Day One
Mom: Hello.
Peyton: Hey, Mom.
Mom: Peyton, I was wondering when you’d call. Are you going to come home for the weekend?
Peyton: Yeah, I was getting homesick.
Mom: Okay. All right. Well, what’s the earliest I can expect you?
Peyton: Um, I figured I would probably sleep in Saturday morning, so, like, whenever I wake up.
Mom: It’s a three-hour drive, Peyton.
Peyton: I’ll also be bringing some laundry. I’m, uh, all out of clean underwear.
Mom: Mm, really?
Peyton: Anyway, so I’ll head over at some point Saturday, then I’ll be out with the guys in town and catch up, hang out.
Mom: Well, how long do you expect that to be?
Peyton: I don’t know, Mom. I never get to see my friends when I’m back home.
Mom: Well, we want to see you too.
Peyton: Oh, I almost forgot. My girlfriend will be stopping by at some point too.
Mom: Hold on, girlfriend?
Peyton: Speaking of her, that’s her on the other line now.
Mom: Huh, Peyton? Peyton, are you there?
End of Preview
Day Two
John Fuller: (laughs) Oh, my. That phone call sounds a little too familiar, probably. Maybe you have an adult child, and you’re trying to understand and work through the dynamics of that relationship. Uh, it can be tricky. Well, we’ve got lots of practical insight, advice, and encouragement for you today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: John, it’s always fun when, uh, our guest is hitting something we’re living. And you and I are both living this, right-
John: We are, indeed.
Jim: … with adult, 20-something kids? And you’ve got some a little older than that. But, uh, you know, we talk about the boomerang kids and some of those kids that are needing, in some cases, to come back. And then, how do we manage that? Or maybe they’ve not left yet. I think I’ve got boom and rang.
John: (laughs)
Jim: I’ve got one out, and one that’s, uh, not ready yet-
John: Yeah.
Jim: … to do that. So, you know, this is just part of the parenting experience. You’ve got, you’ve got something similar?
John: They’ve all had a tour at home.
Jim: (laughs)
John: Some welcome-
Jim: A tour of duty.
John: … and some less so.
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: Well, this is the reality where a lot of us are living. And I hope, uh, if that’s your spot right, you’ll lean into this discussion with our great guest. He is, man, one of the most formidable Christian authors and a wonderful guest here at Focus on the Family, and we want to leverage his insights. He’s written a great book, Your New Life with Adult Children (laughs). It does … I’m laughing because it just hit me. Your New Life (laughs), right?
John: (laughs) Uh-
Jim: It’s a change.
John: It is a change.
Jim: And I can’t wait to get into the content.
John: Yeah. Dr. Chapman is a pastor, author, speaker, counselor, radio host. Uh, he’s been here a number of times. He’s written more than 25 books. And, uh, as you said, Jim, the book we’re leaning into today is called Your New Life with Adult Children: A Practical Guide to What Helps, What Hurts, and What Heals. Great title. Get a copy of the book from us. We’ve got details at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Hey, Gary, welcome back to Focus.
Dr. Gary Chapman: Well, thank you. It’s great to be here.
Jim: I’m just laughing, thinking that, “What am I gonna say next?” It’s kind of like, “We’re so glad you’re here today, Gary.”
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: (laughs) I mean, it’s funny when you’re living it, right? And, uh, you know, so many parents, even with that subtitle, A Practical Guide to What Helps, What Hurts, and What Heals, it’s, I’m hearing, you know, clean up on Aisle 7.
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: All those things that we did that weren’t that productive as teens, and now we’re getting, uh, probably some of that back now. But let me say, so many parents contact us with that anxiety about adult children, uh, because they’re making the choices that we, as parents, hoped when they were little, they would never make when they were teens. We’re on our knees praying, “Lord, help them with their decision-making.” Anybody pray like that?
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: (laughs) You know, help him with his friends, Lord, all those kinds of things. But you say parents should avoid blaming their child and to first consider their own mistakes (laughs) so that-
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: Uh, pointing the mirror right back at us, right?
Dr. Chapman: Well, that’s based on what Jesus said. You know, can you p-
Jim: Okay. Okay. Let’s add that weight.
Dr. Chapman: Why are you trying to get (laughs), straighten them up? Behold, there’s a plank in your own eye. And that doesn’t mean that we’re responsible for all of our adult children’s decisions, no, no, no, no. But it does mean that we ought to at least reflect upon our past and what we did or did not do that might be contributing to something that our adult children are now doing. And, and there is a place for us to apologize to them if we realize there are some things, places where we failed them.
Jim: Do we, should we … I think it’d be a good exercise, but you know, so often, we use that, that, um, statement that, you know, the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree. When we see these behaviors in our kids, we should really look first and say, “Okay, did they learn that from me?”
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Right?
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. You know, one of the most sobering questions I ever asked myself when our children were growing up is, what if my children turn out to be like me?
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Chapman: What if they turn out to drive like I drive (laughs)-
Jim: (laughs).
Dr. Chapman: … to treat their spouse the way I treat my spouse?
Jim: Mm-hmm.
John: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: You know, and on down the line. And some-
Jim: Wow.
Dr. Chapman: … of the significant changes I made along the way were when I answered that question for myself. You know?
Jim: Yeah. The, uh, the other aspect of it, and I think this is what’s so hard for us as parents, yeah, you know, you are nurturing these children when they’re little. You’re taking them to school in elementary school, the carpool. These are all affectionate things in my memory, you know, dropping them off or having them jump in the car very excited to see Dad in the pick-up line. And then, then it’s junior high, and maybe you’re not as excited to see them (laughs)-
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: … and high school, etc. But, um, you talk about the most common mistakes parents can make with adult children and the … for example, overprotection or micromanaging. That’s probably cutting really close to a lot of listeners and viewers right now.
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: That 21, 23-year-old, um, we can tend to continue to micromanage them and not let go. I guess the question is, A, why is that so hard? It seems right when you read it in a book.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: But it’s hard to do.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. Well, you know, I think, by nature, as you said earlier, we want our children to have the best possible life. As Christians, we want-
Jim: And we’re going to make it happen for you.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. And we’re gone make it-
John: (laughs)
Dr. Chapman: Yeah, and we’re gonna make it happen. And there’s no question about it. When the children are little, we have to do that because they can’t do anything by themselves. Yeah, but we want to be thinking in terms of this child is gonna have to be independent. At 18, chances are they’re gonna go to college, join the military, or hopefully, get a job, or something. You know? And so, here they are now at 20 years old, and we’re still jumping into whatever situation they are and telling them what they’re supposed to do.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: And w- we build a wall between us. They, they resist that. They push away from that. And consequently, we’re not having a positive influence on them when we do that, but we do need to have a positive influence. We can’t change our adult children in their decisions. We can’t control them.
