Focus on the Family

Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Serving My Country, Loving My Neighbor

Serving My Country, Loving My Neighbor

Pastor John Murphy, a U.S. Army veteran, discusses the struggles he experienced after being severely injured as an infantryman and medically discharged from the military. He describes how God changed his heart toward Muslims, leading him to plant a church that shares God's love with them as well as veterans.


Jim Daly: Hi everyone, this is Jim Daly. I’m travelling today, recording a new broadcast for Focus on the Family, but I wanted to get to you a message, by telephone at least, to let you know about a positive, important development on the Federal Adoption Tax Credit. I talked about this topic on the radio earlier in the week that the Adoption Tax Credit was not included in the Tax Reform Bill and how important this small tax credit is to families adopting orphans. I asked you to call members of the U.S. House and Senate, urging them to restore the Adoption Tax Credit, and I’m thrilled to tell you that you have been heard!

The Congress has now put the Tax Credit back into the bill and I want to say thank you to all of you who phoned and all of you who prayed. And also, I want to thank the Committee Chairman Brady for being willing to listen to everyone’s concerns. There were many other Congressmen and women and Senators who were in agreement with us that we needed to restore this helpful Tax Credit to encourage people to adopt.

So thank you, on behalf of Focus on the Family and the many families and orphans we advocate for together through the ministry here. God bless you guys!


John Murphy: I remember thinking in that moment– and this will just let you know where my identity was at the time. In that moment, my only thought – it wasn’t my wife, my family. It was, I just got back from a deployment where I could have died a hero, and I’m about to die here – out here on this training jump.

Jim: Practice jump.

John M.: Yeah.

End of Excerpt

John Fuller: That’s Pastor John Murphy, and he’s our guest today on Focus on the Family. Your host is Focus president and author Jim Daly. And I’m John Fuller.

Jim: John, today, we’re going to hear John’s story. And it is quite a story. Uh, it is a testimony of what God has done in this man’s life. He has served our country so valiantly and, you know, done so much to follow Christ – now pastoring, as we mentioned. The story involves his return to faith, what God has taught him through all that, his desire to serve our country through the military. And given tomorrow is Veterans Day, we felt this would honor our country and our Lord to hear from a man who has fought for this country, who has dedicated his life to the Lord and is now pastoring. And it’s going to be good.

John F.: Yeah. And we – this is our thank you gift to all of those men and women who are in the armed services. John is a former airborne infantryman in the U.S. Army and is pastoring at Veritas Church in Fayetteville, North Carolina. You can find out more about him and get a CD or download of our conversation at


Jim: All right. Hey, John, welcome to Focus.

John M.: Yeah, it’s good to be here. It’s a privilege.

Jim: It is so good to see you. You got such a great smile.

John M.: Thank you.

Jim: Thank you. And a great beard…

John M.: Ah, there we go.

Jim: …By the way.


Jim: John Murphy, you can’t get any more Irish than that.

John M.: That’s right. That’s right.

Jim: Let’s move into the story…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Uh, with your service in the military. You were deployed in Afghanistan, right?

John M.: Mmhm.

Jim: First of all, given tomorrow is Veterans Day…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …For those that didn’t serve in the military, what is that like – you know, being deployed, the fear of it, the…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Exhilaration of it? I mean, you’re a young man going into battle.

John M.: Yeah. Well, there certainly is fear, um, for everyone. I think even the people who say – it’s the ones who aren’t afraid that are a little bit worrisome. So there is fear. But again, there is this profound sense of duty. And for me, it was that I had just gotten married two months before this. And this was…

Jim: Oh, before deployment.

John M.: Yeah, and this was a quick deployment. I think we found out for sure that we were going, like, Sunday night. And we’re gone that week. Um, so it was hard on our family, but I was ready to go. I really wanted to get in the fight. I – the way that I referred to it – because a lot of people don’t understand that mentality. Why do you want go. And then the hard thing is a lot of vets miss war. So for me, it was a – the best way that I can relate it is it would be like practicing football every day of your life and never actually playing a game. So you just wondered, do I have what it takes when it gets stressful, and when it’s real, it’s not practice anymore? And so it was – yeah, I was ready to go. And it was a honor and a privilege to go.

Jim: Was there any, um, kind of those ‘aha’ experiences being there?

