Jim Daly: Today Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, marriage coach and author Dan Seaborn is gonna help you have a happier marriage by making a few simple adjustments in how you view your spouse.
Dan Seaborn: I tell Jane all the time now, “I like how you do that. Uh, it’s not the way I do it, but I like that. God made you that way. I need to celebrate that ’cause it’s good.” It makes me wo… More well-rounded when I think about it from that angle.
John Fuller: Thanks for joining us today. I’m John Fuller.
Jim: Dan Seaborn has been on our show a few times in the past, and I really appreciate his speaking style because he is very humble. He’ll be the first person to say he’s had problems in his marriage, which makes his teachings even more powerful because they’ve worked in his own life. Uh, Dan is the founder and president of Winning at Home, which offers counseling and other services to help strengthen family relationships. He and his wife Jane have been married for over 40 years, and they have four adult children and eight grandchildren. Let me set up the visuals of the presentation. Dan has a candle on the stage, which represents a marriage. The taller the candle, the healthier the marriage. And he refers to the idea of being impatient with your spouse as having a short wick.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I’m kind of guilty of that.
John: (Laughs).
Jim: (Laughs).
John: Well, we should also mention that Dan’s wife, Jane, is in the audience. He makes allusion to her presence there a couple of times. And so, uh, here’s Dan Seaborn at New Tribe Church in Mount Julia, Tennessee on today’s Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
Dan: I did a little something that I’m, I told you I’m, I’m pretty transparent. I’m not standing up here like I got it all figured out. I’m trying to grow in marriage. I’m about to expose myself to you in something… That didn’t sound good. I’m about to share something with you that… (Laughs). I won’t be doing that. But I’m gonna share some stuff with you where the Lord’s been really working on me 40 years in. But I did a little list the other day of things that Jane and I argued about. Short wick. Y’all ever have short wicks with each other? So I, I decided I’m just gonna keep a list for the course of the month. I’m gonna keep a list of the things that we disagreed about. We… I did this several years ago and, and, and I’m gonna talk about why I don’t need to do this now because the Lord has done something in our marriage that’s been quite shocking to help us kee… Keep fresh oxygen in it.
Our marriage today is the best it’s ever been. I’m not just saying that. We get along like we never have gotten along and part of it’s because the Lord just worked on me in an area, I’m gonna share with you in just a moment. But previous to that, we just disagree a lot. And some of you in her, I know, like, I know somebody on the way here tonight, you had something happen. In fact, you got out of the car and like, I don’t even wanna do this. That charcuterie board better be good or this is a joke! I know how it works. And it’s like Jared said, “The enemy hates you being here tonight.” Like the message you’re hearing, he hates it! So I know what it’s like to have those disagreements. And I kept a list of the, of the things we disagreed about. ‘Cause I wanna show you how foolish it is, this short wick stuff we have with each other. I’m just gonna share it with you. Here it is, the… I kept a list.
So Jane and I would disagree. I would go into the, my office here and I’d just write it down. I just kept a list. There it is. There’s my list for the month. You tell me which of these things are important enough to really argue about. You listen. It’s embarrassing, but I’m gonna read you my list. First thing we argued about during that month was the way the neighbor’s dog kept coming over and using the bathroom in our yard. We got an argument over it. I wanted to get the BB gun out and sting that dog. Jane said, “You can’t do that.” I’m like, “Watch me.”
We got an argument over it. I’d see the dog coming, I’d be going to get the BB gun, she’d be trying to run and get it away from me. We got into an argument over something to do with them kids. I mean, anybody here with kids, you relate? Yeah, you just you don’t do it the same way. We got into an argument, the ba… About the way she was using her Simply White toothpaste. I could tell she’s doing it all wrong and I’m trying to tell her, and we’re in the bathroom fighting over Simply White toothpaste. Stupid.
We got into an argument about the way I was taking the recycling trash out. She saw me take a piece of regular trash and put it in the recycling stuff, and it should be in regular. I come back in, she’s like, “I was watching.” “You watching me put out the trash?” “Well, I saw you put that one thing in there. You know that’s gonna cause a problem.” I said, “Babe, let me tell you something. When they get to the landfill, those guys are laughing their heads off going, ‘And they paid for this (laughs).’ They throwing all in the same place. They throw it all in the same stinking pile!”
