Preview:
Dr. Larry Taylor: Committed to prayer. I know my baby, I know my son and daughter, and I wanna place them in an environment that they’re gonna be mentored, discipled, pray, uh, seek counsel, and ask a lot of questions.
End of Preview
John Fuller: That’s Dr. Larry Taylor, uh, joining us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly for what will be an insightful, encouraging show about standing strong in Christ in school. And today, we’ll have some exciting news for you about a federal tax credit that allows you to support the school of your choice, even public schools, and provide scholarships for students. You’ll hear more information about that later on, and we’ll have details about that tax credit on our website. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: John, I think every parent wants their child to grow up with a strong mind, a tender heart, and faith toward Christ. I mean, that’s what we as Christian parents hope for with our, uh, parenting journey.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And, uh, parents today are facing a lot of questions. There’s a lot of challenges bombarding them as the social media situation, how much screen time, that’s one of the biggest questions we get here at Focus on the Family. But what about their schooling? How is that going? What are the choices? Should I homeschool? Do I put them in a charter school, a private school, a Christian school? And then with colleges, where are they gonna go? And what’s the best value for the money?
John: Mm.
Jim: And, uh, man, we’re gonna try to address some of those questions today to give you the parent information to allow you to talk it over and think about what are those choices and what are your goals and aspirations for your child.
John: Yeah, this is kind of a high-level look, and we have two great guests with us uh, here in the studio, Dr. Larry Taylor, who is president and CEO of the Association of Christian Schools International, and he previously led two Christian schools for many years. And then remotely from California, uh, Dr. Barry Corey, the president of Biola University. And both of these men have decades of experience in education.
Jim: Oh, they do. Dr. Taylor and Dr. Corey, welcome.
Dr. Taylor: Thank you.
Jim: Good to have you.
Dr. Barry Corey: Thank you.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Corey: Nice to be here.
Jim: Uh, let me say, uh, our vice president of marriage, uh, Greg Smalley went to the Rosemead School of Psychology out there at Biola, which is your school there. At the college level, how difficult is that to maintain biblical truth with, you know, young people that are coming in with all kinds of different worldviews? I, I’m sure it’s not monolithic, but how do you as a Christian educator keep that the core thing?
Dr. Corey: Well, um, it has to be the core thing, right? Um, there are too many stories of that central mission not being the core thing or being eroded along the way. So, I mean, we … You- you know, Biola’s 118 years old, so we’ve been doing this for a long time.
Jim: (laughs) Right.
Dr. Corey: And so when Dr. Smalley, uh, you know, talks about his experience here, I mean, I get it. I mean, I see that from our 5,567 students and, um, I, I think they come to places like Biola, and there are many places, Biola’s not the only one that, that hold strongly to God’s enduring truth that matters today.
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Corey: Um, but we also wanna do that in a way that we’re giving students kind of education that’s can prepare them for the world that’s before them. But it’s a, it’s a daily discipline. Um, we’re always having a conversation, how are we staying faithful to our mission and how are we preparing our students for what they need?
Jim: Yeah. It’s so true. And I think that’s, that’s kind of the point you want as a parent to make sure you’re doing your research and where those good schools. Now, let’s back up. You start with K-12, Dr. Taylor- (laughs)
Dr. Taylor: That’s right.
John: (laughs)
Jim: … with ACSI, and you’re working with how many schools do you work with at ACSI?
Dr. Taylor: In the United States, about 2,300 schools, but around the world, um, close to 25,000 schools.
Jim: I mean, that’s amazing, the reach-
Dr. Taylor: Yeah.
Jim: … and the breadth of that. Uh, for both of you, and I’ll start with you, Dr. Taylor, when you look at the culture, there are some big issues that are in the culture today. What concerns you most, especially with K-12, and I’ll come to you-
Dr. Taylor: Yeah.
Jim: … uh, Dr. Corey in a moment.
Dr. Taylor: Yeah.
Jim: But K-12, cultural inputs, what is making your job challenging today?
Dr. Taylor: Yeah. Well, i- it’s, it’s exciting, especially here in the United States. Um, every day, 55 million kids are going somewhere to school, either-
Jim: 55 million?
Dr. Taylor: Yeah, yeah.
Jim: I don’t think we know that number. That’s huge.
John: (laughs)
Dr. Taylor: 50 to 60 million.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Taylor: It depends on who you talk to, but around 55 million. And, and they’re going, uh, as you mentioned earlier, a variety of places. And I think the, the, the challenge before pastors, school leaders, parents, um, I would say id- the identity, just the identity crisis of being comfortable in how God wired them and created them in His image. And I think that’s, that’s probably one of the most, one of the greatest challenges today for anybody-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Taylor: … that’s hanging around young people.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Taylor: It’s just their identity. “Who am I?”
