Focus on the Family Broadcast

Preview:

Hettie Brittz: God is, uh, shaping both you and your child through the dissonance that you experience, uh, because your temperament is not the same as your child. And when you, rub them up the wrong way, they still are growing through that, and so are you.

End of Preview

John Fuller: That’s author and speaker Hettie Brittz describing the interplay of different personalities in your family and how you can benefit from those. We’ll hear more from Hettie today on Focus on the Family. Thanks for joining us. Your host is Focus president and author Jim Daly, and I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, I wanna start with scripture that’s relevant for our discussion today. First Corinthians 12 says this, now there are a variety of gifts, but the same spirit, and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord, and there are a variety of activities, but it’s the same God who empowers them all in everyone. That’s really the essence of what we heard last time from Hettie, this idea that each one of us have different God-given personalities and perspectives, and sometimes those differences will clash. But it’s ultimately for our good and for the good of God’s kingdom. Hettie’s done a wonderful job of applying these different personalities to trees so we can better understand the unique characteristics of people and why they behave the way they do. Uh, we covered all of that last time. And if you missed it, get the CD or download from us here at Focus on the Family or get the Focus broadcast app so you can listen that way.

John: And a foundational element of the conversation is, uh, the book by Hettie called Growing Kids with Character. It’s a wonderful resource for your family, and you can learn more when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And now here’s part two of our conversation with Hettie Brittz on today’s episode of Focus on the Family.

Jim: Hettie, we do welcome you back. Uh, last time we talked about these characteristics and it’s brilliant what you’ve done. I mean, to put these in the context of trees, um, and it really helps a parent better understand who they are and who their children are wired to be. And, uh, probably the, the nugget I pulled out of the program last time, is this idea that we have conflict with our children and much of it is going to be rooted in this communication style issue. Uh, the parent being built a certain way by God. Uh, and then the child to be maybe sometimes opposite of that. And so you have conflict when conflict doesn’t need to exist, really, you just need to understand each other a bit better. And for the parent, the adult in the room to really work that understanding so that they could help shape their children and help develop their character. Is that a good summary?

Hettie: Absolutely. Because from that, my question as a parent is, so if I know this is my child and these are my child’s needs, how many of those needs should I indulge? And when should I shape? Um, ’cause the world out there is not gonna say, give me your tree type and then I will do everything in a way that makes you happy. Um, so it’s that fine line between shaping them to be able to work in a world within anybody. People are not like them, and they don’t accommodate their needs, but also to make sure that in my house, they know they’re all loved and welcomed and that I teach in a way that works, that I disciple their heart and that I help them on their route that God has for them.

Jim: Right.

Hettie: Because they’re all gonna honor God in different ways. We just read about those gifts and those activities that are gonna be different with each child, but it’s, they all have in them a seed, to be God-honoring people, to bring him glory in their personality.

Jim: Sure. And it’s important to know right from the outset, whatever your lumber is, if you pardon the pun, um-

Hettie: No, I love the pun.

Jim: God is in this. I mean, that’s the, the brilliance of it, that God is present and it’s all about being rooted in His character and developing in His character so that you can be a formidable tool in His hands while we walk this earth. And that’s what you’re getting at. So let’s get to it. Uh, last time we talked about the palm tree, which I resonate with. It’s kind of the fun-loving person who, uh, wants to go to the party and, and interact with people. You get a lot of energy. Usually it shows up in children, as you described yesterday as that energetic, talkative child, which I was. And uh, you know, that, that child just has a real insatiable desire to know things. And they’re just bugging you sometimes.

Hettie: Yeah. And they, they’re on the go and, and we wanna put them in the box and we wanna get them into a routine and it’s not really working. And, and actually our base investment it’s gonna be in, in discipling their heart, making sure they follow the right moral, you know, pointers, good friends, good role models.

Jim: Right.

Hettie: Um, and by, by keeping in mind, their purpose, ’cause this design is so that they can influence people, so that they can draw people into the kingdom, so that they can communicate ideas-

Jim: Right.

Hettie: … about God. And as long we’re nurturing that, we’re doing our most important job.

Jim: I could see these being the evangelists.

Hettie: Absolutely.

Jim: These are the ones that get engaged with culture.

Hettie: Totally.

