Focus on the Family Broadcast

Preview:

Jason Benham: But in the mornings, I was getting up and praying really hard over my business, and God was blessing it, and I was passionate about it, and things were going really well. Then, one morning, as I was praying for my business, the Lord convicted me, and was like, “Are you enjoying your relationship with your wife as much as you’re enjoying what you’re experiencing in business?”

End of Preview

John Fuller: Jason Benham joins us today on Focus on the Family, along with his wife, Tori, and they’re gonna share how, with God’s help, they’ve grown closer in marriage through conflict. Your host is Focus President and author Jim Daly, and I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, whether you’ve been married for two years or 20 years, or maybe a little longer, like in our case.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, you’re going to have, uh, disagreements from time to time with your spouse, and it’s crucial to recognize another factor in conflict. There’s a spiritual war going on in your relationship, and that’s actually a healthy place to realize what’s going on. And in the American church, we tend to under-emphasize the role of spiritual warfare. Uh, scripture’s clear, though. You have a real enemy who is working to undermine God’s design, and that’s for your life, your relationships, starting with your spouse. Ephesians 6:12 says, “We do not wrestle against flesh and blood.” It feels like it.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But it goes on to say, “But, against the spiritual forces of evil in heavenly places.” Our guests today will share the important reminder that a godly marriage is a target.

John: Yeah, we’re all under attack at some level in our marriages. Just this morning, Jim, before I left, I looked at my wife, I said, “I don’t know where we went from happy to some conflict before I leave here, but I’ve got to leave. I’m on your team.” And she looked at me and she said, “It’s not you, it’s me. I’m just struggling right now.”

Jim: Hmm.

John: And I thought, oh, there is something bigger here, ’cause I really don’t want to be, you know, struggling against her. So, I’m so glad we have Jason and Tori Benham here.

Jim: (laughs) It’s intervention time.

John: It is.

Jim: (laughs).

John: For all of us, right? We all need these reminders.

Jim: So true.

John: That there’s something outside of us that wants to tear us apart.

Tori Benham: Yes.

John: So, Jason and Tori have been on the broadcast before. Uh, uh, Jason with his twin brother David, today, a much better-looking counterpart in Tori.

Jason: Certainly.

Jim: (laughs)

John: Uh, you’ve been married for 20 years. They have four children. They have several businesses, and they’ve written a book, uh, about some of their, um journey. It’s called Beauty in Battle, Winning in Marriage by Waging a War. And, uh, you can get your copy from us here at the ministry. Uh, stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast or call 1-800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.

Jim: Jason and Tori, welcome to Focus. Welcome back.

Jason: Thank you. Good to be here with you.

Tori: Thank you so much. Yes, we’re so glad to be here.

Jim: (laughs) It is good. And we alluded to it already, but why is it so important for couples to be aware of the spiritual battle going on? I mean, it’s so easy to fall into the worldly stuff, right? She said what? You said what?

Jason: Yeah.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: (laughs) I mean, rather than going, “Okay, someone’s steering our hearts here in the wrong direction.”

Jason: Yeah. You know, my dad always used to say that how you see the battle determines how you fight it.

Jim: Huh.

Jason: So John, I, I look back at, uh, what you just said about you and your wife having a little disagreement this morning, and, and I think at that moment what Satan wants more than anything is to get you fighting face-to-face against each other, rather than shoulder-to-shoulder against him.

Jim: Hm.

Jason: Right? He wants you tied up in a personal battle rather than engaged together as teammates in a spiritual war. And, and we see this all throughout scripture. Especially there, right at the beginning of Genesis, you know, when Satan was up in heaven and he was, he was an angel, of course he was Lucifer then. He wanted God’s authority. He wanted the throne. And what did God do? He obviously wasn’t gonna fight him, so he, he sent Michael, the archangel, to fight him and they ended up getting into a scrummy and sure enough, Satan loses and gets cast down to earth, and then God decides that he’s gonna make a man. And where did he put him? In the same spot that he just put his banished foe.

John: Hm.

Jason: Like, and then God didn’t give Adam, as, as far as we know, any heads up that Satan was there. And God also didn’t have Eve alongside him. He let Adam go on his own there and have to deal with taking dominion over the garden without his counterpart. Of course we know why, because he wanted to make sure that Adam knew that he needed her.

John: Hm.

