Day One:
Jim Daly: Today Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, marriage coach and author Dan Seaborn is gonna help you have a happier marriage by making a few simple adjustments in how you view your spouse.
Dan Seaborn: I tell Jane all the time now, “I like how you do that. Uh, it’s not the way I do it, but I like that. God made you that way. I need to celebrate that ’cause it’s good.” It makes me wo… More well-rounded when I think about it from that angle.
John Fuller: Thanks for joining us today. I’m John Fuller.
Jim: Dan Seaborn has been on our show a few times in the past, and I really appreciate his speaking style because he is very humble. He’ll be the first person to say he’s had problems in his marriage, which makes his teachings even more powerful because they’ve worked in his own life. Uh, Dan is the founder and president of Winning at Home, which offers counseling and other services to help strengthen family relationships. He and his wife Jane have been married for over 40 years, and they have four adult children and eight grandchildren. Let me set up the visuals of the presentation. Dan has a candle on the stage, which represents a marriage. The taller the candle, the healthier the marriage. And he refers to the idea of being impatient with your spouse as having a short wick.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I’m kind of guilty of that.
John: (Laughs).
Jim: (Laughs).
John: Well, we should also mention that Dan’s wife, Jane, is in the audience. He makes allusion to her presence there a couple of times. And so, uh, here’s Dan Seaborn at New Tribe Church in Mount Julia, Tennessee on today’s Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
Dan: I did a little something that I’m, I told you I’m, I’m pretty transparent. I’m not standing up here like I got it all figured out. I’m trying to grow in marriage. I’m about to expose myself to you in something… That didn’t sound good. I’m about to share something with you that… (Laughs). I won’t be doing that. But I’m gonna share some stuff with you where the Lord’s been really working on me 40 years in. But I did a little list the other day of things that Jane and I argued about. Short wick. Y’all ever have short wicks with each other? So I, I decided I’m just gonna keep a list for the course of the month. I’m gonna keep a list of the things that we disagreed about. We… I did this several years ago and, and, and I’m gonna talk about why I don’t need to do this now because the Lord has done something in our marriage that’s been quite shocking to help us kee… Keep fresh oxygen in it.
Our marriage today is the best it’s ever been. I’m not just saying that. We get along like we never have gotten along and part of it’s because the Lord just worked on me in an area, I’m gonna share with you in just a moment. But previous to that, we just disagree a lot. And some of you in her, I know, like, I know somebody on the way here tonight, you had something happen. In fact, you got out of the car and like, I don’t even wanna do this. That charcuterie board better be good or this is a joke! I know how it works. And it’s like Jared said, “The enemy hates you being here tonight.” Like the message you’re hearing, he hates it! So I know what it’s like to have those disagreements. And I kept a list of the, of the things we disagreed about. ‘Cause I wanna show you how foolish it is, this short wick stuff we have with each other. I’m just gonna share it with you. Here it is, the… I kept a list.
So Jane and I would disagree. I would go into the, my office here and I’d just write it down. I just kept a list. There it is. There’s my list for the month. You tell me which of these things are important enough to really argue about. You listen. It’s embarrassing, but I’m gonna read you my list. First thing we argued about during that month was the way the neighbor’s dog kept coming over and using the bathroom in our yard. We got an argument over it. I wanted to get the BB gun out and sting that dog. Jane said, “You can’t do that.” I’m like, “Watch me.”
We got an argument over it. I’d see the dog coming, I’d be going to get the BB gun, she’d be trying to run and get it away from me. We got into an argument over something to do with them kids. I mean, anybody here with kids, you relate? Yeah, you just you don’t do it the same way. We got into an argument, the ba… About the way she was using her Simply White toothpaste. I could tell she’s doing it all wrong and I’m trying to tell her, and we’re in the bathroom fighting over Simply White toothpaste. Stupid.
We got into an argument about the way I was taking the recycling trash out. She saw me take a piece of regular trash and put it in the recycling stuff, and it should be in regular. I come back in, she’s like, “I was watching.” “You watching me put out the trash?” “Well, I saw you put that one thing in there. You know that’s gonna cause a problem.” I said, “Babe, let me tell you something. When they get to the landfill, those guys are laughing their heads off going, ‘And they paid for this (laughs).’ They throwing all in the same place. They throw it all in the same stinking pile!”
We got into an argument. We were walking and one of us accidentally missed the step, and we blamed each other for missing the step and got into an argument walking. Dumb. Something to do with the kids. We got into an argument about one of those big orange construction barrels on the highway. Driving down the road either I tipped it a little bit and hit it a little bit or something, and we got an argument about it. I mean, it’s crazy. So far is there anything in here really worth arguing about? No. But this is called marriage. And the whole time the wick gets shorter and shorter and shorter.
We got into an argument. She was trying to put them fake nails on, and she broke one of ’em. And then you gotta go back and buy a whole new set. And that… The way she broke that nail, I still to this day, she ju… She just wasn’t putting it on the right way, and I could see what she needed to do. Got into an argument about it. And then that orange construction barrel, we went back by it, and we argued about it again. And I look back at this list and I go, “This is so silly.” How much of our time and how much of your time have you spent short wicking? Very impatient. Not playing the long game, play… I got a, I got a tealight for you. And if you cross that line one more time.
