Preview:
Dannah Gresh: And that’s what we’re doing in our culture right now. We’re having a shame conversation instead of a sin conversation. We’re saying the shame is what’s made us unwell. God’s word says it’s actually the sin that has made us unwell.
End of Preview
John Fuller: Well, that’s an insight from Dannah Gresh, and she joins us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly to talk about the positives and some of the negatives of the purity culture. I’m John Fuller. And we’re talking about some pretty adult themes here that aren’t going to be appropriate for younger children. So please, uh, we suggest you get your kids settled elsewhere before you listen.
Jim Daly: You know, John, one of the most difficult conversations, although it should be talked about more, is physical intimacy, and what’s a biblical perspective on that? How do we train up our young people so they have a healthy view of it? We are body, soul, and spirit, and so we’ve got to communicate that to our kids.
John: Mm.
Jim: And it is, you know, it’s a pull. Your teens, your 20s. There are things going on in your body that are pushing you toward physical intimacy.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But of course, as Christians, we want that in the context, and we as Christian parents want that in the context of marriage, of course. You know the good news? God’s a God of grace as well.
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jim: And his love for us, uh, is healing and ever-present. And when mistakes happen, he is there for us to embrace us to love us and to allow us to continue to grow in him. That’s what’s so beautiful.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: So it’s not about being perfect, but it is about that desire to please the Lord. And it is a great desire to enter into marriage that way.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And, uh, today we’re gonna hit this really, you know, touchy subject and talk frankly about it.
John: Yeah. Yeah. And Dannah Gresh is the founder of True Girl. Uh, she’s a bestselling author and, uh, has recently written a book that forms the foundation for our conversation. It’s called And the Bride Wore White. And you can learn more about Dannah and about, uh, this really excellent resource at our website, and that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Dannah, welcome back to Focus on the Family. It’s always good to have you here.
Dannah: Oh, I’m so glad to-
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: … be here with you today.
Jim: It’s so f- fun, typically. This can be a little bit of a heavy topic. And you know, right in my mind from the get-go here, it’s all the disclaimers that you gotta think about-
Dannah: Mm.
Jim: … ’cause somebody will be offended about something that’s said.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And again, the spirit and the heart of the discussion is really to give people a perspective on physical intimacy, God’s design for it. Uh, whether you’re that teenager, and we have teens listening-
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … from time to time-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … and we have a lot of 20-somethings listening too, uh, that are single. So what is that right way to go? And, uh, again, so many people will have different perspectives. We understand that. Let’s get one of the things out of the way right away, and that is we have plenty of material at Focus on the Family to speak to boys about this subject-
Dannah: Mm.
Jim: … as well. So I don’t want you to hear, “How come they’re not talking about the responsibility of boys and fathers to train their sons?” That material is there, just come to Focus on the Family’s website. But today we’re talking to Dannah about girls. And-
Dannah: And she’s a girl. (laughs)
Jim: And she’s a girl. Yeah. W- e- but you’re a mom as well.
Dannah: I’m a mom.
Jim: So i-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … we understand all the angles.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: But today it’s about girls. So Dannah, hitting probably one of the biggest dominoes in this discussion is the purity movement-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … some of the things that have been projected within the purity movement have been probably not as helpful, maybe more harmful.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And then there are some good things. That target is a good target. It’s a biblical target to go into marriage as a virgin, uh, both for males and for females. But speak to some of that downside with that kind of legalism, if I could call it that.
Dannah: Well, yeah, here’s what’s hard. The conversation about the purity conversation right now isn’t doing what you just did, which is acknowledging there’s good and there’s bad. We gotta be very careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. And I feel like we have to understand why that’s important. So let me tell you about a letter I got.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: Two years ago, 2024, early spring, I got a letter in a silver envelope. I call it the silver letter.
Jim: Huh.
Dannah: ‘Cause this was just a trajectory-shifting moment for me. Inside was a letter from a mom whose daughter had just become a teenager, and she had some questions for me about how to talk to her daughter about sex. And the reason she had those questions is because this mom had grown up kind of at the apex of the purity movement. And sh- the letter included photocopies of a newspaper article, because on her wedding day, two different sources, media sources came out to report on this couple waiting until they were married.
I mean, you gotta think, like, can you think of a world in which this would happen today?
John: Yeah, that’s not newsy.
Dannah: No. A- I mean, this was when Miley Cyrus had a purity ring on her finger, you know, this-
John: Yeah.
Dannah: … and half of the other Disney characters, or Disney celebrities. And so she was a part of what was celebrated about that movement. Fast-forward now, her daughter’s a teenager, she goes to the youth pastor and says, “My husband and I would like to come tell our story of waiting until we were married.”
And she went on in this letter to say, “We have enjoyed a beautiful marriage. We’ve enjoyed a beautiful sex life. We’ve had a really healthy impact in our community and our culture.” And so I just thought this youth pastor was gonna be like, “Yes, I would love for you to share that.” Instead, he informed me that that teaching, that period of time in the church was very toxic.
Jim: Huh.
Dannah: And she said, “I was dumbfounded. I was confused, because good things came out of it in my life. And I’m just writing to you to say, ‘Am I gonna mess my daughter up if I teach her what I learned during that time period? And do you still believe what you taught then?'”
Jim: Hmm.
Dannah: And I’m telling you, that’ll stop you in your tracks-
John: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … to do some research. So I’ve, for about two years now, I’ve been looking at the good and the bad, because there are some of each. I, I think I’m a part of the good fruit of the purity movement, even though I was discontent with it.
Jim: Uh-huh.
Dannah: You know, I looked, I was a youth leader at the time, and I looked around and I was like, “I love that the church is talking about sex.” That’s probably the best thing that happened, right?
Jim: Right.
Dannah: The church is finally talking about sex. And that was good, because the people that know the creator and the designer of sex and gender should be the ones talking about it the most. Finally, we are.