Jason: And then God gives Eve to Adam and the whole time, though, Satan is watching this, and Satan has yet to pounce, ’cause Satan wants that authority that Adam has.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jason: And sure enough, Eve comes along. God gives him the greatest gift that he could ever have, because he knows that Satan is about to attack. And so when you talk about why is it important that couples understand that there is a spiritual war, when you know that the very first couple was placed in the context of a fight, that Satan was gonna pounce and God said, “You know what? I’m gonna need to protect him against this, and I’m gonna give Adam the greatest thing he could ever have, a spouse. And where two or more are gathered in my name, there I am in their midst. And the gates of hell cannot prevail against the church.” Marriage is the most organic form of church.

Jim: That’s so true.

Jason: So John, if you see your marriage as a church, now all of a sudden, you and your wife, you’re gonna figure out a way to work through this conflict, ’cause you know Satan…

Jim: That’s so good. And I love that illustration of, you know, that being a stench. That marriage is a stench in the nostrils of Satan.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: Yes.

Jim: ‘Cause it is reminding him constantly that God made human beings, made man in his image…

Jason: Mm-hmm.

Tori: Right.

Jim: And he made them male and female.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And the two shall become one.

Tori: Right.

Jim: And that very image is right in the face of Satan every day. I mean, that’s why we need to fight for our marriages.

Jason: He hates it.

Tori: Right.

Jim: And it makes you fight differently.

Tori: It does.

Jim: Uh, you had, let’s get to it, ’cause this isn’t something, uh, knowledge that you’re born with.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You’ve kind of had to develop these thoughts.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You had a long distance, uh, beginning.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You, you were courting but it was from a distance.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And then you got married and you went on your honeymoon. So just wrap that into a ball for us.

Jason: Yeah.

Jim: Uh, first courtship at, at a distance.

Tori: Yeah.

Jim: How did that go?

Tori: Oh my goodness. Well, while we were courting, when we were dating, Jason was actually getting his master’s degree in marriage and family counseling.

Jim: (laughs)

Jason: Oh gosh.

Tori: In the off-season of playing with the Baltimore Oriels.

Jim: Was that attractive to you that he was doing this?

Tori: It was.

Jim: Wow.

Tori: I was like, he, he said, well, we need to learn about marriage so let’s just do it this way. And so he began to get his master’s and he starts sending me home all of his notes and he’s calling me, he’s sending me the books, and, and we’re like, oh my goodness, this is amazing, God is so good. He’s set-, setting is up. Right? (laughs)

Jim: Yeah.

Tori: And then…

Jim: Isn’t he? (laughs)

Tori: And then we get married and he set us up all right. (laughs)

Jason: (laughs)

Jim: So you go on this honeymoon, that you planned, right?

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: Yeah, I planned it.

Jim: Okay. And what happened?

Jason: Well…

Tori: Oh…

Jim: Knowing that you were meant for each other.

Tori: Yeah. Oh…

Jim: From the beginning of the world. (laughs)

Tori: Yeah, exactly. We were so excited. We were thrilled, and Jason didn’t tell me where we were going, so he told me to pack light, well, he, he meant that we were going somewhere warm.

Jason: Light happened to be the most monstrous suitcase there was.

Tori: (laughs)

Jim: Oh my goodness.

Tori: I didn’t know where we were going so, I packed this big suitcase and we get, we get to the Bahamas and I’m, uh, we get onto the cruise ship and, uh, immediately I’m seasick. I, I had never been on, on a boat.

Jim: That’s not good for a honeymoon.

Tori: No, it wasn’t.

Jason: Yea. Yeah, that’s exactly right.

Tori: And so, um, you know, we, we very quickly realized that expectations were gonna play a huge role in our relationship.

Jason: Yeah.

Tori: And I had gone from this high of, you know, being a beautiful wife at my very best, you know, the week before, to being sick in bed, my very worst, and I just felt so hopeless, like this is not the way it was supposed to be. And of course Jason felt the same way, and Jason ended up, uh, he said, um, we, we were getting ready to go and he was irritated, and he was not himself.

Jason: I was a terrible husband.

Tori: I said what, you know, oh, this is not the Jason I know.

Jim: I think something about throwing a suitcase…

Jason: I did.

Jim: … across the cabin on the ship.

Tori: Yes.

Jason: Uh, well, you know, I helped her pack.

Jim: (laughs)

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: And then I was packing it and she said, “Give it to me and I’ll pack it.” And I said, “Okay, fine.”

