Focus on the Family Broadcast

Preview:

Lee Strobel: Can you imagine, for just a moment, what the perfect father would be like? Just imagine, what would he be like? Oh, well, he’d be gracious. He’d be kind. He’d be your biggest cheerleader. He’d be your biggest encourager. He- he’d pick you up in his lap and give you a hug and say, “Wa… That is the picture of your Heavenly Father.”

End of Preview

Jim Daly: Right.

Lee: Your Heavenly Father is not just a magnified version of your earthly father. He is, uh, uh, fundamentally different. He is the perfect father. He is the father who you long to have for eternity.

John Fuller: Well, that’s Lee Strobel. And he’s our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.

Jim: John, I always enjoy having Lee on the program, uh, just so capable. I love his testimony of being an atheist journalist, and then coming to faith in Christ. It’s, it’s one of the most awesome stories. And it just builds the veracity of what scripture is about and how a life has changed. And he’s down to earth about it too, which is also great.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, sometimes, it’s a challenge to explain our beliefs especially when opponents are saying that God and science can’t coexist. Science is winning the day. We’re bombarded by that message, you know-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … each and every day. But when you peel it back a little bit, I’ve started to realize, “Uh, I think it’s the opposite.”

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I think so much today science is proving God actually does exist. And you hear it in small ways and, sometimes, in thunderous ways. But even the Big Bang, what does that mean? Before was nothing, and all of a sudden something was. And we’re gonna talk about these great concepts today with Lee Strobel. He’s written the book, the title, Is God Real?

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: That’s the number one question of humanity.

John: Yeah.

Jim: It’s what everybody asks. We get a lot of marriage and parenting questions, but the number one question we get is still, is God real?

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And, uh, this will be a great two-day program.

John: Yeah. Lee is such an engaging person to talk with, and, uh, he’s a best-selling author. He’s been on this broadcast a number of times. Uh, we always get a big response from our listeners. Uh, he currently serves as founding director of the Lee Strobel Center for Evangelism and Applied Apologetics at Colorado Christian University. And today, as you said, Jim, we’re talking about his book, Is God Real?: Exploring the Ultimate Question of Life. And, of course, we have that book here at the ministry. Get a copy, uh, when you call us, 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Lee, welcome back.

Lee: Thanks so much. It’s always great-

Jim: (laughs).

Lee: … to be with you. I love hanging out with you, guys.

Jim: It’s so fun. It’s kind of like just sitting on the couch talking, right-

Lee: It is.

Jim: … which is so much fun. And you make it so easy. Thank you.

Lee: Well, thanks.

Jim: You know, really, thank you for continuing to be a humble guy. Now, you might say, “Well, I’m really not, if you talk to my wife.”

Lee: I don’t know what to be humble about… I mean. (laughs)

Jim: But seriously, you are one of those key Christian leaders that has really demonstrated, you know, “I’m just a guy.”

John: Wow.

Jim: And the Lord loves me, like he loves you. And you’ve had a lot of notoriety. And so often, Christian leaders fall-

Lee: Ah.

Jim: … in that spotlight because-

Lee: Wow.

Jim: … pride gets a hold of them. And thank you for not letting that happen.

Lee: That’s very kind of you to say. My wife keeps me in line, you know. We’ve been married for 40 years.

Jim: Well, that’s a truism for all of us, right?

Lee: That’s true. (laughing) And, uh, she, she never lets me forget that, uh-

Jim: (laughs)

Lee: … we started out as, uh, we met when we were 14 years old. We grew up together, so to speak.

Jim: Came to Christ, kind of together-

Lee: Uh, came to Christ.

Jim: … at first.

Lee: She was first. She kind of led me, um, into an investigation that I discovered that Christianity is real, that God is real. And, um… But she keeps me anchored.

Jim: Yeah.

Lee: She travels with me. She’s, uh, she’s my best friend.

Jim: You know, Lee, for those that don’t know your background-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … just a couple of sentences on that-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … you’re, you’re, you’re a hardcore atheist.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: Everything was materialistic to you.

