Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Day One

Preview:

Jill Garner: All of the work that we do is heart education. Right? It’s the education of the heart. We spend so much time, you know, trying to fill our kids’ minds that we do that often to the neglect of filling their hearts.

End of Preview

John Fuller: That’s Jill Garner, discussing how we can raise children who are morally courageous and grounded in truth, and able to stand strong against all the temptations of today’s world. Welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, and thanks for joining us.

Jim Daly: John, it’s going to be a great discussion. You know, many people today would say that character education, it feels old-fashioned. You know, the napkin in the lap, and yes, ma’am, no, sir. But these are great things to teach our children. It’s very important because the tongue expresses the heart.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Right?

John: Yeah.

Jim: And I remember when my boys were younger, Jean and I decided we’d have them go through cotillion, which is, uh, what I didn’t understand at the time. It’s mostly ballroom dance training, like the waltz and that.

John: Yeah.

Jim: And how then to treat a lady at that event and, you know, seat her.

John: Yeah. A lot of manners and etiquette.

Jim: A lot of manners. They did do some table manners, which was good. How to eat with 16 pieces of cutlery.

John: (laughs).

Jim: And, you know, so it was really good.

John: Yeah.

Jim: But I had said the exact opposite to my, both my sons. I said, “Yeah, this is mostly like manners, and then you’ll do a little dancing.” Well, it’s a lot of dancing and little manners, but it was good. And it was fun for them in the end. The first night was a disaster for both of, uh, them, Trent and Troy.

John: Sure.

Jim: But I think, uh, so often we’re losing sight of teaching our sons and daughters these wonderful things and these good truths. And today we’re going to give parents the tools to cultivate the heart of your child so they can become everything that God has called them to be. And part of it is how to treat other people.

John: Yeah. And that springs out of that character that you were talking about-

Jim: Sure.

John: With respect and humility and courage. And, um, Jill Garner, as I said, is with us a- again. She’s passionate about teaching, uh, godly character and good manners to children. She’s written a number of books, uh, a curriculum called Manners of the Heart. She also speaks regularly about the importance of strong character. And today we’re gonna be hearing about a brand new book she’s written. It’s called, StrongHeart: Cultivating Humility, Respect, and Resiliency in Your Child. And you can learn more about Jill and this great book, uh, on our website. And that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Jill, it’s been a bit of time, like eight years since you’ve been on the program, but it’s great to have you back.

Jill: Yes. Uh, wonderful to be back, always.

Jim: Yeah, it’s so good. Now, one thing I want to get out there, StrongHeart. Uh, I want your definition of that, but we share a passion with movies. Braveheart is my favorite movie.

John: Ah.

Jill: Yes.

Jim: And I read that that is yours as well.

Jill: Yes, it is. Absolutely.

Jim: Um, what is StrongHeart getting at?

Jill: StrongHeart, the definition for StrongHeart is a morally courageous kid who is grounded in truth and fortified with self-respect. Not self-esteem, but fortified with self-respect.

Jim: That, and that, you know, that’s a good goal, you want to teach your children these things. You were, I think, involved in a fifth grade commencement, maybe-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I don’t know if this was your child, uh, but this commencement ceremony at public school that you said left you thunderstruck. What would happen at an elementary school commencement ceremony, leaving you thunderstruck?

Jill: Well, uh, the best word I could come up with for the emotion that I felt-

Jim: That’s a big one.

Jill: … That I felt that day, because it was a very big emotion that day. I had been asked to be a commencement speaker for the fifth grade class. Uh, and this was a Manners of the Heart school who had been using our curriculum since first grade.

Jim: Okay.

Jill: So I went in with the assumption and the prayer and the hope that these kids were Manners of the Heart kids, and that they would have the answers to some tough questions I wanted to ask. So the Lord gave me this thought, this vision of a StrongHeart, which had not been part of the curriculum. It wasn’t part of our vernacular at that point. And I took a big whiteboard and I drew a, made a heart character with the big heart and the little arms, you know, and the head. And so I turned to the kids and I said, “You’re gonna teach this lesson today. What do you believe should be in the heart of a StrongHeart?” And all the kids started throwing out these amazing answers of respect, and resiliency, and compassion, obedience, which made the, uh, parents’ eyes go up.

Jim: (laughs).

Jill: Open very, a lot, really. Obedience. And so we filled the heart in with all these beautiful heart attributes. And then I stood back and I said, “Okay, here’s your lesson for today.” I said, “Even some of your closest friends as you move into middle school, are going to try to break through that StrongHeart. And I want you to understand what happens when you make the wrong choices and you’re pulled into wrong things. I want you to understand what’s going on in your heart.” And so they gave me some scenarios which mortified me of the things that they already knew that might come before them, right? That probably were already coming before them.

So I said, “Okay, you said yes when you should have said no.” I erased a piece of the heart and began to, uh, you know, uh, take the heart apart. And so I, the kids knew, I hoped, from their Manners of the Heart lessons, when the good stuff falls out, the bad stuff gets in. And so I said, “What happens now to the love?” And we put hate. What happens to the respect? Disrespect. So we transformed StrongHeart into this heart full of terrible attributes. Then I asked a very profound question that brought the thunderstruck moment. When I said, “So now who has our StrongHeart become?” And a little boy on the front row said, “Oh, he’s a murderer.”

Jim: Huh.

Jill: Took my breath away. And a little girl raised her hand and she said, “Oh, she must be really depressed.” Now, as hard as it was to hear that, it was astounding to think fifth graders had that emotional maturity.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jill: Right? To recognize the gravity of what we were teaching and of what they were learning. And so I agreed, yes, this could be with a heart full of these attributes. How do we fix this? Oh, at first I asked, “Well, who’s responsible for this heart trouble?” And I waited and had to pause for quite a bit of time, and a child finally raised his hand. It was a little boy. And he said, “StrongHeart broke his heart.” I said, “You’re right. You’re right. We’re responsible, aren’t we?”

John: Mm.

Jill: And there you have accountability, which is one of the hardest things we have, right, to instill in our children to not blame, but take responsibility and accountability for their choices. So I said, “Alright, here’s the good news. (laughs). Here’s the good news now, we can fix this. How are we gonna fix this?” And of course, this was public school, how my heart wanted to take ’em fully to Christ, right?

John: Mm.

Jill: Couldn’t, couldn’t in that moment. And so I said, “We’re gonna transform StrongHeart. So now he makes the right choice. The hate turns back to love.” We transform the heart, put the good heart attributes back in place. And then I started drawing this circle, uh, the outline around the heart. And I said, “With each right choice now your heart gets stronger and stronger, and now your heart becomes fortified. And now you become a leader. Because now those moments and those temptations come, but they’re not gonna penetrate your heart any longer.”

