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Helping Engaged Couples Become More We-Focused

Air Date 04/11/2018

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Drawing upon the lessons she's learned from her marriage of more than 35 years, Lucille Williams offers young couples practical advice for building a strong marital foundation in a discussion based on her book, From Me to We: A Premarital Guide for the Bride-and Groom-to-Be.

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Episode Transcript

Opening:

Teaser: 

Woman #1: Planning a wedding is hectic, it’s cumbersome. 

Man #1: I think my favorite part was the cake testing. 

Woman #1: “We found her dress on a sale rack at the bridal store. 

Man #2: At the wedding rehearsal, I decided it would be really fun if I could walk out to the Iron Man theme song. 

Woman #2: The day before our wedding it snowed a foot and a half. 

Woman #1: …but it’s also a very joyful... time. It’s one of those stressful, joyful times. 

End of Teaser 

John Fuller: Those are comments about what it's like to plan a wedding. And certainly, those months, uh, leading up to the wedding are exciting. - a lot of, uh, unanticipated problems to solve. But there's so much going on. And both for the couple getting married and the parents of that couple, there's just a lot to consider.

Well, today on "Focus on the Family," we're gonna equip you to help that engaged couple and single adults in your life prepare not just for the wedding, but for a life together as a married couple. And your host is Focus president and author Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, it is a crazy moment. I don't know about you and Dena, but Jean and I - we had to plan a wedding in just weeks because we had an opportunity where we could travel the country together doing drug and alcohol abuse shows at high schools. So, we didn't have a date. We'd been engaged about, you know, a year, but, uh, we didn't have a date set yet. And I got this phone call. I put the phone to my chest, and I looked at Jean. We were over at my brother's for dinner. And I said, "Jean, you want to get married in the next six weeks and head off?"

(LAUGHTER)

Jim: And she - and I remember her face, because she's a planner.

John: Yes.

Jim: And she looked at me and said, "can we call your friend back tomorrow" (laughter)? And I said to Paul - I said, "Paul, I'll call you back tomorrow." And we prayed about it that night. We just felt it was the right thing to do. So, we actually pulled that together in about six weeks.

John: Six weeks.

Jim: Jean was finishing at UC Davis. She was in the middle of finals. And it worked, but, man, it was hectic and probably, in hindsight, a little crazy and stupid of us to do that.

But wedding planning, uh, definitely feels like that rollercoaster. Uh, there's so many things to think about - the date, the location, the guest list, who's gonna be there. I mean, uh, you sure you want that uncle to come (laughter)? You know, and, uh, it's just that kind of moment.

And today, we do want to equip you to think about, uh, that moment if your kids are not married yet and, uh, if they are just married, this is still gonna be great content for you as a parent and for you as a young couple. For you that are single. We've got a great ministry here called "Boundless" for single folks - 20-, 30-something singles. And Lisa Anderson does a wonderful job. And I'm sure our guest is going to be having an appearance on the "Boundless" website.

John: There's no doubt because Lucille Williams has a similar heart to help prepare couples and singles for, uh, a life-long marriage, uh, when that day comes. She has counseled engaged couples for about two decades now. And, uh, Lucille and her husband have been married for over 30 years. They have three grown children and two grandchildren. And she's written a great book that we're talking about today called From Me to We: A Premarital Guide for The Bride- And Groom-To-Be.

Body:

Jim: Hey, Lucille. Great to have you here at Focus.

Lucille Williams: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Jim: Now first of all, I'm gonna tell ya, uh, you are too young to be a grandmother. I mean, my goodness.

Lucille: Well, thank you.

Jim: That's crazy. It's so funny.

Lucille: OK, well, thank you very much. I can go now. That's wonderful.

Jim: John and I are not grandparents, and we're jealous.  

Lucille: (Laughter).

Jim: I mean, I have teenagers at home. What are you doin'?

Lucille: Oh.

Jim: You must have married really young.

