John Fuller: Well, today on Focus on the Family, you’ll hear about a marriage that almost fell apart.
Excerpt:
Mrs. Chelsea Cameron: You know, we grew up in very different worlds. I’m from upstate New York. He’s from L.A. Okay, that’s like meeting of the planets right there, okay?
Mr. Kirk Cameron: Yeah. I was a – I was a pampered L.A. actor!
End of Excerpt
John: Well, stay tuned to discover how Kirk and Chelsea Cameron overcame a host of challenges. As I said, this is Focus on the Family with Focus president, Jim Daly. And I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: John, many of our listeners will be familiar with Kirk and Chelsea Cameron from their acting careers. In fact, they met on the set of the TV show Growing Pains, which I’m sure many people are familiar with. That’s where Kirk played Mike Seaver and Chelsea played his girlfriend, Kate, but it’s their roles as husband and wife, and parents of six kids that will really be of interest to you. As we’ll hear in just a moment, as Kirk travelled and developed a very successful speaking ministry, Chelsea stayed at home to focus on their six children, which, she admits, put Kirk at the bottom of her priority list. And that’s a recipe for disaster. And let me just quickly add, if this program brings up concerns for your own marriage, please get in touch with us. We have counselors who can spend time with you on the phone, and we’d also encourage you to check out our Hope Restored marriage intensives, which have a success rate of over 80%. And if you can give to help us save and strengthen marriages one family at a time, we really need to hear from you today.
John: Yeah. You can donate or ask for help, uh, from one of our counselors, as well, if you’d like, or ask about our Hope Restored marriage intensives. All of this and much, much more when you call 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459. Or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And, uh, just a little more detail about the Camerons. After his TV career, Kirk went on to several movie roles. He was Captain Caleb Holt in the movie Fireproof, which was, of course, a big hit. And, uh, Kirk does have his own film studio and hosts marriage conferences across the U.S. Chelsea has a ministry teaching biblical marriage and family classes. And together, Kirk and Chelsea have founded “Camp Firefly”, which is a real fun getaway for seriously ill children and their families. I think you’ll really enjoy this as we listen now to Kirk and Chelsea Cameron speaking at a Focus on the Family Marriage Conference a number of years ago.
Kirk: Uh, before we share some thoughts with you, let me just say that I realize some of you may be feeling that we’re very under-qualified to be standing on this stage. After all, um, we’ve only been married once!
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: You know, it was 19 years ago. It’s been to each other the whole time. We’re just kind of a regular couple. But there’s some things that we’ve learned and – and – here’s – here’s the main thing: We know that the same God that designed the universe also designed marriage. And marriage is wonderful. And God speaks with authority on the subject of marriage. And He speaks on the subject through His Word. And we’ve gotten to know God and His manual, and – and found that His advice trumps Oprah’s every time. Amen?
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
Kirk: And He’s kind enough to make His Word understandable for regular couples like us. And He’s got a lot to say on the subject of how to keep it together in a difficult environment.
Chelsea: Amen. You know, Kirk and I made an intentional decision to leave Hollywood – the location of Hollywood – and move our family to the suburbs. We wanted to sort of get away from the curse outside and, um, just kind of move away from it all. But we quickly realized that the Bible doesn’t say, “Flee from big cities and your marriage will be successful.” And there was another curse that seemed to have nothing to do with location. And it came with us. And it was the inside curse. It was things like selfishness, and pride, and stubbornness, and a refusal to get in line with what God said about marriage. You know, we – we grew up in very – very different worlds. I’m from upstate New York. He’s from L.A. Okay, that’s like meeting of the planets right there, okay?
(LAUGHTER)
Chelsea: Anyone from the east coast knows what I’m talking about. And, you know, I come from – I – I had a very normal upbringing. I come from a hard-working middle class family. I went through elementary school and high school and college. Um, just down to earth family. And Kirk’s family’s wonderful. But Kirk’s journey was a little different. He kind of…
Kirk: Yeah, I was – I was a pampered L.A. actor.
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: I’ll admit it!
