Pre-Show Segment:
Speaker 1: I still remember the day that I got the crushing news that my mother had been diagnosed with cancer, and I was in a fog the rest of that day.
Speaker 2: When my dad passed away, it went so quickly, we didn’t really have time to process it. Um, he, he just passed away and we wish we had more time with him.
Speaker 3: I remember visiting my grandpa and knowing when we left that it was gonna be the last time that I ever saw him, and that was a really hard moment for me and for him.
Speaker 4: When my wife died, we all experienced God’s peace that passes understanding. I’ve gained such a unique understanding of God’s presence in the midst of pain through all of this.
End of Pre-Show Segment
John Fuller: Those are heartfelt reflections about the loss of a beloved family member or friend. And, uh, when someone you love is facing a terminal illness, that pain may be even greater because of the waiting, the uncertainty, and the what ifs that tend to kind of crowd your mind. Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we’re gonna be exploring how to navigate a terminal diagnosis within your family and all of the challenges associated with that. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: John, this is one of those topics, uh, we really don’t wanna talk about. Death is uncomfortable and we kinda have this perpetual sense that we’re gonna live forever. But guess what? None of us will. And, uh, not in this life. As Christians, we believe we have eternal life with Jesus in heaven. That’s a great thing. That’s what we call the good news, right? But we still have to go through the process of living this life and dying, and then of course being with God in heaven. And, uh, there are ways to process this. It’s difficult.
And we’re gonna talk about it today, hopefully to help you cope with aging parents and that moment when they get a diagnosis. And then what are those things you can do, uh, to process your grief, to make sure your loved one is as comfortable as possible, and then to talk about all of that with your kids. And it’s gonna be emotional.
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah. We’re gonna have hope for those who are on the journey in preparation for those who have not yet but will experience some of this. Uh, Jen Babakhan is back with us today. She’s an author, literary agent and mom of two. She’s married to Ed. They live near Modesto, California. And the basis for our conversation is a terrific book that Jen has written. It is so full of wisdom. It’s called Disrupted: Finding Peace with a Parent’s Terminal Illness.
Jim: Jen, welcome back to Focus.
Jen Babakhan: Thank you so much. I’m so glad to be here.
Jim: Yeah. What a… It is a difficult topic though. I mean, I’m reading the prep this morning, sitting in my comfy chair at home about 6:00 and talking to Jean a bit about this. And she lost her mom and dad over the last, uh, 10, 15 years. Of course, I lost my parents years ago. I was a, a boy when they both died. And I, you know, I just… Watching Jean as an older woman having to go through that, we have a number of friends right now who are going through that. If you’re in your typically 50s and 60s, this is something you’re gonna experience with your parents in their 80s. And it, it just seems like an odd moment in life when your kids are on their way and then all of a sudden, you go from raising the kids feeling like empty nest is right around the corner.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: (laughs) And then boom, your parents are needing help. And some couples are in that pinch right now.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: So in that regard, uh, that’s the topic we’re gonna talk about. But I wanna get the description of your mom. Everybody loves their mom.
Jen: Right.
Jim: What was your mom like?
Jen: Oh my goodness. Thank you for asking. Um, she was the most, uh, joy-filled person that had such a great sense of humor.
Jim: (laughs) Yeah.
Jen: Um-
Jim: We had the same mom. (laughs)
Jen: … she… Yeah, that’s right. She loved to laugh. She loved to smile. She was loving. Um, she had a heart for those that, um, didn’t have all the things that they needed. And so my mom, um, would sometimes, um, cook and take it to homeless shelters and-
Jim: Mm.
Jen: … um, had just a real heart for hungry children as well. Um, she just loved. She loved and she loved the Lord and she stayed present and was really there for those that needed her.
Jim: That’s so good. Uh, there comes that day-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … that many people will experience, and that is when you get a phone call.
Jen: Right.
Jim: And it’s the doctor’s diagnosis of a terminal illness.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: How did that day change everything for you? And how did you process it?
Jen: Yeah. You know, that day came out of nowhere. So I knew that my mom had been having some issues with high blood pressure and some back pain. Um, and the morning that I received the news was a morning like any other, waking up at home with, um, with my kids. And I saw that I had a missed phone call from my dad. Um, and it came in at five o’clock in the morning. Um, so I called him back and that’s when he said, “They think they found cancer in your mom’s liver and her lungs.”
Jim: Mm.
Jen: Uh, and I just thought, “What are you, you know, even talking about? How can this even be?” We had just lost my father-in-law to cancer the year before. Um, and so it was just, it was a real shock. And, and that was the moment where I just knew this is gonna be a bumpy ride. Yeah.
Jim: And in fact, in that diagnosis, they, they gave her just weeks, right?
Jen: Right. And we didn’t know that until, you know, I’d made my way down to the hospital and, uh, my husband had come home to be with the kids so I could get down there. Um, and once they had done all of the tests and CT scans and all of that, they said that it was, uh, stage four. And, uh, and she said she’s got about six to eight weeks.
Jim: Wow.
Jen: And so-
Jim: Just that straightforward.
Jen: Yeah. And to go from-
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: … my mom’s healthy, vibrant woman to we have a month and a half left with her was really just jarring and, and shocking. And, um, it was just, it’s something that you don’t really process in that moment. You just kind of sit there in, in shock. Um, now that diagnosis, uh, was correct, but her time span ended up being, um, much longer than that. She lived for nearly another three years-
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: … after that diagnosis. Um, thank God.
Jim: Which is incredible.
Jen: Yes.
Jim: What a blessing that was.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: When you’re in that moment though, it has to change your perspective on everything.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Um, you know, you gave such a beautiful description of your mom and her, her good attributes.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But, you know, mother-daughter, mother-son relationships can be strained growing up-
Jen: Right.
