John Fuller: Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we’ll explore the relationship between parents and their adult children.
Daughter: Dad, we need to talk.
Dad: Sure, honey. What’s up? Wanna use the car? Need a few bucks? I- I- can-
Daughter: No, no. (laughs). Listen, dad. I really think the time has come for me to move out of the house.
Dad: Honey, why? This is so sudden.
Daughter: Dad, I’m 35 years old.
Dad: W- what? All 35-year-old girls need to move out of their parents’ houses? I thought you liked it here. I’d miss my little girl.
Daughter: I’m not your little girl anymore, Dad. I’ve been married for seven years.
Dad: I know, I know, and we love Bob.
Daughter: Bill.
Dad: Bill. Your mother and I think the world of Bill. Don’t we think the world of Bill, honey?
Mom: Bill who?
Daughter: Listen, Dad, I’m getting older. It’s time that I led my own life to give my family an identity of its own.
Dad: Why?
John: (laughs).
Jim: (laughs).
John: Well, as our children get older, obviously some things need to change, and today we’re gonna learn how change can be a good thing. Thanks for joining us today. Uh, your host is Jim Daly, and I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: (laughs). Oh, I hope that’s facetious. (laughs).
John: Way over the top.
Jim: That parent needs to call Focus on the Family-
John: (laughs).
Jim: … like, right now.
John: (laughs).
Jim: But, uh, we are going to cover this issue of adult children and how we perhaps change the parenting modality at that point to be influencers rather than control freaks.
John: (laughs).
Jim: I think that the best way to intro this program, John, is to give the title, Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children. That says it all. If you’re in this spot, you’re gonna need to order this book and listen to the broadcast today.
John: Yeah. Dr. Kathy Koch is back with us. Uh, she’s always a popular guest.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
John: And Dr. Kathy is a speaker, author, researcher, uh, the founder of Celebrate Kids, which is a ministry dedicated to equipping parents and caregivers and others to help children, uh, be more seen and heard. And, uh, today we’re gonna hear about Dr. Kathy’s book. As Jim said, I hope you’ll get a copy of it from us here at the ministry.
Jim: Kathy, welcome back.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Thank you so much. Honored to be here. Always.
Jim: It’s always. Good. You are such a… Let me say it politely, a research geek. (laughs).
Dr. Koch: (laughs).
Jim: You love the research on family, don’t you?
Dr. Koch: I love observing families. I don’t necessarily like, like, library research.
Jim: Okay.
Dr. Koch: I let somebody else do that for me. But, oh, I love the research of observation and, you know, what’s happening in culture that’s affecting our families.
Jim: Let me ask you this question because I love talking to people that like that kind of observational research-
Dr. Koch: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … if I could call it that. Because you see patterns.
Dr. Koch: Right.
Jim: Which to me indicates God.
Dr. Koch: Yes.
Jim: That life is set up in patterns that, that God is showing us. I mean, He gives us seasons, the way the solar system works. I mean, there’s these patterns that God has set up in nature.
Dr. Koch: Uh-huh.
Jim: And like Paul writes about you.
Dr. Koch: Yes.
Jim: You have no excuse because you can see God in nature, right?
Dr. Koch: Yes.
Jim: And in that regard, we can see God and how families operate.
Dr. Koch: Mm.
Jim: And what is good and what is not so good. And in that issue, when you do this observation with these families, especially now that the kids become adults, what are some of those major breakdowns from the parenting side that occur?
Dr. Koch: Oh, that’s so good to start there. (laughs). Um, I should have gotten, given you the memo, easy questions only.
Jim: (laughs).
Dr. Koch: Um, you know, the fact that parents are still trying to parent when they need to move into a consulting role, maybe being a guide, a coach, a mentor, an influencer. Um, we can’t parent adult kids. We still may want to. And we may legitimately feel like we haven’t finished our job yet because we begin to see some things that are lacking in our adult children when they begin to launch out. And then how do we deal with that? Um, do our kids want us to be involved at all? Do, do they maybe still want us to parent because they feel insecure, but we don’t want to. I think that’s part of the confusion for sure. I think relationships between adult children and the younger siblings can also be a really complex issue.
Jim: That’s true.