Jim: Right.
Dr. Chapman: When we do, we lose the opportunity to influence them. So, I think if parents realize, yes, I want to have a positive influence on my adult children, but I can’t control them. We have to give them the same freedom God gives us to make our own decisions. And let’s face it. God’s first two children made a poor decision, and we still suffer from it (laughs).
Jim: Right. I mean, right? He was not … you know, He’s perfect, but in that context, you know, that His kids chose unwisely.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And, uh, that wasn’t under His control. It was their control. But that’s so hard to process as a parent. I mean-
Dr. Chapman: It’s true.
Jim: … it, it’s-
Dr. Chapman: But he had to let the- he let them suffer the consequences.
Jim: Correct.
Dr. Chapman: Took them out of the garden. And we have to allow our adult children to suffer the consequences.
Jim: Yeah. You have an example of a couple. I’m sure you’ve changed their names, Steve and Linda in the book-
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … who had a daughter who struggled. Describe what she, the daughter, was going through and then (laughs) what them, as the parents-
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … had to go through.
Dr. Chapman: Well, what they did when she went off to college, they took all, paid all of her bills in college, and they gave her a credit card to buy whatever she wanted to during the college years. Okay?
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: Well, she finished college. She gets a job, and she, uh, has a roommate, and they r- are renting a, a place together, a g- a g- a friend of hers. And, uh, one day, the parents get a call from her roommate saying, “I know you all care deeply for your daughter, and I just think you need to be aware of this, that she’s, for two months now, she hasn’t paid her share of the rent. And she … I loaned her some money, and she hasn’t paid me back.”
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Chapman: “And I just think you all need to be aware of that.” So, the parents thanked her, which they should have.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: And then they had the conversation with their daughter, you know, and just kind of shared, you know, what they’d been told. And, uh, uh, uh, and then also, not only did they hear that, but the gal would come, the gal would come home every two weeks and bring her laundry for her mother to do her laundry.
Jim: Uh.
Dr. Chapman: And then, she’d have dinner with them that night. And so, uh, they shared with her, you know, what they had heard, and they, they said, “You know, we began to realize that we really failed you in some ways. Uh, here you are at this age, and you don’t even know how to do laundry. And you don’t know how to cool. And you don’t know how to manage money.”
Jim: Hmm.
Dr. Chapman: And in the conversation, you know, she said, “Well, I just feel like y’all are very disappointed in me.” And they said, “No, we’re disappointed in ourselves-”
Jim: Hmm.
Dr. Chapman: … “because we realize that we did not teach you these things, and these are things … just skills that everybody needs to have.”
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: “And so, if you’re open, we’d like to try to make up for that now. We’ll try to learn how to do that now. So, rather than your bringing your laundry here for us to do, it’s okay if you want to bring it here if you don’t have any machines at where you’re living.”
Jim: Yeah, but you do it.
Dr. Chapman: “But you do it.” You know?
Jim: (laughs)
Dr. Chapman: “And then, while you’re here, we want to teach you some skills about cooking-”
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: … “uh, because it will, it’s gonna help you in your life. And, and then we want to talk to you about some money management things and, and money management-”
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: … “skills. In fact, we might even find a class that we could all take on money management together, you know, maybe at the local college or something.”
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Yeah, that’s good. You know, Gary, that reminds me. I can’t remember his name specifically, uh, but that former Navy SEAL Admiral who gave that commencement speech and talked about make your bed.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Remember? And he said, you know, “One of the things that we look at with people who can succeed is when they can do these, what most people would consider mostly mundane tasks.” But get up in the morning and make your bed.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And this isn’t about the not scripture about (laughs) Godliness, cleanliness is-
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … next to Godliness because it ain’t in there.
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: But, uh, but the point being these little routines that we can sometimes overlook because we’re looking at the big picture. Where’s the character? Are we doing devotions together? Do they love the Lord? And those are the things we aim for. But sometimes we forget th- to teach the little things that take a young adult in the right direction, like make your bed, like-
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … do the laundry, those things. Do, do you find that in your counseling that-
Dr. Chapman: Ab- absolutely.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: Absolutely. And you know, here’s an interesting stor- the end of that story. The gal, young gal gets married eventually, and her husband feels like he’s got a treasure. This girl can cook.
Jim: (laughs)
John: (laughs)
Dr. Chapman: This, this girl can do laundry.
Jim: He has no idea.
Dr. Chapman: This girl can manage money. And he says to her parents, “I hope that if we ever have children I can raise them to be like your daughter.”
John: Oh, my.
Jim: Wow!
John: Wow.
Dr. Chapman: And they, they thanked him, and they got in the car, and they said, “Ooh, isn’t that wonderful?” (laughs)
John: (laughs)
Jim: (laughs) I wonder what that conversation for the young couple was on the way home. Honey, there’s something I got to tell you.
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
John: That’s so encouraging, though, because it’s never too late.
Dr. Chapman: Never too late.
Jim: Right. There’s kind of-
Dr. Chapman: Absolutely.
John: That’s really good. Yeah.
Jim: You know, Gary, the other side of this, so, you know, we’re kind of stressing this idea that the parents have missed some things, etc., etc. But there’s also, and I think I can tend to lean into this, you know? Okay, my kids are over 18. My job’s done. Everything they do is on them, and I’m gonna wash my hands. And, oh, that’s too bad. Oh, that’s too bad. So, h- how do you not become so disengaged that you’re not being a helpful parent in that 20, 30-something space where you should be? I mean-
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … we kind of, you know, adults, we have this weird thing about living on a switch. We’re either all on-
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … or we’re all off.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. Yeah.
Jim: And the Christian faith draws you into kind of a dimmer switch (laughs).
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: You know?
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And, and so speak to that parent that’s done. I’m done, Gary.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. I think, basically, we have to realize that we are going to have an influence on our adult children, either positive or negative, and what we want to do is have a positive influence on our adult children. So, I think rather than telling them what they ought to do, to say to them, “Look, anytime I can help you, I’m happy to help you. Anytime you want my advice, I’m happy to give it to you. But I’m not g- I’m not gonna tell you what to do. I’m not gonna control your life, uh, because, uh, you, you’re at this age. You, you’re, you know, I want you to be independent. But I’m available if you ever want my advice on anything.”