Jim: … for all kinds of reasons. How did that diagnosis change that perspective? And now all you wanna do, I’m sure, is talk about the good things, love on her, her love on you.
Jen: Right. Right.
Jim: What did it look like for you?
Jen: Yeah. You know, just like any other mother-daughter relationship, it was complex. And through especially the teenage years, you know, there was a lot of push and pull there. But in that moment when I knew, um, that our time was limited. And you know, as a child of any parent, you know that eventually you’re going to lose your parents, that’s a fact of life. But when that timeframe becomes so imminent, you suddenly have this perspective of none of the things that you thought matter matter. They don’t matter anymore.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Jen: Um, the main things that remain are love and that relationship and just all of that that you’ve built with your parent. And so it really, for me, um, just boiled it all down to my love for my mom and any disagreements or arguments or, uh, differences in opinion we’d had in the past, that completely faded away. And yeah.
Jim: There’s so many things in that. I’m thinking of families that struggle concentrating on what they’re losing-
Jen: Mm.
Jim: … in the death of a parent or grandparent-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … something like that, as opposed to what we’ve had.
Jen: Right.
Jim: You know, kind of the sense of blessing having this person in our lives-
Jen: Yes.
Jim: … for all of our lives to they’re not gonna be there anymore.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And I guess that fear and that unknown can grip us as the surviving family member. How do we practically concentrate on the good things in the middle of bad things?
Jen: Right. Absolutely. There’s that tendency, especially with a terminal diagnosis, to just focus on the end. But what I found really helpful was focusing on the life that my mom was still living. So, you know, death is going to happen. We know that, but that’s not where God wants our focus to be, I don’t feel. Um, and so for me, it was really this practice of staying in the moment. Um, you know, whatever time she had left, we were going to make the most of it and focus on that, focus on being with her, sharing how much we loved her in that time, um, and, and continuing to try to live as normally as we possibly could, you know, because living in that space of doom and gloom is not good for anyone.
Jim: You know, the… Thinking about that, I mean, that intensity of the initial diagnosis-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … being six to eight weeks.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And then she lived almost, almost-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … another three years.
Jen: Right.
Jim: That had to be… I mean, the first thing is we’ve gotta make every moment count here in this first six to eight weeks because she may not be with us-
Jen: Right.
Jim: … according to the doctor.
Jen: Yes.
Jim: So you live like that-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … with that intensity for those weeks.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And then treatments begin-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and things look a little better that it will prolong her life or his life. How did you manage just that aspect of it that you’re kind of on that, on death’s cliff-
Jen: Right.
Jim: … with her.
Jen: Right.
Jim: And it’s going longer than you anticipated, than she anticipated. And I mean, every moment, you wouldn’t come back and say, “How are you today, Mom?”
Jen: Right.
Jim: “What are you feeling like, Mom?” Right?
Jen: Right.
Jim: That intensity factor.
Jen: Yeah.
Jim: How did you and the family manage that?
Jen: You know, it’s living in that space of uncertainty. So anyone that has had someone with a serious illness in their life knows, uh, they call it scanxiety, right? That anx-
Jim: Scanxiety. Yeah.
Jen: Yeah. That anxiety that comes every time that you’ve got a scan coming up or you’re going to get news from the doctor, a blood test, whatever it is. And so we did our very best to live in the moment in those in between times, but I’m not going to lie. On those days where there, it was a scan day, my brother and I would text one another in the morning and just say, “How are you doing? How are you hanging in?”
Jim: Mm. Yeah.
Jen: Um, but yes, for that period of time when the treatments were working and we were just kind of living in these, you know, two to three month increments, you know, waiting to see what the next news would hold, it really helped us just stay focused on right now the news is good and we’re gonna focus on the good news that we have right now.
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: Um, because life is lived in moments. We cannot borrow time for the future. Um, you know, Jesus said what, worry does not benefit you at all. It doesn’t put extra hours onto your life. And so when we stay in this moment that we have and focus on the good that we have here, it shifts your perspective and, and brings peace.
Jim: Oh, without a doubt.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Your boys were pretty young when your mom was diagnosed. And, uh, what were their ages at the time?
Jen: Um, three and five.
Jim: What was their relationship like with grandma?
Jen: Oh, they, they had-
Jim: (laughs) It had to be good.
Jen: … a mutual love for one another. My mom was the silly grandma that would have balloon races with them through the living room and, um, would get on the swings with them in the backyard. And, uh, they just delighted in one another. And my mom, um, was just, um, the picture-perfect grandma when it came to that sort of thing. So, uh, so yeah, that was a, a difficult, maybe one of the most difficult aspects of this journey.
Jim: How did you, you find that spot to try to help them begin to-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … process this? I mean, it has to be age appropriate.
Jen: Right.
Jim: I just remember as a nine-year-old, they really cut me off from information.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And 9, 10 years old, your cognitive abilities are pretty strong.
Jen: Right.
Jim: You’re on your way.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Um, people will say that your moral compass is pretty well formed by 10, 11 years old.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: So the point being there, I was right on that cusp to kinda understand things-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … with a little older understanding, but I just didn’t get information. I went to bed one night, woke up the next day and my brother told me my mom had died.
Jen: Mm.
Jim: It was just too much of a jolt.
Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jim: So one of the things I talk to people about is do inform your children-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … age appropriately. Let them know something’s happening so that it’s not such a big event.
Jen: Right.
Jim: I mean, it’s still gonna be a change-
Jen: Yeah.
Jim: … and a big change. But if you know someone’s sick, they’re not doing well-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and what happens when you die-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … tho- those kind of proper things. How did, how did you manage it?
Jen: So I was very honest with them, um, as was appropriate for their age level. So when she was diagnosed, I, I told both of them, “Grandma is sick. The doctors are going to, um, try to give her medication that will help her feel better.” And that then led to-
Jim: Yeah, that’s good.