Dr. Koch: Younger siblings are still being parented or still living at home, but the older ones have maybe moved out and launched and, but we still want them to be connected. I think that’s a factor. I think overwhelmed parents. I think every parent of adult kids, every one of them is overwhelmed. Uh, not just by the adult kids-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: … but just by culture, right? By confusion. By things that are going on at church-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: … things that are going on in their workplace. And it’s messy, but we don’t give up, right? Because we have God.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: And, and we know, I hope we know in the knowing of our knowing, I like to say, I hope we know in the knowing of our knowing that we’re still a family and that God ordains the family and He doesn’t want that to ever break up.
Jim: Yeah. There’s such power there when it’s healthy. And-
Dr. Koch: Yes.
Jim: … and unfortunately, many of us will experience, uh, kind of the destructive power of that too, you know, family of origin leftovers, right? (laughs)
Dr. Koch: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And I’ll tell you a lot of therapists, Christian therapists-
Dr. Koch: (laughs)..
Jim: … will talk about that, things that, um, give us a little limp in our adult lives-
Dr. Koch: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … because of what happened when we were children, right?
Dr. Koch: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You, you kind of do learn a lot. You don’t fall far from the tree typically. Now God can intervene and-
Dr. Koch: Amen.
Jim: … and interdict. And, you know, if your father was an alcoholic, you don’t have to become an alcoholic.
Dr. Koch: Amen.
Jim: And so I love those components. That’s part of my story, right?
Dr. Koch: Right.
Jim: So, you know, there, there’s power through that relationship in Jesus. And that, that’s key to everybody’s healthiness spiritually, right?
Dr. Koch: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Well, let’s get into it. Uh, you warn parents about making kids into idols. Uh-oh. Especially, I think, especially Christians.
Dr. Koch: Oh, shoot.
Jim: I mean-
Dr. Koch: Yes.
Jim: … don’t you think?
Dr. Koch: Yes.
Jim: You know, we love our kids. I am always pulling out my phone. Look at my boys-
Dr. Koch: (laughs).
Jim: … look at my boys, (laughs) you know?
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: But how do we need to be careful? And what does it mean, I guess, to, as a parent to make your children an idol?
Dr. Koch: To depend upon them to be your everything.
Jim: To meet your emotional needs.
Dr. Koch: To meet your emotional needs, to meet your need for, look, I’m amazing. And so we display our children on, you know, the, the pedestal, if you will, rather than the, whatever the, you know, back in Bible times when they would have used some structure somewhere. No, we’re, we’re created to worship, right? We are created to worship. We will worship someone or something.
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Koch: It should be God. Um, and do we, are we doing that? Is, is God the center of our universe? Is God who we think of and talk about? Is it God that we’re trying to impress? And again, we don’t have to impress God, but to glorify God, right?
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Koch: So I’m here today and, and I don’t, like, I don’t need to be remembered. Like my, my prayer would be that God would be pleased with what happens here between the three of us and the production team, you know, behind the window and that there would be evidence that we did good work here so that God looks good and that Jesus is known and celebrated. That has to be the mindset. But yeah, we have parents idolizing children, grandparents idolizing grandchildren, meaning that they want the children to perform for them to make them look good. And that’s not appropriate.
Jim: Uh-uh.
Dr. Koch: Children are not performers. God didn’t give us kids so that we would look good. If you’re afraid that you’re gonna look like a less than great parent because your children are doing something wrong, that might be a sign that you’re idolizing them.
Jim: You know, the, the thing I’ve observed in myself, uh, let alone other parents I know.
Dr. Koch: (laughs).
Jim: But it is, uh, you know, it’s so kind of below the radar sometimes that you’re even doing this.
Dr. Koch: Mm.
Jim: You’re not aware-
Dr. Koch: Right.
Jim: … that you’re doing, you’re making an idol-
Dr. Koch: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … out of your children. Or that you’re deriving something positive from their good behavior.
Dr. Koch: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You know? And I, I can remember that. I talked to my boys, you know, there was a couple of good friends that I had saying, “Make sure your boys realize they don’t have to perform because you’re the president of Focus.”
Dr. Koch: Totally.
Jim: So I mean, I just had that conversation with them.
Dr. Koch: Good.
Jim: I’m not expecting you to be perfect young men. I think they took it to heart.
Dr. Koch: (laughs).
Jim: (laughs). But no, they’re great.
Dr. Koch: No, that’s good.
Jim: They’re really good-
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: … young men.
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: But I, you know, that’s important for parents, Christian parents, pastors.
Dr. Koch: Oh, totally.
