Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Woman #1: When I’m around my best friend, I can be however crazy I want, however silly I want, and they remind me that I don’t have to change because they love me just the way that I am.

Man: So my best childhood friend really shows that they care for me by reaching out and asking how I’m doing. And they just don’t want the simple, “I’m fine,” but they want really a true, deep answer.

Woman #2: The best part of my best friend is the fact that no matter how long in between visits, it’s like we just left. We giggle, we laugh, and we’re still there for each other all the time no matter what.

John Fuller: Well, I wonder if you have a friend like that? Somebody who obviously cares for you and wants the very best for your life. That’s our topic today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, today we’re gonna hear from an unlikely friendship between two men that has spanned more than 20 years now. Uh, one at that time was an atheist, the other a pastor. And somehow God intertwined their lives and their families into this remarkable story of friendship and encouragement and tenacity, unconditional love, redemption. So this story, uh, definitely reminds me of, uh, Proverbs 17:17, which says, “A friend loves at all times and a brother is born for adversity.” I always thought, I got two older brothers. I thought it meant they were born to tease you.

John: (laughs) Well, there could be some of that.

Jim: So today I think we’re gonna new, learn a new spin on that.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And I think the scriptures, uh, sum up this friendship perfectly, and I’m eager to unpack those details with our two guests.

John: Yeah. We’ve got Walker Hayes, a Grammy-nominated singer and songwriter. He has sold millions of copies of his songs and albums. And, uh, he and his wife Laney are the parents of seven children. Craig Cooper is a Bible teacher and storyteller who speaks at churches and men’s retreats and other venues. Uh, he’s formerly one of the founding pastors of Redeeming Grace Church in Franklin, Tennessee. And he and his wife Laura have four children. And together, uh, Walker and Craig have written a book about their friendship. And, uh, it’s called Glad You’re Here: Two Unlikely Friends Breaking Bread and Fences. And we have copies of that book for you. Visit focusonthefamily.com/broadcast to learn more.

Jim: And not only are they good friends, uh, but they’re also neighbors. Now, let me say hello to both of you.

Craig Cooper: Hello.

Jim: Welcome to Focus.

Walker Hayes: Hello, hello. Thank you for having us.

Jim: Let me, let me ask you, the, the book talks about this moment where you guys tear down your fence. Now you’ve never heard that fences make good neighbors?

Craig: (laughs)

Walker: (laughs).

Craig: Oh! We, yeah. That was, th- we were sitting outside on your patio and Walk, said, “Hey, why don’t we surprise the girls, our wives, and just rip down that thing.

Jim: (Laughs) That’s not a good thing. Right there, that’s not a good thing.

Craig: Well, what was happening was, uh, the kids were jumping over it and going back and forth between each other’s houses, uh, over COVID. And when he said that, I was like, we didn’t, I didn’t hesitate. We just jumped up and we ran straight to the fence and we started yanking it down.

Walker: Yeah.

Craig: It took us about 45 minutes or so to get it.

Jim: And your wives were-

Craig: We tore up.

Walker: Yeah, we did.

Jim: Your wives were calm watching this.

Walker: I mean, they’ve known us long enough. They, they weren’t surprised and they were smiling the whole time. I mean, our kids that had already kinda carved a path, you know, in the grass. So, yeah.

Jim: So that was, that was good. Let me go back, Walker.

Walker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jim: Let’s go back to the beginning and, and kind of fill in for the viewers, the listeners, uh, where are we at. You wanted to be a, a music star. Just give us a feel for where you were at 20 years ago and what was going through your head.

Walker: Oh, shoot. I mean, 20 years ago is when I got married. Uh, you know, Laney and I were engaged on a whim. I played a gig in Mobile at a bar, and I loved it so much that I stopped selling real estate that night. Literally, just quit and had a dinner with her parents and said, “Hey, you know, change of plans. I think I want to go to Nashville and try, you know, try songwriting.” So yeah, that, that’s where music kind of started for me 20 years ago. That’s, that’s what got us to Nashville. But yeah, Laney was up for the adventure and we moved. I mean, uh, literally drove from our honeymoon in a U-Haul-

Jim: Wow.

Walker: … and got an apartment. I mean, it was amazing.

Jim: So you’re thinking, okay, I’m good enough. I’m gonna become a musician and someone’s gonna notice me. I’ll get signed to a label. This’ll be great, and we’re gonna have our kids and everything will work out. But it wasn’t quite like that.

Walker: On, all that stuff you thought would’ve been smart. I, I, I wouldn’t even, you know, I, I just was thinking, let’s just go and figure it out. You know, I didn’t know what a label was. Uh, I had no idea how many kids we, you know, we were trying to have, I just wanted to sing.

John: Mm-hmm.

Walker: You know, just wanted to write songs. Yeah.

Jim: That’s pretty amazing, actually.

Walker: It was. Yeah.

Jim: So how long were you a waiter?

Walker: Oh, I actually, I actually was a waiter at Macaroni Grill in college. So yeah, I sang-

Jim: Bingo.

Walker: Dude, got some experience there, uh, singing Happy Birthday in Italian, you know, for tips. But yeah, man, I did that. I’ve done all kinds of jobs. Um, you know, and when I met Craig, I was struggling. We had just, I had just been dropped, this was 15 years into my journey, maybe 13 to 15 years into my journey, and I had just been dropped from my second record deal, and I was into my third publishing deal, so not making any money at music, and was about to apply for a job at Costco, um, just to feed the kids.

Jim: And so, I, I, I mean, in that moment, I mean, so often we have people on here, it’s perseverance and, you know, but it probably doesn’t feel like it at that moment. You’re going, okay, I’m sure Laney’s going, you sure you want to keep doing this? ‘Cause we gotta eat.

Walker: Yeah. No, no, no. I mean, oddly enough, my wife never, I mean, it’s astounding and it, it’s, it’s probably unbelievable to hear, but she never, that’s one blessing. Laney, Laney never once said, “Hey, do, do you want to get a normal, uh, job?” I mean, she was always extremely happy and joyful in times of extreme poverty.

Jim: Well, maybe we should publish your marriage book. Coming out soon from Focus on the Family.

Walker: No, honestly, Laney, yeah, Laney, Laney should write a book, but yeah, no, they’re, you know, I definitely questioned myself as a father chasing the dream. Like, would it, would I be a better parent by giving up, you know, my dream and getting a normal occupation that fed my kids, um, you know, better food and got them better clothes and XYZ. But, you know, I definitely doubted myself then.

