Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Day One

Wendy Speake: These triggers are opportunities. And if we don’t ready ourself to see them as an opportunity, we’re going to respond wrong when they respond wrong. But if we’re prepared, we can respond right when they do wrong, and we can invite them into maturity with us.

John Fuller: Some really insightful words from Wendy Speake, and she and her friend and co-author, Amber Lia, were with us earlier this year talking about anger in parenting. That show connected with a lot of people, and so it’s back today as one of our Best of programs from 2024. Thanks for joining us. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: There is so much grace for those of you who find yourselves, uh, getting angry with your kids. And you’ve probably been beating yourself up, but, you know, it is common within parenting. Parenting can be frustrating. But I wanna share with you a listener comment about this particular show when it aired last time. They said, “Thanks God, Focus on the Family, and ladies. This is truly an answer to a heartfelt prayer. I needed this to help my daughter with my granddaughter, and I’ve learned so much. I’m sharing on all my social media and with family and friends. Father, renew a right spirit in our emotions to reflect your kindness, gentleness, grace, mercy, and self-control to every child. Amen.”

John: Hmm.

Jim: What a great comment.

John: That is wonderful.

Jim: Uh, today, we want to give you another opportunity to hear this. We hope it will help you respond softly, gently when you feel an angry reaction being triggered.

John: Amber Lia and Wendy Speake have written a terrific book about this topic called Triggers: Exchanging Parents’ Angry Reactions for Gentle Biblical Responses. Uh, you can find out more about our guests and this terrific book when you stop by focusonthefamily.com, or give us a call, 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Here now, a Best of Focus on the Family presentation featuring Wendy Speake and Amber Lia.

Jim: Well, Amber and Wendy, welcome back. It’s always good to have you. You bring a certain energy to the broadcast booth here.

Wendy: Thank you.

Amber Lia: Well, we’re glad to hear it, yeah. Thank you.

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: Yeah, we love being here.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Now, I love the, I love the cover of the book. If people can’t see this ’cause they’re listening on the radio or wherever they’re listening, it is a mom with her mouth wide open, kind of screaming.

John: (laughs)

Wendy: Kind of screaming.

Amber: Accurate. (laughs)

Jim: Okay, that’s it, right?

Wendy: (laughing) Yeah, yeah.

Amber: Accurate picture (laughs).

Jim: I mean, that’s the statement (laughs).

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: Yes.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: And John mentioned this, but you’re moms of seven boys combined. I mean, so you get it. I’ve got two boys. Boys are great. Boys are a bundle of energy. And sometimes they’re just… And I’m sure daughters do this too, I just haven’t had that experience. John, you’ve got that experience. But, man, it’s like button-pushing, right?

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: They know exactly where to push your button to get the reaction they want.

Wendy: Absolutely, they do.

Amber: Yep.

Jim: So, th- the golden question is tell us about how you are overcoming your anger when they push that button, and then we’ll sign off.

Amber: Well-

Wendy: (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Amber: … okay, simple enough.

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: You know, I planned to be a great, calm, gentle, biblical, loving mom. That was the plan before I had kids.

Jim: So, you went into it with that thought.

Amber: Yeah, I went into it-

Jim: “I’m gonna be such a great mom.”

Amber: I’m gonna be a fabulous mom. ‘Cause I had been a teacher.

Jim: (laughs)

Amber: I had been a teacher with lots of students, and I was pretty calm with them. And I felt like I was a great teacher, and so I just naturally assumed that that would play a part in my parenting journey. And then I had kids-

Jim: (laughs)

Amber: … and that whole th- mindset got turned upside down. And I love my children, but they were not producing peace in me, I realized-

John: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: (laughs)

Jim: Yeah, they don’t go anywhere at 3:00 in the afternoon.

Amber: Yeah. No.

Jim: They don’t go home.

John: (laughs)

Jim: There i-

Amber: They don’t go home.

Jim: Your, your home is their home.

Amber: Yes.

John: (laughs)

Amber: 24/7, whole different ball game. And so it was a shock to me to discover that I had some triggers.

Jim: Yeah, d… So, you really didn’t think you did?

Amber: I didn’t.

Jim: You think that’s pretty common with most moms, that they, they, like you, have that attitude of, “I think I can manage this. I’ll be a great mom.”

Amber: Yeah, I think so.

Jim: “I love the Lord, the Lord will show me the way.”

Wendy: Sure, I abide in Him-

Amber: Yep.

Wendy: … He abides in me.

Amber: Yeah.

John: (laughs)

Wendy: And the fruit of His spirit will be-

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: … you know, hanging plentiful on my-

Jim: Yes, Wendy.

Wendy: … on, in my life. And-

Jim: (laughing)

Amber: Caught off guard, mm-hmm.

Wendy: Well, and I think that there are various reasons why we can be caught off guard. A- Amber has a little bit more of a traditional, uh-

Amber: Yes.

Wendy: … story-

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: … in how she got here. And mine was more of a surprise in a different way.

Amber: Yeah, so I-

Wendy: So, do you wanna go first?

Amber: When I, when I was growing up, I came from a home life that had quite a bit of chaos. My parents came out of a, a situation that was very difficult for them (laughs), let’s just say that. And so, there was a lot of challenging moments for them as parents. And they were wonderful, and we have a fabulous relationship. But I swore I will never d- yell at my kids. I’ll never be this angry, I’m never going to do that and pass that on. And then I found myself doing that. And so, I just was frustrated with myself. Like, how is this happening? Because that’s not who I thought I would be.

Wendy: Right.

Amber: And it real… That caught me off guard. And Wendy, it was very-

Wendy: Yeah, it’s, it’s the opposite.

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: N- I don’t have a single memory of being yelled at or people yelling in my midst. And so, when I had the third child-

Jim: (laughs) My jaw is hanging open here.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: I, I know.

Jim: Huh?

Amber: Right?

Wendy: When I had my third child, it’s like something broke. It’s like, whoa, why-

Jim: Yeah, you got outnumbered (laughs).

John: (laughs)

Wendy: … why does it keep coming out of me, this, uh, this, you know, exasperation, this anger, when I never had this modeled?

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: So, it doesn’t matter how you got here, this conversation is really f- just for all of us because we get there.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Okay, but here’s the question. Were you ever that woman that you saw that outta control kid at Walmart and said, “Not when I’m a mother.”

Wendy: Oh.

Jim: “That will never happen.” And then, sure enough, boom.

Wendy: There y’are.

Jim: (laughing)

Amber: It’s easy to say that until you have that child yourself.

Wendy: Right.

Amber: (laughs)

Wendy: You got a lot more c-, uh, compassion, a lot more empathy-

Amber: Yes.

Wendy: … for moms once-

Amber: That’s right.

Wendy: … you’ve become one, that’s for sure.

Jim: Isn’t that a great idea?

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: Go and say, “Is there any way I could help ya?”

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: Rather than judgment (laughs).

Wendy: Or just that you’re doing a good job, keep at it.

Amber: And that’s why when-

Wendy: And, and I hope that’s what this is.

Amber: That i… Th- that’s what I was just gonna say, that’s what-

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: … Wendy and I, our heart is, is that we want parents to know that they’re not alone in that.

Wendy: Yes.

Amber: And they do not have to feel shame and condemnation, and that-

Wendy: Right.

Amber: … there is hope. There are-

Jim: Yeah.

Amber: … things that we can do and that the Lord does transform us.

Jim: Amber-

Wendy: Yes.

Jim: … tell me about the two trigger types, I guess.

