Preview:

Dee Dee Said: The coldness in his tone that day, I knew that this was gonna be bad, and I knew that I needed to get away from him. And I had left my car keys back in his bedroom, and for some reason, I thought I needed to get my car keys, get into the front yard, and just get away.

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John Fuller: Welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, as today we hear a story of hurt and hope, and ultimately God’s intervention and redemption. Now, this is a more mature topic, so if you have young children in, uh, earshot, we recommend using earbuds or listen later through our app.

Jim Daly: You know, John, today’s topic, it breaks my heart, and it should break everybody’s heart, uh, when particularly young women are in an abusive relationship. And I’m thinking of your high school years, your teen years, and, you know, I’ve known even my son’s friends that have suffered some of this.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And so it is a silent thing. We don’t talk enough about it, but today we wanna equip parents to be alert, to understand, and to have those discussions, to equip particularly their daughters about how to know when a relationship is abusive.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Because most of the time, this is all new, and you don’t know. You’re this flower, and man, there are mean people in this world.

John: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, uh, our guest has been through what you’re talking about, experiencing horrific abuse as a teen in a dating relationship. And, uh, we’ll be sharing, uh, that with you today. Dee Dee Said is our guest. Uh, she’s advised young adults about healthy dating relationships for many years now as a mentor and as a mom. And she’s turned her experience into a book, uh, called It Doesn’t Start with a Punch: My Journey Through an Abusive Teen Dating Relationship.

Jim: Dee Dee, welcome to Focus on the Family.

Dee Dee: Thank you so much. It’s an honor to be here today.

Jim: Your name will be easy. My sister is Dee Dee-

Dee Dee: (laughs)

Jim: … so this is good.

John: (laughs)

Jim: I’ll keep thinking of her as I’m talking to you.

Dee Dee: Sma- small world.

Jim: Uh, let’s get into it. That was a serious kind of, uh, entry point.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And some people are going, “What?” And maybe even concerned that should we be covering something like this in the open? But man, it is so critical for parents and for young people, both boys and girls-

Dee Dee: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … uh, and teen boy and teen girls can encounter abuse. Today, we wanna concentrate on your story. Um, growing up, you described your fascination with love and relationships. I’m sure.

Dee Dee: (laughs)

Jim: I mean, this is part of it, right? You, you are wanting to have that relationship that’s Prince Charming, correct?

Dee Dee: Ri- right.

Jim: What were you feeling at the time?

Dee Dee: You know, I think it was just part of teenage years of growing up, and that was one of the things to look forward to, tur- like turning 16 and driving a car was, you know-

Jim: A big deal.

Dee Dee: … beg- beginning to date. Right.

Jim: So you meet this guy that you’ve called Brock in the book. I’m sure that’s not his real name, but-

Dee Dee: Right.

Jim: … um, describe how you met him and who this young man was. How old was he?

Dee Dee: So we were the same age. It was my junior year in high school when we met, and it was in the fall. And I was giving a few friends a ride home after school. And somebody else asked for a ride. And when I said yes, then his friend jumped in the car too. And, and so as I’m driving and dropping people off, Brock is flirting with me and I’m kind of flirting back. And, um, and so he … When I dropped him off, he asked me for my phone number. And I was, and up till this point, I really didn’t know that a boy had been interested in me. My friends had gone out on dates, but I hadn’t yet. And so I was pretty excited that somebody was showing interest-

Jim: Yeah.

Dee Dee: … and asked for my phone number. And, and, um, so then we started talking on the phone quite a bit. And after a few weeks, he asked me out on a date. And of course, I excitedly said yes. And, you know, it was everything I hoped for. He came to the front door when he picked me up and opened the car door. And we had a nice time at, at the restaurant over dinner. And he walked me back to the door when the date was over. And-

Jim: Yeah. In that regard, when you, when you’re thinking back on this and writing this book, which is helpful because you talk about the signs and what to look for, but he was very polite.

