John Fuller: Today on Focus on the Family, we’ll explore how to find God’s peace when you’re struggling to find joy in motherhood.
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Ashley Willis: But really, I think that we have to take an assessment of what kind of expectations do we have for our children and also what kind of expectations are we allowing to be placed on us. And this is where that definition, that real definition of God’s peace, shalom, comes in because I think sometimes, we allow ourselves to be ruled by expectations.
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John: Well, some great thoughts from our guest today, Ashley Willis, and your host is Focus president and author Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: John, I’m so glad we’re continuing the conversation with Ashley. Uh, we covered so many important topics yesterday about motherhood. I love the idea of peace pirates that we talked about. Ashley explained that these pirates represent things in your life that can easily steal joy from you, specifically in parenting. And one of the biggest peace pirates that I think all parents have struggled with is control. So often we want to manage our kids behavior. I, Jean and I did this. We were guilty of it too. Every parent has had that moment in the grocery store where their kid just won’t stop crying, and you feel so embarrassed. What, what can I do? I got to get out of this situation.
John: Yeah. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting good behavior, but we really want their hearts to want to be good, right?
Jim: Yeah, that’s the journey, right? We don’t want our kids to have surface level character. We want it to go deep, and that’s what’s going to take them forward into adulthood and be successful. Um, another peace pirate we covered yesterday was expectations. Boy, we’re hitting all the big ones. Every parent has expectations for their children, but also, for themselves, pretty high standards. And they can so easily become unhealthy expectations. We can’t let those expectations rule over us. We need to have them, but we also need to evaluate what’s controlling us. It can so easily steal the joy and peace that God is giving us.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And our guest today is going to help us rediscover that joy that we often lose sight of.
John: Yeah, we’ve got Ashley Willis again, and, uh, she’s going to help us understand how we can find God’s peace in parenting. Ashley is an author and mom to four boys. We can tell you more about Ashley and her book, Peace Pirates when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. That’s 800-232-6459 or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And Jim, here’s how you began the conversation with Ashley on Focus on the Family.
Jim: Let me ask you something, and I’ve seen this, you know, typically when we have moms and we’re in-interviewing moms. Women have such a capacity to put the guilt on themselves.
Ashley: Yes.
Jim: You know, I didn’t do enough.
Ashley: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I’m the shortfall here. It’s my fault, whatever.
Ashley: Right.
Jim: And men, I think our egos block that a bit. We’re like, “Eh, it’s the other guy’s problem.” Right?
Ashley: Right.
Jim: It’s that person. But women just do have this capacity to say, “You know what, I need to own up to it.” Talk to that ’cause to a degree that can be really healthy. In the Christian walk that seems very laudable. But when it goes to extreme, it becomes unhealthy.
Ashley: Right.
Jim: So, help women understand that balance of taking on that guilt trip.
Ashley: Man, I can relate to this so much, and I do talk a lot about this in the book because we really need to pay attention to the, what we’re believing, like our own self-talk. And I know, for me personally, I’ve had a lot of years where I just had negative self-talk. I allowed the enemy to really get a foothold and convince me that I was completely missing this whole motherhood thing. And, and maybe even, I mean, in the beginning, I even believed, just, I didn’t have, like, the proper motherhood instincts and so therefore, I wasn’t gonna really be that great of a mom. And I was just kind of sloughing along here, just trying to figure this out, even reading every book I could get my hands on. And, um, and I think that, I, I would speak to the mom who constantly feels like she’s missing it. I would challenge her to really, every day, think of one thing she got right. And that’s not necessarily, you know, to be conceited or anything like that, but just to look for the positive because we do have to really be careful of really looking at ourselves and saying, “Am I self-assessing or am I self-condemning?”
Jim: Right.
Ashley: Because there’s such a difference there, and it’s good to self-assess. It’s good to go to the Lord and say, “Lord, you know, where am I doing well and need to continue? And where are there blind spots?” Because we all have them. We’re human beings. Where can I improve as a mom? But, if you’re constantly believing lies and hearing yourself kind of beat yourself up saying, “Well, you missed that again.” Or “I guess you let him play games too much and that’s why they’re not on this certain reading level.” Or “You know what? It, it’s because of you that he’s not potty training when everybody else is potty training.” Or whatever it is, we do really take that on. And if that’s what we’re doing, it’s constantly just, you know, degrading ourselves. That’s not good.
