Preview:

Jim Ramos: I made a prayer. I said, “God, I am going to out love and out serve my bride, even if she never reciprocates.”

John Fuller: Mm.

Jim R.: Because I’m a Christian man. I’m modeling Jesus Christ.
End of Preview

John: That’s Jim Ramos and, uh, Jim and his wife, Shanna, are with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Uh, they’re gonna be talking about the benefits to both spouses when a husband is intentional in marriage. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: Well, let’s start with, I hope Jean is not listening today.

Jim R.: (laughs).

Shanna Ramos: (laughs).

John: (laughs).

Jim: My wife. This is one of those shows where-

John: Yeah.

Jim: … If she hears this, I’m in trouble.

Shanna: I’ll just make sure I send it to her.

Jim: But she would be cheering us on today saying, “Yes, an engaged husband, an engaged father, this is what we need in our homes today.” And I certainly try to be. I’m being a little facetious. But, you know, there are times when I probably did not meet the standard.

Jim R.: Mm.

Jim: But I want you to meet the standard. And that’s what we’re gonna talk about today, how husbands can step up and be the husbands and the fathers they need to be in the home. That right there already goes, “Oh, I don’t want this. Turn the station, turn it off-”

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: “… the podcast,” whatever it might be. But stick with us because we’re gonna have some great information from our guests today to talk about that with their book Dialed In: Reaching Your Full Capacity as a Man. We like a challenge.

Jim R.: Yeah.

Jim: A Man of God, actually. And, uh, we’re gonna talk about how you can get there.

John: Mm-hmm. And Jim and Shanna have been, uh, here at Focus via our Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage Podcast with Greg and Erin Smalley. So we’re glad that you had that opportunity to get introduced to our audience, but we’re glad you’re here for this show. Uh, Jim is an author and is the founder of Men in the Arena, uh, which is a terrific ministry. He’s got the book you’ve mentioned, Jim, and we thought it’d be good to have Shanna here as we talk specifically about marriage.

Jim: Representing all women.

Jim R.: Yeah.

Jim: Thank you.

Shanna: Defending myself.

Jim: Yeah, it’s great to have you guys. Yeah, defending yourself-

John: Yeah.

Jim: … and all women. (laughs) But it’s good to have you both.

Jim R.: Appreciate it.

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: We appreciate it. It’s an honor

Jim: So let me ask you, we’ll start here. The first year of your marriage (laughs), that’s what everybody wants to hear about, right?

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Let’s go back… But you wrote the book, not me. (laughs) So the first-

Jim R.: True.

Jim: … year of your marriage was not, uh, particularly easy, right? You were learning some things. How would you describe it?

Shanna: It was rough. You know, you walk into marriage thinking that you’re marrying your dream guy. And-

Jim: (laughs).

Shanna: It was, it was not that scenario-

Jim: Right.

Shanna: … at all.

Jim: Well, what-

Shanna: So-

Jim: I mean, to give us… You wrote the book. Give us those, what was going on so people can go, “Oh yeah, that’s us,” or, “That was us.” So what were some of the things that were happening that were so disappointing?

Shanna: I think for him, I didn’t cook. Um, I never really learned how to cook. Um, I think that was a big one. Using, not being able to use towels because they were decorative, you know, just all the girl things. And I, just the lack of communication and then the unhealthy form of communication.

Jim: So you-

John: Mm.

Jim: D- did you guys kind of go at it, fight, you know, and verbally going after each other and-

Shanna: Very much so.

Jim: Yeah?

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim R.: We’re very, uh, similar in personality types.

Jim: Okay.

Jim R.: And so-

Jim: Describe that.

Jim R.: I would, I’m a choleric-sanguine and she’s a melancholic-choleric. And so that choleric box is what drew us together.

Jim: And describe that for those that don’t know that.

Jim R.: Uh, the choleric bot would be, uh, I think Gary Smalley called that the lion. That’s the natural leader-

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: … bold, demonstrative, vocal. And so that’s how we communicated. And we just did not communicate early on what we expected from each other in marriage. And so I was a cook through high school and college. She assumed I’d cook in the marriage. And I, I thought she was-

Jim: Sounds good.

Jim R.: Yeah.

Shanna: Sounded good to me.

Jim R.: It just didn’t work out that way. (laughing)

Jim: And so, but you got married thinking, “She’d do all that stuff and I’ll do this stuff. I’ll be provider, protector.” Was that kind of your formula?