Dee Dee: Mm-hmm.

Jim: He was a gentleman all the way and seemed like, “Wow, this is really good,” right?

Dee Dee: Right, right. Yeah. No, it was everything that I had, had hoped a date would be.

Jim: Yeah. How long did that last until-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … you went, “Uh-oh”?

Dee Dee: I’d say it lasted a few weeks. Uh, you know, we did things like going to a haunted house with my best friend. We would hang out after school together, sometimes with my friends, sometimes not. Um, but it continued good.

The first time that it … And it was a very different sign than what you would expect. He called me one night on a school night before bed and told me that he had flipped his dad’s truck and totaled it, and it was the only family car. And that he was afraid h- what his dad was going to do with him. And so would I stay on the phone with him? And so his dad wouldn’t come and do anything.

And, you know, as a 16-year-old, it didn’t cross my mind that all a parent has to do is walk in the room and say, “Get off the phone,” and he would. And instead, wanting to help my boyfriend, I pulled the covers over my head and, you know, kept talking to him. And as it grew later, I kept saying, “I think we can get off the phone. Surely your dad’s gone to bed by now.” “No, no, I still hear him up. We should stay on the phone.” And it was 3:00 AM when we finally-

Jim: Oh my.

Dee Dee: … hung up the phone, right. Yeah.

Jim: And was it true, or false?

Dee Dee: So da- when I went to school that day, he wasn’t there. And so I was really worried about what had happened to him after we got off the phone. And I tried to call him midway through the day and he didn’t answer. And so my best friend and I drove up to his house after school. And when we turned the corner onto a street, his dad’s truck was sitting in the driveway without a scratch on it. And so, you know, like, I’m disbelief what was last night. I’m humiliated because my friend’s sitting next to me. And so he came out of the house laughing at me for being so gullible at the prank he’d pulled on me-

Jim: Oh my. Yeah.

Dee Dee: … the night before, right.

John: Mm-hmm.

Dee Dee: I kept telling him that it wasn’t funny, and I didn’t understand why he had lied to me.

Jim: Yeah.

Dee Dee: And he just kept saying it was a joke. Couldn’t I take a joke? I did debate on breaking up with him, but I didn’t know if it was something that you broke up over.

Jim: Right.

Dee Dee: And so, I let it go.

Jim: Again, you’ve never been in this territory, right?

Dee Dee: Right.

Jim: And you’re very, uh, excited that someone’s taken an interest in you. Now you gotta process his difficulties, whatever, you know, uh, compels him to do these things.

Dee Dee: Right.

Jim: What were other things that, in the forefront, that began to happen that were equally troubling that you weren’t really processing the way maybe you should have?

Dee Dee: You know, he started to put down my friends and my family, just making, you know, kind of jokes, but putting them down. And, and I didn’t know quite how to respond to that. And then he started putting me down, saying things like I wasn’t coordinated, no wonder I wasn’t better on the tennis team. He tried to tell me that I wasn’t smart. And when I countered with it, I was taking the harder classes in school than he was. He said, “Well, that’s book smart. You don’t have common sense. You’re not gonna survive in the real world.” So it was, you know, I would try to speak back to it, but he always had a rebuttal that made me question myself.

Jim: Let me ask you, this is a delicate question, but I think-

Dee Dee: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … an important one. What left you vulnerable to that kind of manipulation? I mean, you knew who you were.

Dee Dee: You know, I, I think it was two things. I think we’re all a little confused of who we are-

Jim: Sure.

Dee Dee: … at that age. You know, as much as we think we know we’re, we’re trying to fit in and it’s an ever-changing landscape, but I also think that we’re desensitized to sarcasm.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Dee Dee: You know, it, it rains in school hallways. And so when I was confronted with it, it wasn’t really much different than what I’d heard other people saying or in other situations. It didn’t feel good and I didn’t like it, but I didn’t recognize that it was bad.

Jim: It wasn’t unusual.

Dee Dee: Right. Right.

