Dr. Jim Burns: Not only did God create your body, but that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. And if your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, then that means that the person that you’re dating, also their body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. So you treat them with a radical respect.
John Fuller: That’s Jim Burns offering a word of encouragement to parents about teaching your children about sexual integrity. He’s our guest today offering help for moms and dads from a biblical perspective. And, uh, with that, welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: John, Jean had a great idea, uh, about how to create a Bible study for the boys when they were like in fifth, sixth grade. And that group, both of them, Trent’s group and Troy’s group, lasted all the way through high school. They’re best friends now and well into their twenties.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And I remember the talk, and I remember the guys, the dads, we all got together. The kids were probably like 13. And we’re like, okay, who’s gonna do that Bible study for the boys? And it’s one of those that we all stepped back and one poor father was the guy that forgot to step back.
John: (Laughs) Last man standing.
Jim: There’s the volunteer. And, uh, so we, you know, we coached him on how to give this general talk. But the good news, I think, with that group is it did create a lot of trust between the sons and the dads. And I think, and, and particularly kind of cross-discussion. There was a really cool dad in the group. So a lot of the boys went to that dad to say, “Okay, what do I really need to know here?” And he’s a reserve sheriff, and very fun, had a great sense of humor, and he just did a beautiful job. And I think he was the one that ended up doing that, uh, talk with the boys. But of course, we all did our talk. The important thing is here is when you have children in that age group, you know, 10, 11, 12, 13, have you done enough to prepare for that discussion?
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: It’s not gonna be just one discussion. It’s gonna be, you know, this is what it’s about and this is how to contain it and how to honor the Lord in it. And this is the consequence if you don’t.
John: Yeah. And Jim Burns, uh, is gonna just emphasize so many great practical things for us to talk about with regard to these discussions. Uh, Jim is a very popular podcaster, speaker, writer. Uh, he’s just got so much wisdom and biblical perspective. Uh, he’s the father of three adult daughters. And, uh, the book that forms the foundation of our conversation today is called A Student’s Guide to Sexual Integrity: God’s Plan for Sex and Your Body. And you’ll find more about Jim and his ministry and this great book, uh, on our website, and that’s FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast. And obviously a topic like this one isn’t going to be suitable for younger listeners, so please keep that in mind as we begin.
Jim: Jim, welcome back to Focus on the Family.
Dr. Burns: It is a pleasure to be with you guys. Before the broadcast, we were all laughing. Hey, and by the way, I was the youth pastor who always had to give that talk to the families.
Jim: You were the guy.
Dr. Burns: And my daughters were so embarrassed. They would, when they realized-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Burns: … I was gonna have to do that, they would be ducking, giving me scowls. Like, “Why are you the guy doing this, Dad?”
Jim: Yeah. That has to be horrible for your own kids in that setting.
Dr. Burns: Oh, terrible. Yeah. And then I write a book on sexuality-
Jim: (Laughs).
Dr. Burns: … and they just, they go, “Oh, this is just ridiculous.” And, and they also say, “And plus, Dad, you were awkward when you talked to us.”
Jim: Yeah. Well-
Dr. Burns: “You can talk to other kids, but you were awkward when you talked to us.”
Jim: Well, that’s what, you know, so many have said, you know, when you’re speaking to a general group-
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: … especially those of us that do these kinds of talks and help kids think about these things.
Dr. Burns: Right. Right.
Jim: But then when your child is sitting in the audience or it’s you one-on-one-
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: You’re really outta sorts.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: And that, that does lend a bit of credibility for how awkward this can be for parents.
Dr. Burns: Yeah. I mean, it is awkward. You know, some parents didn’t have their parents ever talk to them. In fact, most parents.
Jim: More… Yeah.
Dr. Burns: I was just in Austin and I was speaking to about 500 parents, and I said, “How many of you received good, positive, healthy sex education, uh, when, from your parents when you were growing up?” There were four.
Jim: Wow. In Austin? I’ve thought it would’ve been 494.
Dr. Burns: (Laughs) No, it meant that their, their parents didn’t talk about it.