Jim: Oh my goodness.
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: How, how do you have that healthy conversation age appropriately, you know, with your eight-year-old versus your 15-year-old?
Dr. Koch: Yeah. No, and I think, you know, uh, so I love that you were aware of that. And I think that’s, most parents are excellent parents. I tell adult children all the time, your parents did the best they knew how to do with the wisdom they had in the moment. Stop judging them and we can get into that more, you know, later. But I think the parent needs to be alert. Am I expecting something from my children that’s making them uncomfortable to be around me? Like maybe they don’t want to tell me how they’re doing because they’re afraid that I’ll be either very disappointed and harsh or expecting them to keep up the good work-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: … you know, because the parent thinks say, I’m not, I’m not… See, if you don’t think you’re anybody who can do anything except that you’re a parent, the pressure your children are feeling is immense.
Jim: (laughs)
Dr. Koch: And this is one reason they distance themselves from us because they don’t, they don’t want that pressure. So I want to say again what you were just implying, Jim. Nobody did this intentionally. Very few parents-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: … do this intentionally. Um, and so what we’re here to do is to raise their awareness, right? So that they don’t live in denial so that they can realize maybe this is an issue and maybe I need to rely on God in me to be well and not expecting my children.
Jim: But in that regard, you created something called a declaration of release.
Dr. Koch: Yes, sir.
Jim: I love this.
Dr. Koch: Good.
Jim: Describe it and how do we apply it?
Dr. Koch: Right. So for us to realize that God loves our adult children more than we ever could or would-
Jim: (laughs).
Dr. Koch: … and for us to understand that we can’t control. Now that they’re adults living outside of the home or even in their, if they’re living in the home, they are adults, our parenting years are finished. Now we consult, guide, coach, mentor, et cetera. And so the Declaration of Release is designed to give the parent this opportunity to say, “My son is God’s.” Now, I hope that the son has always been God’s, right? But this is different and I’m gonna release my kids, my sons and daughters to the love of God and I’m not going to control you. I’m going to pray that God meets your needs for security, et cetera, and that you don’t look to me to meet them. I think that’s huge. And then we, we parent strong still, right? We still parent, but we parent differently.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: We love, we love maybe a bit differently and we release them to God. So say it every day, you know, that you’re, you’re now released to the love that God has and I’m going to take my hands off of you and I’m going to ask God to, like, help you. I know the look on your face-
Jim: I know.
Dr. Koch: … people who are not watching on YouTube-
John: (laughs).
Dr. Koch: … you’re like, “This is not easy.”
Jim: Yeah. I, and that’s the point there because we, I would say over engage.
Dr. Koch: Mm.
Jim: You know, someone asked me this question, which I thought was really good. If the Lord’s plan for your child was to take them through a valley at 25, let’s say-
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: … so that He could get their attention, whatever that might be, would you be willing as the parent to allow God that maneuverability to get to their soul? Now, we’re gonna say, “Absolutely.”
Dr. Koch: (laughs).
Jim: But when it comes to doing it, it’s like absolutely not.
Dr. Koch: (laughs).
Jim: Right?
Dr. Koch: Right.
Jim: We’re gonna save, we’re gonna intervene, we’re gonna do the things that keep them from pain, and the irony is we may be keeping them from a depth of their relationship with Christ.
Dr. Koch: Absolutely. And that’s a reason that I would love and be honored if parents of teenagers would buy this book, because we can begin to see the pattern that needs to be established now so that when they launch, whether that be college, trade, military, early marriage, entrepreneurship, gap year, whatever, they’re able to do that well. Um, I think, I think the point that you’re making is really, really good. We know the scripture, we know what it says in Romans 5. We’ve, I’ve been on the show before talking with the two of you about the resiliency factor, and it comes from going through valleys well. Romans 5:3-5, James 1:2-4 are two of the places. Romans 8:29, the verse after Romans 8:28, that all things will work together, you know, for those who love God and live on purpose. All those verses say that the struggle is worth it. That’s where we get our biblical character, that’s where we get our deeper faith in the God of the Bible because we experience Him in the valley. So if parents have overprotected their children and they’ve expected their children to look good so that they feel good about the job that they’ve played as parent, the kids are possibly fragile. They have loved that parents have protected them up until this point. “Grab your lunch.” Every kid loves that they’re reminded to grab their lunch-
Jim: (laughs).
