Focus on the Family Broadcast

John Fuller: Well, today on Focus on the Family, Kay Wyma is back with us talking about what to do, how to cope with those moments that you’re overwhelmed with life. I’m John Fuller and your host is Focus on the Family president, Jim Daly. And Jim, just last night I had an overwhelming experience, and it had to do with credit reports.

Jim Daly: (Laughs) Oh, no, we’re all sweating.

John: Oh, I mean, they ask these questions, like, you know, 17 years ago you might’ve opened a credit card account with four different companies. Which one was it?

Jim: (laughs)

John: I don’t know.

Kay Wyma: (laughs) That’s the worst.

John: And I end up-

Jim: And if you don’t get it right, you’re done.

John: I end up going, you know, through paperwork. I spend 15 minutes trying to get the right answer, and they say, “Oh, you missed that one.” And so I’ve got to try again. And the next company asks a whole ‘nother set of questions that I’m not prepared for. It’s sort of like, are you kidding me?

Jim: (laughs)

John: I went to bed stressed.

Kay: (laughs)

Jim: We had the same thing. We were doing something, and the guy was asking me what type of van we bought in 2013. I was like… (laughs). I was like, “I- I I don’t remember.”

Kay: (laughs)

Jim: It’s a minivan.

John: Yeah.

Jim: “That doesn’t qualify. We need the make and model.” I was-

John: Life is full of these moments.

Jim: I’m sweating bullets.

John: Yeah.

Jim: But thankfully, today we’re going to talk about how not to be overwhelmed. If you missed the broadcast last time, get ahold of it. You can go to the website, get the download, get a smartphone app, the Focus on the Family smartphone app.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, it was great. Our guest Kay Wyma really hit it out of the park.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And I think she just brought up these stories about her life that resonate with all of us.

John: Yeah.

Jim: Right? Trash flying out of your minivan when you pull up to school. Who didn’t have that experience? (laughs) The embarrassment of it and all those things, and how we live so overwhelmed in this modern age. And we’re going to continue that discussion today.

John: And I appreciate how Kay continually brings things back to God’s truth, because the message of the culture isn’t supportive of who we are and how we’re built. It’s- it’s really very performance-oriented, and, uh, God’s truth is totally different. Uh, stop by our website for encouragement, if this is a struggle for you. We do have Kay’s book, Not the Boss of Us: Putting Overwhelmed in Its Place in a Do-All, Be-All World. We have that book, and additional help for you at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast, or call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.

Jim: Kay, welcome back.

Kay: Oh, my goodness. Thanks so much for having me back.

Jim: (laughs) It’s always so fun to have you.

Kay: Y’all are hilarious (laughs).

Jim: And I want to give a shout-out to your mom and dad, Don and Sue. They are such a hoot.

Kay: They’re the best.

Jim: And I love spending an evening of dinner with them. They’re just so fun.

Kay: Me too. They’re great people.

Jim: Your whole family’s fun.

Kay: They’re… We’re- we’re blessed, for sure (laughs).

Jim: It’s true.

Kay: #blessed. Just kidding

Jim: (Laughs) You should get it.

Kay: (laughs)

Jim: But the… Uh, let’s pick up the conversation… We covered a lot of territory last time, but, um, and a lot of scripture references, which I was grateful for, what God wants for us. You know, it’s so funny. This is really the definition of religion versus relationship with Christ.

Kay: Yeah.

Jim: In religion you’re working your way towards something.

Kay: Mm-hmm.

Jim: It’s what the Pharisees were trying to do, frantically trying to keep the law, so would be good enough.

Kay: Right.

Jim: They were trying to be the A students. And you touched on that last time. And the Lord is saying, “You know what? You’ll never do it perfectly. There’s only one who is perfect. It’s me.”

Kay: Right.

Jim: “God.”

Kay: Yeah.

Jim: “I’m the perfect one. But I’ve created a plan for you to live with me for eternity.” Man, this is salvation. That’s faith in Christ.

Kay: Well, it’s so exciting, because there’s so much that… I mean, it is for freedom, you’ve been set free. And it’s that exciting part, and where you can really live life in technicolor if you’re overwhelmed. ‘Cause it’s like, let’s take overwhelmed and redeem it.

