Preview:

James Brown: The bottom line is that which leads me, and I know is the answer is the Word of God. I’ve got a number of friends, um, those that I do know, I should say, who aren’t believers, but carrying out the Great Commission is not a suggestion.

Jim Daly: Hmm.

James: It’s not an option.

Jim: Right.

James: God tells us that’s what we’re to do.
End of Preview

John Fuller: Well, that’s a familiar voice, James Brown, also known as JB, the host of The NFL Today on CBS. He really loves the Lord, as you can tell. And he’s gonna share his story with us today on this special edition of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.

Jim: John, it’s football season again, and you know my love for the game, and it’s my favorite sport. And this is a great time to break out a conversation that I had with James Brown not that long ago. It was a wonderful visit. He appreciates the ministry of Focus on the Family, and we admire the work he does on the set each week during the football season. It’s important to pray for him. I mean, he’s there, he’s got a spotlight, he’s got a platform, and you can hear in the interview we’re about to share with you just how much he loves the Lord and wants to make sure everybody around him knows about that.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And it’s a good thing. He’s a- a wonderful role model. He’s trying to live for Christ in everything he does, and you can’t help but admire this guy. As you’ll hear, his mom and dad had a profound impact in his life, and you’ll be hearing more about his family, including his grandfather, Milton. I love these stories where these people of prominence, now, they’ve made it, they point back to their grandfathers and grandmothers being so significant.

John: That is, uh, really encouraging, especially to the older audience members-

Jim: (laughs)

John: … who have grandkids. Uh, Jim, we’re gonna be featuring JB in our Sports and Faith Audio Collection. It’s a free download for you. We’ve got a number of great sports people, uh, in this collection, including Olympic gold medalist Scott Hamilton and, uh, NFL quarterback Kirk Cousins and others, and you can get that at our website.

Now, James is well known around the world for his coverage of the NFL. He’s a five-time Emmy Award winner, and he’s hosted the Super Bowl, a record-breaking 11 times. And what you might not know is that he’s also an ordained minister, and he enjoys speaking at churches and conferences. He’s been inducted into the broadcast wing of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, and, uh, we can go on and on, but let’s get to the conversation. Here he is with Focus President Jim Daly.

Jim: JB, it’s so good to have you here on Focus on the Family. Thank you for joining.

James: Jim, thank you very much. I mean, look, everyone knows who you are and what you’re about, and-

Jim: (laughs)

James: … I’m pleased-

Jim: No, everybody knows who you are.

James: Well, maybe two different spectrums, but we believe the same, so it’s all good.

Jim: Well, I love it. You know, I love the fact that you admire the Lord, that your heart is there for the Lord first and foremost. And it wasn’t always that way.

James: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But your mom was a person of faith and conviction, correct?

James: Yes, sir. And because you’ve done a zillion of these, you helped me to keep, uh, to track. And so I believe in putting it with headlines, a mother’s influence. A mother’s influence. My mother raised five of us. And I say my mother because my father, uh, I call him the Joseph in the Bible.

Jim: Huh.

James: He was the quiet one. He worked two and three jobs to provide-

Jim: My goodness.

James: … for the five of us.

Jim: Yeah.

James: My mother always wanted to stay home, Jim, to be an excellent homemaker, and she exceeded that desire-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … with the five of us. Four boys, one girl, I’m the oldest of five. And it was mom’s influence because even I recall in elementary school when I was walking to school, to the elementary school about three or four blocks away, I would hear a gentleman on the program. I think his name was Jim Eaton. His last name was Eaton. And it was a little five-minute sermonette that I would hear that was planted in me at that early age, but we were not people of faith going to church. Fast-forward, later in life, in a different neighborhood altogether, probably in my teens, my mother was the one who took us to church. And that’s when we became-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … exposed to the Word of God. So yes, I am a man of God because after I got cut, and probably I’m leaving some things out here.

Jim: Yeah. (laughs) No, we’re gonna get to all that.

James: After I got, you know … And okay, you know what? And you’ll take me back through that.

Jim: (laughs)

James: But that was a circumstance when I realized I was living an empty life after not realizing my dream of playing professional basketball. You played football, so you know all about it. And I remember coming home one night late and asking the Lord when I realized that going to all of these so-called happy hours, and there’s not much really associated with a happy hour being a happy hour.

Jim: Right.

James: I said, “Lord, I’ve heard of you, but I don’t know you. If you would reveal yourself to me, I’ll serve you.”

Jim: Let me- let me ask you in that regard, how old were you when that happened?

James: I was, uh, 20, about 23, 24.

Jim: Yeah?

James: I’ve been cut by the Atlanta Hawks.

Jim: Yeah.

James: And, um, and again, my b- my ball-playing buddies who, you know, we weren’t saved, although we went to Catholic school-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … um, I just realized that that lifestyle had nothing of substance there.

Jim: Yeah. I wanna come back to that in a moment.

James: Okay. Yes, sir.

Jim: But I do wanna-

James: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … celebrate moms because my mom was an awesome mom as well. She’s- she accepted Christ the day before she died. But her life was good. I mean, she was humorous. She worked three jobs. My dad and she, uh, divorced when I was five. So she was working two, three jobs just because we are five kids, but I’m at the other end of the birth order. I’m the last born. You’re the firstborn.

James: Yes, sir.

Jim: You know, Dr. Kevin Leman talks about that. And I wanted to ask you about that when I was reading through your history, your background.

James: Mm-hmm.

Jim: That firstborn, I’m so glad I wasn’t one. (laughs) But you are Mr. Responsible in that position. How- how did that work with your siblings? A- a- what are their ages from you? And then did you assume some of that sense of responsibility as a young guy?

James: Yeah. You know what? And I’m not the best at this, but, uh, there were … Of the five kids, there was probably a span of about eight years from the oldest made to the youngest.

