Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

(Sound of children playing)

John Fuller: Isn’t that the most wonderful sound, uh, kids playing together, having fun.

Jim: (laughs)

John: It just brings a smile to my face. In today’s over, uh, scheduled world, there’s so much going on and we get distracted. It’s important for us to intentionally make time to be a family and for kids to be kids. I’m John Fuller. And today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we’re gonna explore some fun ways to connect with your grandkids.

Jim Daly: You know, John, I, I think one of my favorite memories of my boys is the many times that I’d hear them in another room laughing together.

John: Yeah.

Jim: It’s just such a good feeling-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … when they’re talking and laughing. I mean, like, gut laughing, you know? You know what I’m talking about?

John: Yep. Boys, especially, yeah.

Jim: Just that-

Susan: Mm-hmm (laughs).

Jim: Not just the hype- Y- yeah. Just real good gut laugh. Uh, but man, what a beautiful thing that is and, and what great memories to treasure. Kids grow up today, obviously, families spread out, people move. I mean, that’s the story of modern life, right? They get further away from extended family, especially grandparents, and, uh, lose a bit of that connection. I think FaceTime is a wonderful thing in that regard. I’ve done that with the boys as they’ve-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … uh, gone in different directions to be able to FaceTime with them and stay connected. Today, we do wanna talk about what you can do to be intentional in, uh, staying connected with your grandchildren and creating maybe, uh, some space and time to actually bring them and do some fun things with them.

John: Mm-hmm. And Susan Alexander Yates is with us. She’s an author, speaker, mom to five adult children. Now last count, I think 21 grandchildren?

Susan Alexander Yates: That’s right (laughs).

John: Okay.

Jim: 21, that’s good.

John: She and her husband, John, have been married for over 50 years. What a legacy. Susan has written a great book that is the basis for our conversation today, Cousin Camp: A Grandparent’s Guide to Creating Fun, Faith, and Memories That Last. And you can learn more about Susan and, uh, this book at our website. The link is at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Susan, welcome back to-

Susan: Thank you.

Jim: … Focus. You’ve been here before.

Susan: It’s great to be with you all.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: Yes. It-

Jim: Okay, Cousin Camp, I love it. People that may not like their extended family (laughs) might go, “Seriously, cousin camp?”

Susan: (laughs)

Jim: But, uh, what a concept. Just tell me what it’s about, Cousin Camp.

Susan: Well, we had five kids in seven years, and that was overwhelming for us.

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: And-

Jim: Let’s start with the parenting show.

Susan: Yeah (laughs).

John: Yeah (laughs).

Susan: It’s real.

Jim: You wanna go right to grandparenting.

Susan: Yeah, right. Well-

Jim: No, this is much easier.

Susan: This is much easier.

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: So, yes, grandparenting is much easier. But, so all five our kids are married. And as you mentioned, John, we have 21 grandchildren. And we never expected this to happen, but as we began to raise our kids and then as we began to become grandparents, one of our goals, one of our real goals has been straight from the great commandment that our kids would love the Lord their God with all their heart, mind and soul, and their neighbor as theirself. And we take that to mean your first neighbor’s really your family. So-

Jim: Ooh, that’s good.

Susan: … that became our family really vision statement, that our kids would love the Lord and that they’d love each other. And how do you bring that about, practically speaking, as your adult children live in different states and you have grandchildren who don’t know each other? How do you love someone you don’t know? And so we were asking ourselves these questions, “What can we do to foster a close-knit family when we don’t all live in the same place?” So that was where cousin camp came into being.

Jim: Yeah, that’s great. But you have, you have the grandkids all come and-

Susan: We have the grandkids all come.

Jim: … spend time with you?

Susan: They co- You ha- In order to come to camp, we have camp once a year, it’s four, four days and three nights, you have to be four years old ’cause we didn’t wanna deal with toddlers.

Jim: (laughs) Y- We’re gonna get into the qualifications.

John: (laughs)

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: But I love that idea, you gotta be four.

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: I can’t wait till I’m four.

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: That’s what happens too, they can’t wait. They wanna come sooner.

Jim: None of them lie and cheat to get in, do they?

Susan: Well, a couple of the parents-

Jim: The three-year-olds, the three-year-olds are-

Susan: … gave us pressure.