Jim: They’ll go to the party. They don’t care. And they’ll talk to people about the Lord and that’s a wonderful way to look at it. Then you talked about the rose bush, your self-proclaimed rose bush. That’s how you describe your-

Hettie: I have a lot of-

Jim: …. parenting style, but that’s uh, what, what’s the rose bush?

Hettie: Um, feisty, forward-looking, fast, uh, wanting stuff to get done yesterday.

Jim: Where’s the quickly part?

Hettie: Oh, in the words. (laughs). We, we are a bit sharp and-

Jim: To the point.

Hettie: Yes. I mean, this is the child who, who tells you, you are not being fair. This is what you did yesterday. Here are your mistakes. You really should be more of this or be you more of that. And then they’re often right, but it hurts. It’s the prophetic.

Jim: Right. When you look at the scripture, would you say Paul was a rose bush? I think I would see him as a rose bush.

Hettie: Straight shooter. Very determined. Very brave.

Jim: Yeah.

Hettie: And when God calls him, he says, I’m going to show him how much he must suffer for the gospel. If you tell a rose bush kid, I’m gonna let you do this, but it’s gonna be very tough, nobody’s ever gotten this right. They go, bring it on.

Jim: They want the-

Hettie: That’s what they want.

Jim: They want the challenge.

Hettie: Yes, please. Don’t make it, very often, the reason they misbehave is life is too easy.

Jim: Wow. Interesting.

John: I like how you pulled, um, the scripture to give an illustration of that. Go back to the palm tree because I don’t remember the biblical character you said for that.

Hettie: Peter.

John: Okay.

Hettie: Peter was undisciplined. He ran off his mouth. He spoke as much as all the other apostles put together. And whenever Jesus asked a question to the disciples [crosstalk 00:06:31].

Jim: He came around though, let’s give him credit.

Hettie: Yes. But God-

John: That’s the hope, right?

Hettie: But he needed to be spoken to three times. Jesus asked him three times, do you love me? And it was because he didn’t want this off the bat answer. He wanted Peter to really engage with his heart. But Jesus did it in such a beautiful way. He took him to the beach where the palm trees wanna be. And he made him some fish on the fire, and he related with him. And then he said, are you really with me? And then He gave him this beautiful calling to feed the sheep, to take care of the lambs because they are about the people, that’s a beautiful calling. And then on the day of Pentecost, he brings thousands of people into the kingdom with one great speech, an inspired speech because this is what they’re able to do.

Jim: Well, what’s so beautiful about what you’re describing is that our Heavenly Father and you know, through the Lord Jesus, knows how to communicate to us, each of us, ’cause Peter is very different from Paul.

Hettie: Yeah.

Jim: Paul’s saying you’re gonna suffer for me. And, uh, and Paul was kinda like, okay, bring it on.

Hettie: Yeah. And when there was a sign of suffering, Peter denied Jesus.

Jim: Right.

Hettie: He needed to be coached in a, in a very different way.

Jim: How fascinating? And it shows the, uh, I think the accuracy of this and how we view ourselves and, and our Lord. All right. Let’s move to the boxwood. Um, we ended there, we gave brief descriptions last time, but most of us won’t even know what a boxwood is. So I’m sorry for our ignorance.

John: I had to go online to see, to see it.

Hettie: Right.

Jim: But describe boxwood. And what are the attributes?

Hettie: The original name that we, you used to, uh, call them by in the past was lollipop trees, ’cause they’re these perfectly shaped round trees, but they can also be shaped into a triangle or a square or any shape you like. They’re-

Jim: Topiary.

Hettie: … pruneable. Yes. They [crosstalk].

Jim: The elephant in Disneyland.

Hettie: Exactly.

Jim: Right.

Hettie: But they can also be these, these hedges around, you know, the, the princess gardens and they’re incredibly teachable, the same way these shrubs are moldable.

Jim: Okay.

Hettie: Um, this is the child who says, just tell me the way it needs to be done, by when and how many times, and they wanna do it right. So they have a natural tendency to feel boundaries and to see them and to need them. So when books tell you, children need boundaries and they love boundaries, then just keep in mind, it’s probably a boxwood who wrote the book.

Jim: Yes.

Hettie: And who believes this firmly that this applies to all kids, um, because the boxwoods are kind of square and, and linear and things need to be just, just right.

Jim: But logical, at least like we described the engineer, last time we said is kind of that attribute.

