Focus on the Family Broadcast

Preview:

Brant Hansen: Masculinity’s been deconstructed so effectively and so much, and some of that’s very helpful to deconstruct. Okay, we shouldn’t be this or that, okay. But what’s the construction?

End of Preview

John Fuller: That’s Brant Hansen. He’s our guest again here on Focus on the Family. We had a wonderful discussion last time about living out your true calling and purpose in life as a man. And we’re gonna revisit that topic today. Your host is Focus president and author, Jim Daly, and I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, it was a great discussion yesterday with Brant. And, you know, the thing that caught me is this idea of tending the garden, right out of Genesis. The fact that Adam kinda looked the other way while Eve was being lured in, and he was standing nearby according to scripture.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: He didn’t step in and kinda defend her and aim things in a more godly way. And, you know, we all suffer from that poor decision that Adam made. It’s called a sinful environment now, because he disobeyed God. And what a beautiful, uh, analogy to bring that forward and teach each of us men how to be, uh, the, the healthier Adam…

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … the better Adam, the, the tender of the garden Adam.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And that means your marriage, your household. If you’re a single guy, developing yourself and aiming for something that’s more meaningful than the dopamine hits we get from gaming and pornography and those things that take us down. I thought it was really powerful.

John: Yeah, it was a very proactive, prescriptive, and engaging conversation, and, uh, Brant is, as I said, our guest again today. Uh, he’s written a number of books. He’s heard on 200 Christian radio stations. Uh, he has a new book out called, The Men We Need: God’s Purpose for the Manly Man, the Avid Indoorsman, or Any Man Willing to Show Up. And we’ve got copies of that here at Focus on the Family. Just stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Or give us a call. 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.

Jim: And John, you missed one of the biggest points. He won personality of the year. (laughs)

John: Oh, yeah.

Brant: (laughs)

John: He got a special parking spot, I’m sure.

Jim: Brant, Brant, I’m just, I’m just fixated on that. (laughs)

John: No-

Brant: The irony is I don’t have that much personality. That’s-

Jim: No, I think it’s just such a great little award.

Brant: It’s funny, yeah.

Jim: You said last time they gave it… What is it you said?

Brant: Well, they, they… Since I’ve won more than one, they said I’ve won- I won multiple personality of the year awards.

Jim: (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Brant: And I’m…

John: I just love that.

Brant: We’ve got phrase that differently. (laughs)

John: Different iterations of branded different awards.

Jim: It is so great. And you know, for the listener, they might remember you being on the program. You do struggle with autism.

Brant: Yeah.

Jim: That’s something that’s part of your life.

Brant: Yup.

Jim: And you’ve really done such a fantastic job overcoming…

Brant: Well, thanks.

Jim: … those obstacles. And you’re an author. And I mean, you’re a, a radio personality, so you, you done well. Well done.

Brant: Well, thanks. And I think it’s- I think it’s one reason this book is different than uh, maybe a lot of man books.

Jim: Huh.

Brant: I’m hearing that. Uh, it’s biblically based and whatnot, bec- because I’m- I’ve got neurological problems beyond the spectrum. Like my eyes move back and forth. I have a think called nystagmus. It’s pretty profound. I have to move my head to negotiate for that, so it’s very obvious to people when they first meet me. But that kept me from- Like, I can’t do ax throwing. You don’t want the guy-

Jim: (laughs) Yeah.

John: (laughs) I can understand.

Jim: I wouldn’t volunteer to be the, uh…

Brant: Yeah, don’t bring me to your church ax throwing night with the guys.

Jim: … receiver of your ax throwing.

John: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: Right. No. How about not. S- So you don’t br-

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: We find you something else to do. Like, so, coming at it from that angle, for guys that aren’t into that stuff, like, to be able to say everybody’s welcome here. When, when people say guys need to stand up and be guys, like, what do you mean?

Jim: Hm.

Brant: ‘Cause for a lot of us, we don’t- I can’t play football. I can’t do the thing with- again, like, Special Forces stuff. Like, I- that- I couldn’t qualify for the military. I can’t- So, what, what does masculinity look like, then, for all of us?

