John Fuller: "I am so stupid, Dad. I just can't do this." Well, that's a comment I heard a couple of days ago from one of my children and it may be that you have kids who feel that same way. How do you respond in that moment? This is "Focus on the Family" with Focus president and author, Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller and whether your child is making A's, B's, C's or F's, you're about to discover a new way of thinking about your child's intelligence.
Jim Daly: John, I think sometimes how you respond is how you feel in the moment. (Laughing)
John: Ah, that happens, yes.
Jim: But it can be so discouraging for a child to feel like a failure and that can start them on a spiral that is not helpful. And we know they're not failure and they have great potential. And so, how do we tap that and move them in a better direction and in a godly direction?
They may not excel academically, but that often means they have other strengths. And you know, getting them through school is one chore. The concept that our guest, Dr. Kathy Koch introduced to us back in March of this year was really well-received. Kathy heads up an organization called Celebrate Kids and she's written a book called How Am I Smart? And in that book, she outlines these various types of intelligences that she's described.
John: Uh-hm, yeah, I think that was probably what grabbed so many parents who listened to that program earlier that, oh, my child is intelligent. I just don't necessarily see in what are of life yet. It was kind of an encouragement to dig in and learn your child's uniquenesses.
Now we've got that list of different intelligences posted at www.focusonthefamily.com/radio, along with details about our annual Best of CD and download set from this past year.
Jim: And John, this is one of them. This is one of the best of the best. Kathy gave us an absolutely riveting conversation and I think you'll be ready to start analyzing how you and your children are smart in just a few minutes. Here's Dr. Kathy Koch on today's "Focus on the Family."
Kathy: What's really important to understand right at the front here is, that everybody has all eight. So, we're word smart; we think with words. When we're excited, we probably talk. When we are being logic smart, we think with questions. And we love it when things make sense. When we are being picture smart, we think with our eyes and in visuals. And we might like fiction and history, because it comes alive in our mind's eyes.
When we're being music smart, we think with rhythms and melodies and we can drive people nuts with our humming and our toe-tapping. But we can also sing in tune and play musical instruments and glorify God through participating in our church orchestra.
When we're being body smart, we think with movement and touch. And we can be the classic athlete, but we can also be the dancer, the clay sculptor or the actor who can make her whole body look angry when she's really not angry at all.
Let's see; the sixth one is nature smart and when we're being nature smart, we think with patterns. And that's how we know a Bluebird isn't a Blue Jay and an elm tree isn't an oak tree. And we might appreciate the science topics related to nature and not so much the magnet unit in school.
And then the last two are fascinating. People smart and we think with other people, so we know what we know when we hear ourselves say it and we get someone to respond to it. So, that's the brainstormer and the one who loves discussion in small groups.
And the opposite of that is the self-smartperson, who thinks deeply inside of herself and knows what she knows, what she knows, what she knows and doesn't necessarily need to tell anyone.
Jim: Now with those, those last two particularly, personality, does it play in there? 'Cause--
Jim: --in some ways, that describes for me, kind of the introverted--
Jim: --nature, where--
Jim: --you're a deep thinker. You go to a party. You sit along the wall and you look at people and you're just … you get deep with one or two people.
Jim: Whereas the other person, the people-smart person is perhaps more social, more extroverted? Is that [a] fit? Or am I seeing it incorrectly?
Kathy: It's a great conclusion that most people have. And what's fascinating about it is that we could be extroverted and people smart, but we would be extroverted and self-smart. We can be introverted and people-smart and that would be me. To be honest with you, I'm an introvert, which means that I get my energy when I'm alone. It doesn't mean that I'm not good with people. I have many great friends and I have people skills people tell me. But (Laughter) as an introvert, I get my energy when I have my alone time. But I'm people smart, so I love to think with people.
If you're a self-smart person who's introverted, you really will crave quiet, peace, privacy and space. And you will need that space in order to be successful. So, the child that comes home from school, doesn't want to immediately talk about her day. She needs 10 or 15 minutes in her bedroom to recharge. And then she can handle being with people, 'cause she's been with people all day.
Kathy: And she's a self-smart person, who just wants to think her thoughts and doesn't necessarily want to tell the teacher what she's thinking.