Jim: (laughs)

Jason: And I threw it across…

Tori: He flung it.

Jason: Are you kidding? I wasn’t a good husband. I was a new husband. But disappointment is the gap between expectation and reality.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: And I didn’t know that little lesson, and so we learned through the trial of fire that conflict is gonna come. It’s gonna come fast.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: And you’re gonna be revealed for the junk that’s inside you and Satan’s gonna be laughing the whole time because he’s gonna be watching’ it.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: ‘Cause he wants you fighting face-to-face, ’cause he knows how dangerous you are fighting shoulder-to-shoulder.

Jim: Well, people hearing, you gotta say, okay…

Jason: (laughs)

Jim: You’re reading these books; you’re getting your master’s in counseling and marriage…

Jason: I know.

Tori: Right.

Jim: What happened Jason?

Tori: Yeah, right. (laughs)

Jim: (laughs) I mean, you know, ’cause it’s a book knowledge, right?

Jason: Oh my gosh.

Jim: Right?

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And now it’s real.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: Yes. Yeah, well…

Jim: It’s like the people that don’t have kids, when they see the kids in the grocery store…

Tori: Right.

Jim: When they’re having their tantrum.

Jason: Yes.

Jim: “You know, when I have children, my kids will never behave like that.”

Tori: Never.

Jason: Yeah.

Tori: (laughs)

Jim: And God kind of says, “Okay, we’re gonna put that over here for a little while.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: (laughs)

Jason: You know, in my studies I discovered that with, in any unhealthy relationship, it’s typical tyranny by the most selfish person.

Jim: Hm.

Jason: So whoever is most selfish in that moment. I happened to be the most selfish person in that moment, and so I literally became a tyrant.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: That’s essentially what it became where I controlled the situation and I wanted to control things. A lot of guys struggle with that.

Jim: One of the things that’s so good, and, you know, I think it is a process for young married people to learn, and it sounds like we’ve all learned this over time, sometimes it takes some couples longer.

Jason: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But this idea that actually conflict, if it’s handled well, it can improve your relationship. You learn about yourself.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And your spouse learns about him or herself.

Tori: Right.

Jim: But it has to be seen as growth opportunity.

Jason: Yes.

Jim: You know, it’s kind of like that job performance review.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Hey, you’re doing’ all these things well. Let me give ya a couple things to help ya improve, uh, in some areas. And it’s kind of like that, right?

Tori: It really is.

Jim: Where, where are some areas that, you know, I’m not doing as well. Uh, speak to that idea of learning through conflict.

Jason: Well, I think strength comes through strain. So Jim, if you want muscles as big as John, you know…

Jim: (laughs)

Jason: You’re gonna have to go get under that squat rack, you’re gonna have to go get under that bench press.

Jim: (laughs) I only hope that I can get there.

Jason: (laughs)

Tori: (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Jason: But, you know, God, God purifies us in the, in the context of conflict.

Jim: Yeah.

Jason: We’re made for conflict. So Tori and I like to say, “Look, don’t stop fighting. Start fighting the right way.” Because, I mean, all of us at this table could easily say that marriage is under attack, like never before.

Jim: Oh, the numbers prove it.

Jason: And Tori and I would say marriage was made for the attack.

Jim: Huh.

Jason: God wants it attacked, because as your marriage gets attacked and you experience that conflict, those who suffer together stay together.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jason: It increases your commitment level to each other.

Jim: Well, and your intimacy. Emotionally, spiritually.

Jason: Yeah. Uh, I mean, you look what happens to, you, you take 120 young men, and you send them off to boot camp for 12 weeks and, you know, as Marines, and then you send ’em off to war and they come back a year later a band of brothers. You know? It’s like you, you’ve got this, the, the one ring that will always keep you guys bound together as a married couple is not your wedding ring, it’s suffer-ring.

Jim: (laughs)

Tori: (laughs)

Jason: That when you move through that and recognize, you know what? This conflict is not gonna tear us apart. Where John looks at his wife tonight and says, “You know what? You’re not my enemy.” And she says to you, “You’re not my enemy. Satan is the enemy and we’re gonna defeat him together. He wants us fighting against each other because God has a plan for us to fight against him and we’re not gonna let that happen right now.”

John: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Our guests today are Jason and Tori Benham. We’re talking about their book Beauty in Battle, Winning in Marriage by Waging a War. We’ll encourage you to get a copy of the book at our website, that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast or give us a call, 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.