Jim: All right. But not- not many years.

James: Not many years. But to your point, there was a responsibility there because they looked up to me.

Jim: Right.

James: Fast-forward to now, uh, I’m the oldest at age 74 now. My sister, uh, was in the middle. We’re the last two-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … of five.

Jim: Oh, wow.

James: All of my younger brothers have since passed.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

James: But this was with a renewed, saved mindset in the last 15, 20 years, more, more than that.

Jim: Yeah.

James: Where I tried to make certain that I was imparting the truth of Jesus Christ to them, that they would walk in it. My youngest brother battled the drug demon for 38 years.

Jim: Wow. I’m so sorry.

James: And so he was so much younger than me, and I didn’t realize the lifestyle that he was engaged in because I was so much older, pursuing a different path. But of course, when I came back home and could do that, there was nothing that more for me to do than to ensure that he had a relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and he did.

The people at Keswick told him the only book … Because he wanted to bring Tony Evans tapes and books-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … everything else. They say, “No, the only book that you’ll be bringing is the Bible.”

Jim: Yeah.

James: And when he came out, he was totally cleaned and healed. And even though he had challenges health-wise from the lifestyle down the stretch of his life, doing an interview with Tony Evans, he wound up having a leg amputated, he had four or five different medical morbidities, yet he said he was free.

Jim: Yeah. Wow. Isn’t that an interesting statement?

James: And so to know that each of my brothers-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … had a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, I’m pleased.

Jim: Yeah. So you have one sister.

James: Yes.

Jim: (laughs) Oh, man. She-

James: The smartest in the family.

Jim: Was she the youngest?

James: Uh, she was the middle.

Jim: Middle. Oh, okay.

James: Middle. And she was a corporate executive. She worked for three Fortune 50, Fortune 100 companies. She was the lead HR person in each of those companies, reporting directly to the president. She’s awesome and a steady influence in our family.

Jim: That’s great. Your dad, uh, took him a long time to come to Christ, but he was a good man.

James: Oh, he was the Joseph in the Bible, the quiet, when mom was the homemaker raising us. She said the mantra in our family is that we all have a spirit of excellence and there’s no excuse for not applying yourself where the elements of perspiration and inspiration were evident in what we did. That was mom. So she ran a household like that. She was no nonsense but extremely loving. I called her the sergeant-

Jim: (laughs)

James: … not to her face, but that was a nickname for mom at 5’5″, uh, whatever her weight was, but she carried a big stick figuratively.

Jim: Yeah.

James: And literally, my father worked the three jobs to provide for us. And you shared something with me-

Jim: That’s amazing.

James: … in our conversation before we started this. I didn’t realize it until maybe 20, 25 years ago when my sister told me that my father had a deathbed conversion.

Jim: Oh, that’s beautiful.

James: So I am thrilled to see how God continued to display Himself to us the influence. And when the priests were performing the last rites, my father confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. So I’m thrilled.

Jim: That- and it’s beautiful to tie that knot-

James: Yes.

Jim: … of faith-

James: Yes.

Jim: … within the family.

James: Absolutely.

Jim: And I have a very similar story with my dad’s, uh, last days. He was volunteering at a church. He struggled with alcoholism and all those things, but, uh, my mom held it together and all five of the kids, us kids, became Christians over about 30 years. So that’s a very shared-

James: We do have a shared story.

Jim: … um, journey we have there.

Let me ask you, your grandfather, Barnes is an interesting guy. Um, a businessman, entrepreneur.

James: Yes.

Jim: Tell me about him and where he lived. And this shows you the- the- kind of the cascading effect of generations, you know, things that … Your dad or mom? He was on your dad’s side?

James: On my mom’s side.

Jim: On your mom’s side.

James: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So those things that you learn, uh, you- the- your mom learning it as a little girl from Grandpa Barnes, and then how did that come into the family? So describe Grandpa Barnes.

James: And I probably need to do a bit more history, um, searching in our family to connect all the dots, but suffice it to say that on my mother’s side of the family, my grandfather, Milton Barnes, and there is, um, if you will, uh, a historical society there in Hattiesburg, Mississippi-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … where you can see that most people when they think of Hattiesburg, if they’re thinking sports, they think of Brett Favre, um, of NFL fame, et cetera. And I remember doing a, uh, prayer breakfast there to speak, uh, in Hattiesburg, and I called Brett Favre, who wasn’t a Christian at the time, and I said, “Brett, you’re the best-known name here. Would you, you know, do me the honors of coming and, uh, giving the opening prayer at the prayer breakfast there?” And he ran. He was sweating bullets. He says, “JB, I know nothing about it.” I said, “Brett, trust me.” But he didn’t, but I understand that down the stretch now, his life, he is walking the faith, and I’m so extremely thrilled.

Jim: Yeah.

James: But my father, my grandfather, he was the businessman on the other side of the railroad tracks in segregated Hattiesburg, Mississippi.

Jim: Hmm.

James: And, um, so, and he only had, I believe, it was an eighth-grade education, but he had a lot of the businesses there. He built homes on the other side of the tracks for the Black families there.

Jim: Wow.

James: He had a nightclub that was a part of what we know in- in worldly society, it was part of what they called the, even though the word is more accurately pronounced, chitterling, we say chitlins. So he was on the Chitlin Circuit with a club called the Hi-Hat nightclub, all the old Black acts that people who were musically inclined-

Jim: Yeah, B.B. King.

James: B.B. King, they were the best of friends. As a matter of fact, when the governor of Mississippi was giving B.B. King, not too- too long ago, a commendation, uh, from the governor, um, my grandfather was still alive. They sent a car to bring him there to celebrate him because my grandfather had him, quote unquote as they call it in the vernacular, “He played my club,” you know, when he was coming up the ranks. Ike & Tina Turner, Bobby “Blue” Bland, Moms Mabley, all those names, James Brown-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … they all played in the Hi-Hat nightclub. But my grandfather was also in church on Sundays. I’ll have to examine this to understand better.