Lee: Right.

Jim: You’re a journalist, investigative journalist.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: So it had to be what can I see, what can I touch, what can you prove to me-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … which does give your testimony so much more veracity-

Lee: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … so much more honesty to it ’cause you weren’t looking for something supernatural.

Lee: No.

Jim: You were the opposite guy.

Lee: Exactly. My wife came to faith through a neighbor who was a Christian nurse who became her best friend and who took her to church and answered her questions. My wife was agnostic. And, uh, I’ll never forget when she gave (laughs) me the bad news that she had become a Christian.

Jim: Yeah. Right. You were angry.

Lee: Angry. I- I- I’ll tell you something I don’t tell normally, (laughs) but I was so mad. First word that went through my mind was divorce. And she had just planted a flower garden in our backyard. And I was so mad, it was time for me to mow the lawn. So after she told me, I was so mad, I went outside, and I mowed down her entire flower (laughs) garden that she planted.

Jim: Do you remember that humble thing I said a minute ago?

Lee: Yeah. (laughing)

Jim: I’m taking that all back.

John: Wow.

Jim: I mean that’s a changed life right there.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: That’s the kind of guy you were.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: When you look at that, I mean again, you put all the investigation aside, the rigorous scrutiny of the resurrection of Christ, uh, those things we’re gonna talk about.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: But who can take that away from you? You are a different person.

Lee: Oh, absolutely. I mean I think of 2 Corinthians 5:17 talks about, you know, when you come to Christ, you are a new person. The old is gone, the new has come. And I look at the direction my life was heading. I was a hedonist. I thought if there is no God, if there is no judgment, if there is no heaven, if there is no hell, if there is no, uh, ultimate accountability, best way to live is to pursue pleasure. And so I lived the very immoral, drunken, profane, narcissistic life. I mean that’s who I was.

Jim: All right. Let’s get into this book, Is God Real?.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: I mean that- that’s a heavy title to be the author of.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: And in that context, I mean you really do believe if a person comes with an open mind not predetermined-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … to battle you.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: But even in that case, that’s okay. But with that open mind, you think a fair-minded person will put the pieces together if they’re seeking the Lord.

Lee: You know, the Old Testament Jeremiah, the New Testament Hebrews both say, “If you sincerely seek God, you’re gonna find him.”

Jim: That’s exciting.

Lee: Yeah. That’s exciting. And I think the key is a openhearted, open-minded investigation. When I started my investigation, I did a couple of things. I said, “Number one, I’m gonna do this like an umpire in a baseball game.” I’m gonna call a ball a ball and a strike a strike-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Lee: … and just let things play out the way they should. Uh, number two, when I have gathered the evidence, I’m gonna reach a verdict. Na… I’m not gonna do this forever. When the evidence is in, I’m gonna reach your verdict. And the third thing I did and this will surprise you, I think, I prayed. I was an atheist. And the prayer I prayed was, “God, I don’t believe you’re there. In fact, I’m sure you’re not. But if you are, I wanna meet you.”

John: Mm-hmm.

Lee: And-

John: Wow. That’s great.

Lee: … I figured, “What have I got to lose, 15 seconds, 10 seconds of a prayer?” And if God is real, then it changes everything.

Jim: Yeah. Why do you think, uh, this question of God’s existence is something humans have, A, pursued for so long? And I guess when I look at it, one of the most profound statements I’ve ever heard on that, you look at all of humanity around the world.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: And you find religion.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: You find five major religions. Most of them, I’d say all but one, are typically things you do to get to God.

Lee: Right.

Jim: You pray five times a day a certain direction.

Lee: Right.

Jim: And, you know, you live a very, um, kind of rigid lifestyle.

Lee: Yes.

Jim: And therefore, you will achieve heaven. I believe Christianity is the only religion if we use that term-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … that is evidence of God reaching out to us.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: That always convicted me.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: And it seemed to be the right thing when God’s the one doing it, not us-

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … trying to do it.