Amber: Well, there are internal triggers and there are external triggers. And both of those triggers are, you know, situations that can catch us off guard, but it, it’s helpful to understand, why am I feeling this way? And th- it can be things that are external, like I haven’t gotten enough sleep, or the house is a mess, or we’re just running late. But it could be the internal things as well. You know, I find that f- many times, my anger stemmed from, just, loneliness, and not feeling like a capable mom, like I didn’t know what I was doing.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: Um, it could be even, you know, issues in your marriage, that then they spill out onto our children. So, there are many different things that can impact us, and it’s helpful to identify them. Because if we are unaware of why we’re even, you know, reacting this way, it’s difficult to see how can I move forward in a better direction.

Jim: So, one of yours-

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: … that was mentioned in the book is disobedience of your children. And I-

Amber: Yes.

Jim: … most parents would say, “Yeah, that one doesn’t sit well with me either.”

Wendy: That’s a trigger.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But it was a trigger, which may be a little more depth to that, I guess. So, h- how was that a more serious trigger for you?

Amber: Well, so for… You know, when my kids would disobey, and I think a lot of parents feel this way, we go into parenting thinking our kids, naturally, are going to know that they need to obey us. I’m the authority figure, and so they’re going to listen, and they’re going to be compliant. And then when they’re not, I felt like I was a victim. I was always in this place of, “They’re doing this to me.” And I had to shift and realize, “No, they’re immature. They have not figured this out yet. And their disobedience is, it is human nature. It’s normal.” It’s not a benchmark of my parenting. Um, it is really an opportunity, now, for me to s- to help them through their disobedience toward maturity. And also, you know, when my kids are disobedient, I’m really seeing that they’re sinning against God. They’re not sinning against me. And so now I have the privilege, I get to-

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: … help them, correct them lovingly, in the right direction, right?

Jim: Yeah.

Amber: It’s, it’s not personal.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: I’m laughing, ’cause it makes total sense.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: (laughing) But it is hard to live in.

Amber: It’s hard to do.

Jim: I mean, when you’re feeling that-

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: Wendy, h- how does a mom, uh, make that adjustment for her expectations (laughing) when it comes to dis-

Wendy: Right.

Jim: … “Okay, my child’s just expressing his natural inclination to become independent. And therefore, I will react in calmness and love.”

Amber: (laughing)

Wendy: Well, you know, in the triggered moment, if you haven’t prepared for it-

Jim: Yeah (laughs).

Amber: That’s right.

Wendy: … you’re not going to.

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: You’re gonna respond in your flesh rather than in the spirit. You have to prepare the spirit. And sometimes also prepare words.

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: Um, and one-

Amber: Right.

Wendy: … of the things that we say in this… well, a couple things. Amber, in many of her chapters, an- and the book is laid out with 30 short chapters where we just take common triggers. And in many of Amber’s chapters, she reminds us these triggers are opportunities.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: And if we don’t ready ourself to see them as an opportunity, we’re going to respond wrong when they respond wrong. But if we’re prepared, we can respond right when they do wrong, and we can invite them into maturity with us. But one of the things that I say in it is you need to figure out what you mean to say before you say something mean.

Jim: (laughs)

Wendy: ‘Cause so often, we’re taken by surprise.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Ouch.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: Because they got out of bed for the umpteenth time-

Jim: Uh-huh.

Wendy: … when we’ve tucked ’em in l- lovingly, gently, and we’re exhausted. But if we can look back and say, “Oh, that always takes me by surprise,” okay, what am I gonna start doing differently? And we can prepare what we mean to say, gentle, loving, maybe firm-

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Sure.

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: … but we can be prepared. And if we’re not prepared, that means we’re probably not gonna see those triggers-

John: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: … as opportunities. Instead, we’re going to be triggered (laughs).

Jim: Yeah.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: Exactly.

Amber: Yeah.

John: So, so, one of the things you’re saying is that we’re not supposed to be the rule-keepers for our kids, we’re not supposed to make sure they follow the rules, I think you use the analogy of coaching?

Jim: Uh, is that what they’re saying?

Wendy: Yes.

Jim: (laughs)

Amber: Well, guides. And guides.

Wendy: But coaches do have rules too. Yeah, but, uh-

Amber: And guides.

Wendy: … there is a-

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: … there is an order to things. I think that the tendency, sometimes, is to discipline our children as though that’s going to teach them.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: But there needs to be discipleship, and there needs to be-

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: … training. So, Amber-

Amber: That’s the key.

Wendy: … starts the book off, really, talking with that coaching model.

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: So-

Amber: I, I felt for a long time I needed to fix my kids. And I realized pretty quickly that I get to guide them toward maturity. Whether it’s personal development maturity or spiritual maturity. And so, really, looking at myself as mom as a coach and saying, “Okay, let me evaluate what’s going on here. When you’re disobeying me, what’s really happening?”

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: And then, s- getting to the root of that, and then setting up opportunities for them to practice-

Wendy: Right.

Amber: … outside of conflict. Okay, so you are supposed to come to the dinner table, you know, in a timely manner. It’s a simple request, right? Or, you know, get to the car on time with your shoes actually tied.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

John: (laughs)

Amber: You know, whatever the case may be-

Jim: Are you talking to me? (laughs)

Wendy: (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Amber: Jim, how are your shoes looking today?

Jim: Slip-ons.

John: (laughs)

Amber: Okay, perfect. Yes, winning. Yeah, sometimes that’s all w… And that’s part of the evaluation, honestly.

Wendy: Yeah, sometimes we can do those.

Amber: Sometimes we just need to get practical.

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: Could we just, you know, maybe be- buy some slip-ons? But practicing these things with them-

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: … so that they’re not caught off guard by our anger because of our expectations when we haven’t done the front work to really work with them in whatever the disobedience is that, you know… or the issue or the trigger ahead of time.

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: And to plan ahead.

Wendy: Yep.

Jim: An-

Wendy: So, we’re planning, uh, we call them parenting scripts. When we’re not triggered, how am I going to behave when w- it’s time to leave the park and the kids are melting down? Okay, I’m gonna be prepared with that next time. So, I mean, that was a scenario-

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: … for my family, with three boys when they were young. And we went to the park a lot, and all of the wonderful expectations would just evaporate-

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: … into a puddle of tears when the fun time was over. So-

John: Yeah, “Time to go home.”

Wendy: … I, I went back to coach- coaching the kids. And-

Amber: Hmm.

Wendy: … we had to leave a park because of a meltdown, and the next time we went, we got there and I said, “Hey guys, we’re gonna start to play, but I’m gonna give you a heads-up. In about 15, 20 minutes, I’m gonna tell you it’s time to leave, and we’re gonna practice leaving. And if it goes well, we’ll come back for a couple more hours (laughing).” And so, we did this, and we did it a couple of times, and it was back to just training-

Jim: Wow. So let me get this right.

Wendy: … to do it right.

Jim: So, you practiced leaving-

Amber: Yes.

Jim: … and because they obeyed-

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: … then you went back to th-

Wendy: And had a great time.

Jim: I mean, you just stayed at the park?

Wendy: And then when it was really-

Jim: Oh, that’s good.

Wendy: … time to leave, say, “You guys already nailed this.”

John: Genius.

Jim: That’s clever.

John: Yeah.

Jim: Yeah, that’s clever.

Amber: It’s like a game now.

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: It’s fun.

Jim: So, let me ask you this question. It’s kind of the theological question, th- given this irritates all of us as parents-

Wendy: Right.