Jim: … going, “I’m four.”

Susan: (laughs)

Jim: I’ll show you my license. But, uh, that’s really funny. The, the idea, though, that, um, who, you know, people you may not know, but there is a familiarity. I remember when Trent and Troy would go to Jean’s mom and dad’s house. The very first time we took them, you, it was like they, they were at home.

John: Hmm.

Jim: It wasn’t like taking them to a stranger’s house.

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: They, there was something they just knew. And they were probably like two and four. They just knew they, this is part of the… They went to the cupboards. They found the toys.

Susan: (laughs)

Jim: They pulled ’em out.

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: They were very comfortable there.

Susan: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And I, yeah, who’s gonna be purposeful and mindful more than family, more than grandparents and parents to help children come to a relationship with Christ, right?

Susan: Yeah. I mean-

Jim: That should be our role as Christians.

Susan: It should be. And you know, one of the great things is grandparents, one of the reasons I love being a grandparent is grandparents can get away sometimes with things that the parents, if-

Jim: Sometimes?

Susan: (laughs)

Jim: All the time.

Susan: All the time.

John: (laughs)

Susan: Whereas if the pa- You know, if the parents said it, they’d just get an eye roll from the child. But if the grandmother says it, they’ll listen, and that’s a great blessing.

Jim: Yeah, you know, the, that word association that psychologists do, now you say “grandparent,” the word that comes up now is sugar.

Susan: Ah.

Jim: (laughs)

John: Grandparents.

Susan: That sounds good.

Jim: Sugar.

Susan: Sugar.

John: That’s the key.

Jim: (laughs) But listen, uh, in fact, I mean when you first did this, you spent hours cleaning, spick-and-span.

Susan: (laughs)

Jim: I could see that ’cause Jean sounds very much like you.

Susan: (laughs)

Jim: I’m gonna make sure everything is camp ready-

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: … and that everything’s ready to go. What happened?

Susan: Well, I, I invited my best friend, who lives next door, to come over to my house to see all the flowers I had put out. Everything was just perfect.

Jim: You picked fresh flowers for the grandkids?

Susan: Well-

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: … it was really to impress their parents-

Jim: Okay. Oh, okay.

Susan: … my children-

Jim: That th- things are gonna be good.

Susan: … in all honesty. That it was really to impress the parents that I had done a good job in getting the house ready. So, the parents came and dropped off the kids. You had to be four to be dropped off, and then they left with the littles. Well, within 10 minutes, my house was trashed-

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: … with sleeping bags, backpacks, muddy shoes, and nobody noticed my flowers. Nobody noticed my clean house. I called my friend and I said, “You have to come back and see this.” And she came back over and we went through every room, and we just went, “Ugh, oh my goodness.”

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: Well, I quickly had to ask myself the question, “Okay, do I want happy kids or a clean house?” And happy kids are more important. Never again have I cleaned my house before camp. It’s just not worth it.

Jim: That’s probably, yeah, that’s a-

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: … good lesson.

Susan: So, it was a great lesson.

John: Yeah, it is.

Susan: Yeah.

John: Yeah.

Jim: So if you’re that grandmother out there thinking, “Oh, that sounds good, a, a camp. That’d be great.” Don’t bother cleaning ahead of time.

Susan: Don’t bother cleaning, no.

Jim: (laughs) That’s lesson one. That’s so good.

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: But you know, families are messy. That’s the bottom line.

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: No family’s perfect. Man, do we talk about that here at Focus.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: That’s not the goal-

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: … to be perfect, just be good. And, uh, you have some advice for cultivating those healthy families. What’s your advice, uh, for people navigating those difficult family dynamics-

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: … in this context? We t- spoke off-air about that, but w- w- what are some of those things that you anticipate or that actually, you went through that made it a little more bumpy?

Susan: More bumpy. Well, I think first of all, families are messy. You know, God knew that. It started with Adam and Eve in the garden. And we just recognize that family are messy, but there’s not a single family that’s not irredeemable. And God can-

Jim: Well, no one’s beyond the reach of God.

Susan: Right.

John: Yeah.

