Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Preview:

Matt Jacobson: And this really does go back to that issue of making a choice that says, “I love you,” rather than a choice that says, “I love me.” So that means that we’re kind of ebbing and flowing with each other through the day, and being mindful of where the other person is at.

End of Preview

John Fuller: Well those are some wise words for your marriage. And we’re looking forward to hearing a lot more marital wisdom from guest, Matt and Lisa Jacobson. Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: Hey, John, uh, our goal at Focus, as you know, and we all know, is to help strengthen marriages. Let’s make a good marriage great. Uh, basically, because those of us who claim Christ, it’s a testimony to people who are watching us. And we want that witness to be as strong as possible. We want to honor the Lord in our marital relationships. And I’m telling you, it’s not always easy. Right from my mouth, Jean and I don’t always do it well. We can get on each other’s nerves from time to time.

John: Shock.

Jim: Yeah.

John: News flash.

Jim: In fact, just this morning-

John: (laughs)

Jim: … no, I’m kidding. We had a beautiful morning reading the Word together. It’s so fun. Um, if you’re experiencing kind of the, the clunkiness, uh, and need a tune up, this program today is gonna be for you. If you’re experiencing more serious issues, you know, we have caring Christian counselors, we want you to call. We have a wonderful program called Hope Restored with an 80% post two year success rate, uh, for those marriages that are really experiencing, you know, uh, dramatic stress, potentially even divorce.

John: Hm.

Jim: And we are there for you at that level as well.

John: Yeah, we’d like to invite you to call us if that’s, uh, something you need, 800 the letter A and the word FAMILY. And as I mentioned, Matt and Lisa Jacobson are with us, and they host a podcast called Faithful Life. Uh, Matt is a teaching pastor, and together they write and speak on topics of marriage, parenting, and Christian living. And today we’re gonna be, uh, highlighting a couple of books that they’ve written, 100 Ways to Love Your Husband, and the companion, uh, called 100 Ways to Love Your Wife. Uh, we have both of those at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Hey, Matt and Lisa, welcome to Focus on the Family.

Matt: Great to be with you.

Lisa Jacobson: Thank you.

Jim: No, first of all, 100, we’re not gonna cover all 100. But it’s pretty daring to (laughs), uh, put out 100, uh, ways you can improve your marriage both from a, a husband’s perspective and a wife’s perspective. How did you guys negotiate this? (laughs)

Matt: Well, actually we just thought it was a good round number.

Jim: (laughs)

Matt: Why don’t you, why don’t you tell them the story of how it got started?

Lisa: Well, actually how it began was, we were on a coffee date, just holding hands, and enjoying one of those sweet moments in marriage, after about 25 years of marriage. And I looked over at him and I said, “You know, it’s this moment that is really made out of so many other little choices that are made over time.” And we said, “You know, it’s, a lot of times we talk about the big things in marriage.” And those are important too. But so much of the magic even is in those small choices that you can make each day. And we said, “Okay, you know, it would be kind of fun to figure out. You sit down and write out, let’s say 100 things that you think went into our loving marriage. And I’ll do the same. And we won’t look at each other’s notes, just to keep to authentic.” And just see what we came up with. And so that’s literally how it started. He went over to his corner with his coffee, and I went to mine. And we just started writing. And eventually shared our notes and it became a book.

Jim: Well, uh, on the one hand, you must have a passion for writing, because I don’t know about you John, but if Jean said to me, “Okay, go write 100 ways-

John: (laughs)

Jim: … you can…” I would go, “What?”

John: Days later.

Matt: (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Jim: I mean, it’s a beautiful thing to do. But first of all, that sounds a little daunting. (laughs) So how did you re- respond?

Matt: Well, actually, we have been involved with a lot of couples over the years. And what is in this book, uh, these books, really are the things that we have employed in our marriage. So we’re r- literally sharing the things that we’ve done in our marriage for other marriages to employ. So, a lot of it really was, and I don’t want to make it sound, first of all, that we walk on water, we don’t, because, um, Lisa doesn’t agree with everything I say.

Lisa: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Matt: And-

Jim: Way to go Lisa.

Matt: … so, yeah-

Lisa: Wait a minute.

Jim: (laughs)

Matt: … like, that happened right from the start, you know.

Lisa: (laughs)

Matt: But, but anyway-

Jim: It’s a rude awakening, isn’t it?

