John Fuller: I’m John Fuller and on today’s “Focus on the Family” we’re going to examine the topic of kids and work, which can be a challenge at times for a lot of families. In fact, Focus president, Jim Daly talked about some of those challenges with a recent guest.
Jim Daly: Well, you have an 8-year-old son and I love something that he said. It was about making his bed, I believe and he said, “Well, that’s your job,” right? (Laughter)
Kay Wyma: Yes, “That’s your job.” And then I had another friend whose child, when she said, “You need to do the dishes” to this boy. And he said, “Do what to the dishes?” (Laughter) And she stood at the sink going, “Clean them and put them in the dishwasher.” And he looked at her and said, “Well, that’s a girl’s job.”
Kay: So, needless to say, he did the dishes for a few months after that.
Jim: She broke that little boy.
Kay: Oh, yeah.
End of Teaser
Jim: (Laughter) She broke that little boy. Hey, John, that’s part of a conversation I did have with Kay Wyma and it was a few years ago. She’s a popular author, blogger and mother to five children, ages 8 to 19, so she and her husband have their hands full. Back then we were talkin’ about youth entitlement, which is a fancy way of describing the attitude many kids have about getting whatever they want whenever they feel like it and having complete freedom from responsibility. I’m so glad my boys didn’t hear that about washin’ the dishes, ’cause they’re actually doin’ pretty well in that category. We’re crackin’ the whip.
John: So, you’re helping them understand that responsibility.
Jim: Yes, that’s everybody’s responsibility, certainly not just a girl’s responsibility. (Laughter) I don’t think mom would stand for [that] one second (Laughter) if that were their response, but that’s where it’s at.
John: Well we, as I said, are gonna be talking about kids and work today and that’s something we always struggle with, even dishes. I mean, I have (Laughter) one child who, when the dinner is done, that individual says, “I’ll be right back” (Laughter) And 15 minutes later, you know, the rest of the kitchen is clean and they show up.
Jim: Well, that could be actually brilliance in your midst. You don’t know. (Laughter) I mean, they’re checkin’ out right when they need to.
John: That’s a pretty good way to look at it.
Jim: But this is gonna be a fun program, talking about how to help your children (Chuckling) and maybe even yourself and your spouse better understand the economics of the household.
John: Well as you said, Jim, Kay Wyma is our guest and if you would like to learn more about Kay and her book called Cleaning House: A Mom’s 12-Month Experiment to Rid Her Home of Youth Entitlement, that was the conversation we taped last time–
Jim: That’s a good title.
John: –you can find out more about that and a CD of the program at www.focusonthefamily.com/radio or when you call 800-A-FAMILY.
Jim: Kay, welcome back to “Focus on the Family.”
Kay: Oh, it is always fun to be with you guys. Thanks for having me.
Jim: We enjoy it when you’re here. Where do you think this entitlement mentality comes from? What started it? Is it Adam and Eve (Chuckling) or did it come later?
Kay: Well, I think if you look back just in our country alone, the entitlement really started in the 1940’s when there was a very well-meaning pediatrician who put to the forefront the best way to raise … to have your home is with a child-centric home, okay. So, it started making us pave the path for the kid instead of the kid for the path.
And it’s just progressively gotten worse, because within the United States, the American dream, we always thought the American dream was the opportunity to be able to come to this country and do whatever you want. And it’s since changed a little and has turned to the words “You’re owed and you deserve the dream.”
And when it started to do that, this issue of entitlement really began to seep in. And it’s a lot of well-meaning, you know, loving families that are buying into this message from society that says, you have got to prepare the path for your kid and not the kid for the path. And thus, the kid is groomed into thinking, I do; I deserve it. I’m owed these kinds of things and they don’t even consider the fact that they could do it themselves.
Jim: Well, now let’s parlay this into the theme of your book, Cleaning House: A Mom’s 12-Month Experiment to Rid Her Home of Youth Entitlement. You talk about work in the home.
Kay: Right, yeah.
Jim: And this is a fun one, so all the moms and dads are now leaning in and you know, Jean and I, I don’t know about you and Dena, John, but I mean, this is a constant thing. Besides saying please and thank you, this would be the runner-up to that–
Kay: It does seem like it, doesn’t it?
Jim: –is getting—
John: Every day.