Jim: Mm.

Brant: And I think there’s gotta be a deeper thing that underlies, and I think this is it. I think it’s the keeper of the garden thing that Adam was given to do specifically by God.

Jim: Yeah. And I so appreciate that, and, uh, definitely will guide my conversations with my young adult sons now that are in their early 20s.

Brant: Yes.

Jim: And we’re gonna have that talk and use that metaphor and apply many of these things.

Uh, last time we talked about forsaking the fake world of technology to relish what is real, and investing in relationships. Which again, everybody struggles with generally, but the younger generations, particularly, are really struggling in that area.

The second one was protecting the vulnerable. Uh, if you missed it last time go back and listen again. Get the app for the smart phone, whatever you need to do. Call us and we’ll, uh, send you the download so you can hear it.

Let’s pick it up with the third decision that you’ve encouraged guys to make, and this is a biggie. Uh, be ambitious about the right things. Uh, why do you think so many men are dissatisfied about the regular world, if I could call it that? Is it about their choices, or what- what’s going on for them to have such dissatisfaction with normal?

Brant: I, I don’t think they have any idea what they’re supposed to be doing, and what would actually be life giving to them…

Jim: Huh.

Brant: … and to the people around them. They don’t know, so they have to be told, just like we all are- can be trained into things. This is what it- this is called discipleship, but you have to give people a picture for. What I find a lot guys, though, left without being told wisdom, about what it means to be a man, to be a keeper of the garden. Absent that, you just go towards whatever the culture’s pushing on you.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: And it could be various shades of things that are offered. But the problem is, if you’re ambitious, even if you’re like, well, I’m gonna- I’m gonna work hard and, and make a lot of money, and so on and so forth, be a good citizen, like, okay. But let’s say you got little kids in the house now. Is it all about your work now? Because you need to be a… Being ambitious isn’t enough. It’s being ambitious about the right things. And what I’m trying to say, for example, in that scenario is, you need to understand life is in seasons, and right now it’s little kid season. This is it. So, you make decisions based on that. You have to be- This is what wisdom is, it’s knowing what’s valuable versus something else.

Jim: You said you made perhaps one of the best right decisions when your kids were young. What-

Brant: I totally did.

Jim: What happened?

Brant: Out of all the dumb decisions I’ve made…

John: (laughs)

Brant: I- Seriously, if I- I tell people this too, I nailed this one.

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: So, I had a very stressful job. I was a- I was doing talk radio.

Jim: Mm-hm.

Brant: It was three hours a day of arguing about politics and whatnot, and I- I was fairly good at it. When- The ratings were fine, but stressful. Well, I thought, you know what? I’ll go to law school just to shift gears and do something less stressful. So, I went ahead and got into law schools and stuff, got some really sweet offers and stuff. But I was talking to my lawyer friends who said when you get out of law school, you’re gonna have to take a job at a big firm, you’ll be home one evening a week.

Jim: Wow.

Brant: And so, I took a job that paid almost nothing, and we moved the family down to South Florida at the time. But I was done with work at noon every day. And since we homeschooled the kids, I had every afternoon…

John: Mm.

Brant: … to play with them. And mainly I played. I should have helped more with the home schooling, but, you know, I, I, I mostly just took ’em to this pool, to the beach, played, laughed…

Jim: You’re the PE director.

Brant: Yeah. That’s what I was.

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: Thank you. Good call. Um, but I know my kids.

Jim: Mm.

Brant: And then later on, guess what? My career is fine later on when I had more time.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: And that was a brilliant move.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: We did not have much money. We were stressed out a little bit about the money thing, but honestly, God provided just enough the whole way, and I would never trade that.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Boy, think of that. That’s a big statement.

Brant: Totally.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: So, I don’t- I don’t have those regrets, like- But it’s so important to ask God. I- I’m telling guys this, like, to understand what’s of value and what’s not, right now. And that’s a big part of be- being ambitious about the right things.