Lee: Yes. I… E- every other religion is based on the, the, uh, do plan, do a bunch of things. Use a Tibetan prayer wheel. Uh, give alms to the poor. Uh, make a pilgrimage or whatever. You got to do a bunch of things to try to earn your way to God. Christianity is spelled D-O-N-E. It’s done. Jesus said on the cross, “It’s finished.” And it is a free gift of God’s grace. That makes it distinctive among all the world religions and, uh, and, and as you say it, it means that we can’t brag about look at all I’ve done, and I’ve earned my way to heaven, you know. And the Bible says, “So no one can boast.” Um, God offers forgiveness and eternal life as a free gift of grace.

Jim: Well, and the positive construct there is that we’re all looking.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: You know, we’re coming up.

Lee: We…

Jim: These are isolated areas that maybe-

Lee: Right.

Jim: … back when these religions were started. There wasn’t a lot of exposure to Christianity. But, but people’s hearts are turned-

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … toward God. That’s the fundamental truth.

Lee: You know, it’s funny, um, the reason I wrote this book is, uh, my publisher actually came to me and said, “We discover something interesting, our tech people.” I said, “What?” Said, “We’ve discovered that 200 times a second around the clock, someone on planet Earth is typing into a computer search engine basically the question is God real.”

Jim: 200 times a second.

Lee: 200 times a second. And I thought if there’s-

Jim: Wow.

Lee: Then, if it goes with what you’re saying, there’s this, there’s this innate, uh, desire in us to find what is our purpose, who is our creator? Are we… Am I alone? Is there a future? Is there an afterlife? Is there more than this world that I see and touch? And, um, so I thought, “My goodness.” And yet as you say, the percentage of Americans who believe in God is now down to its lowest ever, 81%. And yet at the same time, we’re seeing a lot of young people with curiosity about faith with, um, um… I, I have a friend whose ministry is to travel the country and to speak to groups of high school and college students. He said, “I’ve seen more teenagers come to faith in Jesus Christ in the last three years than in the previous 18 years of ministry combined.”

Jim: Wow. And why?

Lee: It’s be… It’s because I think the emptiness that people feel when you extract the belief in God from a culture, uh, people feel that. And they say, “Are we without an anchor? Are we without hope?” Is this all that there is?

John: Mm-hmm.

Lee: I- is there no ultimate right and wrong? Is it all just preference? I mean there’s so much hanging on this issue. You know, if God does not exist, if God is not real, we don’t have free will. We have no afterlife, no hope for anything beyond this world. Uh, there’s all these implications that flow out of that. And I think people when a culture begins to slide in that direction as our culture has, then people begin to say, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.” Um, is there any hope? Is there anything I can grasp onto that can, uh, give me something beyond this world?

Jim: Well, and in that context, I mean we as Christians become very fearful-

Lee: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … when we see that slide. Yet at the same time, it may be the very ingredients that God is going to use for revival.

Lee: Exactly. And I see-

Jim: Right. I mean that’s the irony.

Lee: Exactly.

Jim: But then God-

Lee: We’re seeing these things around the country, these-

Jim: Yeah.

Lee: … little, little revivals breaking out-

Jim: Colleges.

Lee: Y- yeah. And we see it… Um, I saw one ministry had 20% more, young people come to faith last year than the previous year. So there are these good signs that are going on. And I think it’s incumbent on us as followers of Christ to help young people, uh, recognize that we have a faith that is not based on make believe wishful thinking, legend or, um, that kind of thing.. But it’s built on a solid foundation of historical and scientific truth.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Lee: That is what this book is about.

John: Wow. Lee Strobel on today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And, uh, we’re just getting into some of the content of this terrific resource, this book that Lee has written called Is God Real?: Exploring the Ultimate Question of Life. It is a, a fantastic book. We have copies here at the ministry. Uh, find out how to get yours, uh, when you give us a call, 800-A-FAMILY, 800 the letter A and the word FAMILY, or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Lee, uh, as a journalist, I mean you set up interviews probably over your entire lifetime-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … even after becoming a Christian.

