John Fuller: Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, bestselling author and podcaster, Annie F. Downs, is going to talk about the importance of pursuing joy.
Annie F. Downs: What are the moments that make me feel the most alive? What are the moments of fun that I go like, “Oh yeah, now this is it.” Because those moments are giving you a taste of something God has for you in the long run.
John: Thanks for joining us today. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: Well, Annie is a very joyful person and we’re delighted to be able to share that joy with our listeners today. Uh, she’s sold over 1 million books.
John: Wow, that’s a lot.
Jim: That’s a lot of books. And is the co-founder of the That Sounds Fun Podcast Network. She splits her time between Nashville, Tennessee and New York City.
John: And here’s Annie F. Downs speaking to our staff just a few months ago on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
Annie: The Bible talks a lot about joy and Christians want to talk about joy. I am one of us, I’m also a Christian. But people want to talk about joy, but they don’t want to talk about fun. Because fun is often considered sinful, right? Very often if you say, “Oh, they are a ton of fun.” You’re like, “How much does he drink?” Right? Or you’re like, “What are they really into?” Oh, that person’s so fun and you think they stay out late. They’re kind of wild. Whatever. I think we’ve, by labeling that, we’ve removed where fun and joy connect and we’ve taken fun away from the opportunity that redeemed fun is part of how God made us. And it isn’t just for children, it’s for us too. So there is this place where joy and fun and our faith all meet.
Joy is the thing you feel. Joy is the emotion, you experience that, it gets in you. Fun is the action that gets you there. So do you remember 2020? Sadly, me too. Um, know how everybody learned how to bake bread? If you make that bread and put it in a cold oven, nothing’s going to happen. But if you preheat that oven and put the bread in, it gets cooked, it gets baked, and then you have a loaf. So, so to me, joy is that loaf of bread. Fun is turning the oven on. There has to be some action when you are searching for joy. If life feels hard, if you are grieving, if you are suffering, if things feel really stressful, you have to take a step toward fun if you want to find joy. It will be the oven that breaks your bread. Breaks? Bakes your bread, bakes your bread, even when you don’t quite feel joyful yet.
So when you go, “Man, we have not, we have not laughed in our family in a while. This has been a really hard season.” And I would say, instead of sitting there and going, “How do we find joy?” You go, “What do we think is fun? Could fun be the thing? Could that catalyst take us somewhere?” There’s this verse in Proverbs that I’m sure you have read before. Proverbs 14:13, “Even in laughter, the heart may ache and rejoicing may end in grief.” You’ve held both of those, right? I think you probably have at some point in your life. I get to talk with Jim tomorrow on the podcast. Jim and my sister and I will sit and talk. My sister and I wrote a children’s book together called Where did TJ Go? That came out about a month ago, because two years ago, my sister and her husband had a baby, TJ, who um, only lived 56 days.
He was diagnosed in the womb at 12 weeks with Trisomy 18, which is a life-limiting diagnosis. We knew for her entire pregnancy that the likelihood of my nephew living was really low. Through the kindness of God and medical intervention, he lived much longer than a lot of children with Trisomy 18 live. And so he was three weeks in the NICU and my sister and brother-in-law were there. And I have another nephew at the time who was two, now he’s four. He’s, it’s almost an idol, Jim, I have to tell you the truth, I like him so much, little Sammy. He has red hair. You can’t beat people with red hair. They’re adorable when they’re small. And so… I’m not wrong. I am not wrong.
So after three weeks in the NICU, they sent TJ back to my sister and brother-in-law’s house and he was on hospice care for five weeks. And, and in his last weekend we knew he was getting closer and closer to dying. And we had cousins coming in town, like our age cousins who also had kids. And my parents were there and my other sister was there. We were all kind of gathering up that weekend and I was actually still in Nashville at the time. My friends, my family is in Atlanta. My, one of the nurses calls me and says, “Hey, you should be sure to come home this weekend because I think TJ probably will um, pass away this weekend.” And at this point I was Face Timing them once or so, a day checking in and getting to talk to TJ. Um, and so that night before we were saying good night to go to bed, sorry, I was Face Timing him.