Jim: Tori, I want, uh, I guess to, to get your observation on this one.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You mention in the book Jason began traveling a lot.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You had the young kids at home.

Tori: Yeah.

Jim: You were kind of going’ a little crazy. (laughs)

Tori: Just a little.

Jason: Poor girl.

Jim: And then he’d probably come home like I would, and say, “Oh, you wouldn’t believe who I met, the president, the senator, the whatever.”

Tori: Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jim: Right? So…

Tori: Yeah.

Jim: Help, you know, identify that with other spouses…

Tori: Yeah.

Jim: … that are mostly at home.

Tori: Yep.

Jim: Uh, working in the home you might say.

Tori: Yeah.

Jim: How, how did, how did that hit ya and then how did you resolve the conflict?

Tori: Yeah. Yeah, so, when the kids were really little, Jason was traveling a lot and he was gone quite a bit, and, um, you know, I had, my whole life I had had a dream that I would work alongside my husband one day. And that was just always something that I thought we would be moving towards. And when Jason and David started their business and it kind of took them in a different direction, I, I was so busy at home raising kids and homeschooling that I didn’t even really think about that dream for a while. I was just, my hands were full, and we were busy. And, you know, I, I think that at some point it kind of caught up to me that there, there was an unrealized dream inside of me that was causing me to just, causing a lot of sadness really, in my heart.

Jim: Ah, interesting.

Tori: Mm-hmm. And so, as Jason began to travel, um, I began to kind of pick up these bad habits of dealing with this pain in my heart of him doing a lot of life without me, things not being the way I thought that they were gonna be.

Jim: Huh.

Tori: A lot of expectations that weren’t really coming true, and, and so, I, you know, life just was so busy that I just kind of felt like I just had to keep on going, but there was really this real deep longing in my heart to be doing more of life with Jason that I began to just feel really sad every time he left.

Jim: Huh.

Tori: And my way of dealing with it was, “Well, I’ve just gotta get strong. Like Jason’s doing great without me and I’m just like barely holding on without him. I’ve just gotta figure out a way to get stronger.” And the way that I did that was to kind of put up a wall between me and Jason because I was trying’ to be strong on my own and I, I knew that God was calling him to, to these different things that he was doing, and I didn’t want to get into the way of that and I just began to build this wall as a coping mechanism for…

Jim: Yeah.

Tori: … these just, you know, tough feelings that I was, and the sad-, the sadness of him doing so much of life without me. Every time Jason would come home, I was just distant and I wouldn’t really let him in, and during that time, I was learning about neuroscience and how our brains work and how our thoughts work and how, it’s really fascinating when you look into, to neuroscience and to see that our thoughts are-, they’re like pathways and the more that we think a thought, the more established these pathways in our mind become, so if I think a thought like, “I’ve gotta be strong, I gotta do this life without Jason.” Then I begin to think, “He doesn’t need me and he…” You know, um, he’s totally fine without me, he, you need to become more independent. All these thoughts. Right?

Tori: Started creating this pathway that I would go down every time he left but what that was-, was leading me to was not Jason. And I-, so I began to bring Jason into this and, to say, you know, something’s gotta change, like I feel like I just, I just wanna distance myself from you to protect myself from the pain that I’m feeling in this season.

Jim: Mm-hmm. That’s great that you were able to open up though and have that discussion.

Tori: Yeah.

Jim: Because again, that, that one-way road on your own…

Tori: Yeah. Yeah.

Jim: … would lead to disaster, probably an affair, or, you know…

Tori: Yes. Yeah.

Jim: … just something.

Tori: Right.

Jim: And something unhealthy for your marriage.

Tori: Right.

Jim: And, and, but that was really critical that you were able to pull together and say, “Okay, this is what I’m feeling.”

Tori: Yeah.

Jim: “I think this is why I’m feeling it.”

Tori: Yes.

Jim: That, boy, couples would be in such a better place.

Tori: Yeah.

Jim: If they could just be that open and that vulnerable.

Jason: Fortunately, God gave her a little pattern on how to get out of it.

Tori: Yeah.

Jason: Are you gonna share that with ’em?

Tori: Yeah.

Jason: ‘Cause that is awesome.

Tori: I was gonna, to speak to what you said, I think that the Lord, the reason I was able to do that is because the Lord had shown us a vision for our marriage that this is-, that, that the enemy was coming against it and I knew that Jason was my strongest ally, so what were the things that were keeping me from fighting alongside of him.