Dr. Koch: … because they don’t wanna go hungry in the middle of the day. But now that they’re 21, 23, you know, (laughs) 35, they do wanna grow up and they do want some independence and they do want to discover how the world works and they’re gonna discover that when we allow them to walk through valleys, we pray in the distance perhaps. We ask, “Hey, can I help you in any way? Let me know. How can I help you?” But we, we watch and then we praise God for the opportunity that those kids had to grow up and hopefully it wasn’t trauma and, and tragedy, but it was growth.
Jim: Yeah. Well, again, I love that idea of declaration of release.
Dr. Koch: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And if you haven’t done that, that’s one good reason to get the book-
Dr. Koch: Mm.
Jim: … just to see that concept and do it.
Dr. Koch: Mm. Thanks.
Jim: And write it out. Let me ask you this, uh, in, uh, funny, I was reading the prep last night and Trent was over for dinner.
Dr. Koch: Oh, fun.
Jim: So I actually went through some of this with them, but you caution parents to listen more and talk less, ouch. (laughs).
Dr. Koch: (laughs).
Jim: And then, you know, making I statements versus you statements.
Dr. Koch: Mm.
Jim: So describe what that looks like and sounds like.
Dr. Koch: Right.
Jim: The I statement versus the you statement.
Dr. Koch: Right. So it would be, like, the I statement is, you know, I, um, I worry when you don’t reach out to me often enough. Okay? Like, I worry or I wonder who you’re hanging out with. I just, I st- I love you and we’re not as connected because you don’t live here. So I’m just curious about who you’re hanging out with. That I statement, I’m curious, versus you never tell me who you’re hanging out with.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: Okay. So you never tell… That’s very judgmental, right?
Jim: Correct.
Dr. Koch: That sounds invasive, I think, to adult kids. It sounds like, well, why don’t you trust me to just hang… Why do you need to know who I’m hanging out with?
Jim: What’s the outcome of that style of, of parenting at that level? What will that adult child do?
Dr. Koch: Yeah. Oh, the you statement will cause them to remain distant.
Jim: Correct.
Dr. Koch: Yeah. They’ll-
Jim: So the very thing you’re wanting is the parent, you’re not gonna get-
Dr. Koch: Right.
Jim: … because of how you’re interacting.
Dr. Koch: Right. Let me tell you guys, this book was hard to write because nobody wants to hear that because you can’t go back 10 years and change the way you parented. So let me say to our audience, like, thank you for being here. And-
Jim: (laughs).
Dr. Koch: … you did the best you knew how to do when you did it, and now we’re gonna give you some advice about changing course if, if you are willing to do that, right?
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Koch: So I worry or I wonder or I’m concerned because you told me that you had a job interview, but you haven’t told me how it turned out that’s healthier and that I think engages conversation.
Jim: Yeah. On demand parenting, I think of streaming.
Dr. Koch: Oh, yes.
Jim: Is that a sh- is that a show on Netflix?
Dr. Koch: Yes.
Jim: On demand parenting?
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
John: (laughs).
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: What is on demand parenting and why do we need to be aware of it?
Dr. Koch: Yeah. So back in the old days, you know, we just had the phone, right, and praise God for the phone on the wall.
Jim: (laughs).
Dr. Koch: Um, you know, now we’ve got, you know, we can follow our kids on apps if, if they allow us to. There’s, you know, there’s FaceTime, there’s texting, there’s calling, there’s, you know, Facebook, there’s Instagram, there’s so many places where we can go to our kids. So if we know our kid is on the phone, like if our kid just texted us, we’re tempted to call. No, if they text you, which means that they’re in, they’re on their phone, that doesn’t give you the right to call and take advantage of the fact that they’re on their phone. You know, that feels, again, invasive and, you know, you’re laughing, but it’s not funny.
Jim: I, because I’m in that moment.
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: I just… That’s where I gotta do a little better job.
Dr. Koch: Yeah. It’s you know-
Jim: Trent will tell… I’ll call Trent and then he’ll text me, “What’s up?”
Dr. Koch: Instead of calling you back?
Jim: (laughs). Instead of calling me back.
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: (laughs)
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: And I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta relent and say, “Okay, I’m gonna text him back. Nothing much, just wanted to hear your voice.” (laughs)
Dr. Koch: Did you notice one of the things I write about in the book is be satisfied with what you have even though you want more?
Jim: Oh, that’s good.