Jim: Yeah, that’s so good.
Dr. Chapman: And chances are, they will ask you advice-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: … on things, and you could have a positive influence.
Jim: I would think the healthier the relationship is, the more of that interaction you’re going to get because the kids trust they can come to you with something that is a deficit in their life.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. And a lot of that depends on what kind of relationship you had before-
Jim: Yes.
Dr. Chapman: … they became adults. You know?
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: Uh, there’s another account I tell in, in the book of a f- of a father who had two, uh, adult young 20s, uh, b- boys. He had- J- Josh and Brad. And he, uh, he realized that when they did come home, they talked a lot with their mother.
Jim: Hmm.
Dr. Chapman: But they seldom ever engaged him in conversation.
Jim: Huh.
Dr. Chapman: And he began to wonder what the problem was, and he talked to his wife about it. And, and they … he decided, “You know, looking back on it, I didn’t spend a whole lot of time with my kids when they were growing up, these two boys.”
Jim: Didn’t develop a relationship.
Dr. Chapman: “Yeah, I was working, working, working. You know?” And so, he, he just sat down with his boys and told them. You know, he said, “I, I’m feeling uncomfortable because I’m realizing, you know, you all feel really comfortable with your mother, and you talk with her freely, but you don’t talk much with me. And I think it’s my fault because I didn’t spend a lot of time in conversations with you all growing up.” And the boys were kind of uncomfortable with that conversation.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: But th- but he said, “But you know, I, if you guys are open, I’d like to spend more time with you as adults.”
Jim: Wow, wow.
Dr. Chapman: “And I’d like to, you know, h- h- have s- more conversations with you.” So, they started having breakfast every other Saturday morning.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: And they started going to, he started going to sporting events with them, and they started having conversations. And before long, several months into it, they started asking him questions.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: You know, about, “Dad, I’m thinking about buying a car. Uh, I’d li- I’d like your advice on this.”
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: You know?
Jim: That’s good.
Dr. Chapman: So-
John: Uh, you’re listening to Focus on the Family with John Daly. And our guest today is Dr. Gary Chapman. And, uh, he’s written a terrific book, You New Life With Adult Children, and we’ve got copies of that here at the ministry. A lot of help for you if, uh, you’re struggling. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459, or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast for all the details. So, Gary, uh, in this book, you’ve got a story about Barbara and her son Tyson. And, um, he kind of was flailing around and, and not getting anywhere after high school, uh, graduation. What can you tell us about that scenario?
Dr. Chapman: Well, let’s face it. There are a lot of parents goo, who can identify with this. You know? The child is trying to decide, do I go to college? Do I go to a, you know, some other type of school? Do I join the military? But in sometimes, they’re not doing anything.
John: Hmm.
Dr. Chapman: Then sometimes, they go to college and come back, and it’s the same thing. You know? And then, so that’s the situation with this couple. And so he’s, you know, living at home. He’s spending time with his friends every night and staying up late with them. He’s sleeping late in the morning. But he’s not motivated to get a job at all. And so, it, it’s, there comes a juncture at which the parent has to say, “You know, honey, uh, I don’t know exactly all that’s going on in your life and all of what your plans are for the future, uh, but I want you to be able to enjoy life. And eventually, uh, m- if you want to get married, get married and have children, and all that. So maybe we need to discuss some of these things together. You know?” Communication is what happened in that family. When they started communicating with that-
John: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: … and finding out where he was and what was going on, then he could begin to take some steps. You know? And we can help them do that. But if we just accept it and don’t have any communication with them, they could be there for 30 years. (laughs).
John: Yeah, I have found a lot of parents struggle with having that initial conversation-
Dr. Chapman: That’s right.
John: … because, like, well, I didn’t expect that a year after you moved in or you never left that you’d still be here. So, it feels like I can’t even really broach the subject. You know, it kind of goes back to what Jim was saying earlier. How do you get into that?
Jim: Yeah.
John: Yeah.
Jim: No, that’s good. Hey, Gary, could you help me, uh, by explaining why it’s critical for parents to acknowledge that adult children have the freedom to choose their own path even if we disagree with, uh, some of those dangerous consequences?
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: I mean, that’s the t- probably the toughest place for us as parents, especially Christian parents.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. Yeah, I think it’s absolutely the toughest place because when they make certain decisions that, in our hearts, we know it’s the wrong decision. We know it’s gonna have, uh, yeah, detrimental consequences in their lives. It’s very painful for, for parents. But I think at the same time, we have to recognize that we have to give them … and we said this earlier … the same freedom that God gives His children to make decisions and make poor-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: And all of us have made poor decisions. Let’s face it. We’re, none of us are perfect. And God allows us to do that. And if we look back on our own lives, some of our biggest lessons we learn by our failures.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: And so, our children may have to learn some hard lessons by their failures as well.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: So, if they make poor decisions, and we have to allow them to suffer the consequences of those poor decisions. Uh, you know, for young, uh, for example, if your adult child gets stopped for driving under the influence and he’s in jail, and he calls you, or they call you and tell you that he’s in jail, I wouldn’t go down and bail him out tonight.
Jim: Hmm.
Dr. Chapman: Let him spend the night in jail.
Jim: Hmm.
Dr. Chapman: And then go down tomorrow and talk to him, then try to decide where we go from here.
Jim: Right.
Dr. Chapman: You know? If you bail him out, then he didn’t suffer the consequences.
Jim: Right. He didn’t feel that-
Dr. Chapman: God-
Jim: … or she didn’t feel that.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. God lets us suffer the consequences.
John: Yeah.
Jim: Y- y- you offer some specific guidelines about how parents and young adults should negotiate expectations and responsibilities at home. Uh, what does that guideline discussion look like?
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. Well, I think if the young adult comes home, and he’s moving back in, that is the time to have a conversation about, okay, we’re happy for you to be here. Let’s talk about how we can make this work best for all of us.
Jim: Yep.
Dr. Chapman: And so, we’re gone share … we’ll share some of our concerns and thoughts. You share some of yours. And let’s make some decisions here on how we can, what, make this beneficial for all us-
Jim: Uh-huh.
Dr. Chapman: … because that’s what we want. You know? And starting it early rather than waiting three months before you bring up a conversation like this, in which you’re really frustrated by what they’re doing or not doing, far better to have that conversation early on.
Jim: I like that. I mean, I like that (laughs). I’m just trying to think, how does that play through?