Lucille: I did. I did. I was 19 - two weeks after my 19th birthday...

Jim: OK.

Lucille: ...I took a stroll down the aisle.

Jim: Talk about those chaotic early years. I mean, a lot of people now, especially in the Christian community - our former board member, Al Mohler, who's the president of Southern Seminary - he has blogged and talked a lot about the importance of lifting marriage up to our young people. You know, so many young people are waiting till their late 20s. And it's hard to control those passions - the scripture even talks about that. And he says, and I - I tend to agree, don't let that burn inside you. Get married younger. It's a beautiful thing. The gift of marriage is the right thing. So, you obviously chose that path. How did you and Mike meet? And how'd you get together?

Lucille: We got together when, um, I was actually in the high school - I - we went to the same high school, and he lived across the street from the high school that I was attending.

Jim: Yeah.

Lucille: I was 17 years old, and I used to get out of my last class and run to his apartment.

Jim: Well, now you got to clarify. What was going on?

Lucille: Well, you need to know we were not Christians, and not even close to being Christians.

Jim: OK.

Lucille: And so, at 17, I had a boyfriend who had a good job and a car. And he was great. And he was fun. And he had his own apartment. And we would hang out regularly at his apartment.

Jim: So not long after, I mean, obviously, within two years, you guys got married. That was a good decision, by the way. For all listening, that's the right way to do it.

Lucille: Yes. It's the right way to do it.

Jim: And, uh, when did you make that commitment to Christ? Did you do that as a couple? Or when did that happen for you and Mike?

Lucille: That was later. We had been married for about five years. And it was rough - a lot of fighting. Terrible things were happening in our marriage. I mean, I understand when couples come in and they'll say to me or my husband, "we're in a rough marriage. It's tough." We get that. We know what that feels like. And it's - it's horrible. It's one of the worst things you could be is be in a bad marriage. And we were in a really bad marriage.

Jim: So, when you talk about from me to we, I mean, this is deep. This isn't just a high-level kind of fun thing. You guys had a transformation in your lives, your hearts and your marriage.

Lucille: Completely. When we got married, it was - it was all me. I was trying to get what I wanted. He was trying to get what he wanted. I was pursuing a career and I told him, "don't get in my way, buddy, because you're gonna get kicked aside. If, you know" - "well, what if you have to go?" - "then I go." And he's like, "what do you mean?" And so, he was trying to control me, and I was nasty. And we were always fighting. Sometimes we would fight for two weeks and not talk to each other for two weeks. It was - it was - I don't know we even stayed together over those five years.

Jim: OK, so I've got to ask you. So today, when you have a disagreement, what's it look like as believers (laughter)?

Lucille: Oh, it's - well, we're talking 35 years later.

Jim: Yeah.

Lucille: So, it's completely different. And we have learned to defuse each other really quick - really, really quick.

Jim: That is so wonderful. I mean, that, to me, is life. What you're describing there, this is the way it should be, especially if you're a non-believer. And we have a number of - of non-Christians that listen to the program. We wanna encourage you to get on the track with, uh, knowing who Christ is and where he can take you, and your testimony, as part of thatUh... In that regard, talk about the - the desire to reach young people and to help them do it better. What do you think are the key things when it comes to doing a wedding and all that planning in a better way?

Lucille: I think that right from the start, when - from dating and from when - from the time when couples are engaged, it's that groundwork for what the marriage is gonna look like later. Things that are said can't be taken back. That period of time is just a short period of time, but your wedding - the wedding day is one day, and then your marriage is forever.

Jim: Right.

Lucille: So, don't sacrifice a planning period and one day for what your forever future is.

Jim: Yeah, in fact, you and Mike had a pretty interesting wedding, right?

Lucille: We did.

Jim: (Laughter) I wanna go back to it. What went right, and what went wrong?

Lucille: We had a lot of things go wrong on our wedding day.

Jim: (Laughter) Describe it.