John: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Koch: I mean, seriously, you guys, like I understand you want the phone call, you want the real visit, you want the, the time with the kid and, and you have a right to want that.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: They’re your kid. Let them launch appropriately, and again, complex issues, but be satisfied and be grateful for the text because if you manipulate, “Oh, you just texted? You can’t call?”
Jim: Right, right. You don’t wanna do that-
Dr. Koch: They’re not gonna call you.
Jim: You don’t wanna do that-
Dr. Koch: No, no, no.
Jim: … for sure.
Dr. Koch: Easy to do, but it’s not healthy.
John: Mm. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and today our guest is Dr. Kathy Koch. We’re covering some of the content in her book, Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children. And, uh, we have copies of that here. We also have a free downloadable, uh, document of that Declaration of Release for you, which is for you to work through as the parent and then to share with your child. It’s great and, uh, we’ve got a link for it at FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Dr. Kathy, you have great suggestions, recommendations for parents and adult children and how to help their relationship. Uh, home visits is one of the things-
Dr. Koch: Mm.
Jim: … that you cover in the book. No, that’s really funny. ‘Cause again, I’m talking experientially. John, you’ve got six kiddos-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … so, uh, but, you know, even going by the apartment-
Dr. Koch: Oh.
Jim: … to, to just say hi, you gotta… I’ve only done that one time and it was-
Dr. Koch: Mm.
Jim: … you know, Trent said, “Hey, why don’t you stop on by?” But you, you gotta respect their territory, right?
Dr. Koch: That would be ideal.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: You know, you said you’ve got to. I think absolutely. I think if you want a healthier relationship with your adult children, if you want to have communication that’s give and take, if you want them to freely share with you their joys and their despair so that you can still be involved with them, then we respect by asking permission. We say things like, “Hey, I’m gonna be over on your side of town to be, will you be home tonight? I’d love to just stop by and say hi.”
Jim: Yeah, it’s kind of like how you would treat a friend of yours. You would call and say, “Hey, are you gonna be around Tuesday? I’m in your area.”
Dr. Koch: I love that.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: Because you just made the comment that your son has delighted in this newer, uh, friendship relationship. By the way, one of the things that was really hard in writing the book was finding out that parents who think they did everything right so that they could be a friend with their kids later are now not friends with their kids and it’s been devastating to them. And so again, we do what we can do in hopes that it will turn out well, but it’s never too late. It’s never late, too late to, you know, not live in denial and recognize that we maybe were doing some things that weren’t great, you know, to ask for forgiveness perhaps, to apologize perhaps, and for us to say to our kids, “Hey, could I stop by for 15 minutes?” I think what’s, what’s interesting about that limit, I’d love to, you know, “I, I made your favorite cinnamon coffee cake. Could I stop by? 15 minutes, I’ll just stay.” And no joke, you guys, that gives the kid the freedom to say yes because 15 minutes isn’t a three-hour visit-
Jim: Right. (laughs).
Dr. Koch: … when you don’t know, maybe your son or daughter had work to do at home that night.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: Or a really important FaceTime call with somebody else that you want them to be friends with or whatever the ca- they just wanted to go to bed.
Jim: I love that idea.
John: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Koch: They had a movie to watch or whatever.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: And so you, you set the mental timer. Or I have friends who actually set the timer on their phone for 15 minutes, they walk in and it buzzes and they say, “Hey, 15 minutes,” and they leave. Now, if the kid says, “Oh, stay a little bit longer.” Like that’s fabulous right?
Jim: That’s an invitation.
Dr. Koch: Right? But I think the limit is really a blessing.
Jim: Yeah, that’s great.
Dr. Koch: Shows respect.
John: And, you know, Kathy, uh, you said something earlier about parents who don’t have a relationship with their adult kids. And I, I know several, we probably all know several-
Dr. Koch: Mm-hmm.
John: … uh, families going through that where the child is the one that says, “No, I don’t want the relationship.”
Dr. Koch: Mm-hmm.
John: Offer some encouragement to that parent because that’s a really hard place to be.
Dr. Koch: It is. I appreciate that, John, and it is happening far too often. Um, first of all, I wanna say this, most parents parented really well with the information they had at the time. So I don’t want every parent to think that they’ve done something wrong that has caused their adult child to distance themselves from them. There can be influences on the adult kids. There can be any number of things that have happened. So don’t look back and think, “Oh, if only…” In fact, I write about the if only and the what ifs. “Oh, if only I would’ve prayed more.”