Chelsea: Okay, he said it! He said it! I – I didn’t say it! All right. So, you know, we just have these difference about, sort or, perspective on life and things. And I think that, um, those difference became very apparent…
Kirk: Oh yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: I remember one time – let me just jump in here, sweetie, um…
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: …I remember one time, we had, uh, a very clear illustration of how different uh we could see the same situation. Have you ever had that happen? This is how it went: We were sitting in our kitchen – you remember this? We were in our kitchen, and I was sitting at the kitchen table and you were, uh, at the sink unloading some dishes from the dishwasher. And I was talking to a friend. And, um, we’re talking away, and talking away and all of a sudden, I hear something just crash! Shatter! In the sink. And I – startles me, and I jump up out of my seat, I’m like, “What happened?” And I go over and Chelsea was unloading the dishwasher and she was putting away our very expensive wedding crystal. And she I guess had turned and – and putting away, she hit it against the side of the cast iron sink. And I’m looking at this shattered, you know, uh, crystal, and I say, “Honey! Honey! (sigh) You’ve gotta be more careful!”
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: And she gave me a look. And it was – it was a look that only an Italian New Yorker can give, you know…
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: It was that – it was that just (gasp)…
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: Right, it was one of those. And then it got worse. She’s looking at me right in face and she reaches into the dishwasher, she pulls out another one. She holds it over the cast iron sink and drops it!
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: Shatters another one! And I’m thinking, “What have I married?”
(LAUGHTER)
Chelsea: All right. Okay. You know there’s two sides of every story, right? We’ve learned that. I don’t remember that tone. I remember a different tone. It was a lot more scolding. Scolding for a mistake. Just a little innocent mistake. And I remember standing there thinking, “Are you gonna scold me for a mistake?” I had never been scolded in my life for a mistake! And I stood there thinking, “Oh my gosh, what have I married?”
(LAUGHTER)
Chelsea: And then something just took over my body and I grabbed the other one. I have no – I don’t know what happened there.
(LAUGHTER)
Chelsea: One of those moments. But you know, it was really just he came up in a home that handled those things differently than I did, than the home I came from. And that was just part of the beginning of seeing some major differences. We both had different views on marriage, different examples of marriage. Um, and you could spend your whole life trying to change another person; just trying to control and change your spouse. And I think that, um, most people do spend their whole life doing that. How’s it working for you girls? (LAUGHTER)
Chelsea: Does that work for you? No, it doesn’t work. Because we can’t control anyone else. My husband is out of the reach of my control. And when I learned that there was really only one person that I could control, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and that was me. I started realizing that, um, there is some problems in my own heart. Had nothing to do with Hollywood. Had nothing to do with location. It had to do with the fact that we both really didn’t know how to do this, and we were coming with so much pride and so much opinion. And it wasn’t that we needed to move further away from Hollywood. It was that we needed to move closer and dig deeper into the Word of God. And figure out what marriage was meant to be and how – how I was gonna glorify God in this marriage. And how I was gonna get my part right.
Kirk: One of the lessons that, uh, Chelsea and I learned – well, all right, I learned. It was an essential message that I didn’t – a lesson that I didn’t think I really needed to learn and I didn’t realize that until after that some damage had been done and I realized this is a huge lesson that I need to learn. I remember when – when Chelsea and I first met, right, the world just didn’t exist, right? She was my universe, right? Nothing else, uh, would get me down. I was just in this – I had the force field of love around me, right? And my attention was just totally on her. That’s all I thought – she was all I thought about 24 hours a day. I remember Valentine’s Day celebrations with the candles going up the stairs over here and a romantic dinner and my mom was catering it and set it all up …
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: So, um… (laughing).
Chelsea: Ah memories.
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: …And so, in – my life was just – you know, you just kind of have blinders on. And I remember standing at the altar thinking to myself, “Lord, if You let this marriage go through and she says, “Yes” and – and she commits to me, I just wanna serve her for the rest of my life. And I am not gonna break her heart. Not for a second!” I had committed I would not even kiss another actress for my work, let alone have an affair. And then, 15 years later, six children later, I found myself attracted to another woman. And I always felt that no matter what I said or how I said it, I felt so appreciated and respected. I mean, she laughed at almost everything that I said. And I didn’t realize that what I was doing was I was neglecting my wife, and my children, and doing some damage here. And I didn’t see it! And she had a name. You know what her name was? The Church. Ministry. I was being asked by so many within the church to go and speak as this, uh, Christian who lives in Hollywood – the guy from Growing Pains. And it was like I could go everywhere, and people would just say, “Wonderful! Wonderful job!” You know, you just get respect coming at you in a flood – laughing at your jokes, applauding at profound things that you could say.
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: And it wasn’t always that way at home. Guys, you know, you feel me? You know? And so, I began pouring more of my time, and my focus, and my attention where it was working, where I really felt like “I’m the man!” And my priorities got mixed up and upside down. And I was neglecting my wife and my children. The mistress wears many faces. And just as a woman’s heart can be stolen away by a man who pays attention to her and so a man’s heart can be wooed by work, and ministry, and accomplishment, and sports, friends. And not that those things are innately wrong in and of themselves. But when we get our priorities upside down, and we lose perspective, and we get away from God’s program for marriage and family and anything comes before this relationship, it’s wrong and it’s sinful and it needs to be cut out and gotten rid of. Proverbs 5 says, “The adulterous woman” – whoever she is, whatever face she wears – “her voice is sweet, her lips drip with honey. But run from her. Turn from her. Because her paths lead to death and destruction.” And so, I wanna ask you as you’re listening to this today, sir, ma’am, who is wooing you? Who has got your heart and your attention? Is it – is it work? Is it golf? Is it ministry? Who would your spouse say it is? Is there another woman in your life, or another man?
John: Some tough questions about relationships and priorities from actor and evangelist Kirk Cameron on today’s episode of Focus on the Family and in a few minutes, you’ll hear how Kirk and his wife, Chelsea, were able to stop that downward spiral they were experiencing in their marriage. You can get a CD of this program for a donation of any amount to the ministry when you call 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459. Or donate and request that CD at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Let go ahead and hear more now. We’ll turn as Chelsea Cameron shares her perspective on Focus on the Family.
Chelsea: You know, I have to say that at the same time that his focus was there, there was a whole ‘nother love affair going on inside of our home. And that was my focus on the six kids. And how they needed me. And it was – it was everything. And Kirk would come home, and it wasn’t like we were – he’d walk in the door and we’d be doing the wave or lighting our lighters, you know.
(LAUGHTER)
Chelsea: He was dad and he was home. And but…
Kirk: “Take out the trash.” “Here’s another diaper.”
(LAUGHTER)
Chelsea: But – but the truth is, if I had to prioritize where he was, he’d be number seven. And – I knew that that’s not the way God designed the family. I know, and I’ve heard that you can’t be a better mother than you are a wife. But I wasn’t really seeing that at the time. I was more focused on keeping record of his wrongs. And sort of – I’m a very independent girl, so I was just doing my thing with the kids. “Whether you’re here or you’re not here, I can do this.” And I kept those little hurts and disappointments right in my back pocket. And you know what? There’s a lot of resentment that starts to build up. And I … I remember I’m sure – I’m sure there’s so many people sitting right here who’ve said the words, “You know what, I’m done. I’m done.” Can anyone relate to that? How about the words, “I am so done”?
(LAUGHTER)
Chelsea: And then I heard a message from Dr. James MacDonald. And he – he was teaching from Ephesians 4:32: “And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ has forgiven you.” Just as God in Christ has forgiven me. Well, and, you know, your mind just thinks, “Well he doesn’t deserve it!” And then I started thinking, “If I got what I deserve, what I deserve is Hell and everything else is a blessing.” And God says to forgive the way He forgives? I didn’t know how to do that. And he started talking about how forgiveness has two parts. It’s one between you and God where you say, “Lord, You’ve forgiving me of so much every day of my life!” And I was so convicted. And I just said, I’m laying this – all of this down. “Help me to be like You, Lord. Help me to forgive. Help me not to keep record of wrongs.” And then he talked about how it was – one part was between me and God, and then one part was between Kirk and me. It was a process. So, there’s this decision in the process. And the process is living it out. It’s showing forth love. And the process is showing forth love and giving him my best. And being what I need to be for Jesus, even in the moment if you don’t feel it, God says, “Don’t act on your feelings. Act on your obedience and I’ll produce the feeling in you.” And when you fail at the process and you’re playing those tapes again in your head or he disappoints you, you don’t go back to unforgiveness. You go back to the cross. “Lord, now I’ve failed You. Help me to be like You. Help me to forgive like You.” And the more you do that, and you work that, you don’t go back to unforgiveness, it’s like the chain is broken in your life. And you get free. And the blessings started to flow back in our life. And the joy in our home. There is no meaningful relationship, there is no lasting marriage, without forgiveness. And it’s the most Christ-like thing you can do. And it made such a profound change in our life, in my life, in our marriage.
Kirk: I love you so much for forgiving me so much.
(LAUGHTER)
Chelsea: Well, it’s a two-way street, believe me. (Laughing) He’s a very forgiving person.
Kirk: I’m not as good at forgiveness because I haven’t had as much practice as she has.
Chelsea: No, it’s not true. That’s not true. (Laughter)
Kirk: Um, the one word that I think would summarize, uh, what it is that keeps us strong and healthy in Hollywood and gives us the power to do the things we just talked about is the “cross.” It’s the first thing that attracted me to Chelsea and it’s the thing today that keeps me in love with her. If your marriage is just based on appearances or on certain activities, what happens when those appearances begin to change, and the activities are no longer possible.
Chelsea: Yeah.
Kirk: It’s gotta be a whole lot deeper than that. I remember when I first met Chelsea, she was sitting off on the side of the set and she was just kind of sitting down with her cowboy boots and jeans, looking really cute. And, uh, she had a head set on and she had this uh necklace with a little cross that was made of sapphires. And this is a Hollywood set of Growing Pains. And, uh, I saw her there and I thought to myself, “I’d like to go over and talk with her.”
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: Uh, and, uh, I’m getting all nervous, ah, “She’s out of my league! What am I thinking?” You know? And, uh – and then I went over and I – I thought, uh, “She’s got a cross on! Could she be a Christian?” And then I thought to myself, “Nah, she’s beautiful!” And I figured…
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: …That Christians – that girls were either beautiful or Christians. I figured that they would never be both.
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: And so I said, uh, “Hey! What are you listening to?” And she says, “Oh, he’s a band, you’ve never heard of it. I’m sure you’ve never heard of it.” I said, “Really? Give me a shot. Who – who is it?” She said, “Petra.”
(LAUGHTER AND CHEERS)
Kirk: I said, “Petra!” I said, “I know Petra. I love Petra!” (Singing) “More power to ya, when you’re standing on His Word!” Remember that song? Yeah! And I thought, “I love Petra!” And she says, “Really?” I said, “Yeah, are you a Christian?” She says, “Yeah, are you?” I said, “Yeah! No way!”
(LAUGHTER)
Kirk: This is great! You know? And that’s what first attracted me to her was that cross. And today, I’ve learned that as feelings come and go, and as things change, and, uh – and the emotional barometer, thermometer, whichever it is, goes up and down…
Chelsea: (Laughter).
Kirk: …Have this motto always in the front of your mind: “Never look down on your spouse. Instead, keep looking up to the cross.” The cross. The cross. That’s what will save you, not only from Hell, but it will save you from a failed marriage. Because when you look at the cross, you look and you say, “I’m not deserving of that!” What my spouse has done to me, and the coldness or the bitterness, or the fact that she or he ignores me and treats me the way that I don’t think I deserve. I look to the cross and go, what I’ve done to the Lord is far worse than that. A million times worse. And He didn’t reject me. He loved me. And He died for me and He gave me a gift I could never earn or make up for. And that’s fuel in your tank. That’s the picture of love. And then we take that with a full tank and turn to our spouse and give love, whether we feel like it or not. And as we do that, transformation happens. Remember, “We love Him because He first loved us.”