Lucille: I was at my house. He was at his house. Uh, just - tensions were flaring. He and I got on the phone. We got in a big fight.

Jim: On your wedding day?

Lucille: On our wedding day. We're screamin' at each other - terrible things were said, vulgarities were said to each other. We were just slinging words like crazy. And, um, all of a sudden, my brother-in-law gets on the phone - my husband's brother.

Jim: Older brother?

Lucille: Uh, older brother.

Jim: (Laughter) I knew it was the older brother.

Lucille: Christian older brother.

Jim: Oh, good for him.

Lucille: We weren't Christian at the time, but he was.

Jim: Yeah.

Lucille: And he talked to me, and he calmed me down. And I remember sayin' to him, "I'm not gonna marry him. He's a big jerk." And my brother-in-law just calmed me down. And next thing you know, my husband was back on the phone. Of course, he wasn't my husband at the time.

Jim: Right.

Lucille: And the wedding was back on.

Jim: Well, in a few hours (laughter).

Lucille: Yeah, I was - he was going to be in a few hours. Yeah.

Jim: That's crazy. Most people are going, "why did you not say, 'stop the ship. Stop everything'?" You still went through, and you got married.

Lucille: We did. The way our life was, that was normal.

Jim: That was normal.

Lucille: I mean, even, like, when we were engaged, that was just the way we interacted with each other. We didn't know that there could be any other way.

Jim: I want to get to the honeymoon. There had to be more fireworks on the honeymoon.

John: (Laughter).

Lucille: OK, well, something actually happened on the honeymoon that my husband...

Jim: I can't believe it.

Lucille: Yeah.

John: Who would've thought?

Lucille: My husband told me - he said, "don't ever tell anybody that this happened." He made me promise.

Jim: Uh, oh. Well, let's tell 6 million people (laughter).

Lucille: Yeah, exactly. He made me promise. He's like, "no one will know." We never even told our children.

Jim: Do you need to call him right now to get permission?

Lucille: So - well it’s - it's in the first chapter of my book.

Jim: OK. So, Mike, this is already out there. Don't - don't call me.

Lucille: It's already out there. So, he, yeah, but before I could write, it I called him and I said, "honey, I have this opportunity. I've gotta write that story. I've just gotta write that story."

Jim: (Laughter) What was it?

Lucille: And he had to pray for a day. And then he finally said, "OK, go ahead." So, what happened, we took a cruise for our honeymoon. And, I mean, cruises are wonderful. They do everything for you. We were having a great time. We were dancing at night. We were seeing the sights during the day. It was wonderful. And then, the last night we were there, they wanted our luggage. So, I thought I'd be...

John: They prepare the luggage. And you put it outside your door.

Lucille: Right. You put - exactly. So, I thought I'd be brilliant, and I told my husband, "hey, we'll just keep the clothes on that we're wearing. And then tomorrow morning, we'll just put the same thing on, and we'll have less things to carry around." He wasn't too sure about it, but he's like, "all right, you know, let's do it." So that night, we were - we were with friends, 'cause we had met a lot of other honeymooners. And - and, um, we were sitting at this table, and it was oval-shaped. And we were - we were inside the oval, so it was people to his side and there's people to my side. And he and I were real close because, you know, it's our honeymoon, so we're sitting close...

Jim: Uh, oh.

Lucille: ...And holding hands and all of that. And all of a sudden, he put his head back and he started vomiting.

Jim: (Laughter) Aw, man.

Lucille: Like a volcano. Like an eruption.

Jim: Oh, it's one of those cruise ships (laughter).

Lucille: And you thought it was - yes. You thought it was over, and it just kept coming.

John: Oh, my word.

Lucille: And it just kept coming. And it's falling all over him. It's falling all over me. And - and - and...

John: And people are scattering.

Lucille: Finally, yeah, we think he's done, but then he's not done, and more comes out. And we're just - and so then, finally, it's done. And we're sitting there. And it was just like that - uh. And we are so humiliated. We're both just sitting there just - and everyone's looking at us.

