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Susan Birdseye: My daughter and my son, the 11- and eight-year-old, just completely fell apart bursting into tears and weeping and wailing. And they were, you know, please don’t leave daddy. And my I think my little boy said something about us being poor and living on the street or some, you know, just instantly went- An interesting place for an eight-year-old. Um, so I just kind of gathered them all in my arms and he went up to pack and get some more clothes to leave.
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Jim Daly: So in essence he left you with the rubble of their emotions.
Susan: Mm-hmm.
John Fuller: That’s Susan Birdseye, a single mom of five kids describing the day her marriage ended unexpectedly, and she was facing an unwanted divorce. We’re returning to Susan’s story today on Focus on the Family, and your host is Focus president and author Jim Daly, I’m John Fuller.
Jim: John, last time we shared a powerful conversation that we recorded with Susan. And I was personally touched by her vulnerability and candor about the hardships she and her children have faced as the result of her husband’s infidelity. Think of that, that one bad decision and the ripple effect of it. Susan is living with the tragic fallout of divorce, and she’s one of, uh, too many unwilling victims in our culture today who have been abandoned by a spouse, who walked away from their family and ignored God’s plan for marriage. So it’s up to us in the Christian community to reach out with compassion, forgiveness, grace, to these broken families and help them in any way we can. Thankfully Susan had a church family that supported her, and I would urge you to find opportunities to serve such families through your church as well. And that’s why we’re addressing this difficult but important topic again today, so that we can all be more aware and sensitive to the struggles that families of divorce are facing. If you missed the program last time, get the CD or download from us, uh, or get the Focus broadcast app so you can listen at your convenience.
John: And we mentioned last time that Susan has captured her story in a book called When Happily Ever After Shatters: Seeing God in the Midst of Divorce & Single Parenthood. We have copies of that here for you. Call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY to learn more, or visit focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And now Jim here’s how you began part two of the conversation with Susan Birdseye on today’s Focus on the Family.
Jim: Susan, let me just say it’s great to have you back here.
Susan: Thank you so much. It’s very good to be back.
Jim: I just love your spirit. You, you have a bright smile. Um, I can only imagine the days that you had tears in your pillow, and how lonely that must have felt, uh, when your husband said to you, I’m leaving. Uh, we talked last time about how that came out of the blue. Uh, he simply went to pick up the dry cleaning and was gone a long time and came back and and hit you with that. Your kids were playing in the background. You had to gather, you know, your senses. You had to find out what was going on. And over the course of a few days, it unfolded as he defended and then eventually was forthright with what was happening, an affair with another woman. And then he had to deal with the kids, and he told your kids, as we just heard in that clip the way in which he did it, he told your kids what was happening. You said something that really, I mean it really gripped my heart when you said he didn’t touch them, he didn’t, I mean it brings tears to my eyes that a dad in that moment wouldn’t know the damage he was doing to put his arm around his little daughter and hug her and say I love you, but we’re just not able to stay together. That had to have such an impact on your kids.
Susan: Huge, definitely huge impact.
Jim: Okay. I gotta reset a little bit. With your ex-husband.
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: The emotions that you were feeling. We talked last time about bitterness and how that root of bitterness it really is the differentiator. You can call yourself a Christian, but if you go through trials and tribulations and you come out with great bitterness, you’ve gotta question your walk with the Lord, because that’s not the heart of a believer.
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Even when bad things happen to you. Talk to us about how you dealt with that. There are many men and women that have been wounded in their marriages. Talk to us about how you dealt with that specifically.
Susan: Sure. It is a huge, huge issue because it, it will infiltrate all areas of your life, your parenting to your children. It’s, it’s impossible to hide bitterness. It just seeps into everything if you allow it to. I think there are some steps I, I, I definitely, um, knew God was the source of my strength. And, um-
Jim: Did it ever feel false to you? Like it wasn’t real, but you were saying it anyway.
