Preview:
Deborah Pegues: Whenever you can, encourage rather than criticize. And I think that is just so critical because it impacts other people’s progress. When… And when you read the story of Miriam in the Bible where they criticize Moses and then, uh, God struck her with leprosy, the whole place came to a standstill. They couldn’t move. Nobody could move forward. And I say that’s a lesson there, because when you are critical like that, it, it really impedes other people’s progress.
John Fuller: Well, Deborah Pegues joins us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and, uh, she’s gonna be talking about how your words reveal your heart. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: Y- you know, John, have you ever said something that, as the words are coming out, you’re wishing, hoping that you could get them back in? (laughs)
John: Oh, oh, far too many times.
Jim: It’s kind of a trick question, right?
John: Yeah, it is.
Jim: I remember doing a devotion with Trent and Troy when they were younger, and I squeezed out toothpaste-
John: Yeah.
Jim: … and then said, “Now put it back in the tube.” Of course, you can’t.
John: No, no, no.
Jim: You could get a little back in there, but you, you can’t do it. And that’s the whole point of the devotional. You know, once you say something, it’s, it’s-
John: It’s out there.
Jim: … impossible to put it back in the tube.
John: Yeah.
Jim: And it was, I think, a pretty impactful, a little devotional. But today, we want to talk about how to curb what we say and how we say it so our words reflect Christ. You don’t have to worry about getting it back in the tube if you’re reflecting the words of Jesus, right?
John: Yes.
Jim: Compassion and, and, you know, good questions, being interested in somebody, sincere, loving, kind, all the fruit of the Spirit.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: The Bible tells us to do everything without complaining or arguing. Yeah, just that one command could take a lifetime to master. That’s my experience because it isn’t really about the tongue. It’s about the heart, as the scripture says. From the heart, the tongue speaks. And, uh, man, we need to be mindful as Christians about those things. Here’s the hope, with God’s help and the Holy Spirit’s guidance, we can grow in this area. We can learn to pause, to take our thoughts captive and to bless instead of wound. And here at Focus on the Family, we want to work on that, and we’re assuming you too, as a believer in Christ, will want to work on that. So we’re gonna cover this today with our great friend and guest, Deborah Pegues.
John: Yeah, she is one of our most popular guests. We always love having her back here, and she spent many years as a leader in the corporate world. She’s a CPA, a certified behavioral consultant, a Bible teacher, international speaker, and has written a number of books, including 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue: What You Say (and Don’t Say) Will Improve Your Relationships, which is really the topic for the conversation today. You can learn more about the book at FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast. And Jim, we’re gonna pick it up as you asked Deborah about why taming the tongue is so important.
Jim: Why do you think people have resonated with your message?
Deborah: Well, first of all, I think it’s because God took a mess and turned it into a message because I wrote the book-
Jim: (laughs) I like that.
Deborah: … because I messed up.
Jim: (laughs)
Deborah: I, I mean, it was… It’s an accidental book, but I don’t like to use that word, accidental, when I’m talking about the things of God. So I’m gonna say it’s a providential book. But I really messed up and told something I wasn’t supposed to tell and I wasn’t being indiscreet. I was just trying to rescue somebody and so… And it backfired. I was trying to help somebody out, blah, blah, blah. It backfired, and she was so upset with me. I decided to go on a tongue fast myself. I’m gonna put myself on a plan for 30 days, and I’m not gonna say anything negative. Now, now just try that, all right?
Jim: So this was for you in the end.
Deborah: It was, it was a personal project for me only.
Jim: I appreciate that vulnerability.
Deborah: (laughs) Yeah.
Jim: ‘Cause I… a lot of people would say, “Yeah, I wrote it for a friend.”
John: (laughs)
Deborah: No, I wrote it for me. And, and, and people kept… And I would put signs in my office at work. Uh, it would say tongue fast. That means when you come in here, don’t discuss anything negative. I’m on a tongue fast. If people started to be negative, I’d say, “I can’t discuss that.” And so somebody said, “I believe God wants you to write a book.” No, I believe God wants me to work on me. (laughs)
Jim: Okay. And-
Deborah: So I finally did.
Jim: … and, and this really is capturing that journey-
Deborah: Yeah, absolutely.
Jim: … and what you did.
Deborah: Yeah.
Jim: Now, why are we so… Broadly, why are we all so affected with tongue problems? I mean, it’s so natural for us in our flesh to lash out, to say things we regret.
Deborah: It is.
Jim: Why?