Jim: What do we do now?

Lucille: No one said a word. Not one word, no snicker, nothing. And so, he and I just kind of, like, sat there. And the people got out so that we could get out. And so, we walk out, and we go up to our room. And now we're covered in vomit. He vomited, but it was on me and it was on him - it was on both of us. Even though he's the one that vomited, it landed on both of us. And I was like, "wow, this is what marriage is like, I guess." And so, I had to find some soap. And, um, I went into the bathroom. And I had our clothes.

And I remember looking at these vomited clothes.

Jim: Yeah.

Lucille: Clothes with - I'm looking at...

Jim: Yeah. You got it (laughter).

Lucille: ...Clothes with vomit all over them. And they're sitting in the sink, and I'm trying to wash it out. And I stopped. And at 19, I looked down and I thought to myself, this is marriage. This is what marriage is.

Jim: Oh, wow.

Lucille: Because you don't know what marriage is until you jump in. And all of a sudden, I was just hit with that reality. This is marriage. It was like, (gasp)...

Jim: Uh, oh.

Lucille: What now?

Jim: Yeah. What now? You got to tell us the end of the story. What happened? What'd you do? You clean that stuff up and put the clothes back on?

Lucille: We cleaned it up. We cleaned it up. We hung up our clothes. The next morning, our clothes were still wet, but we had to put them on. And, you know, fun fact - your clothes dry quicker - quicker when they're on your body.

Jim: That's a - that's a horrible story.

Lucille: Yeah, it was horrible.

Jim: OK, let's talk as a parent. Uh, John, you've got 20-somethings. I've got a 17- and 15-year-old. They're around the corner. I don't know when they're gonna get married. We hope that they do, obviously, unless they want to pursue the Lord as a single. That's an honorable thing. So many singles that listen to "Focus on the Family" often write us or email us and say, "don't forget us. You know, we wanna belong, too." And I'm recognizing that. That, that's an admirable thing. But many people, um, that listen to "Focus on the Family" are married people. And, uh, talk about that, as a parent of our young adults, uh, who are going to get married sometime in the next, you know, three to five years probably, maybe sooner for you, John.

John: Hope so.

Lucille: (Laughter).

Jim: Um, how can we prepare them for married life? What kind of conversations do we have with them? It's a little daunting. I - I'm talking to Trent and Troy about it, but I don't know that I've had the right conversations with them, other than about keeping themselves pure for marriage and for their future spouse.

Lucille: Yeah, those are tough conversations. What happens is, you know, we - we fall in love, and it's like we're on drugs. And you cannot think straight. You cannot think straight. You have to have people around you that can think straight and help you. So just recently, I put on lusays.com - my site - L-U says - it's - it's the marriage material quiz. And I'm getting a really great response there, because people need to know, is this person gonna be an Ephesians 5 husband or wife? And so, I put this quiz on there, so they can just kind of evaluate. Because sometimes you, as parents, you can go, I don't know. I'm not sure that this person would be a good spouse, but they're in love and they're in the clouds and they're - everything is so wonderful. So sometimes they need another voice coming in and going, did you consider this? Did you think about that? Do you have any idea what this means in the long run?

Jim: Yeah.

Lucille: And people sometimes don't realize that, so that's why I have that on my site - on lusays.com - so that people can go and say, OK, I'm gonna take this quiz and see if this person I'm dating is marriage material.

Jim: But now, let me ask you though, Ephesians 5 - you said that very quickly - but did - kinda fill that out. What is Ephesians 5 talking to us about? What is - what does that mean to someone who may not be familiar with Ephesians 5?

Lucille: Well, right out of the gate, as a woman, it says, "be subject your husbands. Ladies, be submissive to your husbands." The Bible tells us that over and over. And I remember as a young bride, when I first became a Christian - well, I wasn't a young bride because I was five years in when we became Christians. And...

