Jim Daly: A Focus listener recently wrote to us and said, “My wife told me at dinner last night that she doesn’t know why we’re still married and that she never really loved me. I’m devastated.” Dr. Clarke, what would you say to that man?
Dr. David Clarke: I’d say you got to get up, get past denial, and get on a road of aggressive, tough love as soon as you can.
End of Excerpt
John Fuller: Well, tragically, situations like that happen all too frequently, where one spouse or the other suddenly decides they want to end the marriage. And that may sound like a hopeless situation, but our guest on today’s episode of Focus on the Family, Dr. David Clarke, has an action plan for you where you use Godly truth to do everything you can to save your relationship. You’re going to hear a lot more about that today, and your host is Focus president and author Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller.
Jim: Uh, John, we live in a throwaway culture where people don’t value concepts like permanence or commitment or staying true to your word like previous generations have done. When there’s conflict or disappointment, infidelity or even apathy, too many couples are ready to give it up, and we hear from husbands and wives all the time who are desperate to rescue their marriages, and that’s why we have our Hope Restored program, where we provide intensive counseling over several days, offering new hope to couples who may already have divorce papers in hand. But with God’s help, we’ve literally seen these hurting couples pull back from the brink of divorce and find restoration in their marriages. That’s why Focus on the Family is here, to help you in your moment of need, and I urge you to contact us right away if your marriage is struggling like that.
John: We do have a lot of resources to help, like our team of caring Christian counselors and, uh, we’d be happy to connect you with one of them when you call 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459. Uh, we’ll schedule a time for a counselor to give you a call back who can listen to your story and pray with you and point you to additional help. And we’d also be, uh, pleased to be able to tell you more about Hope Restored when you get in touch. Again, our number, 800-A-FAMILY, or online, we’re at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And I mentioned Dr. Clarke, he’s a licensed psychologist, a marriage and family therapist, a podcast host, and author of several books, and we’ll hear more about one of those today called What to Do When Your Spouse Says, I Don’t Love You Anymore. Jim, here’s how you began that conversation with Dr. Clarke on Focus on the Family.
Jim: Like that letter I read just a moment ago, that husband or that wife, whoever is sitting in that seat, and the other spouse is saying, “I don’t think we should be married. I don’t think I ever loved you.” I mean, what goes through that person’s mind and heart when they hear something like that?
Dr. Clarke: It is just like an atom bomb exploding and it comes out of nowhere. You’re absolutely unprepared. This person that was supposed to, and said in front of a church or, and, and family and friends, they would never say that, never leave you, is now saying that. I’d be okay with them saying that if, right away, they would say, “And this is a real problem and I’ve got some issues and we need to work on this and let’s see a counselor tomorrow,” but they don’t say that. They’re done, absolutely done.
Jim: What could’ve happened in that relationship months or years before that could help prevent that? I mean, what could they have done to not get to the last knot in the rope and let go?
Dr. Clarke: I think it comes down to truth. If that … let’s say it’s the lady that said that, in this case it’s the lady, if she had, when she had her first resentment and the first thing that he did that she didn’t like, and, and something else happened and something else happened, she’s … there’s a stage that she goes through, if she didn’t tell the truth at that time, she is going to inevitably end up with no love for this man, and he is clueless. He had no idea it was coming. Tell him the truth, “Honey, this happened. I didn’t like it. Let’s change it. Uh, this is upsetting me. Something else is happening.” She didn’t say those things and so it all builds up and she’s through.
Jim: What happens, uh, along that journey? I can remember a discussion Jean and I had, uh, it was a few years ago, and, uh, she said, “You know what? I love you, but I don’t like you right now.” Should that have been an alarm for me?
Dr. Clarke: Oh, big time, huge red flag, and I, I know you responded because you’re still married.
Dr. Clarke: I want to assure the audience. But good for Jean. That was honesty. There’s a problem here, and then you started having the conversations you have to have, “How do we fix this?” And with God’s help, it’s always fixable, always.
Jim: Uh, talk again about that spouse, though, that is on his way or her way out the door? Is there, uh, the potential to reason with that person or is that an irrational act?
Dr. Clarke: It is irrational, especially if they’re Christians, and they’ve got the whole backstory set up, and like this lady said, they want to rewrite your whole history, “I never loved you. I felt pressured to marry you.” Well, baloney, show me the wedding picture with the shotgun to your head. It didn’t happen, it’s a lie, but they’ve convinced themselves. “If I never should have married you, now it’s okay, and even okay with God, I think, to leave you,” and that’s not true.