Jim: In that state, you were also battling with alcohol, and you’re, you’re drinking and probably medicating through that. I don’t know. But-

Walker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jim: Describe it for yourself.

Walker: I mean, I started drinking when I was 13-

Jim: Wow.

Walker: … and didn’t stop till I was 35.

Jim: Wow. That’s amazing.

Walker: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh, I mean, I just, uh, that was just kind of how I coped, you know, with any hardships of life or, I mean, just, you know, life in general. But I was a functional, um, alcoholic and, and definitely relied on it to perform.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Walker: You know.

Jim: Well, I mean, there are many, many people in that spot.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: So you’re talking to a large-

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: … swath of folks that are in that spot even now. Let me, let me ask you though, spiritually, you weren’t, uh, a Christian. Maybe you had an interest, but describe for yourself what, what faith or no faith you had at that time.

Walker: At that time. Uh, when I met Craig, I was, uh, I had no- zero faith. I mean, I, I had, I grew up, my, my dad was a music minister before-

Jim: Oh.

Walker: … He was a realtor. And so I, I grew up and I was in church, if the doors were open-

Jim: Yeah.

Walker: … I was there. And then, uh, you know, as I got older, I went the other way.

Jim: Wow. Okay.

Walker: Uh, and, uh, and so yeah, when I met Craig, um, yeah, I was an atheist. I mean, I, I, I didn’t believe any of it. I was cordial, you know, with my wife who was a believer. Um, and honestly, that was really one of the only arguments we had in our marriage because it was like, what are we gonna teach our kids? Uh, we didn’t fight about money, ’cause we never had any. And, and so our, our our marriage was, you know, pretty peaceful. But yeah, when I, when I met Craig, I, I was not a believer.

Jim: Let’s get Craig into this. Craig, welcome in.

Craig: Oh, thanks for having me.

Jim: Okay. So you’re the neighbor. You’re watching this. I don’t know what you’re thinking and where you’re at, but tell me a bit about your background, how you grew up and how you ended up next door to him.

Craig: Yeah, a little bit like Walker. I grew up in a church setting. Um, you know, if the doors were open, I was there Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night. Um, ended up becoming a leader in a youth group there. And I, I would say I was very familiar with the idea of Jesus, but I didn’t know Him. I didn’t have a relationship with God at all. I didn’t realize it, it was all religion to me. And yeah. That’s what was happening in me.

Jim: And it was about college, sometime in college that-

Craig: Yeah. College freshman year of college-

Jim: The Lord, and bang.

Craig: Yeah. So I had, when I was, uh, 17, working as a bag boy at Red Food Store in East Tennessee. Uh, I, uh, I had a wooden cross that would hang on a rope necklace. And I remember the first really spiritual conversation that I had was this lady kind of stopped me after I’d helped her unloading the groceries. And she said, “You’re such a kind young man, do you mind if I ask you a question?” And I said, “Sure, shoot. What’s up?” And she said, “That cross around your neck.” And she pointed to the wooden cross around the rope necklace. And I said, “Yeah.” And she said, “Is, is it decoration, or is it real?” And I had never really had anybody challenge me on that before. I didn’t, you know-

Jim: That’s kind of right between the eyes.

Craig: Yeah. I kind of looked down and I, I smiled and laughed and said, “Uh, a little bit of both, I guess.” And then I walked off and I couldn’t get that question out of my head.

Jim: Wow.

Craig: You know, that cross around your neck, is it decoration or is it real? And for me, what I realized is it, it was, it was decoration. And freshman year of college, I went to the University of Tennessee and I was invited to a campus ministry where I heard the gospel. And I, I realized a cross is not decoration. It’s a declaration of God’s love for us. And sending His own son to live the perfect life we could never live, and then to die as a substitute in our place. So that we could be forgiven and have eternal life. And that night, I was, I was just, uh, I was born again. I was, my life completely changed. And I, the campus ministry director said, uh, “Hey champ, what’s God doing in your heart?” And I said, “I want to give my life to Jesus, and I want to do what that man’s doing.” And I pointed to the guy who had just shared the gospel with me. And that kind of put me on a trajectory of, of ministry, towards ministry and, and yeah. Went into ministry, got let go from the first ministry position, uh, really broke my heart and the Lord used it to draw me to Himself. And we bonded over that actually when-

Jim: Yeah.

Craig: … Walker, you know, was telling me about how he had been released and dropped from, you know, a couple record labels, I could relate. ‘Cause I’m like, “Yeah, dude, I got fired from the church,” that where I had, you know, heard the gospel, came to faith in Christ and went and served the campus ministry and got burned out. And, and, um, we bonded over dreams, and we bonded over brokenness.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Craig: Um, both of them happen, and the Lord just created this friendship that was like the smile of God.

Jim: Mm-hmm. You mentioned in the book that, that your church upbringing or orientation kinda gave you this sense of prudishness. Either you observed it in other people or you had it within yourself. Speak to that element and then even reaching out, uh, for, and looking at people differently.

Craig: Yeah. I think God had to break my own heart, you know, to give me a, a tender heart for the broken. I think that’s what, what, what happened. So it was the hardest thing that I, one of the hardest things I had ever gone through was being let go from that ministry position. It was also one of the best things that could ever happened to me. Um-

Jim: Yeah. That’s interesting. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah.

Jim: You feel like it’s the bottom of the moment though, that your at the bottom of the barrel.

Craig: Yeah. God used it so much in my life, um, to draw me to Him and also to show me He didn’t need me. Like that church did really well after I was gone, and it was helpful to just watch.

John: Mm-hmm.

Craig: And so I had this sense of, okay, Lord doesn’t need me. And, uh, and I just took wa- long walks on Sunday afternoons and poured my heart out to God, the good, the bad, the ugly. Almost like a, you know, one of my favorite verses is Psalm 62:8, “Trust in Him at all times, O peoples; pour out your heart before Him for God is a refuge for us.” And I felt like the Lord was just welcoming me to come and share whatever was in my heart. And in that moment it was the brokenness and it felt at times like a, a neglected milk carton that had been curdled. And I was pouring out nasty stuff as I was praying and walking with the Lord. And He just healed me in, in that. Then the church hired me back five years later and said, “We want to send you to help plant a church.” And I, I kinda got trained to do that. And then we moved to Nashville in 2012 and we met the Hayes family January of 2014.

Walker: Yeah.

John: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And our guests today are Walker Hayes and Craig Cooper. And we’re so glad you’ve joined us. And, uh, we’re hearing right from the heart of these two guys, and they’ve captured that heart in a book they’ve written called Glad You’re Here: Two Unlikely Friends Breaking Bread and Fences. And, uh, you can find that book at our website, get a copy at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Alright. Now we’ve set the background up and I think it’s important knowing where you’re coming from, Walker, Craig, where you’re coming from, you end up next door, I believe, uh, your wife asked your wife, Walker, to church and you didn’t want to go.