I said, “TJ, you have got to stick around for the weekend. All the cousins are coming. We are having steak. Granddaddy is going to do it. You are going to love it. You are going to have potatoes. All your cousins will be there. It’ll be so loud. It’ll be the loudest day of your life. You got to stick around for the weekend.” And he did. He lived until Wednesday. So he thought the party was just going to keep going. But on that Saturday we lived, even in laughter, the heart may ache, because we sat around and watched the preschoolers play and run around and knock each other over and be silly. We laughed with our cousins and with our grandparents and, and my dad read a letter to TJ about how proud he was of him and how much he was going to miss him. All that in the same day.
We can hold joy and suffering at the same time. And so, because little Sammy did not know how to process losing his little brother, is why my sister and I wrote, Where did TJ Go? Because we wanted a book about Heaven. When, when he was dying, uh, I was calling counselors and all these people and being like, “What’s the book? Where’s the, like, gospel book about this?” And no one had a good answer. And I was like, “Well, I don’t make casseroles.” I know that shocks none of you. I don’t make casseroles. I don’t have time for that, but I can write a story. So we wrote a little story for Sammy and now we’ve just gotten to share it with the world, but we were holding joy and suffering for the entirety of TJ’s life. So I know that practice, just like you know that practice and, and I’m sure you’ve seen the movie Inside Out.
It’s very theologically correct that when it’s tries to, though, though, personally as an Annie, I’m like, “Joy is great. Why is sadness have anything to say about anything?” That’s what I would choose. But then what you see in that film is holding both of them is actually what’s true. You’ve probably heard, “Fake it till you make it.” You know, if you’re feeling sad, just pretend to be happy and it’ll catch up. And that’s not the same thing I’m inviting you to, I just want you to know, I’m not telling you to fake having fun or fake being happy and see if your emotions will catch up. What I’m telling you is if you choose fun, joy is going to follow. If you pursue fun, if you chase it a little bit, joy is going to follow. So real quick, I want, I want to tell you why if we choose fun, joy is going to follow.
Number one is fun really requires vulnerability, really requires vulnerability. I promise you, you haven’t been on a first date on a roller coaster, have you? Because what you do on a roller coaster is not something you want someone who you want to like you to see. The screaming, the crying, the hands. You don’t want, like, I’m trying to decide if we like each other. Let’s ride this roller coaster together. It doesn’t happen. Because that kind of fun in that moment you lose a lot of control that you have like you do right now where you’re sitting. I have a couple of girlfriends that are on Broadway and we were at an amusement park together and they weren’t allowed to yell because they’re singers. And so they were like, we can’t yell on this ride. And I am like, “Yeah.”
And they’re going this, “Ooh.” Because that is all they were allowed to do. “Ooh.” And I was like, this is the weirdest, I hate this behind me. The next ride you must be in front of me because I feel like I’m being chased by demons on this entire ride, right? They don’t want to do that on a first date. You know what else you probably haven’t done on a first date? Is tried a new recipe. Come over, come eat at my house. Let me cook something I’ve never cooked before. No, it’s vulnerable, right? It’s really fun to try new recipes with people that you love and people that you know and you’re safe with because it’s vulnerable. Or maybe it’s hiking a new trail around here where you go like, “Yeah, I probably don’t want to take my kids on the first time in case I get lost.”
But after that, fun requires some real vulnerability from us. And if you choose fun and allow yourself to be vulnerable, joy follows because you know that you’re known and loved. And so this joy bubbles up, when you are vulnerable with your friends, when you are having fun with your friends, when you’re on roll. If y’all all went to an amusement park together, you would laugh so hard and you think, “I can’t believe I just let them see me do that.” Then you go, “Oh, I’m still loved. Oh, that’s great. What a gift. I’m still loved.” Do y’all know Dollywood? Not enough of you? Okay, great. You thought I was going to be an evangelist for Jesus, let me tell you about Dollywood. Listen, Dolly Parton owns an amusement park in Tennessee, you guys, it’s very enjoyable. Every restaurant is food that she actually like used to make or is a family recipe.
It, the whole thing’s adorable. The roller coasters are very fun. It’s all very southern and very like Appalachia. You’d love it. Okay, so they also, oh, I need to tell you this. They have cinnamon bread that will change your actual spirit. It is, it’s incomparable to explain, it is the best thing you’ve ever eaten. They dip it, when it is raw dough, they dip it in butter and then they dip it in cinnamon sugar and then they put it in a container to cook. That’s it. They don’t wipe it off. They leave… Exactly, exactly. Whistle about it. So I’m telling you, it’s lovely. A couple of years ago we did an event there because, are you surprised? I was like, “Hey, if you want me to get up and talk, why don’t we bring everybody to Dollywood?” And it was 2021. So it was right when things were opening up again and a couple of thousand people came.