Jim: Why does a person, a human being, why do they concoct that false reality? Is it to soothe their emotions and to give them a way out?
Dr. David Clarke: Oh, yeah. Deep down, this lady knows she’s wrong, and then she has no doubt of that, but it’s way deep down. She has to somehow make this right. We always want to make our sin right and blame somebody else. She’s blaming her husband, she may be blaming God, may be blaming, uh, kin, other pressures, I don’t know, but she’s trying to make herself feel better. Right.
Jim: You apply scripture, which there’s Matthew 18 and, and I think, Dr. Clarke, you’re right, but I don’t know that many of us would think of that scripture as a marriage scripture.
Dr. Clarke: Yeah, and I’m convinced it is. It covers a lot of sins, in fact, every sin, but it certainly is a marital sin. And when you hear those words, “I don’t love you anymore,” unless it’s followed by, “And let’s fix this,” that’s a sinful statement. You don’t get to say that and it not be sin, so you have to respond as if they’re sinning and confront the sin.
Jim: Now that’s Matthew 18, to, uh, you know, confront that sin and, if the person doesn’t hear you, bring someone else. Is that what you should do?
Dr. Clarke: Right away.
Jim: Right in your marriage?
Dr. Clarke: Boom. You confront individually, and it might take a week or two because they got to get through the denial stage and what’s happening here, but you should never chase and beg and plead because that’s just legitimizes what they’re doing. Yeah, it is your fault and you’re trying hard, I’m through with you. You’ve got to actually push back and say, “No, you’re sinning. Of course, they have, we have marriage issues,” you’d say, “but those can all be fixed. We both know Jesus, don’t we?” And so, the pushing back’s important. I’m going to confront you. If you don’t respond to that, I’m going to take one or two witnesses, people that you know, in this case, it’s a woman, you’d get Godly women from your church that know her, could even be family members, that you’ll bring in and they will confront her. If that doesn’t work, you take it to the church leaders and you ask them to intervene, and Godly pastors and their staffs hopefully will do that. And my sense of that scripture is it should happen rapidly. Marriage is so sacred and Satan is pushing his agenda like a freight train. When you hear those words, they already have their plan in place.
Jim: When, when you look at that scripture, John 10:10, that says the thief, the enemy, the devil, comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Uh, you see that every day in your office, don’t you?
Dr. Clarke: Man, do I ever, and he wants to steal your marriage. And the horrible irony is the person who’s leaving for non-Biblical reasons is going to be anything but happy. Satan’s offering them this happiness. It’s going to be short-lived and they’re going to be destroyed. I tell many people that. They don’t, they’re like in a fog, and I’m pretty aggressive and I can be pretty offensive and I’m speaking truth. It’s like a fog, they don’t care, they’re going to be the exception, so I have to work with the spouse that hears those words. That’s where the work is.
Jim: Well, in fact, when you hear, let’s put it now on the man’s side, when you hear a man who says, “You know what? I don’t love you anymore. I don’t know if I ever loved you,” you say in your book that it’s most likely he already has, had, or is in the middle of an affair. Is that typical with your experience?
Dr. Clarke: Oh, yeah, 85%, nothing less than that. He’s got someone else. He’s actually in the relationship. It’s on the emotional level, may have gone sexual, or he’s singled someone out. He’s playing with someone and … or he’s in another area of sin. It’s always sin, but, very often, it’s somebody else.
Jim: Let me ask you this basic question. What pushes us there? Why are we … as Christians, why would we open that door? What is happening in us that makes us want to go through that evil door that is going to destroy your life and the life of your children and your spouse?
Dr. Clarke: It all, it goes all the way back to the garden. Satan offers us what looks like the answer to all of life’s questions on your term and you don’t need God to get this kind of happiness and pleasure. So, initially, we drift from God. Every case I’ve ever heard, I will say, “Well, what was your spiritual life like back when you were making these decisions?” Every time, wasn’t, it wasn’t very good, lack of quiet time, lack of church attendance.
Jim: So a moment of weakness?