Jim: You were 24?

Lucille: Uh, yes. Young person.

Jim: (Laughter) Go ahead.

Lucille: And I remember when I first read that, I was so angry. I'm like, "I've been fighting with this guy all these years, and now I have to be submissive to him. Are you kidding me? There's no way that's gonna happen." And I got so angry. I would get mad with God, because when I would read scripture, then I knew I had to do it. And so, I was like, "uh-uh. I'm not doing this one." And I would get so mad. But then, I said, "OK. OK, God, this is what you say, so I'm going to give it a try."

Jim: (Laughter) I'm gonna give it a try.

Lucille: (Laughter) And what I learned is that yielding is love.

Jim: Huh.

Lucille: We yield out of love. You yield because you love them and you're saying, OK, well, it's just considering them. It doesn't mean you're under or less-than or somehow, um, not up to par. It means that you love them and you're willing to yield.

Jim: Lucille, you're on, probably, one of the most volatile aspects of scripture in our modern age. I mean, 'cause many, many young women struggle with this, and so do many young men, because they don't know what it means to lead. And - and fill that in a bit more. I get that. That is beautifully and wonderfully said, but you're right there at the crossroads of culture where it is hard to say, "OK, Lord." Describe for us what that meant to submit to Mike. So many people that I talk to, in the media, for example, they don't get this. They don't understand it. It's - they're in that anger spot.

John: A foreign concept.

Jim: They think, "what is this? But describe how that works in modernity. What does it mean for a couple to really submit to one another?

Lucille: Yes, yes. When I have young ladies come to me and they say, "my husband's not a leader. He's not a leader." I always look at them and say, "you know what the definition of a leader is? It means someone's following them. So, if they're not a leader, maybe you need to be a better follower." And we're so quick to put it on the men. Oh, he's not spiritual, or he's not doing this, he's not doing that, he's not doing - and I say, "whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold it. What is he doing right? Tell me what he's doing right. Tell me what you love about him. Now follow that man. The more you follow him, the better leader he's gonna be." And women miss that. They miss thatBut in scripture, it tells us that, "as a wife, you submit to your husband." And - but what does it say to the husbands? "Love your wife as Christ loved the church."

Jim: Now that feels impossible at times - I gotta tell you - from the male perspective.

Lucille: Yeah. What's harder?

Jim: You're perfect. I'm not.

Lucille: Exactly. So, what is harder? You tell me to - to - to be submissive to your husband or to love your wife as Christ loved the church. I mean, that's an impossible task. And so, what I like to do when I'm frustrated with something my husband's doing is I go to Proverbs 21 where it says, "the king's heart is like channels of water in the Lord's hand. He directs it wherever he wishes." And what I do is I take the word king, and I put Mike in there. And I say, "OK, God, he's yours. I'm listening to him, and I'm following him because I follow and I trust you." So basically, when we trust God, we can trust our husbands.

Jim: Wow. I mean, I'm with you. And that is what the scripture says. I just think so many women right now, especially single women and just-married women are going, "are you sure, Lucille? You don't know my husband."

Lucille: And I get that.

Jim: But you've heard it all (laughter). You've heard the excuses.

Lucille: I do get that. And you know what? You don't know my husband.

Jim: (Laughter).

Lucille: I mean, he's a wonderful man, and I love him, but he's a man. And men are men. Women are women. We're all broken. We're all broken. And we need to learn how to be broken together and give each other kindness and forgiveness and - and just be willing to say, "OK, let's start over."

Jim: Yeah.

John: Some great advice from Lucille Williams. She's our guest today on "Focus on the Family." And we're talking about, uh, some of the content in her book, From Me to We and how you can have a stronger foundation for a lifelong marriage. Get a copy of From Me to We when you stop by focusonthefamily.com/radio. Or give us a call and request a CD of our conversation as well. Our number is 800-232-6459.  