Jim: You know, you think about that. You have a child right now, today, he’s, uh, or she is a kindergarten student, first grader. Eventually, Barry, (laughs) that child’s coming your way, hopefully.
Dr. Corey: (laughs) Yeah.
Jim: They’re gonna go to college. That’d be a good thing. Now, college has kind of lost a little bit of its edge in terms of trades and other things and young people choosing not to, you know, invest a, a large amount of money into that education. So I guess for you, uh, Dr. Corey, at Biola and, you know, representing Christian higher education, what are the things that keep you up at night?
Dr. Corey: I think there’s, students are, are disrupted. There is, uh, an instability in our culture. And, you know, for us, it comes back to, you know, what is really enduring and lasting. And we see that as God’s truth in His Word and His world. Students are, uh, are distracted with so many, um, uh, devices and temptations to lead them in this direction or that direction. I think students are disillusioned in, in many ways. And I see that in kind of coming here and, you know, wondering like what, how do we live Christianly and in a world where it’s, it’s so hard.
And I think students can come here with some distortions on, you know, the way God intended things to be with, with sex and sexuality and, and marriage and life and, and what justice is and what does it mean to live a life that’s counter-cultural. And so we inherit these 18-year-olds and, and our responsibility is to take them to the next level of their faith and form them in a way that they’re ready for when they, when they leave Biola.
Jim: Yeah. Larry, let me ask you, when you, uh, are looking at families and that educational choice, ACSI of course is gonna promote a, a Christian education. Sometimes parents are looking for protection. We want our kids to be in a safe environment. A Christian school hopefully would be able to supply that. The reality is that’s not always true. Kids are kids no matter where kids are.
Dr. Taylor: That’s right.
Jim: And you’re gonna have some bullying issues, you’re gonna have other issues. But why should parents look strongly, if they can afford it, which is a whole ‘nother issue-
Dr. Taylor: Yeah.
Jim: … why should they look at Christian education as a very favorable way to go?
Dr. Taylor: Yeah. Great question. You know, I think when we look at God’s Word, I mean, it’s very clear that parents are assigned the important task of spiritual formation. Psalm 78, Deuteronomy 6. And formation is messy. Uh, you’re exactly right, Jim. Christian schools, (laughs) you can’t have a bubble nowadays. You just can’t have a bubble. Christian schools are not perfect.
Formation is messy. The, the opportunity as a parent checking out a Christian school, the opportunity to mentor ambassadors and not activists, a fine line there. Uh, so if I’m a parent looking at a Christian school, I’m looking to, whether it’s preschool up through 12th grade, I’m looking carefully. Um, and how, how are they forming? What, what is their intentional plan? Is it complementing what we’re trying to do at home? Uh, complementing, uh, what we’re doing at church? But I’m, that … You know, just dropping a kid off at any Christian school, I don’t recommend.
Jim: Well, and I wanna challenge that too, because I think we as parents, and I think I did this to a degree that we’re gonna put the boys in a good school and, you know, that has a, a faith orientation. It was a charter school started by Christians. But I think I expected, “Okay, they’re gonna do a lot of that job.” And I did what I could. But I, I’m just warning the parents, you gotta be … It’s like your medical situation. You gotta be your advocate.
Dr. Taylor: Yes.
Jim: And I think for your children’s education, you need to be their advocate. Uh, don’t just put them in the system and let them run down the conveyor belt-
Dr. Taylor: Exactly. Yeah.
Jim: … to bury at college level, right? (laughs)
Dr. Taylor: (laughs)
Dr. Corey: Exactly.
Jim: But, but in that regard, um, again, the choices there, there are a lot of good Christian educators in public schools. I wanna make sure we say that.
Dr. Corey: Absolutely.
Jim: I, one of them helped lead me to Christ when I was in high school in a public school, my football coach.
Dr. Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Jim: So they are there and they need that recognition as well. But again, that’s something, wow, do, am I gonna be able to trust that?
Dr. Taylor: Yeah.
Jim: And I would say as a parent, if there are better ways that you could go, look at those choices, correct?