Jim: Yeah, and I think, you know, guys find it hard to figure out where that, where that trigger is, you know? So, if I’ve gone to business school, just fill in the blank, whatever education you have…

Brant: Right.

Jim: … or vocation, let’s include those folks that aren’t going to college. And uh, they’re getting on the fast track to do their vocational trade, it’s hard to manage that. And you think it’s- the number one thing is we need resources. We need financial resources to…

Brant: Understood. Yeah.

Jim: … pay the mortgage, to feed the kids, to get ’em to school, stuff. And especially in this environment with hyperinflation and everything we’ve got going, it may not even show up on the screen. What if we were to do less, I have more time with the kids…

Brant: Yeah. Well-

Jim: … we- and we’ll have to stretch every penny.

Brant: Yeah. For some people this is impossible. It’s like, they’re just in a financial situation, can’t do anything. But for most people, I don’t think that’s true because of buying decisions.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: And you wind up serving this car- Like, why do I have to have this nice truck?

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: Why do I have to have this nice car? Am I James Bond or something? Why can’t I drive a ’87, like, Corolla if I have to?

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: I can. I can.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: So, there are decisions a lot of times that c- I can make that will free us up from stress and allow me to enjoy my wife and enjoy my kids before it’s too late, ’cause you do not get those years back.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: What’s so interesting is your example, what you did. The one right thing you said that you did…

Brant: Yeah.

Jim: There’s not a plethora of those examples. There’s plenty of examples of men who chose career…

Brant: Yeah.

Jim: … and we can list what the outcomes of their family life was like. Typically divorced, remarried, maybe divorced twice, remarried, who knows.

Brant: Well, if they were given a vision of being a keeper of the garden, this is your actual role in this world. So, these people around you need to thrive and bloom. You’ve been entrusted with these, with these humans. You’re not about- all about domineering them, you don’t own them, all that sort of stuff. What you do as a loving father and husband in this scenario is like, these people should- I’m gonna make sure that they can thrive.

Jim: Hm.

Brant: They get to bloom. I will defend them. I will create a secure space for them. And part of that security is knowing that you’re there.

Jim: So, that’s being ambitious for the right things. That’s the third one. The fourth one now, make women and children feel safe, not threatened.

Brant: This is a big thing because a lot of us will pat ourselves on the back, and I’m- Again, I’m talking as a, as a married guy here. But a lot of- lot of us will pat ourselves on the back and say, “Well, if an intruder ever came into my home, I would defend my wife against him. I would do whatever it takes to defend.” And most of us would. That’s good. The problem, and I read this account in another book, and I had to put it in mine too, ’cause it’s like, so honest. The guy’s friend was just… said, you know, the problem is, most of the time that doesn’t happen, but the intruder is me.

John. Mm…

Brant: With my words.

Jim: Right.

Brant: With the- Like, my wife has to guard herself against my attitude, my words, my lack of involvement. My lack of security, my hurtfulness. You can pause and hurt your wife. If she says I love you and I pause, uh, “I love you, too.” Like, it’s all about- even the slightest things can be a curse to somebody.

Jim: Mm.

Brant: So, I- What I’ve been trying to say is to, to guys to rethink that scenario, where “I, I would defend my wife.” Okay. Start with your, your presence and your words. And when you see that, it’s not a guilt trip, ’cause a lot of guys can be hearing this and going, “Oh boy, yeah, I guess I’ve blown…”- Like, no, no. It’s an opportunity. We can change.

Jim: Yeah. I-

Brant: Starting today.

Jim: You know, for our Hope Restored program, this is the main thing they talk about…

Brant: Huh.

Jim: … the security.

Brant: Huh.

Jim: That women need security, and they need to feel that from their husbands. You know, one of the things too, I don’t even realize this at times. I mean, I’m a pretty big guy, I played football, and sometimes when I’m talking to the boys or to Jean, I mean, Jean will say, “Whoa, you’re coming off a little strong right now.” I don’t even know it.

Brant: Yeah.

Jim: Honestly, you don’t even know…

Brant: Yeah.

Jim: … you’re kinda…

Brant: Me too.

Jim: … whoof… And, you know, getting up for the big game, I guess…

Brant: Me, too.