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: You know, (laughs) i- instead of being overwhelmed by all the do-alls and the be-alls, and the have-tos and the shoulds and the woulds and the coulds, let’s actually be overwhelmed by God’s truth. And it says a lot about how much you are loved.

Jim: You know, uh, this fits in with this discussion, because I have a friend who’s a non-believer, and he said, “Man, you guys are worried.”

Kay: Mm-hmm.

Jim: “That really worries me. If you guys are worried”-

Kay: Yeah.

Jim: … “the people of faith that are the fear-not people”-

Kay: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … “if you’re fearing, something must be wrong.”

Kay: Right.

Jim: Isn’t that unfortunate that a non-believer would see that in us as Christians?

Kay: Well, like-

Jim: Rather than boldness and strength and confidence about what the future is?

Kay: I- I do have to say, just even as Christians, we’re just real people too, you know?

Jim: (laughs) I know. That is so true.

Kay: We’re the ones that have actually stepped up and gone, “Oh, by the way, I have messed up. Thank you so much for the Savior.” So even in that brief, you know, there’s… Now, we talked last time about how there’s no perfection. Like, you can’t do it. And that’s the beauty of it. He never said be perfect. He said, “Come to me in my strength, in who I say that you are,” and live in the wholeness and fullness of that. And that’s what’s exciting.

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: And I think that it actually, if we can do that, take those anxieties that, um, you know, they’re legit, they’re everywhere, we’re people-

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: … and put them in the one who does say, “Don’t fear,” the one who says, “You’re going to go through water, but it’s not going to come up over you,” and, “You’re going to go through the fire, but you’re not going to be burned. And by the way, you’re not going to smell like smoke.”

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Kay: You know, it’s like, dare we believe in that going, “I don’t understand what that means?”

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: You know, I really don’t get that.

Jim: Think of the very invitation Jesus makes to us. “If you’re weary”-

Kay: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … “and heavy-laden”-

Kay: Yes.

Jim: … “come to me.”

Kay: Yep.

Jim: ‘Cause he’s going to work that out. He’s going to deal with that with you.

Kay: Yes.

Jim: So you can be light of burden.

Kay: Yeah.

Jim: That’s the whole point. And that is why we should be, uh, a little more, uh, free in the life we live here on this Earth. But let’s get into the content. You’re a mom of five.

Kay: Yes.

Jim: (laughs) And so on a scale of one to 10, how overwhelmed do you feel most days? (laughs)

Kay: It’s so, it’s so funny. Probably less, because, I mean, good luck with five. We don’t… I’m not even sure which way is up.

Jim: (laughs) You give up at some point.

Kay: I know. Or what day it is (laughs).

Jim: But you live the dream, right?

Kay: Right.

Jim: I mean, that’s part of it. And in reality, that experience of being a mother of five-

Kay: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … is what brought you to the great content in your book.

Kay: Oh, yeah.

Jim: That this is out of your control.

Kay: Yes.

Jim: The more you try to control it, the less you’re going to be able to.

Kay: Totally. And I- I think I feel that way… Somebody asked me what- what kind of books that I write, and I- I said, “I think I write on issues that steal the joy out of our lives.” And I- I’m- I, frankly, I’m a mad mother. You know, it’s like, don’t make me mad.

Jim: (laughs)

Kay: Because I’m get, I mean, just stop. And so, like, this topic really had to do with what was stealing from people that I love. And it was stealing their joy by weighing them down with all these pressures and with the stress, with the anxie- anxiety is so high right now, and- and people talk about it.

Jim: Oh, yes.

Kay: The depression is so high. And so even, as believers, um, where do we find the joy? And you have to choose joy. And part of it is choosing what your mind’s going to be on. What are my thoughts going to be anchored on? And I would wake up in the middle of the night, just like, you know, with a gasp, and kind of tick through each kid, what, you know, is it this, is it this, is it this? And I would take whatever it was and put it next to scripture. I love God’s names. If you take God’s names and actually call his names into whatever situation you’re going through, I mean, you literally go straight back to sleep, because his name is protector. Put that in front of somebody that has a bully next to them. You know, and it’s not just flippantly, do it, buy it, and then equip your child in that way, versus succumbing to all the messaging around you.