Deborah: Because we’re human and, and also because we’re not, uh, created carbon copies of each other and so we don’t always know other people’s sensitivities. You know, you may jokingly say something about my dark skin. You may not know that I am just like, “Oh, don’t say that,” or whatever. You just never know what people’s sensitivities are and so you’re bound to offend somebody.
Jim: Yeah. And, and even though you’re challenging us for 30 days, you started to say, you know, “Just try it for 24 hours.”
Deborah: Yes.
Jim: I want you to finish that challenge-
Deborah: Okay. So-
Jim: … because I, I think you’re gonna say, “It’s hard.”
Deborah: I’m… I was gonna say that at the end, but I’ll say it now because don’t think you can do all 30 of these, uh, tongues that I’ve listed in the book. I have 30 negative uses of the tongue.
Jim: So one for each day.
Deborah: Just try one a day or just try one a week. (laughs)
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: Just… For instance, if you have trouble telling the whole truth, you tend to tell half the truth, just say, “This week, I’m gonna tell the whole truth and nothing but. I’m not gonna imply something that’s not true.” Here’s an example. I’m… I tend to run late for things sometimes-
Jim: (laughs)
Deborah: … and I’ll just come in… Now in L.A., you know, I would rush in and go, “Ah, traffic.”
Jim: Yeah. It’s always a good excuse. Yeah.
Deborah: Now, I didn’t say I was in traffic. I didn’t say I was in traffic. I just said, “Traffic.” (laughs) Half truth. My husband said, “Listen, the half truth is a whole lie.” (laughs)
Jim: Wow, that’s good.
Deborah: Yeah. And so… But, but see, you see subtle ways that we can, l- like, not tell the truth. And so we all have negative uses of the tongue. So I, I… When I started this project, I said, “I’m gonna look up every negative use of the tongue I can find in the Bible. I’m gonna find scriptures for them, and then I’m gonna, uh, put a challenge out there to refrain from it.” So that’s what I did.
Jim: Yeah, and that’s good. And we’re gonna cover some of those.
Deborah: Yeah.
Jim: One is the know-it-all tongue. Now, the people that, the know-it-all people just went, “No, don’t cover that one.”
Deborah: (laughs)
Jim: So-
John: We already have this one. Move on to the next, please.
Deborah: (laughs)
Jim: What is the know-it-all tongue?
Deborah: Where you just can’t even receive from anybody else, but every subject that comes up, you have the final word on it. Even if you’re in Bible study and, and there’s been a great lesson laid out and you’ll say, “But what we have to really remember above all…” It’s like, no, we don’t.
Jim: (laughs)
Deborah: That’s not above all. (laughs)
Jim: You even have the vocabulary for this.
Deborah: No, really. Or, or, here’s the funny thing. When we’re buying a car, because I, I deliberately like to let people teach me things.. I, I just think it makes them feel better-
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: … especially if they think-
Jim: Even if you already know it, is the point.
Deborah: If you already know it. And see, that’s a big challenge.
Jim: That’s hard to do.
Deborah: It’s hard to let… especially for men.
Jim: Yes.
Deborah: (laughs) It’s hard.
Jim: You want to be the teacher.
Deborah: Uh, yeah.
Jim: I’ve been here, son.
Deborah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And s- Yes.
Jim: Let me show you how to change that tire.
Deborah: Yes. So sometimes when we’re buying a car or something and, and they’ll talk down to me because I’m the little woman, I think it’s so funny because I am a CPA and they’ll explain that, you know, with interest, you know, the payment has interest and principle. I think that is so funny. I have an MBA in finance. I can do an amortization schedule in my head. And I’ll say, “Okay,” and I’ll just act like they’re telling me something. (laughs)
Jim: (laughs) It’s hard to bite your tongue in that case.
Deborah: Well, but, but if you choose to because… Let me tell you why you want to do that. It’s pride. You don’t want anybody to think you don’t know something. It’s this fear of appearing to be inadequate.
Jim: Yes.
Deborah: So no, no, I’m adequate. I know that already.
Jim: That’s true. I think for men, it’s hard to say I don’t know, if I could be blunt. It’s hard to say that. And that is something we gotta get over.
Deborah: W- And, and there are-
Jim: I’m working on it.
Deborah: There are examples of, of it in the Bible.
Jim: That should be the one, the 30 day challenge of saying, “I don’t know.”
Deborah: Yeah, just I-
Jim: That’s what I’m gonna do.
Deborah: Right. Yeah. It’s okay.
Jim: What about in marriage? How does this know-it-all tongue tend to play out in marriage?
