Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Jay Payleitner: If your wife feels your unconditional love, she’s gonna walk a little taller and carry herself with more confidence. If you take long walks through the neighborhood or pedal bike paths or dance at weddings, you’ll both feel a little healthier, and a little more toned and energetic. If you take her places where beauty thrives, you know, museums and national parks and flower shows, she’s gonna reflect that beauty.

John Fuller: Some great advice for your marriage and mine, from Jay Payleitner, who wants to help husbands become more attentive and more intentional for their wives. Thanks for joining us today. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: Wow, John. Intentionality is the key word there, and we’re often not as intentional about our marriage as we should be. I’m guilty of that, and it’s true for both men and women. I would think that men probably don’t do it as well as-

John: We get distracted, don’t we?

Jim: Our wives (laughs). But over time we can easily settle into that routine or the rut. Some might call it a family life, managing the career, keeping busy with the kids, and even serving at church, maybe.

But somewhere along the way, the relationship with, uh, our spouse starts to slide just a little bit, and that’s not a good thing. Strong and healthy families are built upon strong and healthy marriages.

I think, you know, Jean and I have been married 38 years now, and I’m, I’d say in the last few years I’ve got a better appreciation for that. And that’s certainly what drives us here at Focus on the Family. We want to equip you and your spouse to have the best marriage possible. One, because that’s a great way to do life. Secondly, it’s a great witness to what we believe about our faith in Christ.

Uh, today we’re going to be primarily speaking to husbands, but I urge wives to listen in. And, then you may learn a couple things too, because the principles really do apply to both of us.

John: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And Jay Payleitner is an author, speaker, blogger, and radio producer. He is passionate about strengthening marriages, and helping families, and helping you grow in your faith. Here’s how we began the conversation with Jay on today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

Jim: Today we’re going to explore important marriage themes from your book, 52 Things Wives Need from Their Husbands. Now, first of all, Jay, okay, half of us just went, really? 52 things?

Jay: (Laughs). Well, the book is short chapters, guys, so don’t be afraid of this.

Jim: Now, is it one for every week? Is that the idea?

Jay: Well, uh, that’s a good number, 52, because I write short, uh, quick ideas. Uh, and we’re not beating up on dads here. They just kind of look at these ideas as reminders, little invitations to, to make sure you enter your, your wife’s world and, uh, you know, tricks I’ve learned over the years. Some very serious and some mostly, you know, come, some lighthearted things just to say, you know what? Being a husband is not so terrible. (Laughs).

Jim: (Laughs). Well, let’s hope not, uh, but let’s talk about it. You have a very positive view of marriage, but you noted in your book that husbands and wives can begin to drift apart after a few years of marriage. And in fact, you’ve talked to men who are angry and bitter about that kind of drift. Uh, what’s going on in their marriages when they feel that drift? What’s happening?

Jay: Well, my original, uh, personal ministry has always been to dads, uh, working with the National Center for Fathering, and I’ve got five kids of my own, um, and speaking to dads and signing books for dads. Uh, and I would have guys come up to me who were hurting, and it wasn’t their relationship with their kids, although that was their motivation for coming to this event. They would say, “Uh, Jay, uh, my marriage isn’t what I need to be, so I need to work on that.”

And they would say, “I don’t know what happened to the girl I married.” And I just want to grab ’em by the lapels and say, “You know what? That girl you married, she’s asking the same question. She’s sharing your bed, she’s sharing your kitchen, she’s in your home. She’s saying, ‘Where did that boy go?’”

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jay: Now, of course, women, they want a knight in shining armor, A big, strong guy, but they also need that boy they married sometimes. And we get too far away from that.

Jim: Well, it may just be relationship too. I mean, women are strongly motivated toward relationship. Men can become loners. Uh, we can isolate ourselves and kind of drift away. To get back to that point though, uh, what is causing that drift in a marriage? Do kids cause the drift?

Jay: No, I think it’s the fact that we just take things for granted. We need to be more intentional about being involved in the family, in the life of our kids, and in what our bride needs.

Jim: Hmm.

Jay: You know, it occurs to me that I could start an argument with my wife, Rita, every time I walk in the room. I could say things like, um, “Hey, did you know they opened a women’s fitness center down the road?”

John: Oh, not a good one.

Jay: Why do I say things like-

John: I hear where you’re going on that one.