Hettie: So th- this child does everything right by the book and the parent thinks what’s so hard about this. Why can’t everybody else just produce really well-behaved kids? Um, because I just did everything right, as the book said, and then my child sleeps through the night and feeds when it needs to and-

Jim: Does everything well.

Hettie: It’s still in church and reads these little book on the, you know, on the long journey off to the beach. And, uh, they are easy to parent in that way, except they are emotionally high maintenance.

Jim: Right. So describe that for the parent who is the parent of a boxwood child. I mean, you have, uh, the descriptions are probably, you know, this is my in easiest child. This is the one. I mean, you tell them what to do and he or she does it. Those would be the kind of descriptors you’ll be using as a parent.

Hettie: They do comply. But there is this whiny voice that comes with the compliance. There is this, but I just wanna do this first. And, but there’s a little spot on my pants, I can’t wear them, but this is not exactly what the teacher said. You know, there’s-

Jim: Interesting.

Hettie: There’s something of a sensitivity there and a discomfort with things not being exactly right. So they can be finicky and that goes from, all the way from how they eat and what they will wear and how they need things done. This is a child who will be so compliant in the next minute you make the biggest mistake, you cut their sandwich in squares and it should have been triangles, and the day is over.

Jim: Really?

Hettie: Yes.

Jim: So perfectionistic is the other big descriptor.

Hettie: That is unfortunate thing, yes.

Jim: Kind of the, the root of that.

Hettie: The teachers love that.

Jim: How do you parent to soften that? How, and is it appropriate to say, okay, I recognize my child as a boxwood, a perfectionist, often easy. They’ll do exactly what I want them to do. And I love that as a parent, it makes my day easier. But how do you parent them to be less perfectionist to be comfortable with imperfection?

Hettie: It’s very hard. If, if we look at the way God did this in Moses, Moses complained to God about the people all the time. I mean, he had reason, but-

Jim: So Moses was the boxwood?

Hettie: He was very much, yeah, and we see him complaining and stressing and really struggling with the burden of leading the people. And God helps him out of this, but it takes time, and he doesn’t go into the promised land. He gets to stand in the promised land the first time when Jesus is transfigured on the Mount. And there’s almost something of a boxwood really needing time to get to a place where they can choose grace over the law ’cause that essentially is what you’re gonna teach-

Jim: So they’re gonna be hard on themselves and hard on others around them.

Hettie: They are.

Jim: Because they’re not measuring up the perfection.

Hettie: They could be critical, and they need Christ, um, to help them understand what it is to be acceptable even when you are flawed. The phrase, good enough is gonna be the one-

Jim: Really important.

Hettie: … that’s gonna be challenging.

Jim: That’s critical. I, I know, uh, you know, one of my children, they really stress about getting straight A’s. And I could see the anxiety and I wanted to make sure we want to hold a high standard. It’s wonderful that you’re doing that, but you know, a B is gonna be okay if, if in the relaxation, the thought that really dad is that okay? I said, well, you always wanna do your best obviously, but I don’t want you being anxious and stressing to the point where it’s hurting you emotionally or spiritually. And it, it, it has made a difference. I could see that relaxation occur and in a good way, in a healthy way. And it doesn’t mean, uh, you know, I want mediocre, but he is still doing well and getting good enough grades to your point. And he doesn’t have to reach for perfection.

Hettie: That’s so valuable because you’re separating what he does from who he is.

Jim: Right.

Hettie: And that is what we, we can help them do. By embracing their deep emotionality, um, we build relationship with them. If we cannot deal with a meltdown, we cannot deal with a crime, we cannot deal with a whining, not in a sense that we, we give in when they use it to manipulate. But in the sense that when they’ve had a tough day and they really down about it, we need to be able to embrace that and say, today felt like the worst day of the year.

Jim: So disciplining this child, how does that go and what does it look like?

Hettie: You, it’s very easy. You basically remind them of the rule, and they remember that they were wrong, and you tell them what they can do next time or even ask them. So, you know you did wrong. What would you like to do next time? And they, if they can verbalize it, you’re almost good to go. Very little punishment is needed. They do it to themselves.

Jim: How do, how do we step on the oxygen hose of this child? ‘Cause I think this child’s gonna be very sensitive, of all the children types-

Hettie: Yeah.

Jim: … how do we do that as a parent? What do we need to be mindful of?