Jim: Right.
Dr. Burns: And so, again, they got sex education, they’re at a parenting seminar. But the fact is, um, it’s usually kids get their information from the internet. They don’t get it from their parents.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Burns: Yet, research shows that the more positive value-centered sex education kids receive from home, from their parents, listen, this, the less promiscuous they’ll be and the less confused they’ll be about their sexual identity.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Burns: That’s an important issue.
Jim: You know, one of the things that I’ve observed is the way that we hand this over to the world.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: Not that it’s within our power to do that, but the world talks about this incessantly.
Dr. Burns: Totally.
Jim: And then we back up. I’m sure people even hearing us mention this is gonna be the topic went, “Oh, turn that off,” or-
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: “How could we talk about that in public?” This is a good thing, everybody. This is the Creator’s gift to us in the context of marriage. This is His wedding present to us. I’ve always enjoyed thinking of it that way, but a lot of people in the church, you know, it’s “No, no, no, no, no.”
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: And then you get married, “Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.” It’s really hard for women particularly, but also some guys too, to kind of flip that switch.
Dr. Burns: Yeah. Well, you’re right. It’s really confusing. Mixed messages like crazy.
Jim: Well, and how do we do that in a healthier way to say, “Okay, first of all, God created this. This isn’t evil.”
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: When you do it out of context, it is sinful.
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: But it’s not what the Lord intended.
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: So how do you go there first?
Dr. Burns: Well, I, I actually think you mentioned, I, you talked about God. I think we need to bring God up. He is after all the master designer of our bodies. I think it’s important that we, we boast about God. God created you. God created your body. God wants the best you. Yeah, there’s some guardrails, but those guardrails are to make you really a more healthy and successful and blessed person if you follow His roadmap. It’s when you go down the other road, it doesn’t work so well.
Jim: You know, the other key thing here as we get started in this discussion, Jim, is, you know, for those that blew it in high school or at some point, maybe repetitively, I get that. This is one of those areas of the human heart that has such a grip on us.
Dr. Burns: Yeah, true.
Jim: That’s why pornography-
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: … is so addictive. And you know, there’s just something about this area of the human experience-
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: … that many people are taken down.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: Many pastors can’t control that appetite. And one of the things, rather than hiding it-
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: … bringing it to the light.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: Dealing with it, getting help is such the better, uh, pathway.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: And that’s what the Lord wants outta this. So if you’re in that spot and you’re going, “Oh,” you’re cringing because that was a weakness for you, we get it. That was true of me in high school as well. So the point of that is, what do you do once you become the Christian that God has called you to be? How do you behave in that context? You in the book talk about four core temptations that young people are gonna face. What are those four?
Dr. Burns: Well, one is peer pressure or the, or the pressure to conform. I don’t think there’s been a generation, we’ve all had peer pressure when it comes to sex and sexuality. But today because of things like YouTube, TikTok, Snapchat-
Jim: Oh, overwhelming.
Dr. Burns: Um, today, kids are embracing a lifestyle of sexuality that they don’t even understand. But I, I think the culture is throwing that at us. And, and there’s a peer pressure. I mean, you know, you’re, you’re a 13-year-old girl, you’re a 13-year-old guy, and you know, you don’t wanna identify as heterosexual because the kids are gonna mock you for that. And again, I’m not saying all, you know, culture is horrible. And yeah, they’re the ones who are doing the teaching ’cause we didn’t do a good job. That’s, we’ll have to get to that. But, you know, peer pressure. The other one is emotion, the emotional involvement that exceeds their maturity level.
So a lot of kids make sexual decisions based on emotions. “I’m in love.” Well, it’s love, but it’s puppy love. We know that as adults, but they don’t. So they make decisions based on, on the whole idea of, of, you know, puppy love. Plus it’s everywhere in the culture today. I mean, my goodness, I, I was watching the, the World Series a year ago and I was looking at some of the commercials and they were kind of sexual in nature, but they’re selling shampoo.
Jim: Right.