Jim: Right. And I- I want to get to a practical story-

Kay: Yes.

Jim: … that you had in the book. I think it was your son who, I think you nicknamed Fury.

Kay: Isn’t that terrible?

Jim: (laughs)

Kay: I feel bad for these kids, because they- they didn’t ask for any of this.

Jim: You did-

Kay: So they they do like the incognito (laughs).

Jim: Yeah, it works that way, right? They don’t ha- You don’t call them by their names.

Kay: No.

Jim: Partly to protect them, and partly because these are-

Kay: Really, they won it. So…

Jim: … characteristics they’ve demonstrated.

Kay: Yes.

Jim: So, I can’t wait to hear about Fury.

Kay: (laughs)

Jim: Uh-

John: Sounds like a Marvel action film.

Kay: Yes.

Jim: But he- he mentioned that he had a challenge finding a place to sit at- at the lunch table at school, in the cafeteria.

Kay: Well, yeah.

Jim: What happened?

Kay: It was really messaging that was given to him, and the message, ’cause he was changing schools. He was going from a group of kids he had known his whole life into an environment where he really was, uh, going from 40 kids to 500 kids.

Jim: In grade? What grade to what grade?

Kay: Uh, eighth grade to a freshmen.

Jim: Ooh. The worst possible moment.

Kay: Uh, yeah. So, it’s a hard grade. And um, there was messaging that was surrounding these kids that said, well, you better be a part of a group, because if you’re not part of a group you’re not going to pay able to have a place to sit in the cafeteria. And if you don’t have a place to sit in the cafeteria, you’re toast. And so, uh, he comes home with this stress, and I’m- I was like, what are you listening to? And he tells me that, and I was like, okay, hold on just a second. We’re not going to go that way, because a group doesn’t define you. And you can be a part of a group and being a part of a group is a great thing. But to let your identity be attached to a group is going to be a problem, because the group is going to end at some point. You know what I mean?

Jim: Sure.

Kay: And so, I was like, let’s, we’re gonna back up. And, um, and I told him… Well, ’cause especially in Texas, the group a boy has to be involved with is the football team (laughs).

Jim: Right.

Kay: Which he doesn’t play football. And so that was… And he said to me, “I should be on the football team, but if not that, I need to be on the soccer team. And if not that…” And here comes this list as if there’s a hierarchy.

Jim: “So I can eat lunch.”

Kay: Just to go and eat lunch.

Jim: (laughs)

Kay: Okay. So instead I said to him, because I had said this to my daughter who was ahead of him, “You get your lunch tray, get out of the lunch line, and find somebody that’s sitting by themselves, or someone that there’s an open seat where people look nice. My daughter that traveled that had enough self-confidence actually to be able to go sit with somebody that didn’t have anybody sitting with her, which, let me just say, sounds scary (laughs), but it actually feeds your soul.

Kay: It fed her soul instantly, because she’s helping somebody.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Kay: Whenever we do anything altruistically like that, we feel physically better. It actually made her feel stronger than weaker. And it’s amazing how that played out for her just in that moment, okay? Just a moment. Not every kid could do that. I knew this kid couldn’t. Like, good, he, there’s no way he could do that.

Jim: Right.

Kay: I was like, “Just look for people that are friendly.” So, this kid went to a table (laughs), unbeknownst to him, that was all seniors.

Jim: (laughs) And he’s a freshman (laughs).

Kay: And they all… Yeah, he didn’t know who they were.

Jim: Even better.

Kay: But they looked like the people that he had competed with on the math team that played chess, you know? And so, he asked them, “Can I sit here?” He sat. They became his great friends.

Jim: Oh.

Kay: And we didn’t know anything about it until one of my daughter’s friends, who happened to be in that lunch period, because they had three lunch periods, said, she was like, “How is he doing? Like, did he find a place to sit?” And our friend died laughing, and she was like, “Oh yeah, he’s sitting with a group of seniors. It’s hysterical.”

Jim: (laughs)

Kay: And, um, and so I’m just saying in that realm, you just never know what someone can do that you didn’t think they could do. And let’s, again, be overwhelmed by the truth. We know that we can walk in these situations whole. So try it. If they fail, get back up. You know?