Jason: Yeah.

Jim: Yeah.

Tori: And that was one of those things, I would, you know, every time he would travel would kind of set us back a few steps. But yeah, so as I began to walk through this, Jason actually was, in his scripture reading was reading about Jesus in the wilderness and how he dealt with temptations.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Tori: And he, you know, Jason actually spoke this message to our church with these three Rs.

Jason: Yeah.

Tori: Which was recognize, renounce, replace. This is how, how Jesus dealt with these temptations. And so, um, Jason started walking me through this. I’m like, I, I really think, as he gave this message in our church, I, after the sermon I was like, “I think that’s how I need to transform my mind. I think that these thoughts have just, I, I’ve established this path that I just naturally jump onto because like any established path, you, you’re gonna naturally go the established path more than the ones that haven’t been broken down.”

John: It’s the easy way.

Tori: It’s the easy way. It’s the path of least resistance. And so, um, I began to do these steps. Recognize, recognize myself at the foot of the path. “Oh, I’m going down it again, all these little triggers, Jason’s on the road. I hear all these people. They sounded like they’re having a great time. I’m sitting with the kids with macaroni and cheese in my hair again.” You know?

Jim: Yeah.

Tori: It’s all these little triggers and I, I began to recognize where I am.

Jason: And to recognize that Satan was the author of those thoughts.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: Like this is Satan. I’m gonna recognize that he’s in this and he’s throwing these thoughts. And then you moved into renounce.

Tori: Right. Renounce the lie. What is the lie behind this? And the Lord began to sho-, as I began to ask, “God, what is, what is the lie behind all of this?” And the Lord began to reveal to me that there was this discontent in my heart and really it stemmed from, um, one day Jason was on the road and the-, you know out of the abundance of, of the heart the mouth speaks, and sure enough, he calls one day and there’s all this, you know, all this, um…

Jim: Excitement.

Tori: Excitement. Yeah.

Jim: (laughs)

Tori: And he, and I just burst into tears. And he’s like, “What’s wrong?” And I lash out and I say, “I just don’t think it was very nice.” And he, he said, “What are you talking about?” I said, “I just don’t think it was very nice of God. I didn’t even dream that big. I didn’t have this grandiose dream, you know, I, I just wanted to do life with you, and it, it wasn’t even really that much to ask. I feel like everyone should want this in their marriage, and I just don’t think it was very nice of him.”

Jim: (laughs) Wow.

Jason: So she had to renounce the lie that God was mean.

Tori: Yeah.

Jason: I mean, seriously, she walked through this.

Tori: And if you could’ve said that that was the lie was believing, I wouldn’t, if, if I hadn’t lashed out and said that I would’ve never thought that I thought God was unkind. But God is like, out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and that was in my heart.

John: Mmm.

Tori: Like, I really began to believe like maybe God isn’t really for me. Maybe he doesn’t really hear me.

Jim: Well, and Tori, I so appreciate that vulnerability.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I mean, that’s amazing. And just your being in tune with the spirit.

Tori: Hm.

Jim: Even in valleys, to be able to say, “Okay Lord, here’s what I’m feeling.”

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And what’s so important for people to remember, and I would encourage people in this way, God can take your sorrows.

Tori: Yes.

Jason: Yeah, he can.

Jim: He wants to hear that from you.

Jason: Yes.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Sometimes we even try to hide that from the Lord, so we’re kind of pretending in every direction with our spouse, with God, better to lay it out there.

Jason: Mm-hmm.

Tori: Yes.

Jim: And that’s what refreshing about what you did.

Tori: Yeah.

Jim: Jason, I’m not gonna let you off the hook.

Jason: (laughs)

Jim: Because, uh, you know, you, you had some issues too as a husband. And you realized you had kind of allowed your marriage to become complacent.

Jason: Yes.

Jim: So I, I do wanna hit that and, you know, so wives, you’re now going’, “Uh-huh, that’s good Jim. Yeah, bring that out here, too.

Jason: (laughs)

Tori: (laughs)

Jim: So…

Jason: Well, you know, uh, I, I do wanna speak to that. I, I just wanna go back real quick to that, that recognize, renounce, replace, those three steps, for any listener out there right now, you can apply that in your own heart and mind right now. And it will change your, your relationships. Starting today, it will change it for the better. Recognize the, the devil is the one throwing those thoughts into your mind. Don’t buy into those thoughts. Renounce the lie behind those thoughts and replace it with the truth.