Jim: Yeah.

James: Because- because he was good with numbers, he made certain that everything was financially in order for the church, and he brought Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. there towards the end of his life when he came to Hattiesburg for the purpose of registering the Black folks there to vote.

Jim: Yeah.

James: And Dr. King was to be heading not much longer after that to Memphis, Tennessee to support the, um, refuse workers’, the garbage workers’-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … strike there. Uh, and when he was coming to Hattiesburg, uh, unfortunately, the Klan knew that he was coming there, the Ku Klux Klan, and they wanted to do harm to him. So my uncle, my grandfather’s son, he drove a decoy vehicle going to pick up-

Jim: My goodness.

James: … my grandfa- uh, mi- pick up Dr. King while the- the car that was to be picking him up went a different route to get him. And they did see a bunch of pickup trucks following the decoy vehicle thinking that they had him. The church service was to be at 8:00 that evening. It did not commence until 11:00 PM-

Jim: Wow.

James: … as they, the decoy cars and the car driving Dr. King went a circuitous route to get to the church with deacons on top of the roof, walking with shotguns, noticing a bunch of cars that were not familiar to the neighborhood, riding around looking for Dr. King. The service, the meeting started at 11:00 PM and not a soul left. And my, uh, aunt was, uh, one of the ones who was working at the elections office as well. So a little bit of history in terms of, uh, that existing in my family. Yes.

Jim: That’s amazing.

James: Yeah, it is.

Jim: A little bit of history, for sure.

James: A little bit of history. He had a baseball team appropriately called the Hattiesburg Black Sox that all the old Negro leaguers used to go through there, whether it was Hank Aaron, uh, Jim “Mudcat” Grant, Satchel Paige.

Jim: Satchel Paige.

James: It’s- it’s amazing how much history is associated with … Yeah.

Jim: I saw Hank Aaron play when I was a kid.

James: Did you? Good man.

Jim: I mean, that’s amazing.

James: Good man. Loved him.

Jim: Yeah, good man.

James: Got to know him. Yeah.

Jim: Let me ask you, JB, since we’re tipping this way now into the issue of racial tension.

James: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Jim: Um, you know, we talked off mic. I- I spent some of elementary school in Compton, California.

James: Mm-hmm.

Jim: It was probably a third or maybe a little more, maybe 50- 50% Black and the- the other half was Hispanic and poor white kids, et cetera, which we qualified for. But it gave me really an insight into community, that community.

James: Mm.

Jim: And we … You know, my mom was great. We always were taught respect. It, you know, it’s just the way it is. We’re all in this boat together. And in that regard, when you look at what’s happening or what has happened, there have been some great gains-

James: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Jim: … uh, for the Black community in the United States, but there’s still so much work to do. How do we come together a little more? Not that, you know, this is the $100-million question.

James: Mm-hmm.

Jim: What could be done? You have become so successful, and it’s awesome in what you do as a sportscaster. And- and I just think, you know, that’s the greatness of the country, that both of us, coming from where we came from, white and Black-

James: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … can do something quite admirable, hopefully.

James: We can. And I’m so glad that you had that experience early on to see the common thread-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … that we all shared and still do. You and I both know, and I’m not gonna try to claim to be the expert, uh, sociologist and the like, but Jim Daly, it is the Word of God. I’ve come to that understanding. I shared with you how I have many friends in the faith. I’m humbled to be an ordained minister. And I’ll tell people, yes, what I do in terms of my avocation in the world of sports or being a special correspondent for CBS News, that is my avocation.

My vocation is about the Word of God, one of the reasons why amongst the many friends that I have and preachers, teachers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ have the same attitude. God’s Word supersedes all. Yes, the Bible is clear in terms of what our responsibilities are in a governmental sense, being up under the care of those appointed by God. There’s a civil responsibility, if you will, a governmental responsibility, but there’s also the biblical responsibility which supersedes all if there’s ever a conflict. The bottom line is that which leads me, and I know is the answer is the Word of God.

I’ve got a number of friends, um, those that I do know, I should say, who aren’t believers, but carrying out the Great Commission is not a suggestion.

Jim: Hmm.

James: It’s not an option.

Jim: Right.

James: God tells us that’s what we’re to do. So I try to model that. I don’t go around beating people over the head with the Bible. I try to model it. Many people may give the credit to Saint Francis of Assisi or others who are credited with this, uh, expression. Um, many people prefer to see a good sermon before they hear a good sermon.

Jim: Yeah.

James: So I try to walk the talk, even in my avocation. And I don’t seek this responsibility because I don’t wanna come off like I am the pure authority, you know, moral authority in any given environment, but I do try to walk the talk.

Jim: Yeah.

James: And the company has approached me on a number of occasions over the years to give commentaries because now the intersection between sports and culture is definite.

Jim: Yeah.

James: It’s always been, but many people have always tried to keep the two separate, and I don’t ever see that as having been the case when we look at the history of our company- country and the kinds of pulls and- and friction that we see this there. It’s been there for so long. I just don’t want people to run away from it. When they say certain things in our history are too graphic or the like to talk about, there’s nothing more graphic than to look at the horrific, ignominious, painful death that our Lord and Savior suffered where His visage was not even recognizable. That’s there for us to understand what our Lord sacrificed while we were yet sinners because He loved us. So yeah, we’ve got some serious challenges, but if God came here and He did-

Jim: Mm.

James: … to reconcile us back unto Him, the ministry of reconciliation back to God the Father, who are we to run away from those issues? Many people don’t wanna hear. They call it the separation of church and state. There’s no such thing-

Jim: Right.