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: We need to start flipping it around and thinking about, you know, where can we improve, but also, what are we doing right? Because I guarantee you, every single one of us, has at least one thing we’re doing right. Maybe it’s bringing laughter to the family. Maybe it’s that you’re, you’re great at keeping the house organized. Maybe, you know, I mean, that’s something that-
Jim: Keeping the trains running.
Ashley: Keeping it … right. I didn’t even think our boys noticed this-
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: and then they, they, they were staying somewhere else where it wasn’t as organized and they have since been like, “Mom, you do so much to keep our house organized. Thank you.” And that just meant the world to me, and I thought, well, I guess that isn’t a waste of time. I guess that does help our family kind of keep going.
Jim: Yeah, it’s effort that’s recognized.
Ashley: Exactly, so we all, we all have those things, but we do need to, to think of those things. And I would even say to spouses listening, especially husbands. Commend your wife on what she’s doing right. I, I can’t underestimate that. Like, it’s just, it means the world when you point out that we’re a good mom. Like, it-
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: it, it means the world in, in the same way, wives should do the same for their husbands.
Jim: It’s so true. That’s a good way to go. I, I want to put a little, uh, emphasis on moms and control.
Ashley: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And partly because I saw this firsthand with my wonderful wife, Jean.
Ashley: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I mean, having two boys, that was one of the things that, as they became teenagers, it became a battle.
Ashley: Ooh.
Jim: You know, they’re trying to kind of expand their, uh, wings, and-
Ashley: Yes.
Jim: she’s trying to keep them kind of hemmed in a little bit.
Ashley: Right.
Jim: And we would have, you know, discussions about that and, you know, it may be time we need to back up a little bit.
Ashley: Right.
Jim: And to her credit, she really did let go in the proper way, not totally-
Ashley: So good.
Jim: but it changed everything.
Ashley: Mm-hmm.
Jim: It changed her relationship with our boys. It changed her relationship with me.
Ashley: Right.
Jim: I mean it and it – most importantly, it brought her more peace, more shalom.
Ashley: Right.
Jim: And I could see it.
Ashley: Yes.
Jim: So speak to that mom that is still in that battle, and what Jean would say is, “I just wish I would’ve understood that earlier.”
Ashley: Oh. I echo what she said because I, we always, you know, my husband and I always tease and say we are such different parents with our fourth as opposed to our first.
Jim: Right.
Ashley: Because we don’t let the little things bother us as much, and we do give a little more.
Jim: Right.
Ashley: You know, and with the first, I feel like I was so, just, you know, trying to keep a tight ship and, and feeling like I’m failing miserably. But I would say to the mom who’s, who feels, you know, just like things are, you know, they’re with those teenagers specifically, and maybe it’s not even a teen. This can happen earlier, especially if they’re a strong-willed child.
Jim: Right.
Ashley: And we had several of those.
Jim: Right.
Ashley: And they, they really just, you know, they, they have such a strong mind that really sees things a certain way, and, leadership qualities, ’cause it’s not all bad, I mean, people, you know, it’s hard raising strong-willed kids, but that can serve them well in life. But I think it’s really giving them choices when, when you can give them choices.
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: really helps go a long way. I think, too, remembering to choose your battles. I mean, my goodness, how many times I’ve had to learn that the hard way. Like, is this really worth the fight? Because, if it, does this have to do with life altering things? Or is this just details? Because if it’s just details, it’s not going to alter their life, maybe it’s not worth us all losing sleep over it and having arguments. That’s really helped me with teenagers. You know-
Jim: Yeah, that’s true. I, I remember, I would say mountain or mole hill?
Ashley: Yes. I mean, true.
Jim: Or something like that just to help trigger a little different thinking in that regard.
Ashley: Yes.
Jim: You actually, now I’m sorry to just put all of your, uh, mommy failures on display-
Ashley: I’ve had a lot of them.
Jim: But you wrote it in the book.
Ashley: Yes.
Jim: But you talked about this potato chip-
Ashley: Oh goodness.
Jim: incident in your car. Give us that one. That was funny, in this control orientation.