Lee: Right.

Jim: So you’re drawing from interviews that you’ve done over the decades.

Lee: Right.

Jim: One person that caught me and you mentioned in the book, uh, PhD in philosophy, uh, Bill Craig.

Lee: Yes.

Jim: And something that he called the Kalam argument.

Lee: Yes. Kalam cosmological argument. Sounds a fancy title, but-

Jim: Yeah.

Lee: … a simple argument.

Jim: Yeah. But I, I love this. This is like Occam’s razor-

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … you know, take everything to the extreme. And is it positive or negative-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … and that usually indicates, you know, what, what is true.

Lee: Right.

Jim: So in that context, Kalam’s, uh, argument, what, what is it-

Lee: It’s very powerful. And, and I’ll tell you what, Jim. If I were still an atheist, this single argument for the existence of God would convince me that God exists.

Jim: Huh.

Lee: This would all I need. Now, I need the resurrection to teach me that Christianity is true, that of, of the various options. But this would convince me it’s a very simple argument. Um, over the last 50 years or so, scientists have come to the conclusion that the universe had a beginning.

Jim: Right.

Lee: Uh, it’s not eternal. It has not always existed. Well, that leads to a very simple argument for the existence of God called the Kalam cosmological argument. It’s very simple. It says this. Number one, whatever begins to exist has a cause. Number two, we now know the universe began to exist. Therefore, the universe must have a cause behind it. Now, you think about that. What kind of a cause can bring a universe into existence? Well, number one, it must be transcendent because it had to be, uh, separate and apart from creation. Uh, number two, it had to be eternal or timeless ’cause it existed before physical time, came into being.

Jim: Right.

Lee: It must be immaterial or spirit ’cause it existed before physical things were created, must be powerful given the immensity of the creation event. Must be smart given the precision of the creation event. Must be personal because he had to make the decision to create, must be creative because my goodness, just look at the wonders of this universe, must be caring or loving ’cause he fashioned a habitat for us to flourish in. And then, Occam’s razor, the scientific principle that says, “Don’t manufacture causes to explain an effect beyond what you need.” You just need one God. So there’d be just one creator. So what have we got? Transcendent, eternal, spirit, powerful, smart, personal, creative, caring, unique that is a description of the God of the Bible.

Jim: Yeah.

Lee: And you go, “That’s… That… This is such an airtight argument,” that n- no skeptic has been able to shoot it down. And, and Bill Craig who is popularized has two PhDs, um, one of the top philosophers in the world. Uh, he’s done debates with, with major philosophers around the world on this topic.

John: Hmm.

Lee: And it is a powerful argument that again just became particularly potent in the last few decades because it used to be that until now, uh, scientists thought the universe always existed.

Jim: Yeah.

Lee: Uh, but, but Christians always opposed that and said, “No, no, no. Wait a minute.” According to the Bible, it began to exist at some point in the past. And that’s exactly what science tells us.

Jim: And it is both interesting, and it should not be alarming that the deeper science goes, the more that we see of-

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … God’s nature and God’s universe.

Lee: Exactly.

Jim: It does lean and push us toward believing that there is a creator-

Lee: I think-

Jim: … if you’re fair-minded about it.

Lee: Yes.

Jim: I saw the Time Magazine when, uh, the Big Bang was, you know, finally kind of resolved. Yes, there was the Big Bang. And they said all of matter may have existed in the size of a golf ball.

Lee: (laughs)

Jim: And what was interesting is that scripture talks about the entire universe being in the hand, and we’re made-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … in the image of God.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: So I mean you could put that together.

Lee: Of, of course. I mean-

Jim: Very subtle point.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: Debatable, of course. But that in the palm of God’s whom we are created in the image of-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … everything existed.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: Wow.

Lee: It’s remarkable. And, and then you look at the way the universe is finally tuned that in a way that, that defies the explanation, “Oh, it’s just a coincidence, or it just happened by chance.” No. It didn’t.

Jim: I list some of those things ’cause-

Lee: Okay.