John: Well, we, we had a rental agreement that I drafted for each of the kids when they bounced back, and I just changed the names every time-
Jim: (laughs)
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
John: … somebody moved back in.
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
John: And it stipulated-
Jim: (laughs) You got that in a smile under rental agreement?
John: Well, it was a regular lease agreement because they were gonna have to have that or already had experienced it.
Jim: That’s good. Yeah.
John: So, it’s like, “These are these expectations. This is when rent is due. And y- this-”
Jim: Yeah.
John: … “is how you’ll, you’ll operate in the family.”
Jim: Gary, I wanted to ask you. Uh, you mentioned temperament a little while ago.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And I, I want to kind of bring that around because in the book, you, you talk about planners and strugglers-
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … as temperaments, I think, in part with our children. Describe the planner and the struggler.
Dr. Chapman: You know, well, you know when, when y- y- adult children either come back home, or they stay home, the planner is one who has ideas of where they want to go. They can’t afford maybe to be out by themselves now in an apartment somewhere, so they are planning. If I can stay here for the year, and I’m gonna get a job, and do this, and save my money because I want to go to college, or I want to do this, or the other, whatever else … They have ideas on where they’re going, and this is great because this is the easiest thing for the parent because-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: … they realize this child’s going somewhere.
Jim: One foot out the door at high school graduation, basically.
Dr. Chapman: Right. But the struggler is the one who comes back home after they’ve had a failure.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: And they’ve lost their job, or they’ve dropped out of college. Or they’re having problems with alcohol and drugs, or whatever. They come back. They’re struggling with life, and that’s totally different, and that’s a totally different situation.
Jim: Yeah. Well, in fact, you mentioned that, the, the distinction between loving and challenging. And that, to me, rang of art, the art of parenting-
Dr. Chapman: Mm-hmm.
John: Yeah.
Jim: … that it’s not a scientific m- methodology or formulaic approach. You kind of have to know what to apply when.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: That idea between love and challenging, man, that is tough, especially … and I’ll lay this backdrop to it … with a rise in anxiety, depression, loneliness within 15 to 25-year-olds.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Let’s just say that. And the CDC, the Center for Disease Control, has talked about this. And they, their survey work is it’s gone off the charts-
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … the, the, the level of anxiety, particularly within that age group.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: So, speak to all as a parent because this is all … especially if we’re fairly well-informed parents, we know all that is occurring. And in the, kind of in the wash of this effort to apply the art of parenting-
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … helping our kids when they may have high anxiety, or depression, or they’ve been bullied, or all the other things, uh, uh-
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … where it’s outside normal.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. And that’s when our child desperately needs our love. I mean, that’s the first step.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: We’re not gone get anywhere if the child doesn’t feel loved by us. And that’s where the love languages actually can help them at that point-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: … hoping they’ve already learned that love language concept, and they know that adult child’s language. If not, they ought to discover it.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: Uh, and then communicating love to that child in a meaningful way to them so that what I call their love tank is full, and they’ve, coming back broken … and they know they’re broken. And they know they’re struggling. It, you know, it’s just that they, they don’t know how to handle it d- on their own, and they need you desperately. And if they feel your love, then they’re far more open to your suggestions. For example, if it’s a, if we’re recognizing they’re feeling depressed and all of that, to say, “You know, honey, uh, this is something that’s common with a lot of people your age, and, but there is help. And, uh, let’s, let’s find out if there’s a counselor in our area that, that’s a Christian that can really help us in this area. And we can go with you if we need to. You can go by yourself. We’ll ask the advice of the counselor on that. But we want to, we want to help you because we love-”
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: … “you so much. And, and there’s life beyond this. You know?”
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: So, it’s communicating that kind of love and that there’s hope for them because they don’t have … some of them don’t have a lot of hope at that juncture-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: … depending on what they’ve been through.
John: Yeah.
Jim: Yeah, that is so good. And Gary, th- again, with young adults, the knowledge between how we negotiate our expectations and responsibilities in the home, ij- can you make a distinction between … you know, ha- uh, again, uh, we don’t feel like we need to negotiate as a parent of a late teen. Hey, this is my house.
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: And I’m not saying that’s how you do it.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: But we kind of all understand those rules. Right?
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: But now, it’s negotiation time. And we, again, as parents, may not have that art form of good negotiation skills, especially in the context of if they’re coming back in the home, the responsibilities that you have, how we see it now is different. Let’s just wrap up with that conversation for a bit of hope for that parent that’s in there right now-
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: … with their 23-year-old who doesn’t know where to go and is coming home this weekend.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah, yeah. I think to say to that, uh, 23-year-old, “You know we love you. You know we want the best for you. And so while you’re here, we want to make this a learning time and a growth time-”
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: … “for us and you because it’s different now. You’re an adult now. We’re still your parents. And we care about you, but you’re an adult. And so, but you’re living with us, and so we want you to experience some of the things that you’re going to experience in the real world-”
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: … “when you get out there. And one of them is, uh, having some things to do here at home because if you’re living out there, somebody is gonna have to clean the toilet and c- gonna have to cook, and somebody is gonna have to …” You just list all these things. “And we want you to learn how to do some of those things.”
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: “Are there some of those that you would, you would really like to learn yourself that we might ought to focus on?” So, you give, let them have a chance on some, but they’re gonna be doing something-
Jim: Right.
Dr. Chapman: … and, you know, getting the idea. And so, you, then you negotiate what we’re going to, what we’re gonna do, what we’re gonna be trying to help you with in this particular time of your life. And I think the other thing is to say to them if they have a job … they may or may not have a job if they move back. But if they have a job, just say, “You know, if you had your own apartment out there, you’d be paying $2,000 a month for an apartment now. Now, we’re not gonna charge you (laughs) $2,000, but we do want you to be paying something-”
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: … “so that you have the sense that there’s a monthly r- rent that has to be paid. And if you are doing it with us, then you, you, we’re getting you ready for doing it out there.”
Jim: Kind of life’s normal rhythms.
John: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: That’s right.