Dr. Burns: So today, kids have so much of that, you know, being thrown at them.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Burns: So I think there’s just so many different, um, aspects that just are constantly bombarding us. And one of the other issues is frankly, that our parents don’t talk about it. So-
Jim: Healthy Christian views on sexuality.
Dr. Burns: Healthy Christian views. So kids honestly don’t know.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Burns: I was talking to a girl not too long ago, and I love this kid. She’s about 16 years old. And I said, “So are you gonna take the view of culture, um, which changes rapidly? Or there’s a master designer who created our gender and it seems like he’s done really good for years and years, and now just recently, there’s some changes going on. And so we have to see who, are we gonna go with the creator?” And then I said, “You know, there’s a time when, if you ever saw an art piece,” and I said, “I’m not really a good guy to talk about art, ’cause I don’t know a whole lot about it. But if I went to see an artist, I would rather have the person who created the artwork tell me about it than somebody who just had an opinion about the artwork.” And I said, “That’s what we’re doing with our sexuality today.”
Jim: Oh, that’s a good analogy.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: That really is. I think the other one that you mentioned, the fourth thing is negative self-image.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: That’s so powerful today. I think, again, because of social media, et cetera, really, boys experience this as well.
Dr. Burns: Yes.
Jim: But girls feel it deeply.
Dr. Burns: Sure. That’s true.
Jim: You know, we don’t measure up and you-
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: You begin to develop a negative self-image, then somebody shows you attention and then manipulates that into physical intimacy.
Dr. Burns: Yeah. Well, you, you said it better than I did. I mean, it’s just really well said, because when kids have a poor self-image, or I, I like to call it an improper self-image, we’ve gotta teach them that they were created in God’s image.
Jim: Right.
Dr. Burns: And that’s an important, you know, concept. But if they have that poor self-image, they’re gonna do anything to, uh, to get the attention. And sometimes it’s in the world of sexuality, other times it’s other stuff. Us guys, we do goofy stuff because our self-images are, are poor and we want somebody to like us or somebody to appreciate it. Not, not you when you were growing up.
Jim: (Laughs).
Dr. Burns: All the… John and I did.
John: Yeah.
Jim: Did I give you the speak for yourself look?
Dr. Burns: Your morals-
Jim: No, I’m teasing.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: We’re all there.
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: And I was like, you know, I was on the football team.
Dr. Burns: Sure, sure.
Jim: So I’ll leave it at that. But the point of all that is-
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: … young people today are getting a lot of input. And moms and dads, this is why we’re doing the program.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: To encourage you to embrace that God-given role, the biblical role-
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: … of mentoring your children, even in these tender, maybe-
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: … especially in these tender areas of human sexuality and what it means to be committed heart, soul-
Dr. Burns: Right. Right.
Jim: … and body to the person that you’re married to or going to marry. I mean, that’s kind of it. I’ve tried to do that with my boys. There is so much pressure though, uh, and so much accessibility.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: So let me ask you that, as a parent now, speaking parent to parent-
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: What do you do with a 10, 11, 12, 13-year-old?
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: What’s your goal as the parent?
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: Because I think Jean and I went, “Yep. Build the wall. Let’s go.”
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: We put all the filters on. We talked to them and said, “Hey, all the filters are on. So beware, if you look at something, we’re gonna know about it.” I’m being a little over the top-
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: … but you get the idea.
Dr. Burns: No, no, but I think, I think you’re right, that that’s what we’ve done. What we didn’t do was go farther. And I’m not saying this is with you and Jean, but I think a lot of times, we built the walls, but we didn’t say why we’re building the walls. We didn’t help them understand that aspect. And we also didn’t say, you know, when we look at sexuality created by God, it’s not that, it’s this. So even when you’re a kid at age 10, the boys are probably gonna have seen pornography. I just saw, you can Google me on this, but it’s eight- 11.8 with young women now. So-
Jim: 11.8%?
Dr. Burns: No, 11.8 years age that they see it.
Jim: Oh, wow. The average age?