Jim: Yeah. What great training.

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: I mean that, you know, again, it’s just rather simple but profound.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And, uh, that has to be encouraging. You know, in Luke 6:45, Jesus says that, “Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.” And so you’re describing that nurturing of that-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … Capacity.

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: But even teaching a child that your words are coming from some source, you know, it is just not being formed on your lips and you throw out these words.

Jill: Right.

Jim: And it’s coming from your thoughts and your soul.

Jill: Yes.

Jim: And who you are.

Jill: Yes.

Jim: Have you found that to be difficult to, to, a concept for children to grasp? It sounds like they might be grasping it better than adults.

Jill: I find that to be true quite often. A second-grader, one time in one of our schools said, “I get it.”

Jim: (laughs).

Jill: I said, “What did you get? What is it?” And he said, “What comes outta here starts down in here?”

John: Oh.

Jill: I said, second-grader.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: I said, “You’re right.” I said, “You’ve got it.” Because that’s, that’s one of the things that we talk a lot about, all of the work that we do is heart education.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: Right? It’s the education of the heart. We spend so much time, you know, trying to fill our kids’ minds that we do that often tend to the neglect of filling their hearts. And as you mentioned, the beautiful scripture in Luke that makes it so clear that the content of the heart, whether it’s good, bad, or ugly, whatever the content is, that’s what determines what a child thinks, what a child says, and what a child does.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: And so, you know, when we neglect this, we’re gonna have trouble. We’re gonna have trouble here because this isn’t filled with what they need.

Jim: You know, I’m thinking back, uh, it was a few years ago that I was in school.

John: (laughs). A few.

Jill: Only a few.

John: A few, yeah.

Jim: Just thinking about that.

Jill: Only a few.

Jim: But self-esteem education was already going when I was in school, in the, you know, I’m thinking of junior or high school would’ve been seventies.

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: And that was a big deal. You know, self-esteem, how do we… And I think I understand it, I think the culture was seeing signs of stress relationally and breakdown and all that. So, and, and, you know, teen suicide and depression was there then.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: It’s higher now. But those issues were still present. And so educators and folks thought, we gotta help these children with their self-esteem. So I get the motivation, but was it the right target?

John: Mm.

Jill: No. (laughs)

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: I’ll say no, it was not, not at all. Uh, the backstory a little bit is in the late sixties, early seventies, we were told that self-esteem was going to solve the problems of the sixties and the rebellion of the sixties. And that kids didn’t feel good about themselves. And they need to feel good about themselves. And we need to help them learn how to esteem themselves. Well, the first red flag should have been, that we missed, um, that Carl Rogers is really the one out of the clinical circles that you can hold responsible for telling us self-esteem was gonna fix everything. Well, and he’s the grandfather of humanism, should have been a red flag that this might not be in alliance with scripture.

Jim: Or, or with God’s, yeah, God’s created beings.

Jill: Yes.

Jim: I mean, that’s where you get the information on the inside-

Jill: Yes.

Jim: … Truth about humanity. But go ahead.

Jill: Yes. No.

Jim: So we’re gonna go for self-esteem.

Jill: That’s so true.

Jim: Because that’s gonna fix everything.

Jill: Right. We’re gonna go to self-esteem, it’s gonna fix everything. Well, um, has it? No, as you mentioned, the suicide rates, um, the depression, uh, the anxiety, oh my goodness. All the struggles of today, they’ve only been exacerbated through the wrong teaching of self-esteem. And I mean, I’m bold enough to say self-esteem is exactly the same sin as the sin of pride in the garden.

John: Mm.

Jill: And it’s the same thing as vainglory, a lot of talk in 16 and 1700s about vainglory. The difference is that we understood both of those ills truly were ills of our society. Right? They weren’t gonna cure anything. There were actually diseases, ills, uh, that are bad and wrong, and they’re gonna create problems. Until it was reframed and called self-esteem and then that’s when we fell for it.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: But it’s the same thing.

John: Mm.

Jim: But it is that me-ism and it’s a simpler way of saying it.

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: And that’s what’s, if you could say that’s what’s come out of that dark garden. I wanted to catch, though, in this space, talking about-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … Self-esteem, you related a story about your dad being misprescribed medication.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And I thought it was a, a really powerful analogy.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Set that up, and how does it apply in this space?

Jill: Yes. My father was not a well man during my high school years. And, um, he had took lots of medication and he had little bottles across the top of the fireplace. And he would flip ’em upside down during the day as he took ’em to make sure he kept up with it.

John: Yeah.

Jill: Because he was gonna do everything that, you know, the doctors told him, because he wanted to stay here, you know, as long as he could. And, um, he came in from, uh, he was, he had the junkyard s- Fred and Sanford and Son, if you-

Jim: Oh yeah.

Jill: That was my dad.

Jim: I used to watch that as a kid.

John: Oh, really?

Jim: That’s funny.

John: Oh my goodness.

Jill: That was, that was-

Jim: Haven’t heard that in a long time.

Jill: If, if that’s an old one for old, for us old folks around here. You’ll remember that one. Uh, but that very much my daddy and pretty much that kind of gruff personality as well, very much who my daddy was. And he came in from the junkyard one day, and, uh, the dong on the clock went off and it was time to take a pill. And he opened the medicine and he put it in his hand and he started grumbling, ’cause he could grumble like a bear. And he grumbled. And I said, “Daddy, what’s wrong?” He said, “It’s the wrong pill.” And I said, “Well, you can get it straight tomorrow when you go back into town.” He goes, “Nope, nope, nope. Time to take it. Gotta fix it now.” I said, “It’s one pill. It’s okay.” And he said, “Nope. And he jumped in the truck and headed back into town.” I felt so sorry for the pharmacist.

And, (laughs), so he got there, he came about an hour later, he comes back. We lived out in the country. He came back in and I met him at the door and I s- said, “Daddy is everything okay?” And he said, um, “Nope.” And I said, “Okay, well, give me something. So what’s wrong?” And he said, “It’s the wrong pill.” I said, “Well, good. You got it straight.” And he said, “No, the one I’ve been taking for six weeks was not the right pill.”

Jim: Oh, wow.

Jill: And unfortunately, out of all those little medicine bottles, this was the most important one of all, because it was the one to control the fluid that was building up around his heart. And so it really was the most critical of all those little pills.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: And two weeks later, daddy left for heaven.

John: Mm.

