Focus on the Family Broadcast

Opening:

John Fuller: Well, no matter who you are or how long you’ve been married, your marriage is going to hit a rough spot from time to time and you might even wonder if you’ve made a mistake. Well, on today’s “Focus on the family,” our guests want to assure you that you can get through those rough spots and you can enjoy a very fulfilled life with your spouse with God’s help. Our host is Focus president, Jim Daly and I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, it’s so good to be with James and Betty Robison in their television studio today here in Texas.

John: Uh-hm.

Jim: I mean, it’s fun to be out of the office, isn’t it?

John: It is, and this is a more comfortable studio that we have, I think.

Body:

Jim: It definitely is. They’re a household name to so many people, recognized for their great work on their Christian television program, “Life Today.” James is the founder of Life Outreach International. Betty is the cohost and they are both active in mission, as well. In fact, last time I saw them, we recorded a broadcast on their show about my book and I think we ended up supporting you with a water well in Africa, if I remember correctly, so you’re good. (Chuckling) You talked me into that, but you’ve been married more than 50 years and I really appreciate so much the honesty that you have poured into your book, Living in Love. Welcome to the “Focus” program.

James Robison: Thank you, Jim, it’s good to be here and John and we just thank you for the opportunity. We appreciate “Focus on the Family,” because there’s not enough appropriate focus on the family and we appreciate what you do.

Jim: Boy, it’s so true. Let’s start there. When you look around and what God has done in your life, we’re gonna get to the nitty gritty of that, but when you look at everything and the hand of God in your lives, what do you say at night when you put your head on a pillow?

James: I lived amazed in amazing grace and amazed with the mighty hand of God in power and His love, and the fact that I’m even here, when today I would not be here, because if you could imagine a hospice nurse caring for an elderly man. She’s 40-years-old and the alcoholic son of that elderly man that she’s caring for rapes her and she conceives. And she goes to a doctor saying, “I was never supposed to be able to get pregnant. I’ve been married, never had children, divorced now and very much alone and I’m pregnant and here are the circumstances. Would you please abort the baby?” And that medical doctor in Houston said, “I will not.”

Jim: Huh.

James: And I have to wonder why. I have to wonder did he even think “possibility?” Could he have thought “precious,” “potential?” What did he think? He didn’t do it and the woman went home and prayed and—

Jim: Huh.

James: –heard God say, “Have the baby” and I was that baby. I’m the product of a forced relationship and given life because someone valued the life that seemed to have no value and seemed to be totally, not only unexpected, but unwanted, and no way to care for that child.

Jim: And what a great place to start. It starts right there, doesn’t it? We’re gonna talk today about your marriage, but you’ve rolled the clock back and you see what happened and how you were protected by the hand of God. That’s an exciting part of your story, isn’t it?

James: Known as a miracle.

Jim: We share that in that most people think Roe v. Wade is when abortion came into this country, but actually my mom was 42. I was born in 1961 and if you were over 40 or you were a victim of rape, you could have an abortion at that point—

James: Uh-hm.

Jim: –and it was legal in many states. People don’t realize that, but my mom also considered aborting me, but my dad talked her out of it, so—

James: Wow.

Jim: –we’re both survivors for different reasons and you see how God does that. I think that’s what gives us passion for the life community and being pro-life is, that when you survive it, somebody has to speak for those children, don’t they?

Betty Robison: Absolutely, you know, and I definitely support life. I feel like it’s the momentof conception, life—

Jim: Uh.

Betty: –has begun.

Jim: Without a doubt.

Betty: God said, “I created you.”

Jim: Yeah.

Betty: And every part of us, He molded and shaped and in His image and I can’t even see any reason why someone would think it’s okay—

Jim: Yeah.

Betty: –to murder a child.

Jim: Absolutely. When you look at your childhood now, I mean, that had to be full of turmoil, James. I mean, there were things going on, probably like me, that you know, you were lookin’ for somebody who could show you the way or maybe you were rebelling against that. What was your journey as a young boy?