Matt: (laughs) It is. But, the thing is that, uh, God has a beautiful marriage for every couple who is willing to do things His way. And the thing is, is people look at a wonderful marriage and they say, “Wow, that couple got lucky. They fell in a hole backwards and just had a great marriage.” But that’s just not the case. A wonderful marriage comes out of making many, many everyday choices that say, “I love you,” rather than choices that say, “I love me.”

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Wow, that is profoundly said. Honestly. Uh, Lisa, you alluded to this, but I want to grab a couple of examples in terms of those small things that make marriages so strong. I’m kind of envisioning, and, and I know some of you mind feel this is trite, but it’s kind of like weaving cloth together, right? Wh- the, the strands of that. A single thread you can snap easily.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But when you weave something together, there’s strength in that. And I hear you saying that. That it’s not the big dramatic moment, the big breakthrough, although those are great. It’s the little things. Give us examples of what those little things are, concretely.

Lisa: Well, for example, this is a small thing, but it has a powerful impact on your marriage. And this is just, when your husband, I’m talking to the wives now, just lighting up and giving him that look you did when you were dating. Just that, “Hey, here he comes.”

Jim: Wait a second. I’m hearing through the microphone people, women are saying-

Lisa: (laughs)

Jim: … “Are you serious?

Matt: Yeah.

Lisa: I am very serious.

Jim: You don’t know my husband.”

Matt: Moan.

Lisa: I am very serious.

Jim: You, light up, come on.

Lisa: Yeah. I make a point of lighting up. And I’ll, if I can, I’ll tell you a story of how this became obvious to me that this is what I need to do. So, Matt and I were out on a, kind of a lunch date, and I was a mother of many small children, and I was tired, I was just, you know, doing the, “And there’s this, and there’s that,” kind of a thing. And, you know-

Jim: Yeah.

Lisa: … just venting with him. And, and he was patiently listening to me. Well, while we were talking, we were out at the, at a mall, a girlfriend of mine walked by. And I sa-, “Oh,” I jumped up, I said, “Oh, Susan.” And I gave her a big hug and I just, you know, lit up. And, and we’d just, yik yak  for a just a few minutes. And then I went back to my, my date.

Jim: (laughs)

Lisa: And, uh, he said, just really kind of quietly, said, “You know, I wish you would do that for me.”

Jim: Hm.

Lisa: I said, “W- do what?” He said, “Oh, just the way you light up. Just how that warm smile for your friends.” I was so convicted, right then and there. I thought, “You know what? I have left off with doing that with you. And you should have that from me.”

Jim: Well, let me ask you about that, because, uh, I think when you live with somebody, you’re married to somebody, you get very comfortable. Sometimes you see a different side of a person in that intimate relationship where you’re together every day, eating dinner together every night, everything. And then, uh, yeah, the girlfriend comes by and, oh, the light up and all that.

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Is it wrong to expect that kind of happiness, uh, that you’re showing a friend? Um, I, I agree that it’s right. But I guess I’m asking the question. (laughs) Uh, how do couples get there? How do you think about doing that?

Matt: Absolutely, well, it is wrong, uh, to fall into that pattern. This is what life does. It, it gets us so busy, the noise of our lives, the busyness of our lives, gets us so distracted that we wind up just kind of getting in this rut, but our head down and plowing this furrow of the next thing that needs to be done, forgetting that the most important relationship we’ll ever have this side of Heaven-

Jim: Yeah.

Matt: … is the person that God said, “You are one with.”

Jim: Yeah.

Matt: And so, one of the things that we like to remind people, and I certainly like to remind men about, is that just take a moment and ask yourself, “When did your wife stop desiring to be desired?” Never. See, that way you kissed her on your wedding day, or maybe even the months leading up and the months right after, when did she stop wanting to be kissed with that kind of passion, and that kind of desire? Never. See, this is something that we need to remember. And she is an important, valuable individual that your job is to pursue and to cherish.

Jim: Yeah.

Matt: And so, that responsibility didn’t change just because a few years went by. So, date your wife before, during, and after the wedding, after the children come, and they go off to college. Pursue your wife. And that pursuit isn’t just a pursuit for sex. That’s a pursuit for her as a valuable person-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Matt: … that God has blessed you with. She’s never stopped desired to be desired.

Jim: But, y- I hear both you describing choices. You know, these are choices-

Matt: Absolutely.

Jim: … that we’re making. We’re choosing to be intentional about dating our wife.

Matt: Absolutely.