Walker: Yeah. And just for factual, we were not neighbors-

Jim: At that point?

Walker: At this point.

Jim: Okay. So they were, they were, they knew each other.

Walker: They met at my, my wife met, uh, Craig’s wife, Laura at a doTERRA oil party. Yeah. Which I guess is like-

John: That was the thing.

Walker: …a Tupperware party, but oil, you know.

Craig: Essential oils.

Walker: That girls do-

Craig: Which we don’t even do.

Jim: I don’t even know what you’re talking about.

Walker: You know, I do, now. I’m very familiar with the, with the oil world.

Jim: But you’re creative.

Walker: Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. It just, there’s some good oils. But anyway, they, they met and, uh, then they saw each other again at an Upward basketball game.

Jim: Oh, okay.

Walker: So our, our kids played basketball at the same, uh, church. And Laura invited Laney to church. And honestly, at this, at this phase of our life, I thought we were finished with the, the church hunting, uh, phase. You know, my wife honestly had gotten quite comfortable with no, you know, services on Sunday. I mean, for gosh sakes, we had five kids, and that’s a, that’s a lot, you know, getting up. And so she, she had stopped by then bugging me about, “Hey, let’s try this church,” or, “I want to be a part of this community.” But so, so when Laura invited Laney, I was devastated. I mean, I was, I was, I was like, I don’t-

Jim: Your plan was ruined. It was comfortable.

Walker: I was like, I don’t know. Oh man. I was like, this Laura lay, why, why did this Laura lady appear?

Craig: And we met on Saturday nights. So you, you you didn’t have the Sunday thing.

Walker: They did. They, they met on Saturday nights, which was during football season, which was, was pretty terrible also. But she drags me to this, to this church one night. And, uh, I’m, I’ve had a, a good, good amount. This, this was prior to me quitting. So, you know, I’m, I’m drinking, it’s Saturday, football day, and, um, I’m riding in the shotgun seat. And as we approach the building, there’s no lights anywhere. And it, they’re, they’re sharing a building with a really old church, and I have no idea where we are. And I made the joke of, I feel like I should call someone before this cult, you know, kidnaps us. And, uh, and even Lanny, my wife, she cracked, she laughed. The kids laughed. Everybody thought it was funny. But yeah, man, we walked in this church and, um, you know, when you walk in with, with five kids, everybody stay know, everybody turns around to look at us. And I looked like that, you know, my hair was probably a little longer and, and I probably looked a little shaggier and I reeked of whatever I was drinking that day. And, um, I’m sure we had a baby. We always had a baby. And, uh, and Craig beelined for me, and, um, he, he, he just came straight up to me. He shook my hand super hard. He made awkward eye contact, you know, just would not look away from me. And he said, “I’m glad you’re here.” I mean, the, any minute, I mean, he, he kept saying it, as you can imagine, you know, you’ve met the guy. “Glad you’re here. Dude, I’m so glad you’re here.” And, uh, and honestly, I just thought, oh, you know, he’s probably the greeter guy, you know, of this, uh, you know, this church. And, um, and, and that’s, that’s where it all began.

Craig: Mm-hmm.

Walker: I didn’t, I didn’t love the church, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t go home and nothing really changed. I just wa- was intrigued. There was something about this guy that said, “I know what you don’t believe. I even know you’re, you’re probably a little tipsy tonight, but I’m still glad you’re here.”

Craig: Mm-hmm.

Walker: You know, and that, I don’t know. That information shocked me. You know, in a little, in a little way.

Jim: You felt, you felt accepted.

Walker: Yeah, I did.

Jim: That’s what it sounds like.

Walker: And I’m not even sure I liked it.

Jim: Right.

Walker: I’m, I’m, I’m, I, as I’m telling you now, I’m reliving it thinking I was probably a little agitated and probably going, what’s the catch here?

Jim: Yeah. All of it at one time. Yeah. Is this, is this true?

Walker: Exactly.

Jim: Yeah. I could imagine that.

John: Yeah. And Craig, earlier you were talking just a few minutes ago about kind of brokenness.

Craig: Mm-hmm.

John: And how God was working through you to understand grace. So go back to that moment. What were you thinking as you encountered this new family and a guy who might be drunk?

Craig: Yeah. Oh, I mean, I was just blown away. They came, you know, it was a church plant meeting on Saturday nights. We’re in the winter when the sun sets in Nashville around 4:30.

Walker: Or noon. Yeah.

Craig: And there’s a lot of hurdles, you know, uh, to overcome, for somebody to come. And also, I, I’m familiar with Outreach and everything where you end up, uh, sometimes people will say, “Yeah, we’ll come.” But they don’t, they don’t show up.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Craig: And Laura had told me about, you know, the, that moment and where she had invited Laney, and then Laney said they would come and all that kinda stuff. So I think I was just genuinely, uh, elated that they overcame all of those hurdles and walked in the door. And so yeah. Walk says, I, I said, glad you’re here. And he felt it. I know for me, I church had really changed. We spent a year at Emanuel Nashville pastored by Ray Ortland Jr.

Jim: Oh yeah.

Craig: But he had an opening that he shared every, every Sunday. And I had embraced that as, this is what God wants, you know, for us. And it was to all who were weary and need rest. To all who mourn and long for comfort, to all who failed and feel worthless and wonder if God cares to all who have sinned and need a savior. This church opens wide her doors with a welcome from Jesus, the mighty friend of sinners. We’re so glad you’re here.

Jim: Wow. That’s good.

Craig: So that-

Walker: Let’s go.

Craig: So that was like, you know-

Walker: Are you kidding me?

Jim: Kind of getting you.

Craig: For me, we adopt, I adopted that. Yeah. So it’s like, man, anybody who walks in these doors, like this is, this is God’s, but there’s a million other places you could be on a Saturday night or a Sunday morning in the greater Nashville area. And for the Hayes family to walk in there, I just saw it as a gift from God.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Craig: And, and I recognized, I think, you know, man, this is a friend. I was looking for friends too. I mean, I was new in the area. We ended up doing dinner that night, like, “Hey, have y’all eaten?” And they said, “No.” “You want to go eat?” And they, they said they love a place called La Hacienda, which is a Mexican restaurant. So we just took it over with all our families and our kids. And, and I left that night like hungry for more time with him. And, and I think the Lord was doing something.