Susan: Absolutely. There definitely are times when, you know, you’re just walking by faith, you know. And, and there were times where I had to be like it’s not about what I’m feeling, it’s about what I know. It’s about what I know, I know who God is. I know His character. I know I can trust Him; I’m totally not feeling it right now, you know. And so many times cause there are just these mountains and valleys of this, you know. Days where you feel like I, I know in coping with it for myself there would be days when I, I felt, uh, so sorrowful and I just wanted to fix it and I would do anything to fix it. And then there were days I was so angry I just wanted, you know, just to pound something and run away. And, and you just, the range of emotions is profound, what you’re dealing with. But God is just this steady I, I used to say, um, I was, I felt like I was in this rocky, tumultuous water all, all the time, but that there was this steady stream of peace underneath me. Like my feet were in it.
Jim: You could feel that.
Susan: Foundationally I was in it, but the rest of me was like, you know, just a complete mess (laughing). But I knew that God, I knew God was gonna get me through it, it’s just hard to get through it. You know, and I think He, He did bring me through it. It was hard. It wasn’t a month, it wasn’t a day, it wasn’t a week, it wasn’t even a year I mean it’s been a process. I don’t, and I think you’ll have good days, and you’ll have bad days, and you need to recognize that, you know, it’s a process and God is faithful to stay with you when you’re faithful and when you’re faithless. Absolutely knew that to my core. And I think He brought me through, you know, I, I knew I had to deal with anger. I think I would say a big thing with the anger issue is to recognize it as a valid emotion. You have some serious righteous indignation in there. Um, you also have some, you know, I’m gonna hunt you down and well I probably shouldn’t say what I (laughing).
Jim: Yeah, I mean but it’s, it’s honest to have those feelings and those thoughts.
Susan: Yeah, you just wanna do very bad things. Uh, and I, my chapter about anger is slashing tires and other thoughts to take captive because you do, you kind of go that route. I’m just gonna go slash all of his tires and, you know, whatever. Uh, but I knew I had to take control of those emotions cause I knew what that would do, um, to my family. If I was angry, my children would be angry. I just I, I did not wanna raise angry, bitter children.
Jim: Right.
Susan: And I think for me that was a very strong motivation for me.
Jim: And you have to model it for, so they can see it.
Susan: I have to model it.
Jim: Kids in that situation they’re not gonna listen to your words because words will be all over the place. They’re gonna watch your actions, and they’re gonna determine your honesty through your actions-
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And through what they see in you.
Susan: Yes. And it’s a constant battle. It’s a conscious battle too to do that anger, bitterness thing. And you, I would say the one thing is not to allow yourself to be, to make sure that your friends are people who are, who don’t wanna jump into that pit of anger with you. Because your friends feel it so deeply when they’re walking you through this. And sometimes I think they almost take on more of that anger because they wanna go out there and-
Jim: Set it straight.
Susan: Set it straight for you. And I knew I had to make sure my friends, the friends I surrounded myself, that I sought counsel from, were people that were gonna hold me to a higher standard and say I know you’re feeling that let’s not go there.
Jim: Yeah. You wrote about giving your husband an ultimatum. You, you tried for a few days and maybe weeks to-
Susan: Weeks.
Jim: Think it through and to do and to prove to him that we have a chance, let’s try. But then you realize that you didn’t think there was hope and you gave your husband the ultimatum me or her. That takes a lot of courage. And a lot of women, uh, will shrink back from that because they don’t want to hear the answer that they may hear. How did you find the wisdom to make that statement to your husband, to give him that ultimatum? Uh, if you could describe that for us. And in looking back on it, do you think that was healthy?
Susan: Mm-hmm. I sought counsel my pastor, a marriage counselor, uh, friends that I really trusted, people that had gone through difficult circumstances who I knew were prayer warriors who were, and, you know, just truly godly counsel, uh, what to do. Because I think some, even in the Christian community, you get people that are like kick him to the curb. You know, as soon as you find out just, he didn’t deserve you just, you know. And I was like no, I, I, that, that’s not what I feel called to. I, I made a covenant with this man, and until God tells me no, I’m gonna stay. And uh, so I, I really prayed about it. What was happening I, it had been weeks I was trying to convince him to stay. I noticed, uh, that his behavior was not changing for the better. And he was pulling away from our children, he was increasingly distant, and-
Jim: Which was his protection m- method, cause he didn’t want to face reality-
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And really fess up to everything that had gone on.