So probably two and a half years ago, uh, we’re in the middle of one of those. We’re not doing well. She’s crying a little bit in this argument. And she said out loud, “Ugh, I was just hoping I could finish my life with you peaceful.” And I said, “What do you mean? We’re peaceful.” And she said, “I’m not.” I travel the country and preach on marriage, okay? This is what I do for a living. I’m a ministry called Winning at Home, okay? I didn’t say anything to her at the time. She said that and I just… I looked at her countenance, I looked at her face, I looked at her whole body. It was just like defeated. And she just said, “I’m not peaceful to you and I’ll never make you happy.” She felt unappreciated. She wasn’t saying these things, I could just see it. Guys, you can read your wife. If you look at her and she looks like this, that’s a downcast soul.
So I go. And I’m on a plane flying somewhere to speak on marriage, and I’m haunted by this thought that my wife is home going, “Wow, I just wish we could be peaceful.” And I pictured my funeral, and I pictured people coming up to Jane and saying to her, “Your husband, it was… Oh, we loved him so much when he came to our church and he was such a good speaker and oh, a lot. He was just such a nice man.” And saying all this stuff to her and her and her spi… I know her, she’s a sweetheart. She’s gonna go, “Thank you. Bless you.” And I didn’t want her inside to be going, “I wish he could have been that way with me.” I didn’t want that.
Now, I’m not a horrible husband. I think she would say that. But I just didn’t like that she was not peaceful. And I think it’s because month after month after month after month we had these lists, and they started over every month. And we’d make another list. And it’s just tiring. And it f… It blows at that candle. And so I said, “Lord, I’m not dying like that. I want you to change me. I want you to make me a man that she loves to be around and says, ‘You’re blowing fresh oxygen onto the flame of our marriage.’ So Lord, show me what I gotta do.”
So we go to Florida, we go there two weeks, the beginning of every year. We go to Florida and just hang out at the beach. And the Lord began to work in my heart on this trip. And tonight I’m going to show you the things he showed me. They’re not all encompassing, but doggone it, they’ve made a huge difference in our marriage and I’m gonna show ’em to you. I gotta go over here and grab these chairs to show you the first one. So when I was walking the beach in the Florida, the Lord laid a little idea on my heart that I believe he shared with me he wanted me to try in my house. So I was like, “Okay, Lord, I will do that.” So the Lord laid this idea on my heart. “Next time you disagree, Dan, it’s gonna start with you.”
This is really big for me. It made sense. You may look at this and go, “Oh, that’s so simple.” Let me just tell you, it wasn’t easy for me. I, I listen to Jane. I do, I listen to her. But I don’t really listen to her heart. I listen to her when she’s over there and we’re going back and forth. I listen to her, but I don’t really listen why she feels the way she does way down deep. So the Lord laid on my heart, “When you and Jane are disagreeing next time I want you to go,” and I physically started doing this in our house, “I want you to go and I want you to get another chair and I want you to sit it between you. And I want you to say to Jane that I laid on our heart, on your heart to start inviting me to sit between you when you talk about things that you disagree about.”
Simple. So I got a chair. First time it started happening, I said, “Babe, the Lord laid an idea on my heart ’cause I don’t want you to finish life thinking it isn’t peaceful with me. So the Lord gave me an idea that I’m gonna try just for me.” I said, “I’m gonna, I’m gonna sit a chair here and we’re gonna pretend Jesus sitting between us and we’re gonna talk.” I wanna just tell y’all right up front, if you imagine Jesus sitting here, you co… You lose the cop attitude. You just, you don’t, you don’t sit there [inaudible]. You don’t do that. You don’t raise your voice. You don’t go, “I’ll tell you. I’ll tell you.” If Jesus is sitting here, you totally change your demeanor. You smile a lot. “Hi Jesus. Yeah sweetheart, what was it you were saying? I’ve been looking so far to hearing it. Love you.” Changes your whole spirit.
John: You’re listening to Dan Seaborn today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And you’ll find more marriage helps in his book, The Necessary Nine. We have that available. And we’ll send that to you for a donation of any amount to the ministry today. Contribute and request it at FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast. And uh, then when you’re online with us, look for a free collection of encouraging downloads called the Nurturing the Heart of Your Spouse Collection. It includes this message from Dan and many others. You can also call to donate and get Dan’s book or ask questions about that collection. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459. Let’s return now to more from Dan Seaborn.
Dan: Some of you here who use some profanity not if Jesus that’s sittin’ there. You won’t. You won’t rip out a big one. ‘Cause some of you’re good at it. You say, “How would you know?” You’re human beings, and I know what some of you grew up with and you’re carrying on those traits pretty good.
So I would sit here and here’s what the Lord really worked on me with. “Dan, the next time you’re arguing about something, tell her to explain why she feels the way she does about that. And don’t sit there…” Usually when that’s happened, “And don’t sit there and think about your response about why you disagree, et cetera. Just listen. Lay down all of you. Just lay all you down. Just, shhh, hush and stop thinking about your opinion. Just listen and ask her why she feels that way. Ask her where it comes from. What makes her think that way? Just let her talk and then tell her, you heard her.”