Jim: Yeah, that’s a good idea. Um, Gary, this has been so good, and we’ve run out of time. But, uh, like I said, let’s come back and keep hitting it and really provide you with the resources and tools you need, uh, to do the job of parenting well, even after they’re out of the home or maybe have boomeranged back into the home. We want to get this in your hands, Gary’s book, Your New Life with Adult Children. And, uh, as often we do this, if you can make a gift of any amount monthly, which is ideal, or a one-time gift, we’ll send you the book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry and helping even more families. You get great content, and Focus uses the proceeds of that to help other families in need. So, uh, try it that way. It’s a win-win. And, uh, if you can do that monthly, that really helps us. In fact, there’s a matching gift campaign right now at the end of the year where e- every dollar that you give to Focus, uh, some friends have agreed to match that dollar for dollar. It’s a fun way, uh, to go about raising funds for the ministry. That’s it.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: There’s nothing, uh, sour in this. They just want to spur on the giving because they believe in the mission of Focus on the Family. So, if you can make a $20 gift, it becomes a $40 gift because of their willingness to do so, so help, uh, that challenge, and, uh, be part of raising the funds needed to help more families in the coming year.
John: Yeah, invest in the ministry of Focus on the Family. And when you do, you’ve got the benefit of, uh, having that matching gift opportunity. So, contribute as you can when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Yeah, uh, that’s 800-232-6459. Or you can find out more about donating and getting a copy of Gary’s book. And also, our counseling team, you can access them through the website. Uh, we’ve got all the links at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Well, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we continue the conversation with Dr. Gary Chapman and, once again, help you and your family thrive in Christ.
Preview
Dr. Gary Chapman: I think to say to that, uh, 23-year-old, “You know we love you, you know we want the best for you. And so while you’re here, we want to make this a learning time and a growth time, for us and you. Because it’s different now, you’re an adult now. And we’re still your parent, we care about you, but you’re an adult. And so, but you’re living with us, and so we want you to experience some of the things that you’re gonna experience in the real world when you get out there.”
End of Preview
John Fuller: That’s Dr. Gary Chapman describing some of the unique relational dynamics between a parent and an adult child, and, uh, what we can do as parents to improve the relationship. Dr. Chapman joined us last time, we’re looking forward to having him back today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us, I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: John, I think one of the hardest transitions for parents to make is from childhood to adulthood. And the secret that is out is that, when they become adults, guess what, they’re no longer children. (laughs)
John: (laughs) Ah, yes.
Jim: It’s a hard gear to shift into, especially if we’re stuck in some of our parenting ruts that got us to the mountain, but now we got to let them fly, right? And last time, we had a great conversation with Dr. Gary Chapman. I’m looking forward to today, mostly because I’m living it, like you are, John.
John: Mm-hmm, yeah.
Jim: We, our kids are in their twenties now, and I think you have a couple in their thirties.
John: I have some thirties as well, yeah.
Jim: So, I mean, we’re right in that spot. We’re, uh, Gary’s target audience.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And I’m hoping that, uh, most of you are probably in this space as well. So, buckle up because we’re going to talk about challenging some of those, uh, maybe, uh, myths about how you parent adult children and how to do it more successfully, which is our goal, is to equip you to be the best parent you can be, whether they’re 15 or 25.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Or maybe even 35.
John: There you go. Well, Dr. Gary Chapman is here. By the way, if you didn’t catch the first part of the conversation, uh, check it out on YouTube. Uh, go to our, uh, website, get the mobile app, you can listen any time.
Jim: You know, John, let me interrupt you-
John: Uh, this is really rich stuff.
Jim: … ’cause when I’m out speaking, so many people come up to me, “Yeah, I listen to such and such a station. You know, I try to do it at 8:30, when you come on.” I’m going, “Get the app, you can listen anytime.”
John: There you go. Yeah, it’s pretty convenient. And, uh, it’s free, and we’ve linked to it at the website. Well, Dr. Gary Chapman is a prolific author, speaker, he’s always a popular guest here. And, uh, we’re recommending a copy of his book that we’re talking about today, Your New Life with Adult Children. The subtitle is really informative, A Practical Guide to What Helps, What Hurts, and What Heals. Uh, learn about Dr. Chapman and this great book when you’re at the website, and that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And real quickly, we’ll talk about some things today that really aren’t gonna be appropriate for younger listeners. And, uh, so we recommend you direct their attention elsewhere for the next few minutes.
Jim: Gary, welcome back to Focus.
Dr. Chapman: Well, thank you. It’s good to be back.
Jim: (laughs) It’s always good to have you. You brighten the room.
Dr. Chapman: Good.
Jim: Seriously.
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: Man, you have been swinging away at these topics, for how many years? 60 years?
Dr. Chapman: Whoa, a long time.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: No, but you came up with The Love Languages. I think that’s the number one selling book in Christian book sales. Is it not?
Dr. Chapman: Well, it sold over 20 million, I don’t know-
Jim: Okay. That’s a lot of books either way.
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: But what a great concept. And you know, again, that’s, uh, something that we’ve covered and… But as we move into more serious topics here, parenting adult kids, one of the things that I- I wanna mention right outta the gate is, how much guilt we can carry as parents, uh, for the outcomes.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And I, you know, we own so much of that. And part of it is you’ve got to let go of that, so that your relationship remains healthy, right? And I could, lemme add this to it, and speak to this as well. Are self-imposed expectations that, you know, if we’re good, Christian people, if we’re good followers of the Lord, that the product with our children should be there, and they too, should be perfect children, perfect young adults. And that- that is not the equation, everybody. Um, people have free will. But we have to be sober minded about that guilt that we can carry, and how that, then seeps into our relationship with our adult children.
Dr. Chapman: I think that’s really true. As a matter of fact, one of the most common things I hear from parents, in my office, particularly if their child has made a really poor decision that’s against their moral beliefs, their Christian beliefs, and that sort of thing. They say, “Dr. Chapman, what did we do wrong?”
Jim: Right.
Dr. Chapman: “We’ve loved this child. We raised this child. We gave our lives to this child. And now, they’ve done this or they’ve made this decision. What did we do wrong?” And, and I try to say exactly what you said, you know, we can’t take the full responsibility for what our children do as adults. God has given us freedom. They’re free and you’re free. I’m free.
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Chapman: To make our decisions. We can walk away from God, we can walk to God. And we can make poor decisions or wise decisions. So, we’re not responsible for the decisions that our adult children make.
Jim: Yeah, it’s so true. In fact, in the book, you mention a situation, I think it’s Max and Megan, and you talk about their daughter, Debbie. I’m sure all these names have been changed, so, uh, folks don’t worry about (laughs) about that. But what was their situation? What was Debbie getting into that they couldn’t control?
Dr. Chapman: Well, their daughter had made the decision to move in with her boyfriend and live with her boyfriend.
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Chapman: And so, they really wrestled with this.
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Chapman: As to what, what they’re gonna do, you know? And again, they began to realize, we can’t control her. We can’t make her not do this.