Jen: … the questions from them, you know, “What if she doesn’t get better? Will she die?” And I said, “She will. She will go and be with Jesus, but we are going to make the best of our time that we have with her, and the doctors are going to, um, do what it takes to, uh, help her to feel better now.” And so, I thought that was really important that they understood the gravity of the situation, um, for sure. And of course, the physical changes that come with chemotherapy and all of that, you know, once she was losing her hair, I wanted them to have some kind of foundation for that, that it didn’t just come out of left field, that this was the medication that was helping her to feel better. Um, I never used the term get better because in a terminal diagnosis, we know that that’s, you know, not likely, though God does work miracles.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jen: Um, but I wanted them to know that, um, that the goal here was that she would feel as good as she could for as long as she could.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
John: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guest today is Jen Babakhan. And, uh, we’re talking about the book, uh, that she’s written capturing her experiences and biblical insights. It’s called Disrupted: Finding Peace with a Parent’s Terminal Illness. We’re kind of broadening this out to a beloved family member’s illness as well. So much good takeaway here. Get a copy of the book from us at the ministry. Our website is focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
And Jen, um, one of the things I really appreciated kind of tying into the kids, but also just it helped me, was to be thinking about heaven, anticipating-
Jen: Mm.
John: … hopefully heaven.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
John: So you’re dealing with the here and now, but you shared some pretty good insights and a great story about a grandmother who actually celebrated something that most of us wouldn’t think about celebrating.
Jen: Yes. So for me, when I was writing this book, it was really important that I didn’t just solely focus on my experience because there are so many different ways to lose a parent to illness. Um, moms, dads, I, I wanted to cover it all. And so one of the women that I interviewed, Jamie, she, um, told the story of her mother that, um, when she was diagnosed with a terminal illness, when her grandchildren came over, the first thing she said was, “This is what we all look forward to when we start believing in Jesus.” And just told them, “I am going to have a change of address. I’m going to be moving.” So Jamie said it just changed her, her children’s perspective into, um, knowing that their grandmother was leaving for somewhere better and that one day they would join her there. And so I, I loved that story.
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jim: You know, Jen, things are tight in families if they’re healthy.
Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jim: And it’s completely natural to feel like, “God, where are you in this?”
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You know, because you selfishly, if I could say it that way-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and understandably, want more time-
Jen: Yeah.
Jim: … with your mom or dad. Um, so when these things, when you hit these situations, inevitably, you gotta get to that question of, “Lord, where are you in this?”
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And I love that, the description-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … of heaven and how she handled it-
Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jim: … that grandmother. But how do you f… On the one hand, how do you process that, the answer to that question?
Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jim: And then how do you help your children process that with the death of their grandparent?
Jen: Right. So for me, you know, I remember when she was first diagnosed and I was sitting in that, um, hospital room thinking, “I just wanted Jesus to come in with a clipboard and give us the full explanation. What was the reasoning behind this?”
Jim: Or just heal her.
Jen: I, or just heal her.
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: I just, I wanted, I wanted Him there in a tangible way. And He was there. He was very much there. Um, and, and there was never a time in the deepest, um, parts of my grief where I didn’t eventually feel that He was with me through it all. Um, it also was one of those things where, for the kids, I, I told them, you know, the Bible says that we have a set number of days, that our days are numbered, um, before we are born. And that was something that really helped-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Jen: … um, helped me to think about, okay, this was unexpected, um, on our side of things. This was not unexpected on the heavenly side of things. God knew how long He had orchestrated for her to live. And we ended up being blessed with more time. And so that’s the other thing that when someone’s given this very short period of time to live and then they outlive that, every day, every month, every week feels like a gift. It feels like a gift. And so when you can look at it from that perspective of what an extravagant blessing to have this extra time with my mom that I didn’t think we’d get to have, um, that is very helpful. And I still look back on that time and think what a gift it was to have that.
Jim: You know, in so many ways, that crystallizing of that moment, I mean, it’s unfortunate that we don’t think of that as believers-
Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jim: … particularly from every day forward after we accept Christ.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: That every day is a gift.
Jen: Yes.
Jim: And to make the most of that day for the kingdom, right?
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And to live in such a way that brings people that sense of amazement about God and His Creation and everything. And, and we just get overtaken-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … by the human life, right? The regular stuff of the day. And we don’t live in that way, except-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … I think we touch it when a loved one is diagnosed like this and all of a sudden, the intensity is so much stronger. You went to a, uh, cancer survivor-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … party with your mom.
Jen: Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.
Jim: It was just such a highlight of the book.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Describe what happened there.
Jen: So mom had called me and said that one of her nurses had told her about an event that was being held at a local church for, um, cancer survivors. And she asked if I would want to go. And, um, and I thought, “Okay, yeah, let’s go.” And so when we got there, and I didn’t know what to expect, you know, my, in my mind, I thought this is going to be kind of a depressing event or, you know, there’s gonna be so many sick people here and, you know, what will this look like? When we arrived, it was the most buoyant, joyful event. There-
Jim: Did that surprise you?
Jen: It did. It, it-
Jim: Yeah. It doesn’t seem to go- (laughs)
Jen: It did. I, I just, I looked at all of these women, and they all had these, um, pink or purple boas on, and they were just, you know, talking with one another and hugging each other. And so when we got out of the car, um, they welcomed my mom and hugged her. And, um, and, you know, my mom said she was there for the event. And once they realized that she had cancer, they said, “Well, you’re in the parade.” And of course, my mom looked at me-
Jim: (laughs)
Jen: … and I thought, “Oh, we’re, you’re in the parade, mom.”
Jim: Yeah. (laughs)
Jen: Um, it was in, it was held in a church, and my mom was the survivor for the shortest time. She had been diagnosed two weeks, and we were at this event.
Jim: Wow.
Jen: So she was at the front. She was the first person leading this parade, and she held a sign that said, “Survivor, two weeks.” And the, the line of women that all had their signs and the pride and the joy.
Jim: Mm.
Jen: Um, and I think that was the moment where I realized how important community is to those that have… Well, for all of us, but especially for those that have been given such a life-altering illness. Um, but also that there’s still joy to be found in these moments. I mean, we, at, at two weeks out, we still thought she had a very limited time. And so it was difficult to see her in that line. That was not something I ever wanted to see.
Jim: Mm.
Jen: But to see the joy on her face and the hope, I think that was the main thing is that it gave her such hope to see these women holding signs that said 15 years, 20 years, whatever. And there she was at the front with two weeks. And, um, I was just so, so proud of her. Um, I say in the book that those women that enveloped her, uh, were really, it felt like they were being Jesus with a feather boa.
Jim: Yeah. (laughs)
Jen: They just, they just, uh, were, were so lovely.
Jim: You know, in the book, you also talked about something that becomes a, a habit, I would suggest. I haven’t had the need to go through this in the same way you did.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But it’s, this could be our last Thanksgiving. This could be our last Christmas. I mean, the fact that your mom went from six to eight weeks-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … to almost three years, you did that. You-
Jen: Yes.
Jim: … this could be the last Christmas.
Jen: Every time. (laughs)
Jim: And h- how do you manage that, you know? Do you do things differently and special? Is, you know, if this is gonna be the end, it’s gonna be a party.
Jen: Right, right.
Jim: And let’s do it well for mom.
Jen: Y- yeah.
Jim: And yeah, so where did that go?
Jen: Well, those holidays were fabulous every time, I think, because we did go into it with that mindset of this could be the last. But I think, um, we didn’t do anything differently necessarily. I think we took more pictures. Um, we, we made more of an effort to get those pictures in that we knew we would want one day.
Jim: Was your mom okay with that?
Jen: Um-
Jim: The fuss of that?
Jen: Um, oh, of course. I mean, she, you know, she-
Jim: She got it.
Jen: She got it.
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: And she also recognized that it could very well be the last. But, you know, in that, I think that’s true for any of us. Any of these holidays could be our last. And we don’t live that way. Um, but it’s a gift to live with that perspective because then you are in the moment, you’re celebrating, and you’re cherishing the people that you have around you whenever you have them there, because there’s no guarantee whether you’ve got a diagnosis or not.
Jim: Yeah. Let, let’s come back next time and continue this discussion. But where I wanna end is probably a place where people are wondering about your dad-
Jen: Mm.
Jim: … who has survived your mom-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and he’s still alive.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Speak to that dynamic as the daughter.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You have a brother.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But just as the daughter, how did you help him manage the loss of his wife?
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I mean, that brings tears to my eyes.
Jen: Yeah.
Jim: I remember when Jean’s dad died.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I mean, every night for 53 years, they went to bed together.
Jen: Right.
Jim: And then this one night, boom, he’s not there. I just thought of the loneliness of that.
Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So for me as a daughter, and the oldest daughter, right, um, I felt this responsibility to make certain that, that he was going to be okay, and that I would do what I had to do to make sure that, that he had what he needed. And at the same time, knowing that I couldn’t stop his pain. I couldn’t take the grief away. I was grieving my mother, but he was grieving his partner of 40 years.
Jim: Mm.
Jen: Um, so we talk on the phone and visit and, and all of that all of the time. And, and yeah, I just think that, that period of time after the loss when your family’s finding your footing again, without such a huge part of it, my mom was the heartbeat of our family. And to lose that, um, really threw us all off our feet for a bit. And I think that was uncertainty in a new way. You know, during her illness, it was that kind of uncertainty. But after she died, it was, what does this look like now? How do we piece this back together as best as we can?
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: Um, and God really kind of led us through that. And so what that looks like is, um, you know, just including him as much as we can and visiting him all the time and him coming over all of the time and, and just realizing that, um, that it’s not ever gonna be the same, but it doesn’t mean that, um, that it can’t be good still.
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: And, and we cherish the time that we have with him now even more.
Jim: Yeah. Well, yeah.
Jen: Yeah.
Jim: It’s the, the learned moment.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Let’s cherish every day together.
Jen: Right.
Jim: Jen, again, this has been so good. Thanks for your vulnerability and your expression of this. Like I started with the program, John, I mean this is a touchy subject. We don’t talk about this because it’s very uncomfortable.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: We don’t wanna talk about death, even as Christians. And I, you know, what I’m gleaning there, Jen, is being able to go into this like your mom demonstrated with joy.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I mean, we know, we talk about the fact that we know where we’re headed.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And then we don’t really demonstrate that with all the normal things of fear and, and that.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But let’s go into that with a joyful attitude-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … an expectant attitude. And I wanna come back next time, talk about that grief process a bit more, things we can do to prepare for that maybe as the one diagnosed.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Um, and if we can do that, I think it’ll be very helpful for everyone listening. Thanks.
Jen: Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
Jim: And this is a great book, uh, Disrupted: Finding Peace with a Parent’s Terminal Illness. This is something you don’t typically look for, (laughs) but it’s a great resource to have in your arsenal with your parents still alive and that being right around the corner. And like I said, many of my friends are dealing with this. And I think this is, uh, a topic that you do need to be ready for as best as you can. It won’t prepare you for everything, but it will help you through that grief process. Get ahold of us to get a copy. Send a gift of any amount to Focus on the Family and join our support team. This is a great opportunity to do ministry through your giving, and we’ll say thank you by sending you a copy of Jen’s book.
And maybe you’re going through some kind of loss right now and your pain seems unbearable. Let us be there for you. We have caring Christian counselors who can pray with you, encourage you, and offer you effective Bible-based help for whatever you’re going through.
John: Yeah, and we should mention the Remembering the Hope of Heaven audio collection that we’ve put together. It’s a collection of great, powerful messages that will inspire your faith and it’s free.
Jim: That’s right, John. And we’ve got programs from John Burke sharing amazing stories of people who’ve had near-death experiences and saw visions of heaven. Really interesting. Lee Strobel and Randy Alcorn described the hope we have about spending eternity with God and how that hope can shape our lives today. This is really good content, and I highly recommend you get this collection today.
John: Yeah, learn more about Remembering the Hope of Heaven, the audio collection, and Jen’s book, Disrupted, when you stop by our website. That’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast, or give us a call, 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.
And thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back for more of Jen Babakhan’s remarkable story next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
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Part 2:
Teaser:
Jen Babakhan: But when that timeframe becomes so imminent, you suddenly have this perspective of none of the things that you thought matter matter. They, they, they don’t matter anymore.
End of Teaser
John Fuller: That’s Jen Babakhan, and she’s describing some unique perspectives there about priorities and, uh, what to do when someone you love has a terminal illness. Uh, Jen is back with us again today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller and thank you for joining us.
Jim Daly: John, we had a powerful conversation last time with Jen, and a topic that, you know, we do, I think we’ve done 4,000 programs-
John: Mm-hmm. We have.
Jim: … right around there. We don’t do any of these (laughs) when we talk about, uh, you know, when a loved one is on the brink of death, wh- how do we process that? What’s our grief process? How do we approach it, uh, as believers in Jesus? And then how do we communicate that to our children or grandchildren-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … whatever it might be? Excellent content for all of us to think about and prepare for. It’s a good thing. And hopefully we as Christians do it differently than the world. I, my heart breaks for the world, if you think about it, where they don’t have a framework for what to believe in-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … that this is it. I mean, that’s got to feel very empty and a good reason for us to pray for an unbelieving world that they might embrace Christ.
You know, in John 11:25-26, it says, “Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live. And everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die.” That’s our hope and our trust.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And that gives us the bedrock for our discussion today.
John: Yeah. And, uh, we have so many resources here to help you, um, with, uh, this kind of a journey, call us, uh, 800-A-FAMILY to schedule a time with one of our counselors. Um, we’d be happy to offer a free over-the-phone consultation with you.
Our guest, as I said, is Jen Babakhan, and, uh, she is an author and a speaker, and she’s written, uh, her own personal journey through this kind of a loss. And she offers great insight in the book, Disrupted: Finding Peace with a Parent’s Terminal Illness. And you can learn more about Jen and, uh, her various, uh, activities and resources and this great book on our website.
Jim: Jen, welcome back.
Jen: Thank you so much. Happy to be here.
Jim: Yeah. It’s, you know, it’s good. It is a good thing to talk about. It’s a difficult thing to talk about, but we as Christians should not shrink back from talking about difficult things, right? That’s part of the journey of life. You know, so often we think as Christians that being on the mountaintop is the goal, especially in the West, we’re so goal-oriented that, you know, if we just remove all the discomfort of life, then we’re blessed and we can stay on the mountaintop. But my experience has been, you want a taste of the Lord-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … go to the valley.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: That’s where you’re gonna find Him in, in fullness. And it’s in our brokenness that we feel the closest to Him, I believe. Even that scripture that says He’s close to the brokenhearted and saves those crushed in spirit. So when you enter into an event like the death of a spouse or death-
Jen: Mm.
Jim: … of a parent or grandparent, that is a broken place. I mean, it, it puts everything right in front of you.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: The things you didn’t say, the things you wish you said, the fight that you had with that loved one, and you regret having it. And you could start to recriminate all of that and get into a bad place.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Your mom was diagnosed initially with terminal cancer with six to eight weeks to live. We covered that last time. And if you missed it, go back and listen to it, get the app or do what you can-
John: Yeah.
Jim: … because it was well worth to listen to. But in that context, she ended up living almost three years. And in anticipating that, you described in the book living many little deaths.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Describe that.
Jen: Yeah. So, you know, I think that for my family, once that kind of bomb drops, um, along the way, you, you already sort of start losing things. So while your parent is still living, you lose a sense of normalcy, um, in the sense that, you know, um, your parent is now undergoing treatment, or you just aren’t viewing life the same way anymore.
Um, you know, it’s impacting your daily life. I remember with my boys, I would be, you know, absent-mindedly making lunch or dinner or whatever and, um, because my mind was on my mom and what was coming up. And so there’s that death of normalcy.
Um, you know, my parents, my father had retired. They were both retired at the time, uh, just recently. And so we always envisioned for them a time of traveling and, and joy and fun and all of that. And instead, they were tied down to weekly chemotherapy and radiation treatments.
Um, and so, you know, those sorts of deaths along the way just kind of remind you that, um, that there is loss and there is grief in this process before your loved one actually passes. And I don’t know if that’s something that, um, people that haven’t experienced this, um, understand very well. But for those families that are walking through it, that journey along the way, even if their, you know, parent is going through successful treatment, it’s a sacrifice and it’s a change for everyone.
Jim: Oh, it, it definitely is.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You also mentioned in the book about finding peace. You know, sometimes this can be a frustrating pursuit.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And you can tell the difference. I mean, that’s something that I would say, not just in the case of losing a parent-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … uh, or a parent with terminal illness, but every aspect of life. And, you know, I think learning those lessons as a boy in some ways that I was blessed to have learned-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … I find it when I’m talking to somebody about the peace of God, you can see the frustration for them, that it’s not within reach for them.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And there’s no way for me to construct a ladder.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: It’s about you and God. It’s not about-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … the person talking to you. All you know is that it’s a better place to be-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … when you can find the peace of God. You mentioned that in the context of Romans 12:18. Wh- what’s that verse? What did it mean to you? And how did you apply it to your mom?
Jen: Right. So, you know, Paul tells us, you know, “As far as it depends on you, live-”
Jim: There you go.
Jen: As pa- as, as-
Jim: That’s the latter part.
Jen: Yeah. “As far as it depends on you, live peaceably with everyone.”
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: And so for me, that was twofold. That was living at peace with my mom and really finding peace in our relationship and knowing that while it wasn’t perfect, it was ours and making the most of the time that we had left. And it was in those final years that I felt like I had the relationship with her that I had always dreamed that I would have.
And so finding that peace, both with your parent or your loved one, but then finding that peace with God, uh, sometimes finding that peace with God is the harder piece of the puzzle because He’s in charge of everything. So why is He allowing this to happen?
And I, I don’t have the perfect answer for that, but I think that as He is leading the ill person on their own journey back home to Him, He is using that to transform your own life and the lives of everyone that love that person. Because I know I can say that I am not who I was prior to her diagnosis.
Um, and I think my family would say the same, that this journey that we have walked together and with God, um, has been one of truth and of peace. And coming to that place of, of trust, that-
Jim: Mm.
Jen: … even in these darkest moments, He’s still going to bring good from it. It’s not going to feel good, but He’s going to bring good from it.
Jim: You know, a- another component, and we could spend a little time here, was this idea of, in essence, memorializing that person before they die.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And we had a great example here at Focus. Kurt Leander, who works on the team, came up with the idea of honoring Peb Jackson, who worked here-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … for many years. He went on to work for Young Life and then Rick Warren. But he, he really, uh, contributed to this ministry. And we used to refer to Dr. Dobson and Peb Jackson as brothers of a different mother.
John: (laughs)
Jim: They just connected well and-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and really complimented each other. And, and, uh, and so we threw him a 75th birthday party. He was already diagnosed-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … with, uh, cancer.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And we knew that timeline was ticking.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But we did that party. We had 500 people show up, uh, including Rick Warren and Denny Rydberg and m- many other Christians.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And it was just amazing to see-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … people love on him. And he felt it.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: He was surprised. He didn’t know ahead of time. He walked into the ballroom and just, wow. Now that’s a big party.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But you can do so many things in so many different ways to let your diagnosed, uh, loved one know that they are loved and appreciated before they pass away. Speak to that.
Jen: What we did for my mom, we did a couple of things. So we wanted my boys to have memory books of her voice and her reading stories to them. And so we recorded those and that was something that, um, that we cherish and, and we’re so glad that we did. Um, but one of the other things that we did, and this was right after her diagnosis, it was her, um, 64th birthday, um, we decided to get her a puppy.
Jim: Oh, (laughs) man.
Jen: And, and that was maybe something that people wouldn’t automatically assume would be what you would get someone that’s dying, but we knew that it would bring joy-
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: … into the scenario. And when we gave her that puppy in a, a birthday gift bag, we were at the beach. We were spending a lovely day on the beach. She had no idea what was happening. And so when she opened up that gift bag and saw this little two-pound ball of fluff, it, um …
Jim: Uh-huh.
Jen: I mean, it just was a moment that I’ll cherish forever.
Jim: Brightened her day.
Jen: And it did. It did. And, and that dog, of course, now is with my dad providing comfort and, um-
Jim: Mm.
Jen: … and joy. And it was just one of those times in life where holding that sorrow and that joy together at the same time, she was going to go get her chemotherapy port that next Monday, and this was a Saturday. And even in the midst of that-
Jim: Mm.
Jen: We were celebrating her birthday, celebrating her life, um, and laughing and experiencing joy. So I think the more you can do that with someone that’s in the midst of a hard time and provide opportunities for laughter, the better it is for everyone.
Jim: You know, e- expanding on that a little bit, a good friend of mine, Randy, who’s a donor to Focus as well. So Randy, if you’re listening, this is for you. But he mentioned to me that it’s wise to, you know, take your phone.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Do a video for your spouse.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Do a video for your kids. Do a video for each of your kids.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Do a video for each of your grandkids if you have grandchildren. And that, I haven’t done that yet-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … but I, I want to.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And I need to. I wanna put that away and park it in the cloud somewhere-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: So that once I’m gone, Trent can download that video for him and hear what I have to say for him. And, but thinking through that thing-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … uh, and thinking through that activity is really a good thing. Your children, your spouse, they’ll be blessed.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Think about it. You can recognize it and put your own touch to it. I’m sure mine would be humorous, but, um, you know, just such a touch and a, a piece of you goes-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … with that and a blessing to your family members.
Jen: Absolutely. My mom wrote each of us letters, and I have reread it, uh, during my most difficult times. Um, and one of the things she said is that “I will be waiting at the gates with arms wide open, um, when it’s your turn to come.” And I just think, as you said, the gift of having that is priceless. And for those of us that aren’t looking at a finite timeline, you know, in the next six to eight weeks, it’s still something that, that we should consider doing, um, because we don’t know when the end will be for us. It, it has meant so much to me and my brother and, um, and my dad as well to have those.
Jim: Well, and you keep coming back to that. But in so many ways, that becomes one of your most cherished possessions, right?
Jen: Oh, absolutely.
Jim: That would-
John: Mm.
Jim: Uh, you know, I can’t remember my mom’s voice-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … as an example.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I mean, I lost that memory years ago.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I just couldn’t remember her voice. And that bothers me.
Jen: Yeah.
Jim: You know? I remember the actions and the great-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … sense of humor she had-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … but can’t remember that voice. Going into hospice-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … uh, I’ve experienced that with Jean’s mom.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And it was hard.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And it is a, there’s a finality to it that really-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … takes your breath away.
Jen: Right.
Jim: You know, they’re in that bed or whatever situation they’re in. And, uh, it just seems like you know they’re not gonna get up from that bed. This is it.
Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jim: Whether it’s a week, a month, whatever-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … it ends up being. Describe hospice and what it connotated to you, what it meant to you.
Jen: Sure. So by the time mom had decided that she was not going to do any kind of therapy anymore, um, I think I, I knew internally that we were at that place, that she was tired. It was, um, she ended up with a heart condition that ordinarily they would operate on, but the doctor said with her being so far down the cancer path, it just wasn’t worth it.
And so hospice for me, um, was a difficult thing to swallow, but also one that I knew was inevitable. Um, and in a sense, because I had been dreading it for so long, it was a little bit of a relief, I think, for me to be-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Jen: … like, “Okay, we’re in this place now and we’re going to face it head on, whatever this looks like.” Um, and you know, the hospice nurses are angels. They are, uh-
Jim: They are.
Jen: … angels on earth. They are just wonderful. And, and they really helped us to make it as, um, as easy of a process as, as that kind of thing can be.
John: Well, our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly is Jen Babakhan. And, uh, she’s written a terrific book which captures her story and, uh, what you’re hearing now, these, uh, wisdom, uh, perspectives. It’s called Disrupted: Finding Peace with a Parent’s Terminal Illness. Uh, it’s a terrific resource. Get a copy from us here at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Uh, and Jen, I appreciate you’re, um, letting us into that room, uh, with hospice. That can be a short time or a long time. Uh, my mother-in-law lived with us, and she was on hospice for the last few months. Describe, um, that journey of, of holding on and then at some point, you have to let go. I, I think it’s probably different for everyone, but what was that like for you?
Jen: Yeah. You know, by the time we were in hospice, she was conscious some of the time, um, unconscious for some of the time as well. But there was a day that she regained full consciousness.
John: Mm.
Jen: And she looked at each of us, and I’ll never forget the look on her face. It was just pure peace.
Jim: Mm.
Jen: Just pure peace. And she went around and she looked at each and every single one of us in the eye and said, “I love you.” And we said, “We love you, you know, too.” And, and she said, “You have to let me go.”
John: Mm.
Jen: And it was in that moment where I realized she was holding on for us.
Jim: Mm.
Jen: And at the same time, you know, we told her, of course, uh, I remember telling her, “Mom, you can run to be with Jesus anytime you need to. You’re free to go.” But I think she knew in the back of her mind that we were all just so desperate to hold on for any time, uh, that we had left. And, um, it wasn’t until, um, I had… At this point, she was not conscious, but they say the last thing to go is hearing. And the hospice nurse had come and, and I had seen her suffering. You know, everyone asks, “Is it a peaceful death? Was it a peaceful death?” And I always say death is a lot like birth. It’s rarely peaceful.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Jen: Um, you know, it’s a, it’s a, a struggle and the body knows what it needs to do in both birth and death, and it does those things. But I asked the nurse, “How much longer do you think that she has?” And she said, “Well, it, it could be a week. It could be longer.” And, and I had just watched my mom just, her body just work so hard to keep her alive. And I said, “I sure hope for her sake it’s not that long.” I said, “I never thought I’d get to this point, but I, I sure hope it’s not.” And my mom died four hours later-
Jim: Wow.
Jen: With all of us around the bedside.
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: And I think, I truly believe that her hearing me say that, that I hoped it wasn’t that long, that she knew-
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: … I had come to that place of peace.
Jim: Right.
Jen: And that I had fully let her go. Because at the end of it, it’s just love. You just want what’s best for them. And that selfishness to hold on fades away because you know that, um, in some sense, they’re always going to be with you, but you don’t want them to stay if they’re in, in that situation.
Jim: Yeah. You speak about surrendering to grief. I wanted it to set in because I think some people go, “What?”
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: “I don’t surrender to nothing.”
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But surrendering to grief, why is that important?
Jen: Because it’s gonna have its way with you whether you let it or not. And, and that was the biggest lesson for me, I think, was to realize that it was going to do what it wanted to do, whether I provided it space or not.
Jim: Ah.
Jen: So, you know, those early days of grief of, um, just having those waves come over you and, and crying and all of that, that’s expected. Everyone expects that. But for me anyway, it was a year or two out, three years out, when it, a t- a trigger would happen, something would, um, spark a memory and I would just be laid out, just in tears, unable to pull myself together.
And I realized there’s really no other way to do the grief thing than just surrender and let it do what it needs to do. Because as much as we fight against it and think, “I’m just gonna handle it. I’m gonna handle it, and I’m gonna get through it, and it’s gonna be fine.” And you try to strong arm your way through it, that’s not actually doing the work that God intended grief to do within you.
I think grief is such a softening process where God, um, has us become so vulnerable. And it’s in that vulnerability that we can feel His strength, and we can feel His presence and that sense of peace. And I just don’t think there’s another way to get there.
Jim: Yeah. With people’s good intentions, we gotta hit this one because it, it happens, you know, and people say things to try to make you feel better and they actually have the exact opposite impact. What are some of those coaching tips you might give to another family member, a distant family member, or maybe just a friend who’s trying to help their friend go through something and you say things like, “It’ll be all right.”
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Or, you know, “Time will heal your wound.”
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Or whatever the cliche might be, what are the good things to say? And then what are those things you might not wanna say?
Jen: Right. So I think what’s really unfortunately common is that when someone tells someone else that their loved one has a diagnosis or whatever, they will either… I’ll start with the bad first. They will either say, um, that… They’ll tell you all of the people they know that have died of that condition, and I don’t know why, but it’s something that they do. They just-
Jim: Just a switch that goes.
Jen: They just wanna share that, “Oh, I know so-and-so, and they passed away from this.” Or they’ll tell you about the brand new, um, you know, natural treatment that they are absolutely sure will help heal your parent or your loved one, and they don’t really need what the doctor is saying they need or whatever. And they think that they’re being helpful. But on the other side of that, as the person that is loving someone that’s going through it, it just provides more stress and more strain. Those are things that we probably already know about. I know I researched every-
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: … natural treatment, every possible thing that would help my mom. Um, and so what I found to be the most helpful is just being there. And I found the most comfort from those who had walked this journey already themselves, because they knew, um, what it was like in those quiet moments when you, um, don’t have someone sitting with you and you’re just sitting at home going, “How is this going to go? And what is this going to look like?”
So I would just tell those that are kind of on the periphery that your presence is really all that’s needed. Or just a text to say that you’re thinking of them or that you’re praying for them. Because ultimately, hearing… For me, it’s always been hearing that someone has thought about me randomly and saying a prayer for me-
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: … or my mom or my family, that has meant the most, and I think is the most beneficial.
Jim: Yeah. And that’s a good thing. I normally will PS a letter to someone who’s lost a loved one to say words are inadequate.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: So I’m praying for simply God’s peace to be with you.
Jen: Yes.
Jim: It’s, it’s kind of the best that I can-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … suggest for them. Um, last time you mentioned your children, we kind of started in that area and your, your boys were six and three when your grandmother, when their grandmother-
Jen: Mm.
Jim: … your mom got that diagnosis. How old are they today and how have they continued to process that? And then how about you and your husband?
Jen: Yeah. So my boys are now 13 and 10, almost 11. Um, and I think it, they’ve processed it, um, as well as can be expected. And so we now talk about my mom all the time and laugh and talk about what she would say or what she would do. Um, and, and there’s those hard times too where, you know, especially for my younger son, um, he, he loves playing baseball and he just says, “Mom, I really wish grandma could have been at one of my games.”
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Jen: You know? And that’s the, that’s the hard thing that, that we just sit with and, “Yeah, that, that is hard. And, and I wish she was here too for that, you know?” Um, so they’ve done, they’ve done well in, in processing it. And, um, and my older son still has very vibrant memories of my mom, and so he, you know, talks about those often and how much fun they had together. So it really has been something that as a family, we, uh, we don’t shy away from talking about her-
Jim: Yeah.
Jen: … or what she would’ve loved or, um, what she would’ve found funny. Um, and there’s so much that she found funny. Um, and, and for my husband and I, the same thing. We, we talk about her all the time. And, um, I think it’s so important. My, my husband lost his father, so he understood, um, what it is to lose a parent. And so he has been such a delightful support in, um, in being there for me in all of the ways that I need him to be. So yeah, it’s only brought us closer.
Jim: No, that’s good. You mentioned this, but I do wanna come back to it and end here, because I think the scripture, we need that context. But in John 16:22, the Lord says, “You have sorrow now, but I will see you again, and your hearts will rejoice-”
John: Mm.
Jim: “… and no one will take your joy from you.”
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And that was in the context of your mom saying, “I’ll see you at the gate.”
Jen: Yes. Yes.
Jim: What a great thought.
Jen: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And even on one, uh, really hard phone call that we were having, and I was just falling apart and telling her how much I was going to miss her, um, she got very determined and she said, “I need you to remember these words. We will see each other again.” And I think back to that, and, and I know that, um, that to be true. I know that to be true, and that’s the hope that we have, um, that our spirits never die. We simply change addresses, as that one grandmother said. And so I think if we can hold true to that, that, um, yes, mourning comes for a period, but joy comes in the morning, it, we will have that time of bliss with God and Jesus and all of our loved ones. And, and that’s what, what gets us all through.
Jim: And I’m about to jump out of my chair going, “Yahoo!” (laughs)
Jen: (laughs)
John: (laughs)
Jim: I mean, it’s so true. This is what we believe, and this is why this has been so good. Not easy, but you’ve done it in such a great way, Jen, in your book, Disrupted: Finding Peace with a Parent’s Terminal Illness. What a great resource to help people process what they’re going through. I often say it’s like seeing a car accident. You, you’re not sure if this is really happening to us.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But it is. And, you know, things are gonna happen, and it’s a great guide-
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … for people to go through the loss of a parent in the right spiritual way, with the right spiritual compass.
Jen: Mm.
Jim: So thanks again for being with us. It’s been really good.
Jen: Thank you for having me.
Jim: Yeah. And if you’re in that spot or you have a loved one in that spot, this is a great resource. Here’s how we can help each other. Send a gift of any amount to Focus on the Family, and we’ll send you Jen’s book as our way of saying thanks for partnering with us in ministry.
We can also connect you with one of our caring Christian counselors, if that’s helpful. Grief is not an easy thing to navigate by yourself, and we’re here to help you any way we can.
John: Yeah, that’s our heart. And, uh, your donation allows us to, uh, have great impact. Here’s a comment from a listener named Richard who said, “Focus on the Family has been such a guiding light in my life. There have been seasons when I felt overwhelmed, alone, or unsure of the path ahead, and it was through this ministry that I began to see God’s love and guidance in real practical ways.”
Jim: Yeah, that’s what ministry’s all about. Share in the harvest. I hope you’ll join our support team so we can reach many more Richards in the days ahead.
John: Call 1-800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459. Or of course, you can donate and get a copy of Jen’s book, Disrupted, and ask to speak with one of our counselors at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
And when you get in touch, ask about our Remembering the Hope of Heaven audio collection, which can provide a lot of comfort and hope to those who are facing end-of-life situations.
Jim: It certainly can, John. And if you’ve ever had questions about heaven, I wanna strongly recommend you get this valuable collection. We’ve got wonderful messages from John Burke, Lee Strobel, Randy Alcorn, and others that will inspire and strengthen your faith, and it’s all absolutely free.
John: Learn more at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