Jay: Why say things-

John: Doesn’t sound like it’s gonna end well.

Jay: Uh, and I’ve said these things. “Rita, when did your mom’s hair start going gray?”

John: Hmm.

Jim: You really said these things?

Jay: Um, well, because it was a curiosity thing. And, you know, notice a little flip of gray hair in her hair. Um, here’s one that you guys who’ve been married a long time will get. “You know, those mugs you bought? They don’t fit in the dishwasher.” Now, women totally understand that because it’s like guys saying, “Sweetheart, you’re dumb for buying those mugs.”

John: Right.

Jay: But here’s the point. No one knows our wives like we do. Uh, Jim, nobody knows Jean like you do. Uh, John, no one knows Dena like you do. Um, so actually one of the chapters in the book, I start with a list of things that my wife, Rita, likes. Uh, things like fireworks and parades and babies and TV commercials with babies, and scones, and fresh flowers, and fresh snow, and frozen Cokes, and drinking straws, and craft magazines.

Now you notice these aren’t expensive things and you guys could make a list for your own wives. And I pledge before everyone listening to Focus on the Family that I’m gonna make sure that Rita has one of these things or some of these things every week for the rest of my life. There’s an intentionality about that, you see. And these aren’t expensive things,

John: You know, Jim, as, uh, Jay’s sharing, I’m just thinking you were kind of, uh, hinting at the fact that routine gets in the way of me expressing as a husband to my wife, how much I love her. And it really is true that when kids come or when you’re working along, um, it’s pretty easy to take each other for granted. You just kind of do life together in your own separate ways.

Jim: Yeah.

John: And I appreciate.

Jim: It becomes a business.

John: Well, and I, so I appreciate what Jay is saying, and that is that I do know Dena better than anybody else.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

John: I just need to take some simple steps toward meeting her where she’s at to say, “Hey, babe, I love you.”

Jay: Well, and the reason for that, you could, uh, finish this sentence. If I give her what she likes, she will… How would most guys answer that?

Jim: Smile?

Jay: Well, if I give her what she likes, most guys would say, she’ll give me what I like. And that can’t be our motivation. A motivation has to be, if I give her what she likes, it gives me joy as well. It goes back to Genesis. You know, two shall become one. We leave and we cleave.

If I give her what she likes, even the little things that seem kind of inconsequential, it gives her joy as well. And guys, you know what? You two gentlemen sitting here and the rest of the world, if this doesn’t make sense, get out a yellow pad or open up a new Word document, and make that literal list of little things that your wife likes, and you go, “Oh, I can do this.”

Jim: Jay, so often we get into our marriage relationships, and we think it’s a 50/50 proposition. And that’s not really true, is it? We need to be a hundred percent on each side.

Jay: Well, exactly that. As you leave and cleave and become one, uh, you’re gonna realize that there are seasons of life where a husband needs to totally sacrifice himself for the sake of his wife if she’s going through a tough time. And vice versa, wives need to sacrifice themselves 100%. Um, and it evens out over the course of a lifetime, of course. But, uh, guys, you know, sometimes you just have to say, what does my wife need in the moment?

Jim: Right. Mm-hmm.

Jay: Uh, and total, uh, self-sacrifice.

Jim: You know, so often, I don’t know if it’s just selfishness, but guys can be really, uh, self-absorbed. And we think, oh, we’ve given it all at the office. We’ve given it all at work. We’re tired, we get home. We don’t necessarily understand that it is a wonderful thing to give of yourself in that moment.

You’ve done something that I found very interesting. You called it Jay’s Winter Chicken Soup.

Jay: (Laughs).

Jim: And, uh, I think that’s fun. In fact, we’ll post the recipe online, okay? How about that?

John: Well, let’s hear about it.

Jim: Except we gotta try it at some point. But what would you do to help Rita, uh, just at the house?

Jay: Well, I mean, I mean, holy cow. I think about how many meals that my wife has made for our family. And you could, again, you could do some more math on that. I’m not talking about KFC or when I’m out barbecuing, which she actually-

Jim: So that doesn’t count to go out to go out and buy pizza?

Jay: Well, um…

Jim: That really deflates me.

Jay: But about, think about the, uh, the times that my wife has called all of the family to dinner with something that she’s either spent 15 minutes on or a couple hours on, and, uh, that is just stunning, uh, that, uh, guys don’t show our full appreciation for that. And so, silly me, in the middle of my book, I put a recipe for chicken soup, um, which is, you go to the store, and you buy one of those $6 chickens that are already cooked.