Jim: Except in the context of, you know, a guy that you think likes you-

Dee Dee: Right.

Jim: … maybe would treat you differently.

Dee Dee: Right.

Jim: But really, these are mechanisms of control.

Dee Dee: Correct. Yes.

Jim: Right? That’s what he’s trying to do-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … is gain the upper hand and manipulate you, et cetera. That relationship then moved into him isolating you, him following you. Describe how long into the relationship that was and when he began to show jealousy and control in a much more forthright way.

Dee Dee: So the first sign of physical abuse was pushing me in the hallway after school one day. So I hadn’t seen the jealousy yet. Um, we were talking to a, a classmate after school one day and we were debating on something kind of trivial and wanting to look cool in front of his friend. I did a light-handed backslap on Brock’s shoulder. And in response, he pushed me with both of his hands. And it was so hard that I fell backwards, slid on the floor, dropped all my books. I was mortified. And, you know, that time alarm bells went off in my head. But I was, I think I was in shock. I didn’t know how to respond to that.

Jim: Right.

Dee Dee: You know, when you talk to your kids about dating, you know, “Here’s how you respond to being hit” isn’t usually-

Jim: Yeah.

Dee Dee: … (laughs) at the top of the list.

Jim: Right.

Dee Dee: Um, so I told myself that he wouldn’t have done what I thought he did, that he wouldn’t have done it in front of somebody else, that he was bigger than I was. He was about six foot, almost 200 pounds. I’m 5’6″ in high school, weighed about 100 pounds. So I just told myself he didn’t-

Jim: Yeah, it’s not a contest.

Dee Dee: Right. Yeah, but I just said he didn’t know my own strength, or his own strength. And so-

Jim: So you’re rationalizing it.

Dee Dee: I’m rat- … And, and denial, which is a big factor in staying in a relationship.

Jim: In fact, I think in the book you talked about, “Well, maybe it was my fault because I hit him on the shoulder.”

Dee Dee: Right.

Jim: “And that was his reaction.” And I mean, even that, that’s really, that looking inward first is such a good thing, but in this case, it can lower your receptors to reality, right?

Dee Dee: Yes, exactly.

Jim: ‘Cause you look in first rather than saying, “Okay, that guy’s unhealthy.”

Dee Dee: Yes. Yes.

Jim: Yeah.

Dee Dee: Yeah.

John: Yeah. In that regard, Dee Dee, you did seem to recognize there’s something really odd going on. Uh, in the book you mentioned it felt like you were dating, uh, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

Dee Dee: Yes. Yes.

John: So describe kind of that growing epiphany and those feelings of, “Oh, this is not normal.”

Dee Dee: So it, what Jim was talking about a minute ago, it was that there began to be rules. And I wouldn’t know anything about these until I’d crossed a line.

Jim: Yeah.

Dee Dee: Like I would talk with a classmate and then when Brock and I were hanging out after school, I would mention the conversation, and he’d get really upset that I had talked with this person. You know, it was either yelling or, or shouting or, you know, just very aggressive behavior with me. And, and so I, I slowly grew into a shell of a person.

You know, I would misstep and there would be consequences for it. And, but I never … Every time it was over, I just put it behind me and moved forward. And there was still a lot of good that was in the relationship. You know, we still went on dates. We went off school for lunch. Um, we still went on some double dates. So there was lots of fun between us, but then there was these episodes that were, yeah, frightening and, and I just wanted behind me.

Jim: Well, I would think almost, maybe even unconsciously because of where he’s coming out of some kind of woundedness, obviously, but like he knows the balance. He needs to do so many good things, so many right things.

John: Mm-hmm.

Dee Dee: Right.

Jim: But he’s trying to keep you close and push you away at the same time. Is that, did it feel like that?

Dee Dee: I, I just think I was lost-

Jim: Yeah.

Dee Dee: … in, just lost in the relationship.