Dr. Burns: Yeah. So that’s why we gotta talk to ’em younger.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Burns: But the point being is we have to, even if they see it, you have to say, “No, it’s not this.” Now’s your chance to be able to talk to them and say, “No, it’s this,” you know, and again, you’re going back to the aspect of God created sex, God sees it as very good. That’s Genesis 1 and 2. Does He have guardrails? Sure, He has guardrails. This is what adultery is. This is what, uh, fornication slash immorality, there’s a Greek word, porneia, which is translated correctly in the scripture now immorality. But it, it’s also what we used to use with fornication, which means sex outside of marriage. So God put up guardrails, not because He’s the great killjoy, but because He wants the best for us.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Burns: And sometimes parents are afraid to have that conversation, you’ve mentioned this, because they didn’t do it right. Or they struggled with porn, the dads struggled with porn. The moms maybe were promiscuous. And what I always say to ’em is, you don’t have to tell them everything, but you do wanna say, “Look it, one of the reasons I have a passion to help you make good decisions is because I didn’t always make good decisions.”
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Burns: And just kinda leave it at that. But we need to be authentic with how we do this. And really, we have to change the narrative. You know, it was, um, Francis Schaeffer, a-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Burns: … theologian from a long time ago, said, “Every generation, you have to recreate the way you communicate the gospel. You don’t change the gospel, but you recreate the way you communicate it.” Well, I think we’re in a generation today as parents and with kids that we have to recreate the way we communicate sexual integrity and not just try to shame them into, you know-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Burns: … doing it, or only talking about the walls.
Jim: You know, Jim, I’m thinking, I’m thinking of, uh, you know, when I have a psychologist on, we’re talking about affirmation versus negative.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: And I, you know, all the research shows you have to have at least five affirmations to overcome one critical criticism.
Dr. Burns: Right. Right.
Jim: Uh, I think I would apply something like this in this space. You need like five positive discussions with your, your child-
Dr. Burns: Sure. Right.
Jim: … for every negative input that’s gonna hit them.
Dr. Burns: Yeah. Right, right.
Jim: Right? To give them a healthy perspective.
Dr. Burns: No, I think, I think we do that. And what I say is, instead of one 100-minute conversation where you sit him down at the table and you kind of go through the whole thing, I don’t think that works. In fact, research says it doesn’t work. I think we have 100 one-minute conversations.
Jim: Mm. I like that.
Dr. Burns: So, so we’re looking for ways to do it. So you’re watching a television show and you see two girls kiss and you go, “Hey, what do you think of that?”
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Burns: And you know, you put it on pause or you, they tell you about a, a song that they heard and you kind of go, “Hmm, well what do you think about that?” And then you begin teaching through a positive, what I call a theology of healthy sexuality, meaning theology is just the study of God. What does God have to say about it? And healthy sexuality is about our bodies. So you do that and all of a sudden you’ve had these talks for a c- years with them, and that’s a lot better than the one-minute sit at the, uh, table and then you go for an hour and you-
Jim: Yeah. Y- You know, one of the difficulties with that, if I could speak on behalf of the awkward parents, which we, I think we’re all that at some point, it’s how you respond in that moment. What you just said there, unfortunately I perceive is the minority response. Meaning when you say, “Uh, wow, what just happened there? What do you think of that?”
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: Normally I think we as the Christian parents say, “Hey, hey, what are we watching here?”
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: “Let me, where’s the remote control?”
Dr. Burns: Right. Right.
Jim: And then we leave it, we don’t have that discussion. I really want parents to hear what you just said.
Dr. Burns: Yeah. Yeah.
Jim: You’ve got to ask a question.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: Like, “What does that communicate to you?”
Dr. Burns: No, exactly. I think we have to listen a lot more to our kids. We have to be students of culture.
Jim: That’s hard. Why is that so hard for us as parents?
Dr. Burns: Well, it is ’cause we wanna tell ’em. And a lot of times, we’re right.
Jim: (Laughs) It’s a lot easier.
Dr. Burns: And plus, we’re right a lot of times. However-
Jim: A lot of times?
Dr. Burns: It’s, uh, uh…
Jim: (Laughs).
Dr. Burns: Sometimes parents aren’t right. I’ll just say that right now. Yeah.