Jim: Yeah.

Jason: When you do that, you’ll have to do it over and over, it will help your relationship.

Jim: Well, and the thought that I had there, you know, even where Paul writes about think on heavenly things.

Jason: Yes.

Jim: You know that idea that, those pathways.

Tori: Right.

Jim: You know, God created the brain.

Jason: Yeah.

Tori: Yes.

Jim: He knows, he knows how to use it. (laughs)

Tori: Yes.

Jason: Yeah.

Jim: And so the idea that we read scripture, that we meditate on scripture…

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … together, that we pray together.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Those are creating pathways as well.

Tori: Yeah.

Jason: Yeah.

Jim: Pathways of truth.

Tori: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Jim: And, and that’s what caught my attention.

Jason: Yeah.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: Well, you know…

Jim: So okay, back to your shortcomings (laughs)

Tori: (laughs)

Jason: My shortcomings, Tori made it through hers, and God had to re-, just smack me a good one. Fives year into marriage. Here I am a husband. I would say on a scale of 1 to 10, I would rate our marriage, what would you say, Tori, six or seven?

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: Which for most people they’d say, “Great, we loved each other, best friends, you know, everything was great. But, you know, it wasn’t everything that I always thought it would be.” And I think most of us get to that point at some point in marriage. But in the mornings, I was getting up and praying really hard over my business, and God was blessing it, and I was passionate about it, and things were going really well. Then, one morning, as I was praying for my business, the Lord convicted me, and was like, “Are you enjoying your relationship with your wife as much as you’re enjoying what you’re experiencing in business?”

Jim: Hm.

Jason: And I had to be real honest, and I was like, “I don’t think I am.” And so then I began to pray and, and the Lord was just reminding me of all those feelings I used to have for Tori before we got married and I’m like, wha-, why is our marriage like hovering at a seven, which most people would say that is okay. Why can’t it be a 10? Why can’t it be an 11?

Jim: (laughs)

Jason: Why can’t it be just as awesome and hot and romantic as it was, you know, as we thought it should be when, when we were dating. So I began to pray. And I would wake up every morning, really early. Jim, you’re an early morning guy.

Jim: Yeah. (laughs)

Jason: And I would get right next to the bed, next to Tori, about 5:30 in the morning and I would lay my hands on her, and I always made sure to keep it above the shoulders, so she didn’t think I was making’ an early morning move or anything.

Tori: (laughs)

Jason: So I would pray that God would reignite my passion for her. And I did that every day for two weeks. And then Tori and I show up at a party one evening two weeks later, and as typical, we walk into this party, you know, just like a little birthday party, bunch of friends there, I go one way and talk to the guys, she goes one way and talks to the girls. Only this time, after about 30 minutes, I was wondering where Tori was. I was a little more hyper-focused on her. And I walked around the house and I finally found her in the kitchen, but I didn’t, I saw her through a hallway into the kitchen, and she was talking’ to another guy. And this guy was standing awkwardly close to her and instantly I kind of felt this little heat come up in my chest, and, and I just sat there. And I, now I hadn’t felt jealous in a while. I mean, I think there’s a lot of guys out there that, you know, they’ve lost their jealousy. Their protective jealousy for the apple of their eye. And you gotta get that back. And so the Lord was about to give to me.

Jim: (laughs)

Jason: And, and so I saw them talking strangely close to each and then he busted a joke, and I’m sitting there watching this, getting madder and madder. And then, to my horror, I saw him reach out and give her a hug and she actually reciprocated and put her head down on his chest and I had never felt anything like that. It was like somebody boiled hot boiling lava on my chest.

Jim: Hm.

Jason: I took out off on a full-out sprint. I jumped across the kitchen island, food everywhere.

Jim: Oh my.

Jason: I jumped up with my fist, like I was gonna pop him right in the chin. And then I woke up. It was a nightmare.

Jim: Oh.

Jason: And you know, your body doesn’t know if you’re-, it really happened or not.

Jim: This was, this was a bad dream.

Jason: It was a nightmare. It was just a bad dream.

Jim: Wow.

Jason: But it was a nightmare.

Jim: I was ready for a smack down. (laughs)

Jason: And I wanted, I woke up, now listen, I was dripping sweat, I sat up in bed.

Jim: Wow.

Jason: And I looked over at Tori, who was sleeping peacefully having no idea that she was in love with another man.