Jim: Ouch.
Deborah: Well, I’ll tell you what my, what my mentor told me when she said, um… When I was engaged to Darnell and she was in a car with us one day, we were discussing something and she said, “Okay, Missy (laughs), we know you’re smart, but don’t know everything.” (laughs) She said-
Jim: That is true.
Deborah: … “Let him know some things.”
Jim: Yeah. (laughs)
Deborah: And I’m thinking to myself, “Yeah, I plan to let him know some things.” (laughing)
Jim: Starting right now.
Deborah: Right. Starting right now. But I, I, I took that to heart. Let him know some things. You don’t have to jump in there and say, “Oh, I, I can do that.” And so I’m, I’m pretty good at being vulnerable. It, it just helps. (laughs)
John: Yeah.
Jim: But it is, it’s a maturity in Christ-
Deborah: Yeah.
Jim: … to be able to bite the tongue and say, “Okay, I don’t have to straighten him out every time.”
Deborah: You don’t have to straighten anybody out. You don’t have to tell somebody, “I, I know that,” or… You know, you just don’t have to do that. That’s pride and you gotta call it what it is.
Jim: Well, there are teenagers though. (laughing) You might want to straighten some of them out.
Deborah: Oh yes, absolutely.
Jim: Okay, now the argumentative tone.
Deborah: Oh boy.
Jim: Oh, is this one hitting a little, a little spot there?
Deborah: No, I grew up in a family that like to argue. My… I have, I have relatives that arguing is their norm.
Jim: Okay, so let me ask that. The… So your family of origin, how you grow up could shape some of these tongue-
Deborah: Absolutely.
Jim: … maladies.
Deborah: Because you could, you could become like that or you could come… become the complete opposite. I decided I didn’t want to be argumentative because I just thought it sh- an argument should have a resolution… (laughs)
Jim: You’re right.
Deborah: … not just keep going in a circle-
Jim: (laughs)
Deborah: … because that’s how my parents argued and they just… I, I never saw them really resolve something and say, “Okay, from now on, this is how we’re gonna go forward.” It would just become circular. They’d just go into the next level of an argument. And I just think when people do that, it’s because I think they’re maybe feeling insecure about what they do know.
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: Why do you need to argue that? I have a, a brother who likes to argue the Bible. I don’t argue the Bible. I just tell you what part I embrace, which is all of it, and if you choose not to, that’s fine. (laughs)
Jim: That sounds pretty definitive.
Deborah: (laughs)
Jim: But it’s true. And I, I can, you know, I can understand that. I think you can create an environment of arguing-
Deborah: Yes.
Jim: … and some people might even say that’s a positive because you wanna be able to stand on firm ground, you wanna be able to defend your positions.
Deborah: And you should. You should be able to defend your faith, but you don’t have to be mean about it.
Jim: Well, that’s true.
Deborah: Yeah, you know-
Jim: I totally believe that.
Deborah: Because I, I think that’s what’s wrong even in, in politics. I’m… You know, this last election just split a lot of relationships.
Jim: Sure.
Deborah: And I’m thinking I, I’m friends with everybody. I, I embrace everybody’s right to believe what they wanna believe.
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: I don’t, I don’t… Why do you have to believe the way I do?
Jim: Yeah. But there’s a certain intolerance in the… a growing intolerance in the culture-
Deborah: Yeah, it is.
Jim: … in this regard and it’s both left and right and-
Deborah: It, it, it is-
Jim: It is destroying-
Deborah: … and it’s too bad.
Jim: … the stability.
Deborah: It, it’s too bad. Yeah. Yeah.
Jim: Well, okay, that’s a good place to put that argumentative tongue. What about again in marriage? Let me apply this here. When you have the spouse, and I’m not gonna say it’s the wife or the husband-
Deborah: Right.
Jim: … just the spouse who, who is just constantly picking a fight, what do you do? What if you’re the receiver of that, what advice do you have for that spouse to say, “Honey, can you stop chewing me up?”
Deborah: Let me-
Jim: “I’m not processing at your speed. I’m not… You’re just killing me here.”
Deborah: Well, well, I think you need to agree quickly with your adversary. (laughing)
Jim: Yeah, right.
Deborah: As the Bible talks about, agree quickly with your adversary. So if my husband and I are in a discussion, I will say, “I hear you.” You see, I don’t, I don’t give any fuel to that. I’ll say, “I hear you.” If he’s putting forth a point, and if I don’t… I hear you does not mean I agree with you. It means I literally hear you (laughs)
Jim: Right.