James: … as a separation of church and state. The Word of God is our God. Does that make sense, Jim? I know I’m-

Jim: Oh, it makes sense, and I’m sitting here going, “Preach it, brother.”

James: Well, but that’s-

Jim: I mean, you were on it.

James: I love doing that, you know?

Jim: And it’s good.

James: I love doing that, and I’ve been humbled to have friends across the spectrum in the faith area, and that excites me. But I wanna make sure that I’m always standing on the Word of God.

Jim: Yeah.

James: And yes, you can see me getting excited.

Jim: (laughs)

James: People say, “Oh, I can tell when the Holy Spirit has kinda grabbed you,” but it’s not to preach at you or talk down to you.

Jim: Yeah.

James: It’s with passion to express the love of our Lord and Savior Jesus.

Jim: Amen. You know, when I watch you, you- you and Tony Dungy, your good friend and certainly a friend that I’ve had on the broadcast before, both of you have such impeccable grace toward others. I’ve learned that from both of you, just watching you, you know, being able to treat people with such respect and kindness, and it comes through. I would think just about anybody watching you on the NFL show on CBS will go, “He just seems like such a great guy.” But thank you for doing that as a believer to be that kind of person, to be kind, to be loving, to be caring. So often-

James: Can I just say thank you for that? Because Jim-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … what I attempt to do is to, in a winsome fashion-

Jim: Yes.

James: … present by the example or in the proper setting and to put a button on the commentaries that I’ve delivered, whether it was on promotional opportunities for men of color and women in the world of sports. Please, everyone is given a gift. Prayer for those who know the Word, for the benefit of the whole, Ephesians 4:16, “Every joint supplies for the fervent effectual working of the whole body until we all come into unity of the faith.” That is powerful. But the way I have closed out each of those commentaries, whether it was on promotional opportunities, whether it was women in the C-suite, whether it was on social justice, um, whether it was on the way that we carry ourselves, all of them have closed with a statement that 1 Corinthians 13:1-8, which we know is the love chapter, “Love overcomes all.”

Jim: I- I wanna ask you this question because it’s a scripture that I just … You know, you hold all of Scripture close to your heart, but there are some that just grab you because of your own life experience. The scripture in Psalms, it talks about “He’s close to the brokenhearted and saves those crushed in spirit.” Someone once told me it’s like a prerequisite-

James: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … that the Holy Spirit is looking for that brokenness because what that brokenness does for us as human beings is humbles us, and it’s a lot easier (laughs) to work with a humble person than an arrogant person. And then you look at, you know, the- the arrogant believer, if I could refer to it that way, that it’s competition, it’s to win, it- it- there’s something just off, you know, it isn’t quite right. And it’s always caught my attention. You know, the New Testament, there’s two billboards, salvation through Christ and Christ alone, and don’t become a Pharisee, in my mind. But we have this easy proclivity to fall into looking down on other people. Why is this?

James: Human nature. The heart-

Jim: Human nature.

James: The heart of man is desperately wicked.

Jim: Yeah.

James: And unless we submit ourselves to the Word of God, to following the example of Jesus, we too can fall into that same trap. The way we learn more about the Word, humbly, I think, is to study and understand and properly exegete God’s Word on a daily basis because you’ve heard the old expression, “The more you study God’s Word, the more you see in it. And the more you see in it, the more you see in it.”

John: That’s James Brown talking about the great depth of truth he’s found in Scripture in his visit with Jim recently. And we’re gonna continue with part two next time here on Focus on the Family.

Jim: What a powerful conversation, John. I just thoroughly enjoyed it. We heard how the steady influence of a faithful mother, uh, the example of a hardworking dad, and the responsibility of being the oldest child helped shape JB’s heart for God and for other people. Uh, it’s a- it’s a wonderful and very encouraging testimony.

We also heard his conviction that true reconciliation in our homes, in our communities, and across the culture, uh, begins with the Word of God and is lived out through the love of Jesus Christ. If you’ve, uh, ever wondered whether your example matters, JB’s story reminds us that it does.

John: Mm-hmm. And, uh, that conversation with him is included in our “Sports and Faith Audio Collection.” It’s a free download when you sign up, and it includes, uh, John Smoltz, Bernhard Langer, uh, Olympic gold medalist Scott Hamilton, and NFL quarterback Kirk Cousins. In fact, here’s a quick taste of some of the content in this free audio collection.

Scott Hamilton: I saw so many people become self-destructive in their grief, and I saw that loss destroy families. And I realized that I didn’t have to lose her. I could take her with me every single day to the ice, and I could be accountable to her, and I could honor every single sacrifice she made for me by being the person- skater that she always dreamed I could be.

Kirk Cousins: You have to trust God’s plan for your life, and you have to believe that He has a plan. And so that’s when He, again, reiterated Proverbs 3:5-6, “Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Don’t lean on your understanding.” My understanding said that I couldn’t play college football, but don’t lean on your understanding. “In all your ways, acknowledge Him, trust Him, walk with Him, and He will direct your steps.” And so my job was to trust and obey, and it was God’s job to steer the ship.

Jim: Well, and John, Kirk Cousins, he’s trusting that more and more. He’s been ping-ponging a little bit between teams.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So he’s gotta be trusting the Lord’s plan for him right now-

John: Right, right.

Jim: … at the- kind of toward the end of his career, but he’s still playing, and, uh, he’s a wonderful human being, which is far more important than what a great quarterback he’s been.

Uh, through the years, we’ve had some great conversations with some of these athletes and others in the sports world, and there are some really inspirational messages about faith, family, dedication, and the discipline of being good at a sport. Uh, some of the other names in the collection are Darryl Strawberry, the great baseball player, Darrell Waltrip, uh, the NASCAR driver. He was great. One time, he and I were, uh, golfing together, and I said, “Darrell, I think I could have driven a NASCAR race car.” And he goes, “Oh, yeah? Why?” “‘Cause I could do 230 on the straight.”