Jim: And I want to ask you, Kay, because I think in our culture today, especially with social media, but also reality shows, I mean, it just is permeating our culture-

Kay: Right.

Jim: … this identity issue.

Kay: Right.

Jim: Identity politics, identity viewing, identity at school. It’s not where you get your identity. I want to make sure we punch that for parents, so they’re doing all they can. I do that with my boys. Where are you getting your identity from?

Kay: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And reinforcing the fact that their core identity is in Christ.

Kay: Yeah.

Jim: But you have to talk about it.

Kay: You do. And it’s part of equipping. And the greatest thing about it is that when you talk about it, guess who gets to hear it? I… When I…

Jim: (laughs) Yeah.

Kay: I- I’m the one that hears it, and I’m like, man, I needed to hear that (laughs). Like, because I might have been thinking that my identity was tied to something that it isn’t. So…

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Yeah, no, that’s good. Also getting to technology, I mean, describe how you’ve been intentional with your kids to seek opportunities to connect with them person-to-person, rather than through texting or other technical ways.

Kay: Well, yeah, because that actually is very powerful. ‘Cause if you’re on your, if you’re on your device all the time, it definitely will suck the life out of you.

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: Anybody, any age, whether it’s a device that’s a television (laughs), or you’re watching whatever’s being fed to you. Because-

Jim: And we know this stuff.

Kay: Right.

Jim: But-

Kay: And it’s an algorithm. It’s sort of, like, of course, you’re going to be seeing things that people know that you enjoy watching. And- and so it’s, like, back out of it, because when you connect to a human being that’s when gold occurs. And it’s sort of, like, one of the things I talk about in the book is, um, finding sacred in the ordinary. And I think technology takes a back seat to so many things that surround you all day, every day, that are ordinary, that feed your life. And one of them is connecting with a human being. So I could go… If I’m on my phone, I’m buying something at the Starbucks or at Chick-fil-A, because we go through that line quite often, I’m just saying (laughs).

Jim: Right. It’s good food.

Kay: And so I can… It’s delicious, but we do go often. And I can just pay and drive away, or I can take that moment and make it sacred by connecting with whoever it is that we’re exchanging goods and money. And- and when I do that it takes that very regular ordinary moment and makes it sacred. We… Just last week I connected with a guy. We actually talked about something that was going on that weekend in the country. I drove through the next time going through, and he a- he stopped and brought it up. And so even in that moment it was so beautiful, because it allows people to be human beings in those moments, and we crave that. And if you’re in that place where you don’t feel like you belong, or your kid doesn’t feel like they belong, connecting with a human being, gosh, it really changes the, um, narrative.

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: Even in those moments.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

John: Yeah. I- I… Craving, I get that. My daughter works at a little coffee stand here, and she just loves to make those connections with people.

Kay: Mm-hmm.

John: And I think folks go to that stand because they get a sense of I’m known.

Kay: Yep.

John: They have a sense of I’m connecting.

Kay: Yes.

John: Even just briefly-

Kay: Gosh.

John: … with this person.

Kay: Yes.

John: And, uh, that’s the reflection of the need for the human heart-

Kay: Yes.

John: … to have relationships.

Kay: Yes.

John: We’re talking today on Focus on the Family with Kay Wyma, uh, who’s written this, uh, really terrific book, Not the Boss of Us: Putting Overwhelmed in Its Place in a Do-All, Be-All World. Uh, call us for your copy. 800-A-FAMILY or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: You encourage families to embrace the ordinary. I like that.

Kay: Yeah.

Jim: I had an accidental experience of that just yesterday. Uh, you know, I got home from a trip. Let me tell you how busy I was (laughs).

John: (laughs)

Kay: Yeah (laughs).

Jim: I got home from a trip-

John: (laughs)

Jim: … and I was, uh, at Jean’s request I was refilling the bird feeder in our backyard.

Kay: I love that.

Jim: And I put a chair out there, and Troy just came out and joined me. And we sat and we just watched these birds. And it hilarious because we, up in the trees, I mean, after putting that feed in-

Kay: Yeah.

Jim: … it was like we had this… You know, what do you call it? A cluck of birds? I don’t know. I mean, they were just hundreds of birds wanting some food.

Kay: That’s so neat.

Jim: But we just talked about it, and God’s nature. But it was very accidental. Is that what you mean by observing the ordinary?