Jim: In our mind, it’s every time, Jim.
Dr. Burns: Yeah. But if you’re, if, in your kid’s mind, it’s not every time. And, but the point that I’m saying is it’s, yeah, we’ve gotta have these kind of conversations so that they make the decision, not we… We do the… That’s about our spiritual faith as well. Becoming Christians. I can’t become a Christian for my kids. It’s the same with making good, healthy sexual decisions. So to do that, there have to be more, you know, kind of questions and dialogue. And when the kids get used to that, then they’ll open up. But that’s why when kids are three to five, you say, “Hey, God made your body. God made boys and God made girls.” And then you even name body parts. And I know that’s awkward, but we’d need to name those body parts like age three to five. That’s sex education without talking about the kind of things that, you know, you talk about when, to your teens.
Jim: There’s two goals and they’re not necessarily the same. One is to protect them-
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: … from bad situations.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: The other is to equip them from making the right decisions to not be in bad situations.
Dr. Burns: Man, you’re singing my song.
John: (Laughs) Well, Jim Burns is our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And, uh, we’re talking about some of the content in his terrific little resource, A Student’s Guide to Sexual Integrity: God’s Plan for Sex and Your Body. And, uh, we’ve got this and, uh, other resources to help you in this conversation, this ongoing conversation with your child, uh, all at our website, and the link is at FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Jim, uh, I want to ask this question and it, it is just one that popped into my head, but I think it’s so critical how we as parents become that safe place.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: You know, kinda like what we set the program up with-
Dr. Burns: Yeah. Right.
Jim: … that dad, and this guy is Mr. Cool-
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: … and he has great stories and funny and the boys gravitate to him because he relates to them.
Dr. Burns: Right. Right.
Jim: And he’s very interesting.
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: How do we become that safe place-
Dr. Burns: Yeah. Yeah.
Jim: … for our kids to want to and trust that they could come to us with a question on sexuality and they’ll feel healthy in that transaction?
Dr. Burns: Yeah. Well, part of it is us not preaching and lecturing. We have to lead with love and know that kindness matters. And I think we have to do that. And, and I think it’s important for us to have dialogue. And the earlier we start this, the better. To be honest, it’s gonna be a lot easier for teens if we’ve already been having these conversations. The question I ask is, who’s the safest person for them to talk to about sex? My dad and mom were not the safest people. You know why? Not because they were negative, they just didn’t ever talk to me about it (laughs). It was just nothing. So I wasn’t gonna go learn about the birds and the bees from them ’cause I wasn’t gonna ask them questions. They never brought it up. They ask about my grades, they ask about my sports, they ask about my friends, but they never brought up a very important subject for me, which was dating and sexuality and all that kind of stuff. So we become the safe ones when they say, “You know what? Mom will listen to me. Dad will listen to me and not be super judging.” And you know, because a lot of times they’ll start going in on something and then we do the interrupt thing where we say, “No, absolutely not.” You know, they’re, they’re all wrong and they’re… And maybe they are wrong, but I think we need to hear them out-
Jim: Yes.
Dr. Burns: … because they’re exploring. Sometimes when they’re talking to you, it’s not like they’ve made up their mind, which goes against the grain of, you know, their spirituality or you know, the Bible. They’re just trying to explore with you. So we have to be really patient, I think, and let them kind of talk through that why. A lot of questions, and the questions help.
Jim: Yeah. You mentioned in the book, this integrity code that-
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: … guided you. What is the integrity code and how do we apply it?
Dr. Burns: Yeah, yeah. I think it’s, what I love about the integrity code is I don’t think it’s a shaming thing. I think it’s something that’s really awesome that kids can look for. And I think they need a roadmap.
Jim: Describe it.