Jim: Right.
Dr. Chapman: So, we have an option. Are we gonna write her off and just say, “If you’re gonna do this, then don’t- don’t come here, don’t bring him here”? You know, all these, just lash out at her. Well, if you do that, you lose the opportunity to have a positive influence on her. Because you just radically came down and said, “You do this, then we’re having nothing else to do with you.” I mean, that’s the message that many parents give.
Jim: You know, and you’re not sure of the outcome on that situation, so as the parent, you need to look at the long-game.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Because it’s highly likely that relationship will not, uh, last.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And then, you’ve gotta be in a position to maintain that influence, because you haven’t burned those relational bridges. But this gets really dicey, Gary, in terms of standing for those principles that we believe in, and making sure they know it.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: In the right tone.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: A loving tone. And yet, maintaining that linkage, so that when that relationship falls apart, or better yet, they decide to get married, I mean, that’s a- a- a rejoicing opportunity that they’ve come around to it. But in either perspective, talk about that. How, the parent looking at the long game.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Which may be just a year or two, in this case.
Dr. Chapman: Yep, yep.
Jim: Or five years. But you, you’ve got to maintain a relationship. The other side of it, and speak to this, is, “Hey, you know our position, that does not line up with who we are and what we taught you. So, as long as you’re doing that, you’re not welcome in our home.”
Dr. Chapman: Yeah, I think, I think what that does, it erases the opportunity to have a positive influence. And in terms of the fact, if she marries him, he’s gonna be your son-in-law. And if you’ve taken that stance, you probably not gonna have a relationship with him after that either.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: I mean, this could be a long-term fractured relationship if we take that approach. But if we say, oh the other hand, “Honey, I think you know how we feel about this. And you know we have strong feelings about it, that this is not a wise thing to do. And it’s not just because we’re Christians, that we take that stand, it’s because research indicates most of the people that do this, don’t get married, and if they do, their marriage is not better, it’s worse.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: And so, you know, “We don’t want you to do this, but you are an adult. And you- you can make your own decisions. And I want you to know, we love you no matter what you decide.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: Just like God loves us, even when we do wrong. And we love you. Uh, so… Do you hear, you hear, you hear my heart?
Jim: I do, I do. Let me push a little deeper, because I, I’m just mindful of the parents that are living in this space. Because some of this, to me, this is the gift of the prophet, the gift of the evangelist. And- and what I mean by that is temperament. And this can get dicey in your marriage, as the parents of the adult child.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Because one of you has this attitude of, “Hey, we gotta look to the future. Let’s not burn the bridges right now. And the other spouse is like, “Are you kidding me? How can we tolerate that?”
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And it’s- it’s, both are defensible biblically, I think.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: But which is going to get you to the right outcome? And there can be a lot of stress in your marriage, around that adult child’s behavior, because the two of you, as mom and dad, see it differently.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. And keeping your marriage intact…
Jim: Number one.
Dr. Chapman: … (laughs) is a model that they need to have.
Jim: Right.
Dr. Chapman: That parents can disagree on something, but we talk our way through it, and we make the decision that we can agree on. And if you can’t agree on it, then don’t make the decision yet, you know? And pray in the meantime God will give you wisdom.
Jim: And honestly, that’s a place where, if that continues to be a block for the two of you, you do want to seek help.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And you know, John, we talk about that, but this is, I- I say this outta my own experience, Jean and I, this is where you, you really could use some counseling.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And have a third person, a qualified person at your church, or through Focus on the Family, through our counseling efforts here, we’ll do that for you. Uh, to talk about this and get some perspective, I- I think it’s one of the most beneficial moments for, you know, relatively healthy couples to say, “Okay, we need a little help here.”
John: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. Uh, the third party, a- a third Christian party… (laughs)
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: … who can help you think through it. And identify with your feelings. I mean, we can understand both of those positions, you know? But let’s think about what it’s gonna be, what’s gonna have the most positive influence-
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: … on them, that’s what you want.
Jim: Another heartbreaking issue is when, uh, young adults decide they, uh, are dealing with the LGBTQ spectrum, the gay and transgendered issues that are so prevalent, uh, particularly in public schools now.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: With the rise of that, or the affirmation of that kind of declaration. Uh, explain why condemnation or despair is the wrong response, even though this is perhaps one of the most gut wrenching situations you’ll face, as a parent.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. I think there’s no question about it, when a child reveals to their parents what they, how they perceive themselves, and that they announce themselves to be this or that or the other thing. Deeply, deeply painful. And that’s why, uh, you know, as a counselor, I am deeply empathetic with those people. You know, your heart just goes out to them. You wish-
Jim: Talk about the guilt questions, as a parent.
Dr. Chapman: … Oh, yeah.
Jim: What did I do, as a dad?
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: What didn’t I do?
Dr. Chapman: Yeah, and that’s-
Jim: That would’ve helped him…
Dr. Chapman: … Yeah.
Jim: … uh, not end up in this place.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah, and that’s exactly what the couple, last one I saw, that’s exactly what they said.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: “What’d we do wrong?” And you know, let, let’s face it, we don’t understand all the dynamics of that whole sexual thing-
Jim: Right, science doesn’t even understand it.
Dr. Chapman: … you know, we don’t, none of us understand that. But we do know that people do have same sex attraction. But that doesn’t mean they have to live the lifestyle.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: You know, I mean, God calls us to a celibacy, whether we’re, have those feelings or we have heterosexual feelings, we’re called to celibacy-
Jim: Right.
Dr. Chapman: … before marriage. And God also has His definition of marriage too, we, all of that. And so, that’s why I think we’re so disturbed, is because we know that this is not gonna be for the good of the child. Anytime we’re not doing what God laid out for us, it’s not gonna be good for them. And we all have temptations in one area or another.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: You know, if you’re heterosexual, you have temptations toward adultery, and toward, you know, Jesus said, “Look unto the woman and lusting after her.”
Jim: Right.
Dr. Chapman: So, whatever our feelings are, we all are tempted. But God wants to help us make the right decision and not follow the temptation. But as parents, I think we have to ask, how can I be God’s agent in trying to help them walk through this? And again, we have to come back and realize, I can’t control them, I should not try to control them. God does not control His own children. We are free to make our decisions.
Jim: Right.