John: (laughs)

Jim: He goes, “We don’t get paid for the straights.”

John: Oh.

Jim: “We get paid for the curves, right?” (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Jim: “You gotta keep that car right on the edge of breaking into the wall every turn.” And, uh, man, what a perspective, right? That’s kinda like life.

John: He was- he was so unusual and interesting and phenomenal at this point.

Jim: And upbeat.

John: Yeah.

Jim: He was such a, and is such a great inspiration. So sign up. It’s free, and it’s a perfect resource for the sports enthusiast, and it will strengthen your faith.

John: Yeah, we’re talking about the “Sports and Faith Audio Collection,” and you can find it at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: And John, let me add, you know, Focus is listener-supported, and it takes a big lift financially to bring you wonderful guests and great content here on the broadcast every single day. So please consider a monthly gift or a one-time gift to help us, uh, provide this content to people. I think last year alone, uh, Focus, uh, was able to identify 173,000 rededications to Christ or first-time decisions for Christ. Be part of it. Let’s put these people out there that have achieved great things, and then also, more importantly, their testimonies of being believers in Jesus. Help us put that out so even more can come to Him.

John: Yeah, the number to donate is 800-232-6459. 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, or donate online and, uh, get that free “Sports and Faith Audio Collection” at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

And thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. On behalf of the entire team, I’m John Fuller, inviting you back for the continuation of the conversation with James Brown, as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

**********

Part 2:

Preview:

James Brown: I don’t go around trying to, and I said this earlier, to beat people over the head with a Bible, but we are to share the love of Christ lovingly, truthfully, and winsomely.

Jim Daly: Yeah.

James: Our job is to tell it. The receiver’s job is to receive it and believe it. One plants a seed, another waters, but God gives the increase.

End of Preview

John Fuller: That is right from the heart of James Brown, the host of The NFL Today on CBS. And we’ll have the continuation of a conversation with him today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.

Jim: You know, John, even in that clip, you can hear, uh, James’s dedication to wordsmithing. He’s very deliberate with the words he chooses and delivers them in such a great way. And he does that with sports, but more importantly, he does that with his faith in Christ. And it was wonderful hearing about JB’s family last time and his love of Scripture. The time went by so quickly. You know you’re having a good time when that happens. We have more to share today about his pursuit of a basketball career. That was his passion, not football.

John: Mm.

Jim: Uh, but more importantly, his pursuit of a committed relationship with the Lord. He is a theologian, which is amazing. I really enjoyed my time with him in Washington, DC. We taped that remotely at a good friend’s home there in Georgetown. And we’re gonna be featuring that conversation in our “Sports and Faith Audio Collection” as well. I’ve talked to a number of athletes and sports media icons through the years, and you can hear their stories. It’s all free. We just want you to hear their testimony in Christ. And there are some big names in there.

John: There are. Uh, Scott Hamilton, Bernhard Langer, uh, Kirk Cousins, Darrell Waltrip, Darryl Strawberry.

Jim: Yeah. (laughs)

John: We have had so many great guests come through that are really excellent athletes. And you can sign up to get the free “Sports and Faith Audio Collection” when you stop by our website, focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Let’s go ahead and jump back into the conversation now with James Brown on today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

Jim: Let me, let me roll us back a little bit-

James: Okay.

Jim: … to sports. And that’s your world.

James: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I mean, i- it’s not who you are, it’s what you do, but it, it’s what you’ve done for a long time. You were a big time, uh, basketball player.

James: Mm-hmm.

Jim: High school champ and all those things. And I just wanna talk about FCA, Fellowship Christian Athletes is how I came to Christ.

James: Mm.

Jim: And, you know, I had a wonderful football coach who took an interest in me without my mom and dad as an orphan kid at that point-

James: Mm.

Jim: … in high school living with my brother. But he just loved on me. And I will always have a place in my heart for football coaches.

James: Mm.

Jim: ‘Cause there’s so many good men-

James: Yes.

Jim: That are trying to help these young boys become men.

James: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And Paul Moro did that for me. That was your experience too. And that’s, in my opinion, what’s make, what makes sports so good spiritually for these men and women, boys and girls.

James: The impact of a coach on an athlete’s life in its fulsome sense is undeniable. Many times you’ll hear people, when you ask questions about their background, they will often reference clearly the influence of their parents, positive or negative, a pastor, a coach is almost without fail going to be mentioned if they were involved in sports. Even if it was recreationally.

My mother and father set the example. My father with his death bed conversion, most importantly, and how he provided for his family as you said, working two and three jobs routinely.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

James: My mother, wanting to be the excellent homemaker that she was, and she was. But leading the path and when- I don’t know whether who was it, was it Jacob who wrestled with the angel?

Jim: Yeah. Israel.

James: My mother, and yeah, I don’t know whether my mother doing the wrestling or the angel was wrestling with my mom, but when she became saved, we had no choice.

Jim: Yeah.

James: And we’re glad of it because she led us through that process. But my high school coach, he had to carry on what my mother and father had set as foundational imprints in our lives. And my high school coach, Morgan Wootten, one of the finest coaches as read our back of basketball fame, John Wooden-

Jim: Wow.

James: … of college basketball fame. Um, Dean Smith, God bless him, they said he was the finest coach on any level. And here is what the foundation is. It’s a long story. We’ll talk about it later-

Jim: No. Yeah.

James: … but the synopsis is this. He told us, “Number one was God. Number two was family. Number three was school. Number four was basketball.”

Jim: Wow.

James: Fourth, Jim Daly, we never ever heard him utter a profanity.

Jim: Mm.

James: He went into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as the first coach to be inducted who only did his work at the high school level.