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: You know, it was harder than you thought.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: It was not as hard as you thought – personal experiences that, you know, really change your perspective on life.

John M.: Not while I was there. There certainly were coming back. While I was there, I think– I was very good at compartmentalizing, uh, which…

Jim: Which men are typically good at.

John M.: They – we are, which makes…

Jim: Ask any wife.

John M.: Made me a good soldier and…

Jim: Right.

John M.: …Not so great as a husband – need to learn how to bring the emotions out of those boxes. But I just, I just remember going into what I would call a zone. It was just a – our pace of mission while we were over there was fairly high. And so there wasn’t a lot of time to think. It was the downtime that was awful ‘cause then you did have time to think and reflect and…

Jim: Yeah.

John M.: …Things.

Jim: So, uh, you had an accident. Um, here, you’re wanting – your desire’s to be this, you know, gung-ho soldier…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Fight for country, be in it…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Check your, uh, identity as a man…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …See if you really have what it takes, all that stuff. And then an accident occurs. What happened?

John M.: Yeah. In January 2006, we were on just a routine training jump out at Fort Bragg and had a, uh – had a malfunction with my parachute, came out, supposed – long story short, it’s supposed to open. It didn’t open. I had what’s called a cigarette roll, which is where the chute will come out, but it won’t deploy.

Jim: Yeah.

John M.: And, um, I remember thinking in that moment – and this will just let you know where my identity was at the time. In that moment, my only thought – it wasn’t my wife, my family. It was, I just got back from a deployment where I could have died a hero, and I’m about to die here – out here on this training jump.

Jim: On a practice jump.

John M.: Yeah. And, um, pulled my reserve chute, had problems with that. But thatopened enough that I’m here with you today talking…

Jim: Right. But you hit hard.

John M.: Yeah. Yeah, hit hard, um, went unconscious, woke up, and – I think just in shock. I didn’t – I knew it wasn’t good. Um, but I carried my chute back to the rally point. I just…

John F.: You got up…

John M.: Yeah.

John F.: …After your chute really didn’t open…

John F.: Yeah, there was…

John F.: …And walked back?

John M.: Yeah, there’s – you know, shock takes over and adrenaline. And so I just – I knew I was hurt. I just didn’t know how bad and walked back. And then it was when I got back, at that point, I was like, OK, it’s, I think, worse than I thought.

Jim: And what – you know, everybody’s thinking, what was it? What was it?

John M.: Yeah, because people saw it. So the guy who came over and found me was like, are you OK? Are you sure? Because they saw me burn in, which is what we call it. And so yeah, that was kind of the beginning of the end of the military career for me.

Jim: And it was a broken back.

John M.: Yeah. Yeah…

Jim: I mean…

John M.: …Which we found out later…

Jim: Yeah, it took a while…

John M.: …(Unintelligible).

Jim: …Some diagnosis and – but you couldn’t – you couldn’t remain in the military. You couldn’t function in…

John M.: No.

Jim: …In that…

John M.: No, and…

Jim: …Role.

John M.: …I wanted to, and I just – um, I couldn’t. It was, uh – it was bad.

Jim: What was that like, uh…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …In that time after being discharged…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …That you – you know, this is what you wanted to be.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: So now you’re in this low point. What are you doing? I mean, what…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Is life like in that time?

John M.: Yeah. Uh, it was earth-shattering, for sure – um, hardest year of my life – the year we got out – uh, the hardest year of our marriage by far. So to take a young married couple with a – I’m Irish, so I’m prone to be hardheaded by…

Jim: Wait a minute.

John M.: …Genealogy.


Jim: I’m a Daly here, so…

Jim: You’re indicting all of us in this (unintelligible).

John M.: No, I know. I know.


John M.: So I’m a little bit stubborn by nature. And so it was difficult. In my life, I had always been able to just work hard enough to make whatever I wanted happen. And this was the first time that that didn’t work. And so that year, was unemployed, was working hard to get an education and be able to do a different job. But it was just – I – the Lord began a process of really ripping away anything I had my identity in. So…

Jim: What – yeah, I was going to ask you where God was in this picture…

John M.: Yeah, I…

Jim: …Where you’re feeling so low?