Ashley: Oh, my goodness. Again, I didn’t set myself up, necessarily, so-
Jim: (laughs)
Ashley: a dear friend of mine, Lana, uh, she was visiting town and she was … we were wanting to do something fun with the kids. I think Dave was out of town on business. And I was like, well, let’s take all four kids, and at the time, I want to say my youngest was probably one year old, you know, I mean, he’s just a baby. And my oldest was maybe in early middle school. Just to give kind of a frame of reference. We’re all hopping in the minivan. I got my snacks together, including chips, okay. And I’m like, let’s go two hours to Stone Mountain, Georgia, which is this really cool, state, you know, park, where you get to see some really cool things, and there’s an amusement park. So we’re making our way there. I didn’t have enough gas. We had to stop. And, of course, as we go along, and we did not have one of those vans that has movies in it, okay? So, I’m also like, it’s going to be listening to music-
Jim: Entertainment-
Ashley: Right. And, um, as we go along, the kids were just getting more and more disgruntled, and we had to have a couple of stops there for bathroom and bottles and all this different kind of things. And it just progressively was getting worse and worse. And I remember, at one point, there was this bag of chips. Now I should’ve known. I should’ve just put it in little, like Ziploc bags.
Jim: Individually.
Ashley: Hindsight is 20/20, right?
Jim: (laughs)
Ashley: And I had this big bag of, like, Doritos. And they were all kind of shifting the chips around, but I had made this comment that, you know, you only got chips if you were behaving and, and meeting a certain criteria.
Jim: Chip reward.
Ashley: Chip reward, right? Which, you know, yes, tokens usually work. This didn’t necessarily work, so, there was one point where our third child, who I think was probably three at the time, really wanted these chips, but he hadn’t done whatever it was that I said the kids had to do. And, so our oldest, uh, Cooper, starts pulling at the chips and he’s like, “No, Chandler, you can’t have them. You weren’t, you weren’t doing what mom said, and mom said-”
Jim: What a good first born.
Ashley: Oh, totally.
Jim: Way to go first born.
Ashley: Oh, total first born. Yes. I know. I know. And he’s like, that’s not what you said, mom, you said, and I’m like-
Jim: (laughs)
Ashley: “You know what? We’re just trying to get here. We’re just trying to get here. You know, mom, mom did say that. He is a lot younger than you. We’re going to talk about this when we get home but give him the chips.” And he’s like, “But, no, mom. You said. And we are, we are holding to these rules, and you said.” And I was like, “Just give him the chips.” And he was like, “But mom. You are not holding tight.” And the whole time, my friend’s like looking at me like … And, literally, by the end, I’m like, “Give him the chips.” Like, and I think I was growling or something, like, they said it was crazy. But, anyway, I have lots of these. I call it the mom-ster. You get it, the mom-ster? Like monster, but a mom. That’s what it was.
Jim: A momster. Yeah.
Ashley: That’s what it was, but anyway, a mom-ster. But, um, I end up saying, “Give him the chips.” Like, loudly and very, like, with some angst on it. And, uh, he gives it over to them, and he’s like, oh my gosh, so we all kind of paused for a moment, and I think we finally got to the park in that moment. And all of a sudden, like we’re all looking around, and it, and they all said, like, I think one of them goes, “That was so funny. Mom said give him the chips.”
Jim: (laughing) Darth Vader.
Ashley: Like Darth Vader. And so, anyway, we ended up being able, again, to laugh about it. I apologized for losing my temper. But I also had a good lesson about, “But you know, Cooper, I’m glad that you wanted to keep the standard, but sometimes, you know, moms and dads have to adjust based on different scenarios and things.” And so it was a learning thing for all of us.
Jim: There you go. Teaching the first born a little flexibility.
Ashley: Oh goodness, yes.
Jim: Uh, relate to 1John 4:18, where it says, there’s no fear in love, but perfect love cast out fear.
Ashley: Yes.
Jim: This should speak to a mom’s heart.