Jim: We’re choosing to be intentional about lighting up when my husband comes into the room. Because it can get really kind of blase, kind of comfortable. And, uh, you don’t show that enthusiasm. So, did you guys have to remind yourself, “Okay, I, you know, Matt’s coming home, I gotta light up”?

Lisa: Sometimes there is something like that. Er- uh, so when I was a mother, and I would, before I went to see my kids, who are, you know, all about their noisy, and, and I would take a moment before I walked out my bedroom door, and I would say to the, “Okay Lisa, get your happy mom face on.” Because I saw that it was so powerful to my kids if I came out already grumpy, if I came out, “Hey, good morning.” It’s super powerful. So I’m choosing to do that.

Jim: Right.

Lisa: I’m choosing to… And I thought, “You know what? Why wouldn’t I be able to do the same thing in my marriage?” Now, sometimes it comes more naturally than others. But there are times where I go, “He’s home.” And I have to remember I am excited that he’s here, and I do love him. And we can work out that other thing a little bit later.

Matt: One of the things that is so critical about this, and that we tend to forget about, because we just get absorbed in our own life and our own day.

Lisa: Hm.

Matt: We forget that we’re literally teaching our children what a great marriage is.

Jim: Yeah.

Matt: Teaching them how to do marriage. We’re discipling the hearts of our children by the way we interact with each other.

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, yeah, and another one that you mention is probably one of the more difficult ones for husbands, and that is to stop and listen. I mean, sometimes we’re just problem solving, and we kind of-

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … know the, the statements that are made. You know, “Oh, honey, I think you just need to do this, this, and this.” And she’s not wanting that. She’s wanting you to hear her heart. Um-

Matt: I’m going to tell-

Jim: (laughs)

Matt: … I want to tell this story, okay?

Lisa: Oh, I’m nervous. (laughs)

Matt: So-

Jim: (laughs)

Matt: … (laughs) you should be. So, yeah, and it’s funny. This is one of those iconic moments in our relationship, ’cause I’m a problem solver too. And af-

Jim: (laughs) It’s just innate.

Matt: … and after you’ve spoken for roughly 10.5 seconds, tw- 10, tw- somewhere in there-

Lisa: Something like that.

Matt: … af- after you’ve spoken for a very short period time, of course I don’t need to listen to the rest of what you’re saying.

Jim: You’ve got it.

Matt: I completely understand what the issue is. And just go right in for the solve. You know.

Jim: (laughs)

Matt: So, (laughs)-

Lisa: (laughs)

Matt: … one time, this was way early in marriage, but one time, I was doing that, and she just screamed in my face. She really did.

Lisa: I don’t recommend that. But-

Matt: This demure, loving, woman.

Jim: Yes.

Lisa: (laughs)

Matt: And she said, “I don’t care if I’m right or wrong and understand this. I just want you to know and care how I feel.”

Jim: (laughs) Good for you.

Lisa: Yeah. (laughs)

Matt: Just listen to me. Right? And we look back on that and laugh, but it was a moment of revelation for me that listening is the fix, not in every case and not in every couple. But by and large, listening is the fix.

Lisa: It’s super powerful.

Matt: Making her feel-

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Matt: … heard goes a long way to making her feel that her problems-

Jim: So true, and that’s a heart cry, it, speak t- from the woman’s perspective why that’s so critical. ‘Cause I’m serious, we’re like hard dirt, we don’t understand this at all. Isn’t the value in this quick discussion solving the problem? Can we just get there?

Lisa: You’re, no, you can’t. (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Matt: (laughs)

Lisa: And even if Matt thinks that I, he already knows what I’m gonna say or he understands the problem, he doesn’t necessarily, believe it or not, kn- understand. And it’s important to me to actually say this out loud to get this out there, and to get a fuller picture before you start in on the fix. And sometimes after I’ve said everything, then I’ll go, “Okay, now what should I do?” And he goes, “I thought I was supposed to just listen.” I go, “Okay, yes. (laughs) You listened. Now solve.”

Jim: Yeah. (laughs)

Lisa: So, it can be both. But we really do want to feel like you, that you’re hearing us, that you care about how we feel, and what we’re wrestling with or struggling with.

Jim: Um, now, we got to flip the coin a little bit, because you had an experience too, where I think Matt came home, he came up, you were making dinner, you were really being pulled in a lot of different directions. But he came up and gave you this wonderful embrace, a hug, uh, from behind, just to let you know, “I’m home. I’m in your corner.” It didn’t go down so well, though, right?