John: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: You know, “What if we would’ve changed churches earlier?” “What if I wouldn’t have sent my kid to a public school?” We can, we can do that all day long and it’s not necessarily gonna help us find peace and hope in that situation. So I think that’s important. Go forward more than look back. Um, if you realize that there is something you’ve done wrong, own it. Take responsibility for your stuff. And again, I say you did the best you knew how to do in the moment. And yet if you’re recognizing, whoa, you were distant, you know, you traveled and you didn’t work to relate to the kid when you got back from the business trip or whatever, own it, uh, apologize for that if you feel like you, you should-
John: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: … if sin was involved, asked to be forgiven, I think those things are important. One of the things I’ll comment on that might be hard for people to hear is that the research is clear that the more that we helicoptered our children, the more likely it is that they’re gonna distance themselves from us now. So if you over parented, if you did demand, if you were in control, if you asked every little nitpicky question-
John: (laughs).
Dr. Koch: … if you made them study next to you because you didn’t trust them in the bedroom, all these things were done really with love in your heart, but now the kids are afraid you don’t know how to be a different mom. If the only mom they knew was the helicopter mom that hovers over the breakfast bar while they’re doing their homework, and now they do wanna be independent. Now they do wanna mature on their own. This is how life is supposed to happen. They don’t think you can parent any differently, but you can if you choose to-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: … back off, give them the space and the place where they discover why they are the who they are and actually find out that you did a good job as a mom.
Jim: So much of what you’re talking about in the book for us as the parent of the adult child is seeing your blind spots.
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: But even the statement is incongruent. It’s hard to see your blind spots.
Dr. Koch: Yes. Yes.
John: (laughs).
Jim: That’s why they’re called-
Dr. Koch: Blind spots.
Jim: Blind spots. ‘Cause you don’t see them. In fact, you used a term in the book, uh, for the parent, which is the story you tell yourself.
Dr. Koch: Yes.
Jim: And I, I related to this one too. It, it speak to that idea of the story you tell yourself as a parent.
Dr. Koch: Right. No, I appreciate what you guys are talking about here. So let’s say that you reach out to your, your adult daughter and you want her to visit, and she has said no three times in a row. And maybe she even gave you a reason. You know, “Katie has a soccer tournament.” Or, “I’ve got an assignment due for my supervisor and I need to work at home tonight.” So there were reasons, but your, the story you tell yourself is she doesn’t love me. If she loved me, she’d come over. If she loved me, she’d allow me to visit. Or the story you tell yourself is she has time for everything else.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: But she never makes time for me. And those protect us, but they’re lies because we’ve chosen to not believe our adult kids. Now, what’s awkward is maybe the adult kid doesn’t value you. So the story you tell yourself is, I have no value in my daughter’s eyes. She doesn’t care anymore at all. That’s the story you tell yourself every time she says, no, no, no, no, no. Sadly, that might be true. So then you ask her, like, “The story I’m telling myself is that you have no interest in my life at all. Is that right?” “Well, no, that’s not right.” “Well, then why do you say no all the time?” “Well, I told you that Katie has a soccer game-
Jim: (laughs). Right.
Dr. Koch: … and I had an assignment due for work and I told you that Jonathan wasn’t feeling well.” “Oh, so those are true statements? So what day in the upcoming week would we be available together to have coffee?” “Oh, well, I don’t have time.” “Okay, now that just told me that you don’t value me.” Is that making sense?
Jim: Oh, it does.
Dr. Koch: So you have-
Jim: I just feel even that statement feels strong coming from the parent.
John: Mm.
Dr. Koch: And, and-
Jim: But I get laying out the groundwork.
Dr. Koch: Come on.
Jim: I, no, I know, but I mean-
Dr. Koch: Yeah, we earn the right to say that, right?
Jim: Yeah. Yeah. But it is a different era. I mean, a different time in your parenting now where you gotta say it.
Dr. Koch: It is.
Jim: I would say it with a little more happiness, like, “Hey, do you wanna, do you wanna grab coffee next week?”
Dr. Koch: Right, right.
Jim: Rather than-
Dr. Koch: So I’m gonna accept that you’ve been busy the past week, so thanks for being honest with me.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: What about the upcoming week? Can you glance at your calendar real quick?
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: I’m free Tuesday and Wednesday.