Ashley: It does. And I love this. I talk a lot about fear in the book because I do think a lot of our decisions as mothers or even the feelings of failure or even trying to control or having ex-excessive expectations, it comes back to this deep-seated fear that we’re missing it, that we’re not going to do right by our kids and that they’re going to eventually not lead the lives that they could’ve led because of us. And, and what I found kind of in, in just the research I did for this book and also my own journey as a mother is that we really can’t lead and can’t parent from a place of fear. And it goes back to this verse, how there’s no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, meaning that when we lead from a place of love, that fear dissipates, and that’s really leaning on the Lord because he, you know, when we trust in him, again, it goes back to trusting the Lord, knowing, he loves these kids even more than we do. And he sees the bigger picture. He’s not just seeing this one day where we feel like we’re missing it. He sees it all and that, when we can really, really lean into love and really cast fear aside, because fear is something where, it’s not always bad, necessarily-
Jim: Right.
Ashley: It can warn us against things and that’s, so that’s a good thing. But when we are constantly in that place of fear, we let fear kind of set up, you know, a home in our heart, so to speak. Then, there’s not room for that love. And so then, we’re not going to be as nice to our kids. We’re going to constantly be snapping at them because we’re afraid that, that we’re not teaching them right. They’re going to embarrass us, things are going to go, you know, wildly wrong down the road.
Jim: Yeah, and then, you know, of course that idea that, that fear actually is also leading to anxiety-
Ashley: Oh, for sure. I mean, there is, there is an epidemic of anxiety, especially among mothers.
Jim: Yup.
Ashley: I, I myself, that’s a big part of my testimony. And a lot of it, you know, that I experienced was in the parenting years of just this deep-seated anxieties of, of failing miserably.
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: And I think a lot of it comes from the weight we feel of being a mother, of knowing that this is a gift, that we don’t want to take it for granted. Um, and that’s a good thing. We do need to know, like, God gave us these kids. It’s a big role that we’re filling. But I think when we allow that to just rule in our hearts, where love is supposed to rule, then we’re missing it. We’re missing the joy that’s in it. And, you know, I’m reminded of this by Mary. I love Mary’s story in carrying Jesus. I mean, she is carrying the Savior of the world. I mean-
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: and we talk about having anxiety or having fear-
Jim: Right.
Ashley: of missing it.
Jim: Don’t mess it up.
Ashley: Yeah. I mean, don’t mess it up, Mary, you know, and then having to do a lot of, going through a lot of hardship in, in her journey. And I’m reminded of this because I think about, you know, after she delivered Jesus, you know, having no place to deliver him except around the animals. The first visitors, you know, are shepherds, people she doesn’t even know. And they’re probably stinky. I mean, I’m a person who’s very, like I have a strong sense of smell, and I think about the animal smells, and like the Shepherds and all the stuff. And here she’s trying to give birth and-
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: and it’s really not ideal. And I think about all the, the things that she could be anxious about. She could be worrying about the germs. She could be worrying about the future, whatever it is. You know, it not going perfectly because she’s carrying Jesus. But it says that, you know, Mary treasured up all these things. That she looked at all this. She treasured up all these things in her heart and she pondered them often. And she actually, in, in the Bible, she’s recorded of doing this twice. The second time she does this, is after they lost Jesus for three days and then find him among the scribes. And it says that she looked at her son learning. You know, probably her first glimpse of his ministry-
Jim: Right.
Ashley: of seeing him become the man. You know, the, the man he’s becoming, and it says she treasured up all these things in her heart and pondered them often. So two very stressful moments. And I just, I look at that as a mother, and I think we can really, really learn a lot from Mary because she must’ve understood God’s peace. She understood that, yes, there’s chaos in this life. Yes, there’s imperfections in this life. But really, when we surrender it all to God, when we trust that God is really still in control, and he has, you know, our, our best in his heart, like he wants good things for us, and he doesn’t waste our pain, that we can have this peace, that we know, we’re in good hands, and we can treasure it up. I love that term, treasure it up because that’s what we need to do. You know, even in our failures, when we can laugh about it, and we can look back and be like, “Man, that was, that was a really tense moment.” And treasure it up or the little, the little glimpses of our kids becoming the person, you know, that God has created them to be, just treasuring up those moments is so important.
John: We’re talking with Ashley Willis today on Focus on the Family, and we have her book Peace Pirates: Conquering the Beliefs and Behaviors that Steal Your Treasure in Motherhood. Details in the program notes or give us a call, 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459. Let’s continue the conversation with Ashley on Focus on the Family.
