Focus on the Family Broadcast

Preview:

Dr. Kevin Leman: But if you look at the teachings of Christ, He was always an authority, and that’s why I tell mommies, you don’t take any guff from your son, ever. Dads, realize you put indelible imprint on those daughters’ lives. So be careful with that quick tongue.

End of Preview

John Fuller: Well, Dr. Kevin Leman was our guest last time on Focus on the Family, offering help to parents as we try to raise responsible, successful kids. And we’ve got more encouragement from him today. Uh, stay with us. Your host is Focus on the Family President Jim Daly, and I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: Uh John, last time we talked about the importance of, uh, building character into our children. What parent doesn’t want to do that? Keeping the end goal in mind, Dr. Leman mentioned that. You know, it’s hard when you’re dealing with a four-year-old.

John: Uh-huh.

Jim: … to think of them as 25 or 30. But I’m there now, and I can see it. It’s so much fun to see how many times you said, “Say please, say thank you.” Now they’re doing it.

John: And they’re polite, yeah.

Jim: It’s amazing.

Audience:(laughs)

Jim: Uh, but today Dr. Leman will share more helpful methods, uh, that we can put into practice to, you know, ensure that, uh, our kids have not just successful careers perhaps but that they’re successful as human beings.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: As people. And at the core of that, of course, is a relationship with Christ, and- and putting those, um, you know, wonderful attributes into play in their relationship.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So, I’m looking forward to it.

John: I am too. We always enjoy the conversation with Dr. Leman, and, uh, he’s written over 60 books. He’s a well-known psychologist and speaker, and, uh, he’s been on this broadcast, boy, he’s been in these studios so many times, Jim. Uh, today we’re gonna be talking about one of his more recent books, 8 Secrets to Raising Successful Kids: Nurturing Character, Respect, and a Winning Attitude. And you can get your copy from us here at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast or call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.

Jim: Kevin, welcome back.

Dr. Leman: Thank you. It’s so good to be here.

Jim: (laughs)

Dr. Leman: I- you know, I- I-

Jim: Day two.

Dr. Leman: I- I just reread this book, uh, this week in preparation for coming here, and as I was reading the book, I told myself, you know, it’s amazing ’cause I’ve written a lot of books on rearing kids. I said, “But this is really good stuff.”

Jim: (laughs)

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: The toughest part is the character part. You know, and, uh…

Jim: Takes a while to see it sometimes.

Dr. Leman: It does. But just underscore the fact that, hey, parents, you know, they’re looking at you. And it’s just so important for you to be the person you want your kid to be. If you keep that in mind as you read this book, I think it’ll be more meaningful to you.

Jim: Yeah. Uh, we do have a live audience, small audience, but we’re gonna ask them for questions at the end like we did last time.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And, uh, it was fun [crosstalk 00:02:45] hearing from a couple of folks.

John: Yeah, yeah, I enjoyed having them here.

Jim: Kevin, let’s start with Proverbs. Uh, many parents mention this, uh, great scripture. It says, “Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it.” Wow, that’s a promise. Let’s do that. You have a little different take on that.

Dr. Leman: Well, it’s, uh… I think it’s an interesting take. Number one. Uh, train up. My observation is that as parents today we basically train down. We don’t train up. Uh, we are too negative with them. We use warnings, and again, warnings are not a part of any of the Leman books. Uh, warnings are rather disrespectful acts that say, “You know what?” And we tend to repeat warnings.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Leman: It’s not like you give them one warning. It’s over and over and over again. Which sort of says essentially, “I think you’re so stupid I have to tell you two or three times.” And by the way, when you call a kid to ask them to do anything, how many times do you call them? See, I’ve talked to your children, and I know the answer to that.

Jim: (laughs)

Dr. Leman: And the answer is three times. And when you ask a kid about that, they’ll tell you straight out. “Well, the first time it’s just sort of a general alert.”

