Spouse: Well, I think the most important letter in the alphabet for marriage is the letter F for forgiveness.
Spouse 2: I think the most important letter is A, and I think the word that goes with that is acceptance.
Spouse 3: I think the most important letter is S, because S stands for selflessness.
Spouse 4: Most important letter is P for prayer.
Spouse 5: I think L because listening is so important in a marriage, to be able to sit down and hear what your spouse has to say.
John Fuller: Well, what do you think? Uh, what letter of the alphabet, uh, do you have for your marriage? Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we’re gonna be exploring some simple ways that you can really revolutionize your relationship with your spouse. I’m John Fuller and we’re so glad you’ve joined us.
Jim Daly: It’s good nobody said F.
John: (laughs)
Jim: I think we’d all go, “What?” But it could be friendship. That’s a good one.
John: There you go.
Jim: Not a letter grade like failure, right?
Tori Benham: (laughs)
Jim: Uh, but, you know, the longer I’ve been married, the more I realize that it’s not the big things that destroy marriage. Those things do, whether it’s addiction, infidelity, you know, those big things that can happen. But over time, all the little things can add up to drifting apart and no longer being in love with each other.
John: Mm.
Jim: So today we wanna cover those A-to-Z ideas. And it gives us a simple framework with our guests to kind of better understand what to think about when you’re in that moment with your spouse, and what you need to do to preserve and grow and deepen your love in your marriage.
John: Mm-hmm. And Jason and Tori Benham are back with us today, and, uh, they’ve developed a list of 30, uh, different, simple, uh, effective ideas that couples can use to strengthen their relationship. And these are things you can start doing today. Uh, so the Benham’s were here last year, and we covered just a few items from those 30. And, uh, Jason and Tori are relationship coaches and speakers and authors. And they’ve got a podcast, it’s great. You should listen. It’s called Beauty in Battle. And the list they’ve developed is, well, more or less based on their book, Marriage A to Z. It’s got more than 26. It’s got 30 ways, uh, 30 days.
Jim: There’s four more letters.
John: Indeed.
Jim: (laughs)
John: To relational transformation. You can learn more about the Benham’s in this great little book at our website.
Jim: Jason and Tori, welcome back. It’s good to finish the alphabet with you.
John: (laughs)
Tori: Thank you. So good to be here.
Jim: (laughs) Reminds me of third grade.
John: Yeah.
Jim: A, B, C, D.
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: Do you guys still have to sing the alphabet to get to the letter you need?
Jason Benham: No.
Jim: (laughs)
Jason: But, you know, here’s the crazy thing.
Jim: Do you ever do that?
Tori: Yes.
Jim: A, B, C, D, E, F, G.
Tori: Oh, all the time.
Jason: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Jim: Yeah. Yeah. G.
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: Okay, that’s the one.
Jason: I had the idea for this book and I said, “Okay, let’s do 30 principles.”
Jim: (laughs)
Jason: Which would be a principle a day for a month, 30 principles-
Jim: Yeah.
Jason: … to marriage transformation. I was like, “And I’ll follow the alphabet.” Now, I got an 820 on my SAT.
Tori: (laughs)
John: (laughs)
Jason: Then I decided to count how many letters (laughs) were in the alphabet, and I realized there was only 26.
John: (laughs)
Tori: (laughs)
Jason: So we just added a few at the end.
Tori: A couple bonus letters.
John: You plussed it.
Jim: I think that’s awesome.
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: (laughs)
Jim: I love that. But you could, you go with AA and BB.
Jason: Yeah. Yeah, you can.
Jim: And that’s what you do.
Tori: (laughs)
Jason: That’s exactly what I did. Yeah.
Jim: Well, it is fun. It, you know, the, the one I wanted to start with today, and again, if people miss it, they can go to the archives, get the app for the phone and you can listen to it that way or go to the website. But, uh, let’s start with Z.
John: (laughs)
Jason: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Jim: Just to go right to the most difficult of all letters.
Jason: Yeah, yeah.
Jim: What’d you come up with Z?
Jason: Well, you know, I remember looking at that and I thought, “Well, where am I gonna get Z?” And I looked up the word, ’cause I was looking for something that involved humor, and I looked up the word zanyism.
Tori: Hmm.
Jim: Okay.
Jason: So like zany.
Jim: Uh-huh.
Jason: And, uh, and it’s all about humor. And I started talking to Tori and I was like, “You know, one of the things that has helped us a lot in marriage, specifically when it comes to conflict-”
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jason: “… is having a little bit of a sense of humor.”
Tori: So true.
Jason: And, uh-
Jim: Yeah, let me test that. Tori, is that true?