Jill: And, um, I, I believe with my whole heart, nothing ever happens in our lives that God does not, uh, intend to use for something, especially the tough stuff. And I really believe I have that experience in my life back there that was so hard. I was 18 at the time because I, I agree with you. I don’t know of a more impactful way to make the point of how critically wrong this whole teaching of self-esteem has been. And that, you know, it was as if we were taking the wrong pill, right? We took the wrong medicine, and it’s darn near destroyed us. It’s, now we’re into the second generation and now today’s parents who were raised in the crux of the self-esteem movement, that’s all they know. It’s amazing when I do a parenting seminar today, how the eyes open.

Jim: Yeah.

John: Mm.

Jill: To hit when, it’s deer in the headlights when I say, “Your children don’t need self-esteem.” It, it doesn’t even make sense.

John: Yeah.

Jill: It doesn’t make sense to them because that’s all they know. They don’t understand that it was a theory and in fact, more than that.

John: Yeah, and wrong.

Jill: Really meant to destroy it.

Jim: That’s powerful.

John: The wrong medicine.

Jill: Yeah.

John: Oh, wow. Uh, this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guest today is Jill Garner. And we’re talking about just some of the content in her great book, StrongHeart: Cultivating Humility, Respect and Resiliency in Your Child. And, uh, as this resonates with you, uh, get a copy of the book from us here at the ministry called 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. Or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast for all the details.

Jim: Jill, another area that we seem to stumble with right now is it, you know, for the most part, the United States and Canada too, I mean, we have resources. We’ve kind of scratch and clawed to a better economy, generally with the dips and all that. But, you know, most people have access to food. Most people have access to housing. Most people, you know, have the things that make life a little more comfortable. And this big banner of happiness versus joy-

John: Mm.

Jim: … Is what I’m getting at. And I think many people would see that as, you know, compatible. But Christians, there’s a big difference. And when it comes to Christian parenting particularly, we can make the same mistake where we focus on a child’s happiness versus what would be more fortification for them for life. Which would not be happiness, uh, joy is the key.

John: Mm.

Jim: Speak to that.

Jill: Ab- absolutely. Absolutely, it is. Um, you know, in part of that whole self-esteem movement, parents began to, uh, put their child’s happiness ahead of their holiness for one thing, but put their happiness above everything else. And I often tell parents that, you know, your job was not meant to make your child happy. That’s not your first goal. Your first goal, I would love to hear parents say, is to help my child become humble, for one thing. Humble and holy, right? But to mature. And so often in our quest to keep them happy, moment by moment we actually become an obstacle to our children discovering joy and ultimately finding maturity.

John: Mm.

Jill: And becoming who they’re meant to be.

John: Yeah. And Jill, how did you implement that? Or how do you promote that through your teaching and your speaking and writing? How do we as parents help our ten-year-old-

Jill: (laughs).

John: Find something more than happiness?

Jill: Yes. First, it has to begin with, uh, with helping them get outside themselves, you know. If we’re looking for happiness, we’re constantly looking for kind of what’s in it for me. You know, what’s somebody gonna do for me?

John: Mm.

Jill: Um, and worried about, as I said, that moment-to-moment satisfaction, rather than helping our children take a long view and looking toward, how am I going to contribute and give towards someone else to, uh, help them experience those moments, right? And through that, I find that joy, because we know as adults that a deeper sense of joy comes from a sense of satisfaction. That we know that we have given our all, we have given the best that we have to give. And that’s where that sense of joy comes from. Not what someone’s given me and what someone’s done for me.

John: Yeah.

Jim: Yeah. You know, Jill, in the opposite perspective of this too.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And I want your thoughts on this.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Um, we can fail to teach our kids to say no. Like no, thank you. You know, when it comes to boundaries.

John: Ah.

Jim: And I may have not done quite the job I should have done, to be completely honest. ‘Cause I think my boys sometimes I feel like they can struggle to say no to their friends, you know, doing something or nothing bad. I’m just saying.

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: You know, I, they’ll tell me later, “Yeah, I really didn’t want to go do such and such, but I didn’t know how to tell ’em no.”

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, that kind of thing. So how do we equip our kids to have the confidence?

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: To be able to say, and you know, obviously when it comes to bad behavior, drinking and drugs or whatever it might be, you know, obviously. But how do we help them just to say no to something that they don’t wanna do?

Jill: Mm-hmm. Um, I really think that that leads us really into, uh, humble confidence, ’cause I really believe that’s where it comes from.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: You know, our kids have to know one, well, important question I think we kind of, I think we’ve lost it a bit. I don’t hear it as much today as I used to, is why. And our kids need to know who they are and why they’re here. Um, and when they know those, when they can answer those questions, that enables them to say no to a lot of things. Like you’re saying, not just the bad stuff, but that no, thank you.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jill: Being able to say no thank you to certain requests that are, that are brought before them.

Jim: Jill, you survey parents frequently on what is most important. And I love these words. They’re really critical for us as parents to understand then how to instill these into our kids.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But resiliency, respect, humility. Humility, that’s a, that’s an interesting one. I had a fun story with Trent, my oldest, who I was teaching both Trent and Troy, how to ride bicycles in our driveway.

John: Mm.

Jim: So I put out the orange cones, I had these mini orange cones that I could put out and kind of made a track. And, you know, Trent’s two years older, so Trent, he got it down pretty quickly and he’s trying to do the no hands thing. And you know, he’s taunting Troy, who two years younger, a little bit, saying, “Look at me. Look at me.” And I say to him, “Be careful, ’cause pride goes before the fall.” Like three seconds later, bang, he falls over.

John: Oh.

Jill: Oh no.

Jim: I mean, it’s probably one of the best lessons I could ever give him.

Jill: (laughs).

Jim: And Troy reinforces it and goes, “See Trent, pride goes before the fall.” (laughs).

John: Ouch.

Jim: Probably the best lesson in humility I could ever provide, but the timing was perfect. But speak to that idea of getting those three, resiliency, respect or humility inculcated into your kids.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Because those can be tough to find ways to do that.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jill: Uh, they’re hard concepts really. Um, especially in today’s world. Um, one of the moms in one of our surveys said that out of those three, I was asking a lot of parents, you know, which is, when I was working on the book. You know, which is the most important, humility, respect, or resiliency? Which do you spend the most time on? And no one really, except maybe with two or three people said, humility. And one mom though, very wisely said, “Oh, it has to be humility because that’s the basis of respect and resiliency.”

John: Mm.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jill: Which I thought was very insightful, right? I thought that was very insightful. Um, you know, and humility, I’ll speak to that one first. Uh, we really, I think, have misconstrued a bit of what we think of as humility in, um, in today’s world. So often people think of a humble person, you know, as kind of a doormat. Or they’ll think of a person, a humble person is someone who might be less than whatever, fill in that blank. And the truth is, if we go to scripture to find a definition of humility, you know, scripture tells us in the Old Testament, the most humble man on earth was Moses.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: You know, and you think, wait, wait, Moses and humility, I don’t, in today’s world, I don’t know that I would really put those two together.