And what I would notice, there was a time when people were kind of like, uh, waiting in line, they want me to sign books and that kind of stuff. And there’s people that are talking to each other, and then there are a couple of people that are not talking to anyone. And as they’re getting closer to me, I, I can overhear while I’m talking to other people, they start to introduce themselves to each other, right? So I want you to think, remember we’re thinking about vulnerability and fun. And so here’s what’s happening is this woman had come by herself, flown in a plane by herself to Dollywood and she’s in line now with this other couple, this married couple, and they’ve become friends and they’re chatting it up and then they get to me and we do the thing. And and I said, “Okay, so what are y’all doing now?”
And the wife says, “Oh, I think she’s just going to come with us and we’re going to ride some rides.” I thought, “Oh, what a gift. What a gift to be that vulnerable that you’re willing to A, invite people in to be with you and B, be willing to be invited into that.” And I, they, I saw them later that day and they were just like giggling, just giggling walking around together. We have that opportunity to be vulnerable with each other in fun times, right? It very often in faith spaces, like we work in pretty full time, vulnerability can often look like sadness. And it’s beautiful and you’re really telling your deep heart story. But there is something really revealing and good about vulnerability and fun because then you have permission to be vulnerable when it’s hard too. Because you’ve already seen each other on a rollercoaster.
John: Well, we’ve been listening to Annie F. Downs on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and she’s written a beautiful devotional book on this subject of having fun. It’s called Chase the Fun. And we can send that to you for a gift of any amount, uh, to the ministry today. Donate and we’ll include a free audio download of this entire presentation. There’s more to it than we can present to you, uh, here on the radio. Donate and request the book and the download at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast or call for details 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. And let’s hear more now from Annie F. Downs.
Annie: Fun also really invites connection. And you know this because you’ve had fun, you have memories where I said, “What’s the most thing, fun thing you’ve ever done with people outside of your family?” You go, “Oh, when we went to the rodeo.” “Oh, when we went to a Broncos game.” “Oh, when we…” And you’d come up with a thing that you and your small group had done, or you and your neighborhood had done, or you and the swim team parents had done. Fun really invites connection. If you choose fun, it brings connection and then joy follows because you know you’re not alone, you’re connected. Fun makes you feel connection.
And that really matters because there is such joy in not feeling alone in your pain or your worry or your sadness. I mean, one of my favorite scriptures is where, in the Psalms where it says the Lord sets the lonely in families. I have so many unmarried friends, I’m this way too, that have families that have invited us in for fun and for, I mean I’m staying with the family while I’m here in Colorado Springs, and we just like laughed forever the other night while we ate cheeseburgers and did high-low buffalo around the table. It was so fun, I was invited in, and I was reminded that I’m not alone. I may not be married, but I’m not alone. What a gift. The vulnerability and the connection of that.
And then finally, I’ll tell you, fun helps you remember. This is why you were really good at having fun as a kid and it may not be as easy for you. So when I say what’s the most fun you had as a little, as a third-grader, you know, just think about it for a second. What was the most fun you had as third-grader? You probably know. What’s the hobby you used to love to do that you don’t do anymore? What’d you do when you were that little? Fun really helps you remember. And that’s important. Look at this verse in Ecclesiastes. This is 3:11, “He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart. Yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.”
This is, um, the secret I don’t tell everybody about fun, but I’ll tell you all. This is the thing about fun that it’s also why it’s really important for us to know fun and pursue fun in the relationships with our friends who are non-believers, is because when you are sitting there… Okay, picture with me, imagine June in Colorado and you’re sitting outside at dinner with your family and your closest friends and the food is like perfect and the like twinkly lights are doing that thing, de, de, de, de, de. And the weather’s lovely and the sun is just setting and you’re full, but you’re not like that full, unless that makes you feel great, then go for it. But you’re having that moment and you think, “I wish this wouldn’t end.”
Eternity is set in your heart. The thing you are feeling when you say, “I wish this wouldn’t end.” Is a taste of what won’t end. It is just this moment you have in the middle of fun when you think this, “I wish this would go on forever.” Someday that thing you feel will go on forever. Eternity is set in our hearts. And so when we are with our non-believing friends, when we have fun with them and they say, “I wish this would last forever.” Your Jesus juke is, “It can if you want it to. I actually can tell you about Him and how this could last forever for you.” Because what happens when we’re actually sitting at that meal and we’re outside and we’ve eaten just enough and, and the lights are perfect, is that the friend across from you gets a text and one of their kids is throwing up and they got to go and they get up and leave.
And then suddenly you think you hear thunder, and when you rise, you hear thunder, you also realize that like all the linens on the table will be ruined if they get rained on. So you’re like, “Everybody up, let’s go, get your plates. Go inside, find a place to sit. I don’t care where, but help me get all of this inside.” And it’s over. That moment that you hoped would never end ends every time, I’m sorry to tell you, it ends every time. But the fun helps you remember that we know there is more here than this. Okay, I am very interested in this. Why do I, what are the moments that make me feel the most alive? What are the moments of fun that I go like, “Oh yeah, now this is it.” Because those moments are giving you a taste of something God has for you in the long run. And there are times when even those of us in our faith who are growing with the Lord are in such a sad and hard season that you need someone else to come in and help you remember.
You say, “Hey, can we, can we do something fun this weekend?” A lot of times what people worry about with fun is that you’re escaping your pain. “Oh, if you, if you’re choosing to have fun, you’re just running from your pain and your worry.” Let me remind you about whales, you’re welcome. Whales swim very deep in the ocean. They can go really deep just like we can in our sadness and our emotions and, and our grief and loss. We can go really deep in the ocean. Whales do not survive if they do not come up for air. Whales have to constantly go down and come up and blow the air out of their blowhole. You got to do that too. You got to have a break. You’ve got to choose fun sometimes to help you remember what we’re doing all this for, to help you remember that eternity is set in your hearts, to help you remember this is going to last.
You’ve got to have those moments. Now when you should get worried is when you take the whale out of the ocean, that’s escaping. When you take the whale all the way out of the ocean, like I can’t be in water anymore, that’s escapism. A whale coming up to breathe is just relief. You’re allowed to have relief. How do we know the difference, when we’re choosing fun, how do we know the difference between relief and escape? If you go see one movie this weekend relief, if you go to the movie theater and stay there all day Saturday, I’m a little concerned, right? So you can start seeing in your own life, “Okay, I’m chasing after fun. But this is leaning toward escapism. This isn’t just remembering, this isn’t just connectivity, this isn’t just vulnerability. This is me trying to get away from the pain.” It is when you finish a sentence with, I think I just did that too much.
I think I just ate, drank, was on Instagram, was on Facebook, sent a message, went somewhere, I think I just did that too much. You probably took the whale out of the ocean. Just put them back in. Put them back in. If you choose fun, it’s going to remind you of something really deep inside of you. And joy is going to follow because you know that that feeling you’re feeling, that moment, the thing you’re longing for, is actually going to come someday. That’s it. I, please next time you’re just having fun with your friends or family, even if it’s just to, if it’s tonight at dinner around the table and you all are laughing, just have this moment where you go, “Oh, this is what forever’s going to be like. Oh right, this is what we’re pointing towards. This is why we want to take a bus to heaven, not a motorcycle. Like we want to bring everyone with us because I don’t want anyone to miss this.” It happens when you’re having fun.
Why does all this matter? You probably think I’m going to say, “Because the world needs it.” Like people need to see you having fun because the world needs it. We’re in a tough time on the planet and we need a break. And, and it’s because you’re the light of the world and all that is true. That is not not true. But you know why I really think this matters is because you need joy. Joy is like very important for us surviving. We have what they don’t have. Our joy is not natural, it’s supernatural. And our neighbors don’t get it. They don’t understand how we’re okay, how we are still joyful. We have what they don’t have. And so if you stop pursuing it, if you stop choosing joy, if you stop chasing fun, that will open the door, door to joy, you miss out.
I’m sure you have said this in your life. I’ve said this in my life, when I’ve gone, I mean, I thought this when TJ died. I thought, “How do people without God do this? How do they do this?” When I’m in New York and I’m walking around like, “How are y’all doing this? Aren’t you in pain? Aren’t you worried? Who do you talk to when you lay down at night? Who relieves you of any of this? Who’s the reason behind what you do? Like, how do y’all do this?” I almost want to like start a new podcast and be like, “How do non-Christians do it? How do you do it? I couldn’t do it.”
