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Reconnecting as a Couple During the Coronavirus Outbreak

Reconnecting as a Couple During the Coronavirus Outbreak

Dr. Greg and Erin Smalley describe how you can see the challenges of the coronavirus pandemic as an opportunity to strengthen your marriage. The Smalleys share stories of their own confinement experience and insights they've gained that can help you reconnect with your spouse and develop a thriving relationship.
Original Air Date: April 28, 2020

Excerpt:

Erin Smalley: I long to know what’s going on inside of Greg. And I long to share what’s going on inside of me. I personally did not get married to be stuck in an eternal business meeting with Greg you know, talking about finances and conflict. What I really long for is to know that he cares, that I care and hearing what’s really going on. But that will not happen intentionally unless we pursue it.

End of Excerpt

John Fuller: That’s Erin Smalley and she’s here along with her husband, Dr. Greg Smalley. This is Focus on the Family with your host Focus president and author Jim Daly. And I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, the coronavirus has entered us into a whole new level of stress. Given the fact that we’re sheltering-in-place in a lot of states, that’s becoming now the, uh – the tipping point. We think more and more people are going to be able to get out of their home. But, man, it’s been interesting to one, be cooped up a lot with your family.

(Laughter)

John: Be cooped up. That’s kind of a negative thing, right?

Jim: Not – not at all. I mean, I think something like four out of five couples or families have said they’ve really seen the silver lining around this dark cloud. That they’ve enjoyed spending time together. It’s strengthened their family. That’s terrific. That’s 80%. And I’m thrilled with that. But at the same time, even Jean and I, we’ve got to get our space during the day. I mean, I think because I tend to be a little more verbal than Jean, a little more extroverted, I think I notice when I’m wearing on her, so I kindly retreat and go do things like birdcages right now. I’m putting up bird nests all over the backyard.

(Laughter)

Jim: Just something to do.

John: Yeah.

Jim: And, uh – but anyway, everybody’s dealing with this in a variety of ways. And today, we want to help you think about what’s happening in your relationship with your spouse. And we’ve invited two great guests to talk about it.

John: And as I mentioned, Dr. Greg and Erin Smalley are our guests today. They’re colleagues here at Focus on the Family heading up our marriage ministry. They speak and write about marriage all the time and they have a brand new book called Reconnected: Moving from Roommates to Soulmates in Your Marriage. And of course, we have that at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Hey, Greg and Erin. It is great to have you back here at Focus on the Family in the studios.

Greg Smalley: Yeah. It’s so good to be here.

Jim: (Laughter).

Greg: It’s such a different season. Yeah…

Erin: Yeah. For sure.

Greg: …As we’re sheltered here at home.

Jim: Yeah.

Erin: It’s great to be here.

Jim: And you’re working from home like most. The broadcast team, the films team, we come in, we keep our distancing. John’s in a different studio, et cetera. But we’ve kind of kept the engine idling here at Focus to keep content going out. And I’m so grateful with your leadership on the marriage side. Every day you guys are coming into the building. Well, used to come into the building.

(Laughter)

Jim: Every day you’re thinking about marriage. OK, so I confessed, Jean and I’s a little, you know – little struggles with this. But I would say the blessings far outweigh the struggles. I mean, Jean and I we’re able to pray together more in the morning, read the Word together. It’s been really good in that way. Spiritually I think we’re doing better than ever. But at about 2, 3 o’clock, I think she does kind of, “Hey, you want to go find a project to do?”

(Laughter)

Greg: Come – go build bird nests.

Jim: But I understand…

Erin: I have a very special one for you.

Jim: Yeah. I understand you two have a couple of stories in that direction. What’s happening for your shelter-in-place experience?

Greg: Well, the hilarious one was day one.

(Laughter)

Greg: So, all excited…

Erin: Didn’t take long.

Greg: …Yeah, to be together. So, we – we went, “Hey, let’s cook the family a meal.” And so, as we started to do that, my job was to brown the ground beef.

Jim: (Laughter).

Greg: And apparently, I was doing that in a way that Erin wanted me to do that. (Laughter)

Jim: Okay. Wait a minute.

Erin: There – there is a right way to ground beef and there is a wrong way and he definitely – Greg had never done that. Well, you had done that before, but…

Greg: I had done that many times.

Erin: …But it wasn’t really as…

Jim: But this isn’t like grinding the beef. It’s just turning it brown. Cooking it, right?

Greg: Thank you. Yes.