Dr. Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I, you know, I, I often think of the word congruent, uh, congruency. Any place, church, school, uh, baseball, doesn’t matter, any place that’s gonna have one second of my child’s brain that day, are they congruent with the message of God’s Word, the message that we, uh, we being the parents are, uh, trying to, uh, instill in our home. But I, I think at the end of the day, the most important thing that a parent can do in selecting who’s gonna spend time with my child’s brain and heart-
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Taylor: … is, are they … I, I like how, uh, Acts 19 talks about the School of Tyrannus. When Paul took 12 men, 12 men for a long time, every day to the School of Tyrannus. And of course, these men were the ones who took the Gospel to the, to the world, but they beat up ideas. Is that Christian school gonna be a school of Tyrannus? Are they gonna take on life issues, whether it’s in the humanities-
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Taylor: … math, science, whatever? Uh, are they gonna form my child’s mind and heart to whatever God’s assignment is for that child?
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Taylor: And we know God has an assignment for every child. Is that school gonna be a school of Tyrannus, prepared for anything that my child is gonna encounter-
Jim: Wow, that is good.
Dr. Taylor: … for the rest of their life?
Jim: That is really good.
John: Mm-hmm. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guests today are Dr. Larry Taylor, President and CEO of the Association of Christian Schools International, and Dr. Barry Corey, the President of Biola University. Obviously, this is a high level look at, uh, the landscape of education, uh, from, from kindergarten all the way through college.
We have so much for you at our website to help out. We’ve got the Thriving Student Podcast, we have articles, uh, audio shows, videos. We have our Age & Stage newsletter. It’s all there for you and, uh, just stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. You’ll find all of these resources and so much more.
Jim: Larry, let me, uh, pry a little bit more on performance in K-12. Um, we read again in, uh, news reports that test scores are falling. Uh, different schools seem to perform slightly differently. It’s hard to compare, uh, Catholic schools, and Protestant schools, and public schools, and charter non-affiliated religious (laughs) schools.
Dr. Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Jim: When you look at that landscape, what seems to be working well in the methodology that we’re seeing? Catholic schools tend to perform pretty well.
Dr. Taylor: I would encourage, uh, people to look at Cardus on a- Cardus think tank, uh, out of Canada, uh, extensive research on exactly what you just asked. Uh, they’re on their … It’s a, just a longitudinal research on comparing Catholic, Christian, homeschool, public, private, everything. And they study students 6 to 21 years after they’ve graduated.
Jim: Oh, wow.
Dr. Taylor: So it, it’s, uh … I think it’s, uh, prob- … It’s, it’s my go-to when I, when I study what is working, what is not working. It’s very clear, very objective, and it’s encouraging. Uh, it’s encouraging when we talk about Protestant, which is what mostly ACSI schools are, Protestant based. Uh, one of the most important things as a, just a US citizen, all right, just, um, not getting into what’s best, private, public, whatever, is can kids read? Can kids-
Jim: (laughs) It’s kind of basic.
Dr. Taylor: You know, today, uh, those 55 million kids that, that go to school, only one third … Now, this is, this is sad. Only one third of those children in eighth grade are proficient in reading.
John: Mm.
Dr. Taylor: So, uh, just as an American, when we think about our, our world, our culture, um, the future of the United States-
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Taylor: … uh, or, or wherever you live, uh, we’re talking about the basics, you know, reading and math. Um, and I think it’s very clear how are the students performing on the objective testing? That, that’s hugely important. Obviously, the, uh, the discipleship of their heart and mind, that’s the cornerstone. That, that is number one, top priority. But at the end of the day, if God really has an assignment for every child, and-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Taylor: … and, and I believe that God does, that assignment could be that they, they, uh, God wants them to be an engineer, um, a lawyer, a doctor, a pastor. And that means that their brain matters. And so performance in, uh, in some of the basic fundamental educational segments, uh, is hugely important. Uh, as a disciple of Christ, uh, it’s important. But just as a, a citizen of this great country-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Taylor: … it’s important that these 55 million students are, can compete with anybody in the world scholastically.
Jim: Yeah, read and write and-
Dr. Taylor: Yeah.
Jim: … you know, do arithmetic, those things. Barry, I wanna ask you philosophically, uh, you know, the late Chuck Colson was a good friend of mine. We talked often about education. That was a, a passion that he had in addition to the prison ministry, Prison Fellowship that he founded. But, you know, he made some comments that really got my attention, which is in underperforming schools in low-income neighborhoods, et cetera, that we’re locking these children in to a life of poverty because they cannot access education that will help them to rise above their circumstances. And when you look at it that way, that we’re, in essence, condemning a child born in a poor family, in a poor neighborhood with poor performing schools, it’s going to perpetuate poverty.
Dr. Corey: Yeah. And I, and thanks for bringing up Chuck Colson. Um, and I think if, if Chuck was on your show talking about this, he would just say, you know, “Hey, play the long game. Um, it’s gonna be, take some generations to change this.” Um, but the students coming to Biola, and I, and I, I use this distinction more and more that students, um, come here for what they want and discover here what they need.