John: Rotisserie chickens. Yeah.

Jay: Um, rotisserie chickens is exactly right.

John: We…we have those.

Jay: And you… Well, right?

Jim: Do we?

John In my home, we do.

Jay: And you, and you, and you cut it up into little bites and you throw some, uh, some noodles in there, and some carrots and some potatoes, and you spice it up a little bit. Now here’s the problem, though. So many times guys will do that, try to step up to help out around the house. And it’s like, “Rita, where’s this pot? Rita, do we have any bouillon cubes? Rita, do we have, uh, something else over here?”

Jim: Oh, now you’re hitting below the belt.

Jay: Well, now you’re, you’re defeating the whole point of this. Oh, and by the way, guys, if you do help around the house, when you’re done with the vacuum, put the vacuum away. When you’re done-

Jim: That’s a good idea.

Jay: … Working in the kitchen, clean the kitchen up. Um, us guys, we think we’re heroes. Well, guys, don’t ever use the word, “I’m babysitting my kids,” because you can’t babysit your own kids.

Jim: You’re fathering.

Jay: You, well, right. Guys, somehow think that they’re sacrificing when they’re watching the kids. They’re sacrificing when they’re helping around their house. No, guys, I mean, again, a hundred percent. A hundred percent.

Jim: Now, the only thing, there’s probably a lot of guys out there going, oh man, here it is. We’re putting all the responsibility on the guys and how they’ve gotta to do their job better, better. A lot of guilt. Um, but that’s not what you’re saying.

Jay: Well, no guilt at all. This is just a matter of being part of a one-on-one relationship, husband and wife. We’re in this together kind of thing. Um, there’s no guilt at all here.

Jim: Why? But again, back to the question originally, why do we as men get into that routine where we come home tired, we’ve already played their tape recorder in our brain, we just want to get into our comfy clothes, maybe read the newspaper, watch the news real quick, uh, don’t bother me for a while.

Jay: And then we wonder why we plop on the couch. You know, women these days, they work hard all day, too. Whatever their role-

Jim: And most of them-

Jay: … Whatever their role is.

Jim: … Will be working outside the home, possibly.

Jay: So, husband and wife come home, they’re both dragging, and the guy plops on the couch and the wife, uh, has to run the house and probably make dinner. Again, these are traditional roles, but they still kind of unfold that way.

So, guys, um, when a man comes home from work, instead of plopping right in the couch, you turn to your bride and say, “Hey, what’s going on tonight? How can I partner with you in this? Can I help with this?” And she’ll say, “No, I got it.” Then you could plop on the couch.

Jim: (laughs). Maybe she’ll say that.

Jay: Well, right? Or she’ll give you something to do.

Jim: And that’s how you’re violating your own rule.

Jay: Well, no, but then she’ll give you something to do, and that’s all the better then.

Jim: Yeah. I mean, be prepared to do it is the point. Oh, absolutely. Don’t do it with the motivation to wanna plop on the couch.

Jay: Um, you know what, you know what? Sometimes we want, sometimes we really want to plop on the couch.

Jim: (Laughs) Okay, you’re being honest.

John: Is it okay just to say, hey, hon, I had a really rotten day today. Do you mind?

Jay: Um, absolutely. I hope, hopefully she can say the same thing too.

John: I, I’m assuming that at least my wife wants honesty,

Jay: Right.

John: Whether I want to be honest or not.

Jay: Right.

John: She really seeks that. So, you’re saying it’s okay just to level with her at times?

Jay: Well, of course. Um, not 12 days in a row or maybe 12 days in a row. But, uh, the idea is coming home and saying, hmm, how can we partner together?

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, Jay, one of the most controversial things we talk about on Focus on the Family is the roles in marriage in this issue of submission. Submission, for probably good reasons, has become really an ugly word. And it shouldn’t be. Uh, you do something in your book, 52 Things Wives Need from Their Husbands, that was provocative, really, uh, your thought that both husband and wife need to submit to one another. Uh, talk about that philosophy.