John: Mm.

Jill: And yet, when you look back at the original Hebrew of, uh, of humility, the root of the word humility, it really means standing in your God-given place. And how interesting it is when you think of humility, it’s more to do with the why behind your actions is what, uh, makes that action a humble one or not. Right? So if what’s behind our actions is so that, we use so that at Manners of the Heart all the time as heart checkers, so that, uh, it’s going to help someone else. If today I’m going to help John because I see John struggling with something and I know, I know how to do that, I’ve got that answer. I’m gonna share it and help it not for anything of return, but that’s, I’m actually, that’s exhibiting humility because I’m using something that I’ve learned to benefit someone else.

John: Mm.

Jill: It’s no benefit to me. Now if I’m doing that for John, because I know in two weeks I’ve gotta hit him up for a really big favor.

John: (laughs).

Jill: And I’m gonna need him to do something big for me.

John: Yeah.

Jill: So I’m gonna butter him up today. Well, there’s nothing about humility behind that action, right?

John: Mm-hmm.

Jill: So it has to do a lot with the why behind what I’m doing. Am I doing what I’m doing, am I working really hard to be the very best in my class in, uh, in math? Am I really, I want to that number one spot, I’m working hard, but it’s not so that the bright light shines on me. It’s so that I can then use that knowledge that I’ve learned in order to benefit others.

John: Mm.

Jill: That’s humility.

Jim: Well, and I appreciate the emphasis on that. I think it is a difficult concept.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Depending upon the age of your children, I mean they’ll learn it, this is part of life.

John: Yeah.

Jim: But it is interesting that scripture says, God says, “Be humble for I am humble.”

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So it’s actually an attribute of God’s character-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

John: Yeah.

Jim: … To be humble.

Jill: Mm-hmm, yes.

Jim: Um, one or two things a parent can do with a ten-year-old, a thirteen-year-old-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, when they start to understand these concepts, what are some things that are tangible that a parent can do-

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: … To bring humility, you know? (laughs) I’m laughing ’cause I’m sure a lot of parents are going, “I could teach my kids humility.”

Jill: (laughs).

John: (laughs) Yeah.

Jim: But you know, it has to be positive.

Jill: Yes, yes, it is.

Jim: So a- any thoughts?

Jill: Yes. In a positive way. One thing that comes to my mind is that checking the, the attitude behind the action, you know. Is my, is my ten-year-old being kind, as I mentioned earlier kind of with John, is my ten-year-old being kind to someone, you know, for looking for something to get in return? Or am I learning-

Jim: So you’re pressing that?

Jill: … To be kind.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: You’re pressing that. Yeah. Am I being kind simply ’cause it’s the right thing to do? That has a lot to do with humility, doing the right thing because it’s the right thing to do. Not for gain, not doing what I’m doing for anything that I’m gonna get, but doing the right thing simply because it’s gonna benefit someone else.

Jim: I think too, one of the things I tried to do in that case of humility.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You, there’s plenty of stuff going on in the culture that you’re, particularly your older sons and daughters can connect-

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: … With. Uh, probably from 10 up.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But using those examples where a lack of humility caused great embarrassment-

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: Or drove somebody to very bad behavior, and then translating that into what you heard in the news, you know-

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: I heard this the other day.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I, I tried to do that as well so that it’s not directly related to them, but they can observe-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … When humility isn’t present-

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: … What happens and the need for humility.

Jill: Yeah. That sports, um, sports brings that to mind too-

Jim: Yes.

Jill: … Of the characters that are striving to be number one.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jill: Versus being the best, because striving to be the best is about humility.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jill: Striving to be number one is about getting the bright light right?

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: Getting the bright light to shine on you. But if you’re striving to be your best so that again, we can serve others. Right? It’s the idea of being all I can be so that I’m of service and benefit to others. But that’s, that’s a good one I also think to point out.

Jim: Well and you know, these are little dial corrections for the parent.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, if you’re not observing that or you’re not, um-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … Sensitive to that approach, you-

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: … You could easily miss it, right?

Jill: Oh, mm-hmm.

Jim: So make sure if your kids are in sports, that’s what they’re going for.

Jill: Right.

Jim: Being the best, not being number one and look at me.

Jill: Right.

Jim: It just feels like that’s where the whole culture’s at.

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: Then we as Christian parents have to fight that, that stream and make sure our kids are gaining the best out of that experience.

Jill: It’s who they’re competing with.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: Um, because the culture is telling them to compete with everyone else for that number one spot. And as Christian parents, we need to be telling our children that the only person we’re gonna compete with is ourselves.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: Right. We’re competing with ourselves to be the best we can be, to be, um, to every day strive to be a little better than I was-

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: … The day before.

Jim: Well, Jill, this is a great start. We’ve finished, uh, one day, but I’d like to come back and keep talking. There’s much more-

Jill: Right.

Jim: … Content in your book and I wanna recommend you get a, a hold of us here at Focus on the Family. And like we often do, if you can make a gift of any amount, we’ll send you a copy of Jill’s book, StrongHeart as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. Uh, we can help save marriages, we can help parents be better parents. We could save a baby’s life by helping a mother, uh, choosing not to abort that child. So many good things that an investment goes for. You get a great resource, you become part of the ministry. You know, only about 3% of the listeners actually end up supporting. And I think-

John: Mm.

Jim: … If we can just move that to 5%, think how much more we could do together to impact this world for the kingdom of Christ.

John: Yeah.

Jim: So let’s do it.

John: Mm.

Jim: Get a hold of us, make a $5 gift, $10 gift, and let’s do ministry together.

John: Yeah. And I’ll encourage you to consider a monthly donation on a regular ongoing basis if you’re in a spot to do that. Uh, Jim and Jean do that. Uh, Dena and I do that. We support Focus on a regular basis, which just helps us as a ministry kinda smooth out, uh, the budget. So, uh, please be a monthly sustainer as you can or make a one-time gift. Either way, we’ll say thank you in advance for your generosity. And, uh, be sure to request your book, StrongHeart: Cultivating Humility, Respect, and Resiliency in Your Child when you get in touch. And you can donate when you call 800 the letter A and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459. Or online, we’ve got all the details at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Well, on behalf of the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back as we continue the conversation with Jill and once again, help you and your family thrive in Christ.

 

Day Two:

Preview:

Jill Garner: We wanna pray for our children that they would discover and feel that sense of God’s pleasure, right? When they are operating in God’s will for their lives, that we want them to feel that sense of God’s pleasure.