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Corey: Um, and so when I see students that are saying like, you know, “Hey, I wanna go into the inner city and make a sacrifice and go through either, you know, teaching those schools, charter schools, public schools, um, Christian schools.” You know, I think they’re saying like, “I, I’m gonna be part of the solution-”
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Corey: “… um, to those places that are often seen as less than. Um, I might not make enough money, it might not be as prestigious on my resume, whatever it might be.” So-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Corey: But I just sense more and more that this generation is more in- interested in making a difference than they are in making a million.
Jim: I think you’re right. I do. The Gen Zers seem to have that passion. You know, for the, the mom or dad listening to this, it, it can feel overwhelming, Larry, you know. :I, I gotta do homework now.:
Dr. Corey: Yeah.
Jim: “You know, I’ve just had this baby and now I’ve gotta start thinking about their educational path.” Um, how do you suggest that they simplify this? I, Barry just got to it, you know, kind of look at the long game, but what are those practical simplification ideas about educational choice?
Dr. Taylor: Yeah. Well, you know, we have 6,570 days from the time a baby’s born until a principal will hand them a diploma.
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Taylor: So as a parent, um, I, I, you know, to simplify how 6,570 days, where, uh, parents know their babies better than anybody. And I would encourage parents to just take a step back and to think through, not the, not the money initially. I mean, we know it costs money, but to think through, I know, I know my son, I know my daughter, is, what type of educational learning environment will they most likely thrive in? And, um, I, of course, I’m biased. Uh, I’m gonna encourage them to go to a Christ-centered, um, uh, option. But at the end of the day, um, there is so much information that parents can, uh, connect to as they are exploring, uh, the local options.
But I wanna encourage your listeners, I wanna encourage all the moms and dads and the grandparents, uh, to take a step back, to commit it to prayer, uh, seek counsel, and ask a lot of questions. Don’t just think that because a school has Christian in their name, that they’re all the way authentic. (laughs)
Jim: Yeah, it’s called being in a fallen world.
Dr. Taylor: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Jim: Uh, you could put church in there, you could put so many things-
Dr. Taylor: Yeah.
Jim: … in there because we’re not perfect and, uh, that’s just the way it is. Let me, let me ask both of you this. Um, you know, again, many parents may only feel they have one option, that’s public school. So if you’re in that position where you don’t have the resources financially to do private school or Christian school, how do you make the best use of that time and how do you encourage them to stay engaged? I mean, you’re both educators, so forget the, the difference between university and K-12 for a minute. W- you know, if you’re just consulting or counseling parents of younger children, again, who have to be in public school, what would you say to them?
Dr. Corey: Um, well, let me, um, maybe approach it a little bit differently, uh, Jim. And I would say, thinking when it comes to maybe public higher education, that is certainly an option and often seen as a less, uh, expensive option. But I would, some practical advice that I would give to parents is that one, remember that between the ages of 18 and 22, they’re some of the most transformative years-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Corey: … in a human being’s life relationally, intellectually, spiritually, interpersonally. So those are years to do it well.
Jim: Boy, that’s true.
Dr. Corey: Second, at least apply to a Christian college. You know, there are hundreds of them to look at, but at least apply to one. Three is like, look beyond the sticker price. I mean, sometimes you say, “Well, I can’t a- afford that.” Look at how expensive it is. Well, there’s so much financial aid that’s available. Financial aid counselors are gonna work with you. So I would tell them to, like, don’t just eliminate a Christian college university, um, just because you look at how expensive it is or, you know, how, you know, far away it might be from your home. So I, I would encourage them to, to think about that.
Jim: Yeah. Those are good thoughts.
Dr. Corey: Yeah. And then, um, realize that faculty can form you more than you re- than (laughs) than you might, might think. And so what major you decide to choose in a, um, public university or a university that doesn’t have any kind of Christian background, I think will, you know, get … I mean, do the research. Um, know where those graduates go, know what those faculty members teach and where they studied. And do think that that matters. Um, get involved in a kind of campus ministry.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Corey: And there’s so many. Uh, Chi Alpha and Reform University Fellowship and, you know, Navigators and Cru and, um, you know, on and on it goes. Uh, so I think that, you know, InterVarsity, I think, I think th- that, that matters as well. And get involved in a local church.
Jim: No, that’s good. K-12, Larry, getting more practical there where, you know, a parent can’t afford an option. How do they make the best of that situation spiritually?
Dr. Taylor: Yeah. I love what, what Barry just said. I think the … Uh, first of all, I mean, there’s just thousands of parents every, uh, every Sunday that are sitting in those pews, and they really, really, really want their kid to be, uh, in a Christian school. But they, they … I love what Barry said, they look at the tuition.