Susan: Wouldn’t set any boundaries on the relationship with the mistress. And, uh, it just seemed like it was time. And I, I would say what helped me, I had a friend that said, you know, at no point is it hopeless. And I knew that my saying choose to him was not my saying leave. I wasn’t asking him to leave, I wasn’t asking him for a divorce. I was saying choose. I’m holding you accountable for your actions. And there are consequences for what you’re doing. And the consequences are you have to choose.
Jim: Now, when you said that, um, how was your stability emotionally, and what were you expecting to hear and were you prepared for that answer?
Susan: Yes, I was. Uh, I had farmed all my kids out and I had been praying and God was so gracious to give me versus about standing strong and Him being my foundation and not shaking. It was just really interesting the verses He brought me to. And I was just praying God, if this is not what You want me to do, will You please make it abundantly clear when he walks through that door? Just give me a sense of what I, where I need to go with this. Well, he was late, and I suspected that he had been running with her. Um, and he didn’t notice that our kids weren’t there. You have six children, you know, that is almost inconceivable-
John: That would be, that would be immediately apparent when you walk through a door.
Susan: Exactly. Um, and, uh, he was very demanding and very rude, which had not been my husband prior to all of this happening, not that type of person. And uh, he was like, “Well, I’m gonna go take a shower and, and kind of have dinner on the table when I come back.” I was like wow, okay well I guess God just [inaudible] (laughing). So he-
Jim: That’s confirmation.
Susan: He came down and I, he ate dinner and I sat across from him. And when he finished, I said, “I need to talk to you.” And I had prepared a settlement agreement. Uh, it’s a property settlement agreement I think is what it’s called. The marriage counselor had said if you’re gonna give your husband an ultimatum, you have to have something that he signs that says he’s gonna take care of you. Because as soon as he sets his foot outside of the door, any sense of guilt he has is gonna diminish as each day passes, and he will no longer want to take care of you all. I had it on the table with me. Um, he said, “Okay, what do you want? What do you wanna talk about?” And I said, “I want you to decide tonight if you’re gonna stay with the children and me, or you’re going with her.” I said, “If you’re gonna go, I need you to sign this.” And he instantly reached across the table and pulled it to him. And at that moment I knew he was leaving.
Jim: He had no hesitation yeah.
Susan: Uh, and when he left, he said he packed up some more things and he said, “Well, I’m gonna go sleep at the office.” Um, it was very emotional. And, uh, I had friends that were waiting. Uh, I had three couples from church that were kind of up at the Starbucks near my house, and as soon as he drove away, they drove up. And were there for me and-
Jim: Well, that’s, you’ve mentioned that support group several times. How vital is that?
Susan: Imperative. Godly support, people who are gonna encourage you in your faith, who are not gonna encourage you to be angry or bitter or malicious. It’s very easy to go down that road. Um, yeah, absolutely.
Jim: Susan, after the discussion and you slide or he grabs the separation agreement and quickly wants to sign it, uh, there’s a whole new process in place now. Now you’re moving from kind of an emotional environment to a, almost like a business environment where you’re gonna separate your assets now. You’re headed to court, the judge is gonna throw the gavel down it’s gonna be done. Uh, through that process, uh, in your book, it indicates that your husband is not the one willing to do this. Yet he’s created the environment that the ultimatum needs to be put to him. How did you reconcile that? And I can only think of, uh, stories where I’ve heard men that are, they’re almost numb, they don’t want to initiate. They’re fine if you do this to me, if you file for divorce, I’m not gonna do anything. Talk about from that point forward what was happening in your relationship?
Susan: Well, what I didn’t realize that the property settlement agreement when you file it becomes a legally binding document that begins the divorce proceedings in my state. I didn’t realize that. Uh, you, you’re, there’s so much going on and it’s very difficult to keep track of everything.
Jim: Well, nobody typically is an expert in this-
Susan: Yes.
Jim: When it happens.