Lisa: (laughs) Well-

Jim: What a beautiful thing you did, Matt.

Matt: Thank you.

Jim: I just wanted to say.

Matt: I appreciate the-

Jim: It’s very kind of you to-

Lisa: Oh-

Matt: That being-

Jim: … announce your homecoming.

Lisa: It wasn’t my proudest moment for sure.

Matt: (laughs)

Jim: What happened?

Lisa: So, yeah. I’m th- cooking dinner, I’m sauteing the vegetables in the pan.

Matt: (laughs)

Lisa: He comes behind me, does the loving husband thing, kind of puts his arms around me. And all I could think of is, “I’m trying to make dinner here, the kids are, you know, all noisy, they’re hungry, everybody’s falling apart. And, you know, you’re taking this moment to do the lovey-dovey thing.” And I was immediately convicted though, and I thought, “Okay, Lisa. Here you’ve got a man who’s wrapped his arms around you, and really you’re gonna shrug him off? That’s terrible.” And I thought, “Wait a second. What if I just turn the stove off, and I turned around and leaned back into him.” I don’t know what got into my head. But I did it.

Matt: (laughs)

Lisa: And I did. And boy, right then and there, the whole, you know, kitchen caught on fire. And (laughs) our kids are like, “Whoa. What’s with mom and dad?”

Jim: (laughs)

Matt: That’s one of the joys of-

Lisa: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Matt: … having kids is just embarrassing them.

John: Yes.

Jim: I can see that, yeah.

John: Yeah, absolutely.

Jim: Make them sick.

John: You bet.

Lisa: But I thought, “Yeah. I coulda missed out on that, you know, by being-

Jim: Hm.

Lisa: … so task focused and so, you know, what’s going on in this situation, instead of-

Jim: But, to be really practical, Lisa, I mean, I’m thinking of Jean, we’ve had, uh, similar experience, maybe more than one-

Lisa: Hm.

Jim: … in that way. And you know, she’s a scientist, that’s her background. So she’s really focused on the beaker.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, 14 milliliters of oil have to go into that whatever.

Lisa: Yes.

Jim: So, on behalf of those women, who maybe have that disposition, how do they flip that switch like you did? Again, you’re making great choices all the time. It’s amazing. But, talk to the woman who’s not made those great choices and is, b- you know, somewhat perturbed.

Lisa: Right.

Matt: And it’s two-

Jim: Don’t you know I’m making dinner?

Matt: … it’s two sides too. There’s a women’s side and a husband’s side as well.

Lisa: Well, I’m a get-it-done girl, so you’re right, I am, can be very task focused. And then, on the other hand, I think, “Oh, why don’t we have a more romantic relationship.”

Jim: (laughs)

Lisa: “Why don’t, why aren’t we more lovey? Why doesn’t he hold my hand?” But then you start connecting the dots, and you think, “Yeah, because you rejected him by-

Matt: Shut him down. Yeah.

Lisa: … shrugging him off.”

Jim: Well, it has to be at the right time. (laughs)

Lisa: Which is true. Which is true. But, you can’t, beggars can’t be choosers either.

Jim: Right.

Lisa: So, and I thought, “You know, what does it cost me to just stop right now and communicate a little love?” And not only did it not cost me, but even though I didn’t feel that passion right then and there, it happened, just by, uh, giving it a second or two.

Matt: And this really does go back to that issue of making a choice that says, “I love you,” rather than a choice that says, “I love me.” So that means that we’re kind of ebbing and flowing with each other through the day, and being mindful of where the other person is at. There’s a beautiful, uh, verse in the Word that says, “Live with your wife according to knowledge.” And that means I make a study of this woman, I’m mindful of who she is, I think about her personality, and so I interact with her in a way that is according to who she is as a person, according to knowledge.

John: Hm. This is Focus on the Family on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guests are Matt and Lisa Jacobson, and they’re sharing some insights about how husbands and wives can love each other well. And here at Focus, we’ve got a great tool to help you and your spouse get on the same page in terms of your relationship. It’s our free online marriage assessment, where you can quickly discover what’s working best between the two of you, and potentially some areas for growth, where you can make some improvements. It’s free, and I’ll encourage you to fill out our Focus on Marriage Assessment today. It’ll take a few minutes of your time, and it’s totally worthwhile. The link is marriagemilestone.com

Jim: Um, uh, let me ask you, Matt, um, you thought you were being a super husband-

Matt: (laughs)

Jim: … but getting the dishes done, helping out-

Matt: Oh my.