Jim: –chores done around the house and I can say the boys are doing a much better job than when they were a little younger, but it’s a constant parenting thing, getting—
Jim: –the kids to participate, to do it well—
Jim: –and to understand the benefit of work.
Kay: Yes and it’s interesting, The Wall Street Journal did an article not long ago talking about why kids needs chores. And actually, it is proven that they are more successful adults. These kids that have chores when they’re age 2 and 3 are more successful adults, which for me, I might sit there and go, “Oh, gosh, I can’t go back.” (Laughter) We’re so far down the road.
John: Too late. (Laughter)
Kay: Did we mess up? But the truth is, you can start at any time, so it’s not like, oh, if you don’t start by 2 or 3. And I’ve watched these families. I’ve had a great opportunity to go speak at different venues throughout the country and these parents and moms that are stepping [up] and letting their 2- and 3-year-olds do things that normally for safety reasons, you know, they wouldn’t be allowed to do, because you can’t cut the strawberries. It involves a knife.
And yet, what happens to a kid when they do that, it’s (Wound of vrrr) all this independence and self-confidence that you hope for them to have, that we think that’s coming on the other side of these “successes,” But when they do these things on the … on their own, boy, you can’t pay for that. It’s unbelievable what it does to their confidence level. They will look at mountains and see them as opportunities rather than obstacles. And that is the American dream. Go back to the Founding Fathers. I mean, it was like, you show me the furthest boundary; I’m goin’ there. Do you know what I mean?
Jim: I do.
Kay: The society has absolutely changed, because you can’t even go and find your child, your 14-year-old a job, because of the regulations and the issues that come with insurance, that you can’t employ a 14-year-old. And it seems like such a disservice. It’s like, that kid needs to be baggin’ groceries, because you know what, Mrs. Magillacuddy’s gonna yell at him when he puts the milk on the grapes. And he might listen to her instead of the yappy, you know, the mother, “Don’t do it that way.”
Jim: Well, how do we do that then in this environment where it’s safety conscious and regulation orientation? I mean, how do we give our children those opportunities to fail, to put the milk on the grapes or the eggs—
Jim: –and in a way that is, you know, safe and controllable?
Kay: Yeah, ’cause it’s seeming like the opportunities to fail are getting fewer and far between and that sounds kind of mean, but it really isn’t mean. And it’s kind of informing them, by the way, these paths to the people that you see that are successful, really is paved by failure. I mean, if a kid likes the Harry Potter series, for example, she was turned down hundreds of times—not two or three, but hundreds—and kept going back with a manuscript. Will someone look at it?
And we see the end of the day where it looks all beautiful, but the lights that we are looking at—Thomas Edison, failure, failure, failure, failure, failure, failure, failure. Oh, then it works. And so, the failure is so precedes the successes and it lets you know that you can get up. And so, what do you do, work together. I mean–
Jim: Well, and that’s teaching tenacity.
Kay: –it really is.
Jim: Let me ask you though, your background, you’re coming from a different perspective because you were raised in a home—
Kay: I was, yeah.
Jim: –where you didn’t have to do lot of work.
Kay: Are you gonna tell everyone how—
Jim: I think it’s important.
Kay: –I was raised?
Jim: ‘Cause it sounds like you had it right, right from the beginning, but that’s not your story. You learned the hard way.
Kay: Well, so I was raised in a home. It was a different age. It really was a tiny bit different age where you had schools even that were allowed to let kids fail. The education system these days doesn’t allow failure, even in Texas, until you’re in seventh grade, you don’t get a zero. You get a 50.
Jim: But doin’ work in your home.
Kay: Right and so, I grew up in a home that was comfortable, all right. I really can’t remember a day where we didn’t have a lovely meal. I’m just gonna say it, my first car might’ve had three letters that were German. (Laughter) And so, I was not hurting.
Now that said, my father instilled in us a good work ethic. You know, Saturday mornings were chore days. If you went to school, if you didn’t produce your best, it was to go to do your best. You know, you don’t schluff. We do hard work. You don’t quit. Oh, my goodness, he never let us quit. I’ll never forget being on a tennis court literally sick and he was like, “You will finish that match.” You can retire after, but you will finish what you start. And so, that was groomed into us and yes, we were very comfortable.