Susan: Yes. Uh, I did have a very good friend who did become my attorney, a Christian woman. Uh, who wanted reconciliation almost as much as I did, which was a huge, huge blessing for me. Um, and I was, if you can envision it, that person with my heels dug in like I don’t, I don’t want a divorce, I don’t want a divorce, I don’t want a divorce. I don’t wanna do this. I don’t know if this is what God wants me to do, I don’t. And I knew it was that biblically I was okay. You know, I, uh, because Jesus makes provisions for that with adultery. My church was supportive of whatever I wanted to do; they were very much walking me through it. And, um, she kept saying to me it’s never too late, it’s never too late. She was like, “Even if you’re divorced you can get remarried.” She just kept giving me that perspective that you, for me, in my circumstances, in order to protect my children and myself financially, and to make sure that we were cared for, uh, we had to file at that point. And that’s a, a lot of the women and men I have spoken to going through this it, that is such a quandary as a Christian, cause you don’t wanna do this.
Jim: Yeah, you’re trying to take the high road and hope.
Susan: Absolutely. You don’t wanna play this game. I don’t wanna play the divorce game. It’s difficult, it’s time-consuming, it’s painful, you have to keep track of things. Oh, it was just a nightmare. And I, and divorce, I always say to people divorce is not a solution, it is another problem on top of a problem. It doesn’t make anything better. It’s just a whole nother set of problems. But having that perspective that this was just a way to protect my children and myself. It was a legally binding document yes, but it didn’t mean that I was giving up hope. It just meant I, I wanted to make sure the children and I were taken care of, you know, five kids is a lot (laughing)
Jim: Right, yeah, it’s true.
Susan: To take care of. Um, and, and that’s what it did, and God totally protected me through that process. And, um, I did not give up hope.
Jim: And I think in, in a way the guilt there again of the offender in this case your husband, um, they may wanna hang on to the fact well, I didn’t file.
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I wasn’t the one that asked for this.
Susan: Yes.
Jim: But in essence they were.
Susan: Yes.
Jim: Emotionally and in every, every other way. Uh, but it gives them a small out for their conscience perhaps.
Susan: Mm-hmm, yes. And I, I know, uh, you know, divorce is a very difficult topic and cause nobody really knows how to walk through it. You know, we, we each have our individual journeys that we’re doing then. I think seeking godly counsel, um, your pastor, uh, a Christian marriage counselor.
Jim: Right.
Susan: And making those decisions for yourself.
Jim: Yeah.
Susan: And, you know, God will guide you through it. And it’s just like any painful thing in our lives, we walk through it God is faithful.
Jim: And we do know that the scripture’s clear that, that God prefers again that reconciliation would be there. And we’ve had people on the broadcast that have done exactly that Susan what you’ve talked about, they were divorced, they remarried, and their relationship was very strong because it was all out there. They knew each other even more deeply than before. So that can happen and that is God’s preference. But we also have to realize, uh, it doesn’t always work out that way.
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And I would only say to the person who’s saying no, never, never, never, you’re not walking in their shoes perhaps. And, uh, if you haven’t been there and you haven’t had to walk this emotional roller coaster, you may just wanna hold back a little bit.
Susan: Yes.
Jim: And, uh-
Susan: My attorneys, uh, and friends said it takes two people to get married and one person to get divorced. And it’s true.
Jim: Um, what have you found in your own emotions perhaps in friends, both male and female, who have had to struggle through, uh, what I could have done better to hold onto this marriage.
Susan: I think as women, we tend to look at ourselves not necessarily, uh, as a wife but as a woman. What could I have done better? What’s, what’s wrong with me as a woman? Whereas a man it’s very much about his role. What could I have done better? How could I have performed better? I hesitate to say that it’s performance for a man and personality for a woman, but maybe-
Jim: It has that nuance to it.