Hettie: By punishing them after they’ve already shown remorse, it’s not necessary. They are guilt and shame magnets. So shaming is a very, very, a harmful thing with them. They were easily humiliated. They remember those words; they remember what you were wearing. We, we sometimes jokingly, but with a lot of empathy, say that they file all of the negative words on the hard drive alphabetically with the date and they can pull those things up anytime. And then the good words, the kindness, the encouragements-

Jim: The positive-

Hettie: Those are the things they stamp as highly suspicious and they put them on, you know, a thumb drive.

Jim: Interesting.

Hettie: They do-

Jim: They don’t even trust that.

Hettie: Always believe that.

Jim: Oh, that’s too bad. That makes my heart heavy for them actually.

Hettie: It, it is hard. And, and that is why acceptance and daily reassurance, the way God tells us that He loves us and His reassurance throughout out His word is the way we parent this child’s heart. Daily reassurance that they are good enough and that we love them just because they are ours.

Jim: All right. We’ve got the palm tree, the rose bush, the boxwood now, and then we need to move into the pine tree.

Hettie: Yeah.

Jim: So the pine tree, I love the imagery of that, big, bold, rooted.

Hettie: Yes, very rooted.

Jim: But can be isolated, a little loner bit, but, uh, people oriented.

Hettie: You get the metaphor. You, you can present the courses, we’ll accredit you as a facilitator.

Jim: I’d love it. Go for it.

Hettie: You ready to teach this.

Jim: Give us, give us more description though.

Hettie: Yes. Um, when you step into a pine tree forest, you feel like you need to settle down, have a little picnic there.

Jim: It is calming.

Hettie: And just breathe and they do this to us. And this child will slow you down, whether you wanna be slowed down or not.

Jim: What does that look like? Give me an example.

Hettie: That is them forgetting that it’s Monday, and not getting dressed for school. And you go, how is this possible that you could have gotten distracted a on your way to the cupboard? But they can just be a little dreamy. And they’re not in a hurry because to them, it’s not about getting stuff done. It’s about being, it’s the journey. It’s the people around them. It’s the impressions and the atmosphere. So they help us realize that it is about people and not about stuff. When we try and negotiate with them and put rewards on the table, you know, and deal a little bit, they are immune to that because they’re so contained. So if you tell them, but I’ll buy you, you know, a new phone if you’ll just study harder and bring home better grades, they’re like, my phone is fine. I’m quite okay with the phone I have.

Jim: Now, does that work in the opposite direction with discipline? If you say, listen, I’m not gonna let you do any gaming. I’m not gonna let you do certain things, and they’ll go, okay.

Hettie: Yeah.

Jim: And they’ll just sit with it?

Hettie: Yeah.

Jim: Okay.

Hettie: They are equally difficult to, to punish.

Jim: So now I’ve got a combo kid in my mind, I’ve got the palm tree, pine tree.

John: I know what you’re talking about.

Jim: I’ve got the palm pine.

Hettie: Yes. But they do feel the, the pinch when you take away their relaxation and their comfort zone from them. So when you discipline by taking away the time with friends, the time in front of their screens, their computer games, they do, they do feel it.

Jim: How do you discipline the pine tree? The, the one that’s moving, you know, kind of through world at their own pace. And they, for the 20th time, they haven’t been able to get dressed for school on time. And you’re ranting and raving, what is your problem, Johnny? How come you cannot get ready for school? How many times do I gotta tell you at 7:30 to go get ready and it’s eight o’clock and you’re still not ready? And mommy, can’t keep doing this for you. I think everybody’s getting the feeling.

Hettie: Absolutely.

Jim: Making me feel odd already.

John: Just now, yeah.

Jim: You feel it. Uh, how does mommy be more effective rather than coming back and saying, get dressed and fight that battle?

Hettie: We need to understand that discipline only works, and punishment and reward only work on an area where a child willfully makes a certain decision not to do what you ask them. These kids don’t decide not to do it, they just forget. That just doesn’t cross their mind, so we need to give them strategies.

Jim: So, so you-

Hettie: So this is child with the alarm clock.

Jim: Right. Ok.

Hettie: This is a child with a chart and or, and this is a child with big, red bow around that particular item you never, you know, or she never takes to school. So it’s about strategies and working with them.

Jim: You mentioned hybrids. And so again, one of the things, if you’re hearing us say everybody is one thing or the other, no, no, there’s all these combinations. It’s infinite how much, uh, percentage you work in, as a pine tree, as a, as a box tree, as a rose bush, you’re gonna flow through all of these, I would think. You’re gonna have some preset things or your default mode but speak to the hybrids. Palm roses, box palms, pine palms, all that, that’s gotta be fun.

Hettie: Lots of fun. Sometimes two completely opposite trees come together like a rose who is feisty and fast and a doer. And then you have the pine who’s a thinker and who is an introverted type of kid and, and, and more people oriented. And when these two come together, you have what we call the CEO profile because you have a person who wants to get stuff done, but at the same time, doesn’t want anybody hurt. So this child will be, um, not very talkative, maybe not very popular, but a really good leader, because they both know where, where we should be going and who should be going with us on that route. And it’s usually a boy. We don’t often see that doubly unemotional combination get together in a girl.

Jim: That’s fascinating.

Hettie: Yes.

Jim: Now, that could be risky saying that in modern culture.

Hettie: It can be.

Jim: That boys and girls can’t be everything. But you’re saying just generally, you see that attribute in boys more than girls. What is it in girls that make them, probably the relational side is probably more-?

Hettie: The, the more emotional sides-

Jim: More wired for people.

Hettie: You’ll see a lot of the, the girls who have the combination of the boxwood, who is perfectionistic and systematic, and then the outgoing palm tree. And when those two come together, you have a very, uh, intensely emotional kid who can ride the roller coaster, depends on which side of the bed they get up, you know, this morning. And they can be high maintenance for a pine tree parent who wants peace and harmony, and this child is, is, you know, either high or very low.

Jim: Right.

John: That’s Hettie Brittz discussing her book, Growing Kids with Character: Nurturing Your Child’s Potential, Purpose and Passion. Hettie is our guest today on Focus on the Family, and we hope that you like what you’re hearing. Now, if you do, contact us to get a copy of her book, Growing Kids with Character, our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459, or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Here now is the conclusion of our conversation with Hettie Brittz on Focus on the Family.

Jim: Hettie, let me bounce off something John just mentioned, 60% of adults and children identify with more than one temperament, but you also say 7 to 10% of adults and children identify with three types.

Hettie: Yes.

Jim: I mean, I, I can, that’s where I’m at. I feel like I can be any of those three.

Hettie: Yeah, you are probably what we call a contra pine, which means you have rose-

Jim: Contraband?

John: I’ve said that about you for years.

Jim: I’m contraband? Contra pine.

Hettie: Contra pine because you have everything except pine.

Jim: Yeah.

Hettie: Um, you have boxwood, rose and, and palm tree rolled into one. So you can make those important decisions. You can make sure the people are, uh, onboard by motivating them. Oh, maybe you’re a contra boxwood actually.

Jim: It could be.

Hettie: Yes, because-

Jim: I don’t think I’m a perfectionist.

Hettie: Not with the details. No, no, no, no, you’re not. But you have some of the pine in there, that’s why family is so important to you ’cause that’s what pines are about, my important people. So yes, you’re probably a contra boxwood.

John: How much of this is, um, circumstantial? In other words, how, how often do the circumstances dictate what part of my personality comes out?

Hettie: I don’t believe that circumstances dictate it. I, but I do believe it reveals what is in that innate design. It depends on who you are with. If there is already a rose bush in the house, then you may not show your rose bush side at home. Maybe your parents really discipline you to be more boxwood at home and it doesn’t come out at school ’cause you don’t need to show it there as much. It depends on the, the parenting-

Jim: The environment’s going to, uh, probably intensify a certain response, but it’s already there.

Hettie: It’s already there.

Jim: That’s your point. And I, again, I loved it. If you missed it at the top of the program, we talked about Peter and Paul and how the Lord dealt with them out of their own personality. I, that is one of the great takeaways I’ve heard today, is just even in scripture, you can see how the Lord dealt with the personalities around them and effectively communicated and challenged them in a way that spoke to their heart. And that’s what we’re getting at when it comes to parents and children, how to identify what their basic combinations are and then speak to their heart in that way. And it’s great to see how the Lord did that. Who is the pine tree character in scripture?

Hettie: Abraham is definitely one, so is, uh, Jesus’ mother, Mary. You know that Mary didn’t speak a lot. She kept things in her heart and thought about them and mulled them over. And she was never a doer, she was this facilitator.

Jim: Yeah. I could see that the confidence she had, that things were unfolding just as God designed them.

Hettie: Yeah.

Jim: You can feel that in her character. That’s a good point.

Hettie: And we hear that when she hears God’s call on her life, she says, let it be with me as God wills. I’m, I’m your servant. And that’s that willingness we see so beautifully in the pine. And Abraham is that pine too and we see the relationship. He has this close friendship with God, God shares His secrets with, with Abraham because of that gentle heart and that closeness in relationship.

Jim: Hettie, we’re down to the end here of a wonderful two-day program. So thank you for being with us. The, um, question I wanna ask you at the very end here is focusing on our primary mission as parents. And it really is to help grow our children into, uh, that growing relationship with Jesus Christ, ’cause He’s gonna do that work in them. Our work will be imperfect.

Hettie: Yes.

Jim: Um, and sometimes counterproductive to what the Holy Spirit is aiming to do. And we get that because we don’t have a clear view all the time and that’s just part of being human. But how can we shepherd and guide those four types in their relationship with God in an effective way? Just run through those types.

Hettie: When we know our rose bush is wired to lead, we need to make sure that they are subjected to God’s authority, and they practice on us. So we should not apologize for being, uh, the parent because we want them to submit to God one day as they lead and also to have empathy to listen to others. And that is where our energy will go. Otherwise we will have dictators instead of Godly leaders.

Jim: Yeah, that’s the rose bush.

Hettie: Exactly.

Jim: How about the palm?

Hettie: The palm tree is going to take people with them wherever they are going. So we need to make sure that they are leading to a place worth going.

Jim: Oh, that’s good.

Hettie: So morally is where we’re gonna be doing our work and not always through preaching, but a lot through prayer, they learn from experience. So we are often gonna stand by and see how they go off like a prodigal son sometimes, hit their head against the wall, come back. It’s not always easy in the later years because they don’t always think ahead, but we’re gonna do a lot of prayer and they have beautiful hearts and a beautiful ability to inspire. And you’re gonna pray that that’ll go in the right-

Jim: Right. And as you said, stay in relationship with all your kids types obviously, but that one particularly means that. So boxwood?

Hettie: Um, the boxwood child is a child who’s going to be the one who makes sure we all stay on the straight and narrow.

Jim: Right.

Hettie: And that’s gonna be uncomfortable for us every now and again, ’cause they will point out our hypocrisy for us and we are not fair.

Jim: Especially for moms and dads.

Hettie: Yes, for sure. And, but we’re gonna teach them God’s grace. We’re gonna teach them that God decided that the season of the law be over one day, and that grace will rule. And when they can embrace that together with their love of justice, they may make a beautiful difference in the world.

Jim: That’s fantastic. And then finally the pine tree, how to, uh, move them toward God in a closer way. How do we do that as a parent?

Hettie: We do that through a focus on relationship because they go where relationship is important and they will be allergic to religion. They will be allergic to falsehood. So we will walk with them in reality and in authenticity. And they will be the ones who facilitate peace, harmony, and keep the body of Christ together. That’s what they do.

John: What a great conversation we’ve had with Hettie Brittz these past couple of episodes, talking about her book, Growing Kids of Character: Nurturing Your Child’s Potential, Purpose and Passion.

Jim: John, this has been so insightful and instructive for parents, and it highlights what we’re trying to do every day here at Focus on the Family, equip moms and dads with the tools you need to do a better job with your child, to raise healthy families that love the Lord, that’s the goal. I believe Hettie’s book is a great resource for you and I can’t recommend it enough. Make a pledge of any amount to Focus and we’ll say thank you by sending you a copy. Not only will you strengthen and support other families this year, but you’ll also get this wonderful book as a resource. And if not for you, maybe pass it along to a friend or neighbor. Focus on the Family is listener supported, which means we depend on you to help provide the fuel, uh, that we need to produce broadcasts like this one, offer resources like Hettie’s book, provide counseling and so much more. So please consider a pledge or a one-time gift if that’s all you can afford, and we really appreciate your generosity.

John: Our number is 800-232-6459, 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, or donate online and get your copy of Growing Kids with Character at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Let me also recommend our seven traits of effective parenting assessment, which can help you identify, uh, some strengths in your role as a mom or a dad. And also maybe an area you can grow in so you can be more effective as a parent with your kids. We’ll link over to that seven traits of effective parenting from the website. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again, help you and your family thrive in Christ.