Dr. Clarke: Right. And that comes because I’m … if I’m close with God and listening to Him, I’m still going to be tempted, but I’m going to be able to resist. Plus, I don’t have a relationship of truth and honesty with my spouse, that’s the second problem. So, when I start to get tempted, I need to tell Sandy. That’s the person I must tell. If I don’t tell her, then it becomes a secret and I continue to drift from her, thinking, foolishly, “I can handle this. I think I’ll take care of this on my own.” No, I can’t. Eventually … and Satan knows he’s got me at that point. That’s where you lose, in the first couple of steps of sin, not at the end.
John: Some really important spiritual insights for your marriage from Dr. David Clarke, our guest today on Focus on the Family, uh, discussing his book, What to Do When Your Spouse Says, I Don’t Love You Anymore. And we can tell you more about that at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Let’s go ahead and return now to this conversation with Dr. David Clarke. I asked the next question.
John: Uh, David, it seems that, um, there would be telltale signs. You said earlier that the person that says, “I don’t love you,” usually has thought that out really well. The person hearing it oftentimes is kind of caught flat-footed, uh, unaware. Aren’t there signs that something’s going on deep down inside?
Dr. Clarke: Well-
John: Doesn’t the spouse know something’s not right?
Dr. Clarke: … well, there’s … you can trust your intuition. Women especially have an intuition and, after they’ve heard the bombshell, they’ll often say, “You know what? I did think something was wrong, but I didn’t want to believe it.” I say, “Baby, go with your gut.” Now we know what’s happened now, so women need to listen to your intuition, they’ve got it, and, and God will find a way to let you know something’s not right here. If your husband is not as into you as he was before, don’t explain that away with work and stress, just acknowledge that as a fact. That’s a warning sign. And the classic symptoms of an affair would be, um, working out more, different clothes, wanting to look, wanting to look better, unexplained absences. But the bottom line is there’s something wrong in the relationship. Very few people can maintain a loving, intimate bond with God and their spouse and have an affair. It can’t be done, so they’re not doing it.
Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Clarke: But you don’t want to go to that horrible place and so you don’t. You just assume, “Well, it’s stress or something else, or this is a phase of our marriage.” Don’t do that. If you’re seeing those signs, you have nothing to lose to say, “I think something’s wrong,” ’cause, at that point, before disaster happens, you might just be able to get the truth and get it on the table.
Jim: Uh, move to the next step in this. Let’s say the, you know, the confrontation has occurred, it’s happened, and the emotional, um, bang has happened and now you’re trying to, the next day, pick up the pieces. What are the right things to do for a spouse to lay the groundwork for this to be honoring to God and to, hopefully, be saved? What would she or he be doing with that spouse that has been, uh, you know … the infidelity has existed? What does day two look like?
Dr. Clarke: So, we start right away. We want to see repentance. We want to see the person that’s been sinning broken and repentant and “I’m so sorry” and owning all the sin. If they don’t do that, you don’t have anything and you’re going to have to go into tough love. But if you do have that, the first trip, I would say, would be to your pastor, “Let’s sit down with our pastor. We know him, we love him, and we speak truth. He prays with us.” There’s some spiritual growth things the pastor can do. He can get the man … let’s say it’s the man that’s been involved in the affair, he will be involved in a group setting, uh, and have accountability. Then you’re going to make the final phone call. You might see a Christian psychologist quickly too, like myself, to guide you through the process, but there’s a final phone call. You’re going to have your husband call that other woman and, with the wife listening, and end that relationship, “My wife is listening. It was awful. I never loved you. It’s sinful. I’m embarrassed. I, I … basically, I’m rejecting you. Never contact me again.” Hang up. That closure is important. You want to make that person feel bad and go away. The warm, fuzzy last meeting never works. That’s a continuation of the affair. What also doesn’t work is, “Honey, I, I’ve had the affair, but I called her. You didn’t hear it, but I had a last meeting and I took care of it.” That … no, we don’t know what you said. There’s no trust here. I want to know exactly what you said. Furthermore, you’ll have your husband, who was involved in the affair … and the guy that’s repentant will do all these things without batting an eye. He better or there’ll be some more tough love we’ll get into. He takes an AIDS test and an STD test, uh, right away, screening for the nastier venereal diseases and, and, uh, of course, AIDS is serious. That lets him know how serious this is. We test now. We test in six months. The wife’s also going to have to get tested. Now you’re going to tell me the whole truth about what you did. This is where it gets dicey, but it’s very important. Details are important to heal. So, you’re going to, now going to … you’ve had the affair. You’re going to tell me now everything about it, where you met, every step along the way, every frame. The only exception is the gory sexual details if sex happened. I need to know what kind of sex and where it happened and how often, and the things that were talked about and what your crazy mind was thinking. You’re going to allow me to ask questions. There’s going to be a lot of intense conversation. We hit it head-on, directly. Any attempt to skip that will ruin the marriage. You’ll never trust again. And even if you limp along as a married couple, it won’t be very good.