Jim: Ashley, one of the things, it, it must be the journey, the voyage of the Peace Pirates changes a little bit with age. So when you were the preschool mom, that had to be a little different from the teen mom. So describe that as a mom of preschoolers, what are some of those Peace Pirates? What do they look like?
Ashley: Oh my goodness, it is so different because you’re facing different trials and issues and, you know, as a, as a mom of toddlers, I think that a lot of the Peace Pirates come down to just being exhausted.
Jim: Right.
Ashley: I mean, you’re just exhausted. And this is where I do see mom-mommy martyrdom come in a lot because it just requires, they require so much of our time.
Jim: Right. And it just, it just takes all of that time.
Ashley: It does.
Jim: And then you just kind of wither into bed.
Ashley: You do, yes.
Jim: I just need some sleep.
Ashley: And you’re like, I don’t even know what day it is, and you’re walking around, and you have something nasty on your shoulder from feeding and you didn’t even know it. You know, you’re just kind of like, I’m just in the trenches.
Jim: Especially bad when you at the grocery store and that happens.
Ashley: Yes.
Jim: What is that?
Ashley: I’ve had that happen.
Jim: Jean had that happen.
Ashley: Oh my goodness, too many times, and you have no idea and you’re like, did someone not see this? Could they just kindly tell me. And, you know, in the teenage years, it looks a little different. I think for me, personally, I really struggled with excessive expectations, like, just-
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: not, you know, especially with that first teen. Not knowing what is this supposed to look like, you know?
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: I, and every, every child is so different, but just really trying to get down to what are those, what are healthy expectations both for my child and for myself.
Jim: Yeah, and I think, I think some of those become even deeper issues with teens obviously-
Ashley: For sure.
Jim: … the culture’s pulling at them.
Ashley: Yes.
Jim: And you’re trying to protect and do all the things, spyware, whatever it might be, right?
Ashley: Right.
Jim: Trying to be that perfect parent.
Ashley: Right.
Jim: And, uh, it’s harder and harder, I think, to be that protective parent. We need to do it-
Ashley: Right.
Jim: but, um, you’re going to, inevitably, I think, you’re going to lose some of those battles and then it’s how do you repair the damage that’s done and love them and make sure they’re, they know that you love them, even though they may have failed, which is so critical.
Ashley: That, that absolutely is critical. You know, I think it was James Dobson who said, “Rules without relationship equal rebellion.” And that, that is something that I’ve held onto because I don’t want my kids to rebel against me and, and even more so, I want to have a good relationship with them. And so, I’ve had to remind myself of this, a lot, as a parent, and especially with teens, be there to lovingly guide them along this because we all make mistakes.
Jim: Yeah, it’s so true. You urge moms to follow the advice in Philippians 4:8. And, again, what’s good about this discussion, I think, is applying it, applying the Scripture-
Ashley: Yes.
Jim: to a, to a mom’s role.
Ashley: Yes.
Jim: So how does, uh, how does 4:8 do that.
Ashley: Yes, I love that verse because it talks about what we should focus on. You know, we talked earlier about what we allow to kind of set up shop in our minds, so to speak, the lies we’re believing, the truths we’re believing. And so, in Philippians 4:8, just to remind all those listeners, it says to focus on what’s true, noble, right, pure, and lovely. And, you know, I, I equate this in the book to this being gold. It’s gold that is from God that can fill our heart and mind and also, pass it on to others. And I think the more that we allow, you know, allow God to remind us of these things, and, and fill our mind with these things that are worthy of praise with, with the good moments of motherhood, then we are more likely to really have that outpouring into our kids and into our spouse because we’re not just full of fear and we’re not just full of condemnation, you know, that we bring on ourself. And so we do need to look for those golden nuggets, you know, and I, that’s kind of what I call it and I know, again, it’s another Pirate reference-
Jim: Right.