Dr. Burns: So the integrity code goes like this. In honor of God, so we’re gonna bring God into the picture, um, in honor of my family, we’re gonna bring the family into the picture, and the family usually isn’t in the picture either. See, so God and my family, and all that God wants for me, so you’re looking to the future, all that God wants for me, I commit to sexual integrity. And so when kids do that, there are kids who say that thing. And we had purity codes and we had other things that kind of didn’t work so well.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Burns: But this here, when… I mean, who doesn’t wanna live with sexual integrity? And then you explain what sexual integrity is, the Bible, very biblical. Um, honor God with your body. It’s right outta the 1 Corinthians 6:20. “Honor God with your body. Renew your mind for good.” I tell kids, the most powerful sex organ is not your private parts. It’s your mind. And so we renew your mind, Romans 12:1-2. Then it’s turn, “Your eyes from worthless things,” taken right outta Psalm 1:19. And then, “Guard your heart.” And I’ll say to people who are adults, I’ll say, if your parents taught you about sex education, did they teach you how to guard your heart?
The Bible says in Proverbs 23, “Guard your heart above all else, for it determines the course of your life.” So it’s not a scripture just on sex, but if we could get our kids to learn to guard their hearts… Yeah, and that’s, I mean, that’s a money issue. It’s a faith issue. It’s a sexual issue. If we could teach them that early, that’s their roadmap. Now, there’s a lot of other things you gotta talk about. You’ve gotta talk about purity, you’ve gotta talk about all kinds of other issues, dating, all kinds of things. But when it comes to it, that’s the overall roadmap. And I love that integrity code. And you know what? Kids sort of get it and they go, “Okay, I can do that. I wanna do that.”
Jim: Mm. Yeah. Call to something higher.
Dr. Burns: Yeah. I did that with my daughter Heidi. We went through it at 16 ’cause I took her on the one night overnight date. She got 11 with her mom and at 16 with me. And she goes, “I want that.” And when she said that, I mean, “Tears came up into my eyes.”
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Burns: Because I didn’t know how she was gonna react. She was the cute, fun, popular, uh, cheerleader girl. And I didn’t know what she was gonna say. She goes, “I want that.”
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Burns: But it was as if she didn’t know that. And I wish I wouldn’t have waited until she was 16 to-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Burns: … help her with that.
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now, along those lines, Jim, in the book, you have a story of a young woman who I think she was like 16, 15, 16 at a sleepover, and she was encouraged by friends to try some things sexually.
Dr. Burns: Yeah. Yeah.
John: So the culture’s here and the kids are sometimes caught between good things-
Dr. Burns: Oh, they are. Yeah.
John: … the parents want them-
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
John: … to do, and the, and the cultural forces.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
John: What’s the story and what’s the lesson?
Dr. Burns: It’s, it’s a really interesting story. And I think parents need to hear this because, uh, she was 14. I’m gonna call her Katie, but that’s not her real name of course. And, uh, she was one of these girls who just a great kid. We know her personally, we know the family.
John: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Burns: And, uh, but she didn’t like wearing dresses and she didn’t wear pink and she was better than most kids in so- boys in softball. And, you know, she was just a neat kid. But because she didn’t dress like a girl, um, in her mind and other people’s minds, she had a friend who said, uh, she had learned two weeks ago what a lesbian was. And so the friend said, “You know, I think I might be a lesbian.” She goes, “What’s a lesbian?” She explained it. And she goes, “Well that’s, that’s weird.” I mean, she didn’t know. She was pretty innocent. Long story short, within a pretty short time, they were in a relationship.
John: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Burns: And so she began to identify as a lesbian at 14. And, you know, I was a youth pastor. When kids, girls, 14, cut themselves or they had an eating disorder, nobody thought that was a good idea, but she got all kinds of, you know-
Jim: Affirmation.
Dr. Burns: … embracing-hood and affirmation. So she goes, “Well, I must be.”
John: Mm.
Dr. Burns: About a year and a half later, so it’s a longer story. About a year and a half later after this big conversation at the sleepover, about a year and a half later, she went to Christian camp. They weren’t even talking about sex, but as she grew in her faith, she went, “I don’t think I’m one of those.”
John: Mm.