Jim: Lucille, you mentioned, uh, in essence, those expectations for a - a couple that's engaged. Let's lay those out. Let's go back there to what are healthy expectations for an engaged couple to expect in marriage? Do you have a - a tick sheet that you can give us two or three? What are those things they really need to remember from the day of their wedding on forward?

Lucille: When you get married and you choose one person to spend the rest of your life with, you now love them so much. And with that love also comes the ability to be hurt. And so, what happens is, we get married to someone who we think is always gonna fill us up, always gonna make us feel great, always gonna do the right thing and do what we want from them. And then, all of a sudden, they hurt us. Because they can hurt us more than anybody else.

Jim: That vulnerability and intimacy.

Lucille: Exactly. Exactly. And that's gonna happen. That's one of the things that you need to be prepared for, which is why we need to safeguard the marriage before it starts, and read books like From Me to We to help safeguard your marriage so that you are ready. And in From Me to We, there's 88 discussion questions.

Jim: Give us some examples of those 88.

Lucille: Well, one of them is if your spouse turned you down for sex, how would you feel? That's something you wanna talk about before you get married. Another one, did you grow up in a home where it was easy or difficult to share your needs and desires? We need to be able to share what we need and what we desire from our spouse. That doesn't mean they're always going to say "yes" and they're always going to do what we want or what we think we need, but we need to be adults and be able to say, "this is what I need from you." So often, couples get married, and they don't know how to express what they need from each other.

Jim: Well, that is so true. And that does take maturity. Uh... you compare marriage to a pile of dirty laundry. (Laughter) You gotta tell me - how?

Lucille: Well, when - when you get married, all of his stuff, all of your stuff, all the dirty stuff, all the stuff you've got buried, it's like - it's like you have a floaty in the pool, and you're trying to hold it down. And you can hold it down through the engagement process, but you can only hold it down for so long. And then all of a sudden, it's just gonna shoot up, and all that stuff that you try to hide about yourself, all the things that you don't want to tell anyone, all the things in your past that you were, like, I don't want to talk about this - if they knew this about me, maybe they would reject me - you've got to let that out and talk about those things and let them love you.

Jim: Well, and that goes along with another concept in the book, where you talk about not keeping secrets as a couple. That can be, you know, when I first read that, there's counselors that'll be on both sides of that, and we need to recognize it. Not that you want to keep secrets from each other, but some would say discretion is important, especially for your past life and all those kinds of things. But give me your philosophy on that and the biblical connection to it.

Lucille: Secrets are not good. And when I got married, I had a big secret. And obviously, I couldn't hide it anymore because I was married. And my secret was that I had an eating disorder. And I was making myself vomit throughout the day. And I had no control over it at all.

Jim: And then Mike was seeing this.

Lucille: And so, Mike noticed it. And I convinced him at first, "oh, it's no big deal, honey. It's just the way I - it's just the way I keep my weight down. It's fine." So, he bought it at first, but then he did a little research on his own, which was hard to do 'cause it was back in that '80s era when people didn't really talk about that. An era - and most of the women were, like, skinny, skinny, skinny. And eating disorders - people didn't really know about eating disorders at the time. And then he realized, oh, this is serious. And so, he came back. He's like, "you could die. This is serious. You - you cannot do this. You have to stop." But I couldn't. I had no control over it. I couldn't. So then, he went and he told my friends. He called all of my friends, and he told them, "do you know what she does?" He called my parents. He told them. They had no idea. He called his parents. Anyone that cared about us, he told them because he didn't - he didn't know what to do.

Jim: What was your initial reaction to that? Were you are offended?

Lucille: I wasn't. Like, for some reason, I knew that he was trying to get me help, and he didn't know what to do. And so, he was trying to save me. And I had one friend who kept calling me, and she said, Lu, you have to get help. That's what you need to do. You have to get help. And she was a Christian friend. I wasn't a Christian at the time. She was a Christian friend, and she was right. So, I had to go get help. And so, I went into therapy for a couple of years. And it was at the end of my therapy that I actually accepted Jesus Christ.