Jim: Were your parents engaging this? Were they observing it? Were they concerned, obviously? Did they see things? What did they see?

Dee Dee: Both my friends and my family saw things that they were concerned about. My friends noticed a change in my demeanor when-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Dee Dee: … there’d been an episode with Brock, and so they would try to talk with me about that. But I already carried so much shame. I mean, you’re not supposed to be hit, and so, or even talked to the way that I was. And so I thought something was wrong with me that this was happening.

John: Mm.

Dee Dee: And so I carried shame and couldn’t talk about it. So when my friends or my family tried to talk with me about it, I just got very defensive and with my words, pushed them away.

Jim: Mm.

Dee Dee: You know, I, I don’t know what my parents saw initially, but I do know that they saw bruises over time.

John: Mm.

Jim: Wow. Y- it was that often that he might hit you physically.

Dee Dee: Yes. Yeah. And, um, this is one I write about in the book. He bit me sometimes.

John: Hm.

Dee Dee: Um, he would, we would be watching a movie or just sitting talking and he would grab my arm and bite it hard enough to leave teeth marks on my arm and say, “I just wanna know what it’s like to take a bite out of somebody.” Uh, so it was more that I was-

John: Mm-hmm.

Dee Dee: … always on this ever-shifting landscape of uncertainty and fear.

Jim: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

John: Mm. Well, this is Focus on the Family, and we’re covering a very difficult topic, obviously, with our guest, Dee Dee Said. And, uh, she’s captured her story in the book. It Doesn’t Start with a Punch: My Journey Through an Abusive Teen Dating Relationship. And you can swing by our website to get a copy. And, uh, that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

And Dee Dee, uh, that physical aspect of manipulation and abuse kinda crescendoed. There was a rodeo story you told in the book. Uh, why don’t you share that with us?

Dee Dee: Sure. So by then, Brock was telling me the rules rather than misstepping and, and learning them. And he told me not to wear my overalls, which were cool back in the 1980s.

Jim: (laughs)

Dee Dee: They’d come back again. But, um, so he told me not to wear my overalls to the rodeo, which really surprised me. I mean, you wear wranglers to the rodeo, not, not overalls, but I knew that he thought that I looked cute and that meant I wanted to look cute for my boyfriend.

Jim: So you did this for him?

John: Uh-huh.

Dee Dee: Right, right.

Jim: Yeah.

Dee Dee: So I was, I was wearing something I thought he would find me attractive in. And, um, so we went to the rodeo, and then we left. And after it was over, we went back to his house, and we sat on the couch. And he said to me that the first thing I had done wrong was wearing the overalls, and the second thing I had done wrong was coming home with him.

And I, the coldness in his tone that day, I knew that this was gonna be bad, and I knew that I needed to get away from him. And I had left my car keys back in his bedroom. And for some reason, I thought I needed to get my car keys, get into the front yard, and just get away. And I don’t know how I made it to his bedroom, but I did. And I remember feeling relief as I came around the corner. Only as soon as I rounded that corner, he was standing there in front of me holding a rifle. And, um, I didn’t see an option.

And I remember the wall being behind my back and just falling to the floor and crying, thinking that I was about to die. And he, he started talking to me instead and led me to the couch and told me that, um, you know, I needed to listen to him. And, and then he told me that because he thought that I was attractive in the overalls, he was afraid that somebody else at the rodeo was gonna find me attractive, and that he just didn’t wanna lose me, and he wanted to protect me from other people.

John: Mm.

Dee Dee: And so that was why he was reacting this way.

John: Mm.

Jim: Wow. That is a lot to carry as a teen girl.

John: Yeah.

Dee Dee: It was.

Jim: And it’s crazy.

Dee Dee: Yes. Yes.

Jim: And then something happened. And what was that change?

Dee Dee: So early in the relationship, he was very sexually coercive with me to the point that I finally gave in to his pressure.

John: Mm.