Deborah: But that helps because-
Jim: But it reduces the friction.
Deborah: It does because half the part of resolving an argument is for that person to feel like they’ve been heard and you’re validating their point. So I hear you will do that.
Jim: Huh.
Deborah: I, I hear you. And then I can say, “W- we can just agree to disagree.”
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: “That’s what makes us so unique. We’re different.”
Jim: There, there is … I… And I think generally when people say, “I hear you,” they do hear you.
Deborah: Yeah.
Jim: There is the occasional time when-
Deborah: Yeah.
Jim: … the person being told I hear you knows you not listening.
Deborah: Well, you gotta listen though. You got-
Jim: Right.
Deborah: You gotta-
Jim: So it has to be-
Deborah: You listen with your eyes-
Jim: … sincere.
Deborah: … and your expressions. You, you listen and you nod your head.
Jim: Yeah.
John: Mm-hmm.
Deborah: You do. Yeah.
Jim: Yeah.
John: Uh, Deborah Pegues is our guest on Focus on the Family today and, uh, 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue, it’s sold over a million copies. If you don’t have it, get a copy of it.
Jim: (laughs) That’s right.
John: Uh, get a CD or download of this conversation at FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast or give us a call. We’d be happy to tell you more, 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY.
Jim: Deborah, the complaining tongue. I mean, again, these are societal problems right now.
Deborah: Yes.
Jim: We seem to relish complaining.
Deborah: All of us.
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: It’s contagious.
Jim: Yeah-huh.
Deborah: And we gotta be sensitive to it. That’s why I call this a fast, uh, where you become keenly aware of your tendency to engage in these negative behaviors and complaining is so natural. I don’t care, you can be in a market and everybody’s… Here’s, here’s a good example. In the bank, in the bank. Oh, the line is long or whatever. And for people who still go to the bank.
Jim: Yeah, I was gonna say, “Do you go in the bank?”
Deborah: Most of us do online banking. Well, some people do that, you know.
Jim: I don’t think I’ve been in a bank in years. (laughs)
Deborah: You know, like in years, you gotta go there or, or I have to send-
John: It’s because the lines are too long.
Jim: (laughs)
Deborah: I, I have to send money off t- to relatives in distress (laughs) so you have to go to Walmart or somewhere and stand in that line. I hate it. But, you know, but the complaint is like, “Oh.” And I’m thinking, “You’re standing here because you have access to resources. Do you know that half the world lives on less than $2 a day?”
Jim: So the half-
Deborah: Yeah.
Jim: … full cup, you know.
Deborah: Right. So… But here’s the deal, you gotta become aware of your complaining. And I think that we could actually park on this and spend an hour talking about it because it is so easy. So I like to give people a challenge to go the next 24 hours, don’t express any displeasure with anything, not the traffic, not the weather, nothing that you can’t do anything about. And in the scripture, the Psalm, it says, “I poured out my complaint before the Lord.” If the person you’re complaining to can’t do anything about it, stop talking. (laughs)
Jim: Yeah. I’ll… Here’s one that’s funny for us. Uh, I remember when I first started Focus on the Family, it was 1989.
Deborah: Wow.
Jim: That was a long time ago. And I was on a training mission with another person and we were out and we went to a rental car counter to get the car and the… they had no cars.
Deborah: Ooh.
Jim: And it was just a… out of a comedy, you know, situation. And so the person who’s training me from Focus on the Family was kind of upset, you know, with the, the agent saying, “Well, I reserved a car. Why wouldn’t you have a car for me?” And, you know, it was a little heated and, you know-
Deborah: Wow.
Jim: … you’re gonna get a car? And the, the person finally brought all the information up on the screen and they said, “Oh, Focus on the Family. I love Dr. Dobson-
Deborah: Oops.
Jim: “… and Focus on the Family.”
Deborah: (laughs)
Jim: And this person went, “Oh, great. That’s so wonderful.”
Deborah: (laughs)
Jim: I mean, their tone changed like this.
Deborah: Yeah. Yeah.
Jim: I mean… And that was a great lesson for me to bite my tongue, you know, when… on an airline problem or a rental car problem.
Deborah: Absolutely.
Jim: I’m trying to always behave myself because you never know when they’re gonna say, “Oh, I listen to you on the radio.” (laughs)
Deborah: Okay, now lest I sound like a walking Bible, let me tell you, this is what keeps me from complaining. Romans 8:28, “All things are working together for my good.” Now, I… it may not look like it, but if I stop and tell myself that this delay is working for my good, this traffic is working for my good, God is protecting me-
Jim: That’s a hard one to believe. Come on.
Deborah: … from something. No, really? I do it. I do it.
Jim: This traffic’s working for my good.
Deborah: Oh, this, this traffic. I mean, you know… And I don’t care if I get up there two miles later and see an accident, well, that could have been me if that car hadn’t cut in front of me and-
Jim: There you go.
Deborah: … slowed me down.
Jim: All right.
Deborah: You know, so we gotta believe that. Yeah.
Jim: It’s, it’s a good way to look at things.
Deborah: Yeah.
Jim: Let’s go to the self-absorbed tongue. I mean, that one’s-
Deborah: Oh, my.
Jim: That’s tough to say with your tongue, but, uh, the self-absorbed tongue, what are you describing there?
Deborah: I’m describing a person who’s always talking about himself. (laughs)
Jim: The me monster.
Deborah: They, they’re not interested in you, you know, and what you’re about and your dreams and hopes. They’re just talking about all the wonderful things that happened to them. “Oh, my book 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue has sold a million copies and I’m in Denver doing six media interviews and I’m just me, me, me, me.”
Jim: Can I ask you though, at the core of that is deep insecurity.
Deborah: Deep insecurity.
Jim: So there’s, there’s more stuff going on there. So how-
Deborah: Absolutely.
Jim: How does the person, once again, go to the spouse, you’re married to that person.
Deborah: Okay.
Jim: How, how… You’ve noticed this, you obviously said yes, but h- how do you begin to say, “Honey, have you ever really just recorded what you’re saying? Have you ever heard yourself and what you’re saying?” How, how do you go about helping each other grow?
Deborah: I would take the sandwich approach. You always say something positive, then you give them the meat of the matter, and you can say, “Listen, I just love it that God has blessed you in so many areas. Uh, he’s just caused you to achieve in so many areas or so many great things are happening. Are, are you aware of the fact that other people may not be as blessed and it, it may not be very, um, endearing to them to hear all about you like that.
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: … and so you might want to focus on other people, ask them questions and show them how to do it.” My husband and I have… And he’s not self-absorbed, but as part of networking, he’s learned how to ask people questions and be interested in others.
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: Because you know, they say that ev- everybody’s favorite subject is what? Themselves.
John: Themselves.
Deborah: (laughs)
John: Yeah. Yeah.
Deborah: So I like to focus on other people. I don’t want to just focus on me and what I’m doing. I like to ask them questions. You know, so tell me about your background. Where did you grow up?
Jim: Yeah. And it’s so… People love to engage and-
Deborah: They do.
Jim: … talk about themselves.
Deborah: And we got to watch that so that we… And we listen to it and be genuinely interested in it.
Jim: Here’s the greatest challenge on earth when you have children, and especially again, I’ll just go to the teen years, uh, that’s an important parenting tool, how to ask questions of your teenager-
Deborah: Yes.
Jim: … rather than just de-… And really thoughtful questions, not how did school go today?
Deborah: Yeah.
Jim: ‘Cause that’s a grunt. Yeah, good. You know?
Deborah: Yeah. Uh, even if you ask them, who’s your favorite teacher? Why? What do you like about her style?
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: Who, who… What teacher do you not like the most? What, what do you not like about that?
Jim: And why not?
Deborah: Yeah.
Jim: And then don’t be judgmental about it.
Deborah: Don’t be judgmental, just listen.
Jim: Well, that’s a great teacher.
Deborah: Yeah, don’t-
Jim: You need to learn math.
Deborah: Yeah, yeah. (laughing) Listen.
John: It’s fun.
Deborah: Two ears, one mouth. Listen. (laughs)
Jim: There you go. Uh, you also, uh, mentioned a moment ago the half truth tongue. I, I really appreciate all these wonderful tongue twisters that you give us.
Deborah: (laughs)
Jim: The half truth tongue. Elaborate on that a little bit more. I like that idea of-
Deborah: Of telling the whole truth. Okay.
Jim: Prevarication is what the scripture calls it.
Deborah: Well, and we don’t think we lie, do we?
Jim: No.
Deborah: Let’s just call it what it is.
Jim: Well, it’s not a full lie.
Deborah: It’s just a half lie, but as my husband said, “A half truth is a whole lie.”
Jim: Yeah, embellishing.
Deborah: But I used to be the queen of that. I would just tell half the truth if I had to take off from work and take my mom to the doctor. I only needed like four hours, but I would just take off the rest of the day because like, “Oh, I had to take my mom to the doctor.”
Jim: Do you think-
Deborah: Well, I did take my mom to the doctor.
Jim: Right.
Deborah: It didn’t take all day, but… (laughs)
Jim: Do you think… (laughs) I’m, I’m saying that because I think in the Christian community, we really pour ourselves into this one-
Deborah: (laughs)
Jim: … ’cause we can get… We think we’re getting away with it, but the Lord sees that and He doesn’t want that.
Deborah: He doesn’t want it.
Jim: He wants us to be honest and straightforward. I guess the question then becomes, are we a culture that, that struggles with honest and straightforward?
Deborah: We struggle with sin, period. And if we’re not conscious of it, which is why I like for people to go on these 30 day periods of absence from certain things, uh, b- because it sensitizes you to where you are. You know, and we all have areas of our tongue, especially that we could be, we could be less critical, we could be less a whole bunch of things. And so if we, if we tend to tell half the truth, understand that it’s just pleasing to God. And if you want to read a story ki- just kind of like that with Ananias and Sapphira, who sold their land in the book of Acts and, and they said, um… Because everybody else was selling land and donating it, it was such a, uh, a culture there that everybody was sharing. And they said, “Yeah, we sold ours,” but they told a lie. They did sell it, but they lied about how much they sold it for. They kept back part of it and God struck them dead. Now-
Jim: I think a lot of people that read that go, “Wow-”
Deborah: You know what I mean?
Jim: “… that’s pretty harsh.”
Deborah: That’s pretty harsh, but I think God was setting a precedent that says, “Listen, this… We’re not gonna tolerate this.”
Jim: Don’t mess with this.
Deborah: Yeah.
John: Yeah.
Deborah: No, we need to tell the truth. Foundationally, we need to… We need to base the church on the truth.
John: Back to what you were saying though-
Deborah: Okay.
John: … about your own experiences, why were you telling half truths about taking your mom to the doctor or something else?
Jim: Well, that’s a good question.
Deborah: Because I was trying to mislead people. Listen, any lie is an intent to deceive.
John: But for what purpose is this?
Deborah: Because I wanted them to think it took all day so I could go do something else. I don’t want to say I took my mom to the doctor for three hours and I spent the other five shopping.
Jim: (laughs)
John: Ah, okay.
Deborah: (laughs)
Jim: Can, can… This is a really tough one.
Deborah: I, I didn’t want-
Jim: Is it ever reasonable to just, you know, uh, you have to tell the whole truth really every time?
Deborah: You don’t have to volunteer the whole truth, but if you… Look, you always have to look at the intent of the heart.
Jim: Okay. That’s good. That’s the crux.
Deborah: If, if your intent, even with the silence-
John: Yeah.
Deborah: … if the intent is to deceive, meaning I want you to think something different than what the reality is, then you are lying. (laughs)
Jim: Yeah. And that’s what it is.
Deborah: It is. See, if you just call a spade a spade, then you can just go on and be healed.
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: You can’t be healed of things you conceal. You really can’t.
Jim: Now, in that context of encouragement, uh, you know, it’s so fun. It’s almost like giving a birthday present when you can be an encourager.
Deborah: Yes.
Jim: But again, uh, just personally, that can be a struggle at times because you’re feeling like we need reprimand, we need course correction, especially if you’re in management, you’re leading people, you’re, you have kids at home, there are times when you have to be helping them see the path.
Deborah: Right, and giving them hope rather than punishment.
Jim: Well, giving them hope, but ha- sometimes it might be punishment.
Deborah: And an expectation though that, I know you can do better than this. And there may have to be a punishment, but don’t… You don’t leave it with just that.
Jim: Well, and I just want people to make, uh… and me to hear from you that, you know, course correction is okay. God… That’s truth and that’s-
Deborah: Absolutely.
Jim: … that’s something that God wants us to do to encourage each other. Even Paul writes about that to, to-
Deborah: Right.
Jim: … to finish the race strongly, to rise up to the right standards.
Deborah: And when you… Whenever you can, encourage rather than criticize. And I think that is just so critical because it impacts other people’s progress. When… And, and when you read the story of Miriam in the Bible where they criticize Moses and then, uh, God struck her with leprosy, the whole place came to a standstill. They couldn’t move, nobody could move forward. And I say that’s a lesson there because when you are critical like that, it, it really impedes other people’s progress.
Jim: Right.
Deborah: And so one of the things we can do, and in the book I talk about the fact that not only should you refrain from these 30 negative uses, but find 30 ways to, uh, be more positive. Encourage somebody to say, “Yes, you can do this.” I… Let me tell you a story. I have a friend who lives… whose husband is very mean, uh, and I called her one day and I said, “I just want to tell you that your merchandise is good.” I, I was studying Proverbs 31 and I said, “She perceives that her merchandise is good.” I want to let you know that you have good merchandise. And she said she kept that message on her phone for like forever almost-
Jim: That’s amazing.
Deborah: … ’cause she wanted to hear that.
Jim: Just that little bit of encouragement.
Deborah: Validation. Yeah.
John: Yeah.
Jim: How… What kind of trigger do you use? And, a- and I guess for temperament reasons, you know, you have a more negative temperament to a more positive temperament. So the, the more positive person, it’s gonna come more naturally.
Deborah: Yeah.
Jim: So speak to both of that. How… What kind of trigger do you use to say, “Oop, I’m gonna bite my tongue. I’m not gonna say that negative thing I thought of.” And you’re doing this in milliseconds-
Deborah: Yes.
Jim: … and you’re gonna say something positive and encouraging.
Deborah: Right.
Jim: What, what trigger do you use to make sure you-
Deborah: Well, here’s my trigger. The Holy Spirit will often tell you, “Don’t say that.” You know, He’s just… It’s like a caution light. He’s like, “Okay, you need to stop talking, you’re about to mess up.” And then sometimes, and I have to tell you, I don’t always… I… Sometimes I run the light. I violate it (laughs), especially if somebody’s not doing a great job and I hate this because I’m thinking that’s not brain surgery and I’ve actually said that, but I didn’t know what a negative impact that had on somebody, to one of my former employees, uh, he, he lied about his qualifications and he couldn’t do the job. And I looked at it one day and I said, “That’s not brain surgery. How hard is that?” Well, that’s like saying, “Idiot-”
Jim: That’s a cutting or mark. Yeah.
Deborah: Yeah, and I did realize that.
Jim: But I could be right with you.
Deborah: But it, it, it wiped him out. I didn’t know that.
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: I’m thinking, “Well, you shouldn’t have lied about the job. The least I’m gonna do is give you a tongue lashing. (laughs) You shouldn’t have lied about it.”
Jim: You know, I think a lot of people are gonna say, “That was reasonable, Deborah.
Deborah: No that wasn’t though.
Jim: “… why are you beating yourself up?”
Deborah: Yeah.
Jim: I know, but some people will say-
Deborah: Yeah.
John: Yeah.
Jim: … so how do we need to interpret that it wasn’t? ‘Cause I… There’s a logic to that too.
Deborah: The tone, the put down. When you say, “Everybody knows that.” What are you saying? Except you, idiot.
Jim: Okay, so let’s back the tape up.
Deborah: Let’s back the tape up.
Jim: Play that forward how it should have been done.
Deborah: And I said, “Okay, he, he didn’t post the receivables right,” when I was working as a CFO at this place. And I said, “Now I, you know, I shouldn’t have said, ‘How hard is that?’ I’m gonna say, ‘What aspect of this did you find confusing?'” Because I could use that as a teaching moment-
Jim: Right.
Deborah: … rather than a moment to beat him up.
Jim: And you don’t add this, it obviously confused you.
Deborah: Right, right.
Jim: (laughing)
Deborah: Yeah. Right. Yeah, you say, “What part of this do I need to… did I not make clear?
Jim: That is so good though.
Deborah: “… or what part do you need more clarity?” I could ask that question if I’d stop… if I thought about it and prayed about it before I said it, but sometimes you’re so frustrated when you’re so goal oriented. And that’s why when you are a high achiever, you have to watch your tongue more-
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: … probably than anybody else.
Jim: Well, and you think about that, the immediate response is, wouldn’t this be a better world? But think of this, wouldn’t it be a better church-
Deborah: Yes.
Jim: … if we had these principles down. Talk about the retaliating tongue, because that, that’s one we need to cover here at the very end-
Deborah: Yes.
Jim: … because that’s… It’s so easy to fall into that spot.
Deborah: And especially in marriage because-
Jim: (laughs)
Deborah: … to retaliate means to return the punishment.
Jim: So you’re keeping score?
Deborah: Yeah, you’re keeping score and you… And if he says something, I’m gonna say something. Why do you need to return the punishment rather than seeking first to understand?
Jim: So I will win, Deborah. (laughs)
Deborah: W- w- well, have you won?
Jim: No, in the end, you lose everything.
Deborah: Right. You lose. You lose because words never die.
Jim: Right.
Deborah: And that’s what we have to remember. Words never die. They’re gonna last like… They’re gonna be like shrapnel in that person’s brain. So you don’t need to return the punishment, you need to seek first to understand. Why don’t you turn that into an opportunity to say, “Could you explain more what you mean by that?” And even if it was mean, the person said something that was mean, you need to say, “You know, your tone really hurt me.”
Jim: Yeah.
Deborah: It’s okay to be vulnerable and to say that, that… “Those words really hurt me, and I r- really wish you would think about it next time.”
Jim: I- if you think about this, what’s so good is this applies to every area of your life.
Deborah: Every area.
John: In your relationship. Yeah.
Jim: In your marriage, in your parenting, in your work relationships, in your friendships. I mean, this is a secret to living a blessed life-
Deborah: Absolutely.
Jim: … and a good life.
Deborah: And words, words frame our, our relationships. So whether we’re at work, our words, you can encourage your boss and become one of his favorite people. (laughs)
Jim: Oh, you will. That’s for sure.
Deborah: You will. Try it. It works. I, I’ve done this. My husband, the other day, I said, uh, “You know what I like about you?” And he’s so used to me being positive for a reason, he said, “Uh-oh, is this a setup for you to ask me a question?”
Jim: (laughing) There’s a list coming, right? Saturday’s list is on its way.
Deborah: (laughs) He said, “I don’t know about you-”
Jim: Fix the door. We’re back to that, John.
John: Yeah, you can’t escape it.
Jim: Fix the door.
John: Just call somebody.
Deborah: Right, right.
Jim: Deborah, this has been so good. Uh, what’s the end of that story?
Deborah: Well, I wasn’t about to give him a list. I had just heard about a guy who was not as, s- s- uh, sensitive to his wife’s needs as mine. And I, and, and I wanted to tell him that, that… I was so appreciate the fact that he was.
Jim: Good.
Deborah: But he thought I was setting him up-
Jim: Yes.
Deborah: … to ask himself.
Jim: Every man will. (laughs)
Deborah: (laughs) ‘Cause it was Saturday.
Jim: But that is good.
John: But it was a true compliment.
Deborah: It was a true compliment and, and he liked it later, but he said, “Oh, I thought that was a setup so that you could ask me to do something.” (laughs)
John: What a fun conversation with Deborah Pegues on today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And I’m sure if you’re like me, there’s been a little bit of conviction along with her message.
Jim: You know, every time Deborah is with us, she brings such good biblical insight and wisdom and practicality and smiles.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I mean, she… It’s just beaming from her. That’s why she’s one of our most popular guests. And, you know, here at Focus on the Family, we want to equip you in your faith walk so that you can be a better husband and wife, uh, a better dad or mom. We’re here with answers to those questions that you have and hopefully, solutions to those struggles that you’re in. We also have great resources available to you, like Deborah’s book, 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue. That’s pretty good transaction, don’t you think?
John: Uh, it’s a good 30 days.
Jim: 30 days, that tongue will come under better behavior. In fact, when you make a monthly pledge to the Ministry of Focus on the Family today of any amount, we’ll send you a copy of Deborah’s book as our way of saying thank you for joining the ministry. And if you can’t commit to a monthly amount, we understand. Uh, if you can send a one-time gift, we’ll do the same. Your continued prayer and financial support allows us to provide much needed help to individuals and families, and we couldn’t do this ministry without you. We’re in it together.
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Join us today, uh, donate and get your copy of 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459 or online at FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: You know, John, before we wrap up, let me remind everybody, Focus on the Family has a beautiful campus right here in Colorado Springs. And as you’re mapping out your summer vacation, let me invite you to stop by. We have a wonderful, uh, welcome center with, uh, Whit’s End Soda Shoppe, which is a great break for the summer. You can browse our big bookstore and even take a behind the scenes tour and learn more about Focus on the Family. Plus, kids, we have something called Kids Radio and they can do a little CD with Adventures in Odyssey scripts in there and we put their voices into that. It’s a great little excursion.
John: Yeah, years ago, I had a nephew do that, Jim, and-
Jim: (laughs)
John: … uh, he listened pretty much the whole 12-hour drive home to that CD of-
Jim: Over and over.
John: … him in Odyssey. It’s a great hit. And in addition to the CD, you’re also going to get an MP3 of the audio. So visit us is the point and, uh, give us a call if you have questions. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