Jim R.: I don’t know what it was. I was coaching football and I was in ministry and I just thought she would serve me and meet all my needs.

Jim: (laughs).

Jim R.: And I didn’t realize, even while in ministry, how backwards and how contrary to Scripture that was and how immature I was-

Jim: Oh, yeah.

Jim R.: … through that process.

Jim: So you got home like that… After the honeymoon. Did you come home that night after your big, you know, coaching job and you sat at the table and you both looked at each other and said, “What are we doing? W- who’s cooking?”

Jim R.: What happened was: We walked into the house and I said, “What’s for dinner?” She said, “I don’t cook.”

Jim: (laughs).

Jim R.: I said, “Well, I’m gonna go take a shower.” She said, “Don’t use the towels on the handrail, use your old college towels, because those are decorative. And you can’t use the pillows on the bed or the duvet cover.” I didn’t even know what a duvet cover was.

Jim: Let alone spell it.

Jim R.: Yeah. I still don’t. And, uh, I d-… Uh, w- who did I marry?

Jim: Hmm. Wow. Yeah, that sounds like a rough start.

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim: Some of those things would have normally been talked about ahead of (laughs) time a little bit.

Shanna: Correct. And you would have thought that they were, especially with him being in ministry. So I think we just kind of walked in a little blind.

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Shanna: So.

Jim: Now, there was an epiphany. So the people that are going, “Oh yeah, that was us.”

Shanna: Mm-hmm.

Jim: There was that epiphany where you decided there had to be a better way. Who came up with that first idea of, this isn’t working?

Shanna: Jim did.

Jim R.: I was at a men’s conference, Promise Keepers Conference.

Jim: How long had you been married?

Jim R.: Two years.

Jim: Two years in, okay.

Jim R.: And I’m sitting at the conference. I’m hearing a, a guy scream from the pulpit, “You gotta out love and out serve your wife.” And I was sitting there going, “Man, this guy’s just saying the same thing over and over.” And about halfway through, God spoke to my heart. And I turned to the guy next to me, I said, “God just spoke to me.” “What’d He say?” “I need to out love and out serve my wife.”

Jim: (laughs).

Jim R.: And so I went home and I, I just, I made a public declaration in front of the church I was gonna do that. I didn’t know what that looked like, but I started making her coffee every morning. You know, we were raising kids and I’ve done that ever since. That’s kind of my, it’s my reminder to do that for her. And it changed our marriage. And she can tell you about how it changed for her, but –

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim R.: … changed our marriage.

Jim: Yeah. Well, tell me. I mean, those first days of that difference, did you notice it or were, you thought he was playing a game?

Shanna: No. I mean, he’s… We’re not game players. That’s not who we are. So, I mean, it, for me, meant so much because that meant that I was valued. A-

Jim: You felt it?

Shanna: Yes.

Jim: Right from the beginning?

Shanna: Yeah. I, I mean-

Jim: It’s like, wow.

Shanna: Because it was such a contrast to what we had been living.

Jim: Okay.

Shanna: Um, and unbeknownst to us, years later, we would find out that my love language was acts of service. So-

Jim: So that fit.

Shanna: Yes.

Jim: So you touched on it accidentally.

Jim R.: The Holy Spirit.

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: That’s all I can say. It was a miracle. And, um-

Jim: Yeah, that’s good.

Jim R.: I didn’t realize that that was her love language. And so now I know that she needs me to be Christ to her.

John: Mm.

Jim: So that, that’s a good epiphany two years in. Some couples, i- it may be 10 years, 20 years, and they still haven’t-

Shanna: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … had that kind of epiphany. They just kinda grind each other on the edges, but they’re in for the marriage. They’re not gonna divorce. And, you know, maybe this is gonna be the epiphany. Maybe we need to do something differently. So you wanna look at that and take that assessment.

Uh, Jim, let me ask you, you, kinda in the book, you describe the difference between maleness and masculinity. I don’t know that I could do that. I would think they’re kinda the same.

Jim R.: Yeah. I think toxic masculinity is oxymoronic. So if you look up the definition of masculinity in Oxford Dictionary, it’s the qualities and characteristics that make up a man. And so based on that definition, which is a secular definition, we don’t have toxicity. Toxicity comes from males, males who refuse to raise their families. They defer the leadership to another man, or they defer the leadership to social media. Uh, males do not accept the responsibilities that God has given them. But men, when they walk in their masculine gift, they step up. A man who knows Jesus Christ, he steps up, he loves his bride, he serves her, he leads the family, he understands the bent of his children, and he raises them up along with his wife accordingly. So there, I think that males are born, but men are made.

Jim: Yeah. No, I like that definition. I think unfortunately the culture, especially of the era, probably the last 20 years-

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … you know, we, we’ve leaned as a culture to, uh, raise up tenderness-

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … and kind of gentleness. Not necessarily, “Follow me, I will take this hill.”

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: “And we together will die on this hill.” I mean, that’s seen as like, oh, that’s a little strong. Do you know what I’m saying?

Jim R.: Yeah. I mean, if you look at the definition of meek in the Bible-

Jim: Right.

Jim R.: … it’s a stallion bridled.

Jim: Right.

Jim R.: So I still get to be-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jim R.: … a stallion, but I’m bri-… Right, babe?

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim R.: (laughs) Okay. Just checking. Just checking.

Jim: See, that was a good example of how to do it, men. (laughs) Thank you for listening to Focus on the Family.

Jim R.: (laughs).

Jim: (laughs).

Jim R.: You know, uh, I’m a, I’m a stallion that’s bridled by the Holy Spirit.

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: And that’s the, there’s strength under-

Jim: Direction.

Jim R.: … direction.

Jim: Yeah. I like that.

Jim R.: Yes, yes.

Jim: That’s good. Shanna, let me ask you, do you think men need to understand better the difference between the communication between men and women?

Shanna: Absolutely.

Jim: This is what Gary Smalley built his career on.

Shanna: Yes.

Jim R.: Yeah.

Jim: Yeah.

Shanna: Absolutely. Because we do speak completely differently. Like I can say something and I know what I mean and he hears something completely different.

Jim: Yeah.

Shanna: So, and every marriage is different. So you and Jean communicate differently than Jim and I would communicate. The way we communicate, most people would not enjoy each other or being married.

Jim: Yeah. And it’s good news that you’re able to overcome those things. That’s a wonderful testimony too.

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim: That you, you can be-

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … you know, in a bad spot, but there’s hope for everybody, which is what we’re-

Shanna: Yes.

Jim: … uh, hoping people will hear today. So if they’re in a bad spot, they can contact us.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: We have caring Christian counselors.

Shanna: Yes.

Jim: We’ve got a marriage assessment that Greg Smalley-

Jim R.: Yep.

Jim: … and the team put together and it’s really good stuff.

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And, uh, that’s what people need to think about with Focus. It’s just a treasure trove of content to help-

Jim R.: Yep.

Jim: … people do life better. And, uh, you’re a part of that. Uh, in that regard though, that communication-

Shanna: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, I’m thinking back to early marriage issues. There’s an assumption I think, uh, many wives will make that we get it, that we understand what you’re thinking. We don’t.

Shanna: No.

Jim: We can’t figure that out. I think for, to help men, if we’re putting it in that category, it’s really helpful for wives to just tell us what you expect.

Shanna: Yes.

Jim: And not to diminish our grade because we had to ask you to tell us. (laughs)

Shanna: Correct. And I think how we tell you, it needs to come across that it’s your idea for the most part.

Jim: (laughs).

Shanna: And so that art of communication, I’m still learning.

Jim: That could be really hard though. I don’t… You know, that’s one maybe we need to grow up a little bit on the guy side and-

Jim R.: Mm.

Jim: … I celebrate your idea. But I get what your-

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim: … your point is. Sometimes it goes better if it’s the other person’s idea. I think that can work both ways.

Shanna: Well, and just bringing it around, like, instead of you, you, you, it needs to be more of a conversation. Um, like just this last year when I had my shoulder surgery, I will probably never get that kind of time off of work again.

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Shanna: And so I had to bring it up to him, “Hey, it would be really great if you could take some time and let’s take a couple weeks and get away.” But the way I worded it, I don’t even remember, but I-

Jim: I bet Jim does.

Shanna: I know it was in-

Jim: Let’s go to Jim.

Shanna: I know it was in an email.

Jim R.: It was masterful. She sent me a text, “I need to talk to you. I don’t want you to respond. I just wanna talk to you.” And she said, “The next six months, I can’t work. We have an opportunity like we’ve never had in our marriage to spend quality time together. And I just want you to pray about taking two or three weeks off to spend time together building our marriage.”

Jim: Wow.

Jim R.: “Will you pray about that?” And she… The question, the question, she asked a question. She didn’t say, “You need to,” or “You should.”

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: She put it in my court, and I called her back instantly. “I’m in.” Because it was my call and she let me reason with it through my own processes. It was actually masterful.

Jim: Yeah. And that’s a good thing to do. I mean, and again, that works both ways, I think.

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Shanna: Yes.

Jim: Uh, you know, Jesus kind of modeled that for us, didn’t He?

Shanna: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Ask questions.

Jim R.: Yep.

Jim: And that can move hearts.

Shanna: Yes.

Jim: You know, especially when the person’s giving you the answer right away.

Jim R.: Oh, yeah. It’s easy.

Jim: A- and then that inclusiveness, it feels like, yeah, that’s the, that’s the, ooh, look what I get to do to shine for my bride. We do like that.

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim: We’re a little bit of a peacock mentality, you know? Look at the feathers-

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim: … right?

Shanna: Yes.

Jim: So it’s always fun. Jim, uh, men are called to be peacemakers. I don’t know that I would see that in myself. (laughs) I can be an agitator. I just did that last night. My boys were at the house and I, we were going on about something, Jean and I, and it was… Oh, it was putting my clothes away. Here’s a good confession.

Jim R.: Oh.

Jim: And, you know-

Jim R.: Been there.

Jim: A- and so I, you know, they’re out on the couch and we have company coming the next day, today. And I, you know, I need to get the clothes up, but I kept, like, needling Jean, just ribbing her. And I was just doing it for fun. And Trent, my oldest, is going, “Pull up. Pull up. Pull up.”

Jim R.: (laughs).

Shanna: (laughs).

Jim: He was already-

Jim R.: Crash imminent.

Jim: He was, like, locked in and-

Jim R.: Yeah.

Jim: I mean, I’m going, “Am I going?” “Yeah, just be quiet, dad.” I went, “Okay.” And Jean started laughing.

Jim R.: Ah.

Jim: And it was just one of those things. But some of that is learned behavior, right?

Shanna: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Where if you come from a home where you had siblings and you teased each other, which I did, that’s kind of what you did. You know, it’s kind of sport.

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim: But that could be damaging, can’t it?

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Shanna: Yes. Especially your spouse’s upbringing.

Jim: Y- yeah.

Shanna: I mean, it may not have been sport for them. It may have been more damaging-

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Shanna: … and hurtful.

Jim: So how do we bring that peacemaker mentality into that, Jim, as men? How do we become not the agitator, but the peacemaker?

Jim R.: Uh, there’s peacemakers, peacebreakers, and peacefakers.

Jim: Huh.

Jim R.: So a peacefaker just kind of goes with the flow, sweeps it under the table. It’s not there. We ignore it. It’s gonna go away. A peacemaker comes in with a God-honoring solution that will bring a remedy to a given situation. A peacebreaker erupts and causes dissension and just comes in like a wrecking ball. That was me. I framed her poorly during the course of our child-rearing years when we’re in the stress bubble of life. I framed her as the enemy. I framed her as the-

John: Mm.

Jim R.: … um, crazy one. Oh, the house has to be clean. She’s raising three boys plus another one. And so what I did is I brought peacebreaking into the household, and I’ve had to go back the last 10 years, repent to my adult children and repent to her and say… She’s a phenomenal. She’s a warrior. She’s faithful. I’ve had to just go back and fix that because I chose the route of peace breaking as a solution to a problem-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jim R.: … and it was wrong.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

John: There’s a lot there. You’ve got to be introspective, and you’ve got to have an open heart and honesty. Yeah. Well, well done on that. Yeah.

Jim: (laughs).

John: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guests are Jim and Shanna Ramos. And, uh, we’re so glad to have them here talking about marriage. Some of the content is from Jim’s book, Dialed In: Reaching Your Full Capacity as a Man of God, which is specifically for guys, but we’re so glad Shanna’s here to help-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

John: … uh, broaden out the conversation as we dial into marriage. Get a copy of the book from us here at the ministry. We’ve got, uh, the details for you at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: You know, Jim, in that context, uh, that shift can be, you know, you, you gotta be intentional-

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … I guess.

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, you gotta wake up every day, okay, I’m gonna serve my wife today. How did you do that? How did you keep that moving forward? How did you do it when you didn’t feel reciprocal appreciation? Not that Shanna didn’t, but I’m just saying in some cases it won’t happen. How do you say, “Okay, she may not be appreciating this, but Lord, I’m doing this for you.”

Jim R.: I made a prayer. I said, “God, I am going to out love and out serve my bride, even if she never reciprocates.”

John: Mm.

Jim R.: Because I’m a Christian man. I’m modeling Jesus Christ.

Jim: I like that.

Jim R.: And he didn’t- we did not reciprocate.

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: We killed him. So for me, it was simple. I’m gonna be Jesus to my bride. I’m gonna s- out love her and I’m gonna out serve her. I’m gonna do it all my life. And it does take maintenance for us. We, every 10 years, we go in for marriage counseling, whether we need it or not.

Jim: New battery.

Jim R.: Yes.

Jim: (laughs).

Jim R.: We just, we just do it. We don’t wanna wait for a crisis. We wanna work through that process.

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: And she’s, she’s learning to affirm my love language, which is words of affirmation. So when I do something to serve her and she goes, “That cup of coffee was the best I’ve ever had.” I’m like-

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: … I just wanna go make her another cup of coffee.

John: (laughs).

Jim R.: ‘Cause I wanna please her, right? I wanna do justice for her.

John: Mm.

Jim: Well, and it fits with that next question, you know, kinda men, and this has become a joke within marriage, like men are conquerors and you get married and you stop the pursuit because the conquest is done. You know, I won her heart and affection. We said I do.

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, so many, so many guys or wives will write us and say, “Yeah, my husband told me he loved me once at the altar. And when I asked him about it, it’s like, ‘What more do I need to say? I love you.'” But it’s not how it goes, right? It’s not a healthy way to describe that. So in that context, how do you overcome the reward of getting married to the woman you love and keeping that flame going? The intentionality is the problem. We are lazy lions.

John: Mm.

Jim R.: Yes.

Jim: And once we’ve feasted on the conquest, w- you know, it’s like, okay, we’re done. But that is not good.

Jim R.: When God said to leave your father and mother and cleave, that word cleave is the Hebrew word dabaq. I don’t know if you… You probably know this. It means four things. It means to impinge, like we’re gonna impinge upon each other’s singleness. It means to adhere to, to be joined to. But it also means to pursue, overtake, and chase after. And my job, that’s my g-

Jim: She’s smiling.

Jim R.: And the women love to hear that.

Jim: Shanna’s smiling ear to ear.

Jim R.: Women love… That’s my job. And my job to cleave to her is to make sure I am pursuing her, which she does naturally. She naturally is built that way. I’m a natural conqueror. So God asks me and God’s ingen-… God’s so s-… This is c-… He asked me to do what’s not my default.

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: He asks me to do the hard thing.

John: Mm.

Jim R.: Love her, that’s not my default. My default is respect. And He asks me to pursue her. That’s not my default. My default is conquer. So He asks us… Doesn’t He always ask us to do the hard thing? He asks us to take the high road.

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: And that’s what the joy of being a man and unfolding the mystery that is her. I just learned a year and a half ago she prefers crunchy peanut butter over creamy.

John: Oh.

Jim: Who doesn’t?

Jim R.: Well, apparently a woman who raises three boys who like creamy peanut butter and sacrificing for the boys.

Jim: (laughs).

Shanna: (laughs).

Jim R.: So just a year ago, I learned that. It’s a, she’s a mystery that’s unfolding.

Jim: (laughs).

Jim R.: I wanna pursue the mystery that is Shanna.

Jim: I just want it known. I can go creamy or crunchy. I love it both.

Jim R.: (laughs).

Jim: So-

Shanna: It depends. Yeah.

Jim: It’s so good.

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim: Depends on the day. But Shanna, it must make you feel good.

Shanna: Well, yeah. Uh-

Jim: I mean, connected. What do you need, as a wife, to feel connected?

Shanna: Time.

Jim: Wow. Okay.

Shanna: Which is tough for people that are in ministry or my job takes me away. Um, but for me, it’s time. S-

Jim: When you look at that benefit, I mean, you’re doing some marriage counseling, I would think. Even, you know-

Jim R.: Little bit.

Jim: … ad hoc.

Jim R.: Yes.

Jim: But when you’re talking to couples that are struggling, like you did your first couple of years of marriage, how do you… And I’m thinking particularly the men, Jim.

Jim R.: Yes.

Jim: ‘Cause I… The intentionality is what keeps, uh. You know, I sit here and hear all the experts tell great things to do and, and I often don’t apply them.

Jim R.: 100%.

Jim: And it… We as men do have a, a, an apathy. We just… It’s discipline to do these things-

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … and do it over and over again to get the right result, to get the smile like Shanna had just given. But I don’t know why we struggle with that. So let’s knock that down. What… For a guy that isn’t able to do it consistently, how do we become more consistent in serving our wives well?

Jim R.: I have had so many conversations with couples that are failing in their marriage. The marriage is, uh, there’s a certain test I use, and their marriage is devitalized. And, uh, I’ve asked one question to Christian men that’s been a game changer, because most people I deal with aren’t in need of a professional counselor. They’re just needing wisdom and a kick in the pants or whatever. And I ask this question, “Man, I’m looking at this test here. Are you both Christians?” “Yes.” “Well, where’s Jesus?” And I look at the man and I say, “Are you gonna be Jesus in this relationship?” And when a man, a Christian man, realizes he’s not being Jesus to the one person God has called him to be Jesus to, it can be a game changer.

John: Mm.

Jim R.: We just need to be Jesus to our spouse.

Jim: Right. Uh, i- it’s just that. Do you know I’m not perfect, Jim?

Jim R.: Yeah. (laughs) Me neither, bro.

Jim: (laughs) I just wanted to put that out there.

Jim R.: Well, my wife-

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: … will attest to that.

Jim: But, but I so appreciate the point. And this is what it means to be a convictional Christian.

Jim R.: Yes.

Jim: To live it. And when you live it, it’s amazing what the Lord will do through you. Let’s talk at the end here about WALKING the, uh, acronym that you use to help guys-

Jim R.: Yes.

Jim: … think this through. Give it to us. What is WALKING?

Jim R.: Yeah.

Jim: It’s a rather long word, by the way. I kinda laughed when I saw that.

Jim R.: I know.

Jim: I said, I’m looking for simple.

Shanna: (laughs).

Jim: How about walk?

Jim R.: I know. I’m apol- I apologize. I was… I had an argument with a, a, the pastor who married us.

Jim: (laughs).

Jim R.: Who had actually left the, uh, the local church ministry. I’m a big fan of the local church. And we had this big discussion about Christians not needing the local church. And so I went back-

Jim: Oh, wow.

Jim R.: … and I had to re-… I was 27.

Shanna: Mm-hmm.

Jim R.: And he was in his 40s. So I went back and I thought, okay, what does a Christian look like? A vibrant, dynamic Christian man. And I’m an old youth pastor, so I love acrostics.

Jim: Yes.

Jim R.: So I’ve just came up with this acrostic, WALKING, based off of, uh, Genesis, uh, 5:10, Enoch.

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: Enoch, walk with God.

John: Mm.

Jim R.: And, basically, he worships God on a regular basis. A, he approaches God daily in prayer. L, he loves other believers through Christian fellowship. K, he knows the word of God better than anyone in his family. I’ll put that in parentheses. Uh, I, he invests his fiscal and physical resources in God’s kingdom. N, he nurtures other believers into faith, right? And then G, he gives his life wholeheartedly to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Galatians 6:14, Galatians 2:20, John 12:24. So these seven things, in my opinion, make a disciple a vibrant, dynamic man of God, woman of God.

Jim: That’s really good.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim R.: I think it’s pretty good.

Jim: (laughs).

Jim R.: And it’s memorable.

John: It is.

Jim: Yeah.

John: It is.

Jim: No kidding.

John: Yeah.

Jim: And Shanna, you’re the recipient of this.

Shanna: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So, you know, Jim’s trying to spark us men that are listening and probably the wives that are listening that are gonna get this book and lay it on their husband’s pillow. And what’s the benefit?

Shanna: A vitalized relationship.

John: Mm.

Shanna: Not a devitalized relationship. But it does go both ways. The women have to be willing to work as well.

Jim: Yeah.

Shanna: And not just the men. Um, ’cause it is a two-way street-

Jim: Yeah.

Shanna: … for sure.

Jim: What does that look like, you know, in the relationship, for you as the wife? What is that reciprocation? When you feel filled up, you know, we use the love tank language.

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim: Uh, and so when your love tank is full, what does that, what does that allow you to do emotionally for Jim?

Shanna: Give him hi- back his love language, words of affirmation.

Jim: Yeah.

Shanna: Which I am not good at.

Jim: Really?

Shanna: No. It is-

Jim: So you’ve had to learn how to do that too.

Shanna: Yes.

Jim: That’s your discipline challenge-

Shanna: Yes.

Jim: … is, how do I say things affirming to Jim?

Shanna: Yeah. ‘Cause I’m not-

Jim: What does that sound like?

Shanna: I’m not a faker.

Jim: Yeah.

Shanna: So I can’t say, “Oh, that was great message.”

Jim: (laughs) When you don’t think so.

John: Yeah. (laughs).

Jim: Well, at least she’s honest, Jim.

Jim R.: She’s my greatest coach. Before every sermon, she goes, “You better bring it.” “Yes, ma’am.”

Jim: Wow. No, it’s a good challenge.

Jim R.: Oh, I love it. It fires me up.

Jim: She’s like your coach. Yeah.

Jim R.: I need her to say that to me.

Jim: So that’s good though. So you have to be sincere-

Shanna: Yes.

Jim: … for you to deliver that.

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim: But that sincerity goes up when you feel loved.

Shanna: Yeah. And the more I do it, the easier it becomes.

Jim: Mm.

Shanna: It’s kind of like a habit. Like people that need to spend time in their marriage, if it’s just one hour a week, then just take that one hour a week.

Jim: Yeah.

Shanna: If that’s all you’ve got right now.

Jim: That’s really good. And I think that, you know, this message is awesome. And I think, again, we, as human beings, we tend to point to our spouse and say, “That’s the problem. She’s the one or he’s the one.”

Shanna: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And all we can do is work on ourselves in the relationship.

Shanna: Yes.

Jim: I remember writing a book, uh, my first book on coming home, and the criticism I got is that, “Well, Jim Daly’s advice is keep your expectations low.”

Jim R.: (laughs).

Jim: You know, I grew up as that orphan kid. I didn’t have-

Jim R.: Yeah.

Jim: … high expectations-

Shanna: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … about adults in my life, and I think it did give me an understanding-

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … of how the world works-

John: Mm.

Jim: … pretty young.

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim: And I don’t, I don’t even mean it as a bad thing but just keep your expectations a little more in reality. And that allows you to experience, I think, a, a more joyful life.

Jim R.: Mm.

Jim: When you’re not having an expectation of what the other person should do for me.

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Shanna: Right.

Jim: Right?

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim R.: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And in marriage, it’s critical.

Shanna: Yeah.

Jim: And I don’t always do it well. I know Jean’s watching. (laughing) So I had to throw that caveat in like, “Oh yeah, you’re a top of the mountain guy.” But, uh, but it’s our target. So this has been great. Thank you so much for being with us.

Shanna: Thank you.

Jim R.: Yes.

Jim: This is flying by.

Shanna: Huge honor.

Jim: Yeah.

Jim R.: Right, right.

Jim: And I hope you’ve been equipped to strengthen your marriage. That’s the goal. If you found it helpful, share this episode with your spouse and you can find it, uh, at our website or at the Focus on the Family app.

And if you’re a husband who wants more insights into stepping up in your marriage and in other areas of your life, get a copy of Jim’s book, Dialed In: Reaching Your Full Capacity as a Man of God. When you make a gift of any amount to Focus on the Family to join us in ministry, we’ll send you a copy as our way of saying thank you.

And when you donate, you help us encourage husbands, like Ken, who wrote in to tell us this. He said his job requires him to spend weeks at a time away from his family, and he and his wife listen to the program to get advice for building up their marriage so they can talk about it together on the phone.

He went on to say, “It just keeps me and my wife grounded, so I tell my coworkers who might be having a bad day to listen to Focus on the Family.” That’s a fun thing.

Jim R.: I appreciate that.

Jim: Uh, partner with us financially to help us reach more listeners and keep providing biblical resources for our families.

John: Yeah, donate today. Uh, get your copy of the book when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Or details are at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

And coming up next time, we’ll hear from mom and counselor, Michelle Nietert. She’ll share wisdom about teens and mental health.

Preview:

Michelle Nietert: You do not put a kid who’s got a broken arm, let’s say they’re struggling with anxiety or something already, you do not put them in a canoe to swim upstream with one paddle. They need other people on the boat to help them move that boat along the upstream of our culture today.

End of Preview

John: Thanks for listening today to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.