Jim, I have literally counseled thousands of parents, family, friends, thousands of parents. If there’s a little bit of interest in sending your son or daughter to a Christian school, take a step in that direction. Don’t let the tuition, uh, especially if you have more than one child. And so parents kind of give up. They, “Well, I, I, I can never afford that school.” Um, God is in the business of working that part of the equation out. And, and-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Taylor: … Barry hit it perfectly. Take a step. It’s amazing what God can do. There’s financial aid. There, you know, there’s tuition assistance. There’s the school choice, many of our states, and now with the federal, uh, tax credit. But take … Don’t, don’t just look at that tuition and give up.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Taylor: God can show up in some really powerful ways.
Jim: You know, you mentioned that federal tax credit, that’s something new for the 27 tax code. It was voted in. Uh, describe that briefly, because this is really good news-
Dr. Taylor: Yeah.
Jim: … for parents and grandparents.
Dr. Taylor: It’s excellent. Uh, at the, at ACSI, we, we consider this a watershed moment. Uh, it’s incredible. Uh, you have, uh, $1,700, every tax paying citizen in the United States, dollar for dollar, a federal tax credit for $1,700. So if I owe the government $5,000 of my taxes, uh, I can donate, uh, $1,700 to, uh, SGO, and I can unpack that later. And instead of sending my $1,700 to the United States, I’m gonna send $1,700 to the school of my choice.
Jim: Right.
Dr. Taylor: Uh, I can designate a Christian school. And so the, the federal tax credit is gonna give, um, families incredible opportunities, uh, for, uh … You know, again, they might have a state school choice option, but the federal tax credit is … Uh, at ACSI, we, we’ve been doing school choice for over 20 years. Last year, we, uh, allocated $15 million to about 3,500 students. We think this is gonna ex- with the federal tax credit, it’s gonna exponentially increase.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Taylor: Uh, we, we are an SGO. We’re a scholarship granting organization. Uh, it’s called the Children’s Tuition Fund. And, uh, and this is the g- … Everybody, everybody can participate. It, it … We finally have a national sponsor a child program. (laughs)
Jim: Right.
Dr. Taylor: And so, what an encouragement for the 55 million students, what an encouragement for the parents to have an opportunity, uh, now at the federal level, uh, to, um-
Jim: And that’s targeted-
Dr. Taylor: Yes.
Jim: … to the school, not to the student directly. I mean, that’s a, that’s an amount that comes to the school for use.
Dr. Taylor: Yeah, yeah.
Jim: But you can target the school.
Dr. Taylor: Yeah.
Jim: You can say, “I want that money given to-”
Dr. Taylor: Yeah.
Jim: You know?
Dr. Taylor: I can, I can do a, a general, you know, uh, or I can designate a specific school. It’s dollar for dollar, a $1,700 federal tax credit. What an opportunity to support, um, faith-based, uh, education? And by the way, it, it’s also the, this $1,700 federal tax credit is for all school choice, homeschool. It’s even for public school.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Taylor: Uh, I don’t think people realize-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Taylor: You know, they’re, uh, they can contribute the $1,700 federal tax credit and they can designate it to go to a public school.
Jim: Yeah. And that is good news, and you should look into it. John will give details. We’ll have links and connections and information that you can-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … pursue that. Uh, thank you both for being with us and for talking with us about these decisions, the environment we’re in, and the hope that you have. I so appreciate it. Dr. Corey from Biola and Dr. Taylor, ACSI.
Dr. Taylor: Thank you.
Jim: Thank you both.
Dr. Taylor: Thank you.
Dr. Corey: Thank you.
Jim: And we have quite a few follow-up materials for you, uh, articles and other things that can help you and your child’s educational goals, including the new federal tax information. You’ll find that at our website for those details.
We also mentioned a free Age & Stage program you can get involved with. This was born out of my experience with Trent, our oldest at a pediatrician’s office, where they gave me a sheet and said, “Here’s what you can expect in the terrible twos.” And it’s kind of geared for that. Zero to 18, you’re gonna sign your child up, put your child’s birthday in there. We’re gonna age that journey right with you. Zero to 18, every week. 936 weeks, by the way, zero to 18. And we’re gonna give you the content to help you think about all the, uh, spiritual formation issues and other issues that you’ll face as a parent.
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sign up for the Age & Stage newsletter at our website.
And, uh, we have plenty of other resources there, including the Thriving Student Podcast and a free video series on Raising Your Kids with a Confident Faith. All of that is available and so much more at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Or give us a call and we’d be happy to tell you more over the phone. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.
Well, thanks for joining us for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ.