Jim: Wow.

James: He was the winningest-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … high school basketball coach in the country. Number two, he then went into the Naismith Foundation Hall of Fame as the greatest high school coach of the 20th century.

Jim: Yeah.

James: And he never, ever uttered a profanity. He always focused and he walked the Word of God without beating us over the head. He was the one who walked the talk. But I’ll close it with this. So I went to Harvard and here I got over 150 athletic scholarships to go to these great schools. My parents certainly couldn’t have afforded it, but they always said, “Get the best education. That’s the foundation stone for success in life.” So I said I wanted to go to Harvard, not realizing they were gonna have to pay on their meager income-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

James: … and take out loans for me to go to Harvard, but that’s what they said and they made it happen. And I am forever thankful for that.

Jim: You know, uh, last year, we do survey work every year for the listeners, and thankfully we have millions of people that, that listen to Focus on the Family and, you know, like watch CBS NFL, right?

James: Yeah.

Jim: I think you have a few more. But, uh-

James: I’m not sure, but whatever-

Jim: But the-

James: … few I wanna do-

Jim: But the-

James: … be impactful.

Jim: But the point of this is when we do the survey work last year, 179,000 people said, “Focus was the organization that helped lead me to the Lord.” So I think in the last few minutes here, JB, as we talk about it, I love your sympathy that we’re only human. You’ve said that a couple times, that we’re sinners saved by grace. Sometimes we lose that, especially in the Christian community. And we put a lot of expectations on our children because, you know, we’re probably 35, 40. We’ve been walking with the Lord for 10, 15, 20 years. And then we expect our children to be right there with us. But they’ve gotta walk their journey as well.

And I think in that regard, when you look at even your story about your daughter and, uh, you know, tough decisions that were being made then, um, speak to that parenting situation because I think there are gonna be people hearing you and watching you now that it will help them, A, to consider Christ as their Savior, and B, to make wise decisions then so that you’re 30, 40 years from that point, you can rest, that your soul is at peace because right things were decided. Speak to your daughter’s situation.

James: Oh, well, in terms of my daughter’s situation who, you know, I had out of wedlock, and I remember a gentleman at the University of Michigan who was an associate athletic director who made such a distinct and lifelong impact on all of the great athletes, uh, who were there, including Tom Brady, Desmond Howard, et cetera, et cetera. Um, a believer who had a definitive impact on all of those athletes, helping to prepare them for the game of life.

And I’m not sure how much he may have been impacting him with the Word, but I know when I thought about my daughter and when I think about my daughter, and again, I had her out of wedlock with my high school sweetheart who I thought I was gonna marry, was not saved. And certainly in my mind, I would not have objected because I didn’t know Christ if she said that she wasn’t gonna have a child if we weren’t going to get married. And I went back and asked her not too, too long ago, “Why did you not have an abortion?” And she simply said- and does it get any clearer and more impactful than this?

Jim: Mm-hmm.

James: Her words, not mine, “I did not want to kill my child.”

Jim: Mm.

James: I had no other questions from there. And while I am humbled to have been asked to speak on a number of different platforms and to preach the Word of God, which I love, our friend, Greg Oliver, had extended invitations where people who run pregnancy centers were asking if I would come and talk to the women who were there, trying to encourage them to keep the baby.

I understand this is a political hot potato that many people stay away from this. The truth of the matter is, based on what my ex said and how she viewed it, and the beautiful 43-year-old daughter that I have now who’s married to a wonderful Christian man-

Jim: Mm.

James: … with four beautiful Christian kids who are all in Christian schools, I know that I know. And with respect to those invitations, while I can certainly give a male’s perspective, I asked my daughter to go with me.

Jim: Oh, that’s great.

James: And one of the reasons was because of a father-daughter show that we did on television where the host asked me if I would bring my daughter, knowing that she was a child out of wedlock, who I supported 1,000% have and always will. Even being married, though, my role is a secondary one because when two get married in the Bible, they become one.

So I play an augmenting role and love what I’m doing with my grandkids, but I ask her to come on this TV show with me, and I, and this was live, and the host asked her, and I wasn’t prepared for this myself, I was trying to prepare my daughter, he asked her, “What was it like growing up in a family where your father wasn’t there knowing that you were had out of wedlock?” Kinda looked to see what she was gonna say.

Jim: Mm.

James: And she simply said, “My father has always loved my mother. He never spoke one ill word. He supported me and her to the nth degree until I got married, and I have nothing but love for my father and how he honored and loved and loves my mother.”

Jim: That’s beautiful.

James: So, Jim Daly, you know me well enough to know, I don’t go around trying to, and I said this earlier, to beat people over the head with a Bible, but we are to share the love of Christ lovingly, truthfully, and winsomely.

Jim: Yeah.

James: If I understand the Word correctly, and I know you do, so please correct me, where it says, “Our job is to tell it. The receiver’s job is to receive it and believe it. One plants a seed, another waters, but God gives the increase.” So for me, with my grandkids, um, where it says a good man provides for his children’s children, I still add that responsibility until the day that the good Lord calls me home. And I hope that people…

I respect whatever decision other people want to make. That’s their life decision to make. So please just respect where I’m coming from. I don’t go around castigating anybody, beating them over the head, bringing doom and gloom on them. I simply present the truth.

Jim: Yeah.

James: And it’s a choice that all of us have to make. Deuteronomy 30:19 is pretty clear with that, where God is what, speaking through Moses, when He says, “I present before you this day, I call heaven and earth to record or record this day, your choice. I present to you life or death, blessings and cursings.” And He gives us the answer to the test when He says, “Choose life.”

Jim: (laughs) Right.

James: It’s a choice that we make.

Jim: Right.