John Fuller: That’s Jill Garner, encouraging us with some very practical ways that we can raise children with strong hearts. Welcome back to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and Jill is back with us again today. Uh, we’re looking forward to hearing more from her about how to equip our children to be morally courageous in this world. Your host is Focus president and author, Jim Daly, and I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, last time, uh, Jill began describing what it means to be a StrongHeart. You’re gonna hear that over and over again.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I think it’s a good thing. Just think about that with our kids, especially in the culture we’re in now.

John: Yeah.

Jim: Uh, our children, as you know, kids coming from a Christian family, they need strength. They need courage and I think they’re gonna need a lot more of it, than maybe what our generation had to deliver, right?

John: Mm-hmm. It’s getting harder and harder it seems. Yeah.

Jim: So it’s a good thing and Jill’s gonna describe in greater detail what that means. Uh, last time, we covered the definition of StrongHeart and that’s a young person with moral courage, grounded in truth and fortified with self-respect. I thought the content was terrific. If you missed it, go back and listen. And you get that from the app or the website, wherever you can listen. And today, we’re gonna continue that discussion. She’s developed a Manners of the Heart curriculum that champions humility, respect, resiliency, et cetera. All the right attitudes that we want our kids to have. Sometimes those can be difficult to deploy as a parent-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … with our kids. We talked about that last time and, how do we teach humility? You know?

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Think about it. It’s kinda like, “How do you define water?” Uh, sometimes that can be hard. She makes it much easier.

John: Yeah. And if you begin with the end in mind, as Stephen Covey talked about, you’re thinking right now about, “How do I develop these traits?” Jill has so many great insights and, uh, she’s written wonderfully about this topic in a book called StrongHeart: Cultivating Humility, Respect, and Resiliency in Your Child. And, uh, you can learn more about Jill and all that she’s doing in this terrific resource, uh, at our website and that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Jill, welcome back to Focus on the Family.

Jill: Thank you. Glad to be back.

Jim: (Laughs) And, uh, let’s, uh, the folksy part of it. You grew up in Louisiana, right?

Jill: Well, I grew up in Mississippi actually-

Jim: Okay.

Jill: And then I moved to, uh, Louisiana about 35 years ago.

John: Okay.

Jim: That’s amazing. What a great part of the country. Of course, the Robertsons are good friends, the Duck Dynasty folks-

Jill: Oh yeah.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And they have turned being from Louisiana into quite an industry. (Laughs)

Jill: Yes, they have. Yes, they have. Between that and New Orleans.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: You know?

John: Got it all.

Jill: But I tell everybody, skip all that and come to Baton Rouge.

Jim: There we go.

John: There you go.

Jim: Tha- That’s good advice.

Jill: That’s right. Come to Baton Rouge. See us in Baton Rouge.

Jim: I mentioned that curriculum called Manners of the Heart. Um, you know, sometimes today with all the strain, especially in public schools who are pumping a lot of not so healthy stuff into our kids. We talked about that last time, this idea of of self-esteem versus self-respect.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But, um, what is that curriculum and how does it help create a strong heart?

Jill: Mm-hmm. Well, Manners of the Heart, um, I wrote the first curriculum, oh, more than 20 years ago now. And, um, and it’s really evolved into really heart education which is really what we call it, the education of the heart. Mm-hmm.

Jim: How many elementary schools are using that?

Jill: Oh, goodness. We’ve been in hundreds of elementary schools-

Jim: That’s great.

Jill: … across the country. We’re in Mexico City. We also have a school in, uh, Kampala, Uganda which is really a precious school. So about the fourth, fifth year, I think, going into the fifth year with that school which is really a sweet, sweet place to be.

Jim: That’s good.

Jill: Yes.

Jim: It’s so good.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Um, last time, I briefly mentioned your love of Braveheart. I started by saying we share that same, uh, fanfare, I guess, for that movie.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And I set out, actually as a dad… I mean, when my two boys were at the right age, the age appropriateness for watching Braveheart, we sat and watched it and we talked about what it meant to be a man in that kind of context. It was a great tool. I think they would say today that it was one of their best and favorite movies as well. Even today, now that they’re in their 20s ’cause it had so many great elements. Um, in that context, what do you think families can learn from Braveheart? Of course, we went on to The Patriot. Just about every Mel Gibson movie.

Jill: Okay. All right. All of them. All of ’em. Almost all of ’em.

Jim: Yeah. Almost all-

Jill: Almost all-

John: … Yeah.

Jill: But, uh, yeah, Braveheart, um, what I love so much… I was teaching a Bible study at the time when Braveheart came out, a lady study, and a couple of ladies got very upset with me ’cause one lady’s… Uh, her husband had taken her to the movie to see it when it came out and she laughed. She said, “Oh, this is too bloody. It’s gory and,” you know, “it’s too much. Too much.”

Jim: Right.

Jill: And I said, “No, you missed the point. You missed the whole point of the movie.” It was very real, uh, very realistic. I mean, that is how the battles were, were fought. Um, but I said, “But you missed the deeper, deeper point of Braveheart to me, which was that he knew… He was so grounded in truth, is what I saw from Braveheart, from William Wallace.” He was so grounded in absolute truth. He absolutely knew what was right and what was wrong in the situation which he found himself. And he was determined to walk it out, you know, to stand for truth. And that gave him the moral courage that he had to fulfill his destiny, right?

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jill: To fulfill. And by destiny, of course, I mean, God… His God-given purpose, right? And that’s, to me, that’s exactly, you know, what we’re trying to do with StrongHeart.

Jim: Yeah. You know, in that context, though, absolute truth seems to be so elusive for the culture today. I mean, if you claim absolute truth-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … as we as Christians will, believing Scripture is absolute truth, we get attacked.

Jill: Yes.

Jim: And, uh, people say, “That’s your truth, but not my truth.”

Jill: Right.

Jim: How is the understanding of absolute truth, and as I define it, kind of understanding of the truth of God’s Word.

Jill: Right.

Jim: Um, how does that encourage a strong heart-

Jill: Right.

Jim: … or bravery?

Jill: Right. Um, well, I believe it really, um… It helps to kind of cultivate bravery in a child’s heart. It kind of goes back to something I mentioned in our… In our last interview, that, um, we want our children to know whose they are and why they’re here. And, um… And when we’re cultivating, um, wanting them to be brave, they have… Those two questions have to be answered and they’re gonna be answered through absolute truth. Through knowing, um, God’s Word and knowing what God’s Word stands for, because… And I mean, you can throw out any issue in our culture today and what the world is saying is gonna be the antithesis of what God’s Word says. But unless our children know Scripture, they’re not… They’re not going to know that. And how do we begin… Like for very young children. I mean, I’m helping my, my youngest granddaughters memorize Scripture now and we started that when they were three or four years old, you know, which is the time to begin that and give ’em that love for the Scripture. But even beyond memorizing Scripture, they have to see it in us and, um, they have to see that we live by absolute truth. That we don’t shade the truth. That we don’t, you know, color it. That we don’t fudge a little here and there. You know, they have to see and understand what absolute truth is and see in us that we live and abide by God’s Word, even when it’s hard. You know, so often, we can try to teach our children what we want them to learn, but they are going to emulate what they see in us.