James: My mother in her desperate state, put an ad in the Houston paper and asked for a caring couple to come take care of a little baby boy that she couldn’t care for. And she hoped for a caring compassionate, Christian couple. A pastor and his wife, a Reverend Hale, Reverend H.D. Hale and his wife, Katie, responded to the ad. He was pastoring Memorial Baptist Church in Pasadena, a suburb of Houston. And they got me when I was about 2-weeks-old. I was sick and dying and they—

Jim: Huh.

James: –took me to their doctor and he said, “You’re a fool for taking the baby. The baby’ll die and you’ll probably be blamed.” And they said, “We thought God wanted us to take this little baby,” and they got their little Baptist church to pray for this little baby and miraculously, I lived and I lived with ’em till I was 5, with the understanding they could adopt me, but my mother never signed the release papers.

Jim: Ah.

James: And she came when I was 5. It was traumatic and told me I was goin’ with her. I ran and hid under the bed, typical of a 5-year-old and I remember still, I’m looking at a wood table here, but I had a hardwood floor and I can still feel my fingernails dragging across the wood and she pulled me out from under the bed. She wasn’t being unkind. She was just taking me with her and we hitchhiked literally, because she had not even bus fare. And she would take nothing. The pastor tried to buy a bus ticket, offered to take her where we wanted to go. She said, “No, we’re okay” and we hitchhiked from Houston to Austin.

Jim: Oh, my.

James: And I lived there 10 years, houses that did not face a street, alleys, dumps, dirty rivers. And so, it was a very difficult time and when I was a teenager, the alcoholic that raped her came back. He made our home a hell on earth, choked her, thought he’d killed her, his intention. She fainted; it saved her.

He came in later a few days later and said he was gonna kill me, not knowing I had bought a rifle and I pointed it at him and I said, “If you move so much as a finger, I’m gonna blow a hole in you, big enough for someone to crawl through.”

Jim: Wow! How old are you at that point?

James: I’m 14.

John: Oh, my goodness.

Jim: My.

James: And he sat there cursing me and I said, “If you move a finger.” If he had put his hand on his cheek, I’d have shot him, but he didn’t move and I believe it’s because that church never stopped prayin’ for that little boy. I believe God froze my dad. I think what would’ve happened if I’d have shot him at 14.

Anyway, I called the operator. She sent the police and my father spent about seven years in the penitentiary, but I left the home I had after that and went back to the pastor and within two weeks, I saw this girl sitting here by me. And I just knew she was a sweetheart and I was blown away by the most precious person. There in the church, the young people led me to Christ. The whole world changed, and at 18, I was called to preach. At 18, I began preaching and within one year, my meetings were already city-wide.

Jim: Uh.

James: It was amazing. There’s no way to describe it but miraculous.

Jim: Betty, I gotta ask you though, without knowing all the perhaps background and trouble James was in, I mean, how did you begin to fall in love with him?

Betty: Well, we actually met, ’cause we were members of the church of that pastor that he had lived with for a long—

Jim: Pastor Hale.

Betty: –time, uh-hm, Pastor Hale, Brother Hale and we’d grown up in the church and I had heard a little bit about this boy that they’d come visit him sometime[s] and you know, spent some time and they were trying to help and they loved very much, but I never really had gotten to know him. But he came that summer and we were 15 and we met through, actually through Vacation Bible School. I was working—

Jim: (Laughing)

Betty: –with my mom in her department and he was helping Mrs. Hale in her department and we met that summer and started dating and really still didn’t know that much about his story, his upbringing until we had been dating for quite a while. And you know, I think and they might’ve called it “puppy love” then, but we really fell in love. (Laughter)

Jim: You just saw each other and that was the first step.

Betty: That was it.

Jim: How did you, James, I just know from my own experience again, how did you begin to open up to Betty? ‘Cause that can be a difficult situation for people that have gone through trauma like we went through. How did you begin to kinda let her see that deeper part of you?

James: I probably didn’t really share where I came from, to be honest with you. It was so painful—

Jim: Uh-hm.

James: –I blocked it out. And I didn’t even start sharing my story until Billy Foote, who was a college student at East Texas Baptist, where I went after we married and I recalled it painfully. And he just started weeping and he said, “You gotta tell the story.”