Tori: (laughs) It is absolutely true.
Jim: (laughs) Did you appreciate those funny jokes right at the heat of battle with, uh-
Tori: No.
Jim: … your hubby?
Tori: That, yeah, no, you ha-
Jim: (laughs) Timing’s everything, yes.
Tori: Timing is everything.
Jim: Yeah.
Tori: But we have learned that you don’t have to take yourself so serious. And the biggest problem that we ran into at the beginning of our relationship was taking things too seriously, especially for me. I was, um, I just took things really seriously. And then as we began to laugh about things, and then we kind of, you know, have our own little sense of humor over… We, we have, like, lines from movies that we now break the ice with. When things get a little bit heated, we have our little lines that we’re like, “You know what? It’s really not that big of a deal.” And we can just make, make fun of each other.
Jim: That’s good.
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: Do you have a little movie line example for us?
Jason: I used one this morning.
Jim: Okay, that’s perfect. (laughs)
Jason: Uh, from Home Alone 2–
Jim: Yeah.
Jason: … when he’s in his, uh, he’s in bed. And a guy is there scooping him ice cream and then he says, uh, the guy says, “Would you like another scoop?” And he’s like, “Hey, I’m not driving.”
Jim: (laughs)
Jason: And then he puts it in there.
Tori: Yeah, yeah.
Jason: And, you know, we weren’t in a fight or anything-
Jim: I like it.
Jason: … but I’m like, “I’m not driving.” You know, so-
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: Let’s get another scoop.
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: It is funny though, little things like that, and we always encourage couples, “Hey, find a show that you can watch together that makes you laugh. Like find a, a comedian that makes you laugh together, some movies.”
Jim: That’s good.
Jason: “And pick a few of those lines.”
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: “And then at any moment when things get a little heated-”
Jim: Hmm.
Jason: … maybe pull out a line or two and then just be, you know, have a good laugh with each other.”
Jim: Yeah.
Jason: It helps a lot in marriage.
Jim: Yeah.
Tori: Yeah. It’s kind of just a reminder, it’s, it’s okay for us to laugh. (laughs) One of the ones that I think about all the time is the one from Night at the Museum. There, have you guys watched-
Jim: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Tori: … the Night at the Museum? And there’s the guy Brendan and there’s a scene with him and it’s just the funniest scene. At one point he looks at, who’s-
Jason: Uh-uh.
Tori: Who’s the actor?
Jason: Ben Stiller.
Tori: Ben Stiller and he says, “And you know what? Be nice to people.” And we say that to each other all the time-
Jim: Yeah.
Tori: … when things are like-
Jim: Be nice to people.
Tori: … you know, we’re not being that real, real nice and things are getting, like, a little heated. We’re like, “You know what? Be nice to people.” (laughs)
John: (laughs)
Jim: We love that movie ’cause his, the name, the actor, the character name is Daley.
Jason: (laughs)
Tori: Oh, oh, that’s right. Yeah.
Jim: That is Larry Daley.
Jason: Larry Daley.
Tori: Yeah, that’s right. (laughs)
Jim: We like the Darth Vader scene-
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: Yeah.
Jim: … where he’s going, “What are you, asthmatic?”
Tori: Yeah. (laughs)
Jason: Oh, yeah. (laughs)
Tori: Yes.
Jim: I lost it at that point.
Tori: So funny.
Jim: Okay, we got Z. Now M, moving toward your mate. This may be when you look at this wonderful little quick read, really-
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … Marriage A to Z: 30 Days to Relational Transformation. I mean, this thing, it’s like a pocket reference thing.
Tori: Yes.
Jason: We made it a gift book on purpose.
Tori: Throw it in your purse.
Jim: But you look at moving for M, moving toward your mate. Okay, when you’re having a disagreement, I know folks are gonna, you know, send us a note saying, “I never argue with m-” That is awesome.
Jason: Yeah.
Jim: Way to go.
Jason: Good for you.
Jim: Most of us will have some disagreements.
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And the most difficult time to move toward your mate-
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … is at the, the moment of disagreement-
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … that’s, like, crazy.
Jason: Oh, yeah.
Jim: So how do you, how do you do that emotionally-
Tori: Hmm.
Jason: We-
Jim: … when you’re kind of at odds with each other?
Jason: Here’s the crazy thing. Dr. John Gottman, foremost researcher on all things marriage. He said, uh, out of 50 years of studying marriages, he said the ones that are the most healthy are the ones where, when conflict happens, people move toward their mate. And not just conflict. If I reach out to Tori and I’m like, gonna go grab her hand, she responds positively to that and, you know, grabs my hand. If I put my arm around her, she kind of snuggles up into my arm. So when I’m moving toward her, she moves toward me. The difficult part is when you’re at odds with each other.