Kay: Absolutely, yes. But you can’t observe it if you’re so busy that you can’t slow down and do it, all right? And so, the stuff that you got from doing that yesterday, you’re still thinking about it today.

Jim: Yeah, it was a wonderful moment.

Kay: And even as you think about it, you’re smiling because it’s like, wow, that was just so beautiful. And you’ve relished in God’s creation, which is phenomenally beautiful, and offers reminders constantly of His provision.

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: I mean, you put the bird seed out there, but you could sit there going, he’s, in as much as he’s feeding those birds, how much more is he taking care of me? You know?

Jim: All that.

Kay: He sees every single thing. And- and we can soak that in, which is beautiful. And if- if we’re racing, we lose sight of these amazing moments. Um, I had, I think I included one in the book of our youngest child, who asked me to walk around the block with him. And I was just, you know, my first-

Jim: That’s great.

Kay: Well, that was not my first inclination (laughs).

Jim: (laughs) No, but, well, how nice of him-

Kay: I was like, “I do not”-

Jim: … to ask you to do that?

Kay: It was so sweet. But I’m just going to be honest with you and say, in the moment-

Jim: (laughs)

Kay: … I- I was like, “No,” like, “No.”

John: Who’s got that time for that?

Kay: Get your sister.

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: You know? Or something. But I caught myself.

Jim: Get your sister? (laughs)

Kay: I know. Isn’t that terrible? Horrible.

Jim: Bad news for the sister.

Kay: I’m just telling you that. I’m being honest with you.

Jim: Okay. I love it, I love it.

Kay: So anyway, in that moment, I’m like, “No.” And then, because I think about this stuff, it’s like, no, I’m not going to let that moment be stolen from me. And so, yes, I will walk around the block with you. And he is the slowest walker. And so, we’re just walking. And of course, he peels over, and he’s like, “Look at this.” And it’s almost like angels are singing in the- the beautiful stream of light. A beam of light is coming down on a blade of grass where there was a butterfly. I’m not joking you. And I just was like, that is so beautiful.

Jim: Yeah, and the Lord’s saying to you, “Come on, Kay, slow down.

Kay: Yes, and it-

Jim: Your kid gets it. What about you? (laughs).

Kay: Well, it just was so… ‘Cause we both would’ve missed that moment-

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: … if we hadn’t done that. And it took something ordinary, walking around the block, and made it sacred.

Jim: So-

Kay: As did your bird feeding.

Jim: So the catch of that, you said very importantly, that you caught yourself-

Kay: Yes.

Jim: … and redirected your energy.

Kay: Right. Yes.

Jim: That’s the key.

Kay: Yes.

Jim: So for the parent who struggles in that moment to say, “Yes”-

Kay: Yes.

Jim: … rather than, “No”-

Kay: Right.

Jim: What’s the advice?

Kay: I think it goes, again, completely being overwhelmed by the truth of the situation. Eternity is so much longer than what we’re saying here. People matter, people matter. Okay? And so, if we’re going to err on the side of anything, please let’s err on the side of people. They’re precious. You know, they have such great dignity. And we are the only part of creation that is created in the imago dei, the image of God. And so I- I really did sit there going, I’m erring on the side of a person, and, uh, chose the person over whatever else I was doing. And I mean, it’s hard to do something where you’re going to use a superlative, but I think every single time it is better to choose the person. And, um, because that’s what matters. In the long run the rest of the stuff will get done.

Jim: So true. I want to get to bitterness, uh, versus forgiveness.

Kay: Yeah.

Jim: Which you covered in the book. Uh, you have a great analogy about a junk drawer.

Kay: (laughs)

Jim: And I want the listeners and viewers to hear about this. You say, we all have a junk drawer for our relationships.

Kay: Yes.

Jim: What are you getting at?

Kay: Man, that is so true, isn’t it? Okay.

Jim: I think so.

Kay: First of all…

Jim: But tell me your definition.

Kay: -thank you. Am I the only person with a junk drawer? I tried to get in it yesterday morning.

Jim: I- I think so.

Kay: Oh my gosh.

Jim: (laughs)

Kay: And how do they get so full? It’s awful. I have a neighbor that they had two elderly neighbors that have agreed with each other, that when they pass away, they will go out and clean each other’s junk drawers before anybody else gets in.

