our pleasure.

Jay: Thanks for having us.

John: Mm-hmm. And, uh, plan to be with us next time. We’ll hear from Jade Warshaw. She co-hosts the Ramsey show and has some insights about handling finances as a couple.

Jade Warshaw: And so, if you can change just the simplest terms of saying, “How are we going to spend our money,” and, “Did we get paid this weekend?” And, you know, um, “Have we paid our bills yet?” Just the we, the our, the us, it really creates, uh, unity between the two.