Jay: Well, that’s not my idea. That’s really biblical, that we need to submit to one another. Um, you’re talking about, uh, Ephesians 5:22, and any guy, guys, I’m talking to you now. Any guy who quotes Ephesians 5:22 outta context, “Wives submit to your husbands,” and says, “Listen, woman, you gotta do this,” and treats you like… Is a neanderthal. You know, those kind of guys. Or I hope you don’t, but you know, the concept we’re talking about, um, wives submit to your husbands. Yeah, it’s right here.

But like so many portions of scripture that are misunderstood, take the whole thing in context. Back up one verse. Ephesians 5:21 says, “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.”

John: Mm.

Jay: And that whole Ephesians 5 is really a formula for building a family, which is the building block of a society. It’s not taking away rights, Ephesians 5, it’s filling each other’s needs.

You know, husbands, we need to take a leadership role. That’s how God made us. Women need to be cherished and loved. That’s how God made them. And kids need direction. They need to obey your parents. And I challenge you to go home, open up your Bible even today, and read all of Ephesians 5 and even into 6, and you’ll see that it’s really a formula for marriage. Husbands loving your wives as Christ loved the church, and wives submitting to your husband. It’s really, it’s a good formula. It’s something that, boy, if marriages do that, then suddenly everyone’s working together.

Jim: Jay, you talk about another aspect in your book that I want to cover before we end. And that is this area of spiritual leadership. I’m trying to take every opportunity I can to provide that kind of spiritual leadership, talking about scripture, inculcating those lessons through the day. But I think at times, Jean feels I’m not doing enough. It’s, it’s kind of normal. Here I am, the president of Focus on the Family, and I’m doing the best I can. But even my wife says, well, you might be falling a little short in that area. To which I go, whew, where’s the capacity, mom?

Jay: Well, yeah. The book has all kinds of ideas in here, and some longer chapters and shorter chapters. One of the shortest chapters is wives that need their husbands to be the pastor of your home. And I stumbled across this little formula, and it’s do, model, teach. Guys, repeat after me out there, do, model, teach.

And it’s this, be the best Christian you can be. Let your family see you be the best Christian you can be, and teach them, help them, do the same thing. So, it’s really how you live your life. Do, and then model and teach.

John: Yeah. Uh, Jim, there’s an echo there of, uh, the passage in Deuteronomy.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

John: Where we’re encouraged to, you know, in all of life, not just in a special time where we have a devotional as a family, which is hard when you’re traveling or you have teenage kids, and there’s just a lot of scheduling issues. Um, I take comfort in knowing what Jay just said, really, I think is the fullness of that verse. And that is don’t segregate or compartmentalize your spiritual life.

Jim: You’re doing it as you’re living.

John: Let it be a natural part of your relationship with your wife and with your kids. And, uh, and Jay, what you just said is pretty attainable.

Jim: Well, and I think it’s important for wives to understand, uh, how to react in that. Because a lot of wives feel when their husbands are not fulfilling that obligation, they might leave a little note, they might make a suggestion at bedtime, you know. “Honey, uh, I don’t think you hit the mark today.” I don’t know how that conversation occurs. I just know that, um-

Jay: Well, the conversation occurs because guys are, need to be able to say, sweetheart, honey, how could I be a better dad? How could I be your better man?

Jim: Invite the…

Jay: Invite the input.

John: How many guys though don’t want to ask because they’re afraid of the answer that’s gonna come their way?

Jay: Oh, what’s worse is though, is that if the answers, your wife has something that she wants to tell you, and if you don’t get that out on the table sometime, that’s just gonna burn a hole in her heart and burn a hole in your marriage.

Jim: I like, Jay, you’ve referred to this theme throughout the program today, and that is this idea of invitation. To ask your wife, “What can I do to help you? What could I do better in your eyes?” That takes a great deal of humility. And I think you’re on to something there, because I think few of us men are willing to kind of open ourselves to that vulnerability and to really want to hear that answer.

Jay: Well, let’s go back to that whole idea of leadership. If we want to lead our home, one of the great ways to lead is to ask your, the people who you are leading, whether that’s in business or in the family, “How can I help you? What can I do for you to make your job easier?”

Jim: Well, we need a little more coaching in that regard because we can say, okay, tonight I’m gonna go home and I’m saying to my wife, “What can I do for you tonight?” And she says something, and then we react to it. How do we… coach us and how to react to the thing when it, it’s not gonna go your way. She’s gonna say, “Oh, that’d be great. Could you do this?” And all of a sudden you go, “I, I didn’t mean that. I didn’t mean I was willing to do that.”