Jim: (laughs)

Kay: Is that not the cutest thing?

Jim: That’s funny.

Kay: And so, the junk drawer is where you take whatever’s on the counter and shove it in there. And you shove it in there because you don’t want to look at it, and you may look at it another day. And I think that’s what we do when we have hurt relationships. We often just shove it into the drawer, close the drawer, and decide we’ll deal with it another day when we have more time. And the issue with that, especially if it involves hurt or pain or discord, is that we don’t deal with it. Because the longer it’s in the junk drawer the less we want to deal with it. And bitterness can start to form. Bitterness loves a fertile ground. I guess it likes dark places too, like a junk drawer, because it grows. And if we don’t get the bitterness at an early stage, those roots get in there and they’re hard to get rid of. And, um, and again, it goes to the freedom, because letting go of bitterness actually gives you the freedom to be able to live holy in other relationships too.

Jim: And Kay, we’re coming in for a landing, and I want to make sure we hit this idea of be-

Kay: Okay.

Jim: … being overwhelmed by hope.

Kay: Yes.

Jim: Um, which you’ve alluded to throughout our discussion.

Kay: Yeah, yep.

Jim: To try to turn a bad circumstance into a good circumstance.

Kay: Yep.

Jim: So, you know, again, how do we trigger ourselves to not be Peter in the garden in that moment?

Kay: Yeah.

Jim: To want to fight back, to let our flesh take over, so to speak, and rather react in a way that the Lord would be pleased with? But, I mean, there’s so many things. It could be the person cutting us off in traffic.

Kay: Right.

Jim: The irate customer in front of the checkout stand-

Kay: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: … who’s really not being very polite to me.

Kay: Yep.

Jim: Um, you can just go through all the stories.

Kay: You can.

Jim: But h- how do we move from that sense of overwhelmed of circumstances, and being overwhelmed by hope? It’s a choice.

Kay: It is a choice. And I think it kind of goes to, like, what lenses are you looking through? You know, because I can look through my own lenses, where I’ve already decided everything. Like, going back to the forgiveness aspect, just the bitterness, I can… ‘Cause those are hard things to walk and hope in, because they, you don’t even want to go there. But if I go to the lenses, where I’m putting them on, and I’ve got a far-sighted, God-centered lenses, then I just might allow eternity to inform today.

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: And if I’m allowing eternity to inform today, there were three words that were spoken that I don’t know why we don’t talk about more. And they’re, it is finished. It’s finished. And so we’re living in the finished work of… Christ said it. It is finished. Every time he came back after the resurrections, the first words that he spoke were, “Peace be with you. My peace be with you.” Why? Because it can be. And so it’s like, if I can go to this place of hope, if I can live in the place where it’s finished, then these things aren’t going to steal from me, because they’ve already been decided, and we can live in the enormity of the (laughs), and the beauty of being a daughter or a son of the King, literally clothed in righteousness. And it’s sort of like, what clothes are you wearing today? (laughs) Are you… Because I’ve either put something on top of my righteous clothing, and I’m trying to be something I’m not, or I’m fully living in it.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Kay: And that may sound like a spiritual term or something. What does that look like practically? It looks like allowing these things, like grades, to have their place. And that is just a place, okay? It’s not going to determine my worth.

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: It just isn’t, all right? And fighting for that, it’s going to do the same for whatever car I drive, whatever job I have, if my kid’s happy or not happy. And to be able to go next to those kids, to be able to say, your happiness lies in the fullness of who it is that takes care of you, believe it, let me help you believe it. ‘Cause I’m not sure I believe it too.

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: And we walk alongside each other.

Jim: Kay, one thing that we all struggle with, especially in a fast-paced, somewhat isolated, modern world-

Kay: Yep.

Jim: … is this idea of being created in His image-

Kay: Yep.

Jim: … for relationship with one another.

Kay: Mm-hmm.

Jim: That this is God’s plan-

Kay: Yeah.

Jim: … that we have relationship. And in the book, you have the observation that God didn’t create us f- for goodbyes.

Kay: Oh, yeah.

Jim: I mean, what a sweet way of thinking about that.