It sounds so easy, it’s not. Because you’re wantin’ to make your point, see. Like on the way here, somebody had a little issue, and it wasn’t that one of you was just sharing the other going, “That’s so good.” No, you were going the whole time, “Well, I’ll tell you what I think.” But when Jesus is here, I remember the first couple times I did it. Jane remembers it too. In fact, it got to a place you’d say, “Go get the chair.” And we’d sit it between us. We didn’t yell, didn’t even raise our voices. And I said to her, “Well, babe, I want you to tell me. Let’s just pick a issue.” “Yeah, let’s, uh…” “Why, why do you feel that way about that? ‘Cause I don’t, I don’t agree with you. We’re not on the same page. Why do you feel the way you do? Like down. . . you are free to share anything you wanna share. I want to hear it.” And I really listened.
And then when I would really… When you lay down all your junk and all your thinking and you just listened. After you listened, you go, “Well, that’s pretty good.” Well, and many times it would be ’cause of some way she grew up and felt. 42 years into marriage she still has feelings from her childhood. And I took time to listen and let me, lemme just tell y’all what happened in our house. It’s just my house. But I’m challenge you tonight for those of you who have the, a little bit of wound, I’m asking you go get a chair. It’s gonna feel so silly. You’re gonna be… One of you’s gonna look at the other go, “Are we, are we, are we really gonna do what that preacher suggested? Are you really gonna get a chair?” I’m telling you, try it.
And let me, lemme just go ahead and make this point for those of us who say we’re followers of Christ. Do you remember in John when Jesus said, “I will leave my Holy Spirit”? So he is in the room anyway, he’s already there. You’re just acknowledging it. He is there. You’re just acknowledging it. So you aren’t really doing anything new, you’re just making it new for you. He’s been there all along. He knows how you talk. He knows how you walk. He knows how you act. You’re not pulling one over on him. 9 times outta 10 as we begin to do this, 9 times outta 10. Uh, am I exaggerating, baby? You know, I mean, I… It just changed us.
Can you remember last… I’m just asking you, I’m… She’s not ready for this question. I don’t do this a lot, but do you remember the last time we argued? Can you re… Can you tell me when it was? That’s… I can’t remember it. We went to Florida for two weeks at the beginning of this year. Um, we never disagreed. This system and doing this and activating the Holy Spirit in the moments where we’re disagreeing, it’s just changed our marriage. And the reason was because she starts talking to me and I’m listening to her and I’m, uh… She finishes and I go, “Baby, I… That’s… Your thinking’s really good on that. I mean, I… That’s not the way I think, but I kinda like what you’re saying. Let’s do it the way you’re thinking.”
Crazy. Never would’ve thought. I would not have thought at my age I could switch that, but it did. And it’s much better. And the Lord gave me this little idea, and I’m gonna ask you tonight to consider it. Consider pulling that chair in or however that fits in your home. Do… Grab a stool, grab something. Just sit it down and go, “This is Jesus.” Your demeanor will change. And my goal was, “I want peace with you girl. And I want you to finish life with me going, ‘You are one peaceful sucker. Uh, you brought peace to our home.'” Example number one.
Second thing the Lord laid on my heart, I was walking the beach one day and I did not physically see two cones. I did not physically see two cones. But the Lord laid on my heart and I saw walking on the beach in my mind these two cones were right on. I was on the sand. I’m walking the beach. I walk in about eight miles on the beach. I do that every day. And I’m walking the beach, and I just saw these two cones outta nowhere. Jane is back somewhere. She loves to read a book. She’s sitting reading a book. I’m walking by myself. And these two cones are sitting around like, “Lord, what, what are you… What is this?”
And I felt like the Lord laid this thought on my heart, and it’s for you. It was for me, but I’m just sharing it with you tonight. You’re learning from my mistakes in this session. I did not treat my wife with great peace, and I wanted to finish my life with her. We’re in the last third of our life and I wanna finish really peaceful with her. And I ask the Lord, “Show me how and I’ll do it. I want our candle to burn well to the end.”
And I saw these two cones, and I said, “Lord, what is that?” And the Lord laid on my heart. There’s no turtle doves, nothing, no- nothing hit me in the head. But it’s just this idea came to me. The Lord laid on my heart, “Dan, this is Jane and this is how I made her. This is, this is how I established her. And you’ve spent a lot of your life trying to change or rearrange the way I… ‘Jane, if you just do this, Jane, oh, oh no, that’s not good enough either. Try this. You know what, you know if you just act this way, if you just say this to me, if you could just…’ Dan, you’ve spent a lot of your life moving her cones. Get your hand off her cones.” Not the other one, thi- this cone here.
I just felt like the Lord said, “Get your hands off her cones. Let me work on her, you pray. You trust me.” How many of you in this room, come on, don’t raise your hands or anything right now, but how many of you in the room even today tried to readjust your spouse and go, “If you had just, if you just…” And the Lord’s like, “Dan, I made her the way I made her on purpose for you. It’s to get you deeper in me, to help you see things about yourself and Me that you don’t understand. And if you need to align her so that she’s exactly like you want, you won’t learn some things I wanna teach you. So let Me work on her and you love her the way I made her and for who she is.” Oh.