Chelsea: You know, I used to – it’s interesting, because we were just talking about this. And I remember standing at the altar with Kirk and looking at him and thinking “We have got an amazing thing.” And I realize that love not tested is really not love at all. And it’s when you go through the valley and you have to be humbled, and you have to be refined, and you have to be broken, and you have to go to God’s Word, and you have to keep trusting, and you have to keep persevering. And you come out the other end together, now you have a “thing”. We have much more of a thing 20 years later than we did at the altar. And it has very little to do with us. It has nothing to do with us. (Laughter) It has everything to do with God transforming us. I’m not getting a new husband, but I can give him a new me. And God is a faithful God. And um, you can still…
Kirk: That’s right, you’re not getting a new husband.
(LAUGHTER)
Chelsea: (Laughter) And you can still pray for us out there in Hollywood, but, um, God is an amazing God. He is the glue. It’s the cross that holds us together.
Kirk: God bless you!
Chelsea: Thank you!
(APPLAUSE)
John: We’ve been listening to Kirk and Chelsea Cameron today on Focus on the Family and they’ve been sharing very openly and honestly about their marriage and some of the struggles that they’ve overcome. And that was recorded at a Focus on Marriage event, held here on our Colorado Springs campus, just a few years ago.
Jim: And, John, I really appreciate what Kirk had to say a few minutes ago: “Never look down on your spouse.” Boy, that’s good advice. “Instead, keep looking up to the cross.” That’s powerful. Here’s another tip that I got from a friend. When you’re in an argument with your spouse, imagine Jesus standing right beside them. That makes you pull up a little short, especially when things are getting heated. You’ve gotta take a second to step back and remember that Christ died for your spouse. That’s His daughter or His son. And then treat that person with respect, great respect. That’s a good principle to remember when you’re having “one of those days” with our husband or wife. And, you know, I firmly believe that sooner or later, everyone needs help with their marriage, and that’s one of the main reasons that Focus on the Family exists – to help your marriage thrive. And as we said at the top of the program today, we have an amazing team of counselors here who are able to spend some time with you on the phone, and then refer you if necessary, to a like-minded counselor in your local area. We have an extensive network of counselors across the U.S. and Canada. And if your marriage needs more help, let me strongly recommend our Hope Restored marriage intensives. This program is so successful, we’ve expanded it to three locations now: Michigan, Georgia, and Missouri. As couples leave the intensive, 95% say they believe it will make a difference in their marriage and two years later, 80% of couples say they are doing well. And that’s a truly a remarkable success rate. Here’s a note we received from Sarah. She said, “Our marriage seemed hopeless, but we gave it ‘one last shot’ by attending Hope Restored in Branson. We learned new ways to communicate, which has been very helpful. But the best thing that happened during the intensive was discovering that God sees me and loves me! What a blessing! The counselors taught us how to practice self-care, which takes a lot of pressure off our marriage, and helps us stay focused on what God is doing each day. Thank you, Focus on the Family!” And let me say, thank You, Lord, and to our donors, for saving marriages like Sarah’s through Hope Restored.
John: It really is a team effort and we’re so pleased at what God does. We couldn’t do this, though, without thousands of donors who want to help couples thrive in their marriages.
Jim: You know, it’s like a safety net that we’ve been able to build with all of you. And saving marriages is a tangible way to help families. When we help a marriage, we’re also saving children from the trauma of divorce and the poverty that often follows. It’s a win-win. So, let me encourage you to donate to the marriage-building efforts of Focus on the Family. We need your partnership. And when you make a donation of any amount, we’ll send you a CD of this message from Kirk and Chelsea Cameron, as our way of saying thank you. Get a copy to pass along to a friend, co-worker, or maybe a family member.
John: Yeah. This is the kind of message that really is going to resonate with so many different people and can bear a second or third listening as well. And you can reach when you call 800-A-FAMILY. That’s 800-232-6459. Or donate online and request you CD. You can also find more marriage help, of course. All of that at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Next time join us as Pastor Brady Boyd encourages you to reach others for Christ.
Teaser:
Pastor Brady Boyd: And that’s the power of the Great Commission is to go outside of your comfort zone. Go to a people that misunderstand each other and to have common dialogue, to have conversations with people that turns into a witnessing moment.