Jim: … it’s pretty remarkable.

Lee: Well, I’ll give you a couple that are my favorite. Uh, the force of gravity, we all know what that is. You drop something, it’s gonna hit the floor. But the force of gravity could have been set anywhere along a continuum. If you pictured a ruler across the entire universe in, like, 20 billion light years broken down in one-inch increments, that re- represents the plausibly the range along which the force of gravity could have been set anywhere-

John: Mm-hmm.

Lee: … along that ruler. And yet, it’s set at the exact right place so that life can exist. What if we changed it? What if we changed the force of gravity one inch compared to the 20 billion lightyear width of the universe? Intelligent life would be impossible anywhere in the universe. I’ll give you one other example that is probab… This one will just blow your mind. Uh, it’s the ratio of the electromagnetic force to the gravitational force. Now, that’s a complicated deal. But here’s what you need to know. That is finally tuned to one part in 10,000 trillion, trillion, trillion.

Jim: Unbelievable.

Lee: Unbeli… Now, how do you… How do we visualize that? Well, the astrophysicist, uh, Hugh Ross said… Here’s an e… here’s an illustration. Imagine a continent the size of North America piled with dimes all the way to the moon, 238,000 miles. Okay. You got that picture in your head.

Jim: I got it.

Lee: Okay. Now, picture a thousand North Americas with dimes piled up to the moon. Okay. Now, picture a billion continents the size of North America with dimes piled 238,000 miles up to the moon. Now, take one dime and spray paint it red, and mix it among the, the billion continents piled up to the moon, and then take one person and blindfold them, and say, “You can reach in one time, and you can pick out one dime. What are the odds it would be that dime that had been spray painted red?”

John: Mm-hmm.

Lee: The odds are one chance in 10,000 trillion, trillion, trillion.

Jim: Uh, I mean some people, and I’ll get your response to this-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … most rational people will go, “Okay. That’s overwhelming evidence-

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … for order and-

Lee: Right.

Jim: … intelligent design and-

Lee: Right.

Jim: … creator.” There will be someone, a skeptic that says-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … “Yeah. So we found the one dime.”

Lee: (laughs)

Jim: I mean that’s almost insane.

Lee: Yeah. You know, I asked a, I asked a scientist that. Um, he- he’s a PhD from UCLA and a professor of physics at a major university in the Midwest, secular university. And I asked him, “What are the odds that this could have happened just by happenstance?”

Jim: That one dime.

Lee: That one dime. And he looked at me, and he said, “Well, we scientists have a term for that.” I said, “What?” He said, “Ain’t gonna happen.” (laughing) It’s just impa… I- i… When you reach numbers like… And remember, keep in mind, that’s just one dial. There’s 50 to 100 of these dials.

John: Hmm.

Lee: And when you get to those numbers, you can say it is impossible.

Jim: Yeah.

Lee: It is impossible. And so, i- if you just take the, the origin of the universe that we talked about, if you look at the fine tuning in the universe, how does anyone who studies this come to the conclusion that there is not a supernatural creator behind? I don’t know ’cause that-

Jim: Yeah.

Lee: … would convince me as an atheist.

Jim: You know, it’s interesting. I remember when we did The Truth Project, we filmed, uh, Dr. Berlinski. I think he was mathematics at Stanford University at the time. But he said, “You know, the dirty little secret between the biology department and the math department is we don’t eat lunch together ’cause we don’t agree with their models like evolution.” Just mathematically, there was never enough time for that to occur.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: And I thought that was… And he said-

Lee: That’s interesting.

Jim: Uh, you know, people will say to me, “Oh, that you have that bias because you’re a religious person.” He said, “I’m not. I’m agnostic.”

Lee: That’s right.

Jim: But there is no way-

Lee: (laughs) Just-

Jim: … mathematically speaking that, that happened. It kinda points to your-

Lee: Exactly.

Jim: … truth seeker.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: I- speak to that for a moment though in this culture where herd mentality-

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … seems to have consumed us now with technology.

Lee: Yes.