Dee Dee: And having grown up in the church, I only wanted to be with one person. And so that was why I tried to wait, but it was confusing. Like everything I was seeing in the movies, it was, you know, sex was happening. I was hearing it in the school hallways. He was telling me that if I loved him, I would have sex with him. And so I finally gave in, and we did start a sexual relationship.

Jim: Did it come to a point when you were saying no, and he kept going?

Dee Dee: So, n- no. Once I gave in, I was a pretty willi- … I mean, to me, it just became part of our relationship. But the weekend of my 19th birthday, I was home from college. I had actually, you know, graduated high school, moved away to college. And I was-

Jim: And away from him, or still in touch with him?

Dee Dee: We were still dating.

Jim: Okay.

Dee Dee: We were still dating.

John: Mm.

Dee Dee: And, um, so I, and I came home frequently on the weekends to see him, stayed with my parents, but would date Brock. And so the weekend of my 19th birthday, I was home, and he had long since made it known that he didn’t like my parents, he didn’t like being in the house with them. When he pulled up out front, I was expected to come out to the car. And this night, things ran long, and I, of course, didn’t go out to the car. And he came inside and I was really nervous, but he was, he was very cordial with everybody and pleasant, and so I relaxed. And once we were done with cake and ice cream, he and I got in the car and drove to a park and, um, walked around and he held my hand and he was nice and we spent some time there.

And on the way home, we were driving home and he pulled off on a dirt road that I didn’t even know was there. And we started … I thought we were gonna mess around and we started to mess around and he pinned me down and he raped me. And it took me a very long time to say that that was rape because I’d been sexually active with him, and so I, I didn’t think that it could be rape. It was probably 15 years and the help of a counselor that helped me see that it was. And, um, I remember driving the rest of the way home feeling broken and another level of shame because there wasn’t anything outward that you could tell what had just happened to me. And, um, but it was the turning point in our relationship.

Jim: Yeah. I, I thought that would be the case.

Dee Dee: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I mean, that might have been the rock bottom for you then.

Dee Dee: It wasn’t the act itself. A few weeks later, we were talking on the phone. I was back at school. And somehow that evening came up and he ended up saying that it was punishment for not being ready on time.

John: Hm.

Dee Dee: And that was shocking enough. But, you know, everything else up until this point, I had seen as a knee-jerk reaction. I had done something wrong and he had reacted to it. But this time, he’d been in my parents’ house. We’d driven to the park. You know, he’d had all this time to change course, and he’d still done this terrible act on me. And so it was intentional harm. And I, I began to process that, and that he had a choice, and that this wasn’t who I wanted to be with.

Jim: What was that point where this became abuse? You knew … Uh, was this it where you said, “Okay, this is abuse and I’ve got to get out of this”?

Dee Dee: I don’t think that I knew it was abuse until many years later. I-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: After it was all broken off.

Dee Dee: Right, right. I didn’t know to call it that for a long time.

Jim: How did it break up? How did you come to a point where you said, “Okay, this is totally unacceptable,” or however you process? What words did you use in your own mind to say?

Dee Dee: You know, it was, it was that phone call started it, but that was a lot to process and grapple, especially by myself. And I remember giving myself 30 days to decide what I wanted to do. And at the end of that 30 days, I was solid and I knew that I didn’t wanna be with him anymore. And I found the courage and the strength to say, “This is over.”

Jim: Where was God in the midst of all this in your relationship with him? And where … How were you processing spiritually what you were experiencing emotionally and physically?

Dee Dee: God is what saved me in that relationship.

Jim: Huh.

John: Hm.

Dee Dee: Um, I had withdrawn from every activity except for student council. I had broken off every friendship I had. I was completely isolated in this relationship with Brock. My parents were trying to help me, but it felt like I was in trouble with them. You know, Brock was telling me that he loved me, but obviously I was always in trouble and misstepping there. And so love didn’t feel like love is supposed to feel, but I knew God loved me unconditionally.

Jim: Let’s … You went through that quickly and I-

Dee Dee: Okay. Yeah.