Jim: … with the chores. I mean, here you are, doing all the tasks that need to be done.

Matt: So true.

Jim: I mean, you and Jean need to meet.

Lisa: (laughs) I can see that.

Matt: (laughs)

Jim: Because this task list thing.

John: That’s so funny. Yeah.

Jim: But you thought you were getting it done.

Matt: Was doing it.

Jim: And what happened?

Matt: Absolutely.

Jim: It sounds wonderful.

Matt: Well, I actually had seen a lot of marriages that I didn’t want. And I thought, “You know what? I am gonna be a super husband.” And so,

Jim: (laughs)

Lisa: (laughs)

Matt: … he, so he’s here. This should work out really well.” And so, I was doing all sorts of things. And if I could vacuum, if I could fold the clothes, if I could help with the laundry, I just did everything that I thought would bless my wife. And she’s over there, washing a dish, and then she sets it down on the counter, almost breaks it. Right?

Jim: (laughs)

Matt: And it’s a good thing towels don’t break, because she threw that in the corner.

Jim: (laughs)

Lisa: (laughs)

Matt: And she turn- I’m, I’m assuming-

Jim: So you’re getting some attitude.

Matt: I’m getting some fire. Yeah, the flames, you know, the white-

Lisa: I have my moments.

Matt: … the flames.

Lisa: (laughs)

Matt: The ones coming out of her eyes.

Jim: Yes.

Matt: Yeah, they were pointed my direction. I’m going, “What is wrong with this woman? I am doing everything. What more can I do?”

Jim: Hold the line. Lisa, what was not being done?

Matt: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Lisa: I didn’t… I t-, well, this is what I said, “I don’t need you to fold laundry. I can fold laundry. I just want to get out of this apartment. I just want to be a woman and go to coffee and have adult conversation.” ‘Cause we had little ones at the time. So that’s what I was longing for. So, all this chore stuff, I could do that.

Jim: Wow.

Matt: Yeah, she, yeah, right. It’s so easy. And I was doing it, all this-

Jim: Well, no, I, I wasn’t thinking that way, actually. (laughs)

Matt: (laughs)

Jim: I was thinking I would have missed that too.

Lisa: (laughs)

Matt: Oh, okay.

Jim: But thanks for the help.

Matt: (laughs) Right, so, she literally was just wanting me to want her.

Jim: Mm.

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Matt: Right? Again, your wife never stopped desiring to be desired. She wanted me to want her, and part of that was saying, “Hey let’s step away from all the normal stuff-

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Matt: … and let’s go have a cup of coffee.” It’s amazing that just focusing on your wife, being genuinely interested in her as a person can turn any cup of coffee into a hot date.

Jim: Yeah. Lisa, you had a girlfriend, I think, in the book you mentioned this, that, uh, was jealous of your marriage. That’s what we talked about at the open, I mean, that’s the way the testimony of our marriage should be, that people see, and go, “Hey, Bob, how come we don’t have that marriage?” Right? I mean, it’s a good thing. I think Christians should be, uh, displaying what it means to have knowledge of your spouse and to love your spouse. And this is part of the experience, spiritually, emotionally, physically.

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Um, but you had a girlfriend that said, “I’m jealous.” What was that about?

Lisa: Well she saw that I spent a lot of time with Matt. We spent a lot of time together, just doing all kinds of things at home, maybe, um, running errands together. And she hardly ever saw her husband. He’s working all the time, and she just felt lonely in her marriage. And so she’s confessed that she felt jealous. And, and she blamed her husband entirely on the state of their relationship. And I just said to her, I said, “Well, to be honest, I pursue my husband. I seek him out. And I’m willing to take, it doesn’t have to be a out to dinner date, if he’s running to the hardware store…” Or, we used to joke about having dog food dates, because he’d run, had to run to grocery store to pick up dog food, and I’d say, “Hey, can I come?” You know, if the kids were taking care of-

Jim: Sure.

Lisa: … then, and I’d jump in. And yeah, it was this, you know, it wasn’t a exciting, but I got that 15 minutes to the store and back to be with just him and me.

Jim: Hm.

Lisa: And so those little things, again, built up to that relationship that we were enjoying. But, uh, it wasn’t just him inviting me, it was myself inviting. So.

Matt: I think one of the things that happens often, is, and, you know, I don’t want to be hard on the wives, but it’s sometimes easy to think that you’re the one that has the feelings in the relationship.

Lisa: Oh, that’s a good point.

Matt: And, your husband doesn’t, he might not be expressive, or demonstrative, relative to how he’s feeling, but he has deep and strong feelings about the relationship. And that business of pursuing, that business of reaching out, that business of being interested in, that matters so much. And if he feels like he’s been shut down, if he feels like what he does has been diminished in a comment in any way, it shuts him down.

Jim: Okay, you’ve mentioned shopping a couple of times.

Matt: Yeah.

Jim: I’m sad to say I finally learned a good lesson. Jean and I were up, uh, I think we, I think the boys went skiing, and we didn’t feel like skiing. And so we just took the day off, and we were down in Frisco. And Jean wanted to go shopping. So I’m thinking to myself, “Okay, I’m gonna be intentional. I’m gonna be into shopping.” Which is really hard for me, ’cause I’m a bagger. You go in, you know what you want to get, you shoot-

Matt: Well, that I-

Jim: … you grab it.

Matt: Okay. I’m the same exact way.

Lisa: (laughs)

Jim: Yeah, right. So, you know, we go to the first shop. I mean this shop is only like 30 foot wide and 50 foot deep.

Matt: 30 seconds tops. (laughs)

Jim: It’s 30, if that. So we go in there, it was an hour and a half. An hour and a half.

Matt: I can’t-

Jim: I mean, I think she looked at everything.

Lisa: Sounds delightful. (laughs)

Matt: (laughs)

Jim: But I’m, I’m committed. I’m smiling and gritting my teeth. And I’m going, “This is so much fun. I can’t wait to do this in the next shop.” And we had about five shops to go. So I said, “I, you know what, Jean? Here’s what I’m gonna do. Let me, let me just go ahead of you and I’m gonna see what shops are down the street.” (laughs) So, I went into each one and I picked out three or four items I thought she would like. I hung them, with the permission of the clerk, I hung them in the dressing room.

Matt: Oh, this is-

Jim: Yeah.

Matt: Okay. This is big stuff.

Jim: I finally figured it out.

Matt: Way to go. That’s awesome.

Jim: So, I mean, what was great is she literally, she excepted like half of what I picked out, which I thought was pretty good. It’s a D minus, but, you know, (laughs). But literally she-

Matt: Way to go.

Jim: … yeah, she bought l- several blouses, and a couple of sweaters I picked out.

Matt: That is perfect.

Jim: And I, and it was good, ’cause it made me feel like efficient. (laughs)

Matt: (laughs)

Lisa: (laughs) Everybody was.

Jim: And we cut that wait time down significantly.

Matt: That’s important.

Jim: But, uh, you know-

Matt: Wow.

Jim: … so the motive may not have been pure, but the outcome was good.

Matt: Oh, I don’t know. That sounds really great to me.

Jim: (laughs)

Matt: I do ex- I, I do the exact same thing.

Jim: Yeah.

Matt: Okay, when we’re shopping, we do that very thing. I pick stuff out for her to look at.

Jim: Uh, let’s hit this issue right at the end here. We don’t have a lot of time. But, uh, words matter. I think for me, that’s probably the weapon of choice, if I could say it that way. And if there’s a, a discipline that I have to continue to struggle with, it’s kind of using my words in a way that sarcastic, or just cutting, or, you know, ju-… Sometimes it’s humorous, but not to her.

Matt: Yeah.

Jim: You know, and I think-

Matt: Yeah.

Jim: … it’s funny. I’m laughing, she’s not laughing.

Matt: Right.

Jim: So speak to the importance that your words carry weight.

Matt: Oh, they do. They do. You know, well, all of us, uh, bring into marriage a set of filters that are based on our childhood, the experiences that we had, and the home that we grew up in. And, again, that’s part of the knowledge base, understanding, you know, where that other person came from. But, this business of making a joke at your wife’s expense.

Jim: Mm-hum.

Matt: You know, you can get a little chuckle out of it, and she might chuckle, go along with it. But what you’re doing is you’re closing the door of her heart. Sarcasm poisons your relationship, and it’s just nothing but cutting somebody else down. Making a snide remark about something, and “Oh, I was just, I was just joking.” But, you know, I like jokes that are at your own expense. Uh-

Jim: Yeah, that’s better.

Matt: … you tell, tell those jokes.

Jim: Yeah.

Matt: But never, ever speak in a sarcastic manner with your wife. It does nothing but close her heart. And a woman never slams the door of her heart in one moment. She closes it incrementally over time, and men find out once that door is closed, getting it open takes an, (laughs) an act of God.

Jim: Yeah.

Matt: So, yeah. Don’t close the door of your wife’s heart with sarcasm.

Jim: Hm.

Matt: There’s nothing good, there’s nothing fruitful that comes of it.

Jim: That’s powerful statements. And I hope husbands are hearing that really clearly. And maybe some wives that also use sarcasm to get their points across. But, um, let’s close with the story you have about a couple in Georgia who are on the brink of divorce.

Matt: Oh, okay.

Jim: Uh, that’s a great story.

Lisa: Mm.

Jim: And it really, um, some people are listening that this will speak to very loudly.

Matt: Absolutely. Well, uh, we got this email from out of the blue. And this woman says, “Hey, um, I’m writing you from California, I don’t, I’m not from California, but I just left, I want you to, I want to tell you my story.” And she said, “Uh, we had a terrible rocky marriage for so long. And then, uh, we saw your books online. We thought, and these are the 100 Ways to Love Your Husband, 100 Ways to Love your Wife books.” And we thought, “Eh, let’s order them. Last ditch effort.”

Jim: Hm.

Matt: She said, “But, uh, it took several days for the books to get there. And I decided before they arrived that I was done.” So she said, “I got on a plane, and I flew to California.” She said that was about a month and a half ago. And she said, “Unbeknownst to me, my husband started reading your book.

Jim: Hm.

Matt: And I could just tell on the phone, that he was thinking about me differently. He was interacting with me differently. And all of a sudden, I was feeling like he actually cared about me as a person. I felt like he had changed.” And she said, “So, the reason I’m writing you is, I’ve actually purchased my plane tickets. We’re not getting a divorce. I’m flying back. And we’re going to continue on with our marriage.” She said, “And I’m gonna read your wife’s book.” (laughs)

Lisa: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

John: Obviously a great conversation in the studio with our guests, Matt and Lisa Jacobson, today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Um, Jim that was a wonderful reminder about how small, simple things, just paying attention to your spouse, using kind words, listening to each other, that can have a huge impact on your marriage.

Jim: It sure can. And I need to confess, ’cause Jean’s gonna hear this program.

John: (laughs) Yes.

Jim: I don’t always do it well, and so I was right there taking notes mentally.

John: Hm.

Jim: And it’s something I always want to do better is paying attention and being tender toward her, and listening to her without finishing her sentences. (laughs) I mean, yeah. Those are a few things I’m struggling with.

John: I’m always dealing with that.

Jim: But, uh, you know, as he said, you don’t need big, grand gestures to keep your love alive. Uh, taking a nice vacation together, or going to a fancy restaurant can be romantic and fun, but it’s what you do every day that will either build up or tear down your relationship in your marriage. Matt and Lisa have provided more than enough suggestions about how to, uh, take your marriage to the next level. Who doesn’t want to do that? And we want to put this pair of books into your hands, 100 Ways to Love Your Wife and 100 Ways to Love Your Husband. I love the concept of that.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, make a monthly pledge, if you can, uh, of any amount, um, big and small, it doesn’t matter, uh, to Focus on the Family, and we’ll send these two books to you right away as our way of saying thanks for being there. If you can’t make a monthly pledge, a one-time gift will work as well. Um, it just helps us to plan for the budget to help other marriages-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … and other couples do better in their marriage.

John: Yeah, either way, we appreciate your generosity and call now 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459. Or donate and request those books at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. At our website, we have a free marriage assessment for you. It’s a wonderful tool that’ll help you as a couple get on the same page in your relationship. Uh, you’ll find out some areas that you’re doing well and some areas to improve in. It’s easy to check out that free assessment, and we’ve got details on the website. And coming up tomorrow, a common struggle for most families, keeping your home clean and organized.

Kristi Clover: So, I had two little boys running around the house, and it was just, thing, dishes were out, things were crazy, and I, he came home and I literally greeted him in tears. I’m like, “I’m sorry-

Jim: (laughs)

Kristi: … I failed.” And, uh, this house is-

Jim: Oh, no.

Kristi: … a mess, and I just, I felt so guilty. And he’s like, “What are you talking about?”

John: Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back next time, as we, once more, help you and your family thrive in Christ.