Jim: Let me ask this question. The, um, the spouse that’s been wounded, um, she has a Biblical reason to end the marriage. In your experience as a counselor, um, what is the right thing to do? What is the good thing to do? And it may come down to case by case, but what have you seen in the thousands of couples that you’ve counseled? What is good?
Dr. Clarke: Well, it what is good, and I will always recommend this, I never recommend divorce even if there’s, uh, a Biblical reason. She does have that in this situation, but God wants the greater glory and He wants to restore this couple. So, if the man is truly repentant, and we’ll go through a series of very tough steps over the next five, six months, literally, it can be the best marriage anybody ever had.
Jim: You have seen that?
Dr. Clarke: I have seen it hundreds of times, no ill effects, no lingering cloud, no “I can’t trust him really much anymore.” That’s Satan’s lie. God’s a god of total restoration if you do it His way, repentance, brand-new marriage. They’re sitting there. They don’t believe me ’cause they can’t believe that could happen, “Our marriage is gone.” I say, “Yes, your marriage is gone. Your first marriage is over, no doubt. Bury it, it’s done. We’re going to start fresh now and we’re going to build a new one with God’s help.” So, I never recommend the divorce. I’ve had women that have made that choice and you have to respect it, but I think if the man is really repentant, there’s a greater story and it could be totally the story.
John: Uh, okay, so there is somebody that, um, truly is repentant, um, but there have to be people that you’ve worked with where you just don’t know. I mean, how can you tell if that, uh, that guilty party really is repentant?
Dr. Clarke: Now every step I recommend, I think, is Biblically based, I’m convinced of it, and is good for healing, but it’s also a test. Everything I ask for is a test, and attitude is everything, and you can just tell. Will you … I actually have them not only verbally describe everything that happened over and over and take the wife’s comments and, and if she wants to talk about the affair, you will. I don’t care if it’s 2:00 in the morning. Every question is a good question. You’re … let her vent and you’re sorry and you’re working with her. I actually have the, the sinning spouse write out what I call the document. He will write out the story of his affair like a novel. It’s the worst thing you could ever ask someone to do. I want all the truth. You’re going to read it here in my office next week. I mean, if a guy that will do that without flinching and go, “I will do it,” is a man that’s changing. That’s a heart change. Wow. He’ll take the test. He’ll go the pastor. He’ll go to the sexual addiction group if it’s a sexual addiction problem. Also, I’ll ask him … now this is … we’re talking about this relationship, I, now, over the course of your marriage, are going to ask you to tell your wife everything you’ve ever done in the sexual scenario. Oh, my goodness, there’s … pornography has probably been … and that’s Satan’s, one of his uses of pornography. He doesn’t want it to end there. It’s awful enough. He want you to have an actual woman. He’s not going to be satisfied until he does. So, we’re going to have the document also include pornography, any flirting, uh, any strip clubs, I mean, anything that would be inappropriate. We’re going to dump everything out now ’cause we don’t want to find out later that we missed something.
John: You set a high, high bar for performance for that guilty person.
Dr. Clarke: Boy, I do.
John: And it’s intended to bring about healing and also to make sure that they truly are repentant?
Dr. Clarke: Right. These guys, when they hear me go over this and they read the book, the ones that flush out, flush out right away. How dare … they’re angry at me, “How dare you ask me to do these things?” I’ll say, “How dare you do what you did? Are you, are you out of your …”? And they’ll get angry. They’ll character assassinate me and they’ll find another counselor that will do it the wimpy way. Let’s skip the affair and even say … and there are pastors that still do this, and Christian counselors, that will blame the wife for her husband’s affair. She has zero percent, um, culpability, zero, dead zero. When you sin, you sin. Now second phase, we get to the marriage. Sure, there were marriage problems. That’s no excuse for sin. God would never hold for that. When you sin, you sin alone, and you sin before God and you have to answer to Him. So, when we get to the second phase, after you’ve helped your wife heal from what you’ve done, now we’ll fix the marriage, and that’s where your wife, of course, has, has responsibility. But I, I draw an absolute, you know, cut line between what you did with this other woman and your wife.