Jim: Oh, my goodness. That was a - a pathway to you accepting Christ.

Lucille: It was.

Jim: So that's an example - a powerful example - of not keeping things from your - your new spouse. I mean, talk about these things before you even get married.

Lucille: Absolutely. And I think he saved my life. I was on a road of complete destruction. And I believe that he saved my life.

Jim: What a beautiful, spiritual picture of the way it should work.

Lucille: Yeah. Exactly.

Jim: Lucille, this has been so much fun. And - and if I could ask you, really, to summarize From Me to We, what is the goal? What are you trying to say?

Lucille: "Me to We" is a book that helps couples get on the same page. We need to not be me-focused and self-centered. If you're gonna go into marriage and you're gonna be self-centered and me-focused, you are in for a lot of pain. And not only are you in for a lot of pain, but you're gonna cause your spouse, who you're vowing to love and honor for the rest of your life, you're going to cause them a lot of pain. Marriage is about sacrifice. It's about being willing to say, "OK, I blew it. I blew it. I was wrong. Please forgive me. Let's start over." God lets us start over, and we need to let our spouses start over as well. We need to apologize. We need to forgive. We need to start over. We need to start fresh. And we need to leave room so that God can work. And we need to leave room so that our spouse can grow and become the person that God intended for them. Because my husband is not the man that I married. But I believed if I just trusted him and followed him and was his cheerleader that God would make him that husband that I needed to follow. And now, it's not hard to follow him. He's such a godly man, it's - it's very easy.            

Jim: Wow.

Lucille: And I have so much respect for him.

Jim: Well, that is well-said in every way. You've experienced it. No one can take that away from you. You and Mike both have experience, from being lost in your first five years of marriage not knowing the Lord, to coming to Christ. And then - then submitting - I use that bad word.

Lucille: Exactly.

Closing:

Jim: I mean, that is a beautiful story.  This is one of those resources you really need on your shelf. You need to read it, not only for yourself and your marriage, but for your kids and for mentoring those around you who really need help in understanding what a healthy marriage looks like.

I'm telling you what folks, we can do everything we can do here at Focus to do this, but we need you. You need to be part of the Army Corps of Marriage. You know, to be out there in your churches, in your neighborhoods mentoring couples, helping couples, living it in such a way that they say, "how do you do it so well?"

And that it's real. And this is one of those resources from Lucille Williams, From Me to We, that you need. And, uh, we'll make that available in our way of saying "thank you." If you'd simply give a gift to "Focus on the Family," we'll send it to you, and it'll be one of those great resources in your tool chest.

John: Yeah. This book is a perfect gift to share with a young couple who's engaged or thinking about marriage in the near future. And it's available at focusonthefamily.com/radio or when you call 800-232-6459. 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.

And remember when you donate to Focus on the Family, you're helping us to encourage other families and single adults through this broadcast. We're listener supported and depend on your financial help to get this bible-based message out, so thank you, in advance, for your generosity.

Well, coming up next time, a powerful story from an abortion survivor. Melissa Ohden, who ultimately discovered God's healing love.

Teaser:

Melissa Ohden: I think the greatest pieces of change for me came when I not only recognized, but truly... truly allowed myself to accept the fact that He makes no mistakes. You know, we live in a society that, that branded me as a mistake long ago. And that caused me a lot of suffering.

End of Teaser

John: On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for listening today to Focus on the Family. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

 

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Guest

Lucille Williams

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Lucille Williams is a blogger, a public speaker and the author of From Me to We: A Premarital Guide for the Bride-and Groom-to-Be. Alongside her husband, Mike, she is heavily involved in ministry at their church, of which he is the children's pastor. Lucille is passionate about helping families and young people, and about serving couples as a pre-marital and marital coach. Mike and Lucille reside in California and have three grown children and two grandchildren. Learn more about Lucille at her website, LuSays.com.