Jim: You had the quarantine. You had, you know… People just moved in a herd.

Lee: Yes.

Jim: And when it comes to worldview and-

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … understanding things, it seems like we’ve lost so many people saying, “Wait, wait a minute. What about…”

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: You know, kind of the skeptic.

Lee: Yeah. Yeah.

Jim: In all areas.

Lee: Right. And that’s true. And it is easier today to come out as an atheist than it is to come out as an Evangelical Christian, for sure, in our culture.

Jim: ‘Cause there’s so much support for it.

Lee: So much sup-

Jim: Pats on the back.

Lee: Exactly. When I was an atheist, you never told people you were an atheist back then, in the 1970s.

Jim: Think of that turn.

Lee: Are you kidding? Oh, people would think you’re a pedophile or something.

Jim: Right.

Lee: You, you just didn’t say that. Uh, now, it’s the in thing. And so our kids go off to college. Um, and they hear things and are, are challenged in their faith by professor. And they come home at Thanksgiving and say, “Nah, I’m not so sure I believe this stuff anymore.”

Jim: Yeah. Lee, we had painted the picture. Let’s go, you know… We talked about the universe-

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … and all of that. Let’s go microscopic-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … because, uh, Jean did chemistry degree, my wife.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: And this morning early, when I was reading the prep and going through the book, uh, one of the things you captured in there which is stunning and, of course, my wife said, “Yeah. I knew that,” (laughing) which is in every cell in the-

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … body, 100 trillion cells-

Lee: Right. Right.

Jim: … we have generally. I’m not counting your cells, John. But you can do that later.

John: Yeah. (laughing)

Jim: 100 trillion. Um, but within each cell, there’s six feet-

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … of DNA.

Lee: That’s right.

Jim: I was like-

Lee: In every cell.

Jim: … “That blows me away as an MBA.”

Lee: Yes. (laughing) Yes. It’s, it’s remarkable.

Jim: I said to Jean. She goes, “Oh, yeah.”

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: I’m like, “That’s unbelievable.”

Lee: It is unbelievable. You open any cell in your body, a cell and unwind the DNA at six feet tall. And here’s the thing. Embedded in that DNA is a four-letter chemical alphabet that spells out the precise assembly instructions for every protein out of which you’re made. So in other words, just like English uses a 26-letter alphabet to spell out words, uh, DNA uses a four-letter chemical alphabet to explain how to create us how-

Jim: Yeah.

Lee: … how, how-

Jim: How to make a heart, how to make a liver-

Lee: How to make a heart. You see.

Jim: … skeletal system. Yeah.

Lee: And it’s just… Uh, there is more information. There are more words in every cell in your body than in 200 years of the Sunday New York Times in every cell in your body. And the question is where did that come from, because every time without exception when we see information, there’s always an intelligence behind it. So e- nature can produce patterns. We know that. I live in Houston, uh, a lot of times… a lot of my time. And if you go down to Galveston Beach on a, on a morning and the sand is wet, you can see ripple marks in the sand. And it is logical to say, “The, the waves made those ripple marks.” Why? Because nature can produce those kind of patterns. But if you’re walking down the beach in Galveston at dawn and in the wet sand, you see John loves Mary and a heart around it, and an arrow through it, you wouldn’t say, “Oh, the waves created that.” (laughs)

Jim: Right. Those are smart ways.

Lee: Yeah. Those are smart ways. They’re intelligent. That’s right. There has to be an intelligent behind us. So whenever there’s a computer code or a book or a painting on a cave wall, there is always, always, always an intelligence behind it.

Jim: Let’s end here. This is kind of whiplash.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: So I wanna prepare the viewers and the listeners-

Lee: (laughs)

Jim: … we’re gonna end with this question because I think it’s setting up for tomorrow’s discussion-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … which I’m looking forward to already.

Lee: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But, uh, you say Easter and you’ve mentioned this in the opening-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … that basically the resurrection of Christ is the defining moment-

Lee: Yup.