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: “And the second time, he or she, mom or dad, raises their voice and, uh, a decibel or two. And the third time, they put my middle name in there, I know they mean business.” So, my question is, do you want to train up kids to learn to listen? Tell them once. Have a consequence that follows if they don’t do simple things they’ve asked. I think that’s a good idea. But the point is, we tend to train down. And mom is going into a store. She has a little talk with the kids. “Now listen up. Don’t do this. Don’t do that. Don’t ask for anything ’cause the answer is no.” What if you just communicated your kid? And just be aware of those kind of things. So, train up a child, okay. In the way he should go. Now I love this one. Over in Proverbs 3, King Solomon ends with, uh, “And He will direct your paths.” Now notice that’s plural. You don’t have one path in life. Your kid isn’t gonna have one path in life. Your kids are gonna, you know, think of yourself. Uh, majors in college you had or jobs, opportunities. We have a lot of different paths. But that uniqueness, train up the child in the way he should go does not speak of your child. That’s how God would have your kid go.

Jim: Any comment on the he will not depart from it? (laughs)

Dr. Leman: Yeah. We don’t know what turns those kids are gonna take in life. We think we do a lot. We mentioned yesterday in our broadcast that, you know, kids are brought up in the church and so many of them leave. Why? Do they not see that as real? What did they miss? I mean, I think the fact that you can drive down the interstate in your state and talk to the Creator of the universe. Man, that’s pretty cool.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Leman: You know what I’m saying? Well, there’s got to be a realness for kids to feel like, you know, I can talk to the Creator, and He cares about me. And I think you have to have a passion for being a parent today. If you want that kid to not depart from what you’ve taught him. I think the problem is that we do all these other things. And like we said yesterday, we focus on the things and the success and the career, rather than who they really are. And I made it a point with my five kids to always say, “You know, I love you for you are. I love to see that kindness in you.”

Jim: Yeah.

John: Yeah.

Jim: Uh, Kevin, let’s, uh, get to the life mantras that you describe in the book. I think you start the first one, there’s four. The first one is the boss.

Dr. Leman: Yeah.

Jim: Why don’t we describe these for the listeners?

Dr. Leman: Well, some of you as parents are the boss. You know the right thing to do.

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: Order and doing things right is okay, but there’s limits where that boss doesn’t become approachable. And the next one I talk about is the perfectionist, and they’re a step worse than the boss. Because when they’re wrong, it’s someone else’s fault. And I think admitting to your kids in as godly a way as you can. “Hey, I sorry. I blew that. I ran over your feelings. I had no right to say that. I was prying, that’s your business. Let the heat calm down, and we’ll talk about it another time.” I think that kind of approach makes you what? Approachable.

Jim: (laughs)

Dr. Leman: You know, Jesus Himself as he walked this Earth, He was approachable.

Jim: Yeah.

Dr. Leman: They tried- remember, they tried to keep the little kids away from Him? What does He say? Huh. Front seat, come up here, kiddos. I think we have to keep that in mind as we try to model what God would have us be as a parent.

Jim: Yeah. So, we have the boss, the perfectionist, what’s three?

Dr. Leman: Jesus had bad parents, as a matter of fact. He was lost for three days; they didn’t even notice he was gone.

Jim: (laughs)

Dr. Leman: I digress.

Jim: I think that was cultural back then.

Dr. Leman: I digress.

Audience:(laughs)

Jim: They had a big- big playground. Okay, loyal to the core.

Dr. Leman: Oh, well, you know, these guys are great. Uh, I think they’re the peanut butter and jelly of the sandwich. They never saw themself higher from anyone’s perspective than what they are. They tend to be servant-oriented people. They have some pretty basic good parental skills just in the fact that they’re kind of a person. And then you got, what do I call them? The party-

John: Party central I think…

Dr. Leman: Yeah, party central.

John:  in the book.