Jim: (laughs)

Tori: (laughs)

Jason: And I just knew that something’ was going on.

Jim: Yeah, that’s a…

Jason: Right? And I got up and I was, I was pacing around, and then I woke her up. I said, “Honey, you gotta tell me, what’s going’ on? I just had a dream that you were cheating on me.” Of course, you know, the guy gave her a hug or whatever, and she’s like, “No, nothing, I promise. Calm down, I mean, it’s okay.” And I was like, “All right.” So I went to the bathroom, washed my face off, and my heart rate started to slowly go down. And then I, I went over next to her bed, as I had for two weeks, and I started to pray for her again. And the Lord hit me. “I gave you that dream, because you have forgotten how to pursue your wife. And I want you to pursue her like that guy in your dream was pursuing her.” And I remember saying, “But how?” You know. Like when we’re dating, we don’t need a, we don’t need a how-to manual on, you know, how to the win the heart of our girl.

Jim: We figure it out.

Jason: We figure it out. But how? And God took me to Revelation 2. Where he was talking’ to the Church of Ephesus. The Church of Ephesus had a first love, and their love had grown cold, and God said, “You need to do three specific things.” When, when you look at Revelation 2, there’s three things that popped out. He said, “Remember how far you’ve fallen. Repent. And redo the things you did at first.”

Jim: Hm.

Jason: Remember, repent, redo.

Jim: Hm.

Jason: God dropped that on me. Remember how much I used to think about Tori and all the stuff we used to do before we were married and dancing in the kitchen to country music. And country music is God’s music.

Jim: (laughs)

Tori: Yeah. (laughs)

Jason: Dancing, all these things, remember that. Repeat for not doing’ it anymore. And redo the things that you did at first to win her heart. And I’m telling you what, for the next, I mean, ever since then, that was five years into marriage, we’ve been married almost 21 years now.

John: Hm.

Jim: You know, it, it’s a great reminder of how God uses the metaphor of marriage.

Jason: Hm.

Jim: In our relationship to him.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Him to us. Us to one another.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jim: There is that strong…

Jason: Hm.

Jim: … indication about how, how he wants us to pursue him, him us.

Tori: Right.

Jim: One another in our marriage.

Jason: Yes.

Jim: I mean, it is what he wants for us.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: And we’ve gotta remember, God is not just our father, he’s, our father-in-law.

Jim: (laughs)

Jason: And what does the father-in-law want you to do? If you wanna say I love you to your father-in-law, what does your father-in-law then say to you?

Jim: Take care of my daughter.

Jason: Take care of my daughter.

Tori: Mm-hmm.

Jason: Take care of my son.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Yeah, that’s really good. This has been awesome. Man, what a great book. Beauty in Battle and the idea that you’re fighting together, not at each other.

Tori: Right.

Jason: Yes.

Jim: And I so appreciate the thoughts and the many things we talked about today. And I hope if you’re in that spot where you are not fighting together, you’re fighting against each other, uh, get a copy of this book. If you can send a gift of any amount, uh, monthly, or a one-time gift, we’ll send it as our way of saying’ thank you for being part of the ministry. If you can’t afford to do that, we’re gonna trust other people will cover that, ’cause we wanna get it into your hands. We’re a Christian ministry so that’s our goal. If you need it, call us and we’ll get it to you. And there’s also caring Christian counselors that you can contact here at Focus on the Family, uh, typically they call ya back because they gotta put ya in the cue, and they’ll do that. But after over 40 years of ministry, you’re not gonna surprise us. I think we’ve heard it all. And you just need to be vulnerable, and, uh, if we can help, we want to help. So get in touch with us.

John: Get in touch today. Our website is focusonthefamily.com/broadcast or call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459.

Jim: Jason and Tori, this again has been terrific. Thank you for just that openness, that vulnerability and working hard to show that you are both created in the image of God and that the two shall become one. Thank you.

Jason: Thanks for having us.

Tori: Thank you. We’ve enjoyed this. Thanks so much.

John: And thank you for joining us. Next time author Susie Larson shares about the importance of seeing yourself the way God sees you.

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Susie Larson: When God looks at you, his heart beats out of his chest he loves you so much. If you’re shy in that you have less to say, that’s okay. But if you think you’re less than, that’s absolutely not okay. If you live your life trying to dig yourself out of a hole, you’re living a lie. Jesus loves you. You’re no better than, but you are not less than.

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