Jim: Huh.

James: And so, I began to tell it then, but what Betty was attracted to was after I accepted Christ, I had a real encounter with Jesus. I’ve said many times, I put my hand in the pastor’s, but I put my life in the Master’s.

Jim: Huh.

James: And I really meant it, ’cause as much as it’s possible to totally commit and give all the yielded clay of one’s life to the God, the Father, Creator, I did it.

Jim: Let me ask you though, because people are listening that maybe they’re at that place right now. What compelled you as a broken person, who could’ve easily been bitter toward God to say, “Why have You let these things happen to me?” What was different in your situation?

James: It’s an amazing thing, but one little sentence in a classic comic book on the life of Christ where I worked as a 12-year-old to 14, when I left home, I read it and Jesus was baptized and coming up out of the water, the voice said, “This is My beloved Son, in Whom I’m well-pleased.” I stood there in the store weeping and I thought, “Wouldn’t it be wonderful to have somebody say they were pleased in me, because I never had a father tell—

Jim: Huh.

James: –me “good” anything. I never heard, “That’s good, son.” I never heard “Good catch,” “Good throw,” “Good run.” And I remember saying, “Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the Father God would be pleased with me.”

And that hit me so, when these young people gave their testimonies at the pastor’s request one night, I was so moved by the Jesus they talked about, that I wanted to go forward, but I was trembling. I was very shy and the pastor’s wife came to me, tears rolling down her cheeks, said, “Don’t you want to go to Jesus?” I said, “Yes, but I’m afraid.” She said, “I’ll go with you.”

Well, that night I did go forward with her help and like I said, I put my hand in the pastor’s, put my life in the Master’s. I was so transformed by the power of God and realized that this God, He literally said this to me, He said it as I’m going forward, “You do this and I’ll be pleased with you.”

Jim: Huh.

James: You know, when God is saying to me, “You do this, I picked you.” And I’m goin’ forward and I knew that when I put my hand in the pastor’s, but my life in the Master’s–

Jim: How old are you?

James: –I was 14–

Jim: Fourteen when it happened.

James: –yeah, I’d been chosen and He became so real to me that on one of our dates and I would talk about Jesus, ’cause I really entered into the fellowship, I said, “He’s more real than the skin on my bones.”

John: Hm.

James: And she said to me, “He’s not real like that to me; He’s someone I heard about.” And you know, a couple of years later in our journey, she realized she wanted to know Jesus.

Betty: Well, in fact, this came up before we got married and right before my 19^th birthday, I accepted the Lord, but I’d grown up in church.

James: Yes.

Betty: I mean, never missed anything that went on. I mean, I was a dedicated church member.

Jim: What’s the difference?

Betty: The difference was that personal relationship with Jesus Christ and I saw it in a boy that had never really had a home, that had not grown up under that spiritual leadership, which I think it’s wonderful to be under that spiritual leadership. I just didn’t grasp it at the time, you know, with my heart. And when I saw it in him, I saw that it was real, and I thought, I’ve never seen that before in me. I went on fear and “do this right and do that right and maybe God won’t get you” attitude. You know, that’s the way I lived.

But then I saw somebody that came from a very imperfect situation, grew up under, he never was bitter about his circumstances, never blamed anyone, and I thought, there’s something about that, that I don’t have. And so, I said, “God, I want it, whatever it is, I want it.”

Jim: Did you ever think, what is it? Character? When you talk about a person that can do that, that doesn’t turn bitter?

Betty: Well, I think it’s God’s grace—

Jim: Right.

Betty: –you know–

James: I do, too.

Betty: –God’s protection—

James: I know it was.

Betty: –God’s grace, I really do. And I saw it, that it was about a relationship; it wasn’t about how many times I went to church, how good I was and all that. God sent His Son and paid for all of that.

Jim: Why do you think in that way, why do you think one person can receive that grace that you talked about and others miss it?

James: I don’t think we see Jesus as clearly as we should and need to and I don’t even think we, as Christians, present Him as beautiful and magnetically attractive as He is. I think we tend to, you know, we’re the body of Christ, but it looks like we’re wearing the skeleton on the outside and we appear insensitive and rigid and uncaring. And that’s not good.