Dr. Leman: Listen, if you have kids like that, never met a stranger. Outgoing. Might have a sense of humor. Uh, sort of garner attention. And again, keep in mind that all kids are attention getters. But they get it positively or negatively, that’s the key. And as a kid gets discouraged, he or she will become, you know, more acting out in a negative way. So again, it goes back to the heart. You know, the… I mentioned that King Solomon in chapter 3 of the Book of Proverbs. He uses the word heart three different times in six little verses. And no matter what we’re talking about on Focus on the Family. I got news for you. It all goes back to heart. Heart for ministry. Heart for being a parent. People who contribute to Focus on the Family. They know all the things Focus does. They’re in a lot of things. It’s just not a radio broadcast. Okay. And so, people who catch the vision of what they do, they want to become a part of it. Because they know they help people.

Jim: That’s true.

Dr. Leman: But we need the love of God in our lives, for sure.

Jim: Kevin, one of the- the difficulties, and we’ve touched on this yesterday and today. The… Trying to get on the same page. You talk about getting on the same page as parents. And Jean and I struggled with that at times. Because she was, you know, a little more demanding. I was a little less demanding. And she’d be frustrated with me, and I’d kind of feel like, “Man, I’m seeing that this is going into a dead end.” Um, speak to the parents that have that difficulty of getting on the same page. And how do you compromise in that regard? ‘Cause some of that’s built out of your own temperament. Your own experience as a child. All those things.

Dr. Leman: It is.

Jim: So how- how would you coach, uh, a couple coming in for that counseling session?

Dr. Leman: Well-

Jim: And you’re saying, “Okay, here’s what you got to think about?”

Dr. Leman: You ask tough questions. That’s a good question because marriage isn’t easy. Uh, living with a woman is not an easy thing to do.

Jim: (laughs)

Audience:(laughs)

Jim: Please remember, write Kevin Leman.

Dr. Leman: Yeah.

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: I mean, you women are weird. I mean-

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: You hug anything that moves. I mean, uh-

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: Uh, u- us men, we’re like, we specialize in arm’s length relationships, you know. But that’s a whole another book. Another topic, but-

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: But my point is-

Jim: Yeah, what is your point?

Dr. Leman: You- you work-

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: You work toward understanding how your husband sees life from behind his eyes.

Audience:Yeah.

Dr. Leman: Okay? And he might be more of a law-and-order person than you are. Rules are rules. And you know, and yet, you may have that gift of being able to talk with a- a fiery 15-year-old who’s got fire in their belly, and she’s very unhappy, and she thinks she’s treated like a little kid. But you, mom, and that’s what I say to dads. Trust that woman, she’s so much better at relationships than you are in all probability. To go in and deal with it. And then, mom, talk to dad. I mean, tell him what’s going on. Keep him in the loop. One thing men hate is hearing things third hand. You know? So, it all gets back to communication and compassion. You know? Those are two C’s. And commitment. When you married, you made a commitment to almighty God. Okay. And to each other. It’s easy to bail out. You get married today, chances are seven years from today, you’re done. So those of you who’ve made it through 18 years of marriage or 20 years of marriage, congratulations. You’re gonna make it in all probability. But it’s every day. I mean if you want to turn each other on. This is especially for men but pray together audibly. There’s not a woman I’ve ever met who wouldn’t love her husband just to say, “honey, let’s pray.”

Audience:Mm-hmm.

Dr. Leman: Okay? And when you pray audibly, what comes out of your heart and out of your mouth, lots of those things aren’t said to each other. And it’s sort of new information. “I didn’t know you were worried about that,” or whatever.

Audience:Mm-hmm.

Dr. Leman: So, if you have this intimate connection. I wrote a book by that title once. The Intimate Connection. You got intimate connection; you can take on all comers.

Jim: Yeah. Um, Kevin, in the book you mention some things parents can do to make changes. So, I’m thinking of that- that dad or that mom right now who are… They’re thinking, “Man, I haven’t well-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … up to this point. This is convicting to me.” Uh, to give you, uh, kind of that list that I looked at that spoke to me. Starting anew, a prisoner no more. Expect the best, get the best.

Dr. Leman: Yeah.

Jim: You mentioned that last time. Count to 10 before speaking. That’s a great parental encouragement. (laughs)

Dr. Leman: Yeah.

Jim: Power of vitamin E. Just touch on a couple of those. And the book is full of those great recommendations, if you’re that parents whose feeling, like, “Man, I haven’t done this.” Here you go.

Dr. Leman: Well, one of them, I think, is the obvious, is what can I do different? Because what happens is we do the same thing over and over again. As husband and wife, I’ll tell you, you have the same argument all the time. It’s just in different form. So, my question to you is who’s winning your marriage? Marriage isn’t a competitive sport, so I don’t get it. Uh, but with your kids the same thing applies. So, you think about, how can I do things differently? If you’re one of those persons that’s quick to anger, you know, it’s part of your personality. Do you realize that one of reasons why you’re quick to anger is because it was paid off when you were a kid? And when you got angry, everything stopped. And so that’s control. Men tend to be controllers. Women tend to be pleasers. I know that’s a- a broad brush, but it’s basically true. But getting to a point where, Jim, you mentioned counting to 10. Think before you engage those lips in conversation. Uh, have a soft spirit about you. Don’t ask kids questions. Okay. It’s really… Ask for their opinion. They’ll talk your ear off. Treat kids differently. Don’t react, respond.

Jim: Yeah. You know, one of the ones that caught me, and ’cause I had this experience, was, uh, ask for forgiveness. You, sometimes as parents, we don’t think we need to. I remember Trent was probably five or six years old. I think I probably reacted over the top on something. Uh, which was, you know, not typical for me. So, I went in, and I remember he was in top bunk ’cause he’s the oldest son, right? So, he’s get- he gets the top bunk.

John: He gets his pick, yeah.

Jim: And I remember having that eye to eye look at him, and I said, “Hey, I just want you to know I’m really sorry.” And this big smile broke out over his face. I’m like, “What are you thinking?” And he said, “I just didn’t know parents had to apologize.” (laughs)

Audience:(laughs)

Jim: I thought, “Wow, that’s good.” And, uh, but it was powerful.

Dr. Leman: When you made a fool of yourself, okay, and sometimes we do. Yeah, it takes a big person to say, you know, “honey, I was wrong.” Uh, and saying that to a young kid, a lot of us have the idea of, “Hey, he’s the kid. And I’m the boss.” And this goes back to train up a child, you know, I know what’s best for my kid. No, God knows what’s best for your kid. He’s given them different kids and ability. Our job is to nurture them. And time after time after time, if you come I softly, you’ve opened the doors, and you’ve dropped the defenses. Okay. When you come in powerful, okay, accusatory. Everything gets shut down, and nothing you say is gonna get past that veneer that person puts out there to keep you at bay.

Jim: Mm-hmm. Good parenting tip. All right let’s move to questions from the small group audience we have here. Let’s go to, I think it’s Nicki.

Nicki: My name is Nicki. Um, I have two wonderful, wonderful kids. Um, my son is 10 and my daughter is 8. Um, and they are super smart and kind and wonderful, and generous to children. But-

Dr. Leman: Are they for sale?

Jim: (laughs)

Audience:(laughs)

Nicki: They are, yes. (laughs)

Audience:(laughs)

Nicki: But we have a… We work really hard for our kids to provide anything and everything that they could need. But we have a hard time with them being humble and grateful for the things that they have. Always seeming to expect and, um, want more. How do I work with this?

Dr. Leman: Well, number one. I love that question. I think one of the things we have failed to do across the board as parents in America is create a grateful heart in kids.

Nicki: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Leman: Kids are on the take. They’re hedonistic little suckers.

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: You give them one, they want two. Okay. On top of that, we live in an arena where people who have means, okay, give their kids far too many things. These kids that play team sports today, you should see their bags. They’re embroidered.

Nicki: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Leman: I mean, it’s crazy what we do. “Oh, my kid has to have the best.” I grew up poor. And I think growing up poor is a real blessing. ‘Cause you understand… I mean, I don’t… I live a life where I- Every day, I say, Lord, give me opportunities to bless people. This morning in an IHOP, I had a lady, uh, she worked all night long. I was there, like, at 5:30 in the morning. And I said, “Boy, I remember working all night, that’s tough.” And she said, “Well, you get used to it.” Well, I think my bill was nine dollars, gave her a $10 tip. I know it’s supposed to be 20% or whatever. But you can go out of the way to bless somebody. I mean, and your kids see that. I’m tal- I got kids who are givers. Is it an accident that they’re givers? No. But I just think that staying grounded, giving your kids what they need, not what they want. There’s a huge difference in those things.

Nicki: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Leman: But the affirmation of who they are and the love for them, and the encouragement. That vitamin E, as I call it, is so important. But don’t forget vitamin N. Because vitamin N is no. We’re not gonna do that. And that’s what helps keeps kids in the authoritative realm of life and not the authoritarian, where they’re just gonna react or fight back, or the permissive. And keep in mind, the permissive creates rebellion, and the other extreme does as well. I think you’re in good shape. Congratulations on two great kids.

Jim: Yeah. I love that. Uh, Kevin, we cannot end without hearing that wonderful story that some listeners may never have heard about you dropping your daughter off at college.

Dr. Leman: Well, I… But there’s several. I remember my 15-year-old daughter Chrissy, announcing… Uh, it was her first varsity volleyball game, that we were not to come to her game, okay. And she finally relented and said, “Well.” And I told her. I said, “Well, I’m coming.” But drove 90 miles to it. That same kid, you know, when she went to college, she was in Chicago. I travel a lot. I dropped in and surprised her. And, uh, she walked out of her biology class. And, uh, she didn’t even see me. I’m an old guy. I would think I’d stick out like a sore thumb. And- and all this- I finally said, “Leemy, how’s it going?” And she whirled her head around. She said, “My daddy’s here. My daddy’s here.” And she’s yelling to everybody in her class, “My daddy’s here,” and she jumps into her arms. Story number one, your kid will tell you, “I don’t want to be in your life.” Okay, uh, separate. The truth of the matter is, they don’t only need us in our life, they want us in their life. Now, let me tell you about Holly. And I think this exemplifies what parenthood is all about. And by the way, you get one shot at it. And talk to anybody who’s got kids in college, they’ll tell you how- how quick those years go by. Oldest daughter went to a place called Grove City College in Pennsylvania. Wonderful school, by the way. And, uh, we live in upstate New York in the summertime. I have a cottage on the lake where I hide out from people. During the summer-

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: … um, I was sort of having fun, I think, at my wife’s expense by telling her, “Pretty soon, you’re gonna have to say goodbye to your little daughter.” Huh. In retrospect, I think why I did it ’cause I knew it was gonna bother me.

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: Okay.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Leman: So, whenever I told her that, she would do this. Whenever she cries, she does this. “Oh, I don’t want to talk about it. I don’t want to talk about it.” Well, the day comes. It’s that fateful day where you- you take two cars to get all the freshman stuff. The rug and everything else you take to college. And, uh, I remember that day like it was yesterday. It’s one of my all-time favorite stories. ‘Cause it’s that time where (laughs) you realize, “Wow. This is a new journey here. A new chapter.” And you… And we pulled up, and boys with blue button-down collars, long sleeve shirts, emptied out the- the cars. And- and you get to that precipice where you’re in a room you can hardly turn around in. You meet the parents of the roommate, you meet the roommate, but then it comes that time. Holly starts saying something, like, you know, “It’s time to go.” And I- I just said to her. I said, “I got to get out of here.” And I felt claustrophobic. I literally ran out. And, uh, she said to me, said, “What, is there a ballgame?” I said, “No. No. No. Well, later, there’s a ballgame.” It was a Sunday afternoon.

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: But anyway, I went out. I just sort of freaking out. My wife is behind me with Holly. They’re about 50 feet behind me. I get up to the parking lot. And now her and her mother are now doing this back and forth, holding each other. And I still remember the sun just sort of gleaming off of them. And- and thinking, “Stay right there. Don’t come over here.”

Audience:Mm-hmm.

Dr. Leman: I- I can’t do this.