James: God doesn’t condemn; we condemn ourselves. And I pray that people will just receive the wonderful loving intent that is being shared, but it’s all of us who has a choice to make. Does that make sense, Jim?

Jim: Oh, yeah. And I think, you know, what it demonstrates is the idea. And what we should be full of as Christians is the attitude that we were forgiven much, that we know we’re forgiven much, that we’re not perfect people, and Christ died for our sins. So why would you hold somebody else to a different standard, including your child?

Some of the best stories, JB, I’ve heard at Focus are in this area where Christian families, you know, going to church on Sunday, their 17-year-old daughter gets pregnant, and now it’s a, a catastrophe and they’ve got to deal with it. But I think when it comes to life, and I know you share this, God doesn’t make mistakes. Your daughter is not a mistake.

James: Absolutely not.

Jim: Think of her life and the grandkids and somehow God shapes all of that into good. Like Romans 8:28 says, “All things work for good.” Are you serious? But in that moment, the dads are furious, the moms are bewildered. What do we do? And it’s not what we’re aiming for, of course not. We want what’s best, but man, God will take your mess and make it better, make it His mess. And that’s what we want.

JB, before we get away, I do wanna hear that story of how you came to Christ, because we didn’t capture that yet. What was it? You know, obviously, you had your daughter out of wedlock, you mentioned. How long after did you come to Christ? What started you in a faith trajectory?

James: In as succinct a fashion as I can, after being cut by the Atlanta Hawks, and I did get a chance the following year when Red Auerbach, God bless him, asked me to come to trial for the Boston Celtics, and I was again the last person cut.

Jim: Mm.

James: So I knew that I was gonna go and pursue a career, although he, Red Auerbach, wanted me to go overseas to polish my game a little bit and come back and play in the NBA. I said, “No, you know, my parents worked hard for me to take advantage of this opportunity. Let’s go start in a game of life.”

Jim: Mm.

James: But while I was home sulking the first year after being cut by the Atlanta Hawks, hiding in the house for two weeks away from my friends who were like, “JB didn’t make it in the NBA, you’re kidding me.”

Jim: Mm.

James: But examining as I shared with you the reasons why, and when I examined my own heart and realized what I didn’t do and the life mantra, work ethic that I have. Whereas in corporate America, they give you principles, if you will, to follow to be successful in corporate America. For me, they have to have a foundation in Scripture. And in Scripture, when I examine myself, 2 Corinthians 13:5 says, “To examine yourself, to make certain you’re walking in the faith.” I wasn’t there at that point clearly when I was asking Jesus into my life. I’m tooling and my little Corvette-

Jim: (laughs)

James: … coming home late one night after the nightclub, a lifestyle for those several months of going to the nightclub and realizing that was not the answer.

Jim: Mm.

James: And it’s late at night and I simply asked the Lord, I said, “Uh, I know of you, but I don’t know you. If you will reveal yourself to me, I will serve you.”

Jim: Great prayer.

James: But check this out. The very next week, I get an invitation from some of my buddies, uh, ex-athletes to go to yet another house party, a pajama party.

Jim: Yeah.

James: I’m 24 years of age.

Jim: (laughs)

James: A pajama party?

Jim: Right.

James: But I go, and the moment I walk through the door, I realize clearly I don’t belong here.

Jim: Mm. Conviction.

James: And when I was heading home after the pajama party, boy, you… “Hey, it is who I am. You pull these things out of me, so I’m blaming you for it,” okay, getting, getting emotional about it, but it’s-

Jim: Mm.

James: … it speaks to the depth of that question to the Lord. ‘Cause on my way home, I said, “I am so sorry. I feel like I’ve committed high treason just last week asking you to reveal yourself to me. And what do I do? I go to a pajama party. It certainly isn’t honoring of you.” And that began effectively a 12-year search with my mother leading the five of us through the church route to finally be settled into a good Word teaching church headed by an ex-Tuskegee airman-

Jim: Oh, my.

James: … by the name of Bishop Clarence Givens, who taught the Word of God. I, I went to many a sermon where it was emotional, got me shouting, but after I left out of church, if somebody asked me, “What was the sermon about?” I couldn’t tell you.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

James: I just say it was, it was emotional, it was good. Bishop Givens taught the Word of God, and everyone who was up under his tutelage for the years that he was ministering has the same testimony to make. And that’s where I came to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and gave my life to Christ, committed myself to the walk with Him-

Jim: Mm.

James: … trained up under Bishop Givens, became a director, co-director with my wife, Dorothy, of the youth ministry. My wife, Dorothy, is another whole story.

Jim: (laughs)

James: That’s a whole story there, who grasped the Word quicker-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … more deeply and committed than me, and your boy is now a well-trained husband.

Jim: Yeah. Yeah, that’s good.

James: Okay. But that led me down a path that I’m on and have continued on since. Does that make sense?

Jim: Totally beautiful.

James: Yeah.

Jim: And what I love is, um, you know, I, I … People can complicate their spiritual journey, their faith in Christ, but the way you describe that pajama party, it was like the Holy Spirit was already present in your heart. It was happening, right? And that was that conviction that you had, because you could have done that a month before, you could have gone to the party and been driving home in your ‘vette and not think twice, maybe a little pain, but, you know, okay, I’ll try to do less of that or something.

James: But to stop-

Jim: But that conviction.

James: … and listen-

Jim: Yes.

James: … to the inner speaking that is there in every one of us.

Jim: Yeah.

James: And when we talk about this, look, I can give a great, I think, presentation on hopefully following the model of what apologetics is all about to try to answer questions for people.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

James: And there are those who are way smarter than me that can talk me under the table, but I’m not trying to convince you using an academic argument. This is a deeply spiritual come to Jesus moment where you have to answer in your own inner heart, “Is this correct? Is this true? Is there a God? The God?”