Jim: … appreciate that. But with the parents that their questioning, their curiosity about how you were doing felt not like love, but like an inquisition.

Dee Dee: Yes.

Jim: That’s really critical for us as parents to understand that.

Dee Dee: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So what would’ve been the better way, a possible way-

John: Mm.

Jim: … that they could’ve communicated with you that would’ve drawn you closer to them and closer to reality?

Dee Dee: Yeah. I think it’s har- … I mean, as a parent today, it would be very hard for me because I just want my child out of that relationship. But they’re broken to a point that we don’t understand. Yeah. I didn’t talk about this for 20 years, and the first time I told my parents about it, I had such a physical reaction to the emotional hurt that my whole body shook.

Jim: Mm.

Dee Dee: So, you know, for parents to understand that we can’t go straight into what’s going on, but to reassure and love them and say, “I care about you,” and, and as they get comfortable, say, “I wanna talk with you about something.” And I just … Reiterating that you care about them.

Jim: And in reality, unless that teen or adult child is willing to share, the parent can’t pry that open.

Dee Dee: Right.

Jim: So you have to lay some groundwork, is what you’re saying.

John: Mm.

Dee Dee: Yes.

Jim: Get the trust built up because you’re vulnerable, right?

Dee Dee: Yes.

Jim: You feel embarrassed, like you said many times. You don’t wanna say these things because you’re hearing in your head, I’m sure, “Why didn’t you know better?”

Dee Dee: Right.

Jim: Right?

Dee Dee: Yes. Yes. That’s exactly what was going on.

Jim: And I mean, that’s a crusher. I think that’s one of the most important lessons out of this for us as parents is how to talk, particularly again with your teen girls about pressures that they might be feeling. Again, this is all new, so they don’t know the rules of the game like you were suggesting. And you certainly don’t want that, that person to set the rules. So you’ve gotta keep that relationship up with your teen girls before they ever get into this spot.

John: Mm-hmm.

Dee Dee: Right. Right.

Jim: So that there’s open communication. I would say even discussing with them what it should look like.

Dee Dee: Right.

Jim: This is what a healthy relationship should look like in a non-Charlie Brown wa-wa-wa kind of lecture, right?

John: Mm-hmm.

Dee Dee: Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Jim: So you’ve gotta find that ability to do that as a dad, as a mom, as a mom and a dad, right?

Dee Dee: Right. Absolutely.

Jim: And try to connect with them. Uh, Dee Dee, as you were raising your own children, I can only imagine that response was to overprotect, to over-engage, to over say what you might be feeling because of your experience. What happened for your own parenting journey in that regard?

Dee Dee: You know, I was trying to have conversations with my kids from an early age about friendships and what they were like. So often we say, “Well, is that person nice?” But, you know, asking more open un-ended questions of, “What is that person like? How do they treat you?” Um, was where I went. And then my poor kids, I sat next to them in every movie that we watched and said, “You don’t fall in love in two weeks.”

John: Mm-hmm.

Dee Dee: And, um, you know, just trying to show what was wrong in the movies-

Jim: (laughs) Right.

Dee Dee: that they were watching. And-

Jim: So that’s how that came out.

Dee Dee: Yes.

Jim: You mentioned it was years later. Just describe that briefly. Like how … I guess why? And then what happened over those 20 years that you were quiet, you weren’t saying anything, and you were trying to wrestle through, “What happened to me?”

Dee Dee: You know, I don’t even know that I was wrestling with it most of the time. When I ended it, I just wanted it behind me. I was mad at everything I had given up in the three years that we dated-

John: Mm.

Dee Dee: … and I just wanted to move forward with my life. But 20 years later, I had a concussion and realized that the only thing we can count on in life is God. And I was immediately flooded with shame and guilt from that high school relationship, and I knew I needed to dig in and heal from that.

Jim: I wanna expand quickly on that. Mm-hmm. We’re right at the end, but there may be adults listening, you know-

John: Mm.