So, we can be a good match. People and extroverted would be a good internal fit. Self-smart and introverted is a good internal fit. Because we're made in God's image and He makes us complete and He is complete, I think a lot of us have the personality of extroverted and the self-smart or the personality of introverted and the smart of being people-smart. And that allows us to navigate throughout life.
Jim: Now I was gonna ask you, because you taught elementary school--
Jim: --so in that profession, that vocation, prior to doing the work you 're doing now, did you notice this in the children? Is that when it began to kinda fit for you, that kids learn differently. They have different smart capabilities.
Kathy: Uh-hm, uh-hm. It's a great question. That was part of the impetus for me to earn my Ph.D., because I was frustrated that I had what I thought was good educational theory and it didn't always work. So, earning my Ph.D. in Educational Psychology and reading, becoming a professor and helping young people who wanted to teach children, understand the differences. And difference isn't bad. And difference isn't stupid. Different is different.
Jim: It's so true and I would think, you know, again, to think outside the box, so to speak, about how your child is intelligent and to have the idea that actually it can express itself in different ways is right out of the gate, something refreshing, because you know, we all do it as human beings. We compare.
Jim: And for our children, I think there's no greater height of comparison than with our kids. And either they're succeeding in very well planned-out school curriculum, you know or they're not. And if they're not, it doesn't necessarily mean they're stupid. And I use that word, because our kids have used it.
Jim: You know, they're struggling with their homework and they say, "I feel stupid." I mean, to hear that from your son, I say, "Okay, wait a minute. What's the problem? What aren't you grasping?" And it can come right down to those core curriculum courses, that you know, somebody's good at math--
Jim: --but they're not good at English or vice versa. Let's take a look at some of these and just dissect them. And you talk about word-smart. Describe that in a little more detail, then let's pick it apart.
Kathy: Okay. Those of us who are word-smart, we like to read, write, speak and listen. It's actually a school-smart, because what do we do all day in school? We speak, listen, read and write. So, kids who have a lot of brain cells in the word-smart part of their brain are going to find school more successful and probably an easier thing for them to accomplish.
Jim: They'll enjoy it.
Kathy: They'll enjoy it more, because they're able to be more easily successful.
Kathy: But it doesn't mean that everything comes easily to us. But it doesn't scare us to do our spelling words and to write, especially at … a non-fiction writing would be the combination of logic-smart. Fiction writing is the combination of picture-smart. None of the smarts ever work alone.
Those of us who are word-smart, we can get in trouble by talking. I'm an example of a kid who was a "Chatty-Cathy" as a child and now people pay me to talk. (Laughter) You know, it's an amazing thing. And ... and you know what, you guys? If I would've been raised, "Be quiet; be quiet; be quiet; would you go find something to do; I am so sick of your talking," I wouldn't be here today on the radio with you.
Kathy: My parents were amazing and they chose to listen to me. And when I was about 9, they enrolled me in Children's Theater. They said, "Go talk there a while."
Kathy: You know, that's a true story.
Jim: Smart though.
Kathy: Yeah, very smart, because it again, used one of my intelligences.
Kathy: They didn't know that at the time.
Jim: Well, they planted you in a garden that you could flourish in.
Kathy: Bingo, exactly, exactly. And then when I was in high school, I became a part of the forensics team and I earned ribbons giving speeches and what do I do now as a living? I give speeches. I'm an author. So, we are the ones who can either tease and gossip and name-call or edify, encourage and teach the truth.
Jim: I want to ask you about that, because you know, for me, I have a memory. It's a deep memory for me, 'cause I was a talker, as well, extroverted and I loved to talk. And I can remember as a 5-year-old, I think I obviously irritated adults around me, 'cause I would be the "Why guy." "Why's that?" "Why is this?" "What's that?"
Jim: And uh … talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And one time my mom's best friend, Penny, who has passed away, so I can say this without offending her, but I remember she looked at me. I think I was 5. I remember this so clearly and she said, "You have diarrhea of the mouth."
Jim: And it just crushed me. I thought, oh, I better stop talking--
Jim: --'cause I don't think that's really good. I wasn't mad at her. I was (Sigh)--
Jim: --all of a sudden I was like, oh, I'm doing the wrong thing.
Jim: This isn't how I should be.
Kathy: Jim, I hear that from children all the time, that there is somethin' that happens with our smarts called "paralysis," where if you are told the wrong thing in the wrong way or if you don't get to hear the thing that you're desperate to hear, that part of the brain can be paralyzed. It's really possible that for a while you stopped.