However, it wasn’t a fully mature conversation, because it was really, people don’t know this, started by teenagers.
Jim: Huh.
Dannah: There’s 53 teenagers in a basement in Nashville that look around and they see the AIDS crisis terrifying parents, terrifying medical experts. The headlines are, are terrifying, and they say, “Well, what if we just did what this Bible tells us to do and we waited?”
So 53 kids sign a True Love Waits pledge. They design it, they th- so right away your leaders probably don’t have the experience to lead well, right?
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: Because they’re teenagers.
Jim: They have good hearts, good-
Dannah: They have-
Jim: … intent.
Dannah: Oh, and they’re going to the word of God.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: One year later, 200,000 kids are in Washington DC signing the same pledge. This is a freight train.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: There’s n-
Jim: A movement.
Dannah: … there’s no stopping it.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: I think the sh- the leaders shepherded it as well as they could’ve, considering you’re dealing with teenagers and you’re dealing with movement, right? So some people got hurt, and you use the word legalism.
I think there were pockets of the purity movement where there was legalism, and that did create a lot of hurt, a lot of pain, and we’ve gotta acknowledge that.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: And we have been guilty of that, not just in how we teach, how the church teaches sexual integrity, but in everything. You know, because rules make us feel safe, and Jesus pulls us back and says, “You’re never, you’re never gonna obey the rules without my love.”
Jim: Yeah. And-
John: Mm.
Jim: … you know, three core areas of life, uh, to broaden this for just a second. My observation is, and, you know, we can say it, there’s many Christian leaders, pastors that have fallen.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And it’s typically three things, and it’s right there in scripture. Pride is an issue, money-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … and sex.
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And we have to be in tune with the Spirit to say, “Okay, what’s your weakness?”
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: You probably have one, and then, “What are you gonna do to build the right kind of protection so that you don’t fall into that temptation,” right?
Dannah: Yeah. Right.
Jim: Let me put it in this way. This is, I think, really interesting, and I’ve mentioned this before, but talking to a Catholic priest, you know, he said the image of God’s … Lucifer wanted that for the angels, and-
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … God chose to put it into human beings.
Dannah: Yes.
Jim: His very image, and he created us male and female. And the plan was for the two to become one, which is the very image of God walking this earth.
Dannah: That’s right.
Jim: And he fights it tooth and nail.
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Think of how marriage has been on the ropes, because of the enemy’s assault on human sexuality.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: I mean, look at the movements that … Y- there’s so many. Sexual orientation, transgender. I mean, it is like a spiritual assault on-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … God’s design.
John: Mm.
Dannah: It is. And i- and it’s an assault on the love of God, too. So first, you- you’re referring to Genesis 1 where it says, “In the image of God, he created them. Male and female, he created them.” And then it goes on to say, “The two will become one flesh.” And, um, that one is the word echad, and the only other place we see that used is in the prayer, the, the Jewish prayer, “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one,” Echad.
And so when they come together, they look even more uniquely like God, and e- one of the mind-blowing things for me, that really made me say, “Okay, as a wife, as a mom, as a minister of the gospel, as a great commission minister of the gospel,” which all of us are, “this topic matters.” Because in Genesis 4:1, it says, “Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth.”
And that word there is yada. Adam, yada, with his wife Eve. And i- if you grew up with Seinfeld, you know-
Jim: (laughs)
Dannah: … yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah, turns out this word is not so boring after all, right?
Jim: Right.
Dannah: This is a sacred, profound, pleasure-filled word. And I thought, “Wow, this is very different.” I- i- the word means to know, to be known, to be deeply respected, transcends the physical that the world gets fixated on.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: Okay? The world is fixated on how we connect to one another physically, and God’s word talks about how we’re connecting emotionally-
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: … and spiritually, knowing each other. But here’s what’s mind-blowing. It’s only used that word a handful of times to talk about a husband and a wife knowing each other. It’s used predominantly about how we can know God.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: Be still and know, yada, that I am God. You’re, you’re touching on something very sacred here, Jim. Maleness and femaleness, marriage and sex, they’re pictures. They’re pictures of some of the most sacred truths that we hold dear.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: And the intimacy that we can have with God, marriage is just pointing to that. And if we don’t rise up to protect it, then the things that we hold most dear in our faith are marginalized and erased. That’s why this conversation matters so very much.
Jim: Right. And why there’s tension about it-
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … even in the church.
John: Mm.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: Going back to that pastor, this is a toxic subject.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: It shouldn’t be.
Dannah: Right.
John: Yeah. Yeah. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guest today is Dannah Gresh. We’re talking about her book And the Bride Wore White. And, uh, some of the concepts, the big concepts in this book, uh, you’ll want to get a copy so you can do a deep dive, uh, in what Dannah has written. We’ve got the book at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Dannah, let me, uh, explore with you your life. I mean-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … you put it in the book, and you’ve talked about it. Y- your goal was that to go into marriage pure.
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And, uh, that didn’t happen. S- talk to that specifically, that situation, explain it, and then speak to other women who were listening that had a similar experience.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: There was a desire, but it was tripped up.
Dannah: Yeah. I was a Christian teenager in a Christian high school, in a Christian home, in a Christian youth group. I was actively involved in teaching Sunday school in my ch- I loved Jesus. I mean-
Jim: Doing all the right things.
Dannah: … I loved the Lord. Um, and you know, I heard the “thou shalt not” speeches, which is what we had, really, before the purity conversation. It go- it got more robust after the purity conversation sort of started, which was good. It was more than just thou shalt not. It was just the rules when I was a teenager.
Jim: Right.
Dannah: And so I never went through the process of thinking through why I believed these rules were good. And got in a Christian dating relationship, like many of us, and many people still today, and hadn’t made any decisions. I hadn’t been decisive about what I believed and why I believed it.