Jim: … why didn’t the Lord just structure kids to obey us parents, kind of blindly? That would’ve been a lot easier, Lord.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: Mm-hmm. Well…

Jim: (laughs)

Amber: (laughs)

Wendy: Well, I know that He cares m-

Amber: … that may be a question for the Lord.

Wendy: … so much about our sanctification.

Amber: Yes, it’s to refine us.

Wendy: And we think of their growing and maturity as their sanctification.

Amber: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Wendy: But I, I can just see-

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: … every mom and dad on the other side of this broadcast nodding their heads, going, “Yep, it’s my sanctification that the Lord’s after here.”

Jim: Isn’t that what’s at work-

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: … the whole time?

Wendy: Isn’t it, though?

Jim: For the child and for the parent.

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: For the child and for the parent.

John: Mm-hmm.

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: But I would say for the parent and then for the child.

Amber: Because, Jim-

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: (laughs)

Amber: … you know, we, we want them to obey, but God o… I realized this early on when my kids were not doing what I wanted them to do, uh, was that God wanted me to obey first.

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: And my obedience looked like not losing my temper, not being quick to anger, being slow to speak, right?

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: Quieting contention, becoming more of a peacemaker myself. Really, just, A- Amber, just stop being rude to your child.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: Just because they’re being rude to you, you don’t need to dish it back to them. And so-

Jim: (laughs)

Amber: … it had to start with me (laughs), you know, I had to get that self-control activated, you know, through the Holy Spirit, and work on myself first. It was the log in my eye before I started working on the speck in my child’s.

Wendy: Right.

Amber: And that was what God was after.

Jim: What? That even applies in parenting?

Amber: It does.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Oh.

John: (laughs)

Amber: I’ll tell you what. I’ll tell you what (laughs).

Jim: No, it’s so good. And you are teaching the child how to be an adult some day.

Amber: That’s right.

Wendy: Yeah, absolutely.

Jim: Right? You’re giving them that k- kinda the fruit of the spirit, which is-

Wendy: Yes.

Jim: … incredibly important.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, Wendy, let me ask you this. With the, kinda the strict, I, I would say discipline orientation of Scripture. You know-

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … spare the rod, spoil the kid, that kinda thing.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: Um, what do you see in the Bible about responding to children with that gentleness so that they can come… I’ll give you an example. A good friend of mine in South Africa, D- Donny van den Haever, who started Focus South Africa, actually-

Amber: Nice.

Jim: … I used to spend a lotta time with their family, always stay at their home. They had four children. The youngest was a little boy, Rudy.

Amber: (laughs)

Jim: And Rudy would get into trouble with the sisters. And he’d sit in a chair an-, Donny, and say, “Rudy, come, son. Come here, son. Tell me, what is frustrating you right now?

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: Why are your sisters so upset with you?

Amber: That’s right. Yeah. Right.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: What have you done?” (laughs)

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: You know, what you’re saying reminds me of Christ.

Jim: Right.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: And so, that would be my answer, is we can take scriptures of admonition on how we are to parent, with the rod or a number of others, and if we don’t consider the Scripture through the lens of Christ’s example, or even God the Father, of that wayward people, those wayward kids-

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: … the Israelites in the desert, if we don’t consider how God parents, those scriptures are dangerous.

Jim: Well, here’s th- here’s the outcome question for you. You know, at the end a… And we, we’ve counseled many parents that have been in this situation, if you only concentrated on the outcome on behavior-

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … most likely, you will have missed developing their heart-

Wendy: Their heart.

Jim: … for God.

Amber: Ooh, that’s so true.

Jim: I- in terms of an over-emphasis.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: You have to do both. You don’t disregard either. And it’s kinda like anything, when you’re out of kilter one way or the other, yo- you get a bad outcome.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So, it’s that consistency of boundaries-

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: Yes.

Jim: … but then doing it with the love of God.

Wendy: Well, and it’s back to that same conversation of you disciple first and then you discipline. Discipling is the heart.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: Disciplining is the behavior. But always go back-

Jim: Yeah, as… Yeah.

Wendy: … to the discipleship.

John: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guests are Amber Lia and Wendy Speake. And we’re talking about their terrific book Triggers: Exchanging Parents’ Angry Reactions for Gentle Biblical Responses. Get a copy of that when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459, or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Wendy, you learned, uh, a parenting concept at a swim class.

Wendy: (laughs)

Jim: The only thing I learned at that (laughs) swim class was starfish. Starfish.

John: (laughs)

Wendy: (laughs)

Jim: (laughing)

Amber: I would like to see that, Jim.

Jim: Which is a great concept for survival.

John: (laughs)

Wendy: Yes, yes.

Jim: But, starfish.

Wendy: This is survival too.

Jim: … wha- what did you learn?

Wendy: Okay, so my children w- went to, you know, toddler swim classes.

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: And, um, my oldest son had a swim teacher that he had never had before, and the kids kept coming off the side of the wall and sinking. So, not a small thing. Like, this is a dangerous thing, and there needs to be a, you know, a lesson learned, “Stay on the wall if I’m not with you. I’m teaching your little brother right now.” But out he came from the wall, and she’d scoop him up, look him in the eye, and say, “Uh-oh.” And I remember being, you know, on the bench watching this, thinking, “Well, uh-oh?

Jim: (laughs)

Amber: (laughs)

Wendy: Uh-oh? Uh-oh’s not gonna work with my strong-willed kid. You give him a lecture, sister.” And the truth is, my son looked her in the eye and stayed on the wall after that.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

John: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: And I started applying uh-oh instead of the lecture.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Oh, wow.

Wendy: Did I already teach how they should X, Y, or Z? Did I do the discipleship? Did I do the training? Did I give the lecture? I have. Do they know right from wrong?

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: Yes, they do. So, what’s more respectful? To drone on and on about what they should or should not do, or to remind them that they know?

Jim: (laughing) That’s good.

Wendy: And if I don’t fill the space with my incessant nagging, guess what’s more likely to happen? Conviction in their little hearts, “Oh, that was wrong.” Wh-

Jim: And it’s a lot easier, “Uh-oh.”

Wendy: It’s so much easier.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: (laughs)

Wendy: And I stay calm.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: And they stay calm.

Jim: Okay-

Wendy: And they get to say, “Oh, yeah, that wasn’t smart.”

Jim: … but that old adage, you know, insanity defined is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

Wendy: Yes.

Jim: Right? So, I mean, that is smart, just try something different, a little lighter.

Wendy: Right.

Jim: Especially age appropriate.

Wendy: Right.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: You know, a three-year-old probably understands uh-oh better than the professorial lecture (laughs).

Amber: Works on teens, too, I think. (laughs).

Wendy: Well, and what are, what are we taking back? And I-

Amber: Yeah, works on teens.

Wendy: … actually, it does work on teens.

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: And also, how gracious-

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: … it is to a child, even as they transition into adulthood, to acknowledge, “Whoa, that didn’t work.”

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: With compassion.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, let me ask you, Wendy, th-, uh, there’s, I think, three things that you encourage moms, and really, dads, too, to keep in mind when their children start to complain.

John: Mm-hmm. Oh, boy.

Jim: Oh, this is a good one.

John: (laughs)

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Complaining is like their number one job.

Wendy: Yeah. Um, well, you know, even though they are things that our children are doing, even if it’s an external trigger, as we call it, the question is an internal one. Why is this bothering me?

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: And am I going to complain about their complaining and think that my complaining is going to help them learn not to complain? What if there are other things that I can do when they’re not in the heat of the complaint? Well, we can circle back to Scripture. But one of the things that I list there is often parents use Scripture more like a hammer than a scalpel. We, in that triggered moment, we say, “Well, you know what God’s Word says in Philippians. It says that you should not be-”

Amber: Like a dagger, even, instead of a scalpel. (laughing).