Jim: … that Jesus could have claimed to be the Son of God. But if there was no resurrection, there’s nothing special-

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … other than a really good human being that lived a gro- good life-

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: … and taught many good things.

Lee: Right.

Jim: The resurrection is it. You once interviewed Hugh Hefner-

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … from Playboy

Lee: Yes.

Jim: … about this content. And, uh, what did he have to say about the resurrection? I can’t believe you asked him about it.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: But the resurrection of Christ to Hugh Hefner.

Lee: I actually got to interview in the Playboy Mansion about his be- beliefs about God. It was a… I used to have a TV show, a national show called Faith Under Fire. And they got-

Jim: Yeah. No kidding.

Lee: Yeah. No kidding.

Jim: There’s an example of it.

Lee: Right. So here he is in his traditional silk pajamas and smoking pipe. And, and I said, “Well, um, what do you think about the resurrection of Jesus?” And he looked… His eyes got wide. He said “Oh, well, if the resurrection is true, my goodness.” It, it knocks over a series of dominoes that lead to all kind of wonderful things. It means that there’s an afterlife. There, there’s so many things. And, and so I said, “Well, have you ever looked into the resurrection? Have you ever, uh, looked at the evidence for the resurrection?” He said, “No. No. Uh, I just don’t believe it’s true.” I, I don’t believe that, that, that Jesus is more God anymore than you and I are. And so, I go, “Wait a minute. He’s a, he’s a bright… He was a bright guy.” And, and he understood even as an atheist or as a skeptic, he under… he understood the relevance and the implications if the resurrection is true. And yet, he never took the time to investigate. And that is so true of so many of us.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Lee: The greatest lawyer who ever lived, Sir Lionel Luckhoo in the Guinness Book of World Records have had won more murder trials in a row as a defense attorney than anybody in history, knighted twice by Queen Elizabeth, appointed the Supreme Court of his land. And he was a skeptic about the resurrection until somebody went to him and says, “Sir Lionel, you’re the greatest lawyer has ever lived. Have you ever investigated the evidence?” And he said, “No, I haven’t but I will.” And he spent years doing it. And I’ll recite to you one sentence he wrote that summarized his conclusion.

He says, “I say unequivocally that the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is so overwhelming that it compels acceptance by proof which leaves absolutely no room for doubt.” This from the most successful lawyer who’s ever lived.

Jim: Wow. That’s it.

Lee: Yeah.

Jim: I mean for the listener, for the viewer, that’s the question we’re giving you today. I mean Lee Strobel has done a great job putting this together, Is God Real? That’s the question you have to answer. If you’re kind of a lukewarm believer, maybe, it’s real. I mean for Hugh Hefner to say that, “Yeah. The resurrection of Christ, that would change the whole game,” that is a true statement. But then to say, “I never really looked into it,” that’s a lazy statement. So this is the question, “Is God real?” Lee again has done a wonderful job. Lee, thank you for being with us today.

Lee: I enjoy it.

Jim: Let’s come back next time.

Lee: Awesome.

Jim: Um, this is it. Be a part of the team to go and help people better understand the Hugh Hefners of the world to do the research and answer the question. I would love to invite you to get involved with Focus give a gift of any amount. If you could do it monthly, that is great ’cause it evens out the budget. We’ll send you a copy of Lee’s book as our ways of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. And so you get a great resource, you join the ministry, you help bring people to Christ. I don’t see a downside.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So get in touch with us quickly.

John: Yeah. The program description has all the details about how you can donate and get a copy of the book. And, uh, we’ve got a lot of spiritual resources on the website that we’ll link over to as well.

Jim: And John, let me interrupt again. One thing I do often, if you can’t afford it, man, this is eternal life.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So just get in touch with us. We’ll get it to you. We’ll trust others will cover the cost of that ’cause that’s part of doing the ministry. So don’t hold back. You have no excuse not to get this resource and to read it for yourself.

John: Mm-hmm. I hope you’ll keep that in mind, and get in touch with us today. Uh, call us. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459 or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast to find out more. And on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.