Dr. Chapman: And so, we have to ask ourselves, what am I gonna do here? And there’s a lot of questions that are gonna come out of that. What do we do here? What do we do here? What do we do here? But I think once we express to that child, when they’ve revealed it to us and we express to them, uh, yes, this hurts me deeply, and- and you- you know, yourself, this- this is against everything that we have taught and the Bible teaches, and so forth. But I want you to know I love you, you’re my son and I’m never gonna not love you. Or you’re my daughter and I’m gonna always love you.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: And uh, I’m gonna try to work through my pain and my hurt, because I am hurt. We need to be honest, you know, with- with our children.
Jim: Yeah. You know, uh, lemme add this and you can get a perspective. I’ve met with people in the LGBTQ community and- and talked with them about their journey, many of them out of Christian homes.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And the one recurring story that just grips my heart is that moment that they’re talking with their mom and dad, at the kitchen table…
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … revealing this, and often, the comment is, “My dad stood up, hugged me with tears in his eyes, and said, ‘I love you but I never wanna see you again. Get outta my house.’”
John: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: Mm-hmm, yeah.
Jim: I’m telling you, folks, that is a common statement that I hear.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Think of the damage done, in that moment. And it’s hard, because when you’re looking, Gary, at the lever of control, when your child says something like that to you, your desire to press that, that throttle…
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … to full control, is there.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Uh, I don’t know how to get outta this. I don’t know what to do. Therefore, unconsciously even, I’m gonna control this as best as I can. We’re gonna get you to therapy, we’re gonna, whatever it might be.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And there is a time for all of that. But the time, in that moment of disclosure, is to make sure that they know that you care about them.
Dr. Chapman: Mm-hmm, yeah.
Jim: And they don’t understand all the why’s of this.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: But we’ve got to fight for you.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And find out what’s happening.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: But, but keep the linkage.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Keep the relationship.
Dr. Chapman: Because- because if you take that other stance, “I don’t wanna see you again. Outta my house forever,” I’m glad God doesn’t do that to us.
Jim: Yeah, no kidding.
Dr. Chapman: If He did, we’d all be written off.
Jim: Isn’t that a great illustration-
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … of how to do it?
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: How does God treat us?
John: Mm. Well, we’re covering some, uh, difficult and tender topics here, on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Our guest is Dr. Gary Chapman. Uh, during that past day or two, we’ve covered a lot of different topics, and, uh, if we can be of help to you, uh, if you need to talk to one of our counselors, or if you’d like to get a copy of Dr. Chapman’s book, Your New Life with Adult Children, uh, give us a call. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. Or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: And John, let me mention again that idea, the counseling department, man, donors have supported us to the extent that we can employ counselors here, at Focus, that are available to you. I don’t know of another Christian ministry that does that. I’m, they may be out there. But this is our commitment to you. We want to help you. We’ll talk to you. You can call and schedule an appointment with a fantastic Christian counseling team, they’ll get back to you, they’ll talk about these topics with you, and I think provide you with some great insights on how to carry that healing forward, which is our goal.
Dr. Chapman: Mm-hmm.
Jim: We can’t stay in that, but we will get you started in the right direction. And take advantage of it, don’t be shy. I, we been at this almost 50 years. And it’s something that Dr. Dobson did right at the beginning of Focus, is to establish a counseling effort. Do it, get a hold of us. Uh, it will not be embarrassing to you at all. You know, moving into the mending of the relationships with the last half of our time together here, one of the most difficult letters I’ve ever read was a- a woman who wrote me not long ago, and she was probably 32, 33. And she said, “You know, when I was seven, my father took me out to lunch to say that he and my mom weren’t getting along and that they were gonna divorce, but it wasn’t my fault, that- that I had no responsibility in that.” Which I thought, oh, that’s good. So far this is good.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Then, he said, “You know, I’ll have you every other weekend. I’ll get you two weeks during the summer. And I wanna maintain our relationship even though I won’t be living with you, at the house.” And she said, “That was the last time I heard from my dad.”
Dr. Chapman: Oh, man.
Jim: And she said, “I’m- I’m now 32, and all I’ve done since that day is to try to find affirmation from men.”
Dr. Chapman: Wow.
Jim: Terrible relationship after terrible relationship. And I think of that poor dad, and I say poor in what he lost.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: He lost that relationship with his daughter.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: For whatever was on the other side of the fence.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And to hurt her, and to wound her like that…
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … to make that promise and to never keep it…
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: I, the deficit in his soul should be large.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: ‘Cause of the devastation he created. So, speak to that importance of the reconciliation of those relationships. How do you recommend young adults…
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … ’cause she initiated that letter to me.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Someone she doesn’t know…
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … other than the radio program.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: But how does a young adult initiate that heart wrenching reconciliation-
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … with that parent that has left them behind?
Dr. Chapman: Well, if they have any contact with them, that is they know how to contact with them, then writing a letter to that father, for example…
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Chapman: … after all these years, and just saying, “Dad, I just have to share with you, my heart. Da, da, da, da, da,” and- and just share the heart with him. And, “I wish I could have a relationship with you, even after all these years- ”
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: “… if that were possible.” It should be the first step in there being a reconciliation.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: And that doesn’t erase all the pain and the problems of those years, but it may bring certain level of healing…
Jim: Absolutely.
Dr. Chapman: … to both her and that father. That father likely would respond with, “Okay, let’s get together,” and he would likely apologize to her.
Jim: Hopefully.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Um, and that would be a great outcome and the beginning of that healing. But there’s also that possibility that you won’t hear back, for whatever reason, because of his deficits.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Um, speak to that person, the benefit of still doing that, even though you might not get the response that you need.
Dr. Chapman: I think you have the benefit of knowing that you did what you could do.
Jim: Your conscience is clear.
Dr. Chapman: You reached out, that’s right.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: And you can release that father into God’s hands, knowing that you’re putting him in good hands. ‘Cause God is both loving and just, and if that father turns to God, he’ll be forgiven. If he doesn’t, God will take care of that.
John: Yeah. Yeah, Gary, that’s, that- that relates to just kind of a general application you’ve got in the book, for parents and the kids, the adult kids, to, um, write a letter, and maybe not even send it.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
John: So, what’s the importance of that?
Dr. Chapman: I think there’s, there is some value in that. It’s, uh, if you’re the, uh, adult child, uh, pour, writing a letter, pouring out your heart to- to your, to the parent that you feel cut you off or whatever, not with a view to- to sending it to them necessarily, but with a view of getting that all off of your heart and your mind. Actually putting it in writing, it, there’s, it does something to you emotionally, when you do that. You might later decide to send it, you might not decide to send it. But I think there is value in that. But when you do that, I suggest also, you begin to think, okay, what did my parents do right? What should I be thankful for? Well, number one might be, they didn’t abort me. (laughs)
Jim: (laughs)
Dr. Chapman: I’m here.