Ashley: But there is so much gold, and I think, for me, if there’s something I’ve learned along the way is that I just, I need to remind myself constantly to look for it. And, you know, with teenagers, especially, there’s been a lot of times where it is, it can be really tense because you’re like, man, you know, in a year, you’re gonna be in college, or you’re gonna be in your own job, and I want to make sure you understand this thing. But I think that when you can focus on well, what is something they’ve been doing really right, like where do I see the gold with this kid. When you call it out, it’s so good for your mom heart, and for your dad heart, but it’s also really good for the kids-
Jim: Oh yeah.
Ashley: because I don’t know who said this, but I’ve he-held onto this for many years, but praised behavior is repeated behavior.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Ashley: And, and that’s, I mean, that goes for adults too, but with children, especially, when we can point out those golden moments and say, man, like, with Connor, I shared this story earlier about him praising his friend and being excited for his friend getting an award, even though, he himself really didn’t get a true award, or at least that he was expecting. I, I commended him, I said, “You know what Connor? I said, this is a golden moment because you were such a nice friend, and you had joy enjoying the accolades of others.”
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: And, and I just feel like that’s such, that just shows your character and that’s a wonderful, Godly trait.
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: And, uh, and he’s held on to that. And he continues to do that, and so, as parents, we do have to look for it. I mean, sometimes, we’re really wading through a lot, like, literally-
Jim: Oh yeah.
Ashley: wading through a lot of-
Jim: To find that gold nugget.
Ashley: Yes. Yes.
Jim: Yeah, no, I get it.
Ashley: Yes.
Jim: I get it. You know, right at the end, I want to have you express a story that really caught my heart, um, it’s a heartbreaking story about a good friend of yours who lost her young daughter.
Ashley: Yes.
Jim: After a two-year battle with cancer. W-what, you know, it sounds even awkward to say it this way, but w-what did that awful situation teach you?
Ashley: Man, um, I’ll share briefly the story, so she, my friend Katie Ann, her young daughter was diagnosed with brain cancer. They did everything that every parent would do, you know, getting the best medical help and many surgeries and, uh, by the time she was four years old, the doctors came to her, and they said, “I am so sorry, but we’ve done everything we can do, and this tumor keeps on growing.” And they said, “We can either try some other treatments that may actually debilitate her further, or you can go home and just love your daughter.”
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: And, and just-
Jim: Wow, what a choice.
Ashley: enjoy the years. It, it’s a horrible choice for a parent to have to make. But Katie Ann and her husband, Billy, in that moment, they looked at each other, they prayed, they’re very strong Christian people. And they said, “We feel like we need to go home. You know, we’ve spent all this time at the hospital and at the Ronald McDonald House.” And, um, you know, where they house people who are-
Jim: Oh yeah.
Ashley: you know, their children are going through treatments.
Jim: Talk about chaos.
Ashley: And it is. I mean, complete and total chaos. Feeling completely out of control, and just your heart breaking every day. So they went home, and in that time of going home, Katie Ann and her husband felt this burden to prepare their daughter for Heaven. And, uh, it was just, it, it’s hard for me not to get choked up sharing this. And so, Katie Ann would often talk about Heaven and, and her daughter, Bennett, is her name, would ask her questions. And she’d say, “Well, mom, do you think there’ll be dogs in Heaven.” You know, “What are the angels like?” And, you know, she’d ask all these questions and Katie Ann would just graciously talk to her about it.
Jim: Right.
Ashley: To not … she didn’t want her to fear passing away.
Jim: Right. Yeah.
Ashley: And there was one day where Bennett was talking to her mom and she said, “Mom, do you think when I go to Heaven, that I could send you flowers from Heaven?”
Jim: Wow.
Ashley: And, and Katie Ann kind of paused for a moment, I’m sure holding back tears, and she said, “Absolutely. I be there’s going to be so many flowers in Heaven, flowers you’ve never even seen. And I would love for you to send me some.” And, uh, and she kind of filed that back to memory, really hard, sweet, hard and sweet moment all at the same time. Well, tragically, um, about two months after they took Bennett home, she did pass away peacefully. And Katie Ann did say she says peacefully, she talked about this on her CaringBridge account. And she so beautifully wrote that it didn’t makes sense. It’s that peace that goes beyond our understanding that the Word talks about.
Jim: Right.
Ashley: And she said, you know, they’re never going to be the same. You, you can never fill that void of losing a child, and she said, but it, it was just this unexplainable peace of knowing that she’s not in pain anymore. There are no surgeries. There’s no wires hooked to her anymore.