Susan: More perso- more personal for a woman, more performance for a man maybe that’s a better way to say it. Um, and I think, uh, what has helped me with that, cause I don’t think you want to revisit the past and beat yourself up over your failures or perceived failures in your marriage, because there is no excuse for adultery, regardless of what was going on. There is no excuse. And I, uh, our marriage was good on all fronts I would say, you know. And I think if you talk with marriage counselors often, they’ll say it really and my, the counselor we went to said to me many times, it wasn’t about you. It wasn’t about what you could have done, what you couldn’t have done, what you did do, what you didn’t do. It’s not about that. It’s about him. It’s about him and God. And somebody that I knew, um, that had gone through this, and they were restored. The offender shared with me he said, “You know you give up God first, then you give up your wife, and then you give up your kids.” He said, “You don’t give up your wife first, you give up God.” And the vacuum that you have in your heart that you’re trying to fill with that physical relationship or the emotional relationship or whatever this inappropriate relationship is, is to replace God. So I, I think it’s, it’s important not to beat ourselves up.
Jim: Hmm.
Susan: And try and figure out what went wrong. I think you have to come to the place where you go God, what do You wanna make of me through this? And how are You gonna bring me through this, make me into the woman You want me to be? And that’s a hard process. And there are t- there are definitely some judgmental feelings you sense towards you. Um, you can feel like you have this scarlet letter D all over you, you know, divorced I own that box now on those forms, I have to, I have to click divorced on there, and it’s very painful. It’s very hard, you know, very difficult, challenging, painful circumstances. And to come on this other side and you have this new label that you don’t really wanna have. Um, and I think one of the things that really has helped me is to recognize that, that’s not my identity, it’s my marital status.
Jim: Right.
Susan: And my identity is in Christ. And it’s learning to define myself as a single woman and not as a married woman, as a single mom. Um, and all those things and to see the blessing in it, to see that God can work through these unexpected, difficult circumstances and still make something beautiful out of it. I mean single parenting oh, I do not recommend it, it is very hard. Uh, but I’ve seen God do amazing things. I have blessings every day I can focus on. It’s that, it’s where my focus is. Is my focus gonna be on I went through this really awful circumstance? Is that gonna define me or is the person I became because of that gonna be what I define myself by?
Jim: And, and let me give you a little, uh, definition to that. You can meet people that have been divorced 10 years and they’re still railing.
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: They haven’t moved on from that spot. And that’s unhealthy, isn’t it?
Susan: Mm-hmm. That’s the forgiveness thing. If I forgive, if I allow God to enable me to forgive, if I make the decision. I made, I kind of had to go through a process. I had to make the decision to forgive, that’s not necessarily forgiving. That saying I’m gonna (laughing) I’m gonna try and do this.
Jim: I’m working on it.
Susan: I’m gonna ask God to help me through it, and then I’m gonna act on that. I’m gonna act like I have forgiven you. I’m gonna treat you respectfully and kindly and graciously, even if I don’t feel it, I’m gonna treat you that way. And, and in doing that, it takes the power of that circumstance, that situation, that offense away. I have the right to be angry, but I don’t exercise that right.
Jim: Well, you’re describing, uh, a continuum there, was there a point that you can remember where it all fell together, and you felt that you were forgiving him?
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Did you remember, do you remember the day that boom, it really feels like it’s in my heart now.
Susan: Yes. And I wrote him a letter that day and told him I had forgiven him. It’s a funny thing to be divorced, um, and, you know, he’s remarried. Um, so I couldn’t really call him and go hey, let’s meet for coffee I wanna tell you something because he’s a married man.
Jim: Right yeah.
Susan: It’s the weirdest thing, you know. I was like I can’t go have coffee with my husband because he’s anyway (laughing).
Jim: Yeah, no, I, I-
Susan: It’s just this odd place. So I wrote him a letter. Um, and I told him I had forgiven him. I said I know I will still struggle with anger towards you because of the repercussions on our children. But as far as your relationship with me, I forgive you and I’m moving forward, and I’m going to try and always treat you respectfully. And I wish the best for you. And I’m praying for, that God will do amazing things in your life. And, um, God was so gracious because a couple hours later he te-, uh, my ex-husband texted me, just said thank you.
Jim: Wow.
Susan: Which for me was huge, cause I didn’t think he would even acknowledge it. But that was a little step I thought, you know, for him to say that to me. And that was a, you know, a glimmer of the man I knew.