Jim: And I want to ask the obvious question. When you have that spouse that, that hears you and doesn’t respond, isn’t, uh, into healing the marriage, what should the offended spouse do?
Dr. Clarke: You go into hyperdrive. You’re angry in a righteous way and you’re going to gather your support team and you’re going to really push back. Now we have a serious sinner on our hands, even more than what he did, which means you’re going to have one or two witnesses confront him and, in the meantime, you’re going to say, “You know what, buddy? I’m done with you.” You turn the tables, “You say you’re done with me? Uh-uh, no, I’m done with you, and I’m through with you until and unless you follow a series of steps to get me back.” So, you turn the tables totally. It takes strength and power to do that, and you need some support in order to have the guts to do it. But shoving back, I’ve seen that work many times. As much as 80 or 90% of cases, when you really get tough, they can turn around if you’re tough enough. So one or two witnesses, “I’m going to the church,” and then, if he doesn’t respond to that, then we get the end stage of Matthew 18, the, the passage in 17, treat him as a pagan or a tax collector, which means you shun him for a full month. You’re through with him and you bring that. You don’t sit with him in church. You’re not in the same bed. The kids know what’s going on. They may not know what’s happening, but they’re going to … they know that Dad’s made a serious mistake and you’re in shunning mode and then you’ll seek to physically separate, if you have a guy that’s not breaking.
Jim: Uh, David, let me ask you this. You know, uh, in the Christian community, we’re taught about forgiveness, we’re taught about not letting the sun go down on your anger. And, uh, you know, these are serious moments potentially in someone’s life that need serious responses and that’s what you’re saying. But it is, it feels like everything that you’ve conditioned your life to be like under the lordship of Christ, to turn the other cheek, to be kind toward those who are harming you, you’re saying there is a time for righteous anger. Help me better understand that so I’m not confused, as that wife, um, it’s okay to be mad, because my whole Christian life I’ve been told it’s not okay to be mad.
Dr. Clarke: I’d refer the woman, and I’ll often read this in my office, Malachi 2:16, where God says, “I hate the man who betrays his wife.” That’s pretty strong. That’s righteous anger from God himself. Other verses, Ephesian, of course, 4:26, “Be angry and you do not sin. Don’t let the sun go down on your anger.” Now that doesn’t apply here because you’re going to be angry for two or three months. That’s a healthy, normal reaction. That’s how God made us. You confront the sinner and you can do that in a loving anger when he’s harmed you so terribly, so you’re responding in that way, making it a big, big crisis ’cause it is a big crisis, and that’s what’s actually going to change his heart, rather than the traditional Christian approach, which is still the most popular. Well … here’s the woman that’s been the victim, “I, I am a little overweight and I haven’t been a good way and it must be partly my fault and, if I just love him more and, and really change as a wife, he’ll drop this miserable person and, and he’ll love me.” That never, ever works. In 30 years, never seen it work. It never will because that’s not what is required.
Jim: Why does a woman tell herself those things?
Dr. Clarke: Because it’s denial. She doesn’t want to face the horrible truth. It’s a way to kind of ease out, “If I’m in some way responsible for this, then I can fix this, if, with my own behavior and, at the same time, I can avoid really facing the horrible thing he’s done. I want to minimize that.” Uh, it’s just human nature trying to protect yourself, and a couple of weeks of that is normal in this process. My job as a therapist in writing this book is to get people out of that phase as quick as I can. Reality is I’ve met with your husband. He’s done with you. He is absolutely done. Don’t think that “I don’t love” you means “I’m not sure. Let’s work on the marriage. I’ll have some of these jokers come in. They’re totally in sin. They have no intention of, of changing and dropping their sleaze or paramour, whatever you even want to call the other person, they just want to kind of make it all right and “I came to therapy and I tried.” I kick them out of my office first day. I say, “Don’t come back until you have done the things I’ve asked you to do.” And in that way, I’m modeling for the wife, “Here’s how you handle it.” She can’t do that yet, but I can do it.
Jim: I got to ask you though, and I, your intensity sparks this question. I mean, I love it, the forthrightness of it and the truth of it. What has been going on in that other, in the offender that has led them down this horrible path? What, what is in their heart that they’ve bought the lie?