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: She’s with Jesus. One day we’ll see her again. Well, about two months later, Katie Ann and her husband decided that they probably should move from the home where she passed away. It was just too heavy.
Jim: Yeah. Right.
Ashley: And so they were rolling up a rug and, uh, just preparing to move, and, as they rolled up this rug, in the very middle, like, of the middle of the rug would be, on the back of it, there was something stuck there. And they go to pick it up and it, it turned out it was a puzzle piece and Katie Ann said that was very weird because they hate puzzles, like nobody in their family likes puzzles. And she’s like, how could this end up in the middle of this rug when we don’t even like puzzles-
Jim: Huh.
Ashley: And her husband was like, “Yeah, that’s weird.” And she turned it over and she said when she turned over that puzzle piece, literally, she almost fell down. And she just got cold chills all over her body because on that puzzle piece was one single flower.
Jim: Ugh.
Ashley: And she said for her, it was what she referred to as like a God wink of just him saying, “I see you. Here’s your flower from Heaven.
Jim: Ugh.
Ashley: And, um, you know-
Jim: Wow.
Ashley: You can take that a lot of different ways, but for Katie Ann, she held on to that puzzle piece because she said, “How fitting that that flower was on a puzzle piece because when you’re in the midst of something like watching your child battle cancer and pass away, it’s a bunch of puzzle pieces that don’t fit. It doesn’t make sense. It’s not something we can ever understand this side of Heaven.” But we do know that, that when, when we trust God with the pieces of our life, the pieces that don’t make sense, that is actually where we find his peace.
Jim: Yeah.
Ashley: And so I was just so challenged by my friend choosing to look for pe-, you know, to look for God’s peace, to look for little God winks in her life that could say, you know, from God, just kind of reminding her, “Hey, you can still have my peace even after this tragic loss. It, it just showed me, man, if she can find peace, I can find peace.
Jim: Well, and it’s so powerful. It’s what Jesus was saying, “Guess what everybody. It’s not about this life.”
Ashley: Exactly.
Jim: “It’s about what’s going to come.”
Ashley: It is.
Jim: And, uh, I think we struggle, being human-
Ashley: Yes, we do.
Jim: understanding that, but, uh-
Ashley: Mm-hmm.
Jim: you know, that’s what the Lord is here to unfold for us.
Ashley: Right.
Jim: There’s something bigger, something better. And what a beautiful story. What a way to end this.
Ashley: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I think, Ashley, you have hit it out of the park, man-
Ashley: Oh, you’re sweet.
Jim: you just, it’s so wonderful and what you’ve experienced in your walk with the Lord is just so illustrative and helpful to all of us as parents. Thank you for this great book, Peace Pirates. Uh, don’t let the pirates steal your peace, basically.
Ashley: That’s right.
Jim: And, uh, I think everybody should want a copy of this, and it, we couldn’t even cover all the content in here. And I hope you’ll get in touch with us and get a copy of, of this book. If you can make a gift to Focus for any amount, we’ll send it to you. If you can’t afford it, we’re going to trust others will cover that. So just call us, and we’ll get this into your hands. Um, it is one of those resources I think every parent, every mom should have.
John: And, as you can, uh, make a monthly pledge to Focus on the Family. We’ll send this book to you. We have a website full of great resources for you. And, uh, if you’re facing something really, uh, that we haven’t covered today, but you need some help with, give us a call. Uh, we’re just a phone call away. Our number’s 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Uh, details about the book, how you can donate, and other help is, uh, all captured for you right at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. One of those tools that we have is a free parenting assessment. It is a great little investment of your time. It’ll take five or six minutes and, uh, you’ll get results that show kind of what your strengths are as a mom or a dad and maybe an area or two needing some attention. And we’ll follow up with additional encouragement for you in that, uh, look for that parenting assessment on our website.
Jim: Ashley, again, thank you so much for being with us.
Ashley: Thank you all so much. It’s truly my pleasure to be here.
John: Next time, Dan Seaborn offers a very transparent message on how to be a husband who nurtures his wife.
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Dan Seaborn: But I want you to know, I am just like you. I struggle just like you. That’s what I want you to see.
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