Jim: Uh-huh.
Dannah: And so, you know, I ended up giving the gift I desperately wanted to give to my husband on my wedding night. I gave it away to … I, I was 15, I was a baby.
Jim: Mm.
Dannah: You know? I, I look back and I, I see 15-year-olds today and I’m like, oh.
Jim: Did you, let me ask you this question, did you feel that way at that age? Like this is something, a gift? ‘Cause it sounds very adult to think of it in that way.
Dannah: That’s the thing. I didn’t.
Jim: Right. So wh- in that context, for younger girls listening-
Dannah: Mm.
Jim: … right now, or moms that are gonna have a chat-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … tonight, how do you, looking at your younger self, what-
Dannah: Mm.
Jim: … conversation would’ve helped you. What would be the tone and the substance of that-
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … at 15 that would’ve maybe steered you a little differently?
Dannah: Well, even when I was nine, 10, 11, 12-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … setting the stage of how sacred this is-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … being very clear about why, that it’s a picture of the gospel. These are, there’s no junior salvation, there’s no junior Christian, there’s no junior great commission, there’s no junior Holy Spirit, there’s you’re a believer or you’re not. Of course, we talk to nine-year-olds differently than we talk to 19-year-olds or 29-year-olds.
Jim: Right, maturity levels are different.
Dannah: The maturity levels are different, but I really believe it’s important that we have these mature conversations. ‘Cause otherwise the world is discipling our children what they will believe-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … on the topic of sex-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … and gender. And our silence becomes a megaphone for that instruction. So I think just starting early period would’ve been important. But I think one of the things that I really fought to keep in this rewrite of And the Bride Wore White is being decisive. Every single one of us in life, there’s research on this, we decide, or we slide into behavior.
Jim: Mm.
Dannah: There’s really no middle ground.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: If we have decided on January 1st, “I’m gonna eat healthier this year,” and we write it down and we set some goals, the chances are, we’re gonna have a better shot at it.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: But if you’re midway through the year and you’re eating all the carbs and all the sweets like normal, it may be because you didn’t pause and make a decision.
The same is true of our sexual appetites. And there’s long-term research that says, people that in their teen years said, “This is the kind of person I’d like to marry. This is, these are some things I’d like to achieve so that I’m emotionally and maturity-wise ready before I start dating.” Those people, long-term, 20, 30 years down the road, they’re in much healthier relationships.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: Versus people who just don’t think about it, which I just didn’t think about it. And I ended up being sexually active, and it wasn’t what I wanted, but I slid into it.
Jim: Right, right. And from there, I mean, at 15, that is young.
Dannah: That is very young.
Jim: Um, then you have shame-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … and guilt and-
Dannah: Yep.
Jim: … fear.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And, “What have I done?” And now even at that young age, now you’re trying to negotiate with God.
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: “I’m so sorry for what I did,” so you feel that shame and guilt.
Dannah: Every day.
Jim: … and then you’re trying to still be on the outside living a life that looks good and healthy, your mom and dad going, “Oh, isn’t she doing well?” And now you have this secret. How did you manage-
Dannah: Well, that wasn’t-
Jim: … that?
Dannah: … quite how my story looked. My story looked like my mom and dad going, “What happened to her? Why is she different?”
Jim: ‘Cause you changed.
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: I became depressed. Um-
Jim: Wow.
Dannah: … I became more withdrawn, and that is one of the things we see in teenage girls who are sexually active, that there is often a change in their mental and emotional wellness.
Jim: Let me ask you, before you keep going there, just that physiological, emotional, mental-
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … response should say something-
Dannah: Yes.
Jim: … about what’s going on in the heart.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: The fact that that would be there.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: Um, you know, the naysayers, probably those that are anti-God, are gonna say, “That’s because of the shame you put on people.” But i-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … i- there certainly would be a part of that, but there’s something deeper going on.
Dannah: I felt shame. And let me, let’s pause on that word, because that’s one of those words that’s become very twisted that Satan has used. Shame invites us to say, “I did something wrong.” Not, “I am something wrong,” but I chose something that wasn’t in my best interest or the best interest of my community, and is there forgiveness for that?
Jesus says yes. And then He says, the Word says, in James 5:16, “Confess your sins one to another, and then you will be healed.”
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: It doesn’t say, “Confess your shame one to another.” And that’s what we’re doing in our culture right now. We’re having a shame conversation-
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: … instead of a sin conversation. We’re saying the shame is what’s made us unwell. God’s word says it’s actually the sin that has made us unwell. And when I confess my sin to you and you say, uh, there’s great, uh, sociological research on this, and you say, “That was wrong, but I still love you-”
Jim: Oh yeah.
Dannah: … that’s what crushes shame.
Jim: Which, again, is a mirror of God’s-
Dannah: Yes.
Jim: … treatment toward us.
Dannah: Yes.
Jim: That’s what i- i- he is-
Dannah: Yes.
Jim: … in us.
Dannah: Yes.
Jim: And when we do that to each other, it’s a taste of God’s character.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: That’s, it’s all connected.
Dannah: That’s right.
Jim: Which is amazing. You know, uh, something I wanna make sure that we’re clear on is, many times women are in a situation of abuse.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: That could be emotional, it can be physical, could be a boyfriend or a husband.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And we need to recognize that, that abusive situations are absolutely wrong.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And you need to find safety, you need to get to a place, especially if you have children in the home as well, but-
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … you need to get outta that situation and seek help.
Dannah: Absolutely. I- I’ve been sounding this alarm since the year 2000, tell someone.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: When you don’t feel safe, when you feel guilty, when you feel shame, when you’re confused, tell someone. A lotta times the confusion is telling you this isn’t a safe relationship. And you don’t really even know it until years down the road; until you can kind of get some separation from it, or at least months down the road.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: So if you’re feeling that way, tell someone today. Don’t wait, text someone right now.
Jim: Yeah. And to your point, it’ll feel like, “Am I really experiencing that?”
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: I mean, some women are gonna know, because it’s that obvious, but others, you’re in a gray zone emotionally, and you’re not sure-
Dannah: Right.
Jim: … ask and talk to somebody.
Dannah: That’s right.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Um, you can call us here at Focus on the Family and we’re available, uh, to help you through that decision tree of where you’re at.
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But i- it is critical. And with that, th- as you said, that shame and that guilt can keep you trapped in there. Like was it-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … my fault? Such a common thing-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: …for a woman to say to herself.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: “Did I cause this?”
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: How do you coach a woman to manage that kind of false guilt?
Dannah: Well, first, I look her in the eye and I simply say, “It was not your fault.” Uh, y- you know, for someone who hasn’t been in an abusive situation, they can’t understand how much those words need to be heard. Um, but then I think the shame that comes along with that follows the same path of, you know, “I need to tell you what happened to me-”
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … “and I hear what happened to you-”
John: Yeah.
Dannah: … and I say, “It wasn’t your fault, and I still love you.”
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: And the shame really doesn’t have a lot of power when th- you start to enter in … You know, there’s research that, uh, men or women on the battlefield, that come off the battlefield, and in the first few days they say, “This is what I saw, this is what I experienced,” They say it out loud, they get the empathic witness, that person that says, “That had to be horrible. I’m so sorry that happened to you. You’re gonna be okay,” there’s power in that. That’s why God’s word tells us Christianity is not a solo sport. It’s a communal activity-
Jim: Mm.
Dannah: … whereby we are the hands and the feet, the voice of Jesus Christ to one another.
John: Mm.
Jim: Dannah, I don’t wanna end with, I guess a, a pit in my stomach.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: I want to give hope. And we’re gonna come back for day two and keep this conversation going, if you’re willing.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And I just want to give that hope here, that-
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … pearl of hope to the woman listening, no matter how old she is, she could be 16, 15, she could be 25, 35, 55.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: But she’s carried that guilt like, you know, “I- it was my fault.” Speak to that bondage. What the enemy is trying to do, what the world is trying to do, to free you from those spiritual-
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … binds, that you don’t need to be accountable to God. I mean, the culture is screaming that.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: Just be yourself. You’re in control-
Dannah: Just be you.
Jim: … of your own body.
Dannah: That’s right.
Jim: I mean, even to the point of, “Kill that child-”
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … “that has been created.”
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: Speak to that in terms of how do you turn all that devastation, like John 10:10 says, “The thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy.” Women are under the microscope in this regard.
Dannah: Yes.
Jim: The enemy is having a heyday-
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … with women. Now we gotta say, “Where are the men?” But speak to that woman with that heavy burden. How does she set herself free?
Dannah: Well, I walked in shame for about 10 years. Of course, in my case, it wasn’t something that was done to me. It was my choice to be sexually active, but I, I think the pathway is very similar in terms of crushing that shame and receiving the grace of Jesus. It’s going to Him and saying, “What is true? What is true? I’m confused here.” I felt shame for 10 years. For 10 years, I’ve, I’ve awakened and said, “Lord, am I really forgiven?”
Jim: Hm.
Dannah: “If I’m forgiven, why do I feel this way?” And, um, it was faulty thinking in my heart, because I was believing lies. And Jesus said, um, “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” So I had to say, “Lord, what’s the truth about the word virgin?” ‘Cause i- it’s a word that hurts me when I hear it.
Jim: Mm.
Dannah: “What’s the truth about the word purity?” Because I hear it and all I think is, “I am not.”
Jim: Mm.
Dannah: And he took me through a gentle process of looking those words in the eye, and they were not more powerful than his love.
Jim: Mm.
Dannah: So go to Him. Go to Him first. Don’t go to, please don’t go to TikTok.
Jim: Yeah. (laughs)
Dannah: They’re not gonna tell you the truth about these words.
Jim: Reddit. (laughs)
Dannah: Don’t go to Re- please don’t go to Reddit.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: They are not gonna tell you the truth about these words. They’re aren’t gonna tell you to hold these words. They are gonna tell th- you these words are trauma for you-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … and they always will be. Here’s what I’ve learned about trauma. It’s real. I’ve felt it. I’ve known it in my life. I have experienced the physiological symptoms of trauma.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: The sleeplessness, the … All of it. And yes, trauma is real, and it hurts. But also, I have decided that my triggers are an invitation from the Holy Spirit-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … to be healed.
Jim: Well, working through that kinda hurt can be so hard, but we don’t want anyone to have to do it alone. Uh, God creates us for relationship, perhaps especially for those low times. Our team of caring Christian counselors is available to pray with you and give you biblical insight into some first steps to healing with a free initial consultation.
So sign up on our website and take advantage of that. We want you to. And I’d recommend you get a copy of Dannah’s book, And the Bride Wore White: Seven Truths to Live in Sexual Integrity, no matter your past. She shares hope, wisdom, and courage for every woman who desires sexual wholeness. And we have copies for you here at Focus on the Family. When you make a monthly pledge of any amount, we’ll send you a copy as our way of thanking you for your support.
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John: Yeah. Donate today and get your copy of Dannah Gresh’s book when you call 800, the letter A and the word family, or we’ve got the details at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
Day Two:
Dannah Gresh: The standard is not virginity. The standard is not, don’t do this, don’t do that. The standard is holiness.
John Fuller: Well, that’s Dannah Gresh and she’s with us again today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly to encourage you to live with sexual integrity. I’m John Fuller and, uh, as you can probably tell, this is going to be a conversation that isn’t appropriate for children. Uh, have them elsewhere or use your headphones or earbuds.
Jim Daly: I like that. Thanks for that instruction, John.
John: (laughs).
Jim: You know, I so appreciated the conversation last time with Dannah, and if you missed it, you know, go to the website or get the app for your phone and you’ll have access to the whole library of programs. But it’s, it was meaty. It had so much in it and we’re going to continue the discussion today in this area of sexuality, the purity movement. We covered some of that last time and what we need to convey to our kids, how we need to live our lives in such a way that our children see a healthy spiritual attitude towards sexuality. And you say that at the right time.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And, you know, then it gets more serious about the teen years and you need to talk more adult-like to those teens and get them ready for the challenges they’re going to face. That’s the spirit in which we’re gonna address this today.
Uh, I have talked to people in Christian radio, pastors, et cetera. It’s kinda like this is the look, if you can’t see me or listening on the audio, it’s a, a cringe of covering your ears. And that’s not the attitude we should have. God created intimacy for marriage and it should be enjoyed and celebrated and lifted up as a great thing. And I love that attitude and that’s how I share it with my boys. But we need to talk about things.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Um, when we are silent, the world fills the vacuum and this is not a place where you want the world to fill your child’s heart.
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And Dannah brought such great biblical perspective and wisdom. We’re so glad to have her back today. Uh, she’s the founder of True Girl. She’s a writer, a speaker, a podcaster, and she’s taken a bestselling book and rewritten it and updated it. It’s called And the Bride Wore White. And, uh, we’ve got copies of that here. Uh, get yours, uh, to address this topic in your family. Uh, we have it here at the ministry and you’ll find it at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Dannah, welcome back. Great day yesterday. Thanks for being with us then and now.
Dannah: I’m so grateful.
Jim: Yeah. It, this is the topic nobody wants (laughs) to touch. I mean, it’s-
Dannah: Including, including me, I might add. Yeah,
Jim: You are reluctant.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: I mean, it’s so interesting, but it is good. It’s so healthy. In the church, we need to win back what is healthy. You know, last time I wanted to mention this, but we were talking, you were talking about the physiology-
Dannah: Mm.
Jim: … involved in physical intimacy.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And you think about it, you know, I’m learning so much with Dr. Henry Cloud and other psychologists, Christians and psychiatrists. Man, the word of God is exploding right now with scientific discovery.
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And, you know, even the bonding features that God put in us, particularly women, that when you have that physical intimacy with your husband or somebody else, that bonding hormone is going.
Dannah: Yep.
Jim: And there’s a purpose in that.
Dannah: That’s right.
Jim: I mean, that’s not evolution, everybody.
Dannah: No.
Jim: There’s a purpose that God-
Dannah: It’s designed.
Jim: … put that into us-
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … so that we would be one flesh committed to each other for life-
Dannah: Right.
Jim: … for better or for worse. And God even made it so plain that He chemically created that in our brain science.
Dannah: Yeah. I would say that’s why it’s … Uh, well, let me first say that my husband bought me a necklace that was the shape of the chemical makeup of the neurochemical oxytocin, which is what creates that bonding-
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: … because I so geek out on this, that God actually created us for that. Um, but here’s something really fascinating. There’s a study that revealed that we don’t, women in particular, don’t seem to make that oxytocin quite as freely when they’re not inside of a committed relationship.
Jim: Interesting.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: So we’re shortchanging ourselves-
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: … when we’re treating sex casually.
Jim: And again, I just think it’s a, it’s a wonderful discovery that they’re making-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … where spiritual truth out of scripture-
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … is being found in science.
Dannah: We’re starting to understand God’s word.
Jim: Yeah. I mean, it’s-
Dannah: We’re like, “Oh, He had it right after all.”
Jim: Right.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And it shouldn’t shock us.
Dannah: No.
Jim: But, but the more they discover, the more it points to-
Dannah: It’s beautiful.
Jim: … to God’s word, which is great. Let’s talk about the seven truths about sexual integrity. You know, I’ve not used that term. First of all, I like that term, sexual integrity.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: It’s such a modern, beautiful phrase.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: You know, that it’s positioned and formed in the right direction.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: That’s what it speaks to me. Integrity of a building, integrity of a bridge.
Dannah: Yep.
Jim: It means it’s built for a purpose and it’s doing its purpose. Sexual integrity in that way that we’re built for a purpose like we’ve talked about and we’re doing that correctly.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And boy, will the world come against that? Oh my gosh.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: They wanna rip down every bit of modesty or desire to marry, uh, as a virgin, et cetera.
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: They just wanna tear that apart.
Dannah: Well, isn’t it funny that every sexual choice is an applauded and appropriate sexual choice except for the biblical sexual choice? That one’s ridiculed. Well, wait, if all these other sexual choices are okay, why isn’t this one okay?
Jim: Another indication of spiritual warfare.
Dannah: (Laughs) And confusion.
Jim: That’s interesting.
Dannah: Yeah. Yeah.
Jim: Yeah. It’s true. Yeah. You can talk about all of these and it’s lauded and then-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … you know, talk about a Christian perspective, oh my gosh.
Dannah: Right.
Jim: How archaic.
Dannah: You bring up one of the big cultural lies we need to prepare our kids for is that God’s word is outdated or His rules about sex are old fashioned.
Jim: Correct.
Dannah: The fact is they were never in style.
Jim: (laughs). Yeah. Right.
Dannah: Paul writes on the backdrop of a Roman and Greek culture that was far more promiscuous than ours. Um, pedophilia was very normalized-
Jim: Correct.
Dannah: … during that time. And yet He says the standard is not virginity. The standard is not, don’t do this, don’t do that. The standard is holiness.
Jim: Yeah, that’s the aim.
Dannah: Holiness. Christians live set apart. They live different and they live according to God’s good design.
Jim: Boom. There it is. Let’s get to the seven truths. Uh, you speak to the first one. Sexual integrity reflects the heart of Jesus.
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Let me list them and then we’ll go back. Can we do that?
Dannah: Sure.
Jim: Okay. So that was one. Sexual integrity doesn’t slide, it decides. You mentioned that one.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: Sexual integrity walks in dignity.
Dannah: Mm.
Jim: All of these, you, you gotta stop and think about it. We’re gonna come back so don’t panic. Um, sexual integrity respects boundaries, sexual integrity requires healthy communication. These are all like amen comments. Sexual integrity banks on family wisdom.
Dannah: Mm.
Jim: Sexual integrity pursues discipleship. So that, that is such a meaty list. So let’s go back to the first one, sexual integrity reflects the heart of Jesus. How?
Dannah: This is huge. And I don’t know if you know, but Focus on the Family is a big part of my healing story.
Jim: No, that is beautiful.
Dannah: So let me tell you how that happened. I, I mentioned yesterday how I would wake up feeling shame-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … from my sexual past and the word purity was this pain word for me because I was a youth leader during this purity conversation that was happening in the ’90s and early 2000s, and that word hurt me when I heard it. And all I could think is “I am not pure”. And it felt like a battering ram-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … To my heart. And of course, as you said yesterday, the world is gonna tell you that’s because the Christians have set up all these rules and guidelines of behavior that are just not attainable and that’s why you feel that way. But that, I took that word to the Lord and I said, “Jesus, what is the truth about this word?” And what I found is that I was never pure.
Jim: (laughs) Yeah, there we go.
Dannah: Ironically, the truth for our lies is not always the opposite.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: And Psalm 51:5 says, “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the moment my mother conceived me.”
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: And I had to come to a place where I realized that and then I look in the Word and I see who is pure? Jesus. Jesus is pure. And because He is pure and because He has saved me and because when the Father looks at me, He sees the account or record of Jesus, because of that I can walk in purity and integrity. It changed everything for me.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: It flipped everything for me. And I’m driving down the highway listening to God counsel my heart on, “Dannah, you were never pure.”
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: “I purify you. I … And the reason that you behave in a pure manner is so that you can reflect me inside of you.” I don’t know if this is making any sense to anybody listening today, but for me it was like eureka.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: I was able to take the truth of who I was to Jesus and also stand in the boldness of I am pure because of Christ. So I’m driving down the highway considering this, my six-month-old baby girl in the backseat of my car-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … and Focus on the Family comes on. What are they talking about? Talking to your daughter about sex. Do you think this was God timed-
John: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … God orchestrated? And I hear Dr. Dobson’s voice say, “What’s the number one question on that teenage girl’s mind when she’s talking to her mom about sex?” And the woman said, I have no idea who this woman was, she said the number one question on that teenage girl’s mind is, “Mom, did you wait?”
Jim: Hmm.
Dannah: And this juxtaposition of the purity of Christ and the impur- I felt impure because I had behaved in an impure way. That’s why I felt it.
Jim: Right.
Dannah: And, but this call was like, “Wait, my baby girl, I’m gonna have to deal with this impurity and this pain in my life to disciple her well.”
Jim: Right.
Dannah: I pull to the side of the road, I allow 10 years of grief to engulf me. I drive straight home, I tell my husband, “I know you think you married the driven snow.”
Jim: (laughs).
Dannah: “Let me confess to you.” And, and he-
Jim: That was the first time he had heard it.
Dannah: That was the first time.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: Five years of marriage.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: And I, um, there’s less of that today because the church is talking about sex more.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: And I’m so thankful for that.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: And I encourage transparency in the dating relationship so that you’re not walking into this five years into marriage. But He held me and it felt like the arms of Jesus. He said, “I don’t think I need to say it, but I think you need to hear it. You are forgiven.”
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: And it felt like the voice of God. And that allowed me to begin to walk in the purity of Christ.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: So purity, sexual integrity is not about us behaving well.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: It’s about the record of Jesus and we reflect that record.
Jim: Yeah. You know, uh, as you’re speaking, I’m thinking of the prodigal son.
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Y- you could put that in the context of a prodigal daughter.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And this theme fits that story. But the irony there is the Lord very specifically, through the actions of the Father, is showing that enthusiasm for the younger brother coming home after he squandered his father’s treasure on party life-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … if I could call it that. And the older brother was really mad because he was the rule follower.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And he was jealous. And, you know, the very end of the parable, the younger brother’s inside at the feast and the older brother’s outside looking in. Which many theologians say that, that’s the story of the feast of heaven-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … that the religious person doesn’t make it in.
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And you think about that, you’re going, wow. But also, Rosaria Butterfield, who was on the broadcast, if you’ve never heard her on the Focus program, I’d encourage you to, again, get the app because those are powerful programs. The first time I interviewed her, she was a former lesbian teacher from Syracuse University.
Dannah: Activist.
Jim: Activist. Used to write articles against Focus on the Family and Promise Keepers, and very dogmatic ideologically. And she said, you know, she befriended a pastor who invited her to his home for dinner with his wife and over two and a half years they led her to the Lord.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And she said, “It hit me that I was living my verb, lesbian, not living my noun made in His image.”
Dannah: Mm.
Jim: And you said it the same way, “We’re believing who we are is what we do.”
Dannah: Yes.
Jim: Especially in sin.
Dannah: Right.
Jim: And she just so perfectly … She said when I caught that-
Dannah: Yep.
Jim: … in her context of English literature, she said, “It changed my life.”
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: That moment was it. No more appetite for same sex attraction. Nothing. She ended up married-
Dannah: Sovereign deliverance, yeah.
Jim: … a pastor.
Dannah: She … And not everybody has the sovereign deliverance like she did and, and, you know, there’s sometimes we have to work out our salvation-
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: … with fear and trembling.
Jim: Of course.
Dannah: But, but there is … Jesus expunges the record.
Jim: Yeah.
John: Mm. Dannah Gresh is our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and, uh, we’re covering some of the great content in this, uh, weighty but really, uh, wonderful resource called And the Bride Wore White. And we’ll encourage you to get a copy of that book and find other helpful resources on this topic. We have a lot, uh, there at our website and that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Dannah, it’s kind of obvious to everybody. We’re not gonna get through all seven here-
Dannah: (laughs).
Jim: … but we’re gonna, we’re gonna fly to try to get as many as possible. You covered the second one, uh, before we started, which was sexual integrity doesn’t slide, it decides.
Dannah: Right.
Jim: So let’s leave that to itself, go to number three here. The third truth is that sexual integrity walks in dignity.
Dannah: Yes. Yeah.
Jim: Um, what does it mean to walk in dignity? I think that’s lost on the church even.
Dannah: S- this is such an important word. So dignity is inherent worth or value, like that it shows value.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: Every human life has dignity. Period. We have dignity because we are image bearers of the God of the universe.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: And that doesn’t change based on how we show up in life-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … ever. But the call of scripture is that we would reflect that dignity. The call of scripture is that we would, uh, show up with the way that we talk, the things that we look at, the things we hear, the way that we dress in a way that says we are image bearers of God. And I, I think where this gets really complicated for moms today is in the area of teaching our daughters how to dress appropriately and with dignity.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: Because the world is out there saying, “You can’t talk to your daughter about how to dress, you’re going to body shame her.” And so we have to have a really rich conversation about this. We can’t just turn … There’s like three places, maybe four in scripture that addresses the word modesty. So it’s not a robust, you know-
Jim: Theology.
Dannah: … foundation, right, that we have. But what is robust is the theology of clothing.
Jim: Hmm.
Dannah: You go back from Genesis to Revelation, you, you know, the book that I just wrote And the Bride Wore White, I titled it that because I didn’t feel like wearing white on my wedding day. I didn’t feel worthy.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: I wa- didn’t have an awareness of my dignity. But when I looked at the Book of Revelation and the bride of the lamb is wearing white, the sinful, broken bride of the lamb is wearing white, I was like, “Ah, through Christ, I get to wear white on my wedding day.”
Jim: Right.
Dannah: You know? So go back though to, to Genesis. Um, I think this is really important and this is where I pull our rights and responsibility as mothers to teach our daughters to dress. And you know what, you guys have to handle the boys, but we’re moms, we have to handle the girls, right? Adam and Eve show up, they’re, what are they? They’re ashamed, they’re hiding. God comes and says, “Where are you?” So He’s relational first. He doesn’t discipline them. He says, “Where are you? I miss you.” And then what does He do? He takes, we see the first bloodshed. An animal dies. The first shedding of blood for sin happens right there in Genesis 3. And God puts on them garments of fur, comforting garments of fur. He comforts them in their sin. Now the Bible calls these, the Hebrew word is a word that’s similar to tunic, and it’s believed that that tunic or the garment that is specifically mentioned is a garment of honor. It’s sort of like, um, Joseph’s coat of many colors. It was a tunic that said, “There’s special dignity here-”
Jim: Mm.
Dannah: “… in this boy.”
Jim: Yeah, I’ve never heard that.
Dannah: And so what God is doing is He is taking … The sin has stripped their dignity and God is saying, “I am putting these garments on you to remind you of your dignity.” The way we dress matters. Now, can we teach our daughters the appropriate way to dress in a way that body shames them? Yes, and we have to be very careful that we’re not saying your body is bad. We’re just saying some clothing doesn’t reflect the dignity and worth of you as a daughter of God.
Jim: Dannah, there always is that appropriate criticism that, uh, you know, the male side of this equation should have some responsibility. You know, just because someone may not dress totally appropriately-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … shouldn’t give, uh, a green light to a, a boy or a man mistreating that woman. So we need to make that disclaimer known, obviously.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: You need to, boys, men need to restrain and, you know, behave themselves in that context.
Dannah: Yeah. I, I’ve taught, um, frequently on the fact that a man’s behavior is a man’s responsibility, period.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: That the way that a girl shows up or dresses has nothing to do with giving him a right to behave badly. At the same time, I wanna be very careful to say that because that thinking is out there, let’s not be silent about teaching our daughters the beauty of reflecting. You know, the way we dress isn’t about not being sexual. I wanna be very clear about that. The way I dress is about nothing the way that I am wearing today distracts from people seeing Jesus in me.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: That’s the point.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: Um, if there is any sin in immodesty, it’s not about our bodies, it’s about saying, “I want more attention than Jesus. I want more attention than God.” That’s what I’m-
Jim: Ooh, that’s a, woo, that’s a good point.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: That’s a strong one though.
Dannah: That’s what I’m concerned about.
Jim: Yeah. Wow, that hits right at the core of the culture.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: ‘Cause it is all about look at me.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: Whether you’re a boy or a girl.
Dannah: Right.
Jim: (laughs).
Dannah: Exactly.
Jim: You know, so that’s a good, good thought. The next truth is about boundaries and you share in the book a story about your husband, Bob, who set a boundary with you. What, what happened?
Dannah: Yeah. You know, when Bob and I dated, we had a very beautiful, appropriate relationship. Sexual integrity marked our dating years.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: And one of the reasons for that is first of all, I had learned my lesson. I knew the pain of sliding into bad behaviors. And so I had boundaries at that point that were important to me. And thankfully so did Bob and one day on a date he just kissed me on the nose and said, “That’s about as far as I want our physical contact to go.” And it wasn’t a big conversation, but we were both communicating to each other that we cared about what scripture said about our sexual behavior.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: And I think that was a trajectory setting moment for us and I think it matters. We need to teach our daughters and our sons to have conversations that reflect our boundaries.
John: Yeah. Did that give you a sense of safety, if I can put it that way?
Dannah: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Especially since the relationship before had been such a demanding physical relationship. For him to communicate to me that that is not how this relationship was gonna work felt really safe.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: That’s good. That’s really good. The fifth truth is that sexual integrity requires healthy communication. Let me just say a good marriage requires (laughs)-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … healthy communication. Uh, why is communication important when it comes to sexual integrity specifically?
Dannah: Well, one thing is when you’re talking and having a rich conversation, you’re probably not having awkward moments of physical, “Ugh, what do we do here,” right?
Jim: (laughs). A good distraction, you’re saying.
Dannah: So it’s a good distraction.
Jim: (laughs).
Dannah: Um, here’s the challenge. Today, a lot of teenagers are doing most of that communication through a device.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: And so when they get with each other physically, they’re struggling with how to communicate. So I think it’s really helpful to just sit them down and say, you know, “What are some questions you can ask to get to know this person better? Uh, what are your dreams? When did you come to know the Lord? Uh, what do you love most about your family? What, what’s hardest about being in your family?” You know, giving them a list of questions-
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: … helps them really have a healthy conversation.
Jim: Okay. The sixth truth, I think we’re gonna make it, the sixth truth (laughs) is about embracing family wisdom.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: Now all the parents went, “yes and amen.”
John: (laughs).
Dannah: (laughs).
Jim: Come for the wisdom of the family. What do you mean by this?
Dannah: Well-
Jim: (laughs).
Dannah: … I’ve always felt that, um, this is really important. As I started working with girls in the year 2000, traveling across the country doing retreats, I saw that girls who had a healthy relationship with their parents tended to make healthier relationships in their dating life. And conversely, girls who especially didn’t have a relationship with their dad, maybe through divorce-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … or just awkward-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … body changing, that they were struggling more.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: So, uh, there’s some research that indicates that that’s true, that there’s a trend there. And so what is very clear to me is that mom and dad speaking into this matters. And if you survey girls and boys and say, “Who do you wanna hear sexual advice from,” they’re not gonna be, “I’m excited to hear my mom and dad talk about sex.” They’re not … Their eyes are gonna roll into the back of their head. But when you get down to the root of it, they’re gonna say, “The person I trust most on this topic is mom and dad.”
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: So it’s really important. And let me say this, we do live in a culture that’s trying to remove parental rights in so many spaces-
Jim: Yep.
Dannah: … especially related to the topic of sex and gender. So this is very counter-cultural, and I want to infuse the teenage girls that read this book with a different message.
Jim: Yeah.
Dannah: The message that, you know, it’s not your school counselor that needs to hear when you’re struggling with something, it’s mom.
Jim: Yeah, that is good. And I think that would save a lot of heartbreak-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … along the way that we’re seeing now in court cases.
Dannah: Absolutely.
Jim: Especially in transition court cases like the-
Dannah: Exactly.
Jim: … gender dysphoria. All right the last truth in your list is that sexual integrity pursues discipleship. Give me the understanding of that.
Dannah: Yeah. Well, let’s just take pornography, for example. Um, very prevalent. Very few of our teenage kids are not seeing pornography, most of them are. And that can lead to a lifelong addiction. It did for my husband. Um, a battle that he fought and is winning, but a hard battle-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … that caused a lot of disruption in our marriage and in our life, in his heart, in his relationship with God. Um, most kids that stumble across pornography don’t know what to do with that.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: And if they’re not in some sort of accountability, they’re probably gonna do what any of us would do and fall into it deeper and deeper. So that’s just one example of where having someone to talk to other than mom and dad, and I’m encouraging them to also be talking to mom and dad, but talking to your youth pastor. Talking to a, an older, wiser college student who loves Jesus, and loves you, about my temptation on the internet or my temptation in this dating relationship, or my loneliness in being a virgin and being made fun of-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Dannah: … in college or at school. This is a really important ingredient in living a life of sexual integrity. And I, I feel like every young person needs someone older and wiser than them advising them on this topic.
Jim: That’s a, that’s a good thought. The earlier in your life you can find that kind of mentoring relationship, the healthier you’re going to be.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: Mom and dad will do that through the younger years and teen years, but-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … I think it’s really healthy. It’s something we do here at Focus for staff. You know, we encourage mentoring-
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … older staff or wiser staff with younger staff just to help them in their journey.
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: And I think it’s a, a good thing to do in every workplace-
Dannah: Yeah.
Jim: … when it’s healthy. Uh, Dannah, this has been terrific.
Dannah: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I hope you have felt the wisdom flowing out and, uh, that’s the goal here, just to give perspective and to give you encouragement as you parent. Or if you’re the girl or young woman who is in a spot where you’re feeling like something’s gotta change, now’s the day to do it. And one of the things you can do is get a copy of Dannah’s book And the Bride Wore White: Seven Truths to Live in Sexual Integrity – No Matter Your Past. The book is full of stories of healing and practical advice for women. We have copies for you here at Focus on the Family. When you make a monthly pledge of any amount, we’ll send you a copy as our way of saying thank you for your support. When you donate to Focus on the Family, you join with us in ministry. Every year we help strengthen literally hundreds of thousands of believers and non-believers in countries all over the world.
We wanna keep reaching more and more families for Christ, but we need your year-round donations to keep creating resources and offering help. So be a partner with us and if a monthly gift, uh, doesn’t work for you right now, we will also send you the book for a one-time gift of any amount.
John: Donate today when you call 800, the letter A and the word family, or online at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And next time, Senator Tim Scott shares his optimism and inspiring American stories of the Christian faith as our country celebrates 250 years.
Senator Tim Scott: And one of the goals we should have as a nation, especially for 250 more continuous years of God’s amazing grace on this nation, is we must embrace the reality that there’s only one truth-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Tim: … and it is embedded in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