If you ask the question and become familiar with the territory known as faith in Jesus Christ, we’ve got so many great apologists that you know, whether it’s Alex McFarland, so many.

Jim: Mm.

James: Lee Strobel, his story, The Case for Christ–

Jim: Yeah.

James: … is something that I reference in a number of my messages.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

James: Then just answer the question truthfully yourself, because it is an eternal decision. And here’s the deal. When you understand that there’s no such thing as death as many people thinking where it’s the cessation of life, mm-mm, try the Bible’s definition-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

James: … of death. Our spirit and souls will live on eternally. The physical body may die, but as the Word describes, those of us who are believers-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … will be reunited with the spirit and soul. But eternality is either in heaven with the Lord or as the Bible describes death, it is eternity without Jesus Christ.

Jim: Yeah.

James: It is simple as that. And people may call it hogwash.

Jim: Yeah.

James: But I would certainly say-

Jim: Mm.

James: … do some deep, deep studying and being honest with yourself because the decision is an eternal one and so many people have acutely, but painfully described it this way if you think about it, the choice is either eternity in heaven with Jesus-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

James: … or in smoking with the person-

Jim: Yeah.

James: … or the spirit you don’t wanna be with.

Jim: Perhaps just with no presence of God’s character. Somebody described that will probably be hell, that there’s no love, no kindness, no good, just no presence of God in that place.

James: Eternally.

Jim: Eternally, just torment.

JB, this has been so good. Um, thank you for the time. Thank you for being with us. Thank you for the perspective that you brought. I love it. This is all about the Lord. I, I wasn’t sure how we would aim this. I think the Lord knew (laughs) and He used it and will use it according to His purposes. So thank you again. Thank you for your witness, for your example. You’re flying in some high air there on television through the football season, and it’s just awesome to see how God is using you, and I’m sure using you in all kinds of friendships, uh, to talk with people about Him, so thanks.

James: Can I say thank you to you?

Jim: Oh, yeah.

James: And the patience for this has been a long time coming.

Jim: (laughs) It has.

James: And I don’t-

Jim: But I’ve been looking forward to it.

James: I don’t envy the material that Scott’s gotta trim down.

Jim: (laughs) That’s for sure.

James: (laughs)

John: Well, what a great conversation and a powerful reminder from James Brown on today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

Jim: He just oozes with love for the Lord and his love for others. And I so appreciate his heart. He’s one of those guys you could spend more time just sitting down talking to because he’s got great stories and his heart for God is so right there on his shirt sleeve. Uh, he’s reminded us that a life of influence is not measured simply by success, visibility, achievement, but by faithfulness to Christ. He emulates that so straightforwardly. Uh, he’s challenged us to model the Gospel in our homes, in our work, and in the everyday conversations that God gives us.

If you’d like to learn more about a relationship with Jesus Christ, I wanna encourage you to read our free online booklet called Coming Home. It tells you how to begin a journey in Jesus Christ by accepting Him as your personal Lord and Savior. That’s what we’ve done. We’re a Christian ministry. Uh, I don’t know how many people s- uh, over the 2,000 years of history have made that commitment to Christ, but-

John: Mm.

Jim: … it’s definitely probably in the billions. And you think about that, what do they know that maybe you have not investigated?

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And we want you to do that investigation. It’s the question that people ignore that’s probably the most important question in this life.

Also, if you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to check out our free “Sports and Faith Audio Collection” with other inspiring interviews from sports icons.

John: Yeah, we’ve talked to some great ones, Jim, and that includes legendary pitcher, John Smoltz and, uh, world-class golfer, Bernhard Langer.

Bernhard Langer: To make a long story short, about three months later after going to more Bible studies, started reading the Bible, it was, uh, very clear to me that I had to be born again, and that I was never good enough on my own to earn my way to heaven, but, uh, Jesus did all that for me. I just had to believe in Him. So I got on my knees, prayed the prayer, the acceptance prayer, and that emptiness that I had was gone.

John Smoltz: I asked our chaplain at the time, I said, “You know, I’ve, I’ve prayed the prayer. You’ve told me what it means to be a Christian, how to walk this walk.” And I said, “But let me ask you a question.” I said, “What prevents me from living my life the way I wanna live it? And then I’ll have an age that I’ll turn my life over to Christ. Like what, what prevents me from getting to my…” Let’s just say it’s 38. And he gave me an answer that was real simple. He said, “Nothing prevents you from getting that in your life with one tiny exception. You may not get to your target date, so why take that chance?” And it was just the simplest connection for me to say, “I’m gonna put all my trust in Jesus and I’m gonna give Him all the junk that I’m trying to carry in my backpack, and I’m just gonna release it.”

Jim: Well, maybe that’s something you’ve decided. You can wait till you’re 38, 48, 58. There’s no guarantee you’re ever gonna get there. So the question is, why not make that commitment now if you have an appetite for godly things, but you haven’t made a commitment to Christ? I would answer that question, pronto. (laughs)

John: Mm. (laughs)

Jim: And, you know, you’re not gonna be giving up anything. You’re gonna get more in that, uh, situation. So most importantly, eternal life and faith in Christ and a life of peace rather than chaos. You know, uh, I know sports fans will love to hear these great testimonies from these achievers. These are people who have spent their life honing a skill to be paid tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars to do.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And, uh, you know what? That discipline requires focus and attention. And then when they turn that on their experience with Christ, and like you heard both from John Smoltz and Bernhard Langer, um, that reality that you can’t earn it, it’s a free gift from these guys who are used to earning it. Wow, that’s powerful. So sign up. It’s all free.

And if you can support Focus on the Family, help us bring you more great broadcasts to strengthen your faith and consider making a monthly or one-time gift to help us do that.

John: Donate today. Find these free resources, the audio collection, and the Coming Home online booklet at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Thanks for listening today to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.