If we didn’t have this joy that was deeper, and I know you’ve heard this before and I mean, scripture talks about like joy isn’t surface level, it isn’t just being happy. It’s a fruit of the Spirit, right? It’s part of the gig. It’s what we get when we sign up for this thing. But it is hard to access and fun is going to be one of the ways you can do that. It’s a tool that increases your joy, it increases your hobbies, it happens in your hobbies. It happens when you rest. It is, it is so much more important than we think it is. And I’m like, money back guarantee, try it this weekend and see if fun doesn’t help. And I’ll give you one tip I tell people a lot. You know what you could do that would be so fun this weekend? Is if you went to three Mexican restaurants and judge their guacamole against each other. Make a rubric, figure out is it chunky or smooth? Did it have enough of this, of this? Take your family and just order guacamole, pay, tip well and leave and go to the next one. Your kids will laugh so hard if you just eat guacamole on Saturday. It’ll cost you $25, maybe $30. You can go to three to four restaurants and then at the end you’ve got a scorecard of your city’s guacamole. And your kids will tell their friends at school on Monday they did a guacamolethon. It’s not hard.
Fun is important in our faith lives because of the vulnerability, the connection and the power of remembering and knowing what we don’t know. It can be small and daily, it does not have to be big and expensive, but it is very important. And you can just like try and see if you agree. Just try it.
John: And that brings us to the close of this presentation from Annie F. Downs on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
Jim: Well, I got to say I really like the idea of sampling guacamole all over town.
John: That’s a great one. (Laughs).
Jim: Let’s do that with the whole staff here at Focus and see if we can wipe the town out of guacamole. Um, Annie gave us a few more fun low-cost ideas to try. I’ll give you a few here. You can host a potluck dinner and let your friends bring their favorite side dishes, hopefully lots of guacamole.
John: (Laughs).
Jim: And then swap recipes at the end. Uh, how about this one? Write, draw or create something from any art supplies you already have at home.
John: Huh.
Jim: Or re-read your favorite book, especially one that you haven’t read in many years. I like that one. Or re-watch a favorite movie.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Those are all good ideas.
John: Yeah. And those aren’t expensive. That was her point, is try something, and uh, if I could add one, I’d think my boy, Dena, and I really love walking around the block and in the neighborhood.
Jim: Oh that sounds good.
John: Especially after dinner in the summertime when the sun’s going down behind Pike’s Peak, uh, the day cools off. It’s just really wonderful to see.
Jim: I like that. Yeah, that’s a good idea. Uh, there’s more ideas in Annie’s devotional book. It’s called Chase the Fun: 100 Days to Discover Fun Right Where You Are. Get a copy from us here at Focus on the Family where the proceeds go right back into ministry. We can send you the book for a one-time donation of any amount, but the best way to help us is by making a monthly pledge. Uh, that’s how Jean and I support the ministry.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: John, you and Dena do that as well.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Uh, it doesn’t have to be a large amount. It’s the consistency that really helps us even out the budget over the entire year. And when you get Annie’s book from us, we will include a free audio download of this presentation. And regardless of whether you can donate, uh, we’d like to add some joy to your life with a free offer. We’ve put together a collection of audio downloads featuring our favorite comedians with over three hours of content, and that is free fun for your entire family.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And they will make you laugh.
John: Yes.
Jim: I’ve listened. Uh, look for the Focus on the Family Comedy Collection when you visit us online.
John: Yeah. And that collection’s going to be great to take with you on vacation, uh, and listen to together. It really is a terrific, uh, combination of different speakers and laughter. A lot of laughter. You’ll find that and Annie’s book, Chase the Fun at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Or you can donate by phone. Our number is 800-A-FAMILY. And this reminder, if you find yourself in Colorado, stop on by. We have a terrific Welcome Center and bookstore where you can relax, grab a bite to eat and let the kids burn off some energy in our indoor play area. Uh, right now we also have a fascinating traveling exhibit about the life of Elizabeth Elliot, and you’ll find details on our website. Next time, we’ll hear from Sarah Mackenzie, who will share the joys and benefits of reading aloud to your children.
Sarah Mackenzie: Reading did this interesting thing where it put us, almost on the same side of the fence because now we’re reading and we’re cheering and rooting for the same characters and we’re holding our breath at the same moment or gasping. You know, it realigned us to remind us who we are.
John: On behalf of the entire team, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