Susan: And I think one of the things that really helps is to lead with grace. And by that, I mean assume the best. Assume that just because your daughter-in-law doesn’t communicate with you doesn’t mean she doesn’t like you. She just may have a lot of other things going on in her life. Assume the best. So I think that’s really important that we assume the best in families. I think forgiveness is really important. Actually-

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: … I think forgiveness is the most important ingredient in the family, period. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to say to my husband, John, “Honey, I shouldn’t have said so-and-so, and I need to ask you to forgive me.” I can’t remember a single time when I felt like doing that.

Jim: (laughs) That’s true.

Susan: I would rather say, “But if you had…” Or, “But if you hadn’t…” God calls us to go to one another asking forgiveness, not out of feelings-

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: … but out of obedience. And it doesn’t mean that things are automatically healed-

John: Mm-hmm.

Susan: … or that trust is restored. Healing and trust take a very long time to come about, but it can begin with the asking of forgiveness.

Jim: Susan, uh, y- you’re tipping into something that I didn’t anticipate talking to you about, but I think it’s important, that relationship with the, the in-law-

Susan: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … the daughter-in-law or the son-in-law, whichever direction it goes. Um, you know, they didn’t grow up knowing you-

Susan: Right.

Jim: … as their spouses did, as grandma.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And those conflicts can be deep. I mean, I’m sure there are people listening and viewing us right now that seems impossible for them to connect at a deeper level right now because you either perceive that person doesn’t like you or won’t tolerate you or doesn’t even like your faith.

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: It could be that. And how do you navigate that stuff with wisdom as a grandparent? Um-

Susan: Well, I think you, uh, again, you assume the best and you invite them to come and not knowing if they will or not. And you always speak with grace. And one of the things that’s also helpful is to say to your, and I’ve done this with my sons and daughters that are mine, “How can I love your spouse well?”

Jim: Wow. Yeah, that’s good.

Susan: That’s really helpful. You know, I’d say to my hus- ha- my son, “How can I love your spouse well? Give me three very specific ways to love her.” And he’ll say, “Call her or text her.” And for another one, it would be very different.

John: Mm.

Susan: So I think we use what I call the clue-in principle. We ask our kids, and you can use this on every level, with grandkids too, how can I love someone well? What are some specific things that I can do?

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Yeah, that’s really good. I don’t know the grandmother equivalent of this, but I was out playing, uh, with a guy, playing golf. And he, uh, misses the green by a few feet, and he goes, “Ah, that’s a son-in-law shot.”

Susan: (laughs)

Jim: And I went, “What’s that?” He goes, “Well, it’s close enough but not what I was hoping for.”

Susan: (laughs) Oh my goodness.

Jim: So I mean, you get-

Susan: That’s so funny.

John: (laughs)

Jim: … you get all these kinds-

Susan: Yeah.

John: Oh my goodness.

Jim: … of things and you know, as a Christian-

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: … we need to, you know, we need to do the things we need to do to develop that relationship.

Susan: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So that’s a good reminder because I think in part, you were able to create this cousin camp because you had the buy-in of your adult children.

Susan: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know? Did you ever experience any of the kids say, “Well, you know, mom, I don’t know that’s gonna be right and, you know, Susan’s not, uh, really into doing this”?

Susan: Not that I know of. I mean, it’s just been a gift from God. I know many people have those issues, and that’s why I say-

Jim: Have you ever counseled a grandmother through that?

Susan: … “Lead with grace.” And I have just said, “Keep the long-range view.”

Jim: Yeah, that’s good.

Susan: Yeah, that’s another blessing of being older is we have seen God turn around things-

John: Mm-hmm.

Susan: … and turn around relationships. And you just keep giving grace. Keep giving grace and keep praying, and one day, perhaps, they’ll return.

Jim: Yeah. Y- you know, one of the things in designing this event, you know, for these four days, four days, three nights, is that it?

Susan: Four days, three nights.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, you say you design it in such a way that you, you understand and, and kinda create it for their individual skills. That sounds like a lot of work, grandma.

Susan: (laughs)

Jim: Seriously.