Wendy: Or a dagger.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: That soun- that sounds very good to me.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: (laughs)

Wendy: You know, God’s Word says-

John: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: … that you shouldn’t complain.

Jim: Okay.

Wendy: God’s Word says that you should honor your parents and it’s gonna go well with you. How’s it going for you right now, son? Right? (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Wendy: As though that’s gonna get to their heart.

Amber: The tone, ooh.

John: That’s really good role-playing, ’cause you’ve never done that.

Amber: No.

Wendy: No, no, no, no, no. I’ve just-

Jim: I’m gonna go hide under a rock.

Wendy: … I’ve heard, uh, that, that family-

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: You’re good.

Wendy: … at Walmart, I’m just quoting them.

Jim: Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy: Um, and yet-

Jim: Wow.

Wendy: … if you can wait until you’re not triggered and they’re calmer, and circle back and say, “Hey, you know, I’ve been thinking of, about God’s Word actually talks about the issue we had earlier today. So, I’m thinking about what it looks like in my life. What would it look like to not complain when your brother does that to you?”

Jim: Right. And just to concisely put that, you said, number one, behave right, even when they behave wrong.

Wendy: Behave right when they behave wrong.

Jim: (laughing) You know, which, another way you would say it is-

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: … be the adult in the room, ’cause you are.

Wendy: That’s right. Because you are.

Jim: (laughs)

Wendy: I love it (laughing), be the adult in the room because you are.

Jim: That is such a tough one, though. I mean, I-

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: … have done that. I mean, I’m down there in the nitty-gritty-

Wendy: Yes.

Jim: … kinda the… What’s the old analogy when you get in the pig pen-

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: … with the p- the pigs?

Wendy: Yes.

Jim: You get dirty.

Wendy: You do.

Jim: I mean, parents just have an amazing ability to act like children (laughs)-

Amber: We do, and-

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: … when we get into it, like, “Do it because I told you to do it.”

Amber: Yep.

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: And when the kids are, you know, complaining, arguing, whining, what was helpful for me to understand is that they’re often feeling powerless.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: And so, when we move to asking them some questions, like, again, like you were saying, Jim, like, “Tell me, why are you feeling this way? What’s going on?”

Jim: Yeah, that’s really good.

Amber: It just puts it right back into, I’m their guide, I’m their coach. I get… I don’t have to fix this, I can guide them toward really understanding what their feelings are. And they feel less need to whine and complain because they know that Mom’s gonna listen.

Jim: Well, and you’re really helping them later in life to be a good husband, a good, uh, wife. ‘Cause communication’s the core thing in human, you know, problems.

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: A good friend, a good employee, a good student.

Jim: Yeah, totally.

Wendy: (laughs)

Jim: It fits everything. Hey, Amber, you… I love this story, I wanna get this in. But yo- you bought a bouncy house, which created-

Amber: Yes. Oh, yeah.

Jim: … some conflict with the boys. How could that happen?

Amber: Oh, man, why is that we do something-

Jim: (laughs)

Amber: … fun for them, and then it goes haywire, right?

John: (laughs)

Wendy: Right.

Jim: Guaranteed.

Amber: Every parent’s resonating with that.

John: Yeah.

Amber: I thought this was gonna be a fun trip-

Wendy: It’s back to that same idea.

Amber: … and now, I wish we had never left, right?

Jim: Right, exactly.

Amber: So-

Wendy: … of being the victim, right?

Amber: Yeah. So-

Wendy: That’s why we feel like the victim, is-

Amber: Yep.

Wendy: … do you not recognize what I just did for you?

Amber: Right. So then, they’re in the bouncy house, and the whole time-

Jim: (laughs)

Amber: … they’re arguing and fighting with one another, just sibling rivalry at its finest. Who gets to make up the game we’re gonna play? Was that knee to the face truly and accident or did they do that on purpose? You know, who has to put this thing away? So, it was just like one trigger after another, and so I learned quickly that, first of all, their arguing and fighting with one another, s- their sibling rivalry is so human nature. Again-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Amber: … it wasn’t a reflection of me, and I get the opportunity now to help them sort through this sibling rivalry. And so I would say to them, “You know what? I think this is something you can work out, and I’m confident that you’ll be able to figure out who gets to take turns, how you’re gonna do it.” So, instead of trying to solve it for them, instead of just moving quick to punishment, or saying, “Forget it, we’re just gonna put the bouncy away,” right, I wanna teach them, how do I actually learn to cooperate with my sibling? And I don’t wanna feed that to them all the time. I say to them, “I believe that you guys are gonna work this out, and I can’t wait to see what you’re gonna do to come up with a good plan to take good turns with each other.”

Jim: You know, tha-

Wendy: How respectful is that?

Jim: … tha… No, that’s really good.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And I think I, I did not do that well. I jumped in and solved the problem-

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: … just so I would have peace and tranquility.

John: Mm-hmm.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: But what a great concept, to teach and empower your children-

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … to do the-

Amber: Yes.

Jim: … problem-solving.

Amber: It’s so good for them.

Wendy: I agree.

Amber: Because now, what’s so great is my oldest is 17, and at night, um, I’m exhausted, but I force myself awake because that’s when his mind unlocks-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Amber: … and he wants to debrief his day.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: And he will come in, and I’ll come in to pray with him, and he’ll say, “Mom, this happened today, and that happened today. And I’m really feeling X, Y, Z-

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: … and I think it’s because of this.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Amber: And so, will you pray about that with me?” And I’m like, “Yes, Ollie, let’s pray together about that.” But I know… And so, I hope that parents with young, um, kids are listening to this, that I didn’t know that was gonna be the fruit-

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: … 10 years later.

Jim: Right.

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: But I get it, to see it now.

John: Yeah.

Amber: And I hope they’ll be encouraged that it, you’re gonna be watering the seeds of empathy, and kindness, and the fruit of the spirit towards your children in these triggered moments. Be faithful, because you are shaping their hearts.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: You are allowing them to learn, how do I process my emotions well? How do I navigate these sibling relationships so that as they grow older, they become really expert in that? And it’s a beautiful thing to see and to partner with your older kids in.

John: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: Yeah, that’s beautiful.

Jim: Which, Wendy, was that last point, act like a child of God.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: That was your point three of those three points.

Wendy: Yes.

Amber: That’s right.

Wendy: Yes.

Jim: And tha- that’s such a beautiful reminder. We’ve run out of time today.

Wendy: What?

Jim: But let’s hang on.

Amber: Time flies.

Wendy: (laughing)

John: (laughs)

Jim: I mean, we have scratched the surface of this.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: There’s so much more work we can do-

Wendy: Yes.

Amber: Yes, there is.

Jim: … to perfect our parenting skills. And I hope you have enjoyed this. I mean, this has been so good to have Amber and Wendy with us, and to talk about their book Triggers. Uh, we wanna get this into your hands, so if you can make a gift of any amount, uh, we’ll send it to ya as our way of saying thank you. The best way to do that, a way that John, and Dena, and Jean, and I support Focus is monthly.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: If you can do that, that really helps, ’cause it evens out the budget for the whole year. And we can count on that, uh, revenue, then, to do the things in marriage, and parenting, and counseling, and all the things that we have to budget for. So, be a part of the ministry. Uh, this accrues to your account, not ours. I love a donor couple I called one time to thank, and they said, “Jim, we just expect you to run Focus effectively and efficiently so we can do ministry through it.”