We got into an argument. We were walking and one of us accidentally missed the step, and we blamed each other for missing the step and got into an argument walking. Dumb. Something to do with the kids. We got into an argument about one of those big orange construction barrels on the highway. Driving down the road either I tipped it a little bit and hit it a little bit or something, and we got an argument about it. I mean, it’s crazy. So far is there anything in here really worth arguing about? No. But this is called marriage. And the whole time the wick gets shorter and shorter and shorter.
We got into an argument. She was trying to put them fake nails on, and she broke one of ’em. And then you gotta go back and buy a whole new set. And that… The way she broke that nail, I still to this day, she ju… She just wasn’t putting it on the right way, and I could see what she needed to do. Got into an argument about it. And then that orange construction barrel, we went back by it, and we argued about it again. And I look back at this list and I go, “This is so silly.” How much of our time and how much of your time have you spent short wicking? Very impatient. Not playing the long game, play… I got a, I got a tealight for you. And if you cross that line one more time.
So probably two and a half years ago, uh, we’re in the middle of one of those. We’re not doing well. She’s crying a little bit in this argument. And she said out loud, “Ugh, I was just hoping I could finish my life with you peaceful.” And I said, “What do you mean? We’re peaceful.” And she said, “I’m not.” I travel the country and preach on marriage, okay? This is what I do for a living. I’m a ministry called Winning at Home, okay? I didn’t say anything to her at the time. She said that and I just… I looked at her countenance, I looked at her face, I looked at her whole body. It was just like defeated. And she just said, “I’m not peaceful to you and I’ll never make you happy.” She felt unappreciated. She wasn’t saying these things, I could just see it. Guys, you can read your wife. If you look at her and she looks like this, that’s a downcast soul.
So I go. And I’m on a plane flying somewhere to speak on marriage, and I’m haunted by this thought that my wife is home going, “Wow, I just wish we could be peaceful.” And I pictured my funeral, and I pictured people coming up to Jane and saying to her, “Your husband, it was… Oh, we loved him so much when he came to our church and he was such a good speaker and oh, a lot. He was just such a nice man.” And saying all this stuff to her and her and her spi… I know her, she’s a sweetheart. She’s gonna go, “Thank you. Bless you.” And I didn’t want her inside to be going, “I wish he could have been that way with me.” I didn’t want that.
Now, I’m not a horrible husband. I think she would say that. But I just didn’t like that she was not peaceful. And I think it’s because month after month after month after month we had these lists, and they started over every month. And we’d make another list. And it’s just tiring. And it f… It blows at that candle. And so I said, “Lord, I’m not dying like that. I want you to change me. I want you to make me a man that she loves to be around and says, ‘You’re blowing fresh oxygen onto the flame of our marriage.’ So Lord, show me what I gotta do.”
So we go to Florida, we go there two weeks, the beginning of every year. We go to Florida and just hang out at the beach. And the Lord began to work in my heart on this trip. And tonight I’m going to show you the things he showed me. They’re not all encompassing, but doggone it, they’ve made a huge difference in our marriage and I’m gonna show ’em to you. I gotta go over here and grab these chairs to show you the first one. So when I was walking the beach in the Florida, the Lord laid a little idea on my heart that I believe he shared with me he wanted me to try in my house. So I was like, “Okay, Lord, I will do that.” So the Lord laid this idea on my heart. “Next time you disagree, Dan, it’s gonna start with you.”
This is really big for me. It made sense. You may look at this and go, “Oh, that’s so simple.” Let me just tell you, it wasn’t easy for me. I, I listen to Jane. I do, I listen to her. But I don’t really listen to her heart. I listen to her when she’s over there and we’re going back and forth. I listen to her, but I don’t really listen why she feels the way she does way down deep. So the Lord laid on my heart, “When you and Jane are disagreeing next time I want you to go,” and I physically started doing this in our house, “I want you to go and I want you to get another chair and I want you to sit it between you. And I want you to say to Jane that I laid on our heart, on your heart to start inviting me to sit between you when you talk about things that you disagree about.”