Somebody here today was a adjusting one on the way here. And when you do this all day long, you ready? You do this with your spouse all day long, let me tell you what they feel. Inadequate. Invalidated. “I’m not good enough. I bet you wish you had married somebody else. I’ll never make you happy.” And that’s not what you want them to feel. But it’s what you create by constantly trying to change ’em. You say, “Well, Dan, they need to change.” Let the Lord work on them and you pray. Radical idea. Let the Lord work on them and you pray.
Since we’ve been doing this, I would say really common for Jane to look at me and say to me, “Not now.” Now that I don’t try to adjust her all day long, really common for her to say, “Baby, is there anything I could work on and do better?” What the world? It’s because she’s more at peace. When you’re at pea… Listen to me, when you’re healthy, you can work on things. There’s some of you in this room tonight. I- I’m telling you it’s normal, ju…. Some of you are so unhealthy ’cause you’re struggling with your own identity because you’re trying to find your identity in your spouse, etc. You can’t. Your identity is in the Lord. He is your creator, your spouse is not. When you find your full identity there, then you put this in your proper place.
Let me tell you something about marriage. In our culture, in our world, we’ve almost elevated marriage I think too high. Let me tell you what I mean by that. The ultimate goal of this life is not to be married. That doesn’t mean you made it in life. If it does, then our Savior missed it. So keep your Savior first, put marriage in its proper place and then do it to the best of your ability because your candle has a purpose. Three chairs, two cones. And the third little idea of the Lord laid on my heart was so good for me.
I grew up in a home of, of yellers. Whoever yelled the loudest got the most attention. And Jane and I getting into a disagreement, it would get loud. And the Lord laid on my heart this… I was reading scripture one day and I got to thinking there is no place in scripture, no place in scripture I could find. I began to search the word trying to find it. There is no place in scripture where someone said something or did something to Jesus that got Him to react where He was out of control. No one ever pushed His buttons. He pushed His own buttons. In fact, if you remember standing before the Roman Emperor, they’re all [inaudible], “Do you know who I am?” And Christ’s response is, “Um, only who My Father allows you to be.” I mean, that’s a good one right there.
And I look and I go, “Wow, this guy never lost His cool. Nobody ever knew how to push His buttons.” And the Lord just laid on my heart, “You don’t have control of your buttons. When Jane says this, you just react. Why you do… Why don’t you get control of yourself?” And I began to do what I call the third idea the Lord laid on my heart, three chairs, two cones, half-tone is what I call it. The Lord began to lay on my heart, “The next time you’re really frustrated or upset, instead of raising your voice, lower it to half your normal volume.” So if you’re upset, “Babe, I just need to share, I’m really upset.” Like say it really soft. So I did.
Jane and I were talking about something as we were working through all this stuff, trying to grow as people. And I just said to her, “Honey, I’m… This is really upsetting me.” She’s like, “What do you mean?” I’m like, “I just… I’m just everything… Ooh, I’m just really upset.” “Well, you don’t act like it.” Oh, if you could see me inside, I’m so upset.” And then I felt like the Lord said, “And if it gets worse, if you, if you keep boiling in there, whisper.” So I’d be like, “Now I’m really bothered. I’m gonna go out and get in the car and take a little drive. I see you in a little bit.”
Soft voice, ’cause Jesus always had control of His volume. And he’s my example and I wanna learn from that. And I’ve been doing that. So I’m really upset, doesn’t happen very often, I’ll be like, “I… I’m gonna step outside a minute. Love you.” You know, just get away a little bit. ‘Cause it calms you down if you calm yourself down. And lemme tell you what it is. Like self-control against self-control, there is no law. If you have control of yourself, like your… Some of you in here, your spouse knows how to activate your button. And I want you to go, “No, no, I’m not doing that anymore.” And be careful you who know how to activate. Try to lose that. Soften that.
John: What great wisdom today from Dan Seaborn on this episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And we’re gonna conclude his presentation next time.
Jim: Yeah, and we’re running long here. So let me quickly close with this. We think this message from Dan is so critical to a healthy marriage we want you to have it for free. We’re including it in a collection of audio downloads called Nurturing the Heart of Your Spouse. It has five hours of encouraging content for your marriage, and you’ll find it at our website. And I also strongly recommend Dan’s book, The Necessary Nine: How To Stay Happily Married for Life. It’s the perfect follow up to this show. And please get your copy from us here at Focus, where the proceeds go right back into helping bring hope and joy to couples who need it. You can bless other marriages by giving to Focus on the Family and will send the book out to you for a gift of any amount. And right now, special friends of this ministry who believe in the importance of strong marriages and families are offering to double your gift dollar for dollar so that you’ll have twice the impact. This is a great time to give.
John: Yeah, donate today online at FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast or give us a call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. That’s 800-232-6459. When you’re online with us, be sure to access the Nurturing the Heart of your Spouse Collection. Next time, more encouragement for your marriage from Dan Seaborn.
Dan: How do you build a deeper relationship when it’s never been modeled for you? That’s why today I’m challenging you to take your marriages to another level ’cause I want your kids to see something better. I want this culture to see something better.
John: Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
Day Two:
Dan Seaborn: How do you build a deeper relationship when it’s never been modeled for you? That’s why today I’m challenging you to take your marriages to another level, ’cause I want your kids to see something better. I want this culture to see something better.
John Fuller: Well that’s Dan Seaborne and he’s our guest again today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Offering practical encouragement for your marriage. Thanks for joining us, I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: Dan has a very humble, humorous approach to the ups and downs (laughs) of married life, and last time he shared how the Lord convicted him of being too critical and argumentative with his wife Jane, to the point where during one fight Jane became very despondent and said, “I was just hoping we could live out the rest of our days together peacefully.”
John: Mm-hmm, yeah, you can hear her heart there. And Dan, as a full-time speaker and marriage coach, was a bit taken aback by that, uh, ’cause he thought things were pretty good.
Jim: Right, and that led Dan to some deep conversations with the Lord where he began to discern the principles he’s been sharing with us. If you missed part one of Dan’s presentation yesterday, uh, please visit our website, we are including this entire message in a free collection of audio downloads called Nurturing the Heart of Your Spouse, or get the Focus on the Family app for your smartphone to access all of our episodes.
John: And you can learn more at FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast. Here now is Dan Seaborn speaking at New Tribe Church in Mount Juliet, Tennessee on today’s Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
Dan: So here we go. Number next, developing a genuine friendship. There are plenty of people who are married who aren’t friends, plenty of ’em. Maybe even in this room they’re with somebody, be somebody in here who you go, “We coexist but we’re not really close.” The Bible says there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother, it doesn’t say marriage partner right there, it just says a friend, and I want you to choose that that will be your spouse. It’s a choice. When it said, “God made them companions,” it doesn’t describe the level of companionship they have, just that they’re companions. And I, I use my parents here as an illustration, they were companions, but they were never friends.
So what I’m gonna do today is I’m going to show you what I call the friendship circle. It’s gonna come up on the screen, it looks a little bit like the Target logo, and you’re going to get to pick where you are in your relationship. We’re gonna go from the outer circle, we’re gonna work our way in, and you’re going to get to define what kind of friendship do we have? So here we go. That outer green circle, we’re gonna call chums. And using my parents, I would tell you they had a chum relationship. Chums see each other, they’re together eight hours a day because they come home from work and so they are there together and then they go to sleep, but they don’t really talk.
I never remember seeing my mom and dad sit and talk. they’re chums, low level friendship, I mean, I, I think if one of ’em was about to die, the other one would say, “I probably should take you to the hospital.” But it wasn’t close. I’m just being honest. And Jane grew up, her parents were divorced, so me and her never saw anything more than chumness, and so we didn’t know what it was like. How do you build a deeper relationship when it’s never been modeled for you? That’s why today I’m challenging you to take your marriages to another level, ’cause I want your kids to see something better, I want this culture to see something better. The next level of friendships is what I call companions. The best way to describe companions would be, um, like people you work with, that’s the way I think of a companion. You’re going to work, you work on an assembly line, you work in construction, you work as a teacher, and you see this person eight hours a day. You become companions ’cause you work alongside each other all the time. That’s a companion friendship.
And some of you have that kind of marriage, we, we do. We, we get the mail together, we look at it, we eat dinner together, we watch a TV show together, we’re companions. And we don’t discuss stuff like, like this stuff you’re talking about Dan. It really sounds good for people who want to go plus, but that’s not us, we’re just kind of companions. People see us together at church and go, “Ah, here come the so-and-so’s.” We sit together in the same seats at church, and we worship, we even hold our hands up, we’re good companions, but we don’t have next level depth conversations. They’re just companions and it stops there ’cause that looks good. You’ve checked the box, people go, “Oh look, they’re riding in the same car, they’re good.”
Then the next level of relationship is what I call comrades. Um, the best way to describe this, just to give an illustration of it, would be kinda like your small groups at church. Some of you are in a small group here at church, and when you get together, you’ve gotten, now you’ve been together a year or two, you actually get in there and go, “Well we are dealing with something with one of our children and we want your prayer about it, so we’re gonna share it with you.” That’s next level, that’s becoming vulnerable, that’s becoming open. And there are some of you who have that, and you’re comrades, you care, it’s deep. I would actually tell you, if I had to give you a picture of what I think most church couples are, I would pick either companions or comrades.
They’re, they’re not the next level yet, we’ll talk about that in a second, but they’re good companions or they’re good comrades, and that’s their marriage. And it’s fine, it’s fine, but it’s not plus. So I wanna tell you how it hit me what the next level is. I’ve always thought, you know, Jane and I have that next level, I believe, but, but I was in a place where something happened and as soon as it happened, I went, “That’s it,” and I’m gonna tell that story. So I do some speaking for the US military, and I’ve had a privilege of doing a lot of stuff at Fort Bragg, and so I come and speak and talk to them about how to keep their marriage together thousands of miles apart.
So I had finished, we all went to break, they had a little longer break, they had more food and that kind of stuff for us to sit, they wanted us to do like a early brunch ’cause they were gonna do something later. So I sat down at a table with four couples, so all of them were married, and I sat down at the table with him and I said, “Hey guys, I came down here to speak, I don’t really know y’all, I mean, I know you’re commander, I know he, I know you’re a platoon, I get all that, but tell me about you guys. Like how do y’all do what y’all do?” They said, “Well actually, we’re, we’re special forces, and the four of us,” and there were four, in this case there were four men, in some situations there were ladies, but in this case, it was four men and their wives sitting at the table. And I said, “Are you guys a,” they said, “Yes, we’re a strike force.”
I said, “Explain to me what you do.” They said, “Well we’re being taken into one of the military active areas right now and we will be in a Blackhawk helicopter and there will be a rope,” and they said, “Our job is to secure buildings, so they’ll take us by Blackhawk helicopter, they’ll hover over a building, they’ll drop a large rope and we four climb down the rope, drop into the building, and then our job is to go and secure that entire building, then report that we’ve done it.”
I was like, wow. And I said, “Well what do you do?” And they go, “Well we all are trained specifically to do a certain thing.” I said, “Tell me what you mean.” So the first guy goes, “Well, I’m actually a medical doctor, so though I can do all the other things that need to be done, I’m there in case somebody gets shot, somebody gets hurt, something blows up, I’m to do surgery. Like I’m here to keep everybody alive medically, that’s my job.” I said, “So like someday when you retire,” “Yes, I’ll go work in a hospital, etc, I’m just a medical doctor, that’s what I do.” Awesome. Next guy, “What do you do?” “I’m a sniper.” I’m like, “Oh, I’ve seen movies about like stuff.” I said, “Are you any good?”
And the other guy said, “Let us, let us speak for him. He can strike a match at a hundred yards.” And I was like, “That’s awesome.” And the next guy, “What do you do?” He said, “Well, did you ever see the TV show MacGyver when you were younger?” I said, “Yes, I liked MacGyver.” He said, “I’m MacGyver. I can take anything we find, anything we can do, I can take a thimble and a string and make a bomb, that, that’s just what I do. We need to get into a room, I can figure out a way to blow up something to get in that room.” I was like, “That’s awesome.” So we go through and all of ’em explained to me what they did, and then I said to them, “Tell me something you’d want me to know about you guys.” I said like, “You’re about to go, you know I’m a pastor, I’ll pray for you. Tell me something you’d want me to know.”
Listen to this. One of ’em looked right at me, I still get chills when I, this is crazy, he looked right at me, he said, “Dan, I’ll tell you this. If you ever hear that one of us dies, you’re gonna hear all four of us died because we are each others’…” You ready? “Confidant.” And I mean, I was like, okay. That is to the core. And as soon as he said the word confidant, I went, that’s it, marriages need to get to that level. If you ever hear that I’m hurting, she’s hurting. If you ever hear that he’s going through a great trial at work, we’re going through a great trial at work. I am your confidant. And let me just say to you, let me just, let me show you something that the Lord kinda laid on my heart. Jesus was our confidant. He didn’t chum around with our relationship. He went to the dead center, blood-red, gave it all, and he says to us, “Men in the room, I want you to do that for your wife, the church.”
It is a whole different gig, see? See, the world’s view of marriage is this little superficial thing. What we’ve been discovering in this time together is it goes deep. Your marriage is on purpose. And I’m challenging you to look at that circle and go, “Where are we?” Like everybody in here say, if I walked up to you out there in the little food line and said, “Are you guys friends?” “Yeah, oh, oh yeah, oh yeah.” Where? How? How deep? How tight is your circle? Where does the arrow strike? This is a great thing to discuss at some point; you can go have a conversation about it and just talk about how you could get that arrow deeper.
If four military guys can sit there and tell me they would die for each other, I looked right at ’em and said, “I’m assuming you have that same level of commitment to your marriage?” And they just looked at me like, “Well, you’re putting us on the spot.” Yeah, I am, but I want you to be confidants. I like it, good word. So if 10 is the best, or in this case, confidant is the best, chum is the weakest, what are you? It’s your call. You get to decide. You can just be chums or you can go plus.
Number next, valuing physical attraction. Now, when Peter and I wrote this and put it in the book, we said, “Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, there are gonna be people attack us for this.” And they have. “Why would you put physical attraction in the book?” I’ll tell you why, I’ll tell you exactly why, and lemme tell you what I see in couples. Over time they kind of start going, “Eh, I’ve got ’em now, they’re committed to me, yeah I’m good.” I don’t like that. You know, you get one body, one. God gave you a body and he tells you to take care of it, and one of the ways you give a gift to your spouse is just being the best you can be. Now, trust me, I’ll never be 30 again, I’m 65 this year. Jane said to me a while back, “Why don’t you grow your hair?” I used to have really long, curly hair. And she said, “Why don’t you grow your hair like you used to?” I’m like, “Yeah, right after I walk on water.” I can’t.
John: You are listening to Dan Seaborn today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and you’ll find more marriage encouragement in his book, The Necessary Nine: How to Stay Happily Married For Life. We’ll send that to you for a donation of any amount to the ministry today. Donate and request the book at FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast. Let me also encourage you to take advantage of a free offer we have. We’ve collected almost five hours of encouraging messages on marriage, including this presentation from Dan Seaborn into a series of downloads called The Nurturing the Heart of Your Spouse Collection. Look for details at our website. You can also call to learn more, (800) – A – FAMILY. (800) 232-6459. Let’s return now to more from Dan Seaborn.
Dan: I said to her a while back, “Babe, we don’t kiss as much as we did, you know, when we were first dating and in marriage,” I said, “We don’t kiss like we used to.” And this was what she said to me, “Your breath don’t smell like it used to.” So I threw some stuff in there. Even today when I’m done speaking, I got it in my pocket right now. Got it out there, got it at the hotel, I keep my breath fresh. When you were dating, you didn’t show up at their house, “Haa.” You didn’t do that. No, you didn’t. And you know what really bothered me? I have a friend, I’ll protect him a little bit, but his first name is Mark, but he really ticked me off. He let himself go, just let himself go. Terrible outta shape, didn’t even try, didn’t even try to clean himself up, just let it go till he got divorced.
You know where he went right after he got divorced? I saw him there. I’m at the gym working out with him and I go up to him, I go, “Oh, I haven’t seen you here in a while. I said, why are you here?” I did, I knew he’d just got divorced. I said, “Why are you here?” Oh, I just wanted to get in a little better shape.” And I said, “Why?” I made him really mad; he literally got mad at me. I said, “Why? Why, why are you taking?” “Well, I, you know, it just gives, gives me something to do.” I said, “No, why are you cleaning up, shaving areas you ain’t shaved in a while, you got your hair looking nice, you’re getting all trim again, why?” And ultimately said, yeah, “I wanna be attractive, see if some other lady will find me attractive.”
And I said, “Exactly.” Interesting in his story, he got remarried to his wife and he came to me later and said, “You made me so mad that day ’cause you were so right. I wish I would’ve done that in the first place.” You’ll never, I’m not telling you look a certain way, that’s Hollywood crap. What I’m saying to you is take the best care of what you got that you can. You’ve been given one body, take as good care of as you can. Why? For your spouse. Stay as healthy as you can for as long as you can so they don’t have to deal with some stuff. It’s a commitment. But I want to give Jane the best of me I can give her as long as I can ’cause I will fade away, it’s called Father Time wins, and he will win, but I’m going to do the best I can to keep us in the best shape we can ’cause I want us to enjoy our life together as much as we can.
And I’m just saying, I’m not picking on anybody, I didn’t look at you out there. I’m just saying to you, if you’ve kinda said, “Ah, that doesn’t matter anymore,” you’re wrong, you’re wrong. Physical attraction matters no matter where you’re at in life, and you wanna do the best you can to take care of yourself as long as you can. And I’m just asking you, grade yourself, if 10’s good and one stinks, have you let it go a little bit, and what could you do to get back in a little better position? Dan, I don’t like this one. Good. That probably means this is the one you need to work on.
Next one, chasing emotional connectedness. Oh my goodness. Some of you in this room long for emotional oneness so deep, but you have a spouse who kind of goes, “That’s not important to me.” Again, your marriage isn’t about you, it’s about honoring the Lord, and if you have a spouse who you chose to marry, who has emotional needs that are higher than yours, you need to seek to reach into those crevices and meet that need. It’s going to require sacrifice on your part but it’s important and I wanna show you how the Lord used this in my life. I’m, I’m an emotional person, I was made that way. Jane has the math brain; I have the emotional brain. But in an area of our marriage, after we got married, I checked out emotionally, when we got married, Jane had several sisters who just weren’t doing well, and one in particular, her name is Sandy, Sandy, oh, she just bothered me. It’s Jane’s sister, and I did not see at the time, oh wait, when we get married, Jane’s sister’s actually my sister, I did not view her that way. She was Jane’s sister, and she was a problem.
And Jane would come to me saying, Sandy’s dealing, she had several children, she was not married, and I, I, I just said to Jane, “Well she’s, she’s put herself in that spot, that’s her own problem, let her deal with it.” “Well, Dan, she doesn’t, they don’t have food right now.” “Well that makes sense, let ’em figure it out.” Pa- sounds pastoral, doesn’t it? And it got to a point where Jane, um, wouldn’t even come talk to me about it, she just had it inside going she loved her sister, Sandy, younger sister. My brother fell into some problems, started having real issues in his life from poor decisions he made, my brother. I started calling him. I started like saying, “Can I send you some money?” “How can I help?” And one day I was sitting in the living room by myself going, oh my goodness, Sandy has the same issues, and I get frustrated when Jane brings that up, but now that it’s my brother, I want to help him. Hmm, that doesn’t sound like I’m one with her, it sounds like I’m one with me. I gotta change that.
And I said to Jane, we were sitting in the living room one day and I said to her, “You know, I want you to do me a favor.” And she said, “Well what, what, what do you mean?” I said, “Well, you know, I’ve been helping my brother, I want you to call your sister Sandy and see if she needs anything.” Uh, Jane, she was reading and put her book down, looked at me and said, “You all right? You okay?” I said, “Yeah.” I said, “I just, I just, I said, you’ve seen me, I’ve been helping my brother a lot.” She’s like, “I see.” I said, “I didn’t wanna do that for Sandy.” I said, “Isn’t that interesting? ‘Cause he’s my brother, I want to do it.” I said, “I’m not emotionally one with you in your family, I’ve always put you and your family, I’m with you, but not them.” I said, “We gotta change that.” So she called Sandy.
I, I still remember you calling her, we were sitting in the living room, I could hear Sandy on the other phone (laughs). Jane said, “Hey Sandy, it’s Jane calling?” “Oh,” because Sandy loves Jane. “Oh Jane, it’s so good to hear from you, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.” And she goes, “Why are you calling?” And Jane’s like, “Well, I’m sitting here with Dan and uh, he wanted me to call you and just see if you needed anything.” And she went, “Dan, who?” (Laughs). It was like, what? Because she knew I didn’t like it. Sandy was not a follower of Christ, and I was the pastor she knew, and she was pushed away by me. And the Lord began to do something in my heart toward old Sandy. Man, I started loving this girl, I just started loving Sandy like my own sister. I started saying, how can we help her? Oh, I’m just thinking about her. Uh, the rest of the story, I’ll get to it in a minute. Sandy passed away with cancer, and so I’m going back and reliving just these last times we had with her.
But, so I would say to Sandy, Sandy, is there anything we need, etc. etc, and then she started saying to Jane, “Hey, I’ve been going online and watching Dan preach.” She ended up asking if she could pray to receive Jesus as her savior. I don’t love her more than Jane, but I loved her real close, she became my sister. I never had a sister. Just a sweet lady, hard life, but she finished so good, loving the Lord, watching sermons all the time. I’m so glad that I became emotionally connected to her. So thankful that I got rid of my own stubborn spirit and became emotionally one with Jane toward her family. I call Jane’s family, my sister’s now, her mom before she passed, I called her mom, I did it on purpose, ’cause that’s my family too. And there’s somebody sitting in here going, “We are not going there. I’m not gonna love his mama like you’re talking about.”
I get it, I get it. But emotionally, there’s a oneness that’s needed. And let me just say, you don’t know what the result could be. Honestly, I believe today Sandy is in heaven right now, I believe it. And one of the reasons is because we united in Christ begin to help her. And I’m, I’m just gonna ask the question, who in your extended family could have a reshaped life if you changed your spirit toward ’em? I’m a pastor, I’m a follower of Christ. If I can’t figure out how to give my wife emotional and spiritual oneness toward her sister, what in the world am I doing in ministry? I would stand up here and preach sermons about doing that and then not go home and do it, what the world? And I’m asking you, some of you have a face flashing in front of your eyes right now. Yep, I want you to understand your spouse loves that person and you need to join them. I don’t know what it looks like, but just let that mm, get it down, because frankly, going back to our Savior, none of us deserve the kinda love He gives us, and He ask us to take that love, especially within our family, and then beyond that to the world around us.
Are you emotionally one? The picture on the screen is a blender, it’s where you take, you know, two fruits and you blend them together, that’s your marriage. How are you doing? Are you a 10 or are you a one? You get to pick, I’m just asking you to take it up a notch.
John: Well, what a great place to end this edition of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly featuring Dan Seaborn.
Jim: Well, as I’ve said John, I really appreciate Dan’s ability to mix humor with conviction, and this message was no exception. I’m not gonna explain it, but, uh, I could be doing a bit better in certain areas and let’s just say he is giving me some things (laughs) to, uh, kind of work on.
John: Well, me too.
Jim: (Laughs).
John: But I’m not giving details.
Jim: Well, I think both of us could benefit from reading Dan’s book, it’s called The Necessary Nine: How to Stay Happily Married for Life. And we only heard four of the nine principles in this show, so there’s more for us to learn. And I’d encourage you to get a copy too. Get it from us here at Focus on the Family, where the proceeds go right back into ministry. Help us help other marriages through our free counseling services and our Hope Restored Intensives, which have an over 80% success rate when we survey couples two years later. All of that and much more is made possible by your gifts to the ministry. And if you are a donor to Focus, thank you, we appreciate it so much. And if you haven’t given or it’s been a little while, can I challenge you to consider donating today? Help us bring hope and joy to families that need it. When you make a donation of any amount, we’ll send you a copy of Dan’s book, The Necessary Nine. And right now, special friends of this ministry have offered to double your gift, a dollar for dollar so that your donation will help twice as many families. And regardless of whether you can give, we have a gift for you. We’ve added this presentation from Dan to the free audio collection called Nurturing the Heart of Your Spouse. It features five hours of encouragement for your marriage.
John: Yeah, it’s a really great collection, and you can get your free access at Focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And when you’re online with us, donate generously and request your copy of The Necessary Nine, the book by Dan Seaborn, or give us a call. Our number is (800) A-FAMILY, (800) 232-6459. Have a great weekend and be sure to join us on Monday when you’ll hear how you can help children in foster care.
Ryan North: The way I think about foster care parenting is that it is the, um, it is a real tangible way to love your neighbor the way you love yourself because you’re taking care of your neighbor’s child for the period of time that they’re unable to take care of their child.
John: Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