Jim: Shut down.
Kathy: You shut down and then, praise God, something or someone came along who reawakened that part of the brain of we wouldn't be here today with you on the radio.
Jim: (Chuckling) No.
Kathy: We do need to be really careful of how we respond. My dream for parents is that they would just help children develop the character qualities that are necessary, so that we use our intelligences for good and not evil.
I obviously needed to learn how to listen and give my brother a chance to speak. And I needed to know that I was teachable and could benefit from what other people had to say. It wasn't all about me.
Jim: Well, and I think another aspect of this that is intriguing to me, as you just said, with each smart type, you have the ability to use it for good--
Jim: --or to use it for evil.
Jim: As I looked at the book that you wrote, How Am I Smart?,that came out to me just how, you know, this is the tool that God puts in your hand--
Jim: --your intelligence.
Jim: And you can use it in a variety of ways. My youngest, going back to the word-smart child, it's interesting, 'cause it's kind of a blend. He is very verbal. He loves words, but I'd say his spelling scores are kind of--
Jim: --kind of slightly above average, but more like a B, not an A.
Jim: Is that typical, as well? He may not just be into learning all he should with the spelling words, but be very verbal and word-oriented?
Kathy: Exactly. In fact, I'm exactly the same way, Jim. I am certainly word-smart. I'm not a very good speller and people are sometimes surprised by that, because I've written books and I have an earned Ph.D. The reason spelling is hard for me and this might be true for your son, is I'm very logic-smart.
Kathy: And those of us who are logic-smart want things to make sense.
Kathy: We want the rules--
Jim: --like the word "knife--
Kathy: --to work.
Jim: --does not work. (Laughter)
Kathy: Knife (Laughter). Or my favorite example is--
Kathy: --the number four has a U in it and the number 14 has a U in it. But when you spell the number 40--
Kathy: --there's no U.
Kathy: And it's like, where's the U?
Jim: These are arguments that he'll make to me, so--
Jim: --this is perfect. (Laughing)
Kathy: So, it's the logic-smart. So, what we say to those kids is, you're not stupid. Spelling isn't hard because you're stupid. Spelling is hard because of the way you're smart.
Kathy: And that is so engaging for children to understand. And then what we have to help them discover is, that rules don't always work. And those are the words we memorize, because the rule isn't going to work.
Kathy: I'm also not very picture smart. It's No. 7 or 8 for me out of the eight. I have it, 'cause all of us, created by a generous God with all of these abilities, but because I'm not very picture-smart, I don't remember what the word looked like the last time I saw it.
Kathy: So, I don't remember. Like the rule double the final consonant before you add the suffix, that doesn't always work, which of course, irritates me, because I'm logic-smart. And then I can't remember the last time I saw the word. Were there two P's or was their one P? So, you put that together. And so, what do I do? I travel with the Misspeller's Dictionary.
Kathy: There is such a tool. It's a brilliant book.
Kathy: You look up the word the way you think it should be spelled and you'll find it there.
Jim: That's ama …
Kathy: Because like "knife," I would look under N--
Jim: Yeah. (Laughing)
Kathy: --N-I-F-E, that's how it should be spelled, right? And I'll find it there. The dictionary doesn't pronounce the word for you or define it, but it will give you then the correct spelling. And of course, I use spellcheck and I have people on my staff edit my work for me.
Jim: Now what's fascinating when you apply this to culture--
Jim: --and you look in Asia, for example, I studied at Waseda in Japan in college. But when you do Kanji or Chinese characters--
Jim: --they're pictograms.
Jim: And so, it's such a different system. They're putting pictures together to describe something, to give it meaning. So, they don't use the Western approach of letters form words that mean something. Pictures mean something.
Jim: So, I would think, just by the cultural default, that they're high picture-smart people.
Kathy: Yes, I think that's a great conclusion. I think God creates that. You look at any Asian language—Korean, Chinese, Japanese—how could you possibly learn those if you weren't picture-smart. And an application as I traveled the world working with missionaries, I've met missionaries in Asia who have had to leave Asia and go serve somewhere else, because they couldn't learn the language.