Susan: Well, I, you know, I go back to a Proverb. It’s Proverbs 27:23, and it says, “Know well the condition of your flocks.” And I sort of take that as a mandate to study my children and my grandchildren and to ask questions like, “Okay, God, how have you packaged this particular child?” And I get the parents’ input on this too. What are some of her fears coming to camp? What are some of the things that she loves to do in life? How can I affirm her gifts? Is she a leader? Is she a follower? Is she sensitive? Is she creative? So, I take that Proverb real seriously, study my kids. And John and I sort of, we had a mentor, a wonderful mentor named Chuck Miller who developed this. We didn’t develop it ourselves, but Chuck and Cathy Miller developed this philosophy of thinking through needs and goals, and then you design your program. And with needs, you think through a filter of five areas of growth, emotional, physical, mental, spiritual, and social. So I have Lyndon coming to camp, and she’s six. And I’ll think through, “Okay, what are Lyndon’s social needs?”

John: Mm.

Susan: And social an- and emotional can cross over.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: Lyndon has a cousin who I would really love for her to know who’s from a different state, and they don’t get much time together. So one of the social needs is for Lyndon to feel comfortable and get to know her Cousin Gray. So I will put them together and have them sleep on the floor in our bedroom and pray that they’ll bond over the years.

John: Mm-hmm.

Susan: And the first year there at camp, they really didn’t like each other, but we worked on it. And now they’re besties, as the girls call it.

John: Mm.

Jim: Yeah, no, that’s great.

Susan: So-

Jim: The intentionality of it is fabulous.

Susan: You, you have to be really intentional. And here again, parents-

John: Yeah.

Susan: … can be helpful as they can fill you in on, okay, this son of mine, he’s a bit ticked with all his brothers. He’s one of four boys, please put him on teams and doing things with his cousins and not his brothers.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: So that would be a social need. A spiritual need, has this child really come to the place where they’ve asked Christ into their life? And that’s a big part of camp. It’s very natural, very unpressured. But, so we try to find that out or where they are.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: And so it goes on like that.

Jim: You know, Susan, one thing we have to recognize is that y- you’re able, you and your husband, you have a, a little farm, a little ranch that you could do this at. Not everybody’s gonna have that ability. Uh, but I’m sure they’re living in a home, maybe an apartment or condo, I don’t know.

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: Can you scale this in such a way that you have, you know, one or two of the grandkids over or three or four?

Susan: Oh, yeah. And actually, in the book I, I have a whole section in the book of how other people do it differently.

Jim: Oh, okay.

Susan: Because there’s not one way to do camp. You know, the purpose is to build relationships and to help our kids grow in love for one another and, and love for the Lord. So you can have a, quote, “camp” in an apartment in a big city, and you just have to learn to take advantage of the things in your neighborhood-

John: Right.

Susan: … like, big cities have parks.

Jim: Right.

Susan: So you use parks. So, we have a tiny little farm, and we just pack kids in. They sleep on floors, they sleep in closets.

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: And it’s messy and there’s sleeping bags everywhere.

Jim: I think that’s great.

Susan: But it’s great. So it’s not about having a big, fancy place. It’s really about being together.

John: Mm.

Jim: Yeah. And then you pack all these fun activities in. Okay, the one I want to come to your camp-

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: … and participate in is making the big banana split.

Susan: (laughs)

Jim: That’s-

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: That’s what I wanna do. What is the big banana split?

Susan: Banana… Well, I went to a ho- This was in one of our early camps, probably the first camp. I went to hardware store and just bought a gutter, you know, just a regular gutter-

John: A rain gutter for a house.

Susan: … a rain gutter for a house, and lined it with aluminum foil and then filled it with ice cream all the way down this long gutter, different kinds of ice cream and the different toppings and sprinkles and cherries, et cetera. And the first year we did it, we had all the kids line up, and they were little. They weren’t… This was before we had all 21 at camp. There were probably 10 of them at this point. And we, we put their hands behind their back and told-

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: … them they had to eat with their faces.

Jim: This is getting better and better.

John: (laughs)

Susan: Well, that really was a flop. The kids thought that was gross. And this was pre-COVID, so yeah, it probably-

Jim: Okay (laughs).

Susan: … was gross. So the next year we switched to spoons. They could do it with spoons. But they love it. And even now that they’re all in their teens and older, the ice cream gutter is a staple at camp every year.

Jim: Oh, I bet it is.

John: Mm.

Jim: That just sounds like so much fun.

Susan: It’s so much fun.

Jim: Although the four or five-year-olds, they really need the big tablespoons, like serving spoons.

Susan: Yeah (laughs).

Jim: And then the, the olders, they need little teaspoons.

Susan: They need, yeah. That-

John: (laughs)

Susan: … actually, that would be a brilliant idea.

Jim: Yeah, there you go. We got-

Susan: That would be an adjustment.

Jim: … a little handicapping for the game here, right?

Susan: Yeah, thank you for that.

Jim: I think it’s-

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: … a good idea.

John: Yeah. Well, we’re having fun talking about ice cream and grandkids here on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, and our guest is Susan Alexander Yates. And, uh, she is just full of great ideas and energy, as you can tell. Get a copy of the book Susan has written called Cousin Camp: A Grandparents Guide to Creating Fun, Faith, and Memories That Last. It is terrific. It outlines so much of what you’re hearing and, and way beyond what we’re able to cover today. Uh, we can tell you more when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Um, some f- fun and great ideas you have in the book, like the band of cousins ceremony.

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: What, what’s the band of cousins? I just wanna be a part of it.

Susan: You wanna be (laughs)-

Jim: I don’t have any cousins.

John: Sounds appealing.

Jim: I need cousins.

John: Aw.

Susan: You need cousins. Well, we decided that we would have sort of an initiation ceremony the last night of camp every year where the new kids, the newbies, we call them, would be brought in to the band of cousins. And they would recite the pledge, I pledge to love the Lord and to take care of my cousins. That’s a very-

Jim: Wow, yeah.

Susan: … simple pledge. You wanna keep things simple with kids.

John: Mm-hmm.

Susan: And we have a procession to just an outdoor area on our little farm by candlelight. The first year we did this I had real candles.

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: They dripped all over the hands (laughs). It was really bad.

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: So you learn a lot from your mistakes. The next year, we just had the little vot- you know, the electric ones.

Jim: The electric, battery powered.

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: And we have a ceremony, and the kids each say the pledge. And it’s sort of a solemn ceremony.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: And then the older cousins will share what it means to be a cousin and to care for one another with-

John: Mm.

Susan: … the littles. We call them the littles.

Jim: Yeah, sure.

Susan: And that’s been really profound. Over the years, probably one of my most rewarding things has been seeing the big kids care for the younger ones.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: It nurtures that kind of environment.

Susan: It nurtures that environment.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: And it’s really biblical. It’s loving your neighbor, your cousin, as yourself, but it also trains them to love other people outside the family.

Jim: Yeah.

John: Mm-hmm.

Susan: ‘Cause the goal is that this won’t be just a family thing, this is a trickle-down thing into how we love the world.

Jim: Yeah, totally.

Susan: And that’s what we want our kids to learn.

Jim: But it starts right there with the core family.

Susan: It starts… right.

Jim: I think it’s a great thing. You’ve got older grandchildren now that are-

Susan: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … in their twenties.

Susan: Right.

Jim: They’ve married. What are some of their recollections and observations of what they learned through this process?

Susan: Well, you know, it’s interesting that you would ask that because one of my granddaughters who’s just finished her freshman year in college was asked by a family in her town just this past week to come and be staff for their third cousin camp.

John: Ah.

Susan: And so she went to run the cousin camp of a family in her town with, I think it’s seven kids ages five to 12. And so interviewed her yesterday, and I said, “Isabel, what was it like? You’re doing this. This is so exciting to me. You are taking to the next generation what you have grown up with.” And she said, “Gee…” The kids call me Gee. She said, “Gee, it was really neat because I felt like I could particularly talk to the 11 and 12-year-old girls about how to be friends with their siblings. We could do crafts together, beading.” That’s a great winner of a craft-

John: Mm-hmm.

Susan: … by the way, making things with beads. But she sa-

Jim: B-E-A-D-I-N-G.

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: Not (laughs), not beating.

Susan: Yeah, yeah.

John: (laughs)

Susan: Good clarification.

John: It’s hard and it’s tough in this camp.

Jim: Uh, you can hear two things out of that one.

Susan: That’s really important.

Jim: Yeah.

John: Mm.

Susan: But Isabel used a lot of the craft ideas that she had grown up with at our camp, but also, she used a lot of learning how to have meaningful conversations with these kids.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: And then the mom of these kids was able to set Isabel up and said, “Isabel, tell them how you have your private devotions. What do you do in your devotions?” And these 11 and 12-year-old girls, again, are going to hear what Isabel does in a way that they wouldn’t hear from mom or dad or even grandparents.

Jim: Yeah. How many years now have you done this?

Susan: We’ve done cousin camp for 11 years.

Jim: 11 years.

Susan: 11 years.

Jim: That’s great. What do your adult children and their spouses say to you about it? D- Uh, is there feedback?

Susan: Um-

Jim: You do a little survey for them?

Susan: No (laughs).

Jim: (laughs) How are the grandchildren behaving now that they’ve come to cousin camp?

Susan: C- They behave much better for me than they do their parents.

John: Yeah.

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: Um, which is great.

Jim: There is that power of a grandparent.

Susan: There is that power of the grandparents. You know, I think one of the things that we as grandparents have to learn, and also as parents, is we have to release the expectation to be appreciated.

Jim: Ah.

Susan: Because the reality is that your kids and your grandkids are not going to appreciate you in the way you wish they did.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: Now, I’m not saying that my kids haven’t been thankful, but generally speaking, they don’t understand all the work that goes into something like this.

Jim: Exactly (laughs).

Susan: So what you do, guys, is you get a girlfriend or a guy friend who does appreciate what-

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: … you’re doing, so a peer who says, “You know, I can’t believe you’re doing all of this, and what can I do to help?” And you get prayer partners to pray for you.

John: Mm.

Susan: That’s really important while you’re having camp. But we get feedback, you know, that, from the kids sometimes and from the grandkids sometimes, and we get little thank you notes sometimes from some of them. And that’s wonderful, but you gotta let go of that expectation.

Jim: Yeah. That, I was just thinking the application for that. I mean, within your church, you could create-

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: … like, a, a grandparent-cousin club effort.

Susan: You could. Yes.

Jim: So you can help each other socially, you know, your grandparents in the same church.

Susan: Right.

Jim: You’ve got samples of journals in front of you, and I wanna touch-

Susan: Uh-huh (laughs).

Jim: … on this ’cause they’re, you know, they’re, the pictures of the grandkids are there. They’re so beautiful (laughs). I love it. I can’t wait.

Susan: (laughs)

Jim: Well, I can wait til they get married, and then they-

Susan: Yeah.

Jim: … can have grandkids.

Susan: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But yeah, describe the journals and what you do for each one.

Susan: Well, what we do each year when the kids come, the newbies, the four-year-olds, come to camp, they get their own journal with a picture that I’ve gotten from their parents of anything-

Jim: Right.

Susan: … to put on it. So they have their own picture on the journal. So I just brought along three of the journals to show. And we have-

Jim: Three of the 21.

Susan: Three of the 21.

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: Yeah. And the journals live at our house. They don’t take them home because they would lose them.

Jim: Right.

Susan: And they’d never come back. So I have all 21 journals on my shelf. And each year, we do Bible study in the morning, very short, 30 minutes. And the kids write and draw pictures-

John: Mm.

Susan: … in the journals. And the first thing they write is their testimony. So each of my children have a buddy. This has been the most popular thing, so I’ll tell you about that in a minute, a popular thing at camp that anybody can do. But they sit with their big buddies at camp, and the big buddy helps them, ’cause the four-year-olds don’t write that neatly.

Jim: And the big buddy’s another cousin, right, just older?

Susan: The big buddy’s another cousin.

John: Yeah.

Susan: Not a sibling, but an older cousin. And you know, they draw pictures. So this is her first drawing on faithfulness. I’m not quite sure what that meant.

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: But, um, she has her testimony in this and she says, “Sailor chose Isabel,” that was an older cousin, “to help welcome God into her heart on Saturday, May 28th. Dear Jesus, will you please come into my heart and let me follow you? Amen. Sailor welcomed him in the great room in the farm with all the cousins. Sailor says, ‘A lot happened.’” (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

John: Ah.

Susan: So, we, we shared Christ just matter-of-factly. We have the older kids share how they asked Christ into their heart. Sometimes it wasn’t at camp, sometimes it was in the car.

John: Mm.

Susan: Um, sometimes it was with a parent. Some are still thinking about it, and that’s okay.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: No pressure. It’s just, is this something you would like to do? I’ll tell you just one other funny thing. This is Alexander and when he was four and came to camp, we asked him, we said, “Alexander, have you ever asked Jesus into your heart?” And he said, “Hmm. I’m not sure.” And we said, “Well, would you like to?” And he said, “Yes.” And, “Well, who would you like to do it with?” And all the c- bigger cousins raised their hand, “Me! Me!”

Jim: (laughs)

Susan: They wanted to be the ones. And he looked around and he said, “No, Poppy.” So he said to his grandfather, “I wanna do it with you.” And Poppy said, “Well, where would you like to do it?” And he said, “Outside in the hammock.” So they went out into the hammock and Alexander asked Christ into his life. And they came back in. As they came back into the room, all the cousins stood up and clapped.

John: Aw.

Jim: Wow, what a powerful thing.

Susan: So it’s so powerful because-

Jim: I could see it and feel it.

Susan: … it’s so natural.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: You know, it’s not awkward.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: That’s the great thing. There’s so many great things about being-

John: Mm-hmm.

Susan: … grandparents but is… The awkwardness sometimes goes away-

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: … because it’s a generation removed.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: And-

Jim: And I love your enthusiasm, and it comes, it pours out of every pore in your body, you know?

John: Yeah.

Jim: You’re, you could tell you are very excited about being a grandmother and with great intentionality.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And that’s what’s so wonderful about it, and everybody can kinda add their unique spin to this. That’s what’s wonderful. But the intentionality is what’s really captured-

Susan: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … me. And man, this is, this is really good, Susan. You’ve done a fabulous-

Susan: (laughs)

Jim: … job-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … of communicating this.

Susan: Well, you know, we’ve made a lot of mistakes.

Jim: I love going right back to the messy house on day one-

Susan: Oh, the messy house.

Jim: … the first time you did it. That’s exactly what Jean, my wife, would do-

Susan: Would-

Jim: … is to clean the house spick-and-span. Then all these grandkids come over and destroy it within minutes.

Susan: (laughs)

Jim: And, and the idea of it’s all lost at this point. The other m- really important thing I’m hearing from you is expectations are very light.

Susan: Yes.

Jim: All the kids don’t have to come to Christ. They’re not, you’re not lining them up-

Susan: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … saying, “Okay, you have to…”

Susan: No.

Jim: It’s not weird in that way, but it’s just family. It’s family aiming for the right things.

Susan: Right.

Jim: And everybody’s coming along.

Susan: Yeah.

John: Mm-hmm.

Susan: And you have a schedule, and we post the schedules, but then you have to be willing to throw anything out at any moment that doesn’t seem appropriate.

John: Yeah.

Jim: Yeah. Well, listen, grandparents, if this is striking a chord with you, which it should, again, I wish I were in that category, not there yet, but, um, man, get ahold of us. If you can make a gift of any amount, we’ll send you Susan’s book, Cousin Camp, as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. And it’s chock-full of great ideas on what to do with your grandchildren. And, uh, Susan, thanks for all the effort of putting that together.

Susan: Oh, well, thank you for having me.

Jim: Yeah, thanks for being here.

Susan: This has been great.

Jim: This is good. You’re full of energy. It’s fun to, to watch you.

Susan: Oh, well, thank you.

Jim: Yeah, and you’re a proud grandma, which is a good thing.

Susan: I’m a thankful grandmother.

Jim: Yeah.

Susan: (laughs)

John: Well, donate to the work of Focus on the Family today and help us, uh, inspire other grandparents and families to have close connections and to, uh, develop faith. Um, we’ve been at this for a long time, Jim, and our, our listeners and viewers, uh, provide the fuel that allows ministry to happen. So please, join the support team today with a monthly contribution or a one-time gift of any amount. We’ll say thank you by sending a copy of the terrific little book by Susan, Cousin Camp: A Grandparent’s Guide to Creating Fun, Faith, and Memories That Last. Give us a call, 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And coming up on Monday, powerful ways to bring more peace to your life.

Kay Wyma: And that is probably one of the most powerful statements to hit to the why, why is somebody being rude? Why are they honking at you? If we can h- go to the why, then we can see the humans involved in it and lead with compassion.

John: Thanks for listening today to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.