Jim: Yeah. I mean you’re ve- being very kind, but I mean it, it shows more about your graciousness than anything else.
Susan: Well, it’s a hard fought, it was hard fought it’s not an easy thing. And you don’t decide and just forgive it is a process, and it is a continual at sometimes, you know. I think you forgive the offense, but there is just like with anything you’re gonna have to continually forgive, you know?
Jim: Well and let me ask you this which is attached to that. Um, looking ahead, and I hope this doesn’t happen.
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Um, but you look at your little girl.
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And maybe she’s fast forward she’s 18 now.
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And she’s had a bad experience on a date or something. And she comes home, and it flares up about the loss of her father in that way.
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Um, that will be a temptation to get angry because of the residual effect on your kids from your husband’s decision.
Susan: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Have you thought about that?
Susan: Yes (laughing). Yes, I have, I do think that’s gonna be a struggle. I mean in all honesty, I don’t, I don’t know apart from God just helping me do that, how, how to do that. I, I mean I, there are circumstances, uh, with my ex-husband where he does not see or will not see that this affects our children. He will not see that. He will not admit that he has abandoned his children, will not admit that. And, uh, feels like he is a very good father. And, uh, that the kids are fine. I don’t think he can go there. And, you know, part of that is, uh, I mean sometimes it’s laughable the things he’ll say. Um, and I just have to be a duck (laughing).
Jim: Right.
Susan: Let it slide off my back cause I can’t do anything about it. And apart from the most powerful thing I can do, which is pray for my kids. And, um, you know, pray that God will take this and turn it around and make them stronger, more compassionate, um, faithful individuals, because they have been through this.
Jim: I mean that’s, Susan you are hitting it, uh, so straightforward. And I again, I so appreciate your vulnerability. Susan Birdseye, author of the book When Happily Ever After Shatters. Um, this has been so helpful, and I know many, many people, both men and women, uh, will be helped with the comments that you’ve made. Thank you for being with us.
Susan: Oh my pleasure.
Jim: Here at Focus.
Susan: Thank you so much.
John: What a great conversation with our guest, uh, Jim, over these past couple of days. And I really appreciated how you concluded offering a message of hope.
Jim: That’s right John, we have hope even in the midst of suffering and painful circumstances, because we believe in a God who heals and redeems every situation. Roman 8:28, “We know that for those who love God, all things not some things, all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose.” That’s the good news message for every one of us. And I know God’s got a purpose for Susan and her children in the days and years ahead. And I hope our listeners have been inspired and challenged by Susan’s story to trust God in all things, both on the good days and the not so good days of our lives. But I also wanna invite you to join us here at Focus, uh, to work on divorce prevention, helping hurting couples who may feel like they’ve lost hope for the future of their relationship. What these folks need is godly encouragement for reconciliation and the restoration of their marriage. And with your financial support, we can work together to connect them with one of our caring Christian counselors or, uh, get involved and sign up for our Hope Restored intensives, where we provide counseling over several days to couples who are in desperate need.
John: And the good news is that, that program is so effective, uh, we’ve seen tremendous results through our Hope Restored efforts.
Jim: That’s right. Four out of five couples who go through Hope Restored are reporting back to us two years later, we do a survey, and they’re still together and thriving. And you can be part of that restoration process. That’s 80% by the way.
John: Mm-hmm yeah, it’s a phenomenal program. Join our marriage ministry team here with your gift of any amount to Focus on the Family today. A monthly pledge or one time gift. In return, we’ll send you a copy of Susan Birdseye’s book When Happily Ever After Shatters. And it may be that you know someone who could benefit from reading and interacting with Susan’s amazing story. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459, or you can donate online at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Coming up next time on this program, a powerful story about a former drug dealer who eventually became a pastor.
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Dimas Salaberrios: This guy he was from my neighborhood, he had this beautiful Cadillac, and he was only like 18. And I remember my friend said yeah man, he’s a crack dealer. And then it went into my head crack, that’s the way I could get a car (laughing).
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