Jay: Well, literally, you have to be willing to do that. That’s kind of the whole point of this whole thing is that, um, you’re not fighting. It’s not a battle. It’s not a you against her kind of thing. It’s a, it’s a partnership.

Jim: Well, and the irony there in, we do see this in glimpses as men and as husbands. When you do these things, well, I would say to your point, when you do Ephesians 5 well, the irony is your wife blossoms, your wife’s love for you and her natural bent to respect you and to love you, uh, comes into full bloom. It’s so often in scriptures clear that, uh, as a person looks at our wife, they should be able to see, um, the health of our marriage.

John: Hmm.

Jay: Wow!

Jim: Either because of wow, the countenance of her face or whatever. I think that’s a great challenge for guys.

Jay: Yes.

Jim: And guys like challenges. So, when you do walk into that restaurant, people see a smiling bride, someone who looks happy.

John: Mm-hmm. And is happy to be with your husband.

Jim: Oh yeah. Hey, Jay, I think the bottom-line message that I got from your book is, have the long view. You know, marriage, you’re gonna go through seasons in your marriage where it’s dry. Um, I remember one time (laughs) Jean and I, uh, I can’t believe I’m saying this, but Jean and I, you know, I was getting ready. We had probably had a little, uh, serious discussion over something. I can’t remember what it was. Um, and you know, we were fuming a little bit. This is probably many years ago.

And, uh, I remember I looked at her and I tend to want to make up quickly, and oh, I love you, hon. And she looked at me and she said, well, I love you, but I don’t like you right now. (laughs).

John: Mm-hmm. Ouch.

Jim: (Laughs). I mean, she was “That’s the line of lines.” And it floored me. I said, “Well, I wanna be liked. What do I gotta do here? (laughs)? But I mean, that’s a typical discussion after an argument in a marriage, isn’t it?

Jay: Well, I think that, um, you shouldn’t be afraid of falling out of love. If you’re married 40, 50, 60 years, there’s going to be some seasons where you look at your, your bride and say, man, “Where’s that spark, where’s that, that fun little moment that we have? Where’s that boy, kind of thing. Where’s that girl?” Um, but, and I come back, you can’t do a book on marriage without, uh, jumping into, uh, the love chapter, 1 Corinthians 13. You know, “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy.”

But read it in the context of a promise. Guys, you shouldn’t be afraid of falling out of love. You should expect it. And then, read 1 Corinthians 13 as a promise. “Love is patient, love is kind.” Uh, and then towards the end, “It protects, it always trusts, it hopes. Love perseveres. Love never fails.” So, if you really can go back to your wedding day, those first few years of when you were married, and it’s like all the love there, the love, the passion, the commitment, the romantic love. You remember those times, love perseveres. And I think if you made that promise, just trust that you’ll come out of the other end and say, “Oh.” At one point you’ll say, there she is. There’s my love.

Jim: Well, Jay, I don’t want people to hear when you’re in that season to give up though. Because emotionally you can give up and be very comfortable in that corner of your life and not do the things that we’ve talked about here that rekindle the relationship. So, let’s not say we want to be lazy.

Jay: It’s almost opposite. Yeah. It’s almost just the opposite. Um, look for opportunities to be intentional when you get those doldrums of marriage that you expect. So, I, and I in here’s the point. If you expect to go through some tough times-

Jim: Right.

Jay: … Then you’re not gonna panic during them. You’re not gonna flee. That’s not the first instinct is like, I gotta get outta this thing. Well, no, trust love, it’ll come back.

John: You know, Jim, we’ve had those kinds of moments in our relationship where I’m Mr., “Let’s get over it.” And she’s looking at me like, “Are you kidding?

Jim: Dena’s a little more… “Oh, we gotta talk this through,” (Laughs).

John: Yeah. I think, I think Dena and Jean are a little bit alike here. Um, and it’s an uncomfortable place to be as a guy, because I wanna fix it and I can’t.

Jim: Right.

John: You know, I just have to kind of back off, give her some space and say, alright, she doesn’t particularly like me right now. I know she loves me. Um, but it does take some time, doesn’t it?

Jim: It does. And that’s the key. And I think that’s what Jay’s alluding to here, continue to invest in your marriage. And guys particularly, I think guys hold more power in this regard than we give ourselves credit for. And I think the Lord set that up very intentionally.