Jim: It’s pretty simple.
Dr. Chapman: I’m here. And then, from there, you begin to think, what are the things they did for me? And chances are, you’ll find a list, pretty good list, that will help you balance what you experienced in that one event that, because many times, it’s a one-time event.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: And- and that there, there is a positive side to them. So you can give thanks for those things. And with those, you might decide to send that letter…
John: Mm.
Dr. Chapman: … of thanksgiving to them.
Jim: Oh, that’s a good one.
Dr. Chapman: If they respond…
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: … then you could say, “Is there a chance we could get together?” And when you get together, then you can, you know, they- they- they likely will apologize to you. They know they’ve done wrong. (laughs)
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: They know it.
John: We’re aware of that, yeah.
Dr. Chapman: But you’re looking at the positive thing and tell ’em, thanking them for these things, “I would not be here if it weren’t for you.” Um, getting together can begin the process of healing that relationship.
Jim: You know, Gary, listening the last couple of days, the thing that is kinda bouncing around in my head is this idea of selfishness.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: It- it, what you’re expressing so often is a form of selfishness, as the parent. Selfish about the future I didn’t get with my child. The- the child that didn’t become the child I wanted to have.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: There, it feels like there’s a- a selfish root to some of this, that your expectations weren’t met in the behavior that they’re demonstrating.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And you gotta let that go, that’s in you.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And then, and then to move to that area of forgiveness, um, is so critical, spiritually. I mean, now neuroscience is showing, you know, we- we talk about, uh, being afraid of science, Christians have nothing to fear from science, because it is reinforcing the very things that we believe.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: Because we are correct in believing that He created us.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: And when you see science in that, in that perspective, you know, now they can put an MRI to your brain and see the impact, emotionally, of your brain, physiologically, from fear and the things that scripture talks about.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: The things that’ll harm you and the things that’ll help you. Speak to the power of forgiveness that does so much for you emotionally, spiritually, and physically.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. I think, when we release that person who has hurt us most deeply, we release them to God, it’s kind of a one-sided forgiveness. There’s, they’re not, they’re not apologizing.
Jim: No expectation.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. They’re not apologizing to us, it’s just that we are not gonna carry that burden and the emotions that go with it, the hurt, the anger, the bitterness and all of that. We’re gonna release that person to God knowing that God is a just God, and we can trust Him to deal with them. We are releasing our anger, our bitterness to God, so that we are now free to live our lives without that bondage.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Chapman: You know, that’s why the Bible says, you know, “Don’t hold anger inside, it turns to bitterness,” you know?
Jim: Yeah. Gary, we are right at the end and it’s unfortunate. I, I’ve got a whole list of more questions.
Dr. Chapman: (laughs)
Jim: But we’ve run outta time. Um, speak at the end, here, to the importance of a parent ending well, in terms of their own personal integrity and values, which will communicate so much to either their estranged adult child or their fully committed Christian adult child. Either way, it’s a win.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: But again, it’s that long view. And ending well is so critical so there’s no regret.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: There’s nothing, no stone unturned…
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: … that should’ve been discussed before that last breath. And I’m sure some of you listening and viewing, I mean, it’s, you’re in that critical moment, you- you may not have time. What does that person do to say, “I do not want to die not finding resolution to this.”
Dr. Chapman: Yeah. I think, first of all, sharing our real heart with God and asking God to help us to maintain to the very end of our lives, our own walk with Him, our own commitment to Him.
Jim: The one thing you can control.
Dr. Chapman: That’s right.
Jim: Yeah.
Dr. Chapman: And putting our children in God’s hands. You know, we’ve done everything we know to do, if there’s anything else we can do, Lord, please show me what it is, I wanna do it. But- but when we’ve done everything we know to do and He doesn’t bring anything else to mind, “Lord, help me to be faithful, so that it, when they hear about my life, if they’re estranged and don’t even know, they’ll know that I was faithful to you, to the end.”
Jim: Wow.
Dr. Chapman: You know, that’s why I pray for myself, every day, “God, keep my heart. Keep my heart. I wanna be faithful to you, to the end.” Wherever our children go, that’s them and God. But we’re responsible for our own walk with God.
Jim: That’s well said and it gives you a sense of peace.
Dr. Chapman: Yeah.
Jim: You don’t have to be writhing about what your kids are doing, and- and, um, you know, you trust the Lord for the outcome. Gary, this has been so good. Your new book, Your New Life with Adult Children: A Practical Guide for What Helps, What Hurts, and What Heals. And, uh, great perspective. I so appreciate you spending the time with us. You’re gonna be here, at Focus, for a couple of days, helping, uh, in a variety of ways, with content. So, thank you for that contribution to the team, here.
Dr. Chapman: Well, thank you. It’s always good to be here.
Jim: And let me make a recommendation to our listeners and viewers, that you be part of this ministry. Uh, I wanna encourage you to do that. Jean and I do it, and I know you and Dena do it, John.
John: We donate, yep.
Jim: Uh, by giving monthly, or with a one-time gift, whatever you can send, uh, this is a critical time for Focus, when we normally raise about half our budget, right here at the Christmas season, that will carry us the rest of the year. And so, we’re counting on you to provide the fuel we need to strengthen marriages, encourage parents, rescue pre-born babies, reach people for Christ. You know, over 190,000 people last year made a decision, uh, for Christ, through Focus on the Family.
John: Mm-hmm, yeah.
Jim: That’s what we’re doing together. And we have, uh, mentioned this before, but some generous friends have provided that incentive in a fun way. Sometimes I’ve talked to people who are a little critical of that, but it’s just a fun way to spur on giving. And if you make a $25 gift, they’ll match it and make it a $50 gift. So, it’s just a great way to do more in the coming year.
John: Yeah, donate today, your gift will be twice as meaningful and make twice the impact. And along with that knowledge, we’ll also send a copy of Gary’s book, as our way of saying thank you for your generosity. Contact us today, double your gift when you call 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459. Or you can donate online at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. We hope you have a great weekend with your family and your church family, as well. And please plan to join us on Monday for insights on how to create healthy rhythms in your marriage relationship.
Jenni Graebe: It’s our job to evaluate what, what brings us life. And make decisions based on those values. And that’s where the peace come from, when we make decisions for our family and for our marriage that line up with those values.