Erin: Yeah.

Jim: How do you mess up cooking ground beef? Sorry, Greg.

Erin: Yeah. But I didn’t learn quickly, Jim, that I needed to back off and give him some space…

Jim: (Laughter).

Erin: …Because we were going to be spending a lot of time together and he was going to be really browning a lot of ground beef…

(Laughter).

Erin: …And I needed to let him do it the way he wanted to. (Laughter) I had no idea.

Jim: Okay, here’s the problem. Erin, you gotta – maybe I’m making the same mistake. So how are you supposed to do ground beef? I don’t know.

Erin: I can’t – you know, I can’t really even remember what happened. It was so long ago. (Laughter)

Greg: I think I was letting it cook. She wanted me to start pounding it into it’s little pieces.

Erin: And breaking it into little pieces so it was fully cooked

Jim: Well, yeah. You got to break it into little pieces, Greg. Everybody knows that. (Laughter)

Greg: Oh, I – I know that.

Erin: I didn’t want to serve just this chunk of ground beef.

(Laughter)

Erin: That was like a meat – a pre-made meat loaf.

Greg: I’ve got a system.

Jim: Greg’s never heard this. Erin, you’re right. (Laughter)

Erin: See. There we go. (Laughter)

Jim: Oh, man. Okay, so you’ve both been streaming live on Facebook and doing some marriage help for folks. I think 30 – 35,000 at times have been joining you. You’re also hearing back from people. What are the things that you’re hearing that they’re experiencing?

Greg: I think for a lot of people they’re going, “We’re just around each other all the time.”

Jim: (Laughter).

Greg: Whereas, you know, for most of us, we’re used to going into an office. We’re used to dealing with kids going to school. I mean, all that kind of stuff. And just the fact that we’re around each other 24/7, it just creates opportunity for disagreement. I’ve – we’ve discovered new topics to argue about. Rather, it’s ground beef or the big one is when I come in – you know, if I’ve gone for a walk or something, I’m supposed to leave my shoes out.

Erin: (Laughter).

Greg: Otherwise, Erin takes some spray – I don’t know what she’s spraying me with. And she starts spraying me down. And so…

Jim: Well, you probably bought the spray.

(Laughter).

Erin: Yeah. Yeah.

Greg: I probably did. I don’t know what it is. I’m probably going to be sick from whatever she’s spraying me with.

(Laughter).

Erin: It’s all natural. It’s all good.

Greg: I’m sure.

Erin: It’s true.

Jim: Just make sure she doesn’t spray it on the ground beef.

(Laughter)

Erin: Yeah. That it’s that’s true.

Greg: Spice it up.

Erin: It’s true, though, that many couples are arguing. One is, you know, completely complying. Very rule oriented with what they interpret the limitations to be and there might be the other spouse who’s a little bit more loose as far as what these limitations are. And so, when – it is something that couples are arguing about – you know, “If you go to work, then you come back what are you bringing home with you?” The other thing that we’ve heard a lot about is bringing your work life into your home life. And how do you integrate those two? Because typically, especially for guys, I know you say this, that work is compartmentalized over in one side and then you come home. But now both are together and there’s little people around asking lots of questions and infiltrating, butting into your – your workspace.

Greg: Just the constant interruptions.

Erin: Uh huh.

Greg: Yesterday I’m in a meeting that I’m leading. A bunch of people. So…

Jim: And you’re doing this through teleconferencing, yes?

Greg: All through teleconferencing…

Erin: Yeah.

Greg: …And so as I’m presenting something, our youngest daughter, Annie, she’s 12, she walks up and just oblivious that – that I’m even doing anything. And she goes, “I don’t understand my math homework. I need help.” And I said, well – I said, “Hey, let me – I’ve about a half an hour left. Let me finish this and I’ll come help you.” And she goes, “No. That doesn’t work for me.”

(Laughter)

Jim: I want to finish it now.

Greg: She goes…

Jim: …That’s actually a good problem to have that your child wants to do the homework in front of them. Let me expand on that a little bit. And Erin, you’re mentioning this in one context, which is, you know, maybe moms working in the home rather than working outside of the home. But let’s go through those scenarios where both parents are working. Now they’ve got to do it within the context of their house. One’s in the attic. One’s in the basement.

Erin: (Laughter).

Jim: The kids are running around in between. It’s kind of the new sandwich of life, right?

Erin: Yeah.

Jim: And you’re having to bounce in between these teleconference meetings and sales orders and keeping something going, whatever it might be. So, you’re into these complex problem solving situations. And then like Greg said, you’ve got to disconnect from that, help with homework all of a sudden, and oh, by the way, everybody’s got to eat so let’s do the normal thing and we’ve got to be the cafeteria.

Erin: Mm hmm.

Jim: Either what was at school or at work. You’re now the cafeteria worker. Um, I mean, how do you, one, avoid that exhaustion and just juggle all of these balls?

Erin: There are many different roles that have been added to each of us. And I’m upstairs seeing clients via teletherapy and I come down in between – I have two minutes before the next one is scheduled and I need to be back upstairs and I come down and it’s, you know, questions and “I’m hungry.” And, oh, somebody spilled something. So, I’m cleaning…

Jim: (Laughter).

Erin: And planning for dinner. And it is – it’s juggling a lot. And I have found that it is super important that I take time for me. That I step away. I go for a walk. I get up on – in the morning and exercise. I’m spending time with the Lord. And so, it’s – it really is important that I continually fill up so I can manage the differences in my life right now and the stress.

Jim: I don’t know if…

Erin: Because it is stressful.

Jim: Yeah. I don’t know if you have found this. Jean and I have fallen into this rhythm where the mornings are starting a little slower being in a work-at-home environment. So, we’re, you know, getting up, having a little breakfast together. We’re able to read the word together, pray together. You know, so the engine kind of idles up. By nine o’clock I’m really going and into my routine and the groove. Uh, but man, then it’s not stopping. I mean, I’m looking up, we’re having dinner and then I’m doing some emails and other things. And it’s eight o’clock. I’m going, “Where – what happened?” Are you guys feeling that – that kind of weird time thing as well?

Greg: Oh, for sure. And then in – and staring at a computer screen all day long isn’t helping either. So, there’s a fatigue factor. And we just – I’m so compartmentalized that I need to be able to focus to get certain things done.

Jim: Yeah.

Greg: And – and even yesterday. So, after Annie, you know, yells at me that, “No, I need help now.” And all my colleagues are laughing. Watching how’s he going to parent. I – all of a sudden, my computer I realized was dead. And I’m thinking, “It’s plugged in.” And I look down. It’s because our dog chewed through my computer cord.

Jim: Oh, my.

Erin: (Laughter).

Jim: And survived.

Greg: Yes. And survived. So, I’m just laughing going, “Man, it is so hard.”

Jim: (Laughter).

Greg: And to Erin’s point, I think that’s what I’ve had to learn is what’s a different part of the routine going to look like for me so that I make sure that I’ve got some time to recharge in – and for me…

Jim: (Laughter) No pun intended.

Greg: …It’s getting up at 5 a.m. Oh, that’s true.

Erin: (Laughter) That’s good.

Greg: It’s getting up at 5 a.m. just to be able to work out and have some time by myself to where I get to make the decisions. I’m not having to do math homework at 5:00 a.m. That’s been so different to figure out a new normal around routine in what’s going to give me some rest. And at the same time, what’s going to provide some life.

Jim: Yeah. Well, you guys have just released a new book called Reconnected. And I would think in this coronavirus environment, we’re talking about had in some cases disconnect…

(Laughter)

Jim: …When you’re around each other so much. But we’ll have you back at a later time to talk more in detail about this great new book that you guys have done. Reconnected sounds like the right thing. All let me ask you, all kidding aside, um, one of the issues you cover is communication. And even that I’m going to ask you, Erin, did you say to Greg when the dog chewed through the computer plug – did you say, “Greg, come on, how did you not notice the dog was chewing on your computer plug?”

(Laughter)

Erin: Yes. The dog was lighting up.

Jim: I mean, I would be tempted say that in my own confession here. But did you say that to him?

Erin: You know, I didn’t. And maybe it’s…

Jim: You’re so good.

Erin: …Maybe it’s because I’m a trained counselor, so I went with… (Laughter)

Greg: OK. First – first of all, she was in the attic seeing clients.

Erin: Clients.

(Laughter)

Erin: Get out. Get out. No.

Greg: No one was there. I heard the dog chewing. I thought she was chewing on her toy.

Jim: (Laughter).

Greg: I didn’t think it was my computer cord.

Jim: The dog would say, “I was chewing on my toy. Your computer cord.”

(Laughter)

Greg: Yeah. Exactly.

Erin: But the truth is, Jim, there’s an opportunity there. As Greg came up – I was not seeing a client at the time. But he came into my office upstairs and he said, “The dog chewed through my cord.” And he was upset so I could first meet him with compassion and really heart-talk with him, you know? “Gosh, that’s upsetting. I feel so sorry that that happened. And, you know, gosh…” And then – but I could move into, you know, work-talk and really saying, “What do we need to do? How do we need to fix this?” So first just meeting him from a place of compassion, but then meeting him with, “How can I help?”

Greg: Yeah. And I think that is that is so important as we are all quarantined together.

Erin: Mm hmm.

Greg: One of the things that we’ve realized is that everybody – all of us have experienced huge losses.

Erin: Mm hmm.

Greg: So, for some, it’s been the loss of a job. The loss of income. Could be the loss of health. It could be the loss of a loved one to where they can’t be together to support each other through that.

Jim: Right.

Greg: But I think all of us, though, are going through these small little losses right now. And when we experience a loss, it’s like a punch. It knocks us over.

Jim: Mm.

Greg: And thus, we are impatient. We are quick to react. And so that’s one of the things that probably that Erin and I figured out really quick is that we needed to spend some time just talking to each other and asking like, “What are some of these losses that you’ve gone through?” So that we could just empathize with the other. People typically stuff that stuff.

Erin: Mm hmm.

Greg: They don’t talk about it. And that’s why it’s such an opportunity. You know, when you talked about that silver lining, Erin and I have had such great talks around just the different losses. And the things that – like I’m an introvert, so being quarantined at home, I thought I died in woke up in heaven. I mean, “What? I don’t have to see anybody leave our house. Oh, my goodness.” But for Erin as an extrovert, that’s a huge loss. The coffee dates and the hanging out with friends. Going to Bible study. Those – those…

Erin: Well, even seeing clients face-to-face.

Jim: Yeah.

Erin: And interacting with human beings not through a screen has been a huge adjustment. And as an extrovert, it has been really tough. Granted, there has been some sweet, sweet family connection as you were saying, Jim. And I really – there’s things I’m really going to miss about this time as well, but there has been many, many adjustments. And it’s important just to recognize that we have the ability to really acknowledge those, care for our hearts and then let our spouse in. Let – letting Greg in.

Jim: Yeah. And I want to, you know, turn to the listener, because we know that there’s something like 25 million people who have lost their jobs.

Erin: Wow.

Jim: And so that right there is a big loss. And we have a caring Christian counselors that can talk with you. Give you resources and tools to help you cope with a variety of things. Job loss being one.

Erin: Mmm.

Jim: But do take us up on that and John will give us details here how to contact us.

John: Yeah, we’re a phone call away. If you’d like to talk to a counselor, we’ll set that up. If you’d like to get a copy of this great book by Greg and Erin called Reconnected, we do have that, and we’d be happy to send a copy out to you. Our phone number is 800-A-FAMILY. 800-232-6459 and online we’re at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Hey, Greg and Erin, let me move to another topic. You call it “bids for connection.” Again, in this context, what does that mean?

Greg: You know, when – anytime our spouse or even our kids, – any time they ask something, they request something. Like yesterday with – with Annie. You mean she was frustrated with her math homework. She came down. She was actually making a “bid for connection.” Underneath her bid was, “Dad, I need help.” And although she didn’t handle it great, it’s still a bid. And I had an opportunity – I could have I could have made a hand motion to shush her to leave and get out. Or I took five seconds. I told my colleagues, “Hey, give me a few seconds here.” And I said, “Hey, I really do want to help you. Let me have 30 minutes to finish this up and then I’ll come up and help you.” This is the kind of thing that happens constantly throughout the day. And we have a choice of, “What will we do?” So, when our spouse asks for something or – or makes a comment or shares something, how are we going to respond?

Erin: Because there are several options. We could acknowledge it and say, “Oh, that’s really cool.” Or we can resist it and say, “Well, that’s stupid.”

Jim: (Laughter).

Erin: Or we can completely turn away.

Jim: Yeah. Hey, uh, Greg, you alluded to this, but I want to – I want to resurface it. Where your daughter, she didn’t accept your counteroffer for 30 minutes. You know?

(Laughter)

Jim: “Give me 30 minutes.” “No way. I can’t wait that long.” And I’m – I just want to raise that up to the marriage level. If a bid for connection is made, but it’s not the right time, like the fourth quarter of a Broncos football game…

(Laughter)

Jim: …Or whatever it might be. How does the person receiving the bid handle that wisely? You know, obviously with your daughter, it’s going to be a little different. But I would think with Erin – and Erin, you could speak to this, too. What happens with the rejection of your bid for connection?

Greg: You know, anytime that someone gives a bid. Yeah, we have a choice. And with Annie, I told her this is what I could do. I acknowledged that she gave a bid. “I hear you. I know you want help. I just need 30 minutes.” And it’s the same with Erin. If Erin walks in and I’m in the middle of something, even the fourth quarter of a Broncos game…

Jim: (Laughter).

Greg: …I can always say, “Hey, I hear you. Just give me 10 minutes and this is going to be done. And then I will come find you.” We’re responding to it. I mean, she’s reached out. I’m saying, “I hear you. This is what could work.” And then we can go from there.

Erin: But there’s also moments that we’re not going to handle it well. That we’re going to be irritated and annoyed and, you know, make a snarky comment back. But – and if that happens and you recognize, “Ew. That’s what I did.” The thing that I encourage my – my couples to do is to go back and just say, “Hey, I didn’t handle that well. That wasn’t my – that was my B game. Can we try that again? I want you to know I care, and I want to hear from you.” And so, it’s just revisiting it.

Jim: Yeah. And all this is kind of wrapped around that communication issue. You mentioned four key conversations couples should mention. I think this is a good takeaway right at the end here. What are the four? And highlight a couple of them.

Greg: Yeah, some of the conversations is just naturally occur, one is what we call small-talk. So, it’s just, “Hey, how’s the weather? What do you got going on today?” So, we – we have to do that. We just you know, we’re – we’re gonna have sort of this small-talk. And what it does is it creates a small connection without sort of a deeper emotional vulnerability.

Erin: Yeah. And then there’s work-talk that, you know, we’ve gotta look at schedules and who’s doing what and, you know, dealing with chores and on and on. So, work-talk again happens naturally and often. We spend a lot of time there because we’re trying to navigate life together.

Greg: Yeah, and we have to talk through problems. So, one is just problem-talk. And we’ve got to deal with conflicts that come up and, you know, the dog chewed…

Erin: (Laughter).

Greg: …Through my cord and now I’m mad and so we’ll have to work through that. But I tell you, the thing that we’ve learned is small-talk, work-talk and problem-talk, those will all happen naturally.

Erin: Mm hmm.

Greg: We just got to deal with that stuff. There’s one, though, that can make such a big difference in our marriage that will never happen on its own. We have to be intentional with it.

Erin: Yeah. And that’s the heart-talk. Talking at that deeper, inner life level that we’re really connecting heart-to-heart. Because I know for me personally, that’s something I long for. I long to know what’s going on inside of Greg. And I long to share what’s going on inside of me. I personally did not get married to be stuck in an eternal business meeting with Greg, you know, talking about finances and conflict. What I really long for is to know that he cares that I care and hearing what’s really going on. But that will not happen intentionally unless we pursue it.

Greg: Yeah and what I’ve learned to do with Erin is – I asked her one time. “So, if I’m going to find out more of how you’re feeling and what are you dreaming about, what are you fearful about? Um, I need to – like what would I ask you? Like you – is there some questions that I could ask?” And instantly she goes, “Oh, I got four.” And I went, “Whoa! Well, think about it for a second.” She goes, “I’ll come up with 10. How many do you want if I think about it?” I’m like, “I can handle four.”

Jim: (Laughter).

Greg: And this has made such a big difference for us. She said, “Ask me, ‘How are you doing emotionally? Ask me how things are going between me and the kids not from a business standpoint, relationally. How are things going between me and the kids?”‘ As I said, as an extrovert, friendships are so important to her. So, she said, “Ask me, how are things going between me and my friends? And then asked me, ‘What’s one thing that God’s been teaching me lately?’” And so, I have memorized those. And so, when we’re maybe at the dinner table, when we’re, you know, driving some someday when we get to go back to a restaurants or go to a theater, you know, on the drive. I mean, those are the opportunities where I can ask her those because it’s all about staying current. You know, Erin is constantly changing and if I’m not pursuing her just to find out what’s really going on on the inside, I may miss something. Something might be going on that – that I’m not aware of.

Jim: Yeah.

Greg: I love – my favorite group, Journey. Remember the old group Journey. They have a song called “Faithfully” and in there they use the words, “I get the joy of rediscovering you.” And that’s the goal. That – I want to rediscover Erin over and over and over. And the only way that’s ever going to happen is if I intentionally ask her kind – those kinds of questions.

Jim: Yeah, let me ask. Maybe the hard question, why is it within marriage that we tend to trigger each other so easily? We’re kind of tolerant of people outside that intimate relationship and we’ll take a few blows, “That’s OK. That’s just how George acts.” Or, you know, “That’s just what Susie does.” Uh, but when it comes through this relationship, husband and wife, we tend to have very short fuses. We light off quickly when we’re triggered with our spouse. I guess that is the question, “Why are we so temperamental with the closest relationship we have on this earth?”

Erin: Well, you’re saying exactly the reason that it is the closest relationship we have on this side of heaven and it’s vulnerable. There’s a lot at risk. “What if I’m rejected?” There’s much more there then that’s at risk with a coworker or a friend. You know, we can give grace there, but it’s looking at, “This impacts me more. This is this is vulnerable. This could hurt me more.” And so, it’s recognizing that we do have the opportunity to give grace here as well. And we’re much more likely to give grace outside the home, especially in this season. Jim, it’s so important that we utilize giving grace, but we’re only going to give grace from a place of fullness and from God’s grace that’s given to us. So, it’s important that we are connecting with Him each and every day, knowing that our spouse will more than likely preserve buttons, because at – with this level of connection, there’s a high probability.

Greg: He won’t know how to ground beef properly.

(Laughter)

Jim: Oooh. A sore spot.

(Laughter)

Erin: But… Yeah. But when that happens, recognizing I have control of me, and I can choose how I react to that or I step back and then I can give an open-hearted response to that. I get to choose. And, you know, then the communication and coming together and really talking heart to heart about what went on is key.

Jim: Yeah. No, I really appreciate that. And I think, you know, that’s where a lot of people live. We don’t extend grace to the person that’s the closest to us.

Erin: Mm hmm.

Jim: It’s kinda like where Jesus said, “Love your neighbor.” Well, guess what? In this context, particularly with sheltering-in-place, your neighbor is your spouse. So, love your spouse.

(Laughter)

Erin: Yes. Your closest neighbor is right there. Yeah.

Jim: Well, it’s so good. And there is so much here. And I’m looking forward to coming back and talking more about Reconnected. Maybe in a different context and not a coronavirus context. And really, let me turn to the listeners. This is good stuff. One thing I’d like to do, John, is go ahead and post those four discussion topics online. So, if you want to see those again, go to the website to get that. And I didn’t get to this question, but I would assume the answer from Greg and Erin would be what’s, you know, one thing a couple could do today to change that trajectory? It’s go to those four discussion points…

Erin: Mm hmm.

Jim: …And put them in to practice. And that will begin to change that relationship and your outcome and also that extension of grace to the one you love. So, Greg and Erin, thank you so very much for being with us. We so appreciate it. You guys are so gifted and you’re doing a wonderful job here at Focus on the Family helping marriages in this country and literally around the world. Thank you.

Greg: Thank you.

Erin: Thank you.

John: And we’ll encourage you to get in touch with us. You can look for those four topics for every marriage to really consider having on a regular basis, along with the full book by Greg and Erin Smalley called Reconnected. We mentioned earlier we’d be happy to set up a time for you to talk to a counselor if you’re really struggling and kind of in a dead end spot and not sure how to kind of restore the relationship to what it was. All of this available at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Or call 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459.

Jim: And John, as we do so often, if folks can help us here and do ministry with us by giving a gift of any amount, we’ll send you a copy of Greg and Erin’s great book Reconnected as our way of saying thank you. I know it’s easy to push one button on your computer, especially being sheltered in home, but those proceeds don’t go to help keep marriages together, save a baby’s life and do the great things that we’re doing together here at Focus. So, think about that. And if you can’t afford it, we’ll trust that others will cover the costs of that. If your marriage needs that help, call us. Reach out to us. We’ll give you the book to help your marriage.

John: We want to help. And we’re a phone call away. It’s 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Donate and get the resources you need when you call 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY or at our website. Well, coming up tomorrow, we’re gonna be talking with Dr. Norm Wright. He’s been our guest before. He’s going to help families like yours navigate grief and loss during this coronavirus pandemic.

Teaser:

Dr. H. Norman Wright: But this is part of the problem. We like to feel as though we’re in control of our life, that we can handle everything. And we’ve been taught in a very dramatic way recently that it doesn’t work like that.

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