We may talk about the principles. They’re vitally important, but they need to be covered with compassion and the Spirit of the Living God and the sensitivity to God’s heart and others. So, you know, it was just amazing what happened.

And she came out of the choir to give her life to Christ. She’s a little Sunday school teacher, but she didn’t know Jesus and when she told the pastor she was saved, he said, “Betty’s the best girl in our church.” She said, “Quit telling me how good I am. I’m tired of tryin’ to be who I’m not.”

Jim: Wow.

James: “And I just gave my life to Jesus” and she really impacted the church and so many people in the world, who were in churches, but they don’t know Christ.

Jim: Betty, that really is an important part of your story, living something that you’re not. I love the freshness of that. There’s so many, even young women today, that are in the church, feelin’ like it’s not real. I’m behind here; I’m trying to raise the kids. My husband and I aren’t getting along. Talk about—

Betty: Yeah, and I think—

Jim: –that.

Betty: –I think and especially for a woman, to me as far as I can say for myself is, it was I never could get good enough to where I felt like I could ask God in a personal relationship.

Jim: Huh.

Betty: I was always striving for what I don’t know, for acceptance, I guess, and I was the worst, more critical of myself than anybody could be. I put it on myself more than anyone else could have. And God was trying to show me, “You can’t do it; I do it. And you just offer yourself to Me and I’ll do the cleansing and I’ll do the setting free and I’ll be the salvation,” but it took me a while to get there.

Jim: Sure, and it’s beautifully said. I think it’s so…today so many women particularly, bear so much self-guilt, so much of a burden. I think they bear that—

Betty: Expectations–

Jim: –more so than men.

Betty: –you know.

Jim: Yeah, they feel like they’re failing constantly and so, that’s good to hear that God got you through that. But you get into this marriage and you’re lovin’ each other as best you can. Where were some of the shortcomings when you, you know, year No. 1, year No. 2, in the early part of your marriage, was it all bliss? Or did you guys realize you’re not perfect?

Betty: Oh, no, we immediately starting (Laughter) having clashes, you might say.

Jim: What did that look like?

Betty: Well, my side of it was, anytime there was a conflict, I wanted to run and hide and pout. I was a good pouter.

Jim: Uh-huh.

Betty: And James didn’t let that last very long. He said, “In this relationship, in this marriage, we will communicate. We will talk it through,” and that was the best thing, even though I resisted it at times, that was the best thing that he could’ve said to me.

James: We got another commandment: “Thou shalt not pout.”

Betty: (Laughing) We do.

James: And settlin’ up–

Jim: I like that one.

James: –and settlin’ up.

Jim: I can pout sometimes. I’m a pretty good pouter. James, in fact, you talked about in the book when you were traveling, you had to put protection around you. I appreciate that as a man. That’s a real honest statement, because you’re a handsome guy. You’re like a rugged guy, you know, women are attracted to you.—

James: I did and I was so in love with Jesus that I was not distracted, but you know, the church will wear you out. If you’re gifted and you’re effective, even the church will manipulate you, just like denominations try to dominate you.

Those are not good spiritual traits. But I was manipulated to come everywhere until I did 30 to 40 city-wide crusades a year and they were not five-day things, they were Sunday to Sunday; they were all eight-day, did 600. I traveled too much and I was gone.

I started with the intimacy with Jesus and I preached that on overflow and with a supernatural gifting. But as it went on, I began to preach with the gifting only and with the gift of the Spirit and not the fruit of the Spirit. And I began to become impatient and irritable and without self-control and angry. And something was going wrong, but I was good at what I did. I was effective in my communication. It was obvious I cared. It was obvious I wanted the best for others, and sensitive, and I became attractive to women of all ages.

Jim: Uh-hm.

James: And I ran into something that was more powerful than sex or lust or the beauty of a woman. I had been a child that was rejected, at least it appeared, a fatherless child, a not-wanted child, and suddenly, I was desired deeply by women of all ages. It was bigger than sex. It was powerful, because they saw something they didn’t see in a father, they didn’t see in a date, they didn’t necessarily see in a spouse, and they saw it in me and they wanted to be close.

And I’ve watched this tear up so many ministries, so many churches, so many pastors, so many business leaders who love God and they didn’t realize it. So, I didn’t know what was goin’ on, and I told Betty, and she could see it, ’cause she watched ’em. They didn’t keep it a secret. They made it clear that they were so drawn to me and so wanted to be with me, they would do anything to be there and they would give me phone numbers and I would tear ’em up. And I’d get to the next city though, after years of this and I’d wish I hadn’t torn it up.

Jim: Huh.

James: I knew I was done and I told Betty, I said, “I don’t want to burn. I can’t take what’s goin’ on.” And a miracle occurred, and I believe much of it because of her prayers, I experienced a supernatural deliverance by the power of God, and brokenness. And I mean, somebody prayed for me, and I was set free.

And that stopped. That familiar spirit and that drawing that somehow they could feel attracted to me, but I might feel vulnerable, I’m gonna tell you what. The Lord, He just stopped that. Now He didn’t make women ugly. They’re still beautiful. I mean, He never made chocolate cake ugly. It’s still (Laughter) fabulous lookin’. But we don’t need to controlled by any appetite.

Jim: Well, let me ask you a couple of questions, ’cause a lot of men and women are—

John: Uh-hm.

Jim: –tunin’ in—

James: Well, they really need—

Jim: –thinkin’—

James: –to hear what’s—

Jim: –wow.

James: –what’s being said.

Jim: There are a couple things that jumped to my mind. One is the spiritual battle there. What do you think they’re attracted to, if it’s beyond just the physical attraction? What is drawing them to the power?

James: They want to see the Father’s heart. They want to see somebody that loves you just because they love you and somebody that’s strong, because they’re strong. It’s attractive to a woman. A woman likes to be treated like a queen, but not by a pawn. She wants to be treated like a queen by a king, who honors her and loves her. And when they see that stately determination to please God, and that was where my heart was, and I was trying to help everybody.

So, I want everybody to hear me, but here’s the deal. This woman loved me when I was in a battle. I mean, she became as the Holy Spirit in many ways. She became also the wind beneath my wings. She lifted me up, and when she saw what was goin’ on and knowin’ that I’m sayin’ without a miracle, I can’t make it.

Jim: Right.

James: Well, man, she had to get that miracle and we went after it.

Betty: Yeah and I knew the best thing I could was pray for him, because otherwise I felt helpless, you know.

Jim: Yeah.

Betty: And talking about what women saw and what they do; women, I believe they want security. They want faithfulness. They want a godly man.

Jim: Sure.

Betty: And I think that’s priority with most of ’em and I think they could see that in my husband, and they saw that strength that was coming from him and they wanted that. And I think they were really looking for is God in their lives—

Jim: Sure.

Betty: –to be first.

Jim: Betty, there’s something, though, that to me is very compelling about your story, is that you gave James the liberty to talk about this—

James: Absolutely.

Jim: –in your marriage.

Betty: Communication from the very beginning was—

Jim: And I think a lot of marriages—

Betty: –very important.

Jim: –yeah, a lot of marriages break down right here, because when men want to be honest, want to talk about the wrongful desires that they’re feeling, they go hide like little boys. They don’t know where to go and so often, wives understandably don’t know how to manage this, because they’re wounded. They feel wounded.

John: Yeah, he’s looking somewhere else. I’m not enough.

Jim: So, speak to that woman about how to find that strength to be courageous enough to let her husband be real.

Betty: Right, well, I have to go back a little bit. When we first married, you know, I guess every woman dreams of that fantasy wedding, you know, that knight in shining armor and you’re bringing two different personalities together, so there’s gonna be some clashing. Well, I began to see right now, my guy might fall off that horse sometime, you know.

Jim: (Chuckling) Right.

Betty: And yet, I was so caught up in thinking, he’s gonna be all my happiness. He’s gonna bring all joy and when that got disappointed in some ways, because he wasn’t God, he was bound to disappoint at times or … or hurt my feelings some way or another. And when I saw that, that’s what I had to deal with, was that God had to be in that place. I had to get the order right.

Jim: Right.

Betty: God’s first. God will never fail me. He will never leave me nor forsake me. And if I would put Him in the right place, then I would have my husband in the right place and we could work and learn and grow together.

John: Well, there are some important principles for living a good life and living it well as a couple. We’re listening to James and Betty Robison on today’s “Focus on the Family.” I’m John Fuller. Your host is Jim Daly and the book that we’re covering that a lot of these principles are captured in is called Living in Love and we’d invite you to learn more about that and maybe get the CD or download of this program at www.focusonthefamily.com/radio.

As we go through this part of the story, I wonder, Betty, if you can go back to when James first brought that admission to you, “I’m struggling in this part of life.” How did you react? And what were you feeling in the subsequent days—

Betty: Well—

John: –and months?

Betty: –I have to honest. I mean, it hit me hard, you know, because I was dealing with some [my] own things in my own life. I had grown up feeling insecure. I had grown up feeling very, not very smart and grown up just feeling ordinary or below ordinary as a person, as a woman and I felt so blessed that I had this guy, you know. I married this guy and I loved him so much and God had granted me that blessing of him, because I felt outclassed, you know. Well, [it was] nothing he said or did, because he has always built me up. He has never said, “Well, I wish you’d be like so and so.” Not one time has he ever said that to me, and I know that happens a lot in marriages. They put each other down, you know.

John: So, when he brought this struggle to you, did you have that trust relationship and that sense of—

Betty: Our trust was always—

John: –he’s good?

Betty: –great. If it hadn’t been for that trust relationship, we would’ve had some real, you know, struggles. And yes, sometimes things are really challenging in a relationship. So, I felt helpless to a point, but I thought, I know how to pray. I can pray—

Jim: Well, that’s good.

Betty: –you know.

Jim: I mean, that theme continues to come back, that foundation you both had that was so strong in Christ.

James: It was real; it wasn’t like we had a religious association or affiliation. We had a relationship with the living God and a wonderful Father, Who really loved us no matter what. And she knew I wanted out of the pit, whether I dug it or I got thrown in it; it didn’t matter. I didn’t want to live in the pit. And I knew that I needed help beyond myself.

And our prayers, really help came by just one of my buddies, a scholar, who did the follow up in our crusades. He couldn’t give me a clear answer. Well, how do you deal with this? ‘Cause he also understood, sex is big. I’m just saying, God’s big enough to deal with any issue. Don’t move the standard of God to try to accommodate your weakness, your failure, your addiction or your defeat.

But anyway, I knew that there had to be somethin’ and I asked Dudley and he really began to meditate, and by golly, he found a freedom in Christ that he looked at me and said, “I’m free” and I knew he meant it, and I knew so many preachers who weren’t. They weren’t free. They’re just religious, but they’re defeated like, well, they’re defeated.

Jim: Right.

James: And boy, something had happened, and it happened to me and it was so wonderful. In one year I prayed with 100,000 church leaders and people that wanted to be set free, I mean, I had preachers who were sent by their deacons and paid their way to drive 500 miles across the country to get in a conference with me for their pastor to be set free.

John: And they were coming to you, saying—

James: And I watched God set ’em free.

John: –“I’m struggling sexually.”

James: They came and said, “I’m defeated. I’m defeated; I’m burnin’ with lust. I’m distracted. I’m not gonna make it. Many of ’em were havin’ affairs. Many of ’em, they’d already bit the dirt. I mean, and they said, “I feel like I can download on you and you’ll love me” and I did. And I’m telling you, we lifted ’em in the arms of God and I mean, there many of the people today that I know who are highly visible leaders in the church and I mean to tell you, I know the stories. And Simon Peter has not got a greater story. I mean, he denied Jesus three times. That’s pretty serious. He denied him three times.

Jim: Right.

James: Then he preaches the keynote message at Pentecost. So, that means, God, if He can restore David and he write [sic] the Psalms and heal us and still tell people the truth, I mean, just think about it. He’s big. He can pick anybody up.

So, I wanted out of that pit. She saw