Jim: You know what this is reminding me of is, and Dr. Dobson, he talked about this on the old Focus on the Family program, Harry Chapin’s song, you know-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … Cats and the Cradle.
Dr. Koch: Oh, yes, come on.
Jim: I mean, it’s right there, you know, so the essence of the song is dad, as his child is growing up-
Dr. Koch: Mm.
Jim: … he just never has time to play catch or do anything.
Dr. Koch: Mm.
Jim: And then the boy keeps saying, “When I grow up, I’m gonna be just like him.”
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: And then that happens. He goes off to college, he comes home, “I don’t have time to meet with you dad. Can I have the car keys? See you later.” (laughs).
Dr. Koch: Mm-hmm.
Jim: (laughs) “Can I have them, please?”
Dr. Koch: Right, right.
Jim: And it, it’s a whole reflection on the fact that your son grew up to be just like you, meaning no time for you. But now in a different context, you’re the old guy, dad, and, uh, your adult son has no time for you.
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: ‘Cause that’s what, what you did to him.
Dr. Koch: And that’s hard, right?
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: So we, we accept what’s happened and we move forward full of grace for ourselves and our kids. And maybe we talk that through with the spouse if we’re married with even our parents, if they’re alive and they’re healthy for us, maybe a best friend, maybe a pastor, maybe a counselor, say, “Hey, I’m having a hard time getting through this moment in time.”
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: And it’s one of the reasons, and we can talk about this later, that I do write in the book about how important it is for adult parents to have all other identities solid as well. They’re-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Koch: … you’re not just parenting adult kids, you’re a member of a choir and you’re, uh, a neighbor’s best friend and you’re a wife or a husband and you’re, you know, a consultant in this way and that way, and you’re still, you know, an important person at work. Know who you are so that you don’t depend only on your parenting relationship to get your confidence from, if I can put it that way.
Jim: Oh, without a doubt. And I, you know, this is day one. We want you to come back and-
Dr. Koch: Great.
Jim: … let’s continue for day two.
Dr. Koch: Great.
Jim: And we’ve touched on it, but I don’t wanna land. It feels heavy a little bit.
John: (laughs).
Dr. Koch: (laughs).
Jim: There’s hope for you, mom and dad. I mean, this is not the end of the world, hopefully, but even if, even regardless of what your adult child does responsibly, you doing the right thing-
Dr. Koch: Yeah.
Jim: … is the right thing to do.
Dr. Koch: Yes. Oh, say that again.
Jim: Yeah. I mean-
Dr. Koch: Yes.
Jim: … it, it’s just so evident. Yes. And so what we wanna encourage you to do is to get the book, understand, especially if you have conflict in that relationship-
Dr. Koch: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … with your adult children. What you’re responsible for is improving that relationship. There’s no guarantee that the adult child’s gonna change.
Dr. Koch: Mm.
Jim: But that’s not the motivation. It’s to be the light of Christ.
Dr. Koch: Yes.
Jim: To be loving and kind as Christ would be, and to do the things you’re responsible to do, to give the opportunity for your adult child to respond.
Dr. Koch: Yes.
Jim: Yes?
Dr. Koch: Beautiful.
Jim: All right. So let’s do it. Let’s come back next time. Thanks for today.
Dr. Koch: You’re welcome.
Jim: And, uh, let me just say it, the title of the book again. This should be the motivation for everybody going, “I need that book.”
Dr. Koch: (laughs).
Jim: And let me tell you, we are hearing from so many parents of adult children right now.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: The donor community, the constituents that engage with Focus. I know you’re living in this spot. Um, even more serious things than what we were able to get to today, but come back tomorrow, we’ll cover some more content. Order the book, Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Your Adult Children. Who doesn’t want that?
John: Hmm. Yeah, call today. Our number is 800-232-6459. Uh, make a donation as you can, and, uh, we’ll send that book, Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children. Uh, right away, you can go to our website and download Dr. Kathy’s, uh, Declaration of Release. She’s given us, uh, that to offer you for free, so stop by FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast. And of course, if, uh, today’s conversation brought up any concerns, if this is a space, as, as Jim said, that you’re living and there’s tension, ask to speak with one of our caring Christian counselors. Again, our number 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.
Jim: Kathy, again, thanks for being with us. Let’s come back and hit it again.
Dr. Koch: I’d love to.
John: And we hope you’ll join us next time as well. And thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