Amber: No pressure (laughing).

Wendy: Wow.

Jim: Isn’t that awesome?

Wendy: What a charge.

Amber: But that’s amazing. That’s amazing.

Jim: It’s a terrific way to look at this.

Amber: Yeah, it’s great.

Jim: You know, you’re working hard, you send some of that to Focus to do kingdom work.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: We’re gonna do it as effectively and efficiently as possible. But again, that ministry accrues to your account, I believe, in the Lord’s eyes. So, thank you for joining us.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

John: Yeah, donate today, uh, a monthly gift if you’re able, or if you can’t do that, a one-time gift of any amount is deeply appreciated. Uh, those contributions help us reach parents around the world, so donate today. And to hear more of our Best of 2024 shows, we’ve got all of those available for you. It’s our Best of 2024 audio collection. It’s free, and it’s at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And as always, you can also call us if you have any questions or you want to make your contribution over the phone. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

Day Two

Amber Lia: You can be exhausted and still do the good parenting. You know, be exhausted if you must, but you can still be a great mom. And the Lord will help you in any season that you’re in, even in this weary season.

John Fuller: Well, that’s some great encouragement from Amber Lia, and she was with us earlier this year to talk about facing parental triggers. And, uh, she was joined by her friend and co-author, Wendy Speake. They’re back because so many of you responded. It was one of our top programs from 2024. It’s back to give you a chance to hear it again. And, uh, we’re so glad you’ve joined us. I’m John Fuller, and this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

Jim Daly: In the first half of this conversation, uh, we talked about handling disobedience without losing your temper, and dealing with some of those other triggers. You can go back and listen to yesterday’s show if you missed it. Uh, we’re reminded in James 1:19, “Let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger.” And that is so hard to do. But with God’s help, even when our buttons get pushed, we can respond with grace. And it’s especially difficult in the parenting mode.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, one mom was deeply impacted by what Amber and Wendy shared, uh, earlier this year. She said, “This is really helpful, even with an 18-year-old. And I needed to hear the truth that I can grow and change at any age. Thank you.”

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Wow, that’s a, a great statement. I’m excited to share this for all of us parents again today.

John: Yeah, it, it not only applies to parents of younger children, I would say 18 plus.

Jim: (laughs)

John: It’s also very helpful. (laughs)

Jim: You’re living the dream.

John: We all are, yeah.

Jim: (laughs)

John: So Amber Lia and Wendy Speake are bloggers, speakers. They’re moms. They have boys. Uh, they’ve been through a lot together, and they’ve written a terrific book called Triggers: Exchanging Parents’ Angry Reactions for Gentle, Biblical Responses. Get a copy of the book from us here at the ministry. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459. Or of course, we’ll have details at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Let’s go ahead and listen in to this Best of 2024 presentation.

Jim: Hey, Amber, let me ask you this. Yesterday, we did talk about external triggers, and we’re gonna talk about some internal ones today, maybe a little more. Uh, remind the listeners what the external triggers are, and then what the internal triggers can be.

Amber: Yeah, so there are a combination of things that can set us off. And sometimes they are internal things where it really has more to do with me. And then the external triggers are things that really have more to do with them. Um, or, you know, the messy house, for example. That sort of example trigger. But the internal ones are tricky because, man, that’s kinda more on me. I can’t really blame my kids for that stuff.

Jim: And those are kind of the learned things that you picked up-

Amber: Absolutely.

Jim: … probably growing up yourself.

Amber: Yeah, there’s some generational patterns there for sure.

Jim: One of the things that is so difficult is when you’re talking to a counselor, and they say, “Well, the next time he says that or she says that, try this. Say, ‘Honey. Like, I think I’m hearing you. But where does this come from? Why do you feel that way?’” And you’re going, “Oh, that’d be brilliant.” Then when it happens, you’re going, “What are you thinking about? Why are you saying that to me?”

Amber: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: “It’s your fault.”

Amber: I think it’s important to-

Jim: I mean, it always sounds good.

Amber: It’s good to practice outside of conflict.

Jim: (laughs)

Wendy Speake: Yes, absolutely.

Amber: That’s what I t- that’s what I’m a-

Jim: That’s the point.

Amber: … firm believer in that. Practice outside of times of conflict.

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: Yes.

Amber: You know, and especially because in any scenario, in any trigger, our kids, ah, have heightened emotion. Now, I don’t respond well, nor am I super receptive when I am in a place of heightened emotion as an adult. So to expect that my kids are going to be really receptive and be able to think logically when they’re highly emotional because they’re immature is also difficult. So if I’m saying, “Well, they’re not listening to me,” sometimes it’s because my expectation is that they’re like a peer of mine, and that when I’m talking, they’re naturally going to listen to me and affirm me. And that’s the victimization piece of motherhood that really got me into a lot of trouble for a long time.

Jim: Wow.

Wendy: Thank you for sharing that.

Amber: And so I had to say-

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: I bet you anything that’s resonating with lots of listeners.

Amber: Yeah, I had to say, “This isn’t really about me. Uh, I’m still their coach. I’m still their guide, and I get to offer them an opportunity to be aware and to be more mature in this.” And what does it look like to listen to me? You know, and I’ll tell my kids, “Hey, could you just repeat what I said, ’cause I’m, I’m distracted too sometimes. You look like you might be a little bit distracted. Could you just repeat what I ask so we’re on the same page?”

Jim: It’s such good coaching, though. That’s the thing that’s so bizarre, that these, thinking through your responses and being ahead of the curve, and responding with an adult kind of presence rather than a childlike wounded heart, they’re all the right things to do. And I, I mean, for the life of me, we don’t do it consistently as parents. We fall back into this trench of childlike combat with them.

Amber: Yes.

Jim: Like, they suck us back into their-

Amber: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: … field of, of-

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: … battle. (laughs) And we’re going-

Amber: And Jim, I think it’s because we get overwhelmed with how many things trigger us all at once.

Jim: That’s could be.

Amber: And so I often remind myself, “Amber, there’s 10 things right now that maybe are overwhelming you. Overwhelm is a choice, so let’s take one thing at a time.”

Jim: Huh.

Amber: And you know, what is the thing that’s most prominent that I see as problematic in our home? What is really robbing my peace the most?

Jim: Boy, that’s good inventory.

Amber: And once I’ve evaluated that, I go, “Okay, what can I do to create the most peace in this specific trigger?” And I tell people all the time, “It’s not cliché to just pray, ‘God, I don’t even know what to do about this right now. But I trust that You give wisdom. You promise that you give wisdom generously.”

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: “Will You help me come up with a creative way to address this trigger with my child?” And you know, Wendy and I give lots of suggestions in our books, but never underestimate that God is at the ready to help you.

Jim: So Wendy, uh, a moment ago, we talked about messiness. This happens to be one of your triggers.

Wendy: Yes.

Jim: I’m not pouncing on you. But, uh-

Wendy: Oh, yeah.

Jim: … describe the battle of messy, and you know, we’ve done shows on this with Kathi Lipp and Jean actually came to that one.

Wendy: Right.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Unfortunately, I made the mistake of not telling her what the topic was-

Wendy: (laughs)

Jim: … until she arrived.

Wendy: “Are you saying I’m a mess maker?”

Jim: All of a sudden-

John: It was a little bit of a trap.

Jim: No, no, all of a sudden, she goes, “Oh, now I know why you invited me.” (laughing) It was not my best day.

Wendy: “I see why I’m here.”

Jim: But, uh, but talk about the messiness issue-

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: And I think one of the big things with that is how that plays on a woman’s sense of worth, self-worth. Like, “If I can’t keep a house really clean-”

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: “… there’s something wrong with me.”

Wendy: Right.

Jim: But that, that’s really the enemy.

Wendy: That’s really interesting. It was just yesterday, my husband said to me, “Um, we haven’t had a cleaning clew come through in a very long time. If you send me that contact information, I’ll reach out to them.” What he was saying was, “I’d like to bless you.”

Jim: Oh, good, he wasn’t saying, “The house is so dirty we need a c- a crew.”

Wendy: Well, I’ll tell you what I heard.

Amber: Could have been taken the wrong way, right?

Wendy: What I h- and that is what I… That’s how I took it, is-

Jim: (laughs) I wouldn’t even go that way.

Wendy: Well, I wou- I didn’t respond in anger, but I felt shame.

Jim: Yeah, wow. I get it.

Wendy: But I’m, I’m self-aware enough to say, “What is this feeling that I feel?”

John: Yeah.

Wendy: “Oh, he’s calling me out on that I’m not keep-…” And I s- “My house is a wreck right now.”

Jim: (laughs)

Wendy: We have two kids that just launched from the house.

Jim: Right.

Wendy: And I went to a place of shame. Luckily, I didn’t respond in anger or shame, but I recognized it. And the more you practice understanding your internal triggers, the better you’re gonna get at slowing down before you react.

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: Um, so for me, yes, having a clean house allows me to be more peaceful. And I know it’s a different topic, but as I think about it, I sometimes think of Mary and Martha. How do I have a Mary heart in a messy house? Be-

Jim: In a Martha world.

Wendy: Right.

Jim: Yeah, that’s good.

Wendy: Because Martha would be so busy cleaning that when her children spill milk, how is she going to respond? She’s going to be respond like she did to Mary. I don’t want to respond like Martha. I want to respond like Mary. So can I start my day like Mary so that when I go into the work that Martha knows must be a priority, I still have a Mary heart in my home?

Amber: And sometimes we just need to say, “Okay, I’ve been doing this thing around the house for so long that I have forgotten that I have these children that I actually am supposed to be training and helping them become these productive adults themselves someday?”

Wendy: Right.

Amber: “This is something I could actually help-”

Wendy: Right.

Amber: “… coach my child to be doing.”

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: And really evaluating that situation and go, “Okay,” you know-

Wendy: Not in the moment.

Amber: No, no.

Wendy: Not in the moment. (laughs)

Amber: Outside of conflict, always. Not when we’re feeling highly emotional. But just say, “Hey kids, you know, I get to show you how to do this outside-”

Jim: Let me ask you about that.

Wendy: Yeah. (laughs)

Jim: ‘Cause I think, you know, my observation, again, all of us, not just moms. Dads have the same issue in a different way, I think. But, you know, we take a sense of self-worth for providing-

Wendy: Right.

Jim: For a mom, it’s providing this kind of environment.

Wendy: Nurturing environment that’s clean.

Jim: For being on top of it.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: That I’m taking care of there needs.

Amber: Sure.

Jim: Such as their laundry, their food. And you can actually, I think, prevent the natural good thing, which is have the children join you in that.

Amber: Right.

Wendy: Sure.

Jim: Jean was great. She had the boys start doing their laundry at like 10.

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: That’s amazing. Good for her.

Jim: I mean, we did have a few pink shirts-

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … that came out of that. (laughing)

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: But, hey, they learned pretty quickly.

Amber: That’s right.

Jim: But I thought it was pretty impressive.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: I’d see them down there as 10, 11-year-olds.

Amber: That’s wonderful.

Jim: You know, unfortunately getting in my way to get my own stuff done. But-

Wendy: But there are also triggers that are beyond just training our kids. It could just be, “Hey, I feel out of control. It’s a little OCD, but I really need things to be more orderly-”

Amber: Sure.

Wendy: “… than maybe the rest of the family members.” So it’s not so much that they’re not prepared to help, but it could be an internal me problem-

Jim: Right.

Wendy: … if I’m not aware of it.

Jim: Well, especially if it’s eating at you.

Wendy: If it’s eating…Well-

Jim: I mean, that’s like clear sign.

Amber: Signal.

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: And when you are stressed, all it takes is the straw the breaks the mama’s back, right?

Jim: (laughs) Yeah.

Wendy: The spilled milk. And the energy that comes o- out of you-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: … when the milk spills isn’t a milk-spill level.

Jim: Right.

Wendy: It is a monumental, “I cannot cope with life. Why is that l- because my house is a wreck.” So where does it fit in my day? And then, are there times where I’m just available to the kids?

Amber: Yeah, seasons.

Wendy: Come what may.

Amber: There’s seasons.

Wendy: You know?

Jim: Well, that’s, that’s a good observation skill to develop as a mom and a dad. But when the response is disproportionate to the crime-

Amber: Right.

Jim: (laughs)

Amber: Let’s consider that. What are we gonna do about it?

Jim: That is a symbol to say, “Okay, well, what’s going on with me?”

Amber: Mm-hmm.

John: Yeah.

Amber: Right.

Jim: The internal trigger.

Wendy: Yes.

Amber: My angry reaction’s a 10, and this situation is a three.

Jim: Yeah. (laughs)

Wendy: Right.

Amber: So let’s pull that back. (laughs)

Jim: There is a bit of self-awareness in that. Uh, I think, Amber, you share in the book about being blindsided in motherhood by exhaustion.

Amber: Oh, yeah.

Jim: So this is a really good one. ‘Cause I think moms generally, especially with younger kids-

Amber: Right.

Jim: … are so exhausted.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: It’s just busy.

Amber: It is.

Jim: It’s hard to keep up with everything.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: And you’re tending the them, especially when they’re younger. Like, even feeding them in the middle of the night.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: Right, you have a story, I think.

Jim: Um-

Amber: And we know it’s a high privilege. We know it’s a high privilege. We love our children. We wanted them. But, you know, Oliver, my oldest son, when he was born, he had a lot of issues. He had colic, and he had reflux. And he did not sleep well. I mean, we hired sleep experts. We elevated the mattress. We did the swaddling and the vacuum. And, like, all the things. And none of it was all that effective. And that sorta ate away as a new mom-

Jim: Yeah.

Amber: … thinking, “Wow, I thought I was gonna be really good at this, and I can’t fix him.” And the exhaustion that Guy and I, my husband, Guy, and I felt, was like bone weariness. Because we went months and months and months. Oliver didn’t sleep through the night until he was like two or three years old. Like, for the first time solidly.

Wendy: (laughs)

Amber: And there were other kids in the picture by then too. So we just sort of operated all the time in a place of weariness.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: And I remember just pleading with the Lord. Like, “Lord, I don’t know what to do. I’m trying all of these methods to try to fix this situation.” And I remember very vividly rocking Oliver in the middle of the night once, and I just sensed the Lord say to me, “You know, Amber, I’m just gonna hold you-”

Jim: Huh.

Amber: “… all through the night while you hold Oliver.”

Jim: Wow.

Amber: “And I’m, I’m just gonna ask you to draw near to Me.” And I realized this wasn’t about getting the perfect night of sleep, this was about yielding to being perfected by the Lord and drawing near to Him and experiencing the sweetness of my Father drawing near to me in those moments. And so sometimes it’s not always about having this great resolution, um, it’s really just an opportunity to rely on the Lord. And that became a sweet season, and exhaustion doesn’t have to be because we’re not getting sleep at night. It is like you said, Jim, there’s just so many demands of us in this day and age.

Jim: Oh, yeah.

Amber: There’s a lot going on, and we can just be exhausted from mothering. Parenting is hard, you guys. If you’re listening, and you’re like, “Why is this so hard?” I just wanna acknowledge, parenting is exhausting.

Wendy: It is.

Jim: But it’s worth the journey.

Amber: It is worth the journey.

Jim: Totally.

Amber: It is so worth it. And, you know, as we lean on the Lord in our weariness, that was the other thing I had to tell myself. “Amber, you can be exhausted and still do the good parenting. You know, be exhausted if you must, but you can still be a great mom, and the Lord will help you in any season that you’re in, even in this weary season.”

John: Well, we hope you’re feeling a sense of, uh, refreshment and calm-

Wendy: (laughs)

John: … from our guests today now ’cause-

Wendy: He’s 17 now. I hope you’re sleeping.

Jim: We’re gonna get there.

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: (laughs)

John: … we have all been exhausted-

Amber: Yeah.

John: … in our parenting, and, uh, today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, our guests are, uh, Amber Lia and Wendy Speake. Um, they’ve been here before. We so enjoy having them. And, uh, they’re sharing from their hearts and experiences. I hope you’re getting encouraged. Uh, get a copy of their book, Triggers: Exchanging Parents’ Angry Reactions for Gentle, Biblical Responses. When you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Wendy, I don’t know why I keep starting with your triggers.

Amber: (laughs)

Jim: But there seems to be-

Wendy: There are so many, apparently.

Jim: There seems to be many here. (laughs)

Wendy: (laughs)

Jim: But another one that you talked about in the book was, uh, that being late.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: You know, for things, especially as a mom. I think dads, I think husbands can heap coals on this one. You know, ’cause we’re tick-tock. We’re going to be late again for church. “Honey, let’s go.” And we’ve got to learn how to help mom and wife m- you know, manage that, that phase of life that’s happening right then.

Amber: Right.

Jim: Speak to that idea of tardiness, if I can call it that, or just that perpetual lateness. Especially in phases of motherhood.

Wendy: Yeah, and I love that you talk about, you, the example of getting to church.

Jim: Yeah, that’s a classic.

Wendy: Because isn’t it like, I mean-

Amber: Ah.

Wendy: … the devil’s, like, loving it, right? (laughs)

Jim: A friend of mine told me about that. I’ve never experienced it. (laughs)

Amber: (laughs)

Wendy: Yeah, yeah. I mean, running late for toddlers at preschool or to the park and a play date is one thing.

Jim: Well, I’ll tell you. I mean, for us, we, our church, at that time was almost an hour’s drive each way. I mean, with-

Wendy: Yes.

Jim: … two and four-year-olds.

Amber: You gotta leave on time.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: You gotta leave before on time. (laughs)

Wendy: Yes, there you go.

Jim: So it, it, you know, we ended up having to change churches-

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: … getting closer to us. Because at that time in our life, we just couldn’t do it.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: It wasn’t happening.

Wendy: Well, you know, Amber and I haven’t talked about this, but we have the external triggers. We have the internal, and I think that if I were going back with Amber and rewriting it, I might set this up a little differently because every external one has an internal component.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: You know, what’s going on in me, right? And so when there is a trigger that we discover is common, I think there are two things we need to address. What’s going on in me, and what’s going on in our home. And so, when it comes to running late, Amber’s really good at, “What practically can I do to prepare? How can I loop the kids into this in an age-appropriate discussion when we’re not fueled up and amped up and struggling in a moment?”

Jim: Slip-on shoes. I’m telling you.

Amber: That’s the key.

Wendy: Slip-on shoes, yes.

Jim: (laughs) I don’t have to tie them.

Amber: The answer for everything.

Wendy: I’m not looking at the end of the table, but I hear that Jim still wears…

Jim: Yes. I haven’t grown out of them yet.

Amber: (laughs)

Wendy: But also, what’s going on in me and in this season, how can I cope better? Or, “Dad, what’s going on in you, and how could you help in a practical way in the home?”

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: Or, “How could you help diffuse rather than pour gasoline on the stress,” as you, tick-tock, you know, point to your wristwatch and rev the engine in the driveway, what could you do to help internally? What could you do to help externally? Could you get there early? Is there a coffee shop on the c- on the church campus? Can you make that part of your rhythm, that you’re gonna go for a donut first? I mean, can you build it in, being there early, so that there’s margin? And really-

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: You had me at donut.

Wendy: … I think if we were to have… (laughing)

Jim: I’m ready.

Wendy: I thought you were going to say, “You had me at margin.” Because if there’s one overarching help-

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: … in your triggers, margin-

Jim: Yeah, that’s good.

Wendy: … will help you.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: If you are exhausted, margin can look like not signing up for all the things. If you’re running late, margin is getting places. You know, adding in more time.

Jim: You know, I’m thinking about a season for us with Jean and I. I, I think we were stretched, and the boys were rambunctious. Yeah, I’m probably thinking in that seven, eight, nine, 10 zone.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: They’re still wonderfully pliable. They want to hang out with you. You know. (laughs)

Amber: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Jim: All that was still good. But I think it, you start thinking about the future when, when your sons or daughters look back, when they’re gone, off to college, or even married, and have their own family. What will they remember about growing up?

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: That is a great projection.

Amber: Yeah, that legacy.

Jim: You know, will it be positive?

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Or will they think, “Man, Mom was always angry.”

Wendy: Yeah, and let’s just take a moment to-

Amber: Breaks people’s hearts when they think about that sometimes.

Wendy: … yeah, acknowledge that.

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: If you’re listening right now, and it’s just bringing tears to your eyes because, “Man, I wish I could go back.”

Jim: Oh, yeah, a do over.

Wendy: “I wish I could go back.” You are not-

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: … too late-

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: … to be transformed and sanctified by the Lord.

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: And for it to have a generational impact. And I’m talking to you, Mom, who’s 78 and has grown kids and even grandkids.

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: You start availing yourself to the transforming, sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit, your kids and your grandkids will see it.

Amber: Well, and all we have is what’s in front of us. So I like to remind myself that the only reason that I really look back into the past and past behavior, failures, is if I know there’s something of value that’s going to help me move forward in the right direction. I don’t wanna keep looking over my shoulder and allowing it to be a place where Satan starts to mess with my mind in a place of condemnation. That doesn’t do me any good. I want it to be a Holy Spirit loving conviction to now, “What can I do next?” Because we stay in the pit, and we’re not going to be, you know, receiving the good things that God has for us moving forward, and how He’s going to shape us, um, in the next season that we’re in.

Jim: Yeah. You know, my observation on that is in a spiritual dynamic, God has given great capacity for children to forgive their parents.

Amber: They do. They’re very forgiving.

Wendy: Yes.

Jim: I think, it gives me tears-

Amber: It’s true.

Jim: … because I think it is a God-given thing.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: ‘Cause we are gonna make mistakes.

Amber: Yes.

Jim: And-

Wendy: And grownup children too.

Jim: Yeah, yeah.

Amber: Yes.

Wendy: Going back and speaking, I know it’s not as grownup as some of you, but I, uh, a year ago, reached out to my oldest son and very specifically said, “I recognize only now that X, Y, and Z was harmful-”

Jim: Right.

Wendy: “… to you.” When I responded this way, when I didn’t protect you that way. And I thought that he was going to say, “Mom, I forgive you.” He did not. He said, “Mom, I’m so proud of you.”

Jim: (laughs)

Amber: (laughs) Yeah.

Wendy: Beca- which, which shocked me. But how, how mature and loving and hopeful. He saw that there was something for me to learn, and he embraced me.

Jim: That’s powerful.

Amber: And, and I’ll tell you what, Jim. That’s a big-

Wendy: It is.

Jim: Yeah.

Amber: That’s a big part of what we hope parents will begin to understand, is that right in the moment when we’re triggered, we can stop and begin to model our growth. Like Wendy’s son just expressed the growth that he saw, the transformation in her.

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: How proud he was of her.

Jim: Yeah.

Amber: And that can happen all along the way, if we allow it to be a moment that’s modeling what it looks like to stop. You know, I’m starting to feel my anger rise, my body tense. And I can look at my child in that moment and say, “You know what, buddy? I’m starting to get upset, and I don’t want to say something wrong. I love you very much, and I need a minute to just take a breath and be calm, so that we can try again.”

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: Yeah.

Amber: Like, “I would like to try again with you. I know what I said just now wasn’t the tone I really wanted to to- to speak to you in. And I apologize for that. Can you just give me a minute?” And so even in the moment, modeling that. We don’t need to show up with our kids feeling like, “Oh, we’re perfect. We’ve got it all figured out.”

Jim: Yeah.

Amber: “We’re gonna plan all ahead.” Right in the moment of being triggered is the perfect time to even stop and model that for our kids.

Jim: Yeah, that’s good.

Amber: And, and they’re proud of us. They are forgiving of us, like Wendy said.

John: Yeah.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: They really are.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: It’s an amazing thing. Right at the end here, let me just ask a question on behalf of single parents. You know, we often, as we’re talking, we’re talking in the construct of a two-parent family. And people will contact us and say, “Hey, don’t forget about us.”

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: So this is, you know, one of those moments, I wanna ask that question about the single-parent mom particularly. And we know there’s many now, single-parent fathers out there too.

Amber: Yes.

Jim: But for those single-parent moms who are struggling to be everything, I mean, they’ve got so much guilt about-

Amber: Right.

Jim: … what’s been going on. You know, the fact that either, you know, maybe they’re, the husband’s left the home, whatever it might be.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Um, what can they do to apply some of these principles?

Amber: Well, and none of us are supposed to be everything to our child. They wouldn’t need their Savior if we were everything to them as moms.

Jim: That’s a great point right there.

Amber: And so we sometimes think we’re responsible to fill in all what, what we think are the gaps. And I think it’s encouraging for me to know that there’s some things I won’t be able to provide for my child. There’s some experiences they may not have, whether they’re, because it’s a single-family home or not. And that’s not up to me. God has a plan for them. And He is right there alongside me every step of the way. Whether it’s single parents or maybe even just parents that aren’t parenting on the same page. You know-

Jim: Well, or a dad that’s not engaged.

Amber: Yeah. Right.

Jim: How about that? She feels like a single-parent mom.

Amber: Totally, yeah.

Jim: Yeah.

Amber: And so in those moments too, it’s an opportunity, just say, “Okay, never underestimate the power and the influence that you do have.” And just rest in that. And trust that the Lord is gonna provide everything your child needs. Whether there’s a dad there in the picture or not. And Wendy was raised by a single mom.

Wendy: Yes.

Amber: And so she appreciates that.

Wendy: Yeah. Um, so my mother just passed away a couple weeks ago.

Jim: Oh.

Wendy: And I’ve been grieving with so much gratitude.

Jim: Huh.

Wendy: I am so grateful that she was mine and I was hers.

Jim: Yeah, wow.

Wendy: And, um, one of the things that my mom did exceptionally well was not doing what she couldn’t do. We didn’t go out to restaurants very often. If our budget was limited, she let us know and said, “Hey, we can either do this or that.” We had very few family vacations. But we had home-cooked meals. And we laughed watching The A Team-

Jim: (laughs)

Wendy: … on Thursday nights, I think it was.

Jim: That’ll get you going.

Wendy: Whatever that-

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Wendy: … primetime-

Jim: (laughs)

Wendy: … uh, lineup was. And we watched shows, and we laughed, and she tucked us in with tickles on our back. And I would go to sleep hearing her play the piano down the hall. She didn’t do it all.

Jim: Right.

Wendy: So I think I hear most often, “But I’m a single mom, and I have to do it all.” And I understand what you’re saying.

Jim: The feeling of that.

Amber: Yeah.

Wendy: Uh, well, and there are-

Amber: For sure.

Wendy: … everything that needs to be done has to be done by you. That is true. But you don’t have to do it all that you see being done.

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: They don’t need it all. They need you.

Jim: Yeah, and-

Wendy: And they need you.

Jim: And what you’re saying there is that environment that you’re setting is so much more important-

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … than getting all the things done.

Wendy: Yes.

Amber: Tone of your home.

Jim: And being hyper. It-

Wendy: Right.

Jim: Back to the Martha and Mary thing, really.

Wendy: That’s right.

Jim: It goes right back to that.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: This has been so good. Thanks for being with us on day two. If you missed day one, go get it. Uh, the app for the phone, or you can go to the website and hear the download that way. But, um, both days have been very, very strong, so thank you for being here.

Amber: You’re so welcome.

Wendy: Absolutely. Thank you.

Amber: Thank you, Jim.

Wendy: It helps us-

Amber: Thank you, John.

Wendy: … stay committed to-

Amber: Yeah, it does.

Jim: Yeah.

Wendy: … um, gentle responses with our children.

Amber: We’re in the journey.

Jim: Yeah.

Amber: We’re still in the journey too.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: And the thing is-

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: … by the time we kinda got this parenting thing down, oh-

Wendy: Yeah.

Jim: … they’re out.

Amber: (laughs)

Jim: They’re gone.

Amber: Things change, yeah.

Jim: And you’re going, “Lord, can I not do that one more time? I think I could do it really well.”

Wendy: Yes.

Amber: Yeah.

Jim: Like-

Amber: Second time around-

Jim: Yeah.

Amber: … I’ll be really good at it. (laughs)

Jim: We’re here to talk about how you could do it better the first time.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Well, I hope you learned a lot about how to get it right the first time through what Amber and Wendy shared. They are such an inspiration to us all. And we want to walk with you in your parenting journey here on Focus. One great next step would be The Seven Traits of Effective Parenting assessment. It’s a short, free quiz that will help you get an idea of your strengths and point out a few areas that you need to improve in. Uh, John will have the details on where to find that in just a minute. And if anger is something you struggle with, I recommend you get a copy of Amber and Wendy’s book, Triggers: Exchanging Parents’ Angry Reactions for Gentle, Biblical Responses. The book is a 31-day devotional that can help you make the changes you heard about today. When you make a monthly pledge of any amount to the ministry of Focus on the Family, we’ll send you a copy as our way of saying, “Thank you. Thank you for being a part of the ministry.” We so appreciate those of you who give monthly. It evens out the budget throughout the year. And if a monthly amount doesn’t work for you, we’ll send the book to you for a one-time gift. Just be part of what we’re doing here to help save lives.

John: Yeah, make your special gift and get your copy of Amber Lia and Wendy Speake’s book, Triggers: Exchanging Parents’ Angry Reactions for Gentle, Biblical Responses. Our number is 800-232-6469. 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Or look for that free parenting assessment and the book details at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And if you enjoyed this Best of 2024 show, I know you’ll want to hear more listener favorites, so check out our Best of 2024 audio collection. We’ve put together 18 terrific conversations and presentations completely free. Look for the link to our Best of 2024 audio collection at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And coming up next time, the spiritual benefits of pursuing physical fitness. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back, as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.