Jim: Walker, we need to tie a knot in, um, alcoholism.

Walker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jim: I mean, how did the Lord restore that for you? Or, you know, take that appetite away?

Walker: Mm, I mean, miraculously, I, uh, I woke, I, so I was working at Costco, um, also playing shows during the day anywhere I could. And then at night, and it began to wear on me. I, I worked there about a year and, um, I actually just turned nine years sober this past October. I don’t know the-

Jim: Congrats.

Walker: Yeah. I don’t know the exact-

Jim: That’s wonderful.

Walker: … day. But, um, I mean, honestly, the, the only way I can put it is I woke up on a Saturday. It was an off day for me, and I felt sick. I mean, I, my, my body felt ill in a way that I had never felt in my entire life. And I, I, I feel like it might’ve been the fatigue plus the amount, you know, that I was drinking. And I mean, I, I basically fell asleep on the couch with something in my hand, and my wife would remove it before I spilled it, and then start a new day. And I, I had to clock in at 4:00 A.M. to stock shelves, and then I would leave Costco at 11:00 and then go write or do shows. And so I woke up on this random Saturday and I felt like I was gonna die. I felt like I would die if I continued another day.

Jim: Ah.

Walker: Almost to the, to where I kind of detested it.

Jim: You just turned, it just turned.

Walker: Yeah. It’s, it’s like, I, I just literally was like, I can’t do this another day.

Jim: Huh.

Walker: It was a sickening idea to continue drinking.

Jim: Yeah.

Walker: And, um, after so many years, I find that odd. But I, I didn’t drink on Saturday. That turned to a Sunday. That went a week. Sobriety began to feel like a high I mean I felt 17 again, you know, the clarity.

Jim: It felt good.

Walker: I felt young.

Jim: Yeah.

Walker: And, um, you know, that was incredible. Again, I did not, I was not a believer when I quit drinking. But that’s, that’s where that began. And then, for a while, I continued to quit. ’cause I didn’t want to go backward. You know, I just, honestly, I saw, I have a history. My, there’s, there’s addiction in my family. And I knew that it was miraculous. And I, I knew that backsliding is not what I wanted to begin, you know, doing over and over and over.

John: Well, it’s obvious that God was doing something special in Walker’s life and we’re looking forward to more of his story next time. Meanwhile, we’d certainly recommend you get Walker and Craig’s book, Glad You’re Here: Two Unlikely Friends Breaking Bread and Fences. Call 800-232-6459 to get your copy. Again, 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. Or you can find details about the book and make a donation at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: What I love about this story is how God can transform the heart of anyone, even those who seem unable or unlikely to ever change. And it would have been so easy for Craig or Walker’s wife Laney, to judge Walker as a lost cause, to walk away from someone who drank too much and wasn’t providing for his family and couldn’t care less about their faith. But somehow Walker and Laney sensed God was at work and they trusted God despite evidence to the contrary, that something better was yet to come. And I love that heart for somebody. ’cause I think that’s the heart of God. We, in the Christian community, need that kind of hope, believing what Romans 8:28 tells us, “All things work together for good, for those who are called according to God’s purpose.” And I want to encourage you, as you listen to programs like this one and get resources from Focus on the Family, help us spread this good news message to as many other families, uh, that need to hear this good news.

John: Hmm. And of course, one way you can do that is by supporting us financially with a monthly pledge so we can be fully funded and prepared for the hundreds of thousands of families who will contact us in the coming year.

Jim: That’s right, John. And let me just say this, we are running a little behind on the budget, so hearing from people would be really appreciated right now. And you know, it, it doesn’t take many, a 10, $20 gift from people that have not given to Focus in a while. It would be so appreciated if you can help us catch up a little bit, uh, so we can meet the obligations to do the work, uh, for the Kingdom. And don’t feel a guilt trip, obviously, but we just want you to know where we’re at and, uh, we’d like to make up some of that ground as we enter into the summer. Mm-hmm. So, uh, let’s work together so we can be that lifeline for households, helping them grab a hold of the truth of God’s Word and apply it. I invite you to make that monthly pledge today. That will really help us in the months ahead, or send a one-time gift. Anything you give, as I said, will be greatly appreciated right now.

John: And when you join the support team or make that additional gift, we’ll say thank you for your generosity by sending a copy of the book by Walker Hayes and Craig Cooper, Glad You’re Here. Again, our number 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, or donate at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back for part two of Craig and Walker’s story, as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

Day Two:

John Fuller: Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we’ll return to a remarkable story about two men who experienced a somewhat awkward interaction several years ago in the lobby of a church.

Walker Hayes: And he said, “I’m glad you’re here.” I mean, the … and he meant it. I mean, he, uh, he keeps, he kept saying it, as you can imagine. You know, you’ve met the guy. “Glad you’re here. Dude, I’m so glad you’re here.” And, and that’s where it all began. I didn’t love the ch-, you know, I didn’t-

Jim Daly: Yeah.

Walker: I didn’t go home, and nothing really changed. I just w-was intrigued. There was something about this guy that said, “I know what you don’t believe. I even know you’re, you’re probably a little tipsy tonight, but I’m so glad you’re here.”

John Fuller: Well, that’s Walker Hayes, uh, the Grammy-nominated singer and songwriter, describing the beginning of his friendship with Craig Cooper who serves churches today as a bible teacher and speaker. Now, together, these two men have written a book called Glad You’re Here: Two Unlikely Friends Breaking Bread and Fences.

Jim: Uh, John, last time, we had a fascinating conversation with Craig and Walker about how the Lord deliberately begin weaving their lives and families together. Uh, their relationship didn’t make any sense, an atheist and a pastor, but their wives became friends and their kids became friends. Isn’t that (laughs) how it just goes?

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And through a series of remarkable circumstances, they started hanging out together. And here’s the thing, Craig didn’t have a special gift of evangelism. He was, uh, simply being a good friend, something we can all do with the people we meet and interact with every day. And that’s one reason why we’re sharing this program with you. It’s a wonderful redemption story, and if you missed last time, uh, get ahold of us and get the audio copy of it, or you can watch it on YouTube or get the Focus app for your phone, and you’ll have access to everything.

John: Mm-hmm. Yeah, we’ll tell you more about Walker and Craig and, uh, our previous conversation with them and their book, Glad You’re Here, when you stop focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And now, Jim, we’re gonna pick up part two of the conversation with Walker Hayes and Craig Cooper, talking about the impact of their wives, Laney and Laura. And, uh, it’s today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

Jim: Laney sounds amazing. I mean, she’s a believer through all this.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: She, she does trust in the lord.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: She’s taking the glass at night as you fall asleep-

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: … and making sure it doesn’t spill. She’s hanging in there with you.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: Uh, she sounds like an amazing woman.

Walker: I mean, honest-

Craig Cooper: She is.

Walker: Did that … There’s no way. I mean, I can’t quantify, you know, what my wife means to me. I mean, I met her when I was … We started dating when I was 17-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Walker: And, I mean, she is, she is my best friend-

Jim: This is-

Walker: … and has been since then.

Jim: This is kind of the typical story, four messed guys who all married wonderful women.

Walker: Yeah. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. (Laughs).

Jim: And then, for you, Laura.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah.

Jim: Just speak to Laura and what she has meant to you.

Craig: Well, I, I met my wife, you know, when I was a freshman in college, and after I had come to faith in Christ. She actually shared her testimony at the campus ministry, and I, I was listening to her and, and seeing her joy in Jesus, her, her passion and, you know, she was talking about summer mission trips to Albania and Russia and Botswana and-

Jim: And you said, “You had me at Botswana.”

Craig: Yeah. (Laughs).

Walker: (Laughs).

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: I remember-

Jim: That may have been a little weird. (Laughs).

Craig: What’s crazy is I, I, listening to her, I was like, “This, that’s the kind of woman I wanna marry.”

Jim: That’s amazing.

Craig: She just seemed like she would sharpen me in my faith. And afterwards, we got introduced, which is a funny story, ’cause a dude picked me up, turned me upside down. A guy who’s 6’9″, one of my friends. I was literally head over heels when, when somebody said, “Hey, Craig, I want you to meet Laura.” And-

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: (Laughs).

Craig: And, uh, s-, they flipped me back over, and I said, “Your testimony is amazing, and I love your smile.” We’ve talked for two and a half hours, and that night, I left going, “That is the woman I wanna marry.”

Jim: Mm. Wow.

Craig: She’s very hospitable. She has a, like, a heart for the Lord and she … but she also makes you comfortable, makes me comfortable. You know, I just, um, I can’t imagine doing life without her.

Jim: Yeah.

Craig: W-when Laura and Laney, like, hit it off, and then Walker and I hit it off, it was like, “What? Hang on a minute.” ‘Cause you have, sometimes you have-

Jim: Yes.

Craig: … couples where it’s like, oh, the, the husband gets along really well with the other h- husband, or the wife gets along well with the wife. But it’s magic, it’s magical, it’s a blessing when all the kids get along and, you know, then the couples get along together and then individually, and that’s what happened with us. So it was just, it’s just awesome-

Jim: But not only that, there’s a story about your dog, right, Walker?

Walker: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah-

Craig: (Laughs).

Jim: I mean, we gotta get the dog story in here-

Walker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Craig: (Laughs).

Jim: It’s not just you guys bonding, but somehow the dog-

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: … plays a role in this.

Craig: (Laughs).

Walker: This is my favorite part of the story ’cause I got to unload the worst dog-

Craig: Mm-hmm.

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: … uh, ever.

Craig: He loves you.

Walker: And Cra-, yeah, Craig saw it as an answered prayer.

Craig: (Laughs). It actually was.

Jim: Yeah, let’s explain that.

Walker: Which, yeah, yeah. Which, which, again, when I was a non-believer, I was like, “Sucker.” (Laughs).

Craig: (Laughs).

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: But, yeah, we would, they… You know, we were so-

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: We were so (laughs) … Our lives were just meshed, you know, like a-

Craig: Everywhere.

Walker: … like a tapestry, you know, and, uh, interwoven. And our kids hung out, and we would be at Craig’s house, and we had, I had two Goldendoodles. Made the mistake of getting two, you know, when you go to pick up your puppy. One was remarkable, and one is, is literally-

Craig: (Laughs).

Walker: … the Satan version of a dog.

Craig: (Laughs).

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: I mean, he was-

Craig: “Hey, Craig, here’s a dog for you.” (Laughs).

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: Yes.

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: And so Craig, we’re at Craig’s house-

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: … and Craig’s daughter is like, “I want a dog.”

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: Oh, yeah, yeah-

Walker: You know, and I was like, “Bro. I have a dog.”

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: You know?

Craig: (Laughs). Oh my word.

Walker: And then Craig, Craig knew that we had two, and I was like, “Bro, (laughs), I’ll give you one. It’s ready to go, man.”

Craig: (Laughs). That’s right.

Walker: I was like, “Here’s the receipt.”

Craig: Yeah. (Laughs).

Walker: It is full-

Jim: A bag of Purina.

Walker: Oh, gosh.

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: (Laughs).

Walker: I was like, “I’ll put a bow around him. I’ll get him groomed-”

Craig: (Laughs).

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: “… before we give it to you.” And, and, uh, and Craig did … But it was actually remark-

Craig: It is. Yeah.

Walker: It was quite remarkable, the specifications you-

Craig: Yes.

Jim: Yes.

Walker: You le-, he basically outlined-

Craig: Oh, yeah.

Walker: … too many regulations where-

Craig: It’s like seven different things, yeah.

Jim: Well, this is your daughter, right?

Craig: Yeah, it’s our oldest daughter, yeah.

Jim: So, your daughter wants a dog? This is how this all meshed together.

Craig: Yeah.

Jim: But you said what?

Craig: So, well, she … Well, she’s 21 now. Our oldest daughter, Karis. She was 11 at the time, and, and she was w-, for her birthday, she was wanting a dog. We had had a terrible dog. We had a dog named Charlie who was a beagle, who, like, uh, this was when the kids were young and in diapers. And he would get into the trash can, pull the diapers out, the dirty diapers-

Jim: Oh. Mm.

Craig: … and rip them apart, the whole house. He was just a bad … And we had given him away. And we had gone-

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: … for five years without a dog. And so, when Karis is asking, I’m like, “Baby girl, I love you, and w-we’re just not a dog family.”

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: Like … and, and she kept asking, kept persisting, and then I said, “All right, look. There’s about seven things that would have to happen for us to get a dog.” You know, “Your, your mom’s allergic, so it’d have to be hypoallergenic. It’d have to be free, because we don’t have any money to buy a dog right now. Somebody, uh, would have to be willing to watch the dog when we’re out of town, because we’re not going to pay to crate the dog. It’d have to be crate-trained, potty-trained.” You know, uh, and this, “It’s probably gonna have to be like a Labradoodle or something like that.” And, you know, here’s, I gave her all these stipulations. I was like, “You’re welcome to pray for it.”

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: “But, I just, I don’t see it happening.” And, well, she took that list, and she started (laughs) praying for it. So, we’ve got them over to our house. This is the first time they were over. And, and that’s when, uh, Laney is talking about their home life, and these two dogs, and, and all this kind of stuff, and how they loved Noli, Magnolia, and how they just couldn’t stand Tulip. You know, she’s like, “Yeah, I mean, we’d love to find another home for this dog.”

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: And, and she’s like, “I mean, he’s hypoallergenic, you know, he’s crate-trained”

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: Or, she, she’s, I’m sorry, “She’s hypoallergenic, she’s crate-trained, she’s potty-trained.” All this kind of stuff, goes through all this. And then, and then, uh, she’s like, “I mean, we, we would actually even be willing to dog sit whenever a family goes out of town.”

Jim: (Laughs). Every answer.

Walker: Oh my goodness.

Craig: She had it all … And my, I had my fork, I just stopped.

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: (Laughs).

Craig: My mouth was open, and I think Laney smelled blood.

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: And she was like, “Do you all want to take the dog?”

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: And my, well, this-

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: And she said, “Just for trial. Like, try, why don’t you take Tulip for the weekend.”

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: “See if y’all like it.” Well, we fell in love with Tulip. And Tulip bonded us, our families together.

Jim: Yeah, that’s so fun.

Craig: Because any time they went out of town, we watched Noli, anytime we went out of town, they watched Tulip. And, you know, Tulip actually, uh, she died of cancer-

Jim: Mm.

Craig: … uh, a little bit after Walker came to faith in Christ.

Jim: Wow.

Craig: And I thought, “Well, you did your job on Earth.”

Jim: Yeah.

Craig: That’s, I think that’s-

Jim: Yeah. That’s so sweet.

Craig: … why she was here.

Jim: That is so sweet.

Craig: Isn’t that crazy?

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: Well, Walker, let me ask you, let me bring you in. Uh, because, you know, you’re on the other end of this relationship, going, “Okay, who is this guy?” Uh, you ended up years later writing a song (laughs), and you named it after Craig. I mean, that’s pretty cool.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: Uh, j-j-just a couple of the lines out of there, and maybe we can link to the website on your website and people could listen to it.

Walker: Oh, yeah. I wrote, I wrote Craig a song, just ’cause I did not know how to thank him for his gift of a van. My wife and I had one car, and we would drive everywhere in the Honda. And, um, if a cop drove by, I would yell, “cop”-

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: … and all my kids would dive onto the floorboard to hide from the cop. Because I-

Jim: You didn’t have enough room for-

Walker: Because I didn’t have enough seatbelts.

Jim: Mm.

Walker: So, we, you know, and we probably, my, my wife was usually holding a baby, you know, in the front seat, and, um, not proud of this. But this is, that’s where we were-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Walker: … in life. And Craig knew this, and, um, you know, I was so proud, and never would have said, “Hey, uh, can I get some help?” you know, from somebody. But, you know, Craig, again, back to the trust, you know, for some reason, I trusted Craig. You know, and he knew these things about us, and he shows up at my son’s baseball game one night, and hops out of his own van, and he has the keys and the title to this car. And, and I’m not gonna lie. It infuriated me. I mean, you, you would think a, a smart human would go, “Oh my goodness. Thank, thank you. Thank you for this gift.” But, I was embarrassed. Um, I, I was unwilling to admit that I needed such a wonderful gift. Um, I felt like accepting the car was throwing in the towel, you know, on myself. And, and just in, in the rudest way, I, I, I probably said like, “Oh, I’ll borrow it.” You know, or, or whatever. Because I, I didn’t want to give him the satisfaction of, of being a hero. A, of all, he was a Christian. I didn’t want some, some Jesus guy saving the day. You know?

Jim: Hm.

Walker: And, and, so, anyway, reluctantly, I drove the car home. And I, I remember looking in the rear view and seeing my kids buckling up, and-

Jim: Wow.

Walker: … I remember my, something softened in my heart, and it, honestly, if you, if you listen to the song, Craig, you can hear a non-believer not mentioning the name of Jesus, on purpose, in the song, being confused by the love of a neighbor.

Jim: Yeah.

Walker: Basically, just going, hey, I don’t know what this guy’s got, but it’s pretty perplexing that this man shows up and supports me, even though my hymns, my songs, don’t belong in a hymnal, even though he knows my story. There’s, there’s no benefit in knowing a person like me. I will not help you up some ladder at all. You do not benefit by knowing me, or my family, or the mess we’re in. Yet, he is willing to jump in and sacrificially give us the car out of his garage. And so that’s what the song, Craig, was about. And again, I didn’t run to Jesus that night. I just didn’t know how to thank Craig. And, honestly, writing him a song was pretty awkward. I mean, there were many times where I was like, “I’m writing this dude a song.”

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: (Laughs).

Walker: And I was like, “Laney, is this weird?”

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: And, and thank goodness, Laney, Laney sent it. Laney texted the song to Craig-

Craig: Yeah, she did.

Walker: So, it was kind of out of my hands.

Craig: You know-

Jim: Now that’s good.

Craig: Yeah.

Jim: And, you know, this morning when I was reading the prep and reading your book, and Jean and I-

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: … she was, she’s, we played the song, and she was crying.

Walker: Oh, man.

Jim: And then I started crying.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: So, th-, I don’t know who to blame, you or you. (Laughs).

Walker: (Laughs).

Craig: (Laughs).

Walker: It was kind of him.

Craig: It’s God, man.

Walker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jim: I’m blaming both of you for the tears this morning, but it, it’s very touching.

Walker: Thank you.

Jim: And we’ll link to that. So, Craig, you’re sitting there, a neighbor man-

Craig: Mm.

Jim: And you’re going, “Okay, Lord, this is interesting.” What kind of conversation are you having with God about this?

Craig: Yeah, I mean, I, I had regularly prayed, you know, specific things for Walker. That the Lord would bless his, his music. I would, I would stand outside of Puckett’s Boathouse, that was a Walker Wednesday Nights when he would play, and I would tell him, “Dude, mark my words, you’re gonna pack stadiums.”

Jim: Mm.

Craig: And I believed it. Like, I, I really believed that with all my heart. Um, I al-, would also pray, “God, you’ve gifted him so.” Because, like, and I knew that this was from the Lord, like the gifts that he had given to my friend. But I was, “Lord, please use his gift of songwriting and music to draw his attention to you, and draw people’s attention to you through things he’s written.” um-

Jim: Hm.