Simple. So I got a chair. First time it started happening, I said, “Babe, the Lord laid an idea on my heart ’cause I don’t want you to finish life thinking it isn’t peaceful with me. So the Lord gave me an idea that I’m gonna try just for me.” I said, “I’m gonna, I’m gonna sit a chair here and we’re gonna pretend Jesus sitting between us and we’re gonna talk.” I wanna just tell y’all right up front, if you imagine Jesus sitting here, you co… You lose the cop attitude. You just, you don’t, you don’t sit there [inaudible]. You don’t do that. You don’t raise your voice. You don’t go, “I’ll tell you. I’ll tell you.” If Jesus is sitting here, you totally change your demeanor. You smile a lot. “Hi Jesus. Yeah sweetheart, what was it you were saying? I’ve been looking so far to hearing it. Love you.” Changes your whole spirit.
John: You’re listening to Dan Seaborn today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And you’ll find more marriage helps in his book, The Necessary Nine. We have that available. And we’ll send that to you for a donation of any amount to the ministry today. Contribute and request it at FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast. And uh, then when you’re online with us, look for a free collection of encouraging downloads called the Nurturing the Heart of Your Spouse Collection. It includes this message from Dan and many others. You can also call to donate and get Dan’s book or ask questions about that collection. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459. Let’s return now to more from Dan Seaborn.
Dan: Some of you here who use some profanity not if Jesus that’s sittin’ there. You won’t. You won’t rip out a big one. ‘Cause some of you’re good at it. You say, “How would you know?” You’re human beings, and I know what some of you grew up with and you’re carrying on those traits pretty good.
So I would sit here and here’s what the Lord really worked on me with. “Dan, the next time you’re arguing about something, tell her to explain why she feels the way she does about that. And don’t sit there…” Usually when that’s happened, “And don’t sit there and think about your response about why you disagree, et cetera. Just listen. Lay down all of you. Just lay all you down. Just, shhh, hush and stop thinking about your opinion. Just listen and ask her why she feels that way. Ask her where it comes from. What makes her think that way? Just let her talk and then tell her, you heard her.”
It sounds so easy, it’s not. Because you’re wantin’ to make your point, see. Like on the way here, somebody had a little issue, and it wasn’t that one of you was just sharing the other going, “That’s so good.” No, you were going the whole time, “Well, I’ll tell you what I think.” But when Jesus is here, I remember the first couple times I did it. Jane remembers it too. In fact, it got to a place you’d say, “Go get the chair.” And we’d sit it between us. We didn’t yell, didn’t even raise our voices. And I said to her, “Well, babe, I want you to tell me. Let’s just pick a issue.” “Yeah, let’s, uh…” “Why, why do you feel that way about that? ‘Cause I don’t, I don’t agree with you. We’re not on the same page. Why do you feel the way you do? Like down. . . you are free to share anything you wanna share. I want to hear it.” And I really listened.
And then when I would really… When you lay down all your junk and all your thinking and you just listened. After you listened, you go, “Well, that’s pretty good.” Well, and many times it would be ’cause of some way she grew up and felt. 42 years into marriage she still has feelings from her childhood. And I took time to listen and let me, lemme just tell y’all what happened in our house. It’s just my house. But I’m challenge you tonight for those of you who have the, a little bit of wound, I’m asking you go get a chair. It’s gonna feel so silly. You’re gonna be… One of you’s gonna look at the other go, “Are we, are we, are we really gonna do what that preacher suggested? Are you really gonna get a chair?” I’m telling you, try it.
And let me, lemme just go ahead and make this point for those of us who say we’re followers of Christ. Do you remember in John when Jesus said, “I will leave my Holy Spirit”? So he is in the room anyway, he’s already there. You’re just acknowledging it. He is there. You’re just acknowledging it. So you aren’t really doing anything new, you’re just making it new for you. He’s been there all along. He knows how you talk. He knows how you walk. He knows how you act. You’re not pulling one over on him. 9 times outta 10 as we begin to do this, 9 times outta 10. Uh, am I exaggerating, baby? You know, I mean, I… It just changed us.
Can you remember last… I’m just asking you, I’m… She’s not ready for this question. I don’t do this a lot, but do you remember the last time we argued? Can you re… Can you tell me when it was? That’s… I can’t remember it. We went to Florida for two weeks at the beginning of this year. Um, we never disagreed. This system and doing this and activating the Holy Spirit in the moments where we’re disagreeing, it’s just changed our marriage. And the reason was because she starts talking to me and I’m listening to her and I’m, uh… She finishes and I go, “Baby, I… That’s… Your thinking’s really good on that. I mean, I… That’s not the way I think, but I kinda like what you’re saying. Let’s do it the way you’re thinking.”
Crazy. Never would’ve thought. I would not have thought at my age I could switch that, but it did. And it’s much better. And the Lord gave me this little idea, and I’m gonna ask you tonight to consider it. Consider pulling that chair in or however that fits in your home. Do… Grab a stool, grab something. Just sit it down and go, “This is Jesus.” Your demeanor will change. And my goal was, “I want peace with you girl. And I want you to finish life with me going, ‘You are one peaceful sucker. Uh, you brought peace to our home.'” Example number one.
Second thing the Lord laid on my heart, I was walking the beach one day and I did not physically see two cones. I did not physically see two cones. But the Lord laid on my heart and I saw walking on the beach in my mind these two cones were right on. I was on the sand. I’m walking the beach. I walk in about eight miles on the beach. I do that every day. And I’m walking the beach, and I just saw these two cones outta nowhere. Jane is back somewhere. She loves to read a book. She’s sitting reading a book. I’m walking by myself. And these two cones are sitting around like, “Lord, what, what are you… What is this?”
And I felt like the Lord laid this thought on my heart, and it’s for you. It was for me, but I’m just sharing it with you tonight. You’re learning from my mistakes in this session. I did not treat my wife with great peace, and I wanted to finish my life with her. We’re in the last third of our life and I wanna finish really peaceful with her. And I ask the Lord, “Show me how and I’ll do it. I want our candle to burn well to the end.”
And I saw these two cones, and I said, “Lord, what is that?” And the Lord laid on my heart. There’s no turtle doves, nothing, no- nothing hit me in the head. But it’s just this idea came to me. The Lord laid on my heart, “Dan, this is Jane and this is how I made her. This is, this is how I established her. And you’ve spent a lot of your life trying to change or rearrange the way I… ‘Jane, if you just do this, Jane, oh, oh no, that’s not good enough either. Try this. You know what, you know if you just act this way, if you just say this to me, if you could just…’ Dan, you’ve spent a lot of your life moving her cones. Get your hand off her cones.” Not the other one, thi- this cone here.
I just felt like the Lord said, “Get your hands off her cones. Let me work on her, you pray. You trust me.” How many of you in this room, come on, don’t raise your hands or anything right now, but how many of you in the room even today tried to readjust your spouse and go, “If you had just, if you just…” And the Lord’s like, “Dan, I made her the way I made her on purpose for you. It’s to get you deeper in me, to help you see things about yourself and Me that you don’t understand. And if you need to align her so that she’s exactly like you want, you won’t learn some things I wanna teach you. So let Me work on her and you love her the way I made her and for who she is.” Oh.
Somebody here today was a adjusting one on the way here. And when you do this all day long, you ready? You do this with your spouse all day long, let me tell you what they feel. Inadequate. Invalidated. “I’m not good enough. I bet you wish you had married somebody else. I’ll never make you happy.” And that’s not what you want them to feel. But it’s what you create by constantly trying to change ’em. You say, “Well, Dan, they need to change.” Let the Lord work on them and you pray. Radical idea. Let the Lord work on them and you pray.
Since we’ve been doing this, I would say really common for Jane to look at me and say to me, “Not now.” Now that I don’t try to adjust her all day long, really common for her to say, “Baby, is there anything I could work on and do better?” What the world? It’s because she’s more at peace. When you’re at pea… Listen to me, when you’re healthy, you can work on things. There’s some of you in this room tonight. I- I’m telling you it’s normal, ju…. Some of you are so unhealthy ’cause you’re struggling with your own identity because you’re trying to find your identity in your spouse, etc. You can’t. Your identity is in the Lord. He is your creator, your spouse is not. When you find your full identity there, then you put this in your proper place.
Let me tell you something about marriage. In our culture, in our world, we’ve almost elevated marriage I think too high. Let me tell you what I mean by that. The ultimate goal of this life is not to be married. That doesn’t mean you made it in life. If it does, then our Savior missed it. So keep your Savior first, put marriage in its proper place and then do it to the best of your ability because your candle has a purpose. Three chairs, two cones. And the third little idea of the Lord laid on my heart was so good for me.
I grew up in a home of, of yellers. Whoever yelled the loudest got the most attention. And Jane and I getting into a disagreement, it would get loud. And the Lord laid on my heart this… I was reading scripture one day and I got to thinking there is no place in scripture, no place in scripture I could find. I began to search the word trying to find it. There is no place in scripture where someone said something or did something to Jesus that got Him to react where He was out of control. No one ever pushed His buttons. He pushed His own buttons. In fact, if you remember standing before the Roman Emperor, they’re all [inaudible], “Do you know who I am?” And Christ’s response is, “Um, only who My Father allows you to be.” I mean, that’s a good one right there.
And I look and I go, “Wow, this guy never lost His cool. Nobody ever knew how to push His buttons.” And the Lord just laid on my heart, “You don’t have control of your buttons. When Jane says this, you just react. Why you do… Why don’t you get control of yourself?” And I began to do what I call the third idea the Lord laid on my heart, three chairs, two cones, half-tone is what I call it. The Lord began to lay on my heart, “The next time you’re really frustrated or upset, instead of raising your voice, lower it to half your normal volume.” So if you’re upset, “Babe, I just need to share, I’m really upset.” Like say it really soft. So I did.
Jane and I were talking about something as we were working through all this stuff, trying to grow as people. And I just said to her, “Honey, I’m… This is really upsetting me.” She’s like, “What do you mean?” I’m like, “I just… I’m just everything… Ooh, I’m just really upset.” “Well, you don’t act like it.” Oh, if you could see me inside, I’m so upset.” And then I felt like the Lord said, “And if it gets worse, if you, if you keep boiling in there, whisper.” So I’d be like, “Now I’m really bothered. I’m gonna go out and get in the car and take a little drive. I see you in a little bit.”
Soft voice, ’cause Jesus always had control of His volume. And he’s my example and I wanna learn from that. And I’ve been doing that. So I’m really upset, doesn’t happen very often, I’ll be like, “I… I’m gonna step outside a minute. Love you.” You know, just get away a little bit. ‘Cause it calms you down if you calm yourself down. And lemme tell you what it is. Like self-control against self-control, there is no law. If you have control of yourself, like your… Some of you in here, your spouse knows how to activate your button. And I want you to go, “No, no, I’m not doing that anymore.” And be careful you who know how to activate. Try to lose that. Soften that.
John: What great wisdom today from Dan Seaborn on this episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And we’re gonna conclude his presentation next time.
Jim: Yeah, and we’re running long here. So let me quickly close with this. We think this message from Dan is so critical to a healthy marriage we want you to have it for free. We’re including it in a collection of audio downloads called Nurturing the Heart of Your Spouse. It has five hours of encouraging content for your marriage, and you’ll find it at our website. And I also strongly recommend Dan’s book, The Necessary Nine: How To Stay Happily Married for Life. It’s the perfect follow up to this show. And please get your copy from us here at Focus, where the proceeds go right back into helping bring hope and joy to couples who need it. You can bless other marriages by giving to Focus on the Family and will send the book out to you for a gift of any amount. And right now, special friends of this ministry who believe in the importance of strong marriages and families are offering to double your gift dollar for dollar so that you’ll have twice the impact. This is a great time to give.
John: Yeah, donate today online at FocusontheFamily.com/broadcast or give us a call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. That’s 800-232-6459. When you’re online with us, be sure to access the Nurturing the Heart of your Spouse Collection. Next time, more encouragement for your marriage from Dan Seaborn.
Dan: How do you build a deeper relationship when it’s never been modeled for you? That’s why today I’m challenging you to take your marriages to another level ’cause I want your kids to see something better. I want this culture to see something better.
John: Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