I think when we’re doing the right thing, when we’re tilling the garden in the right way, and we’re watering those seeds that we plant, it’s amazing how your wife will respond. She is built for that response.

And I think when we look at marriages today, uh, I think a great deal of the harm that’s being done, and I’ll just say it, it’s the guys. I mean, we are not doing the things we need to do, uh, with all the distractions of technology and job requirements. And I mean, we’re letting all of those things rob us of what is our crown, and that’s our wife.

Jay: Mm-hmm. Well, John, you said you gotta back away sometimes and give her a little space, but at that time, you need to be reloading and saying, “What can I do? Not spending lots of money, but you know what? Let’s go for a walk, sweetheart. Let’s hold hands. Let’s, let’s, uh, let’s envision the future together. Let’s remember the past. Let’s envision the future. Um, uh, do what friends do. Do what lovers do.” Do what you did, uh, when before you got married. Do what you did when the kids were little. Um, uh, again, be intentional about just the little things. And again, we’re not talking big money. We’re just talking about a little investment of what she likes and what she wants to do.

Jim: Well, Jay Payleitner, you have done a wonderful job. 52 Things Wives Need from Their Husbands. Uh, it does work out to one a week (laughs), which is a good thing. Uh, but you have reminded us as men what we need to do to invest in our relationship with our wives in order to really honor the Lord first and foremost. And, uh, let me say to you guys, this is something that can help you. This instruction will help you to be the husband you really do want to be.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And, uh, it’ll help clear the distractions and concentrate on the right stuff in your relationship with your bride. So, Jay, thank you for being with us here at Focus.

Jay: Well, Jim, thank you very much, John. Thank you very much. What a privilege.

John: A very encouraging conversation today on Focus on the Family. And Jim, I really appreciated Jay’s message about how those little things that we do, or can do, every day really have a great impact in our marriage.

Jim: That’s right, John. We think we need big romantic gestures like candlelight dinners or weekend getaways. Probably occasionally that’s good. But what can you do or say to your spouse today to let them know how much you love and appreciate them?

And I’m reminded of all the positive comments we receive from husbands and wives the first time this program aired. One woman wrote this. “My husband works far away two weeks at a time. But he calls and texts me to show his support because I work full-time with a toddler. But it goes both ways. I make sure every day I build him up and honor him for the sacrifices he makes for our family.”

And that’s a good reminder, John, that our message today is not just for men. Wives need to be intentional about loving their husbands, too. And we also heard from a single man who wrote this. “This show is encouraging for those of us who’ve never been married about what to expect. Uh, we’re not perfect people. We have to forgive one another and be proactive in our relationships. I’m a future husband, and this show has taught me how to keep a marriage alive and strong.”

John: Well, we love getting feedback like that. It really is good to know that we’re hitting the target for so many marriages.

Jim: That’s why, uh, Focus on the Family is here, folks, to help strengthen that relationship with your spouse. And equip you to be a godly witness through your marriage for your family, friends, and community.

We have lots of resources that can benefit you – our counseling team, our websites, and this book by Jay. Contact us today to get your copy.

And if you send a financial gift of any amount to Focus today, we’ll put a copy of this book, 52 Things Wives Need from Their Husbands, into your hands. And that’s our way of saying thanks for partnering with us to strengthen marriages.

John: Yeah. We also have a free audio collection that we put together featuring some of our top programs on marriage, uh, including today’s interview with Jay, and a program with Patricia Ashley describing what it takes to experience a fulfilled marriage. Dan Seaborn, encouraging husbands to nurture their wives, and then Shaunti Feldhahn explaining how to maximize happiness in your relationship. Get the free downloadable audio collection and make a donation, as you can and get Jay Payleitner’s book as well. All at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Or give us a call 800, the letter A, and the word, “FAMILY.” That’s 800-232-6459.

By the way, if your vacation plans have you passing through Colorado at any point this summer, stop by Colorado Springs and visit our campus. We have so much to do here for you, and we’d love to say hi.

Coming up next time, Ted Cunningham offers a funny reminder to busy moms.

Ted Cunningham: Your children are not your source of life. Don’t find your strength from ’em. You’re like, oh no, my kids fill me up. Yeah, give it a while. You will find out. Nothing sucks the life outta you faster… than a child.