Craig: And, you know, there was an inkling, I think, when he sent the song, Craig, that came to me in a moment where we were five years into the church plan. I was feeling like, is anything happening here?

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Craig: And, uh, I was really discouraged. At that particular moment I was a bi-vocational pastor. At this point, I had been full time before, but this time I was holding down, basically, two different jobs through ministry. And I took a walk in downtown Franklin, in the square, and I poured my heart out to God then. I remember stopping in the middle of the, the, you know, on Main Street, and I just said, “God, I need you to encourage me. Do you have me where you want me? Is my life making any difference to anybody around me?”

Jim: Mm.

Craig: “You know I try to encourage other people. Would you please encourage me?”

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Craig: And I, I had sent an email to the pastoral team saying, “I, I think I might be done.” I wasn’t seeing any fruit, and (laughs) and, uh, that was the moment that Laney sent the song, Craig-

Jim: Mm.

Craig: Which happened a long time after we gave the van. I mean, this is probably a hear and a half.

Walker: Oh yeah, a year, yeah.

Craig: I mean, it, it may be a year and a half, two years after-

Jim: But that was the-

Walker: I’m a slow writer.

Jim: That was the timing?

Walker: (Laughs).

Craig: That, it-

Jim: Like, at your low point, boom.

Craig: My low point, we were on a date in Cool Springs in Franklin, and we’re sitting in our car, and I’m telling my wife how discouraged I am. And that’s when the phone buzzed. And it was from Laney. And I, I remember being a little irritated, because I, like, “Hey baby, who is that?”

Jim: Yeah.

Craig: And he said, “It’s Laney.” And I said, “Can you please tell Laney that we’re on a date, you know, that you’ll hit her back later. I’m, I just am trying to tell you how discouraged I am. I kind of need you right now.” And she said, “Well, it’s got a, it’s got a file on it, it’s got an MP3.” And were accustomed to getting that from Walker. He would send songs he’d written, and loved everything he wrote. I mean, he’s just a brilliant songwriter. But she said, “This, this one has your name on it. It says, ‘Craig’.” (Laughs). “I think we need to play it.” And I, I pushed back. Because he writes funny songs, too. And, and I didn’t know what kind of song this was, and I wasn’t in the mood (laughs) for … I was like, “We’ll play it later.” And, uh-

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: … she persisted, and it went through the speakers, and that’s when I heard, “I met Craig at a church called Redeeming Grace. It’s like he understood my ‘I don’t want to be here’ face. I felt out of place. I smelled like beer. He just shook my hand, said ‘I’m glad you’re here’. And then he goes through, and when he got to the chorus, it’s all about my relationship with Jesus. And I just lost it. I was bawling. And, uh, I was speechless, and, and I, it felt like, you know, Zephaniah 3, where it says, “The Lord your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save. He will rejoice over you with gladness. He’ll quiet you with His love. He will exalt over you with loud singing.” And I, that was what happened to me as I felt like the Holy Spirit was singing over me through my atheist, unbelieving friend.

Jim: Hm.

Craig: And I was-

Jim: That’s just how God will do it. (Laughs).

Craig: And I was literally floored-

Jim: Yeah.

Craig: … and blown away.

Jim: Yeah.

Craig: And then I felt like, “Okay. Okay, Lord. You have me where you want me.”

Jim: Yeah.

Craig: Um, “I surrender.”

Jim: Ah.

Craig: That was the first time when I thought, “Man, God is doing something in Walker’s life.” And I went and told the family, um, “God’s doing something in Walker’s life.”

Jim: Ah.

Craig: “Let’s pray that God saves him.”

Jim: Let me, Walker, let me continue with you.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: The, um, uh, in the book, you share how you and Laney had this recurring, I guess, argument, about Jesus.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: Uh, that’s a good thing. In fact, during one late night conversation, I think you said to your wife-

Walker: Oh, shoot.

Jim: … “Then prove it to me. Prove that the gospel can change someone’s life.”

Walker: Yeah, yeah. How’s-

Jim: Wow. That is a daring statement.

Craig: (Laughs).

Walker: Oh, it is.

Jim: The Lord, do you know the Lord is waiting for you to say that? (Laughs).

Walker: Oh, man. Yeah. I-

Jim: I mean, I just think he’s ready.

Walker: Oh, yeah.

Jim: When somebody says that. Here we go.

Craig: Hm.

Walker: Yeah, you know I was, I would, uh, this was following the loss of our, our seventh child. So, I, I was just crushed.

Jim: Aw, that makes total sense.

Walker: You know, we, we, we lost our seventh … She was a stillborn.

Jim: Oh.

Walker: And, just, I was confused. I, I, I felt like an idiot getting up every night and singing songs. You know, I just didn’t feel … I don’t know, man. I just was, just despaired. That’s what, I just-

Jim: Yeah.

Walker: I was confused. And, you know, for once in my life I could look at something and go, “I don’t how to answer this, kids.” “Laney, I don’t know how to make you smile any more.”

Jim: Wow.

Walker: “I don’t know how to make me smile.” You know? And I would, I would try to do good things. I would, I would try to go, “Hey, it’s about my fans. I’m gonna make it about them.” And I could only be good for seven seconds. You know, as soon as, as soon as I said that, before I finished the, “I’m gonna be good,” sentence, I was selfish, or bored, or … You, you know, and I, and I, and I called Laney one night, and I did, I, I said, “Give me an example. Please give me an example of a transformer, like, a, a nasty person who was truly transformed-”

Jim: Yeah.

Walker: “… by the Gospel, on this side of heaven.” And she said, “Paul.”

Jim: Hm. (Laughs).

Walker: And I said, “You’re cheating.” You know, I said, “He’s in the book.”

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: You know, “He’s in the manual. You can’t use one of those.”

Jim: Those are excluded.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: Okay.

Walker: I was like, “No disciples allowed.”

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: And, uh-

Jim: You had some rules here, I see. (Laughs).

Walker: I did. I was very … but, you know, and, you know, Laney and I, I’m so grateful for a relationship where, I mean, we definitely argued, but that was a cry. You know, I was just-

Jim: Yeah.

Walker: You know, I was begging her just, I was just confused, and I was in need. You know, that statement that you said I made to Laney showed me someone, I think that was my version of saying, “Man, I, I just want to be tran-, I, I, I, need-”

Jim: To-

Walker: “I need a savior.”

Jim: Did you get an answer to that? Either from Laney or from somebody?

Walker: You know what, I actually did. And it, it was from a book that I ready. And it was from, and of all things, it was crazy.

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: Laney used to go to this bible study called Flourish. And she, I would jokingly make fun. I would be like, “You gonna go to your girls group tonight?”