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: Soon as I had the thought, she makes a beeline for me, okay. And she comes up to me, and she puts her arms around me. She looks up and says, “Daddy, I love you so much.” And I just lost it. You ever see a man cry where their whole body sorta-

Audience:Yeah.

Dr. Leman: … does this lurching? Well, that’s me. And I remember thinking, “It’s so weird. I’m in the parking lot, and I’m reflecting back to her being 10 years old.” And- and just thinking, “You can’t be all grown up.” And it goes back to that verse we talked about earlier. You know? 22:6. Train up a child. Did I train her up right? Did I teach her everything she needed to teach? And- and finally in true male style, I took her little waist. She’s tell, 5’9″, skinny like her mom. And I said, “Holly, you got to go.” And I flipped her around. You know what she did? She just left. And she got toward the corner of the- the dorm, and I said, “Holly, call us tonight.” And she’d do one of these things over her shoulder. Never turned around. Well, I was miserable. I said, “Let’s get out of here.” We drove up I-79 out of Pittsburgh toward Erie, Pennsylvania, stopped at Red Lobster, ate a dead fish for lunch.

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: Uh, nothing helped, ‘cuz a part of me was gone. I knew she’d call. I’m sitting there like a darn fool. 10:00 o’clock at night, she doesn’t call. Finally, I cave in. I go to bed. I’m an old dean of students. I knew enough not to call her, I waited. The following Sunday, she calls. I’m telling you; I was so excited to hear that. We heard all about freshman week. Three Rivers, uh, what Pittsburgh looks like at night. And I- After we talked for probably 45 minutes, I said, “Holly, I got to ask you a question. When you were walking away from us, what were you thinking about last Sunday?” She said, “Daddy, it’s funny you bring that up because I was thinking about this week.” I said, “Well, what were you thinking about?” She said, “Well, I thought about the fact that you and mommy had brought me up right. And now it was my turn to go and do it in life.” And this goes back to what we talked about on this broadcast. Start with the end in mind. What do you want that kid to be like? Well, about four or five years after that situation, that sad farewell, I was in, uh, Phoenix, Arizona speaking into an auditorium about 3,000 people. And I was closing the seminar with this vignette because I think it symbolizes so much about what parenthood’s all about. I see this young lady coming down the outside. And I looked, and I thought, “That girl looks like Holly.” And she kept coming. It’s Holly. And I announced to crowd. “It’s Holly!”

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: And everybody stands up and gives her a standing ovation. I’ve been working like a dog for two hours. Nobody gave me a standing ovation.

Audience:(laughs)

Dr. Leman: But she comes up, and I got a mic on, and she says, “Oh, daddy.” She said, “That was beautiful, but you got to tell that story right.” There’s the Judge Judy in her, that first born. I said, “honey, I told it. What are you talking about?” She said, “No, there’s something I’ve never told you.” I said, “What’s that?” She said, “Well, I didn’t turn around because I was crying. And I didn’t want you and mommy think that I couldn’t make it in life.” Hey, parents, do you see how much your kid needs you to come alongside of them? Not to flaw pick, not to say you should, you can do better. Just come along life’s journey with them. You do that, I tell you, you’re going to have a great kid you’re going to be proud of.

Jim: Kevin, this is so good. I mean, that really- that really hits you right in the heart. And-

John: Yeah.

Jim: … I’m sure parents are thinking about the long game now. And that’s part of the goal here. Let’s get parents in a better place about their parenting journey. This great book. 8 Secrets to Raising Successful Kids, a must have. And, uh, you can get that through Focus on the Family here. Make a gift of any amount, and we’ll send it as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. And we’ll include the audio download of the broadcast as well. And let me also mention that we have some incredible friends who are passionate about helping parents like you to raise godly children who will impact their world. Uh, these generous friends have offered to match your donation to help us come alongside more struggling families, especially around the holidays. So, give families hope this season by making a donation. Uh, and again, your gift will be doubled by these special friends to Focus on the Family.

John: We hope you’ll get in touch today. And as Jim noted, we’ll send you the book and audio download when you make a donation to Focus on the Family. Just call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459. Or visit focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team here, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.