Jim: Yeah. That’s so true. Actions are bigger than words.

Jill: That’s right.

Jim: And, uh, that’s- that’s a fact. You mentioned in the book… Your childhood, you had, you know, a battle with being fearful. That’s not uncommon, but you felt it was handicapping you as a child-

Jill: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Jim: … the best way I could read it and describe it.

Jill: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jim: But you kind of determined, “Okay. I’m gonna help my kids not have those fears that I had.”

Jill: Right.

Jim: Very typical of us as parents-

Jill: Right.

Jim: … when we have our childhood experiences, uh, we want to compensate to make sure our kids don’t have those things-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … whatever they might be.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Mine was probably scarcity, being an orphan kid. So man, you know, we went to Disneyland far too much.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: We… I overindulged them with-

John: As a parent, we were compensating-

Jim: … we’re not… Yeah. I was… I was doing that with my boys.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, we just… And Jean had to kind of grab me and say, “Okay. We’re okay. Well, we don’t have to overindulge them.” But you did that with… In the context of fear.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Describe that and how did you help your kids not be fearful? That’s a big one.

Jill: Yeah. I was, uh, I was afraid of everything as a child. I was scared of my shadow. I was scared of the dark. I was scared of water. I was scared of heights. I was scared of people. Uh-

Jim: Wow. You had it going.

Jill: I really… I truly did. I really, truly did. And it was, uh… And it really was a handicap for me. Especially mo- moving into middle school and into high school. It really, uh… It impeded me. Um, you know, it kept me from having, um, deeper relationships and, you know, I would always say, “Oh, no, I can’t do that. I can’t do that.” And so I was determined, as you said, Jim, that my sons were not going to be, because I was aware of it, and I had overcome it. One way that I overcame that is in high school. One of my girlfriends, who knew I was so afraid of things, said, “You know what, rather than getting afraid, when we’re going to go do something and you won’t go with us because you get scared and then you’re going to get a tummy ache and you won’t go, think of that as anticipation.” You know, think about, wow, okay, I’m feeling scared. But you know what? It’s not that I’m scared, it’s that I’m anticipating what’s to come. And as I began to think of it in those terms, it brought that fearfulness into excitement.

Jim: No, that’s good.

Jill: It’s a good thing.

Jim: I mean, some people, like if you speak publicly, it’s very common to have a bit of fear, because you look out, there’s a thousand people-

Jill: Right.

Jim: You better deliver, right?

Jill: Right.

Jim: So, I mean, it’s always something.

John: Yeah, there’s some reasonableness. You should be a little bit afraid about that.

Jim: Yeah, right.

Jill: Right, right.

Jim: That’s fair. Let me, uh, pour into more of the content that you described.

Jill: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Jim: Grit as an acronym.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, you use that, uh, to help people understand the goal of what we’re trying to hit. And I’ll just use the four and then you can… We’ll go in and you can fill it in.

Jill: Okay. Okay.

Jim: But it’s guts-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … resilience, integrity, tenacity, so let’s go through that. What- what qualifies for having guts?

Jill: Yeah. For- for guts, to me… Guts, to me, is really nothing more and nothing less than the willingness to try, right? It’s having the guts. Guts is saying, “I’m gonna raise my hand.” And we used to, um, have a high school program that we did for quite some time with high school kids. And we just had to let something go to focus on our young learners, which is where we really focus now is on young learners. But in our high school program, I would start a day with maybe 125 kids in the room and a whole day of training and I would say, “I need three volunteers.” And, you know, frozen. No one would move. And I would say, “Okay, let me tell you something. I found in my years of working with high school kids that the kid who’s willing to try is the one who’s going to go a long way because it doesn’t matter if you succeed or fail. What’s more important is that you’re willing to try.”

Jim: Sure.

Jill: And all of a sudden, of course, hands went up all over the room. That’s guts, right? The kid who’s simply willing to try. And that’s what we have to tell our children to help them develop guts. It’s not- what’s not as important if you win or you lose, right? If you succeed or you fail, what’s most important is the willingness just to stand up and try.

Jim: Especially at a younger age.

Jill: Oh.

Jim: You know, I’m thinking of flag football.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: What a great place for that to be demonstrated. You know, just take the ball and run.

Jill: Right.

Jim: Half the time, they don’t know which direction they are running in-

Jill: No.

Jim: Yeah. It’s so funny.

John: Yeah.

Jim: I remember baseball. I took Trent out to play baseball. It was Tee Ball, five years old. And it was so funny just standing there watching these kids ’cause the coach would hit a gentle ball out to right field, everybody would run to the ball-

Jill: That’s right.

Jim: … including the catcher-

Jill: That’s what I heard.

Jim: So then, he had to say, “No, no, no. You stay here,” but all nine players are running to the ball-

Jill: Right, right.

Jim: … but they’re out there trying, right?

Jill: That’s right.

Jim: That’s how they’re gonna learn-

Jill: That’s what it is.

Jim: Okay. Resiliency. I think we have a theme developing. This is with your granddaughter who had a gym bar. I think the gym thing is big in the family here-

Jill: Yes.

Jim: … but what was that with building resilience?

Jill: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. So one of the girls wanted to, uh, get on the gym bars. And the older daughter… The older granddaughter had mastered it. You know, had learned it and it was pretty good bit off the ground. The younger one said, “Oh, I’m gonna do it,” and my inclination was to say, “No, wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait. No, be careful. No, wait. Oh, I’m not so sure you’re ready.” And I realized, “Wait a minute, Jill.” Of course, which I have to tell myself all the time, “You teach this stuff, Jill. You’re supposed to… You’re supposed to know what to do.” And I said, “Oops,” and I had to swallow hard and wince a little bit and let her go and let her do it without trying to… And… You know, stop her or even to just say, “Be careful. Be careful.” I just needed to zip it, because we have to let our kids try, right? And sometimes we can stop that advancement in them and have to let ’em try. And they might… They might land on their backside, right? They might not make it. They might fall, but that’s where they learn to get up and try again-

Jim: That might be your next book, parenting book, Zip It.

Jill: Zip It.

Jim: A lot of parents need to do that.

Jill: Oh, a lot of us need that one.

John: Yeah. These are good lessons from, uh, our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, Jill Garner. Uh, she has written so extensively and from her heart about the importance of developing character and how that comes out in our child’s lives, what that looks like. Get a copy of Jill’s book, StrongHeart: Cultivating Humility, Respect, and Resiliency in Your Child. We have, uh, that book here at the ministry and you’ll find the details at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And Jill, this, this next letter is hard for me because, um, it’s almost as if it’s on me to model integrity more than teach it. So address, yeah, the I for integrity.

Jill: Oh, absolutely. That is… That is so, so, so, so true, John. Um, I love the definition of integrity that really comes from a friend, Henry Cloud. Um, that, uh, integrity is the courage to meet the demands of reality which I think is so hard. So hard for all of us because, you know, in those difficult moments when it’s… Sometimes in the moment, it seems easier to give in, right? In the moment. But, uh, we have to be willing to stand up in those tough moments, um, and meet those demands of reality, right? That’s the courage to meet those demands of reality. Uh, you know, we always say when it… You know, when I was growing up, the big thing was, “Do as I say.”

Jim: Yeah. Not as I do.

Jill: Not as I do. Right. That was the big thing. And somehow, that kind of worked, I think, in my generation. I don’t believe that works in today’s generation.

Jim: No-

John: No, we have to be authentic don’t we.

Jim: They sniff it out. All right. Grit. The- the T is for tenacity. I like tenacity. But your grandson Jack kind of holds the world’s record for tenacity. What- what- what does he look like? What does he act like?

Jill: Oh, I so agree, so agree. Uh, Jack is a… Is a 10th grader and, uh, he has been into swimming for quite some time in, uh, you know, competitive swimming. And he’s very, very serious about it. And, you know, he- he, um, he tickles me when he says, “No. No, Gigi. You didn’t get that right. I now go to practice at 5:30 in the morning, three days a week.” You know, all the… He wants to make sure I have it right. And what I love about Jack and watching him swim is, uh, his attitude toward it because it’s so tenacious. Uh, when he comes up and he finishes and he touches the side of the pool, and that head pops up immediately, his eyes turn to the scoreboard. But he is not looking, I assure you, he is not looking for his placement. He is looking at the time.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jill: Because what’s most important to Jack is, “Did I take a few seconds off my time from the last time I swam this heat?”

Jim: So it’s about him and his time-

Jill: It is-

Jim: … rather than him and the… And the competitors.

Jill: Totally. It’s kind of a lot of what we’ve talked about, right? He’s looking for how I’m competing with myself. He really wants to see… I think about Eric Little, you know, from Chariots of Fire-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jill: … that when I run, I feel God’s pleasure. Um, when Jack pops that head up, you know, what he’s looking for is, “How fast, how far can I go? I wanna know what God created me to do. I wanna discover that,” and, um… And that’s, just on a side note, that’s one of those beautiful prayers that I often recommend to parents when it comes to all of these attributes and qualities, is that we wanna pray for our children that they would discover and feel that sense of God’s pleasure, right? When they are operating in God’s will for their lives-

Jim: Yeah. It’s a great story.

Jill: … that we want them to feel that sense of God’s pleasure.

Jim: You speak in the book about, uh, developing the practice of other-centeredness. You came around, I think a five-year-old. I think his name was Walt, if I remember correctly, and he- he gave you a great example. What- what was that like?

Jill: Oh, he did. My precious little neighbor. Uh, we live in a cul-de-sac and we’re- we’re in a small neighborhood, but we’re… In our cul-de-sac, we’re especially very close to each other. And, uh, Walt had apparently been picking up, as five-year-olds do, the news and everything that the adults around him were talking about with the high gas prices and the… All the inflation and he would… He had really… It had gone… Taken to his heart. It had gone to his heart. He was very concerned about it. And, uh, I found… I opened my mailbox one day and there was a little… A Ziploc bag in there with a little note and it just said, “Walt,” and it had $2 and 2 cents in coins in it. And I thought, “Oh, goodness. Maybe Walt stuck it in the mailbox, you know, by mistake or something.” So my husband went to return it to my neighbor to find out that, “Oh, no, no, no, no. That was a gift.” And that Walt had taken his birthday money and had divided up his birthday money and had put it in each of the neighbors in the cul-de-sac ’cause he wanted to help us with our high gas prices-

Jim: Oh my goodness-

Jill: … and the… And the cost of food.

Jim: Yeah. As a five-year-old-

Jill: As a five-year-old.

Jim: Boy, that’s a future economist. I wonder where Walt is today. Jill, not all of us are gonna have like a genius child like Walt who’s going- going and putting money in other people’s mailboxes to help ’em with their gas. But, uh, what are some practical things we can do with our children to help that other-centeredness?

Jill: Right. So one of the things I did with, uh, with my boys is, um, I was always trying to help them see, uh, the needs of others and how they might could meet those needs, uh, to give them that other-centeredness perspective. For instance, we stopped at the dry cleaners during the summer and, uh, the air conditioner was out. And you can imagine dry cleaners is miserable anyway and the air conditioner was out and we’re in South Louisiana. It was miserable. And, uh, I said, “Boy, I wish there was something we could do for those ladies,” and the boys said, “Mom, we can do something.” And so, we went home and we loaded up some, uh, water bottles and, you know, got some snacks and stuff and put it on ice and took it back. I stayed in the car. The boys were around 10. I stayed in the car and the boys took it in, you know, and- and gave them… And made sure everybody got water bottles and all talked to ’em for a minute. And- and they were just… Of course, the boys came out and they were just as, you know, high and joyful as they could be as those they had served, right?

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: But that was that way of, you know, helping them always look, if there is a need in front of them, how they can meet that need.

Jim: It’s beautiful how God has created in this that joy of giving, the joy of giving to others.

Jill: Yes.

Jim: Isn’t that amazing?

Jill: Yes. Oh, it’s incredible. And there’s- there’s so many ways that- that we can cultivate that. It’s there and, you know, we just need to cultivate and help our kids constantly look for how they can meet the needs of others.

Jim: Mm-hmm. Uh, you speak to the fact that parents have a responsibility to train up their children in the way they should go. That’s a biblical reference to Proverbs 22:6. Sometimes that means you gotta push ’em a little. And, uh, what is a- a mechanism of persuasive pressure that gets the right result?

Jill: Yes. I love this concept of persuasive pressure. You know, Scripture tells us to use wise words, right? With gentleness and respect is what it tells us. To me, that’s persuasive pressure. You know, um, a ruby, that’s why there’s a- a kind of a cut ruby-type looking heart on the front cover of StrongHeart because, um, a ruby, uh, it’s… Is even harder to mine than diamonds and you have to go much deeper. It takes more heat, more pressure to actually mine it, and get those rubies out. And then, turn them into the beautiful stones that we use today. And the same thing is true with persuasive pressure. We want to get underneath. We want to mine out, right? Those beautiful qualities so our children can become those beautiful gemstones that God created them to be. And we- we do that with our kind words of gentleness and respect. And of course, the wisdom that we use comes from scripture.

Jim: You kind of twist, uh, in a good way, the, the golden rule about wanting to be res… You know, treated well.

Jill: Yes.

Jim: You know, treat others the way you wanna be treated. But that ruby rule says what?

Jill: Right. We call it the ruby rule is to respect others the way you want to be respected.

Jim: Huh? Is that… Now, does that work?

Jill: I believe it does work. Uh, you know, something that we teach children in our curriculum, in this whole idea of other-centeredness, in respect-based education is that, um, you have a decision to make. When you’re faced with disrespect, you can return disrespect. But what are you gonna get? More disrespect, right? You’re gonna get even violence. I always say that not all, uh, disrespect ends in violence, but all violence began with some level of disrespect.

Jim: Hmm.

Jill: So you have that choice to make or you can choose to be the greater person, the stronger person, and return disrespect with respect.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jill: Now, you can begin to break down a wall. Now, perhaps, that can dissipate that disrespect, because disrespect has nothing to do with it if you’re not giving it back, right? And now, maybe you can get somewhere and have a civil conversation.

Jim: Yeah. You know, Jill, so often right here at the end, I’m thinking of the parents who are, you know, they might have the 13, 14, 15-year-old. They’re in those teen years and, you know, just hasn’t been managed well and that’s okay. There’s all the time for self-reflection and all that. But I would suggest, I think you would support that, it’s not too late to try to turn those things around, especially if they’re mirroring that disrespect. Uh, you need to look at your own example.

Jill: Yes.

Jim: Right?

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: That’s probably the best thing you could do first-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … and make sure you’re representing the core things you want your kids to live by-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … such as respect and humility.

Jill: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jim: And if you’re not seeing it in your children… Now, I’ve got to give the disclaimer, the Lord gives each one of us free will and that’s why it’s not a formula. You can do things that have predictive ability to love your children well, to teach them humility and respect.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But guess what? Kids still get to choose.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I know we don’t like that.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But there’s a higher predictability-

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: … that if you’ve demonstrated these things and live by ’em in terms of practice-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … your- your children should be able to catch those, embrace those.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But the parent that has struggled for, whatever reason, what do I do now? Jill, I’m hearing you. I- I get it, but my 15-year-old is so disrespectful to me.

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: What do they do?

John: Mm-hmm.

Jill: Yeah. Well, what a tough question.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: Very tough question. I believe it would start with a very honest conversation, uh, where the parent needs to be very transparent to recognize. To, you know, say to that 15-year-old, you know, “That I recognize that I haven’t been the person. You know, I haven’t been who I needed to be for you to be able to become, you know, who God intends for you to be. I’ve been even a hindrance, you know, rather than a help.”

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jill: ‘Cause-

Jim: And that’s humility.

Jill: And that’s utter humility, isn’t it?

Jim: Yes. Yeah.

Jill: It is utter humility. And then, something I always believe, um, it’s almost like cold turkey. Uh, that it’s… When you had sit down and have that, uh, difficult conversation that you say, “From this day forward, we’re going to do things differently.”

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jill: You know, “From this day forward… I know what the past has been. I know where we have been and look where it’s gotten us today.” And if you truly have a disrespectful 15-year-old, then you’ve got a miserable kid.

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: I mean, that- that goes hand in hand. If they’re disrespectful, then they’re miserable and it also means their heart needs have not been met. Because whenever there’s trouble on the outside, there’s always a struggle on the inside, in the heart. And we can go back and see what their soul questions children need satisfied at each, um, stage of development, which we talk about. And we can go back and see what we missed, what we didn’t give our kids that we needed to give them, and start afresh. Start anew. I mean, Scripture tells us that, you know, everyday has new grace and new ability. And I really believe if… Sometimes I think we just have to go cold turkey-

Jim: Yeah.

Jill: … when we need to make a serious course redirection.

Jim: Yeah. And it takes effort. It takes energy. It takes thought. It takes the ability to actually live through your own humility, your own need for respect, et cetera. But it’s the best thing and it will be the most powerful thing you do for your children-

Jill: Absolutely.

Jim: … if you’re in that spot.

Jill: Absolutely.

Jim: And the other thing I would caution parents-

Jill: Just take ownership.

Jim: … who are in that spot as a 15-year-old, right?

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, with the disrespectful 15-year-old.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Look at the long game here. Not… You know, they may be behaving that way, but, you know, I think it will be different at 30. Hopefully sooner.

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: But hang on to that relationship.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Don’t sacrifice the relationship and the influence that you have.

Jill: Right.

Jim: And a lot of parents can testify to that-

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … their relationship is far better now.

Jill: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But it took some time.

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: Maybe some years-

Jill: Yeah.

Jim: … to get there and just don’t give up on that relationship.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jill: Absolutely.

Jim: That is good advice, I think.

Jill: Yes.

Jim: But Jill, this has been terrific. StrongHeart: Cultivating Humility, Respect, and Resiliency in Your Child. Great concept and it’s been so good to talk with you-

John: Yes.

Jim: Thanks for being with us.

Jill: Oh. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Jim: And I’m turning to you, the listeners, uh, this is a book I think you want to get. Especially if you have kids in the house. But if you’re a grandparent and you wanna drop a little pillow book on your, your adult children, uh, you know, leave this one on their table or something. This might be good and it will be good. And it’s the right things to concentrate on and I think the outcomes will be terrific. So get ahold of us as we normally do. If you can make a gift of any amount, that would be great. And we’ll send it to you as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. If you make that donation monthly, that’s how Jean and I support the ministry and John and Dena do that as well.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: It helps even out the budget for the year and, uh, allows us to do more ministry together. I’d love a phone call. Uh, somebody had made a- a substantial gift to Focus they had never donated before and I called to talk to them and they said, “Well, Jim, here’s what we expect. I expect you to run the ministry at Focus effectively and efficiently, so my wife and I can do ministry through it.” That’s beautiful-

John: Yeah.

Jim: … and that’s the way to see it. Uh, you know, I’m here. The management team guarantees, to the best of our ability, we’ll run it effectively, efficiently, God-honoring, and you can do ministry through it. And I think that’s how God sees it. So do that. Join us today and you’ll get a great resource for your parenting.

John: Yeah. Donate either a one-time gift or if you can, a monthly pledge, as Jim noted. Uh, when you call 800 the letter A and the word FAMILY, where we’ve got all the details about how you can, uh, make a contribution, make a difference, and receive Jill’s book, StrongHeart. Uh, all those details are at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Well, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.