I married a missionary kid whose upbringing was very different than mine. I might’ve been going to Nieman’s getting my clothes and he was getting it out of the mission box. And so, you bring these two worlds together and at the core, we both had families that were hard work[ing]. You’re honest; you’re, you know, the morals that come behind this great thing to instill in our children, that your effort is worth something. And by the way, you have something to offer and that’s the most exciting part about it.
Jim: So, talk on the one hand about maybe the healthy and unhealthy parental instinct versus what you’re really trying to do is ready that child for life and that you have to restrain yourself as a parent to let them struggle a bit. And when they start whining and complaining, what do you do?
Jim: Do you buckle and do it or do you hold the line and say, “No, little Johnny, you gotta do this now?”
Kay: I think it’s a fine line; I really do and I think a lot of it has to do with the personality of your children. I think also one thing in allowing your kids to, and putting more on your kids’ plate, than quite frankly even you think is the right thing to do, will help you understand what that kid’s giftedness actually is.
Jim: So push a little more.
Kay: Yes and what I find’s so interesting, that I am more often than not the problem. You know, the words, “Yes, you can; you can do this; you can to this,” I’m needing to hear as much as the kid is. It’s like, yes they can; they can; they can. Get out of the way; they can do this, because it’s hard, because you do love them so much. And so, it’s this idea of rather than hearing that the way to best love your kid is to do things for them, maybe for a second consider the way to best love this individual that is in your home, who you are a steward over the life for such a brief period of time, is to equip ’em. Put things in their backpack, so they can do all these great things that you know that they can do, so that they might know it, too. But the only way for them to know it is to do it.
Kay: And as ridiculous as the chores are in the home, there’s so much involved in it, you know. Their friends aren’t doing it, so that right there is a step up. I’ve talked to so many moms whose college kids have written them the notes, “Thank you so much for making me do those hard things.” Because nobody else was doing it. I didn’t realize it and I think of even the beauty of our relationship with the Lord and how that plays in. He lets us do a lot of stuff that He could do Himself, a lot faster, a lot easier, much more efficiently and quite frankly, do it right.
But there must be some loving aspect in that of, let Me let you do it, because you’re going to realize what I prepared you in advance to do. And so, how cool to watch that play out even in our homes with these very seemingly ridiculous things, that actually play to a bigger, a bigger picture.
John: Well, offering some insights about preparing your children for the path of life, that’s Kay Wyma. She’s our guest on “Focus on the Family” today and her book is called Cleaning House and we hope you’ll get a copy of that and perhaps a CD of this program to share with someone else. Those are available when you call 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY or you can download the audio and find details about our mobile app at www.focusonthefamily.com/radio.
End of Program Note
Jim: Kay, you’re a self-processed “messy.” (Laughter) So, I appreciate that vulnerability.
Kay: I like to call it “creative.”
Jim: You’re (Laughter) a creative messy. I don’t care what you call it but you know, how did you come to grips with this, especially if your kids say, “Well, mom, you’re not so good at this.”
Kay: It’s so true and it’s funny and here comes your kid’s personalities. We have five. We’ve got it all and you know what? I had one that follows in my footsteps. It is so hard for me when I walk past her room, to not go in and fix it. My word! The clutter is unbelievable. And I have to think, no, this is her space. Here’s the rules that we set into motion and it will have to play out, you know.
Jim: Give us an example of that. What are the rules like?
Kay: Well, for her, at least once a week everything has to be picked up off the floor.
Jim: Once a week.
Kay: Yes, because if it was every day, it does something to her that’s not good. Now her sister is totally opposite. She is so fastidious. Everything has a place. Everything’s organized. And I look at them. The one that has her stuff everywhere, she’s a phenomenal artist. And there’s something in it. She’s always got somethin’ goin’. I go in her room. There’s creative thoughts all over her room that she’s taken Post-It notes and put different things.
And so, she’s that way. My fastidious one–she is 15-years-old today–at 13, she could’ve run a company. (Laughter) I’m not joking and that kinda goes back to your question, how do you get these kids a job?
My friends, your friends know what’s going on, okay. So, there was one who, in their office, they needed help during the summer, just clerical help, the stuff that no one wants to do. The CEO kid stepped right up and completely organized their office. And she was 13-years-old.
Jim: I don’t have one of those. Do you have one of those kids, John?
John: I have one of those out of the six–
Kay: But I wouldn’t have known.
John: –[just] one.
Kay: I have to say I would not have known that about her if I hadn’t pulled away because I think we are so quick to just assume that our kids are like we are. And I mean, why not, because they’re a part of you and I don’t really know anything different than me.
But to step back allows them to be who they are and I just really want to add, it’s not some prescriptive, A plus B equals C. We have the different personalities where one or two, it is harder for them. It is slower for them. It doesn’t look the same for everyone else, but they tried it all. I keep telling John, you know, one of ours in particular knows how to do everything. It’s all right. He knows. He knows how to do it all. He knows how to cook. He knows how to do his laundry. He knows how to do it, very hard for him to do it, really, really hard. And so, we back off of that one and only do the drops where needed, because there’s enough in his world telling him that he can’t do this, you know, so much stuff. I don’t want that message coming from home, too.
So, it really is, know your kids. Teach ’em how to do this stuff. Equip them. They can do a lot more than you think they can, for sure more than they think they can and you really have no idea what’s on the other side of that.
Jim: Let’s go back to that question though of “good enough.” I mean, when you have a child, let’s say they’re capable, 12, 13 and they’re missing a lot of that accuracy, cleaning the bathroom for example, if you want to use that one. Everything’s clean but the sink and maybe the toilet. And you’re going, okay, this has to get done and they don’t like doin’ it.
Kay: I know.
Jim: They don’t like mopping. They don’t like whatever. How do you move them from that mediocrity to something that’s a little better, something that they are able to do? Like you said, maybe not a child that is unable to do that for whatever reason, but you know this child is capable of it and they’re just choosing not to do it.
Jim: How do you move that 13-year-old, 14-year-old?
Kay: Of course, you go to the 13 and 14. (Laughing)
Jim: Yeah, well, I’m living it—
Kay: Yeah, I know; it’s very true–
Jim: –right now.
Kay: –and you know they’re not. And I think a big part of it is putting on these non-listening ears. Sweet Jody Capehart, who I know you guys know, she’s so sweet and I asked her one time, “How do you do this stuff?” Because they push back with the most ridiculous reasons. “I don’t know how to.”
Jim and John: Yeah (Laughing).
Kay: And it’s like, okay, everyone here knows that you know how to.
Jim: How to wipe a counter.
Jim: I don’t know how to wipe a counter, mom.
Kay: I know and then you’re thinking and they say it repeatedly, because as if repeating it actually makes it true, you know. (Laughter)
John: It’s kinda your clue as a parent that maybe that’s not true.
Kay: Right, I know and it’s sort of like as if on cue and you think, are we gonna do this again? (Laughter)
Kay: And she said to me, “Don’t engage. Don’t get in the middle of that stuff. Say it and walk away.” And she’s like, “I’m not saying not to love your child, but I’m saying let that stuff bounce off and roll like Teflon. Like don’t listen to it and just say, ‘Yes you do; do it; do it; do it.’” And if it’s not done and it depends on the kid, you know, you can throw in, “If it’s not done by this time, sorry; you lose this privilege,” or whatever you’ve got, whatever system you have in your house that is rewards or consequences, what means something to them individually. There’s your card. And stay the course, you know, in a loving way. They’re kids and these teenagers, God bless ’em.
Jim: Well, I was gonna ask you that, because I think the next obvious question is toughness, ’cause a lot of parents in the Christian community particularly, we don’t see that as an attribute, a fruit of the Spirit. Be tough with your kids when they don’t—
Jim: –do their chores. It’s just not listed there. And so, where do we find that ability as a parent to be a little tough on our kids? That’s what you’re talkin’ about.
Kay: I think it is. I think you have to throw prayer in there and because I think in this effort, it really could become about performance which is something that we all would probably do best to avoid. And so, how do you make them do these things in your home that you would like for them to do for their sake and bring alongside with it all the others for their sakes?
And there’s one Who certainly knows the heart and mind of each one of those children and it’s like a lot of prayer goes into that. Where do I push? Where do I pull? Please let me not make it about performance, because I could have it be about the clean bathroom. What’s going on in this day? Why are they pushing back like this? Is it teenage whatever that is, you know, (Laughter) where it’s not all firing correctly? And if it is, give ’em a break. You are loved. You know, it’s one of those fine lines.
Jim: You talk about a story with your son pumping gas, which I, you know, I thought about that the other day.
Jim: My two boys are capable of that, but I rarely have them get out of the car—
Kay: Yeah, and changing—
Jim: –’cause it’s so much faster.
Kay: –a tire, too.
Jim: Well, talk about the story of pumping gas. What was that about
Kay: Well (Laughter), why would you pick that one?
Jim: ‘Cause it embarrasses us.
Kay: Well, it was—
John: I think it’s because–
Kay: — such an embarrassing day.
John: –and so many moms are gonna relate—
John: –to this.
Kay: Oh, my goodness, that morning was one of those, you know, how you have the classics where everything is going wrong and we couldn’t find anything, walking out of the house. I may not have found my clothes that morning and I could’ve been doing what I often do, possibly driving the carpool in my pajamas. And then I get in the car and it’s on E, like the orange E that has been on there for a while–
Jim: The light is on. (Laughing)
Kay: –which you all may not do that.
Jim: No, we do that.
Kay: I’ve decided it’s how a mom lives on the edge, you know. How long can you go on E?
John: Will I really run out of gas?
Kay: Yeah. We pull up at the gas station and I’m like, “Get out of the car and pump the gas.” And he’s sitting there going, “I can’t get out of the car and pump the gas.” I’m like, “Yes, you can. Get out of the car!.” And by this point, you know, he’s complaining, opening the door. “I can’t pump the gas!” And so he—
Jim: He’s never pumped the gas before maybe?
Kay: –I don’t think at that point he had pumped the gas, but (Laughter) he was doin’ it—
Jim: So, he was accurate—
Kay: –that day.
Jim: –He was accurate.
Kay: But he could. I know he can. I mean, how hard is it? You put the card in and then you pull it out. Well, we had to go through this exercise with me in my pajamas, yelling out the crack in the window. And by this time, everyone at the gas station is watching us. I mean, it was horrifying. And he puts the card in, pulls the card. You know, it’s like (Sound of eek-ook eek oo) puttin’ the card in. And I’m like, “Stop doin’ it with the card. It won’t work,” you know!
And so, I mean, it was a traumatic experience for literally everyone involved. I’m so glad; I thought that one I might’ve seen on the evening news. You know, they do have cameras out there. (Laughter) But at the end of the day, he did pump the gas. It’s not that hard, right?
Kay: But the pushback, the pushback is almost always there. Does it ever end?
Jim: Well, especially—
Kay: Does pushback end?
Jim: –especially a first-timer, you know, and especially for boys. They’re—
Kay: Oh, if—
Jim: –not that confident.
Kay: –only that were the case, because see, “I can’t pump gas” occurred every single time.
Jim: Oh, okay, well, that’s a little—
Kay: And it—
Kay: –still sort of does. It’s like, “Well, can’t you do it?” And now they fight with each other. “You get out and do it.” “You get out and do it.” But they do know they will have to know how to pump gas. It seems silly to even talk about it, but there are things. How would they know how to do it if they hadn’t done it before?
Jim: What about doing errands? You talk about that in the book as a good way to teach.
Kay: I love the errands. Okay, this was in my mind that day going, “What do they not know how to do? What do I do that they could do?” And so, errands, we do errands all the time.
Jim: Well, you’re living in a place that’s close. We’re more rural, so—
Kay: You really—
Jim: –to have them go to the store—
Kay: –don’t do errands?
Jim: –I mean, it’s hard. I mean, we’re not near a grocery store, so—
Jim: –it’s like 15 miles to a grocery—
Kay: Yes, but—
Kay: –still, going, I drive to the grocery store and I kick ’em out of the car and they go do the shopping.
Jim: Okay, I like that.
Kay: But I had to show them how to shop first and get my hands off the produce. It’s hard for me to allow them to pick the produce.
Jim: Did they ever blow it? Did they buy brown bananas?
Kay: Oh, absolutely and then we eat ’em and everyone complains and that’s the last time they do that maybe.
John: Does this allow you to stay in the car in your pajamas?
Kay: I do. (Laughter) Yes, John—
Jim: There’s a pajama theme here.
Kay: –it does. (Laughter) It absolutely does.
Jim: Do you ever get dressed for the day, Kay?
Kay: Not often. (Laughter) I like to set the bar low.
John: There’s a side benefit, Jim.
Kay: I don’t know. It’s called “missionary dressing,” is how I like to think of it. (Laughter)
John: There’s a side benefit to teaching your kids how to do things.
Jim: Join us tomorrow on “Focus on the Family” when—
Jim: –we’ll teach you how to dress properly.
Kay: Hilarious, you set the bar so low that everyone is very happy they’re not you!
Jim: Kay, as we wind down this program and we’ve talked about your 12-month experiment to see the trail of tears that you’re creating, to not prepare the child for the path; rather you’re tryin’ to prepare the path for the child, which is not what you want to do–
Jim: –talk about the end game. Your kids, some of your children are a little older now.
Jim: Is the proof in the pudding? Did it work? Are those kids doin’ well?
Kay: I think about that a lot. I really do and I go, is there proof in the pudding? Because to me, I’m always, my mind will go, oh, there’s always more. You should always be doing. Am I doing this right? Have I done [enough]? And there goes those words, right and all this kind of stuff. And I look at the kids and I think, breathe.
Did they do their SAT tests themselves? Yes, they do; they do all of their homework themselves. I don’t even know. I don’t know how to log onto the school system, because I never look. We have online grading systems in Texas, where you have pass codes, where you literally could know all day, every single day everything that your child has done, every assignment. And I don’t know the password. And so, in my head, I go, yes, there is something good about that. And my kids are more prone to even talk to their advisor on their own without me.
I had a daughter going through some really tough stuff the other day and you know what she did and it was tough. She had to drop a couple of classes. She’s in a small class, because it was too stressful and we realized, this doesn’t define you. Let’s figure out a way to make it work. And when she dropped it on her own, she said to me, “You know, everybody knows. It’s a small environment and I didn’t want everybody talkin’ about it without knowing exactly why I did everything.”
So on her own, she went to every person and said, “This is why I dropped these classes. This is what I’m struggling with.” And then she went to the professors. “I just want you to know it wasn’t you. Please don’t be disappointed in me.” And what happened on the other side of this is this freedom of relationship with all these people. And I’m sittin’ there going, how did you, what in the world? I would never have thought to tell her to that. And it was like, it’s so far exceeded anything that I would’ve hoped for. Could she have done that on her own if she wasn’t navigating her own road?
We had to help her navigate some of the very difficult stuff, especially as a teenager, to be able to grasp with it, which we did. We went in and helped and then we backed out. And in the backing out, she’s soaring and I look at that. Those are deep emotional relationship related things and she’s 16. And I was like, I never would’ve thought you would have learned any of that until you were in your 30s, sweetheart.
Jim: Kay Wyma, author of the book, Cleaning House: A Mom’s 12-Month Experiment to Rid Her Home of Youth Entitlement, this (Laughter) has started the conversation and if you need help, that’s why Focus on the Family is here. We’ll provide resources and tools to improve your parenting skills, which I think all of us need that, John. And Kay, it’s been great havin’ you here at Focus. Thanks for bein’ with us.
Kay: Thank you so much. It’s a blast.
John: And it’s wonderful to hear how your efforts to prepare your children for the path of life has paid off and you can learn more about the tools and resources Jim was talking about, including Kay’s book and a copy of today’s program when you stop by www.focusonthefamily.com/radio or call us. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY; 800-232-6459.
Now at the website we’ll link over to our earlier conversation with Kay, which has some details about her 12-month experiment to essentially undo youth entitlement in her home.
We’ll also let you know how you can be part of our family support team. According to the research that we’ve done, more than 660,000 moms and dads believe that Focus on the Family has helped them have stronger, healthier, more God-honoring families in the past year. And we’re looking forward to reaching even more families this year, but we need your help. Any gift given today will allow us to empower parents and give them the tools they need to raise thriving children. I wonder if we can count on your financial support today. Send a donation of any amount and we’ll say thank you by making sure you get a complimentary copy of Kay’s book, Cleaning House. Our number to donate or ask about resources is 800-A-FAMILY or stop by www.focusonthefamily.com/radio.
Our program was provided by Focus on the Family and on behalf of Jim Daly, I’m John Fuller, inviting you back next time, as we’ll hear one couple’s very honest story about never giving up on what seems like a doomed marriage.
Mrs. Vicki Rose: It was driving me to the conclusion that I was really unhappy and maybe it was Billy. Maybe it was … I wasn’t sure, but it was becoming clear to me that this thing that I thought would solve everything hadn’t.
End of Excerpt
John: That’s next time, as we offer hope for you and your family to thrive.