Jim: …and she’ll be able to talk me down a little bit. I, I didn’t even realize it.

John: Mm.

Jim: I didn’t know I was being aggressive.

Brant: Yeah. And I, I, I get all lawyerly…

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: … and…

Jim: That’s too bad. (laughs)

Brant: Yeah. (laughs) And insistent and whatever, and my wife has had to make me aware of that. And now-

Jim: But those are threatening things, right?

Brant: Exactly.

Jim: I, I wouldn’t th- think that, especially if I’m up against another guy and we’re in the weight room talking.

Brant: Right. Right.

Jim: You know…

Brant: You don’t think it at all.

Jim: Yeah. This is the way we banter.

Brant: But this- these- this is my garden.

Jim: Right.

Brant: And these are the species in my garden who- which I love, and again, I want them to thrive and flourish because they knew me. I want them to flourish because they knew me.

John: So, when your wife calls you on being lawyerly, is it against the backdrop of, “I know your heart, but right now…” or, or does she tend to, to be a little firmer on that?

Brant: She’s pretty firm. Um, my wife’s brilliant, and, and she’s also direct and firm. Um, but, I mean, she’s right. So, I have to, I have to be able to be willing to, to understand, she respects me more when I’m embodying this thing that I’m talking about here, about being a source of security.

John:: Yeah.

Brant: People are drawn to that, too, ’cause it’s- everybody’s so insecure now. This is men, women, everybody. Children. But to have somebody who’s not anxious. Somebody who’s at peace. Somebody who’s not angry, uh, who is secure. People are drawn to it, ’cause it’s- there’s just not much of that.

John: Hm.

Jim: Yeah. A- protection, safety, I mean, it goes beyond the physical needs, we’ve alluded to that. How we speak, the posture that we take. Um, how did Jesus model this for us with his statements and his actions?

Brant: Yeah. I wrote a-

Jim: I mean, whipping the tables, that’s pretty aggressive.

Brant: (laughs)

Jim: Right?

Brant: Well-

Jim: But then asking the questions of the women at the well, it’s pretty gentle.

Brant: Yeah. E- He- I, I write one chapter called The Jesus Masterclass On How To Treat Women.

Jim: Mm.

Brant: And there’s several things that he does.

Jim: Oh, give ’em to me.

Brant: It’s very honoring. Well, a- just an example, like, the, the Jairus, or Gyrus, I don’t know how you pronounce it. But he’s the head- He’s like, the head guy at the synagogue, so he’s a big shot important guy. His daughter’s sick. Jesus puts him on the back burner for a woman who wasn’t even supposed to be there…

John: Mm.

Brant: … in the crowd. Who’s bleeding. And is embarrassed and unclean. And Jairus and his retinue had to be like, “Wait. Her? Why?” He elevates her. You’re not supposed to do that in that culture. You don’t even do that in this culture very often, where you’re like, bump a woman who’s considered unclean above an important guy.

Or when he has- he’s at Mary and Martha’s, and Mary comes in and sits at his feet, or she’s in the living room sitting on the floor, probably they all were, with- That’s where the guys go. Like, I’ve been in cultures, if you travel…

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: There’s cultures where you don’t see the women of the house. They stay in the kitchen and they pass the food underneath a curtain where all the guys are sitting in the main room, or they have the kids bring out the food and set it down there.

Jim: Huh.

Brant: Mary’s, like, no, I’m going to learn from this man. He was doing something revolutionary by saying you’re welcome here, and this is a very good idea.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: Like, there’s a- there’s a- a million ways that Jesus subtly, and not so subtly, elevates women and respects them in a lot of ways that we just don’t even think about.

John: Hmm. Well, you’re hearing from Brant Hansen. Uh, he is our guest today on Focus on the Family, and uh, the book that forms the foundation for the conversation, uh, these past couple of days is called, The Men We Need: God’s Purpose for the Manly Man, the Avid Indoorsman, or Any Man Willing to Show Up.

Stop by the website, that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Or call 1-800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY and we’ll be happy to tell you more.

Jim: Brant, becoming a godly man is, uh, all wound up, I think, in point five, which is, um, choosing today who you want to become tomorrow.

Brant: Yeah.

Jim: I like that. Um, for the guys that are feel- feeling guilty right now, or maybe the wives that are listening, saying, “Oh, Bob’s not gonna like this.”

Brant: (laughs)

Jim: Um, there’s always tomorrow. I mean, the Lord gives you breath.

Brant: Right.

Jim: And you wanna wake up and do things better. So, speak to that idea of having a plan for correcting those things that aren’t tending the garden.

Brant: Here… well, here’s the plan, and I like that it’s hopeful, again, like you said. This isn’t about beating ourselves up because we failed and wha- like, we didn’t know sometimes. We didn’t know exactly what we were supposed to be doing at some times and we were also- we make mistakes.

Jim: Uh-uh.

Brant: The plan is this. You’re gonna become whatever you’re paying attention to right now.

Jim: Huh.

Brant: That’s it. What you pay attention to is who you’re gonna become. And you do pay attention- You pay to attend things. Your brain can sit and attend to this or that, but that’s shaping who you’re becoming.

Jim: Yeah. I think it was the late Larry Crab who we had on the program many times here at Focus who said “Line up a hundred men, watch them closely for a week. 70 or 80 of them will be ruled by a passion called ‘neediness.’”

Brant: That’s right.

Jim: What was he driving toward there? I think I get that, but wh- what’s the difference? What is the neediness that, that 80 percent are looking for, and what’s the opposite of that?

Brant: Still trying to achieve significance on their own.

Jim: Through…

Brant: Through whatever.

Jim: Get.. Uh, tick some off for me.

Brant: Something- Well, like, uh, a career achievement, money, uh, sex.

Jim: Cars.

Brant: Like… Yeah. Attractiveness.

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: Like, wh- it could be a m- a, a million different things, but like, that- they’re still not secure as men, it just comes bleeding out. Especially in a workplace environment where there’s like, why is this so competitive or fear based or something? Like, what th- It’s just a weird thing. It’s because people are still trying to… they’re, they’re still needy.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: And, to get to a point where y- again, you start paying attention to the right things. I’m talking about bringing the Lord into your mind, growing, listening to things that are wise, paying attention to wisdom. Like, being around the right things, paying attention to the right things, you will become a more secure person.

Jim: Yeah. You know, it’s so true. I- you know, so many, uh, wealthy people, wealthy men that I’ve met, they tend to- especially the non-Christian. I think Christians tend to do this better. Not perfectly, but better. Um, where they’ll- they’ll say, you know, I was aiming for that next deal, and I just told myself if I’ve got- if I get that next deal that’s gonna give me X amount of money, I’m done. I’ll be fine. And then what they find is when they get there, uh, it’s really the next deal.

Brant: Right.

Jim: It’s like a deal junkie. You know? They…

Brant: Right.

Jim: They’re never gonna have enough, it won’t be the perfect deal, therefore we’ve got to move to the next deal to get that satisfaction or that significance.

Brant: Or just- Or just needing complimented all the time…

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: … needing this for that- what- Here’s a wonderful thing that CS Lewis was talking about. He said you really have to watch when you’re younger, because you’re on a trajectory. So, a little attitude, he called it a grumble, if you’re a grumbly person when you’re 25, people are like, okay, well, that’s, you know, that’s all right. But you be- you’re on this trajectory. You wind up when you’re older, you become just a grumble.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: Like, we become more and more a caricature of what we’re fostering in our lives.

Jim: Interesting.

Brant: And it’s like I mentioned in the book, like, you, you will- If you’re off by one degree for a moon shot, you miss my moon by 3100 miles.

Jim: Right.

Brant: Because of the trajectory of things. So, that’s why I think a lot of older people, you can look at this person and say, man, he’s, he’s a saint. He listens. He offers wisdom. He’s, he- everybody just loves being around him. Or you s- can see the anger on somebody’s face. They become nothing but anger, and they’re, they’re at the grocery store hitting you with their shopping carts. It’s like, you become this extreme thing that you were fostering when you were younger.

Jim: You know, Brant, let me ask you this in the context of your old radio days doing a lot of political commentary. That’s an environment where, I mean, you c- you do get angry.

Brant: Yeah.

Jim: ‘Cause people seem like they’re not thinking. (laughs) I’ll be polite.

Brant: Right.

Jim: The word stupid comes to mind. But policies that are put in place. Kind of the things that aren’t helpful for the most people are put into place. And, I mean, you look at public education, all the things that are going on there, what’s being taught…

Brant: Absolutely. Right.

Jim: You can gin that anger up to where you’re really behaving as poorly as those you’re opposing.

Brant: Or here’s another thing that happens, and I think it’s more subtle. Especially I see this with older folks, and I’m getting to be one of those older folks.

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: We need you to be at peace. Like, we need you to be the voice of the family, or the voice of your neighborhood, the voice of your church, where you’re thinking in terms of the kingdom of God.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: But if you’re sitting there basting in propaganda, whatever the propaganda is, whatever the news is, whatever- If you’re watching that all the time, you’re not gonna be that person.

Jim: Mm.

Brant: And now we’re missing you. And people need older people with wisdom in the culture. But you’re not- you’re like, so awash in this stuff. And I know the news of the day is important. I know all this stuff i- It’s true. But, but we need somebody to offer some peace and a lack of anxiety. Instead, you’re anxious now because you’re sitting there, like, getting all ginned up.

Jim: Well, and I mean, yeah, I’m thinking nobody’s tending that garden.

Brant: Right? (laughs)

Jim: But we need to be Christian men and do the right things and do it with the right attitude

Brant: Well, this is- Uh, I’m taking a shot with writing this book. Like…

Jim: Yeah. You wrote the book, not me.

Brant: … I don’t know. I, I really don’t know beyond that-

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: Like, to try to explain it. I think this is God’s vision for us. I think women respond the way they do because they intuitively know it is.

John: Mm.

Brant: To be a keeper of the garden. To be a source of security. For the vulnerable around us. Your neighborhood should be safer just because you’re there.

Jim: Yeah. Let’s move to decision six. Uh, take responsibility for your own spiritual life. Seems right.

Brant: It is. It is.

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: It’s, it’s- But I was just looking at that chapter, I’d be like, okay, here we go, what’s the old, you need to do this and that. I- it’s actually good news. It’s not a guilt trip again for guys. I’m saying for a lot of guys, they associate spiritual, because our culture does this, with emotional. So, a lot of guys feel left out or they’ve done something wrong with God, they don’t even understand the whole thing, it doesn’t compute. If you’re more analytical. This can be for more analytical women, too. That’s definitely me. I don’t respond emotionally to a lot of stuff that other people do. Like, a certain song, everybody’s, wow, like- we went to the chorus and we modulated up, and now our hands are in the air.

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: Like, I’m sitting watching them, like, yeah, but they do that at the Journey concert, too. Like..

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: When they’ve modulated, they hit that chorus again. So, I’m always analyzing.

Jim: Right.

Brant: Maybe I’m too skeptical, and I- I’m- Okay. So, it’s- But what I’ve realized, reading the stories of people in the bible is, spiritual isn’t about emotions. Being spiritual is about loyalty.

Jim: Huh. Faithfulness.

Brant: Yeah. Faithfulness to God. You just keep showing up.

Jim: Yeah. That’s the fork in the road, as we’ve talked these last couple of days, that decision tree that’s always in front of us as guys. Do we look at this? You gotta say yes or no.

Brant: Yeah. Just, just-

Jim: You know, and loyalty and faithfulness is what should drive you to God.

Brant: And when you understand that, when guys understand that…

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: … we’re like, “I can do that.” Like, I…

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: I get it. Guys, this is part of, if you’re in the military, you have a job. Or like, to people around you. Like, I can keep showing up, but I- God deserves my believing loyalty.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: And that daily thing, where it’s like, I’m going to partner with God in life, like Abraham.

Jim: Brant, let’s wrap up right here. I mean, these are great concepts. I’m actually quite excited to talk to Trent and Troy about this.

Brant: Hm.

Jim: I don’t know if it’s going to be a drip irrigation or a Niagara Falls. I’ll have to make that…

Brant: (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Jim: You know, “We’re gonna sit down and read this book together. Let’s do it.” But the concepts are great. And the vision is so strong about being the Adam, tend the garden, protect Eve, protect the children, help the vulnerable. All the things that we’ve talked about these last couple of days.

But I, I am thinking of the guy who’s maybe in his 60s, maybe older, who is looking back, going, I really- it’s the first time I’ve really heard this.

Brant: Mm.

Jim: I did chase the money.

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I did go through two marriages. Whatever it might be. How would you encourage him? What, what would you say to him to pick up today and move forward?

Brant: It’s not too late. And, in fact, somebody repenting is what we’re talking about. Rethinking. Somebody who repents or rethinks, gets humble when they’re in their 60s…

Jim: Huh.

Brant: … or 70s? It’s more impressive.

Jim: It is.

Brant: Like, you’re willing to change now? My stepdad has done that a few times, and he’s in his 80s now.

Jim: Mm.

Brant: And he still will be like, you know, I thought about it, and, uh, wow. Like, I, I, I am so impressed. I- Just, all I can say to somebody who’s listening and going, “Well, I wish I would have thought about this before. I wish I would have had that idea before. But I didn’t think about that. I didn’t live that way.” All I can tell you is, much respect to you for saying, “But now I will.”

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: Just- I just- I just have tons of respect for that. So that’s all I have to tell you. (laughs)

Jim: You know, it- it’s interesting. I’m thinking of something someone once said to me about the Holy Spirit. That evidence of the Holy Spirit in a Christian’s life is a changed heart.

Brant: Yeah.

Jim: Changed actions. That’s the thing that really is the evidence.

Brant: And it’s continuing.

Jim: He was this, and he’s now this.

Brant: Right.

Jim: That’s a changed heart.

Brant: How impressive is that?! Where do you see that anywhere else in the world, where…

Jim: Right.

Brant: … mid 70s, like, g- you know what? I realize I gotta do this and now I’m gonna serve people in this way better.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: That, alone, makes me believe in God even more.

John: Mm.

Jim: Yeah. And it’s so good. Brant, you’ve done a wonderful job with this book, The Men We Need, and i- it- I think it is one of those resources that every dad A: Should digest, and every husband, to be able to be that garden tender, uh, and hopefully not miss the way Adam did miss.

Brant: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Jim: That’s the goal. And, uh, then to teach your sons what it means. You know, I hear from so many Christian parents who have daughters. I’ve not been blessed with a daughter.

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I wish I had one, but I don’t. But, how they say, where are the Christian guys that my- my daughter can marry?

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And that’s my job…

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … with two boys. I’ve gotta help prepare my sons to be the husband’s they need to be.

Brant: Yep.

Jim: And this is one of those resources.

Brant: Mm.

Jim: So, if you can, like we often do, if you can, uh, join us and be part of the ministry, make a gift of any amount. A monthly gift is best for us. That’s how John and I both do this with Focus.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: We support Focus monthly. Uh, but a one-time gift is good as well. Uh, we’ll send you the book as our way of saying thank you if you can support us that way.

If you can’t afford it, uh, we’ll get it in your hands as part of the ministry here at Focus On the Family. We believe in the content that much and what Brant has to say here. So, just ask for it and we’ll get it to you. And, uh, most importantly, apply it. And we’ll have a different world.

John: Contact us today and make a donation, as you can. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Brant, again, thank you so much for being with us. It’s always good to see you.

Brant: Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here. It’s funny, ’cause I’m so nervous. I host my own radio show and I come in here, like, ah, ah.

Jim: (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Jim: That’s actually quite funny.

John: (laughs) But we didn’t see any nervousness, and so…

Brant: Good. Good, good, good. Good.

John: I’m glad, uh, that you’ve joined us today as a viewer or a listener. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, I’m John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ.