John Fuller: Well, having adventures are some of the best ways to strengthen those relationships within your family. And maybe your adventure this summer is going to be a special trip or something as simple as going on a nature walk with your kids. However it goes for you, everyday can provide the opportunities for special memories to be made. Today on Focus on the Family, we’re gonna be exploring ways that you can have family adventures in a meaningful way with your kids. And your host is Focus president and author Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: Hey, John, for years, uh, you know this, my family enjoyed camping trips. Jean and I think that was the best thing, uh, we ever did to bond as a family. It had some funny moments. I mean, the banging of my head on those slide-outs (laughs) and everything else, or forgetting to shut the toilet valves and then realizing, uh, oh, something’s-
John: Something’s going wrong.
Jim: … something is going to happen. And, uh, the kids loved it. They, uh, howled and laughed at me constantly pretty much. And, uh, something you alluded to, John, is that adventures, uh, don’t have to be big. You know, you don’t have to get that camper. Uh, we were able to do that and it was a lot of fun, but you can do so many other things, uh, to experience a great adventure. And we’re gonna talk today about how you can do that, uh, on the cheap really.
John: Yeah. And we heard some of the things in that opening clip that are local here. The, the, things that you-
Jim: The bug, the bug museum. (Laughs), We’ve been there.
John: There are some great things you can do. And Greta Eskridge is gonna help us all think a little bit more creatively about the, uh, the coming summer. She’s an author and blogger and has written a book called Adventuring Together: How to Create Connections and Make Lasting Memories with Your Kids. And, of course, uh, we do have that here focusonthefamily.com/broadcast or call 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. And, uh, Greta and her husband Aaron, have four kids. And we’re so glad to have her here.
Jim: Greta, welcome to Focus.
Greta Eskridge: Thank you. I’m thrilled to be here.
Jim: It’s really good to have you. Uh, for the moms and dads in the audience, uh, four kids, how old are they?
Greta: They’re 17, 15, 13, and 10.
Jim: What a wonderful thing. I just think that’s great. Those are good years. All of them.
Greta: They are. It’s crazy, but it’s good.
Jim: You’ve loved adventure. I think your whole life is something I believe your parents really instilled in you. In fact, you mentioned a rather life-changing trip that you took with your dad. What, what happened?
Greta: When I was 16, my dad and I went to India for six weeks. And-
Jim: Now, what prompted that? I mean, did he just have this desire to do that? Or was it a missions trip or?
Greta: My dad’s a pastor and he had gone on a previous mission trip to Indonesia and he had an opportunity to go to India and he wanted to bring me along and just change my world-
Greta: … and show me Jesus in new ways. And he did.
Jim: It’s a great thing to do. That is one of the things, Jean and I attempted to do as many missions trips as we could. And I’d encourage parents to do that. What was that impact as a 16-year-old girl? What impression did it make on you?
Greta: Oh gosh, it truly was life changing. I had such a, a new appreciation for things as simple as a refrigerator.
Greta: Carpet, running toilets.
Jim: Ice cubes.
Greta: Yeah, it, it was, it was just so, so simple things, to learn to be grateful and to not take those things for granted, but also it helped me connect with people in new ways. People that, that I would seemingly have no ability to connect with because we were so different. Our lives were so different, we spoke different languages, all of those things. But because we could talk to one another and meet each other face-to-face we were able to forge these bonds and it was really remarkable.
Jim: Yeah. It’s something and it’s a great lesson. Definitely. Now that’s a big adventure-
Greta: Yes it was (laughs).
Jim: … and you know, not everybody can do that for all kinds of reasons. It, it can be a little expensive, but what’s your definition of adventure? ‘Cause that’s all over the map for parents.
Greta: Right? Well, I think one of the really important things to remember about that particular trip was that was my first flight as a 16-year-old.
Greta: It was my first time leaving the country. It was my first time leaving the state of California where I grew up. So prior to that, we did small adventures all the time, going on bike rides, going on hikes near our home. Um, even taking a trip to the dump (laughing) to get rid of junk was an adventure. So, so the adventures can be small. It’s not the size of the adventure. It’s just the opportunity to connect while you’re doing it. It’s getting out of the everyday routine. That is the adventure.
Jim: Let me ask you this, because it is simple, but it’s often outside of our grasp as parents for some reason. It’s either our schedule or we’re busy or we don’t stop to think about how do we aluminate our kids’ world a little bit-
Jim: … like you said, it doesn’t have to be expensive. So how does a parent get into a better place to think somewhat like a child.
Jim: You know, to think going to the dump could be fun.
Jim: I mean, by the time you’re a parent you’re going, no, that doesn’t sound like fun.
Jim: So how does a parent maintain that kind of attitude to say, “Oh, that could be interesting if I set it up a certain way.”
Greta: Hmm. I love what you said about looking at the world like a child, is one of my favorite things about little kids is everything is wonderful. Everything is fascinating and exciting. Just yesterday, we were here in Colorado Springs and we went to Garden of the Gods and there was a little boy. He looked like he was about five and he saw a big rock and he, he could step inside. There was like a crevice of the rock. And he said, “Let’s go exploring.” And he was so excited about a crevice in a rock. And if we can have that attitude as parents, and we can remember that it doesn’t take a trip to Disney World to excite our kids. They can have the opportunity to climb on a rock and it will rock their world (laughs).
Jim: Yeah. Yeah, it’s good.
Greta: Sorry. I had to do the plan.
Jim: Yeah. That’s good. I like it. I got it.
Greta: (laughs) That, that is an amazing gift to give our kids that’s, and to step into that mode as a parent, it really, I think lightens our load. We don’t have to plan something extravagant. We just need to get down on their level and see what they like and what lights them up.
Jim: Yeah. And it does a attitude adjustment I think-
Greta: It does.
Jim: … as we get down to the budget and work-
Jim: … and all the to-dos we have to do, and you’ve-
Jim: … got to kind of pull yourself out of that intentionally-
Jim: … and think about, what’s a way that we can have fun this weekend.
Jim: Let me ask you in the book, you mentioned this idea of stretching, probably both yourself and your kids.
Jim: What were you getting at with using adventures to, to stretch yourself?
Greta: Well, I think that discomfort is something that we genuinely and generally try to avoid-
Jim: (laughs) It’s so true.
Greta: … but discomfort can be a real gift. I think discomfort draws us to God because we think, oh, I can’t do this on my own. I need outside help. I need God. Discomfort draws us to one another because we realized we have to rely on one another. So discomfort is really connecting. It connects us to God. It connects us to each other. As a family we want that so much. And discomfort also helps us realize that we can do hard things. So discomfort that stretching is a gift. And one of my favorite things about all the adventures we take is to embrace the misadventure. Like you said, at the beginning-
Greta: … of our talk here about the things that went wrong (laughs) and, um, they make great stories later. That’s what we’ll say as a family [crosstalk] when things go wrong.
Jim: You laugh about that later. (laughs)
Greta: Yes. Like in the midst, we may be like frustrated, but we say it will make a great story later. And we sort of hang on to that as the hope (laughs)-
Greta: … that we can get through. And it always does. We laugh about it later and those are like, those are the tales of our family, right. Are our epic adventures that we’re kind of a flop or really bad in the moment, but they turn into such great stories and memories later on.
Jim: Yeah, they really do. Um, you had an outside the comfort zone and I, this one is really interesting to me, the, the bus trip in downtown LA-
Greta: Oh, yeah.
Jim: … with other moms and kids.
Jim: I was kinda, I winced a little bit with that one because safety, I mean, how do you balance having an adventure and thinking about kids being safe and what did you do on the bus trip?
Greta: Well, I think for that particular one, it definitely was a stretching because we were riding like public transportation into downtown LA-
Jim: On purpose.
Greta: … on purpose with lots of little kids for the first time.
John: What could go wrong with this?
Greta: For all of us, what could go wrong.
Greta: Um, but we were all together and we were a big group. So, so I think that, that safety helped it’s it wouldn’t have been something I would have tried on my own with a five, three and one-year-old and, you know, um-
Jim: But you had a gang of kids with you?
Greta: Yeah. We have lots of moms and-
Jim: How’d that go?
Greta: … we did it all together. Um, it was growing and stretching and uncomfortable at times, but also such a valuable learning experience. One of the particular things that was difficult was at one moment on the, the train, it was just us and a person who was clearly homeless. And they were, um, hidden under layers of blankets, sitting in a wheelchair. And all we could see was the feet sticking out underneath. And, um, as you can imagine, someone who doesn’t have access to, uh, bathing facilities, the, the odor was strong, and it was hard for our kids. And we had kids that were five and three and, and everyone noticed. And, and so it was a moment for us to gather with our kids, all the moms huddled with their kids. And, and we helped them have compassion for this person who was obviously living in really difficult circumstances. But also as moms, we could have compassion for the person and compassion for our kids. How do we handle it with grace? It was a growing experience-
Greta: … but it was good.
Jim: Greta, let’s, uh, talk about technology. That can be a huge distraction today. Here at Focus, we do a lot of programs on technology and the kids use of technology. And frankly, the parents use of technology. And of course you see it at restaurants, you see it in your home. You know, everybody’s sitting with their own screen and hardly anybody’s interacting. How do you recommend we overcome that challenge of connecting as a family and not through our devices?
Greta: That’s one of the, the biggest driving forces for why I wrote this book, because I think that, uh, we are so distracted. We just live in a distracted and disconnected time. And I think a lot of times technology gives us a false sense of connection because we feel like through social media, we’re connecting with other people, but it’s not a true connection. And so if we can get away from the screens and do something that really, um, fosters that face-to-face connection or giving a gift to our kids, we’re teaching them that it matters. And I think that when we invite our kids to do something that is, um, actually engaging, we’re not just throwing down the gauntlet and saying, “No more technology,” but then we don’t offer them anything in exchange. That’s not a very (laughs)-
Greta: … that’s not a very engaging opportunity.
Jim: Well, and that takes effort.
Greta: But if instead we say, “Hey, we’re gonna go on a hike today. We’re gonna go experience something new. We’re gonna do something different.” That’s an invitation, that’s exciting-
Greta: … in exchange. So I think the technology has a powerful lure. We need to have a powerful lure with the invitation to adventure and to connect in a new way.
Jim: Uh, in your book, Adventuring Together, you identified some common parental mistakes that we make. You’re touching on one right there that we ask them not to do something, but don’t provide an alternative. What are some of the other things that we do as parents that we need to be mindful of?
Greta: Well, one of my, um, favorites is as parents, we often think as our kids grow up, they reach the teenage years that they don’t want to connect with us. They don’t want to have that time. And I think that that’s just not the truth. In fact, when my kids were little, I would often be at the store, you know, with a, five-year-old a, three-year-old, a one-year-old. I was pregnant and people would look at me and they’d say, “Oh, enjoy it now because when they’re teenagers, it will be awful.” And I read-
Jim: I think I hate that comment.
Greta: And I, and I, right and I rebelled against it. I thought that’s not gonna be my story. But I knew I had to figure out a way than to write a different story. So it’s, as my kids have grown and I’ve reached the teenage years, now I’m in the midst of them.
Greta: I realize they do want to be with me, and they want to be together as a family. So as parents with kids who are teens, we often think they need their own space. And they just wanna be with our frie- with their friends. We need to give them that. But I think we need to pull them into us. They want to be with us, even if they initially push away, they really do want to be with us. So as parents, we don’t need to make the mistake of thinking our kids, especially as teams don’t want to be around us. We need to, we need to continually invite them in.
John: We’re talking today on Focus on the Family with, Greta Eskridge and her book Adventuring Together: How to Create Connections and Make Lasting Memories with Your Kids. We’ve got copies of that here at the ministry, give us a call 800-A-FAMILY or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Greta, one of the great observations you made about parents and you encourage them in the book is don’t freak out.
Jim: You know, don’t kind of over plan and that kind of thing. I really appreciate that because I think we can become formulaic.
Jim: And we think, you know, okay, family time has to be this or devotional time has to be this. And you know, kids are quick to stale.
Jim: You know, they can smell stale-
Jim: … (laughs) if I can say it that way.
John: That’s a good way to put it.
Jim: And if you are, if you’re too regimented in that approach with kids, I don’t think they resonate necessarily. Some kids might, but I don’t think generally kids are gonna resonate with a 7:00 to 7:30 devotional time.
Jim: And we’re gonna read three chapters and then we’re gonna do this.
Jim: It needs some spontaneity-
Jim: … doesn’t and some unplanned this-
Jim: … if I could say it that way.
Greta: I, I love that. And I think that, that’s for me, why adventure is such a powerful way to connect because it’s different every time. And even if you’re doing the same trail you’ve done before, it’s going to be different every time. And in that, that differentness, it engages our senses. It engages us emotionally, physically, spiritually. And that creates that differentness that we need to help them not feel like the drudgery of, okay, this is what we’re doing again. Instead they’re like, okay, we know that this is gonna be something different. It’s going, there’s going to be some element of excitement. And that is that fun is a great tool. It’s a great motivator.
Jim: Let’s get to some practical application. So say you’re a mom and dad of elementary school aged children. What are some things I can get started? Okay. There’s been too much screen time. They do their homework. That’s good. But now they’re watching stuff on the screen until dinner. And then we have dinner, and then they do their own thing. And then we hug each other and say, good night. And I wanna shake that up now. So how do I get started?
Greta: Well, I can think of two things, um, right away. For the weekdays or weeknights, when it feels harder, you think, well, how could I possibly fit in and venture into that? I think adventuring through books is a fantastic way-
Greta: … to, um, engage the whole family. And you don’t need to, you don’t need to pick a book that you think is going to teach them a lesson.
Greta: You needed to pick a book that everybody’s just gonna enjoy.
Jim: How did you know, I was thinking that already?
Greta: (laughs) Um, so because that, all right parents right-
Jim: That’s what we do. It’s gotta teach something.
Greta: Right, we’ve got to make it meaningful and purposeful, and it is meaningful and purposeful, but the, the purpose and the meaning might simply be that we’re connecting. And so pick a time that in those evenings, when you feel like, how can I fit in an adventure? Well, you read together, and you go on an adventure through a book, and I’m telling you, it’s a powerful connecting tool to read books together and venture through books. And then when you have a little more time say on a weekend, or you’ve picked, um, uh, maybe a day off of school, whatever it is, you could plan something else. I think one of the most simple, affordable and unique ways to connect is to hike with your kids. We hike together weekly, almost as a family. And like I said before, you’ll find it’s different every time.
Greta: And it seems so simple, but there’s a really wonderful thing about hiking together. One you’re off and away from self-service. So that takes the technology (laughs) out the do- out the window. You don’t have to worry about it. Um, but you’re also able to connect in a way that is different because you’re walking shoulder to shoulder.
Greta: And I find a lot of conversations happen in those moments. Sometimes our kids are not so ready to talk about those deep things when we’re sitting face-to-face and they feel a certain pressure, but when you’re just walking side by side and you are engaged with God’s creation, your heart is open and it just allows for conversation. So those are two simple things you could do with elementary school students, age students, and you can have adventures easily.
Jim: Yeah. and again, it, it, we can over complicate it-
Jim: … which is the thing that probably then discourages us from doing it.
Jim: Rather than just go with something simple. You also mentioned growing your adventures, which I think fits in here nicely. If you start simply with a hike, how do you grow adventures? What does that mean? And then how do you apply that to your own children now?
Greta: Well, I think, um, you go from a hike to say a weekend camping trip.
Greta: And you invite them to learn how to make a campfire or set up the tent, sleep in a tent. I would say, even push beyond taking out the camper, go in a tent (laughs).
Jim: We get that. Oh, we get ideas.
Greta: That is a good adventure. Right? Yes.
Jim: Oh, yeah.
John: That is an adventure. That is an adventure just waiting to happen.
Greta: All right. Right.
Jim: Yeah. In fact, what changed us was a bear outside our tent (laughing).
Jim: Then we said, let’s get some hard walls. That was-
Jim: … momma’s quick decision for that situation.
Greta: Yes. I agree. And then, yeah. So just take it up a notch. It doesn’t have to be you’re camping, and you know, a bear infested woods. You could simply take them camping at the closest campgrounds (laughing).
Jim: You could say bear infested.
John: Yeah. Your sense of-
Greta: If there’s-
John: …. adventure was off the scale.
Greta: If there’s, if there’s one bear it feels very infested. (laughing) I think.
Jim: I’m horrible bear.
Greta: If there’s one bear outside-
John: So maybe start in the backyard with the fences and no bears.
Greta: Yeah. Definitely.
Greta: Um, but, but I bet that that bear memory sticks out. So-
Jim: Oh, yeah. Yeah. The kids slept right through it.
Greta: Right. If there’s a misadventure it’s all the better. So I think growing, yeah. And invite the kids into that, say what would excite you? How can you take our family’s adventures to the next level? What do you dream of doing?
Jim: And again, I think for parents, I want to defend parents a bit because our plates are full-
Jim: … and then we get that, but we’re encouraging you to crack open the ideas and the routines. We can get into a routine though. Even on these adventures, you can get into that rut that I alluded to. What suggestions do you have for parents to avoid the, the routine of the adventure?
Greta: I love looking for new places to go, places we haven’t been before.
Jim: So that, that creates, that requires energy from you.
Greta: It does.
Jim: And you got to look around-
Jim: … and you got to get on the internet or whatever.
Greta: You’re gonna do some research, you gotta talk to other parents.
Greta: But I think that, that finding new places to go, even if they’re not far from home, but it’s one you hadn’t been to yet or challenging yourself saying, “Oh man, that’s a three mile hike. And we usually only hike one. Can we do it?” Or going to a museum. I know lots of parents. We feel like, especially when your kids are small, like at museum sounds terrifying (laughs) because if your kid touches that priceless piece of art and all the alarms go off and they look everyone’s like, they did it, it’s scary to take your kids to a museum. But what if you create an environment where you’re just there for an hour and you’re giving your kids the opportunity to experience a new thing, and that will be stretching for both of you. So-
Jim: Absolutely. Jean and I took Trent and Troy, when they were little, it was some kind of tarantula place. I don’t think they were dangerous. Now, (laughs) maybe I should have asked-
John: Is this [inaudible].
Jim: … but I mean, they were like, you know, they let the-
Greta: A little crawl on.
Jim: … kids crawl on their arm and they’re only three or four children that had to go to the hospital (laughing). I’m kidding. I’m kidding. But, uh-
Greta: I bet you guys loved it.
Jim: …. it was a lot of fun. And the boys remember that-
Greta: Oh, yeah.
Jim: … to this day, that was one of their big adventures-
Jim: … that’s like, you know, hands-on kind of application.
Jim: Um, that idea of tradition and what I love now and what we’ve experienced as a family, doing the things that we’ve done is now that when we sit and have dinner together, this is the conversation.
Jim: Do you remember when?
Jim: And that was so much fun when that happened. And I think that’s the payoff for the parent, right?
Jim: And in that context, you’re creating memories-
Jim: … that last a lifetime literally. And one of the, the benefits I’ve felt, and of course, Trent and Troy are not married yet. And we don’t have grand- grandchildren yet. Uh, but it, it particularly, Trent has really expressed how he wants to create those kinds of environments.
Jim: So you’re really creating legacy-
Jim: … adventure when you do this ’cause your children are gonna grow up, they’re most likely gonna get married. They’re most likely going to have children.
Jim: And they’re going to carry on those traditions, right?
Greta: Yes. I love that. Thank you for saying it because I think we need to, as parents have a full vision of what our relationship with our kids can be. It’s not just for when they’re little, it’s not just for when they’re teenagers, it’s into adulthood. One of my most cherished, uh, parts of my life is that I still have a relationship with my parents. I love to be with them. I still adventure with my dad. Two years ago, my dad invited me to go on a trip to Greece with him for two weeks and-
Jim: I wanna go with your dad (laughing).
Greta: You should. It’s a lot of fun.
Jim: He seems to go to good places.
Greta: We have a lot of fun. I, I hadn’t been, um, out of the country since my kids were… well before I had kids, I hadn’t gone away from them in two weeks. And for that long, I’m sorry, I hadn’t been away for my kids for that long of a time. For two weeks, it felt like a lifetime-
Jim: Oh, yeah.
Greta: But he and my husband encouraged me. They, they both said you need to have this adventure. And even as adults, we can connect with our parents. And I, I just think I want that for my kids too. Let’s have a full vision as parents of connecting with our kids throughout their lifetime.
Jim: Yeah. Greta, I keep, and we’re right near the end here, but I keep coming back to the attitude of the parent. And this is what it’s all about. And there are things when you do these adventures that will tri- trigger you-
Jim: … and you’ve got to relax on that stuff. I remember I would just get really intense about setting up the camp and getting things done-
John: You’re the camp manager.
Jim: … you know we, but we get, of course we started late getting out of the house, pulling-
Greta: It’s hard not to.
Jim: … the trailer. So by the time we got to South Dakota to pull into, you know, whatever camp-
Jim: … it’s already seven o’clock. Jean’s antsy about dinner. We gotta feed the kids. So can, can I get in the trailer and get going? Okay, I’ll open up the trailer, which I would do connect all the lines. And then invariably, you know, I bumped my head on everything, come back with lumps and bleeding and, and, uh, but you got to relax-
Jim: … is the point I’m making. You gotta make that fun. Even in the, the misfortune of things that will happen. Flat tires, hitting deer. I did hit two deer.
Greta: Oh, man.
Jim: That was another whole fiasco with the trailer. And, but you’ve gotta just take a deep breath and say, ‘Okay, Lord, help us to have a, a good time. Even in the midst of chaos.”
Jim: And that’s what you’re learning in that.
Jim: And the kids are gonna learn from your attitude there too.
Jim: So I guess I’m coming back at the end here to say, speak to the parent’s heart about their attitude and what you have to do to maintain a good godly attitude in adventure.
Greta: Yes. There are so many opportunities (laughing)-
Jim: Yes, there are.
Greta: … to show our kids that number one, we turn to God in times of struggle, and there’s nothing too small or too big to turn to him. So it might just be, we missed our exit and I got to figure out how to turn around and get back and say, “Kids, can you guys pray in that moment?”
Jim: That could terrifying-
Greta: Yes. It could.
Jim: … with a trailer. Let me tell you I’ve experienced.
Greta: So, so there’s just so many opportunities for us to invite our kids into relationship with God-
Greta: … and interrelationship with us. And one another as siblings, while we are out on these adventures, and we’re creating a habit of connecting to God in those moments, we’re creating a habit of, um, connecting with one another and fostering a relationship of togetherness.
Jim: And in that context, probably the best place to end is how in all of these great adventures, do we bring God into it in a way that the kids will respond?
Greta: I can’t think of a better place to get to know God than out in His creation.
Greta: You see His power, you see His creativity, you see His love and His care for us. He’s an artist. And over and over again, I have said to my kids, we get to know God, by as a, a creator, we get to know our creator by experiencing his creation. So I think we can in venture anywhere, but I have to say, I have a special spot in my heart for adventuring outdoors, because it draws us so close to God.
Jim: I agree. Greta, this has been so good. It has inspired me for this summer. I haven’t come up with many creative ideas yet. So I’m gonna be working on it over the next few days.
Greta: I hope they involve bears.
Jim: Yeah, yeah, no bears. I’ll try to miss the bears and do other things, but thank you for being with this wonderful book, Adventuring Together: How to Create Connections and Make Lasting Memories with Your Kids. And it’s true. I’m on the back end of it now with two boys, 20 and 18, this is what our family experience was built on. And I’m so glad you put it into a book for others to learn from.
Greta: Thank you.
John: And we encourage you to get that book. Uh, we’ve got that here at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast, or give us a call 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. And then we do have a free resource for you on the website. It’s a parenting assessment. It takes a few minutes for you to, uh, fill out and it’ll show you where you’re strong as a parent and maybe an area or two of growth. Perhaps adventure is one of those areas you need-
Jim: I hope so.
John: … to grow in, uh, stop by the, uh, the website to find out the seven traits for effectively parenting your kids and how you can grow in that.
Jim: Greta, what a great book Adventuring Together: How to Create Connections and Make Lasting Memories with Your Kids. Uh, what a wonderful resource. And right here at the beginning of summer, we want to get it into your hands. And if you can make a gift of any amount, we’ll send it to you as our way of saying thank you for joining the ministry here. If you can’t afford it, we believe in adventure. So, uh, we’ll get it to you and trust others will cover the cost of that. Just get in touch with us today.
John: Hmm. And again, our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. Well coming up next time on this broadcast, ways to orchestrate greater peace in your life.
Kay Wyma: And that is probably one of the most powerful statements to hit to the why. Why is somebody being rude? Why are they honking at you? If we can go to the why- … then we can see the humans involved in it and lead with compassion.
End of Teaser
John: On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ.