Tim Scott: And one of the goals we should have as a nation, especially for 250 more continuous years of God’s amazing grace on this nation, is we must embrace the reality that there’s only one truth. And it is embedded in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
John Fuller: That’s a bold insight from Senator Tim Scott about the Judeo-Christian values that have guided America from the beginning as a nation. The Founding Fathers set us on a path toward true north and as we celebrate 250 years, our prayer is we don’t lose our way. Well, welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: You know, John, we can’t deny the powerful role that the Christian faith has had in our founding as a nation and our development as a nation. For those that can’t see that, or don’t bother to study it, it’s self-evident. I mean, the Founding Fathers, they had a deep dependence on deity. Most were Christians and found their faith in Christ. And it is part of why they structured the government the way they did, separations of power, it’s because they knew that the heart of man was evil, and if we have power, it corrupts us. And Senator Scott has captured that great theme in his book called One Nation Always Under God, where he’s provided inspiring snapshots of men and women who lived with conviction, courage, sacrifice, helping to shape our country into what it is today. I so look forward to everybody hearing this conversation. t is good.
John: Yeah, and it includes his personal story, which is fascinating. It’s very hopeful and, uh, you had this conversation with Senator Scott, uh, for your podcast, ReFOCUS with Jim Daly. Uh, Senator Scott represents the state of South Carolina and let’s go ahead and listen on today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
Jim: Senator Scott, it is so good to have you back at Focus on the Family, even though it’s virtual, but here at ReFOCUS as well. Thanks for being with me.
Tim: Well, thank you, Jim. It’s good to be with you. I certainly love sitting next to you in, in, in wonderful Colorado Springs and, and joining time together, but as iron sharpens iron, we’ll have to do it over a distance.
Jim: You know what’s, uh, what people need to know? I remember the first time we met, I’m not sure you’ll recall this, but it was at Reagan Airport and we sat I think and had, uh, a bite to eat together along with my-
Tim: Yes.
Jim: … colleague, Tim Goeglein, who worked in the Bush administration. And I remember when you left, I just said to Tim, “That is like the greatest guy. He’s just a regular guy doing incredible things.” And it seems like to me the Lord, you have an, an anointing is how we would say it in the Christian community. It’s like the Lord’s hand has been on you since you were a child.
Tim: Well, I certainly am thankful for praying. You know, we look at, uh, the book of Timothy and we see his grandmother and his mother, Eunice and Lois. And for me, it was my grandmother, Louita and my mother, Francis who sowed seeds very early in my existence so much so that I think God always honors the prayers of those who go before us. But as a result of that, um, I have been a man, and at that point a boy, who understood the importance of church. Now, church is not being a Christian, but it is a good foundation to start from. And so around a- age of 11, I first walked down the, the aisle of the Baptist church, Morris Street Baptist Church in Charleston, and gave my life to Christ.
But it wasn’t until I was 18, seven years later, that I understood Lord and Savior. And I gotta tell you, as a guy who done- has done it fairly inconsistently for a long time, the older I get, the more I appreciate the sovereign hand of God on my life. And I was writing about that this morning, Jim, in my, uh, prayer journal that without my permission, God has done the most remarkable things-
Jim: Mm.
Tim: … that I thought impossible. God has made possible to include getting married, becoming a senator, and living my mama’s America dream. I- i- it’s amazing what God will do if you give him permission to, to really take over your life. And I keep taking it back, Jim (laughs) I tell you the truth. I keep taking it back.
Jim: That’s the problem with us. (laughs)
Tim: Oh yeah.
Jim: We keep taking it back. Hey, let me ask you a question. I, just a few-
Tim: Yeah.
Jim: … weeks ago, I was in Charleston. I haven’t spent a lot of time there, but we have a, a great donor base in that community and, and, um, we had dinner at a donor’s home. It was beautiful and we had probably about, I don’t know, 20, 25 couples there. But here’s the thing I wanna mention, and it kind of moves into the direction I wanted to take the conversation. As we were headed back out toward the airport, I saw, we went in front of, I believe, the historic building where the slave trade began.
Tim: Mm-hmm. Yes, on the street.
Jim: Yeah, I snapped a couple of pictures of it and I thought, what a monumental location. This is where, uh, the first slaves were, were sold as slaves as I understand it. And they’ve preserved the building and you can take a tour of that in Charleston. But that aims right at the core point that, um, any institution of man is imperfect. But when you look at where America has come over these last 250 years, you are evidence my friend, of a country that is improving, and you’re part of that great improvement. That the fact that minority folks can rise and be senators and be governors and be president with President Obama. I may not agree-
Tim: Yes.
Jim: … with all of the policies, but that was a proud day. I was proud of my country when we elected the first black president.
Tim: Yes.
Jim: But speak to it from your unique vantage point, my goodness.
Tim: Well, I’ll say without any question that I am, when I say I live, I’m living my mother’s America dream, in so many ways, my grandfathers as well, my, my story is a story of cotton to Congress. I mean, it starts back my youngest memories of the deep south being a segregated place where we had the KKK walking through the streets of Charleston, where my, my brother, when he was in high school, I was in the eighth grade, there was a race riot at my high school and then four years later, I’m elected to student government president. One of the things that I find to be remarkable about the story of America is that MLK, Martin Luther King Jr., got it right, that the arc of the, uh, moral universe bends towards justice.
And we are probably the poster child of justice as a nation. All across the world, people stop and wonder what makes America so unique. And how is my story, a kid born, uh, in the deep south in the 1960s, how do I become the Congress member for the city where the Civil War started? And how do I become a United States senator for the state that really helped the, in, in the, during the, the Civil War times? The answer is simple, it’s the grace of God and the evolution of the southern heart. It is on display everywhere you are willing to look, that God’s infinite wisdom is deposited in the hearts and minds of men and women.
And when we respond to His call, the most remarkable things happen. We actually look back at our Founding Fathers and we say that when they wrote these words, we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and frankly endowed by a Creator with unalienable rights. That proposition is rare on the earth, and when we live up to our highest ideal as Christians and as Americans, we find that our compass points towards true north-
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: … and we don’t become color-blind-
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: … because God did not intend that to be so. But we understand that every single human has inherent value because they come from God. And when we treat each other that way, Jim, the most remarkable thing happens. Even a guy like me, Tim Scott, gets elected to the United States Senate because-
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: … people in my community decided to judge me not on the color of my skin, but on the content of my character. That was framed through a southern experience where people, very disjointed people, from different communities, different walks of life, different complexions, different amount of melanin in your skin, so to speak, came together to help me, A, understand the value of prayer, B, understand that faith without works is dead, and C, apply God’s way instead of my way-
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: … and it humbled me after it broke me and then God rebuilt me. And that story’s available all across the country, but I, without doubt-
Jim: That’s the redemption side.
Tim: … having it happen in Charleston, South Carolina is one of the most powerful things-
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: … and to be a part of it.
Jim: Yeah, it’s so true. And I think the sooner we can get on that highway, the highway of true north, as you said, the better off we’re gonna be. Listen, I wanna cover, I know we, we got some time limitations. Some of the great stories that you captured here in your book, One Nation Always Under God, which I love that twist, by the way. But one of the-
Tim: Thank you.
Jim: … stories was Samuel Davies. And, uh-
Tim: Yes.
Jim: … let’s go to him. It’s colonial period. Who was he and what did he do?
Tim: Well, Samuel Davies was a fantastic preacher who understood the profound impact that the gospel of Jesus Christ had had in his life, was having in America and wanted to continue to see it expand. One of the reasons why I included his story in the book, One Nation Always Under God, is I wanna make sure that our reference point begins and ends with the gospel. Uh, it doesn’t begin, like we just talked about, it doesn’t begin or end with my experience in South Carolina or, or, or your experience today living in Colorado. It only starts and finishes with the gospel. And so, when we understand that we should be able to compare notes against what we’re experiencing and what the gospel says is true.
When that happens as a nation, we stay on the right course when we, uh, this is where I think we get in trouble. We’re all going to sin and fall short, that’s just a fact. That’s why we have Jesus as our Savior.
Jim: Right.
Tim: But when you start calling wrong right, I think you bring about something that is akin to the judgment that we do not wanna see. I think we have to be very, very careful not to say, “Because I did it and it felt good, it must be right.” That is wrong.
Jim: Wow.
Tim: We know the definition of right because our Founding Fathers, through the grace of God, wrote it well because it was written based on what is right. And, and that’s gonna be my consistent message as we go through the pages of the book and the chapters as well as the people. They all had to fight and struggle sometimes with themselves, sometimes with the world they were living in to get it right. And that’s why I think it’s helpful for America today so that we can struggle with ourselves, struggle with what’s around us so that we get it right and we bring glory and honor to the Lord and preserve this nation.
Jim: Yeah, which is so true. Dorothea Dix is another character-
Tim: Yes.
Jim: … that you highlighted. Tell us about her and her story.
Tim: Dorothea Dix was someone committed to those who were suffering from mental health. And she felt the burden and the responsibility to travel this country at the end of the day to look at and witness insane asylums, what they were called back in the day, mental health facilities.
Jim: Right.
Tim: And if you, if you think back through recent history, the last 50 years, 40 years or so, we’ve shuttered so many hospitals for the mentally unstable that we have done an in… a disservice.
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: We put those folks in jail as opposed to a more humane treatment through hospitals that were developed for them. Dorothea Dix in her time actually fought for the expansion and the humane treatment of those who were, uh, in facilities. She understood that because we have intrinsic value, how we treat the least of these, Matthew 25, is we will be responsible for that before our King of kings and the Lord of lords. And, and, and I love her story because it’s a story of sacrifice, it’s a story of being educated and it’s a story of taking action, something we as Americans need to always do, take a look at the most vulnerable in our society-
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: … and do the best we can for those who can’t do it for themselves.
Jim: I love that. Part of that action story of hers, she was alive during, uh, Abraham Lincoln’s presidency. The, the fascinating insight that she helped derail, uh, a potential assassination-
Tim: Uh, attempt, yes.
Jim: … of the pre… tell that story, that’s remarkable.
Tim: Yeah, no doubt, once again, here’s a woman, because you think about the time that we’re talking about too-
Jim: Right.
Tim: … by the way. Here’s a woman who is charged with a responsibility, given a gift from God, who’s able to sniff out through associates a, a plot to kill the president and she, through the help with a lot of other folks, were able to stuff it out and to help him avoid what would have been, I think, an assassination without any question.
Jim: And think about that. I mean, sh… that could have changed, would have changed-
Tim: It would have changed, yes.
Jim: … the course of history. It was, you know-
Tim: Absolutely, yeah.
Jim: … his presidency would have been shorter, maybe not even been able to sign the Emancipation Proclamation. So, man, that’s a big deal.
Tim: Powerful story. It once again reinforces an important point very much like Jeremiah 1, verse 5 tells us that before Jeremiah was in his mother’s womb, he was already called to be a prophet. Timing is so important in life and sometimes I don’t understand the good Lord’s infinite wisdom, but what I do understand is that certain people rise at the right time and it’s happened time and time again in America specifically, globally without question. Certain men and women rise at the right time and Abraham Lincoln rose at the right time and his life was preserved by Dorothea Dix and others, uh, probably more than once, by the way. I, I-
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: … I can’t imagine the number of, uh, attempts at his life. But he was able to finish the course much like MLK, uh, finishing the 13th, uh, amendment and because of that he finished his, his, his work and unfortunately, uh, he went to be with the Lord thereafter.
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: But the truth of the matter is with, without his steady hand, I’m not sure what the country would look like and how our integrity would have been protected other than, uh, President Abraham Lincoln doing what frankly, no one else could have accomplished at that time.
John: US Senator Tim Scott is our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and I hope you’re going to ask for his book, One Nation Always Under God. It’s packed with inspirational stories about great Americans. And, uh, you can hear the complete conversation with Senator Scott and our country’s struggle to find unity and truth in our founding principles when you check out Jim’s podcast, ReFOCUS with Jim Daly, and you’ll find the links at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: You know, you, you, your book obviously is filled with these great stories. I was doing something we do here at Focus, a commentary, a 90-second commentary. It’s both on secular radio stations and some Christian radio stations. But just yesterday I was voicing them and Kenny Chapman writes these scripts, he’s brilliant, and he found a couple of incredible stories. One was Keisha Thomas, if I’m remembering correctly. I think she was at a political rally in the ’80s and a, a guy with either Nazi tattoos or a Nazi t-shirt showed up and men began to beat him and kick him to the ground and were, you know, terribly beating this man.
She, a black woman, jumped on top of this guy and said, “Stop it. No one is beaten into kindness.”
Tim: Wow.
Jim: Okay, now here’s the kicker. Here’s the kicker. Years later, that Nazi guy’s son contacted her to say, “Thank you. You broke the bonds of hatred in our family.”
Tim: Wow.
Jim: Wow.
Tim: Wow.
Jim: That would fit in your book.
Tim: That would be f… listen, that’s a whole new book. Thank you very much. I love that.
Jim: But isn’t it a great story of how to, how to change attitudes, which is the bigger theme of what you’re talking about?
Tim: Absolutely.
Jim: How do we change, especially we Christians, how do we change attitudes? It’s not by-
Tim: Yes.
Jim: … belligerence. It’s not by… and you, oh my goodness, Senator Scott. You’re in the toughest job in the world. I’ve been there many times, you and I have dined together.
Tim: Yes, we have.
Jim: People are in your face all the time, uh-
Tim: Ah.
Jim: … that don’t agree with your point of view. And they are trying to make you angry. How do you deal with that?
Tim: Yes. Well, I gotta tell you, you know, one of the things, uh, thank God for the word of God and thank God for really good friends. Number one, the word of God. Ephesians 4:15 reminds me to speak the truth in love. Those two ingredients are very important, they’re both active ingredients and when we activate them, we are gonna be infinitely better off. Number two, my good friend, the former Congress member, Trey Gowdy, has told me a thousand times: it is hard to insult someone into changing their minds. And so, what I take from that is it’s my responsibility. I, I’ve been asked some very tough questions, especially as a pro-life Christian who happens to be in public office on, on “how do you allow your faith to guide you?” And, and not, not, “how do you allow your faith to guide you?” “How do you let your faith guide you?” is the question they’re asking me. I’ve been asked that question from some folks, uh, uh, from Colorado, frankly. And my answer was, you should thank God Almighty (laughs) I let my faith guide me and not just my own natural instincts.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Tim: And so, here’s the point. We are spiritual beings. You cannot force me into changing my mind, but you can woo me, or as Jesus did through the grace of God, love me into changing my mind. Not by giving me false flattery or false pretense, but by sharing the truth in a piercing, convicting, not condemning way. We see that play out over and over again in the gospel, whether it’s a woman caught in adultery, uh, the Samaritan. We see these stories, high profile stories in the gospel of Jesus Christ, where in fact, the love is present, but so is the truth. And, and I, I oftentimes look at the, I call it the Hall of Fame in Hebrews 11 and to see Rahab in the Hall of Fame just reminds me that the way He judges is not exactly how we judge here on the planet.
Jim: Right.
Tim: And so, leave room for Him to do what He does best and then follow His lead.
Jim: You know, I’ve often asked myself like being in that moment when we die, and by the way, everybody’s gonna experience this.
Tim: Yes.
Jim: You’re gonna die and you’re gonna be present in front of the Father. And I’m thinking to myself, does He say to me or do I say to Him, “I loved as best as I can, or I tried to hold people accountable as best as I can”?
Tim: Yeah.
Jim: And I just, I can never rectify that. I think the Lord’s gonna be very pleased that I exhibited love for other people, especially people that hated me because of Him.
Tim: Mm.
Jim: Right as we wrap up here are kinda the two last points I’d love for you to comment on. One is the awakenings that God uses.
Tim: Ooh.
Jim: You, you know, sometimes we as Christians, we fret. We watch the news, Senator, and we see the conflict.
Tim: Yes.
Jim: Now in that context, you’ve got a royal and fight and you gotta persuade and all that. Is there hope that God will again show an awakening for this country so more people, not just in a political context, but in a spiritual context, have an awakening. How do we get there? (laughs)
Tim: I think we are on the verge of seeing a great, uh, explosion and hopefully a revival that sweeps the country, not just in Washington, but listen, we’re seeing it frankly on college campuses, which I think is very difficult to understand and appreciate. Young people are so often, uh, the, the folks that we point to and say, “Boy, can’t wait for them to grow up and they’ll, they’ll know better and they’ll do better.” Well, the truth of the matter is, uh, on many college campuses, I’m thinking about Ohio State and their football team, they, they were literally, uh, having revival on the campus led by some of the most powerful forces on a college campus, which are football players.
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: And so, when you see that happen, you ha- happening, you know that there’s a great awakening happening around the country. We’ve also seen, uh, the fact that God is working here in D.C. I attend a Bible study where we have Republicans and Democrats actually opening the Word of God-
Jim: That’s encouraging.
Tim: … and studying the Word.
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: Now, there’s only about eight of us that come to that Bible study, but I understand there are dozens of Bible studies across D.C. where not just legislators, but their staff are, are actually involved and engaged in knowing Jesus better and then putting Him to work. Uh, the good news is I’m never gonna bring Jesus down to, to the political level. But I’m always gonna try to bring myself and my colleagues to His level.
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: And that is my, my responsibility as a Christian in public service is to show people the light. Don’t compromise by saying maybe they’re right when they’re inconsistent with the gospel of Jesus Christ, but I should be open to them telling me that there might be something that I’m doing that is inconsistent with the gospel of Jesus Christ. And then if we know it enough, we can open it and see what it really says.
Jim: Yeah.
Tim: That kind of opportunity is available and expanding here in Washington and I pray that His kingdom would come and that His will would be done here in D.C., across this country, and around the world.
Jim: Senator Scott, I mean, I couldn’t, uh, put it any better and I’m so grateful for our time together, thank you for what you-
Tim: Thank you Jim.
Jim: … represent. I mean, really, beyond our friendship, but, and who you are. I just, it inspires me to know people are there in, um, D.C. that are doing the Lord’s work and I mean that sincerely. So, God bless you, God bless your, uh, family and man, just keep on moving and if we can ever be of help, let me know. Thank you.
Tim: Well, well, thank you very much, Jim. And let me just say in closing, uh, if you haven’t gotten your copy of One Nation Always Under God, get your copy.
Jim: (laughs)
Tim: You’ll love America even a little bit more. And number two, I’ve been watching Focus on the Family for, and listening to sh… I should say listening to Focus on Family, uh, on the radio, for more than 30 years.
Jim: (laughs)
Tim: Uh, uh, I gotta tell you, I am so thankful that when that transition happened several years ago, that you were chosen by the Lord, uh, and by James to take over the helm there, you’ve done a beautiful job.
Jim: Wow.
Tim: And may the Lord our God continue to bless you in ways that go beyond your imagination according to Ephesians 3:20.
Jim: Well, that means a lot to me. Thank you so much. God bless you. God bless the Senate as you, uh, endeavor to lead. Take care.
Tim: Thank you, sir.
John: Well, Senator Tim Scott has been our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and what an encouraging conversation. Uh, Jim, that was really good and we’re providing a link to the entire discussion, uh, online for your podcast, ReFOCUS with Jim Daly.
Jim: John, I love Senator Scott’s emphasis on the Christian faith and I also appreciate him sharing about the importance of telling the truth in love. Um, you know, it feels like the, the compass of life is spinning now. Where is true north? You know, when you talk to people that don’t believe in God, don’t have a faith in Christ, you know, they’re just looking at cultural things to set that compass. And, uh, you know, Jesus himself said, “I am the way, the truth and the life.” Um, He declared it. And so, the very least, I’d encourage you, no matter where you’re at in your faith journey, if you don’t have faith in Christ, study it. You know, Lee Strobel wrote a book called Case For Christ–
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and he’s done the homework. He was trying to disprove Christ to his wife who had become a Christian. And man, if you want the evidence, this is the journalist, the atheist journalist that got it done, and he went and did all that. You can read that book, Case For Christ and better understand the evidence for Jesus’ life. And God has worked through imperfect people and imperfect institutions for 250 years now in America, including the church. It is not perfect, there are errors made and there is poor judgment and lapses and sin because we’re sinners saved by grace. But as we celebrate 250 years in America, man, the Lord can still bring, and will bring, renewal in our time if we can turn toward him.
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Let me encourage you to get a copy of Senator Scott’s compelling book, One Nation Always Under God. Uh, it’s filled with inspiring stories of men and women whose Christian faith helped shape our nation. And, uh, these stories are gonna inspire your family to have confidence in Christ and, uh, offer opportunities for conversations with your children and your grandchildren.
Jim: You know, John, let me also emphasize here, one of the things, I think, that weakens us obviously as believers is not being in the Word, not reading the Word to where the Holy Spirit can bring those things to mind when we need them. John 8:31 and 32 says, “If we abide in God’s word,” there you go, “We will know the truth and the truth will set us free.” And I see that in marriages through our Hope Restored efforts, trying to get these marriages back together, parenting crises that, uh, people call. We want you to call because we wanna help you, but so often it’s because we’re not rooted in the Word and know how to live this life in a way that’s full of God’s wisdom.
John: Yeah. Yeah. We encourage you to dive into your Bible, read it and find the difference that it makes in your life and in the lives around you. And, uh, to get that book, One Nation Always Under God from Senator Tim Scott, uh, make a donation today to support this show and, uh, this ministry, either a one-time gift of any amount, or if you can, a monthly pledge. And you can donate and request that book when you call 800, the letter A and the word family, or donate and, uh, find out more at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And on behalf of the entire team, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