Jim: (Laughs). Mm-hmm.

Walker: You know, “You gonna go Flourish?” And she would go to this girls group, and somebody shared with her a book called Secrets of an Unlikely Convert–

Jim: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Walker: … by Rosaria Butterfield.

Jim: Butterfield.

Walker: Yes.

Jim: I know her. She’s a friend.

Walker: Oh, I know her, too.

Jim: Rosaria Butterfield. She’s great.

Walker: And honestly, I couldn’t even t-, I was starstruck.

Jim: She’s awesome.

Walker: Like I, when I met her-

Craig: Yeah.

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: … Craig laughed, because I didn’t know what to say. I was such a geek.

Jim: (Laughs).

Craig: It was great.

Walker: But I’ve heard her speak since. But I, she shared me that book. I got it on my phone, and I read her testimony all overnight, on a bus.

Jim: Wow.

Walker: I didn’t go to bed. I just read her testimony, and our testimonies, and our pride, and the feeling of driving up to a church, and holding a, a bulletin, her insecurities and her fears, and anger in those situations were so similar to mine. Our testimonies were so similar, I just hadn’t surrendered. I just hadn’t said yes.

Jim: Correct. Yeah.

Walker: Whatever you are, whoever you are, will, will you please have me? You know, will you, will … And, and I didn’t do that. And so, the, when I got home from that show, I finished that book, and I snuck into a Barnes & Noble with my hoodie on-

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: … and I bought a bible.

Jim: Oh. (Laughs).

Craig: (Laughs).

Walker: And I took it home, and I-

Jim: In the dark of night.

Walker: I did.

Jim: (Laughs).

Walker: I w-, I was so, so stuck in my, just, not gonna go there-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Walker: I didn’t want my wife to know. I hid it in the bag. It lived in the white bag behind a picture in our living room.

Jim: Wow.

Walker: And I, and I would wake up and read, and just devour it.

Jim: Wow.

Walker: And I, and I began to read about all of these idiots just like me that God-

Jim: (Laughs). That’s exactly right.

Walker: And, and, and you know what? For the first time in my life, I read the scriptures as those guys not being heroes, that, that, Je-, that God was the hero.

Jim: Yeah.

Walker: That they were just like me, and failing, you know, left and right, and he would continue to rescue them. And, and one day I told my wife. And, you know, I said, “I-I-I-I just wanna …. I believe. You know, I’m, I’m in. I’m 100%.”

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Walker: And then we met them at a sushi restaurant, and I was like, “Bro.” I was like, “I don’t even, I’m, I’m ignorant. I d-, I don’t even know how to explain was I desire. You know? But I, I believe.”

Jim: Yeah, that’s the change.

Walker: Oh.

Craig: (Laughs).

Walker: It was.

Jim: That’s the difference.

Walker: It was.

Jim: I mean, for p-, that, that is so good, because, uh, you know, I remember doing a, a, a catechism at a church in San Diego, and that was how they said it. They said the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit is a changed life.

Craig: Mm-hmm.

Walker: Mm.

Jim: And that’s what you went through.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: That’s what you experienced.

Walker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jim: You changed, even in the dark of night.

Walker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jim: That’s so funny. I mean, the Lord comes after us in all kinds of ways.

Walker: Doesn’t he?

Jim: I love the fact that you just said, “Prove it to me.”

Craig: Mm-hmm.

Walker: Oh, yeah.

Jim: It wasn’t just your wife hearing that.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: It was the Lord hearing that.

Walker: It was.

Jim: “Okay, son. I’m gonna prove it to you.”

Walker: It was.

Craig: Mm-hmm.

Jim: “And here I come.” And whomp.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: How much, what was the period of time between that night that you laid that out there, give me an example of where somebody’s life was changed from the gospel, to when you were sneaking reading the bible (laughs) in your house?

Walker: Oh, goodness. so-

Jim: Was that a couple years, a year, months, weeks?

Walker: Oh, no, no, no. That was, I mean, I’d say it was a matter of reading scripture for maybe a month or two.

Jim: That’s so good.

Walker: You know, just e-, just s-, just soaking it up.

Jim: What an amazing story, you guys. This is incredible.

Craig: Yeah, it is.

Jim: And, uh, man, I just want to say thank you so much for being here so share this story. This is so good.

Craig: Thank you for having us.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: Oh, it’s awesome.

Walker: Yeah.

Jim: Thanks for being here.

John: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and I’m John Fuller, and we just heard the conclusion of a two-part conversation with Craig Cooper and Walker Hayes as they described their rather unusual friendship of more than 20 years. Craig and Walker have written a terrific book called Glad You’re Here: Two Unlikely Friends Breaking Bread and Fences. We’ll send a copy of that book to you when you make a monthly pledge of any amount to the ministry of Focus. That’s our way of saying thank you for stepping up and partnering with us to strengthen and support families. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459. Or donate and request that book at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: And if I may, let me remind you why a monthly pledge is so important right now. Every year, hundreds, I mean, literally hundreds of thousands of people, married couples, parents, single adults, teens, will contact us for some kind of help. And here’s a little interesting fact: about one percent of the listenership to Focus on the Family supports us financially, and we could do so much more. Think if we could make that millions of people-

John: Hm.

Jim: … that we’re helping together. Um, let me give you an example. Over the last 12 months, we assisted more than a half a million couples who wanted to build stronger and healthier marriages. We also equip more than 670,000 moms and dads to improve their parenting skills and strengthen the bonds within their homes. And we estimate our resources and outreach efforts help nearly 300,000 people make a decision to follow Christ.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: That’s pretty good.

John: It is, yeah.

Jim: But, again, thank you to that one percent that are helping, because we couldn’t do it without you. The generous ongoing support of friends like you make all of this possible, and when we work together, God can do amazing things, like I just mentioned.

John: Yeah, so please consider a monthly pledge today, or a one-time gift, whatever you can afford. It’ll really help. Again, our number, 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Or donate online at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And, by the way, if your summer travel has you coming anywhere near Colorado Springs, please stop by and see our Welcome Center, uh, our soda shoppe, uh, a great, uh, terrific area for kids called Whit’s End. There’s so much here, and we’d love to say hi. Now, coming up tomorrow, an important conversation with Brooke McGlothlin about the importance of praying for your teen sons.

Brooke McGlothlin: Instead of praying, “Lord, keep them from that,” pray that when they come to it, they’ll stand. And the only way that they can stand is if their roots are deep enough, and if they’re getting enough nourishment, so that when the storm comes, they can stand up.