Dr. Burns: And so she has made the road sort of out. Now today, she’s 18 years old, she’s a freshman at Biola University, and she’s doing well, but she has baggage. So I just got chills because I don’t, I’m so happy for her, but I also know she’s walking a, a harder life because of the baggage-
John: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Burns: … at 14.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Burns: She was so innocent. Low self-esteem, we talked about that earlier, and her emotional involvement with this girl exceeded her maturity level ’cause she wasn’t even sure she was, but she, she, by the way, she still doesn’t wear a lot of dresses.
John: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Burns: Okay? But she now feels secure in her sexual integrity and her sexual identity.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You know, Jim, that gender dysphoria thing is so disruptive and you just look at the data.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: And again, everything you’ve talked about here from a biblical standpoint is the antidote to so much of that.
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: Good self-esteem, your identity in Christ, that God chose your gender-
Dr. Burns: Right.
Jim: … right from the womb as you were created.
Dr. Burns: Right. Right.
Jim: Um, you know, science can tell us some things in there and, and some of those, uh, facts right now are kind of so disturbing. Four to 9,000% increase in gender dysphoria.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: That’s not genetic. That’s, when you have that kind of thing, that’s peer pressure. And it’s cool to be this. Why are we allowing this to happen?
Dr. Burns: Right. No, we’re seeing this change. And what’s interesting is the research isn’t coming from Christian input. It’s coming from the secular world.
Jim: Right.
Dr. Burns: And, you know, I did my PhD in England and, uh, where I learned that, you know, a very small percent of boys around eight years old had a gender dysphoria experience, but it was hardly a, it was a blip in the screen. And all of a sudden now, like you said, you used huge numbers. So what we have to understand is that that doesn’t just happen over a couple of decades. That’s an issue of the culture. And so we can get angry at the culture, or we can say, “Wait, there’s some things we can do about this.” And again, we still have to lead with love and practice kindness, but we’ve gotta help these kids understand their identity that’s rooted in Christ.
Jim: Yeah. Let’s end here. Uh, you use the term radical respect.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: I like that.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: Radical just seems to fit. You know, everybody wants to be radical.
Dr. Burns: Yeah. Right.
Jim: What’s radical respect?
Dr. Burns: Well, radical respect is teaching kids that not only did God create your body, but that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. And if your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, then that means that the person that you’re dating, also their body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. So you treat them with a radical respect. So it’s not just that, oh, this girl or this guy is cute, this girl or this guy, you know, they have a fun personality, but no, they’re actually a child of God. And so we honor them with, um, a radical type of respect. And part of that is, uh, in our sexuality, part of that is in the way we treat them. Part of that is in just how we relate to, not just in terms of boyfriend, girlfriend, but anybody. It’s how we as men relate to women. We, we relate to them with a radical respect. I wanna teach a million kids to radically respect the opposite sex, or we’re talking about same-sex relationships (laughs), you know, with a radical respect. And that means we’re gonna treat them as if God lives within that other person’s body, because He does.
Jim: And I, you know-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You can achieve that as a parent. That’s, that’s the goal.
Dr. Burns: Exactly.
Jim: And that’s the thing.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Jim, this has been great. There’s so… We could just keep going on this subject, but, um, you know, we’ve done a good job of kind of skimming the surface of your book, A Student’s Guide to Sexual Integrity: God’s Plan for Sex and Your Body. And, uh, the rest is up to the parents and the grandparents where they have that good permission from the, uh, adult son or daughter. Get a copy from us here at Focus on the Family. Uh, this is probably, when you’re looking at the most important parenting component, I would say this is it, because the culture is coming at your kids.
Dr. Burns: Yeah.
Jim: This is specifically for teens, A Student’s Guide to Sexual Integrity. So get in touch with us. Uh, you can make a gift of any amount. We’ll send it as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. Seriously, $10 would be great, and we’ll send you the book.
John: Yeah. Get in touch today. Our number is 800-232-6459. That’s 1-800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Or you can stop by FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast. And coming up next time, one couple’s journey through infertility to discover something better for their family, adoption.
Heather Avis: But there is another side, but you have to go through it. You have to sit there. You have to be in it. And let God’s grace-
Jim: Huh.
Heather: … meet you there. And then you’ll find your way out. There is a way out.