John M.: We still were just – you know, we went to church together. But I was angry with the Lord. I knew what I wanted to do, and I was really angry that he would allow that to happen. In the midst of all this, I’m unemployed. I’m watching my wife go work 12 hours a day, which was crushing, because not only was my career gone, but the identity of just being able to provide for your family as a man was, uh, gone. We had had a son. Um, so found out two weeks after the injury that my wife was pregnant, and so that was difficult, as well. So we’re living in a 700-square-foot basement apartment. And, um, during that time, I found out that the team that I was with – uh, they had redeployed to Iraq and just had a a hard deployment. And the team that I was on experienced fairly heavy casualties. And, um, that was again – that was just rock bottom for me.

Jim: That threw you into depression.

John M.: It did. I was already depressed.

Jim: What was happening then, I mean…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Emotionally – just the identity of being part of that group?

John M.: Yeah, I felt like I should have been there…

Jim: Like a guilt.

John M.: …In not a – not a that I would have been able to stop it, but I wanted to die with them. And so in my marriage, there was a unique dynamic because my thought was I should have been there. I should have died. And my wife’s understandable thought was, wow, you could have been there. And God used this injury to keep you away from it, which made me even more angry. So we were just ships in the night missing each other. And I didn’t know how to communicate. I didn’t really know exactly what I was feeling. And so I was fairly addicted to pain medication at the time. And it was just – it was bad. It wasn’t ideal.

Jim: So how do you climb out of this dark place?

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: I mean, you’ve got depression going. You’ve got painkillers you’re trying to use to…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Take care of the back pain. You got difficulties with your wife. You got a little…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Boy who’s needing daddy, and you’re not able to provide.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: There are people, John, listening right now…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …That are living in that. Their circumstances may not be military related, but they haven’t worked…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …In a long time. They’ve lost their identity of being the husband, being the father.

John M.: Yeah, it’s hard.

Jim: Yeah, what…

John M.: There’s, uh…

Jim: …What are you going through?

John M.: There’s no – believe me, I tried to find them. Like I said, I’ve always been able to work hard enough. There’s no five steps to get out of this. You know, there was no just – I was not going to be able to gut through this. I couldn’t admit that. We started going to a local church up in Michigan where we were living at the time, really to appease my father, who kept saying, hey, you ought to try this church. Try this church. So we went, and that was the beginning of the Lord turning my life around, our marriage. I heard the Gospel talked about in the present tense for the first time in my life. So I had ears to hear. So I’m…

Jim: Right.

John M.: …Not saying that my parents didn’t speak about it. I don’t – I’m not saying it was their failure or the church I grew up in’s failure. It was the Spirit opened my ears to hear it. And so I just – I grew up thinking what Jesus did got me on the team. And I needed to work hard to stay on the team. And, um, that wasn’t working during this time because I had all kinds of wickedness going on in my heart and coming out. And, um, they just talked about Jesus a lot. And I remember thinking, I’m going to show them that they’re not as forgiving as they think they are. So I’m just going to start to let out what’s going on in my head. And so I’d just, in little relationships say, you know, hey, you know, when I walk down the street, um, I think about hurting people.

What’s Jesus say about that? And what blew me away was they didn’t try to understand it. They didn’t try – because they couldn’t. And they were very honest about that. They just talked a lot about Jesus and His grace and how I wasn’t too far gone. And, um, that being – I would love to say that it was an overnight thing, and it certainly wasn’t. Um, it was, uh – my eyes just continued to be open to the radical nature of Jesus’ grace and how much I needed the gospel, what Jesus had done for me that day, not just the day that I first believed it.

Jim: That’s true for each one of us.

John M.: Yeah, absolutely.

Jim: But you had – understandably, you had an hatred…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …For people from the Middle East.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: And you’re living in Michigan. Uh, you’re seeing people walk the streets that come from the Middle East. Describe that for us.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: And then let’s get into how God began to help you, uh, sort that out.

John M.: Yeah. So it was really difficult. I think one of the things that certainly wasn’t talked about when I was in – it’s being talked about a little bit more – is, um, guys are coming back, certainly with PTSD. But there’s also this – as a result of some of the things we saw and were a part of, uh, there’s a deep-seated racism towards those who are Middle Easterners, towards those – not with everyone, certainly, but among a fair amount of us. And I came back with that. And when the Lord started to turn my life around, that wasn’t turning. Um, that was a deep, dark secret that I didn’t want to let out because that was a – how do I go tell people that this entire people group, um, I have a hatred for? And…

Jim: Well…

John M.: …I didn’t know what to do about it.

Jim: Yeah, John, I mean, I love the honesty of that. You know…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Our country is so politically correct…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …That we can’t be honest and talk about these things…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Which actually brings us to a healthier place eventually.

John M.: Absolutely.

Jim: I mean, that’s kind of like bringing things into the light so the Lord can deal with it…

John M.: Yeah…

Jim: …Right?

John M.: …They lose their power.

Jim: So I appreciate that. There are people listening that are going to say, what’s the problem with that?

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: I mean, this is our enemy.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: Naturally, you’re going to have a hatred. You’re fighting them…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …In hand-to-hand combat. You’re shooting at each other, throwing grenades at each other, killing each other. That’s normal, John.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: It’s not that you were unhealthy. You were right where I thought you would be.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: Then you’ve got, you would say, the more mature spiritually one saying…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …It’s good that God’s dealing with that…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …In your heart. But describe – talk to both of these camps. And…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: And talk to me. Let’s say I’m there, too, when I watch the news.

John M.: Yeah, absolutely.

Jim: I’m kind of with you going there’s just something vile about…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …What these people believe and…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …You know, then you generalize that to everyone.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: So help that person who was thinking the way you were thinking.

John M.: Yeah. Well, I think it’s a – first of all, I’ll say, I think it’s a good and a right and a Godly thing to desire justice. Um, I – and I think we – there’s these polarizations. And we think, well, we can’t love and forgive them and want justice at the same time. And I just think that’s how God’s wired us.

Jim: Wow.

John M.: So…

Jim: Think of that. That’s really critical…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …The way you said that. A lot of people – binary people…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Black and white thinkers…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Don’t understand what you just said. Those are two inconsistent things…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …That cannot be held in static at the…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Same time. But you’re saying that’s how God…

John M.: Yeah, God’s a god of…

Jim: Because that’s who God is.

John M.: …Love and justice. And so He desires justice. And so I think it’s OK for us to look at the brutality of ISIS and what’s going on over there and to really crave justice and to cry out “how long, Oh Lord” and so to want justice to happen. But to take that and to say for an entire people group, there’s going to be this hatred and this fear. That’s what our – the media in a lot of ways is – is stirring up this fear of an entire people group. And for me, that’s what was there until I – I think again I realized that God came for me when I was an enemy, not when I was morally neutral. Romans 5 says that while I was an enemy at the right time, Christ died for me. Second Corinthians 5 – I’ve been reconciled to God. My relationship to God has been restored while I was an enemy. And I just remember thinking one day, how can I not have the same desire? What if God would have looked at me that way and said, no, meet me halfway? You’ve got to get yourself kind of together before.

And I just – and again, I’d love to say that it was an overnight thing. But it was a OK, I want to want to love them. And then ultimately, I really think where we should be as followers of Jesus is to want justice to be done and to know God’s a God of justice and so to know justice will be done. And ultimately, the penalty for their actions are either going to fall on their shoulders or they’re going to come to Christ. And it’s going to fall on the shoulders of Christ. And so I think the desire that’s happened to me that I’m praying happens in all of us is that we can look even at ISIS and say, we want justice to be done. And ultimately, we want to see them come to Christ and that justice to be poured out on the shoulders of Jesus. That’s a hard thing. That’s a hard thing. It’s a lot easier to say that than to really desire that.

Jim: The Lord calls you to start a church.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: I mean, obviously, you’re coming through this time. He’s dealing with this racism that you’ve talked about openly. Um, why a church?

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: What did He say to you specifically?

John M.: Yeah, um, I remember just – I remember being in Michigan and hearing a pastor, a good friend, Steve Sommerlot. He’s preaching. I – Steve, I love you, man, but I don’t remember what you’re preaching about.


Jim: Sorry, Steve.

John F.: That’s because you heard the Lord over Steve.

John M.: Yeah, but he – he – I just remember him saying, is what you’re living for worth Christ dying for? And, um, I – something happened to me in that moment. And I wasn’t sure what. But I grabbed my wife, and we walked out of the church at that point because I said, we got to talk. And she was worried because she knows again, I’m still messing with identity stuff. I care way too much about what people think of me to leave in the middle of a sermon. So I just told her, I think the Lord might want us in vocational ministry – don’t know what that looks like. So I submitted that to the elders at this church and just said, hey, I don’t want to be somebody who just says, hey, I’m supposed to do this, and I’m not listening to anybody else. And so I told them, I want to know what you guys think of it. And they started to test that. And I started to immediately just think of Fayetteville – think of, you know…

Jim: In North Carolina.

John M.: …These guys who are going through – yeah, near Fort Bragg – these guys who are going through the same thing that I’d gone through, was continuing to go through and my realization that it’s only the gospel of Jesus Christ that has an answer for all those things. And He’s given us the church. And I just realized in the church, these two things that I had lost when I got out of the military, a mission. There’s just such a clear sense of mission. And when I lost it, it – uh, when I got the military, it was gone.

Jim: Yeah.

John M.: And then a brotherhood – I realized in the local church, there’s that. Second Corinthians 5 – we’ve been restored, reconciled to God to be reconcilers, to be ambassadors for Jesus. And that plays out in the local church. So I just was like, boy, I think I want to do this, don’t know what that looks like. And so that started a process of seven years before the Lord actually had us down their planting.

John F.: And He not only told you what to do, He said, I want you by one of the biggest military installations in the country.

John M.: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: Now, that was for two purposes you identified. One – you know, one is to, uh, minister to the soldiers…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Give them some perspective. Sixty percent of your congregants are military…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …I think I heard off mic. And then also to reach out to the Muslim community.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: Speak to both of those. And how’s that working? And what are you doing practically?

John M.: Yeah, so our prayer really was as – as the Lord took me through this process of – of, um, growing to say, OK, I want to see these people reached with the Gospel. And so it went from a hatred to an acceptance to a – ending up down in Texas, where the – the pastor who discipled me in ministry was a, Iranian-born, former-Muslim named Afshin Ziafat, which is just God and His providence and kindness had me down there. And, um – and then out planting, our hope and desire is that there would be guys, men and women who get out of the military and who end up back in these places where they were deployed, where they know the culture. A lot of them know the language – and to see them back there on a very different mission. And so we took the first of what we hope are many trips a couple of months ago to Iraq and Turkey to encourage house church leaders over there and took a guy from the church with us, who’s a former Green Beret. And he’s actually moved in his family over to northern Iraq sometime next year for…

Jim: Oh, my goodness.

John M.: …For the long haul.

Jim: I mean, think of that.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: People, we need to be praying…

John M.: Absolutely.

Jim: …For these families that are doing this.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: There is a lot of ministry going on in the Middle East now, isn’t there, John?

John M.: Yeah, there is. God is – God is at work. And I think one of the most encouraging ways that I just had no clue is the brutality of ISIS is causing a lot of doubt among Muslims. And I didn’t know this until we were over there and seeing Muslims say well, if this is what it means to be a – a Muslim – it’s just creating this kind of doubt – maybe that’s not – maybe that’s not what I am. And as they’re being met by Christians at refugee camps and Christians in these different cities as ISIS has pushed people out, as they’re being met by the infidel, there is such an openness to the Gospel there. We were sitting in homes of Muslims while we were over there who are – the hospitality that these people show is just incredible. And so I think a lot of us feel this fear of an entire people group. And when I was over there – yeah, there was just incredible hospitality, this real openness to – they really care about hearing – we got to share the Gospel with a lot of folks and met folks who, um – I met at least 10 different people who came to Christ through reading a bible, had never met a Christian, somehow got their hands on a Bible or had a dream, where, you know…

Jim: Very common.

John M.: …An angel or someone said hey, go to this city and go into this building, and there will be a person there. And so it’s just really stirred up even more faith in me that says, I – I love the church where we’re at. And I want to us to be a part of training and equipping people to go overseas.

John F.: Hmm.

Jim: Yeah, John, we’re wrapping up right now. But I think again, that application to all of us – we all have different biases.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: They may have even grown into hatred for – you know, for a people group or for your ex-spouse…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …Or, you know, everything in between. It can be, uh, whatever the circumstance – um, that advice to the person who’s struggling. I mean, they’re probably even right now talking to us…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …You know, right at the radio, just saying – driving down the road – I can’t believe this guy. How could you ever love that kind of person?

John M.: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: Speak to their heart.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: What is Luke 6 actually getting at…

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: …When he says, love your enemies?

John M.: Yeah

Jim: I mean, it’s not very vague.

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: Love your enemies, but it’s really hard to do in the flesh.

John M.: Yeah, it is. Yeah, it’s a lot easier said than done. It’s a lot easier to read it on a paper than it is to see it play out practically. The first thing I’d say is, you’re not too far gone for Jesus. Jesus isn’t surprised by your failure. He’s not surprised by where you find yourself. He’s not surprised by the hatred you may feel. That’s not the thing that’s keeping you from Jesus. That’s the thing that makes you qualified to come to Jesus, right? It’s our heart – it’s our brokenness. It’s our – the fact that we don’t have it all together and Jesus wants to meet you in the midst of that. And so I’d just say, you’re not too far gone. That’s a lie from the enemy.

The enemy wants you running away and hiding. The other thing I would say is you were not created to walk through this on your own. So don’t feel like you have to just do this on your own. Um, we were created by God, who exists in community – Father, Son, Spirit – to walk in communities. So find – if you’re not a part of a local church, find a local church where you can walk through this with other people because it’s messy. It’s not perfect. There’s no straight line to walk through all of this. And Jesus is there with you in the midst of it.

John, this has been so good. The…

John M.: Yeah, thanks for having me. It’s been great.

Jim: Yeah, former airborne infantryman and now pastor and Gospel-provider (laughter), leading men and women in different ways. Your church there, Veritas, in North Carolina. What a – what a great story.

And, you know, we want you to share this. If this has touched your life, get a copy of the CD. Get a copy ofComing Home: An Invitation To Join God’s Family. Maybe you’re not in the place you need to be where you could actually love your enemy. We have counselors who can help you through that, whatever that might mean for you in your context. You may not be a soldier, uh, in that way. But you are a soldier of the Lord.

John M.: Absolutely.

Jim: And are you healthy? Are you in the right spot? And I’m telling you fighting from the flesh is not going to do it.

John M.: That’s right.

Jim: You’ve got to fight in the spirit. And it’s a far different thing. So get ahold of us today and ask for eitherComing Homethe PDF download booklet or a copy of the CD. And share it with a friend.

John F.: Mmhm, yeah, and that, uh, online booklet,Coming Homedescribes what it means to walk with Christ. And – and you can only release that hatred with His power. Thousands – tens of thousands have read that. It’s made a life-changing effect on them. You’ll find that and the CD or a download or the mobile app so you can pull this up again at Or call us if you need to talk to somebody. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459 –

Jim: John, one last question – it just came to me – for that person that’s struggling with how to get over their hatred, again, whatever it might be. What can they do today, that one step that might be the step to set them on a better path?

John M.: Yeah.

Jim: When they think of that person or that people group or those people, what can they do to say, OK, maybe I’m not thinking straight?

John M.: Yeah, confess to God, and then let somebody into it. Um, we – I think we mentioned earlier, sin loses its power when it’s brought into the light. And – and part of the way that we bring it into the light is talking with somebody else about it. So don’t – it’s OK. You aren’t going to find somebody who’s going to perfectly understand all of it. But that was life changing for me when I let people in to what’s really going on in my heart. And I get it. It’s got to be somebody you have to trust. But you just – just don’t carry that on your own.

Jim: Boy, that’s good. And I didn’t say it, John, but on behalf of Veterans Day tomorrow, again, thank you for serving the country and all that you and your wife have done to help us.

John M.: Privilege and an honor. It really was.


John F.: And our thanks once again to Pastor John Murphy for joining us today. And, uh, by the way, the CD of this broadcast, we’ll send that to you when you make a generous donation of any amount to support the work here at Focus on the Family.

We’re hoping that you have a great weekend, observe Veterans Day and, uh, then join us again on Monday. We’ll have Dr. Todd Cartmell with us. And he’ll help us remember to – even in the midst of our kids’ misbehavior – look for the positive.


Dr. Todd Cartmell: So, it really comes to looking for any choice that kid makes that is in that positive direction. And when you’re really looking, there are way more than you think.

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