Kathy: And they're not stupid and it wasn't that they had made a mistake or hadn't heard God correctly. They heard from someone like me that, this is why this is so challenging. Why stay here? Let's go to Eastern Europe or let's go someplace where the written language isn't going to be our drawback? And what a gift for them to discover that they're not stupid.
Kathy: They are smart in a way that would make this either easy or hard.
Jim: I love the pictogram that they use for Savior is a roof over a lamb.
Kathy: Oh, seriously?
Jim: And that's of course, from 2,000 years ago. Yeah, that--
Jim: --was the early journeys of the Church, obviously. And that's how they depicted Jesus, was a roof over a lamb.
Kathy: See, I think that's a word-smart, picture-smart, logic-smart combination--
Jim: In every way.
Kathy: That's so cool.
John: Well, our guest today is Dr. Kathy Koch and she's written the book called How Am I Smart?: A Parent's Guide to Multiple Intelligence. I mean, this is just flyin' by. (Laughter) I'm tryin' to keep up with it all. And if you are, then let me encourage you to get a copy of the book. We'll send that to you for a donation today of any amount, details at www.focusonthefamily.com/radio.
And Kathy, just for those who are joining us here, you're talking about eight different kinds of smart that we all have available to us, I guess--
John: --from what you've said. Does that mean that I can do all of these, just to varying degrees of effectiveness?
Kathy: Most of us can. What I say to parents is that, I believe we are born with the capacity to develop all eight as strengths. Things do happen. There are birth defects and tragedies and occasions where a part of the brain may not fully develop or there might be paralysis that takes place because of something that someone didn't even intend to do and that part of the brain is then stifled and a child is actually afraid to use it.
Most of us, if we've had an eclectic upbringing and we've been exposed to a variety of things, we'll have five or six of the intelligences that we can rely upon quite easily and going back and forth--
Kathy: --because they work together well. And many of us will have one or two that aren't as important to us, partly because of the way we're raised. The research says that the earlier the brain is awakened, the greatly the likelihood it'll be a strength for a lifetime.
And that's one of the reasons that parents of young children need to expose their children to a variety of even play toys, so that each part of the brain has a chance to awaken. Go to the park and develop the nature-smart. Go to an art museum to develop the picture-smart or a craft class. Go to a gymnastics class to develop the body smart. The younger they are when they're awakened, the greater the likelihood they'll be a strength. Is it egotistical to think I have eight strengths? I don't know. That would depend on the person.
John: Oh, I know I don't have eight strengths (Laughter), because uh …
Jim: I don't know.
Kathy: But we could rely on them even if they're--
Kathy: --not strengths. Like, even though picture-smart is not one of my strengths, I've developed it more fully by hanging out with picture-smart people and by taking the time. Like for picture-smart people, if I say the word "dinosaur," they'll see it instantly, right? And you can't not make that happen. There's no gate you can put there. That's why we have to be careful of what we let our children be exposed to--
Kathy: --because you just say it and it's in your head. For me, it's not. The word "dinosaur" shows up, because--
Jim: The word shows up.
Kathy: --the words … oh, that's interesting--
Jim: Because as you said it--
Kathy: --because of the …
Jim: --and a picture of a dinosaur showed up for me.
Kathy: Right, but now I can see it if I take the time and if I'm motivated. And that's what parents and teachers need to do is, to give kids time and to set up the motivation, so that they can use that part of the brain and discover that those brain cells are there, too.
Jim: Well, and I think it's fascinating. I think circumstances play a great role in that. I think--
Jim: --when you talk about having those eight arrows available to you, I think again, it's a great design by the Lord--
Jim: --to allow you a tool, depending upon what your environment gives you. And is that a fair way to look at that, that you have that capacity, but if you're growing up in China with pictograms, you're gonna develop a pictoral [sic] approach to language, versus a logic Western approach, where a word means something? That's a--
Jim: --great example of it.
Kathy: Absolutely, it's a great example.
Jim: Let's move to the next one, logic-smart. I think I have one of those sons, as well, but go ahead and describe logic-smart.
Kathy: Yeah, we're the ones who think with questions. Actually, when you said that you were the child that used to ask why all the time--
Kathy: --that would be an example of being logic-smart. We love figuring things out on our own, so we can be a little bit dangerous. You know, when mom says, "Don't put the milk in the bowl yet," (Laughter) we're like, why not? What's gonna happen?
Jim: Let's go ahead and do it.
Kathy: Exactly and then (Laughter) we didn't do it and that's where self-control comes into play, of course. So, we love it when things make sense. We love to discover truth on our own. We tend to be fact-based; truth is really important too.
Jim: So, it's high justice.
Kathy: Yes, high justice for the logic-smart person. We can struggle with faith, because you can't reason your way to faith. That's a whole topic in itself, which is fascinating.
Jim: How does a parent of a logic-smart child address that, though? Knowing that if you have a logic-smart orientation with your child, how can you say the right things to help plant the seed so that child will find it easier to come to faith?
Kathy: Yeah. We answer their questions--
Jim: --and straightforward.
Kathy: We don't blow their questions off. We don't say, "You don't need to know that yet." We don't say, "Go look it up." We call the children's pastor and say (Chuckling), "Can you help me with this?" We go maybe to a search engine. We maybe go to our own Word of God, the Holy Word and we look it up for the child. So, the logic-smart kids, answer their questions. Ask them questions. And comfort them when things don't make sense. Hug them and say, "Sweetheart, the world doesn't always make sense."
Kathy: And if they're already saved or you're raising them in the faith, then you would say, "But it makes sense to God."
Kathy: You know, in my upbringing, I had to just decide, I don't get it all, but that's okay. So, we choose as an act of obedience and faith, to believe that God gets it and that's good enough for us.
Jim: And it's good, again, to speak to that logic-smart child in that way--
Jim: --to give them the rings of the things that they can hang onto, that God is still there, even though bad things happen--
Jim: --and children are harmed and those are the logic people [who] are the ones that are gonna say, "Well, why would bad things happen to good people?"
Jim: Why wouldn't God logically reward me if I'm doing everything right?
Jim: And adults do that, as well, but I mean, that is kind of the logic-oriented smart person, correct?
Kathy: It is and they can feel disconnected in youth group. They can--
Kathy: --have a hard time sometimes with their peers. Those of us who are logic-smart, we tend to not like small talk.
Kathy: I can sometimes be in a social setting with my life group at church or with whatever and I'm … like for instance, I'm going to a baby shower in a few days. And I'm going as an act of obedience and love for the person. And I'm willing to go and I'm happy to go. To be honest with you, as someone who's very logic-smart, I will not enjoy the chatter that to me, doesn't get us anywhere.
Kathy: Those of us who are logic-smart are solution-focused.
Kathy: We can either solve problems or create problems for others to solve, by the way. Wh …
Jim: Oh, go on.
Kathy: We need to be careful of these kids and we need to help them. What I say to kids, when I introduce them to myself and I say, "Look, this might be why your own family Thanksgiving dinner is stressful for you. Go anyway and honor your grandparents. But understand that you're not a bad kid that this is hard for you. It's hard for you because of the way God made you smart. It might mean someday you'll be a counselor, a lawyer, a teacher, a police officer, a brilliant pastor who can figure out the truth of the Gospel.
Jim: You're saying something there that really is important. When you have a child that has this smart bent, one of the eight that you're talking about and they're about to be put into a position where they're uncomfortable, use it as a teaching moment to help expand that area for them. That's a brilliant thing to do. It does take knowing your child and knowing that your introverted logic child, if you're gonna put them in a social setting and they're gonna be uncomfortable, you need to explain why they're gonna feel uncomfortable.
Jim: I don't think I've done a good job of that.
Jim: I mean, this book and this content really helps me to better understand that sensitivity, because it probably will give them a greater sense of peace as they are in that awkward position. Is--
Jim: --that fair?
Kathy: They tell me they find peace and hope and they don't feel like bad kids. And what's interesting is, sometimes they'll say to me, you know, "One day I want to be with my family and the next day I don't." And they feel really awkward in that. Well, that's often because of the difference intelligence that was activated. Or sometimes it's that mom and dad aren't smart the way they're smart. You know, if a mom isn't as logic-smart as a 7-year-old son, that can be pretty intimidating.
Jim: And that can happen.
Kathy: It can definitely happen. The mom has those brain cells there that she can choose to develop and honor her Creator by choosing to go to that part of her brain as a way of honoring and loving her son. But she can also very honestly say to her son, "That is a great question I've never even thought of."
Kathy: "Let's work together to get the answer," rather than feeling bad that she doesn't know. It's okay she doesn't know.
Kathy: Seven-year-olds will ask questions we've never thought of before.
John: Well, isn't that the truth? Seven-year-olds, 8-year-olds, 15-year-olds, they ask hard questions and we won't always have the answer in front of it. Our kids do see life from a different viewpoint and Dr. Kathy Koch has outlined some pretty good insights here on today's "Focus on the Family" about how God has uniquely wired each one of us and each one of our children.
Jim: John, this makes so much sense to me as I apply it to our own family. Jean and me and then our two boys, you know, I could see one or two or maybe three different types of intelligence that she's describing. We're gonna learn more next time and also see how these different wirings impact how we interact and even worship God.
John: And so, there are a lot of practical things that we still have to cover and we've got a list of the eight "smarts," if you will, that Dr. Koch has described. And you can get a CD or download of our best programs from this past year when you call us at 800-A-FAMILY or at www.focusonthefamily.com/radio .
Jim: And I'd like to illustrate just how effective this program was when it aired earlier this year, John. Dr. Koch shared a story with us when she was here this summer that I think you're gonna find interesting.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Since this program aired earlier this year, I was privileged to meet a couple who told me the most amazing and humbling story. They lived in a home, but wanted to purchase a larger home and the wife kept insisting on a large yard. And she couldn't articulate to her husband why she needed, not just wanted a large yard. And it became a point of real contention in their marriage, because he kept saying, "I'm gonna be the one that's gonna have to take care of the yard and I don't really enjoy that. And it's gonna cost us so much more. We really don't need a large yard." And she just insisted and they ended up buying a home with a large yard, but it just about, as they told me, killed their marriage.
And when the air showed [sic], the husband was at work and he called his wife and he said, "You've gotta turn on the radio and listen to this. And so, they listened together in different places. And when I got to the point where I was describing nature smart, this mom, as she was telling me this in Cincinnati, began to cry as she said to me, "Kathy, I didn't ever know I was nature smart. I just thought I'd like being outside." And the husband came up to the sales table at this point in the conversation and put his arm around his wife and he said, "Dr. Kathy, now I get it and now I don't resent the yard. And now I cut the lawn and I don't mind. And now our children ... we go outside with her and read on the swing on the patio, rather than in the den and we get it now. And Kathy, we're healthy, because you helped us understand that her need was legitimate and it was God's choice that she be nature smart."
End of Excerpt
Jim: Man, that is really something when you can put those pieces of why am I desiring or behaving a certain way and you can say, okay, God's wired me like this.
Since this program first aired in March, we helped reduce the amount of conflict in marriage. simply because that husband now understands how God created his wife to enjoy nature and all because of the radio program.
John: Uh-hm, well, that's why we're here, to reach in and touch a life. Jim, we can't plan those moments. We invited Dr. Koch here. The Lord used that conversation and made a real difference in that family's life.
Jim: It did and you know, any time we keep a marriage together, that's what matters. And here at the year end, we have some very generous friends who have committed to doubling your gift. So, if you can give us a gift of any amount, I mean, $20, $50, $100, that gift will be doubled to help more and more people. And let me just say, thanks for anything you can do to help us stand in the gap on behalf of the Lord to help a hurting family. That's what matters most.
John: Uh-hm, yeah, we're listener supported. We need your partnership and we really need to hear from you now and it's a great time to further the work of this radio program and all the different things that are going on here at Focus on the Family. Our number is 800-232-6459 or you can donate at www.focusonthefamily.com/radio . You can also mail a check if you'd prefer. Our address is Focus on the Family, 8605 Explorer Drive, Colorado Springs, Colorado 80920.
Our program was provided by Focus on the Family and on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team here, thanks for listening. Join us again tomorrow, as we once again, look at how you and your child can use your "smarts" to better connect with God and help your family thrive in Christ.
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Kathy KochView Bio
Dr. Kathy Koch is the founder and president of Celebrate Kids, Inc., an organization dedicated to helping parents and educators understand and meet the needs of today's children. She is also an international speaker and the author of several books including Screens and Teens, No More Perfect Kids and How Am I Smart? Dr. Koch earned her Ph.D. in reading and educational psychology from Purdue University. She resides in Ft. Worth, TX. Learn more about Dr. Koch at www.drkathykoch.com.