Dr. Clarke: Good question. I, I’ll, I try to temper it with, “You know what? You’re driving your car off a cliff. I’m being very hard on you ’cause I’m the only guy in the road now, along with your wife, maybe a close friend or two, but is in the road saying, ‘Don’t drive your car over a cliff.’ So I’m actually loving you. It’s tough love, but I’m loving you. And if you will stop the sin, God requires you to stop the sin, not to figure it out and stop it, stop it. Once you’ve stopped it, out of faith in God alone, then we can, we’ll figure out how this happened. And part of the document and part of the process is figuring out how Satan got you ’cause, if we don’t figure that out, he’ll get you the same way again. He’s good at what he does. And it probably goes back to your childhood and rejection by your previous spouse and issues in your marriage. Okay, all, let’s look at all that stuff, but you own the sin.” But a part of the process is just that, Jim. We find out what went wrong-
Dr. Clarke: … part of the healing.
Jim: We have really talked about some, you know, gut-wrenching things today, John.
John: Very intense, yeah.
Jim: Um, we’ve talked about how we fall out of love, how we must approach the sin of our spouse by using the model found in the Bible in Matthew 18 and, and I think, Dr. Clarke, you’re right. Um, we need to still talk about more though, how we get on that road to recovery, how we deal, uh, directly with those sin issues, and what to do if your spouse isn’t willing to do the work after several months, what’s that next step. Can you stay with us and let’s continue the tough talk?
Dr. Clarke: Thanks. I’d like to.
John: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and our guest has been Dr. David Clarke discussing his book, What to Do When Your Spouse Says, I Don’t Love You Anymore.
Jim: John, David has provided some hard-hitting advice about confronting sin and brokenness in our marriages, and I’m sure many of our listeners have been challenged by what he shared today. We get a lot of response from people when Dr. Clarke is on, and maybe this conversation has stirred up concerns about the state of your marriage and you’re wondering, “What do I do next?” First, let me encourage you to pray. Ask God to direct your steps and give you wisdom about how to proceed. That’s a great place to start.
John: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jim: And you may want to talk with a pastor or a counselor or contact us here at Focus on the Family. We want to help you rescue and strengthen the relationship with your spouse. We’ve mentioned our counseling team and Hope Restored many times. Uh, we have resources available for you and we’re ready to assist you in any way we can.
John: Our number is 800-A-FAMILY. That’s 800-232-6459. Uh, call and request a consultation with one of those caring Christian counselors or ask for more information about our marriage intensives, Hope Restored, and all the other resources we have to help your marriage. You can also connect with us online at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And, Jim, we’ve seen so many marriages transformed when people reach out to us and we’re so honored that God has used this ministry, Focus on the Family, to help hurting couples.
Jim: In fact, John, we recently heard from a woman living in West Virginia, we’ll call her Rachel, and Rachel described how she had become very dissatisfied in her 25-year marriage and was feeling bitter and hard-hearted toward her husband. Rachel was ready to leave, but, thank God, uh, she felt convicted in her heart and cried out for God’s help instead. Miraculously, a short time later, she received the Focus on the Family magazine in her mailbox. With a pounding heart, she read every article, and then she spent the next three days listening to the Focus on the Family podcast. Rachel wrote this in response, “God has performed a great work in my marriage and he chose to use Focus on the Family as my main source of help. Although my marriage isn’t where I want it to be just yet, we are learning and growing, and I feel like God is leading me to be a marriage and family counselor and I believe that he wants to use my testimony to help others find their way to a better marriage. Thank you so much for the work that you do.” And, John, that’s, uh, simply amazing, and a big part of that thank you needs to go to so many of our friends who have faithfully supported the ministry. I’m talking to you, those of you that donate. Because of your generous giving, we’ve been there to rescue hurting marriages just like Rachel’s. Now if we haven’t heard from you in a while or you’ve never supported Focus on the Family, let me invite you to become a monthly partner with us. Your monthly pledge will help us better plan and allocate resources to meet the needs of so many families during this new year. Uh, let me just ask, can we count on your financial support today?
John: Please do contact us, uh, about your donation and the monthly pledge really helps, as Jim said. Uh, even a one-time gift, though, does make a difference. And regardless of what you choose to do, when you make a gift of any amount to Focus on the Family today, we’ll say thank you by sending a copy of Dr. Clarke’s book, What to Do When Your Spouse Says, I Don’t Love You Anymore. Again, our phone number, 800-A-FAMILY, or you can donate online and get that book at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And be sure to join us next time for part two of our conversation with Dr. Clarke. For now, on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team here, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family and do plan to be with us again next time as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ.