Focus on the Family Broadcast

Excerpt:

Kevin Harney: But we said, “Wherever God puts us, uh, we just deeply desire that he would use us there.” And that whoever is near us, whether it’s an apartment, a trailer park, a neighborhood, uh, to say, “God, could you let your light shine in natural ways?” And that- that’s the key, is natural.

End of Excerpt

John Fuller: You’re going to be learning some great avenues for sharing your faith in simple, natural ways, from Kevin Harney and his wife, Sherry, on today’s episode of Focus on the Family. Thanks for joining us. Your host is Focus president and author, Jim Daly, and I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, I think we, as Christians, sometimes overthink Evangelism. We want to be lights for Christ in this dark world, of course, but there are so many reasons we don’t. Uh, maybe we’re busy with kids at home or our weekdays are long and draining, or we simply feel like we don’t have the gift of Evangelism. That’s why I love Kevin and Sherry’s approach to sharing the Gospel. As you’ll hear in the conversation today, Sherry doesn’t feel like Evangelism comes naturally to her, but their family has found ways to use simple everyday things, like refrigerators and swimming pools as ways to share the love of Christ with their friends and neighbors. We’ll explain more in a minute (laughs). Uh, but we recorded this broadcast a number of years ago, and I wanted to share it again to help you team up with your spouse and kids. And as Paul says in Ephesians, “Make the most of every opportunity.”

John: Absolutely. And uh, Kevin and Sherry serve on staff at Shoreline Community Church in California. They’ve been married for over 30 years and have three adult sons and two grandchildren, and together they’ve written a book called Organic Outreach For Families: Turning Your Home Into A Lighthouse. And we have that, of course, here at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Let’s go ahead and join that conversation as Sherry answered Jim’s question about how, although Evangelism may come easily to her husband, it feels like quite a stretch for her.

Sherry Harney: Well, I think that between the two of us, that happened. Uh, Kevin is an Evangelist; I am not. That’s not one of my gifts, but that’s one of the things that we talk about in the book, is how those of us who maybe don’t consider ourselves as, as the gift of Evangelism, that we’re all called to be the light-

John: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: … in the world. And in Matthew 5 it says that you are the light of the world. Jesus said that about us.

Jim: Yeah.

Sherry: And so, all of us are called to shine that light.

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: And so, we hope that through our book, we’re encouraging families on how to be that light.

Jim: Sherry, let me ask you this, because I so appreciate that vulnerability, because it… You know, people go, “Whoa, you’re not comfortable with Evangelism?” It’s almost like Code Blue in Christian talk.

John: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: But how do you… Um, how did you work that out early in your marriage? Were you every uncomfortable?

Sherry: I… Very much so, and I think that, that is actually where our passion to write this series of books on Organic Outreach came, realizing that there are some people who are gifted Evangelists, and some are not. And how do we train people like myself to have this passion and this ability to, in a natural way, share the love of Jesus? And so, basically this is what moved us, is the, the gap between-

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: … the two of us-

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: … to write the series.

Kevin: And to bring to comfort to your listeners about, studies will show that 95% to 97% of Christians don’t have the gift of Evangelism.

Jim: Wow.

Kevin: 95% to 97%, but we can all love.

Jim: Right.

Kevin: And we can all listen and care, yeah.

Sherry: Well, it’s even… When you look at the spiritual gifts, some people have the gift of generosity, but we’re all called to give.

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: And some people have gifts of service, but we’re all called to served. And it’s very much like that with Evangelism, that there’s some people who have the gift of Evangelism, but we’re all called to share Jesus.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: Well, and let’s, let’s bend into the book then, and the content in Organic Outreach–

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … because in there you’re talking about how to make your home that lighthouse.

Sherry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: Did you decide that on your honeymoon?

Sherry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: Did you the two of you, as a young couple, say, “Let’s make our house that’s a beacon for the lost and bring people in”? How did that get going? Where did you get traction-

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … saying, “Okay, this is what we wanna do”?

Sherry: I think honestly, um, it started when we were engaged.

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: Don’t you think, Kevin?

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: Uh, and, uh, we have an interesting story, because Kevin just had this big heart to serve God, do anything for Him, at any cost.

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: And I was more cautious.

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: And uh, so actually what had happened was, we were engaged, I was living in Ontario, California and he was living in Pasadena. And he called me one night and he said, “Hey, Sherry, uh, I just want you to know, I’ve, I’ve, um, I’ve been able to minister to this guy off the streets.”

Kevin: (laughs)

Sherry: And Kevin, I’ll let you finish it, because you-

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: … you remember it better.

Kevin: And this wasn’t unusual for me. I, I was still a somewhat new Christian and I didn’t grow up with faith, so I read the Bible, I just tried to do whatever it said. So, if people came and knocked on my door and wanted money, I’d give them money. If they wanted food, I’d bring them in and I’d feed them. If they wanted clothes, I’d open my closet and I’d say, “Take whatever you want.” And I wasn’t thinking about how this might impact when you’re married someday (laughs).

Jim: Right.

Kevin: And so, this guy comes to my door and, and he was in a rough time, a young guy, and, and he, uh, knocked on my door and he asked if he could have some food and I gave him some food. And I ate mostly Top Ramen and baloney those days. I, I was broke, and so-

Jim: It was easy to say, “Take my food.”

Kevin: Exactly (laughs). Yeah, that was easy. There was no steaks in the freezer. Uh, so, we, we had a meal together and he hung out at my house for a while. And then he actually, uh, um, you know, he asked if he could stay the night. And uh, and I said, “Sure, I’ll be here tonight and I’ll, I’ll let you stay the night.” And then I think… Did I call you before or after that?

Sherry: Well, all I remember is I got the call that this young man was gonna be spending the night with Kevin. That was not a good moment for me-

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: … because I… It was the first time in our engagement or our dating that I actually thought to myself, “Can I marry a man who just lets anybody off the street into our home overnight?” I had images of our… You know, raising a family, having kids, and we have all these people just coming that we don’t even know.

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: And I questioned whether that was safe. If we don’t these-

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That’s a fair question.

Sherry: It was. And it was such a big concern for me that night, because I loved Kevin, I wanted to marry him. I remembered actually… Um, I’m just gonna say it. I ended up throwing up.

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: I was so sick to my stomach, because I thought, “I know we want to be this family. We had already been talking about it. We wanna be family that, that reaches out, but is this part of that?”

Jim: Yeah.

Sherry: And so, anyways, I spent the night sick.

Kevin: (laughs)

Sherry: Kevin spent the night-

Kevin: So, the guy stayed the night and I was alive in the morning and, uh, and so, uh, then I had to go to class. I was a student going to seminary, had to go to class. And so, I told him I was gonna head to class. He says, “Well…” He said, “I’ll just stay here while you’re gone.” And I had enough sense to say, “Well, that’s probably not…” I could probably come back and everything could be gone. I didn’t have a lot, but I thought… You know, so I said, “Well, listen…” You know, and it was actually a triplex that my grandmother owned, and I was in the front one and she was in the back one. I was in Pasadena, so it was the little old lady from Pasadena, that was both of my grandmothers living in Pasadena.

Jim: (laughs)

Kevin: True story. My grandma and my granny lived in Pasadena my whole life growing up. So, I said to him, “Well, why don’t you go do something else for a while? And then come back in about four hours when I- my class is done and you can come back and we’ll have some dinner or something.” And he said, “Okay, great.” So, I headed off to school, he left. And I gotta tell you, I, I pulled in from school and there were two police cars in the back of the triplex at my grandmother’s place. And I thought, “Wow, I wonder if she had a heart attack or something.” I didn’t know what was going on. And I… And it never crossed my mind, I didn’t put any pieces together. I went to the back and she’s sitting there with the police officer kind of kneeling by her and she’s, you know, pale and sheet-white and upset. And, and another officer comes out to me and he said, “I need to talk with you. One of your friends assaulted and robbed your grandmother.”

Jim: Oh.

Kevin: I still didn’t put the pieces together. I thought, “One of my friends? What- who of my friends would do that?” And he said, “Yeah, the gentleman who’s been staying with you, he used your name and said he was staying with you and he was a friend of yours, and he asked her if he could use the bathroom. And when he came in, uh, he stole a bunch of her things and then…” And thank… By God’s grace, he hugged her and kissed her, and she felt very- it was very inappropriate, and then he left, and he didn’t do anything else. So, I was so thankful for that.

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: And I stood there, and I had to rethink-

Sherry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: … what it means to be a lighthouse home.

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: Does it mean you open your door to everybody at all times, no matter what the cost? Or is there a place of wisdom and discernment and prayer and boundaries? And I’d never thought about that before, and that changed the trajectory of our journey together. And we still were committed to this, but we had to think about, “How do you do this when you’re gonna be married, when you have children-

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: … and how do you still lay it all out for Jesus, but also stay alive to lay it out tomorrow, too?”

Jim: Uh, let me as you this. Um, it is very transparent, and I appreciate that. And I think just about every Christian couple will have this discussion, especially when kids arrive.

Sherry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: And if you’ve been in that modality of wanting to be Christ to those around you-

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … and bringing people home for dinner and things like that, you start… Every wise wife and mother will (laughs), you know, will start thinking, “Wait a minute-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … I’m putting my little ones at risk.”

Sherry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: Especially in this day and age, where the culture, the value system is-

Sherry: Changing.

Jim: … uh, changing.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: And you know, it’s not Mayberry R.F.D.

Kevin: No.

Jim: Um, let’s talk about that. What are some of the practical ways, over the 30 years that you’ve done this, that you’ve learned that it works best? So, what do you do that, that does minister to people-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … that doesn’t put you at too great a risk, and that gets the point across in terms of the Gospel?

Sherry: So, when we look at whatever we have and whatever we do out of our home, how can we leverage that for the Gospel? And so, for instance, when we were raising three boys, one of the things that we found out is that boys love to eat (laughs).

John: Pretty much eat and sleep, yeah.

Jim: Yeah.

Sherry: So, how could we leverage that for the Gospel? And one of the ways that we did it was, uh, we had a basement in Michigan. When we, we were raising our boys in Michigan, we had a basement and it was just an open area for the kids to play, but we, we bought a refrigerator, and we put a refrigerator downstairs and we put food in it. We didn’t spent a lot of money, but we had a line item in our budget, food for neighbor boys, you know, for the kids. And-

Kevin: And sometimes it would be 20 or 30 kids at once.

Sherry: Yeah.

Jim: Oh, my goodness.

Sherry: And we-

Kevin: It was like locusts just standing on the land (laughs), and then when they’d leave it’d be gone [crosstalk].

Jim: It sounds like a Sam’s Club moment.

Kevin: Yeah (laughs).

Sherry: But we found this to be a great way to reach out to the community, because word got out. You could get free food at the Harney’s. And uh, and we would… We had a cabinet too that we stocked, not a huge amount of food, but cans of soup and different things like that. And the thing that was, I think, so neat for the boys and their friends, was the refrigerator in the basement was theirs.

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: And anybody could go into it at any time and eat what was ever there. And that, for some reason, that was a huge draw for the boys.

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: They felt loved. It’s kind of that, that idea of that refrigerator rights.

Jim: Yeah (laughs).

Sherry: You know, whoev- if you let someone into your refrigerator, you’re saying to them, “You’re a part of our family.”

Jim: Yeah.

Kevin: But I’ll say a word about boundaries. We had a refrigerator upstairs, which they did not have rights to (laughs).

Sherry: Right.

Kevin: Because if they did, all of our food for our… You know, Sherry would go grocery shopping and then it would all disappear. So, we said, “This is your refrigerator, this is your cabinet. Whatever’s in it, you can have.”

Jim: And that’s living in Michigan.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: You were in the same cul-de-sac for 17 years.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: I think that’s pretty cool.

Sherry: Yeah.

Jim: That’s a little unusual, but, uh, yeah, what were some of the…

Sherry: So, another thing that we were able to leverage for the Gospel was when we decided to get an above-the-ground pool, not a fancy… It was low cost. And this was a time… You have to understand, this was 20 years ago. And a lot of people didn’t have above-the-ground pools. So, when we got ours in our neighborhood, it became the spot that everybody wanted to come to. And, and-

Jim: It had to be.

Sherry: And, and again, that creates a dilemma. So, how do I share this? How do I leverage this for the Gospel, but maintain safety-

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: … uh, you know, because I can’t spend all my days watching kids swim. And that was a struggle for me. I have to say, I sought the Lord… We didn’t… I didn’t have books like this to go to. And as I, I prayed, I said, “Lord, you know my heart. You know I want to have certain boundaries, but I want to use this for you.” The Lord gave me this idea. We had one day, we designated one day, and this was during the Summer months. We made it Tuesday, and we told all our neighbors that from 1:00 to 5:00, anybody was invited, as long as they brought a babysitter or a parent, another adult that would be responsible for them. But what happened is, word spread that Tuesday afternoons you could go swimming at the Harney’s. It wasn’t a big pool, but lots of people came and they brought their parents, they brought their babysitter.

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: And every Tuesday afternoon during the Summer months, we sat together, watching our kids play, swim, and conversations about God came up.

Jim: Yeah.

Kevin: If, if we are gonna be in the presence of Jesus, if we… If our home is gonna shine with the light of Jesus, number one, we have to be around occasionally, because we’re gone from our home so much these days. You know, we have to be around occasionally and then when we’re around, we have to have an open spirit, even when we’re tired.

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: And there were times where Sherry and I would, uh… Where we just… It was kind of… You know, part of it was, “Boy, we love doing this.” Sometimes it was just flat out ministry. It’s that, “This is our calling.” And you go, “Well, you’ve been min- you’ve been ministering all day long.” “Yeah, and now we’re gonna minister all night long.” And one of the things that we talk about is the fact that we’re… And we’re good about a rhythm of Sabbath once a week, but we talk about when we’re gonna really get to rest, someday where we really get to rest, probably when we get to Heaven (laughs).

Jim: Okay I’m exhausted.

Kevin: That’s true that’s part of our journey. I’ll, I’ll tell you, one more neat, uh, issue of kind of where we learned about boundaries in serving is that when I would go out in front of our house with our boys, we had a little front lawn, not a big lawn, but a little front lawn, and there were how many boys in our cul-de-sac?

Sherry: 11 under 11.

Kevin: 11 under 11, early on. And then the kids from the other streets would start to… They’d see us doing something and they’d come over. So, I’d go out with my three boys to play, and before you knew it, there’d be 11, 12, 13, 14 boys there. And we’d… And I’m a big kid, so I’d organize soccer games and basketball games. I’d come up with all different fun things to do, and that was fun for me. You know, and again, usu- usually after a busy, full day, but I’d come home in the summers, usually in the evenings, time to play. But one day after we hung out and played with all the neighborhood boys, one of my boys, I don’t remember which one, pulled me aside and he asked this question. He said, “Dad, could we ever just play with you?”

Jim: Huh.

Kevin: I said, “What do you mean?” He says, “Well, every time we go outside to play, it’s, like, 10 or 15 kids and, and, and it’s great, but could we ever just play with you?”

John: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: And I was like, “Okay, yeah, good question.” Boundaries again. Loving, serving boundaries. And so, I, I said… The next time all the boys came over from the neighborhood, I said, “Hey, listen.” I said, “Every so often, uh, we’re gonna have, uh, Harney family time. And when it’s Har- Harney family time, you can’t come over. But after Harney family time’s done, then you can come over.” And, and I was worried, like, they’d feel all bad and hurt and stuff. They’re like, “Oh, okay. Great. Is this Harney family time?” “Yes, it is.” They all took off.

Jim: (laughs)

Kevin: So, a couple days later, I’m out with the boys, they come running over. Like, halfway across the street they go, “Is this the Harney family time?” I’m like… I look at my boys and they’re like, “Yeah.” I say, “Yes, it is.” And then they go, “Okay, well, we’ll come over later.” And they didn’t feel bad at all. They just-

Jim: Yeah.

Kevin: They just heard the boundaries and they… But what happened with my boys then, is that they knew there were times that were just for them and then times to play with the neighbors. And so, so-

Jim: Right. It communicated a lot to your sons.

Kevin: Yeah, it did, to our boys, and to the neighbors. They learned something about boundaries too, I think. So-

John: Yeah. Well, I appreciate your honesty, because, uh, it is an un- uh, an uncomfortable part of, of living a life for Christ, is there are some risks.

Kevin: Right.

John: And uh, you’ve really laid out some good stuff, uh, some very practical steps for doing this naturally and authentically, uh, in your book, Organic Outreach For Families. Uh, we have that available at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast, as well as the CD or download of our conversation today. We’re talking to Kevin and Sherry Harney on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

Jim: Does a story stick out for you? I mean, I could have easily been one of those boys coming to your house.

Sherry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: Because I, you know-

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: And we would have loved you.

Kevin: (laughs)

Jim: It was broken. I came from a-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … really dysfunctional situation.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: And so, you know, I would have loved to have known a neighbor-

Kevin: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: …. that would let me swim in their pool-

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … and go over there. Um, would you intentionally look for that-

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … boy or girl who-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … seems a little bit in trouble?

Kevin: They found us.

Jim: Yeah?

Sherry: Oh, yes.

Kevin: We didn’t have to look.

Jim: And how… What does that-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … discussion look like? How would they open their heart to you?

Sherry: That was probably one of our biggest challenges, uh, is ministering to children that were troubled.

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: You know, for multiple reasons; wanting to help them, but also wanting to protect our children as well, because we know what influences do to children. That was probably our biggest challenge-

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: … is, how do you love some of the kids that are troubled and are, from what we could tell, going in the wrong direction?

Jim: Sure.

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: And now we are letting our kids-

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: … with them.

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: And that was-

Kevin: And inviting them into our home.

Sherry: And inviting them in our home, and-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: That’s a faith step.

Sherry: And encouraging our boys to hang out with those kinds of kids.

Jim: Wow, that is very, uh, challenging.

Sherry: It-

Jim: I could see that.

Sherry: It was the-

Jim: Because we try to protect today’s-

Kevin: Yes.

Sherry: Absolutely. And that was the, I would say, our biggest challenge. And one of the things… The way that we did it, is we… Early on, we let our children know that they could hang out with anybody they wanted. We would tell them that, “You may…” Because we’re- we would tell them, “We’re the light of the world. We have good news to share. We want you to hang out with anybody, but you may hang out with anybody as long as you are light-

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: … as long as you’re the influencer. But we want you to know that when we see that their darkness may be influencing you, we will pull you out.”

Jim: Hm. How… Let me ask the million-dollar question. Your kids are grown now-

Sherry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … your three boys. How are they doing?

Sherry: Oh-

Jim: Spiritually, how are they doing?

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: All passionately love the Lord.

Jim: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: Isn’t that interesting?

Sherry: Yes.

Jim: You take a risk, you put your kids-

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … and you coach them to launch.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: I mean, that’s what you really were doing.

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: Right.

Jim: Because they’re gonna get into the world-

Sherry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … at some point, and they’re gonna experience people that use bad language, that, uh, use drugs, that use alcohol, that have premarital sex. I mean, that is the environment. And yes, to the parents, that includes Christian campuses.

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: Christian schools, you know?

Sherry: Sure.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: And to prepare your kids to engage, I, I like that. That takes courage, though.

Kevin: Well, and I’ll tell you, it was messy. Um, it was challenging, uh, because, uh, one of our boys, uh, the circle of friends he hung out with were… Uh, I think only two of those kids actually graduated from high school. Uh, one ended up in prison. Not just jail, but in prison. And, and then there were some great stories of God’s redemptive work in the kids’ lives as well. But it… So, it was a mixed bag.

Jim: Sure.

Kevin: And there were times where we had to say, “Okay, we’re drawing boundaries, we’re pulling you out, because we’re seeing the influence hitting you.”

Jim: Well-

Kevin: So, it wasn’t always clean and easy.

Jim: Yeah, and I wanna-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … I wanna respond to the gasp from the moms. And I can hear moms (laughs)-

Sherry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … gasping out there, going-

Sherry: Sure.

Jim: … “That’s ridiculous.”

Kevin: Yep.

Jim: Um, speak to that mom’s heart. How do you, you know, how do you tread carefully, yet courageously? Sounds like an ox- oxymoron.

Kevin: Yeah, yeah.

Sherry: You have to put the time in. You need to be there in the home. There has to be some level of commitment to be watching. If you’re going to allow your kids to be in the- in those places-

Jim: Well, and that speaks to the parents, right?

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: Cruise control doesn’t work.

Kevin: Mm-mm (negative).

Jim: So, it-

Sherry: It doesn’t.

Jim: It starts making a lot-

Sherry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … of impact on you, in terms of time and observation and being engaged.

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: And so many of us as parents, we want autopilot.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: We don’t wanna be engaged, if we’re really honest with ourselves.

Kevin: Yeah.

John: Well, that goes back, uh, to your opening statement, Kevin, that, uh, too many of us have a bunker mentality and we silo ourselves off from the world. And you’re saying, “No, it’s all about engaging with the world from a Biblical perspective.”

Jim: We’re not good with messy.

Sherry: No.

Jim: The Christian church has become too efficient at being clean-

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … and pure. And I would challenge that-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … but I mean, I think that’s what we think we’re achieving, when what the Lord does, even with the Disciples on the Shores of the Decapolis, when he cast the demons out of the man into the swine, think of that moment.

Sherry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: Because the Disciples didn’t wanna get out of the boat.

Sherry: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: Because in a Jewish context, if they stepped foot on that soil, they became unclean.

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: And Jesus jumps out of the boat and engages the culture.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: And that is such a good picture for us.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: And that’s what you’ve done-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … uh, through that activity. You’ve jumped out of the boat, put your foot down-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … on the Decapolis, the outskirts of the, uh-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … known world at the time-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … in a really ugly situation, and you brought Christ to them.

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: And I, I found that praying on my knees-

Jim: Yeah, I bet you did (laughs).

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: I found myself-

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: … in my bedroom, on my knees-

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: … being honest with God, saying, “God, you know our heart. You know what we’re trying… We’re trying to proclaim the good news, but you know we don’t wanna sacrifice our child.”

Kevin: No.

Jim: Yeah.

Sherry: “And we don’t feel like you’re asking us to do that-

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: … but as long as they can be that influencer, Lord, help us.”

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: I do have to say that for one of our sons, this… He was able actually to be the influencer. The other moms were thrilled. They were happy to have him be the one hanging out with their own kids. These moms were struggling too, with their boys’ decisions. Um, but I do recall one night that I could over… Because I’m still listening and I’m watching, and I overheard what was going on in the basement, and the language was not good. And it had just gotten to the point where I started to wonder if my son really was influencing for good at this point.

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: So, I actually remember that night, I got on my knees. I could hear the language coming up through the register and I, I literally prayed, “How can it be this has been going on for a long time? And if my son is at a point right now where he is not being the influencer, Lord, please help him get caught.”

Jim: Huh.

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: And I have to say that it wasn’t long after that, that we actually got a call from a police officer and he got caught.

John: Hm.

Kevin: Midnight, Saturday night before Easter Sunday and I’ve gotta go pick my kid up from the police.

Sherry: Yeah.

Jim: And you’re the pastor.

Sherry: Right.

Kevin: I-

Sherry: Yeah.

Kevin: Indeed, I was. And still am, yeah.

Sherry: And he was 13.

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: So, uh, we… Kevin and I have a basic, um, parenting principle, that we think kids should make mistakes early on.

John: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: Yeah.

John: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sherry: Give them some freedom so they’re not 18 making that kind of a mistake, they’re 13. And uh, so I actually remembered when the call came, I said to Kevin, “May I talk to the police officer?” And he handed the phone to me and I said, “Thank you. Thank you.”

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: Yeah, that was natural of her.

Sherry: And so, Kevin picked him up.

Kevin: Yeah.

Sherry: And uh, we brought him home.

Kevin: And we, uh, got to have a real good conversation and real clear consequences and he spent some time in front of a judge with dad and mom next to him and got some, uh, community service. And uh, and he also had a whole new set of boundaries and we said, “Okay, you’re not influencing, you’re being influenced.” And so, uh, we pulled him out of that group-

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: … for a season. And uh, you know-

Sherry: And that experience changed him.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative). For the better?

Sherry: Oh, absolutely.

Kevin: Oh, for the better, yeah.

Sherry: It was… Then shortly after that, he realized that, uh, he was making wrong decisions. And we, we let him live with the consequences.

Kevin: Oh, yeah. I… The judge said… I gotta tell you, the judge looked and saw this couple that seemed engaged and caring and, and pretty serious about discipline and started to back off. And I said, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Don’t you back off. You give him everything you can.” They said- he said, “Really?” I said, “Yeah, whatever you would normally give to any kid, you lay it on him.” And our son looked at me and I looked at him, and the judge laid it on him. And he did some community service, some different things, on top of the… My yard never looked better.

Jim: (laughs)

Kevin: I’m telling you, the next month he worked hard. So-

Jim: Well, let me ask you this though, because-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … you know, some parents may be in that same boat and they’ve got, uh, what they would describe in a Christian home as a prodigal-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … or the beginnings of a prodigal.

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: And they may have stood in front of a judge-

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: … with their child, their 13-year-old, and they got home that night and it didn’t go so well, he didn’t respond, or she didn’t respond in such a, a good way, a positive way.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jim: What does that parent do when that actually, um, puts a, a bigger break in the relationship?

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. You know, no easy answers to that, but I think you, you keep praying, you keep loving, you hold your ground. Uh, I’ve watched so many parents that say, “Okay, now you’re gonna, uh, do… We’re gonna have this restriction.” They say, “You’re on restriction for the rest of your life.” Well, that’s ridiculous. You know, what’s, what’s more intimidating is a month, if you really mean it. And-

Jim: And back it up.

Kevin: And back it up. And, and your cellphone gets put in a box and your computer’s off and we’re reading some books together and we are… And you’re doing some yard work and you’re not gonna go to your room and play in your room. We’re gonna walk through… And we… And, and as a pastor and as a, you know, a couple in ministry, we’ve walked with lots of couples and continue to, who go through not just 13-year-olds, but 23-year-olds and 33-year-olds-

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: … who are still wandering. And, and being clear, articulating, uh, what you believe, where you stand, and then just to follow through with love.

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: But to follow through… Man, so many parents, they, uh… Matter of fact, out of that one situation, one of the parents told us their child was gonna be on restriction for, I think, two or three weeks. Two days later, we saw him out, kind of messing around, around town. And I actually called the parent and I said, “Did you know your son’s…” “Well, yeah, he said he was really sorry and he, he said he wouldn’t do it again.” And I was like, “Are you serious? Do you love your kid or don’t you?” And now, they weren’t even a believer, but we had to have a- an honest conversation. If you love your kid, you will follow through.

Sherry: Discipline.

Jim: Yeah.

Kevin: And so-

Sherry: You need to-

Jim: Well, those are good words. Uh, Kevin and Sherry Harney, authors of the book, Organic Outreach For Families. I think this has been really stimulating-

Kevin: It was.

Jim: … just thinking through how to engage those around you-

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … how to put, you know, a bit of risk into your life.

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: And uh, in doing so, honoring the Lord and drawing people closer to him.

Sherry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: Um, it’s gutsy, but it’s the right thing to do. Thanks for being with us.

Kevin: Thank you so much.

Sherry: Thank you.

John: Committing to a life of Evangelism is certainly never perfect or easy, but as Kevin and Sherry have shown us today on Focus on the Family, it is worth it.

Jim: It’s so true, John. And I want to go back to what Kevin said near the beginning of the broadcast, that studies show that 97% of us don’t have the gift of Evangelism. That’s a big number, but there isn’t an escape clause in the Great Commission. Jesus said, “Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations.” Not some of you. And if you’re ready to take that next step as a family, a perfect place to start is Kevin and Sherry’s book, Organic Outreach For Families: Turning Your Home Into A Lighthouse. Love the title.

John: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: And it has the inspiration and ideas you need to team up with your kids and your spouse, and boldly share your faith, no matter what situation you’re currently in. One way to be a light is by joining our support team here at Focus on the Family. Be part of the team. Uh, through this broadcast, at least 800 people each day make a commitment or a recommitment to Christ, and that’s what we’re about. And if you can give a gift of any amount today, I’ll send you a copy of Organic Outreach as our way of saying thank you.

John: The number to call to donate and get your copy of that great book is 800-A-FAMILY or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

John: Well, next time on this broadcast, Kim Meeder will help you draw closer to Jesus to experience his peace and his freedom.

Teaser:

Kim Meeder: Galatians 5:1, “It is for freedom that Jesus Christ has set us free.” And if we don’t have freedom in any area of our life, and I’m pointing my finger at myself, it’s for one reason only: I’m not choosing it.