Jim: … 40-something, 50-something, 60-something-

Dee Dee: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … that have never had that reconciliation, and all they have felt is shame. “I made a bad decision. I stayed in that relationship. I allowed him to do that to me.” All those words.

Dee Dee: Right.

Jim: How did God wrap you up and say, “No, my daughter, I love you. I’m sorry-”

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: “… this happened.” How did you feel reconciled with all of those, what you would say to yourself were poor decisions?

Dee Dee: You know, it was a few ways. I got involved with a, a counselor, Christian counselor. I journaled a lot. It was probably a six-month process of a lot of prayer, reading the Bible. And, um, two things. One, in a Sunday school class, the DVD that we were listening to, a woman was recounting another experience, and she said that she heard God tell her this didn’t change who she was, that she was the same per- … It was something that happened to her, and that He still loved her. And that was like it was being spoken to me.

John: Mm.

Dee Dee: And then on a bike ride one day, I was praying and just asking how I could remove this. And God said, as far as, you know, the Bible verse, “As far as the east is from the west, so have I removed your sins.”

John: Yeah.

Dee Dee: And I thought, if God has forgiven me that much, I need to be able to let go of this.

Jim: Whew. What a moment of being set free.

Dee Dee: Yes. Yes.

Jim: And that’s what the Christian message is all about, you know?

John: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Dee Dee: Yeah.

Jim: That idea that our sins are washed away.

Dee Dee: Yeah.

Jim: ‘Cause Jesus paid the price for us, right?

Dee Dee: Yes. (laughs)

Jim: (laughs) That’s the whole Chri- … That’s why we call it the Good News.

Dee Dee: (laughs) Yes.

Jim: We don’t earn our way into heaven. God has done that already. And, uh, yet, we have consequences on this earth. And I’m so sorry that you had to go through that. I’m grateful that you were bold enough, brave enough, courageous enough to write this in a book.

John: Mm.

Jim: And I think, uh, John, the key here is for parents. Again, if you knew your daughter was gonna be abused emotionally, physically, both, wouldn’t you do everything you could do to try to prevent that? That’s why I think we have energy to get your message out, Dee, is you-

John: Mm.

Jim: … you can do something to engage your child to talk about these things appropriately.

John: Yeah.

Jim: We also have caring Christian counselors here at Focus on the Family. You can call with that question, you know, “My daughter, this is the situation. What do you think I should do?” And they’ll provide some advice. They’ll give you resources. I’m sure Dee Dee’s book will be one of them now-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … in the great treasure trove of resources from Focus on the Family. And I know this is a super, super difficult issue, but if we, the church, do not talk about it, who will? They win. They being evil.

John: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jim: Right? So engage it. Have that conversation with your 12, 13-year-old daughter. And we know, oftentimes, the shoe can be on the other foot too, so your son should know, first, how to treat women and girls. And then secondly, if they’re being abused somehow, address that too.

Dee Dee: Mm-hmm.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So this is a great resource. Dee Dee, thank you for being with us.

Dee Dee: Yeah. Thank you so much.

John: We’ll encourage you to get in touch with us to connect with a counselor if you need some steps forward. Uh, our parenting site has lots of great resources, uh, for you as a mom or a dad. But our counseling team, uh, donors allow us to provide a phone consultation with you. It’s free of charge. And, uh, you can connect with them through a phone call or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast to learn more.

And if you’re in a spot to, uh, donate to the ministry, we’d appreciate that so much, either a monthly pledge or a one-time gift of any amount. When you contribute to the work of Focus on the Family and support this show, we’ll say thanks by sending a copy of Dee Dee’s book to you.

Well, plan to join us next time. It’ll be a great show as we talk with CBS Sports host, James Brown, about his faith.

Preview:

James Brown: I don’t go around trying to, and I said this earlier, to beat people over the head with a Bible, but we are to share the love of Christ lovingly, truthfully, and winsomely.