Kay: Oh, man Jim.

Jim: Why do you believe goodbyes are so hard for us? I mean, it- it’s the reflection of God in us, right?

Kay: Yeah, it’s, uh, gut-wrenching. I… Every time a kid drives away to college there’s a part of me that breaks. Um, every time a kid gets a driver’s license it breaks my heart a tiny bit, because I like being next to them. I’ve had very, very close friends go home, and it’s gut-wrenching because I miss them. And it is, we’re created for together, because in heaven we will forever be together. What did Jesus do when he walked this earth? Not alone, never alone. He was always gathering together, together, together, because that’s really what it’s about. And if we lean into that we can even dial down the things we do that cause the discord and the separation, to try and fight for the together, because, that’s, um, that’s really where we’re going to be for eternity. And I know that’s kind of a heady concept, but I have said to my daughters and to my sons, “I think the reason why I’m so sad when you leave is ’cause we really weren’t created to be apart, we really are created for together.”

Jim: I think in the same way. Kay, what’s so beautiful about that is God does not want to say goodbye to any of his creation.

Kay: Yeah.

Jim: I mean, you think about eternity.

Kay: Think how much He loves you.

Jim: Think of that.

Kay: Yep.

Jim: He wants to say hello and welcome.

Kay: Yep.

Jim: And that’s His heart-

Kay: Yes.

Jim: … for each one of us.

Kay: Everyone. And you can actually live that today, live wholly and fully in what you just said. He loves you. He has… Your name and scripture is sought after with a capital S and a capital A. And it’s like, do we live that way? He also says, “I’ve engraved your name and the palm of my hands.”

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: Really?

Jim: Yeah, no, I mean, it’s beautiful.

Kay: Do I matter that much?

Jim: What about your name being in the book of life?

Kay: I love that.

Jim: Yeah. You know-

Kay: And you know, in Revelation it says that when we see him we’ll receive a white stone, and on the stone it’ll have a name that only he knows that he and I know, which is, I mean, that gives me chills.

Jim: Yeah, me too.

Kay: It’s like, could that be true?

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: But we also know from Revelation that there is a name that Christ has that nobody knows. And it’s like, what?

Jim: Yeah.

Kay: And that’s how special you are. And it’s like, please be overwhelmed by that. Please be overwhelmed by the grace, the protection, the provision, the man of provision every single day. Be overwhelmed by those things and live it. And when we can’t, ask him, because he is not afraid of the words, please help me in my unbelief.

Jim: John, what a great place to end our conversation with Kay Wyma today. Uh, this program, and last time, has been so full of the eternal hope and joy that only Christ can bring. And as believers, that’s what we know. Uh, plus I really appreciate the wonderful message of Kay’s book, Not the Boss of Us: Putting Overwhelmed in Its Place in a Do-All, Be-All World. What a great title.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And let me turn to you, the listener. Um, if you’re unsure about your relationship with Jesus, get ahold of us. It would be a privilege to talk with you and introduce you to him. And, uh, we have a free booklet that can help. It’s called Coming Home, and it will explain what it means to become a follower of Christ, and how you can live with him for eternity. That’s why Focus on the Family is here. So contact us today about these resources, the booklet, and, of course, Kay’s book, and we’ll send you a copy of Not the Boss of Us when you send a gift of any amount to Focus. And that’s our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. And if you can’t afford it, we’ll get a copy of the book into your hands. Because it’s not about the money. It’s about making sure that you do have that relationship in Christ. So please get in touch with us right away.

John: Yeah, and what we’re going to do is bundle, uh, along with Kay’s book, a CD copy of the two-day conversation we’ve had with her. And by the way, that little booklet Jim mentioned, Coming Home, is also available as a free download from our website. Contact us about our counseling team if you need someone to talk with. Uh, if you’re in that spot of, um, unbelief, you need some help, uh, give us a call. Um, donate, find details about all of these resources. It’s all at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast, or our number’s 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. Well, have a great weekend with your family, and your church family as well. And then join us on Monday for, uh, that common challenge of opposites in marriage. How do you cope with the inevitable differences between you and your spouse?

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Melanie Shankle: I think that so much of marriage is it’s figuring out here’s a hill I’m willing to die on, and here’s something that I can let go and compromise on.

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