Tori: Hmm.
Jason: And that’s why even science has come out now, research has come out now that shows that, like, 20 seconds of physical touch, like, just a hug can reset things emotionally for you. So when things get a little heated, sometimes Tori and I will reach out, we’ll kinda grab hands, hold hands a little bit, or we might force a hug in that moment and you’re moving toward your mate.
Jim: (laughs)
Jason: It really does reset things.
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: Yeah, I love the forced hug.
Tori: Yes.
Jim: I’m just laughing at that.
Tori: Force hug, yeah.
Jim: (laughs)
Tori: Uh, years ago I was certified as an emotional intelligent coach. And I learned so much during that season of just self-awareness. The first quadrant of emotional intelligence is self-awareness.
Jim: Yeah.
Tori: And one of the things that I learned about myself is that I move away from Jason in conflict, and that was very eye-opening to me because I actually, because I wasn’t aware of it.
Jim: Really?
Tori: I wasn’t able to-
Jim: I would think that’s normal-
Tori: Right.
Jim: … for all of us. That’s the normal reaction like, “Okay, I’m going to a different room.”
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: She-
Jim: “I’m laying on the opposite side of the bed facing the-”
Jason: She really moved away from me.
Tori: Yeah. (laughs)
Jim: (laughs)
Jason: It was like, “Get away.”
Tori: But for me, I wasn’t even self-aware. I wasn’t aware enough to know that it was happening, that every time there was a conflict my initial reaction was to move away, to get quiet, to distance myself. And as I began to learn, “Oh my goodness, this is not working for our relationship.” I began to learn how to move into that next quadrant of emotional intelligence which is self-management.
Jim: Ah.
Tori: So now that I know that I’m doing this, what can I do about it? And so I began to practice, okay, doing the very opposite of the thing that I wanna do in that moment, which is to pull away, to distance myself, to get quiet, kind of cold shoulder him and to actually take a step in the other direction and to move towards him, do something that’s uncomfortable, right? And this is a part of marriage that’s so important that we grow in flexibility, right? Like, it is not… Like, for me that, I was very inflexible in that area.
Jim: Hmm.
Tori: And so I had to do what we do when we’re inflexible physically, and I had to lean in and stretch and do something uncomfortable to grow in flexibility. So, that really was a practice that I began to do years ago, and it was really helpful for our relationship.
Jason: It’s not to say though that in the moment of battle you can’t pull away just for 20 minutes or whatever-
Tori: Right.
Jason: … ’cause, you know-
Jim: It might be helpful. (laughs)
Jason: … flooding is a thing.
Tori: Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Jason: Flooding is a thing and the 20-minute rule is, it takes sometimes 20 minutes of, you know, I’m gonna go in line-
Jim: Chill time.
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: … chill and then come back together. The idea is don’t stay away.
Tori: Right.
Jim: Yeah.
Jason: Come back together and move toward each other even when you don’t want to.
John: I appreciate that clarification because I don’t think I’m alone in this.
Tori: Mm-hmm.
John: There was a moment where we were having some words and I wanted to fix the problem, and so I moved in to hug her-
Tori: Hmm.
John: … and she said, “Not now.”
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: Yeah. Yeah.
John: And that was good emotional intelligence of her own wellbeing.
Tori: Yes. Yes.
John: And it set a boundary.
Tori: Yes.
John: And I was kind of wounded. I’m like-
Jason: Mm-hmm.
John: … “Can’t we just hug and get over this?”
Jason: Right.
Tori: Yes.
John: So there has to be space.
Tori: Yes.
John: And I like the 20-minute rule.
Jason: Yeah.
Tori: Yes.
John: That’s, that’s good because sometimes we guys want to have a simple fix.
Jim: Let me ask you, in terms of love language. You know, we’ve had Gary Chapman here where all well-
Jason: Yeah, he’s awesome.
Jim: … prepared in the love language.
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Uh, physical touch is one.
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And that’s kind of maybe not your language-
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … Tori, but you were expressing it if you moved in-
Tori: Yeah, exactly.
Jim: … uh, rather than pulling back.
Tori: Yes.
Jim: The one that you do possess that we know about is really the idea of quality time.
Tori: Yes.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: So how did that work when you’re going well and doing well as a couple-
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: … it’s probably easy, but when it’s a little harder-
Tori: Yes.
Jim: … how do you get quality time-
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: … with Jason?
Tori: Well, when Jason and I, when we first got married that was my primary love language, and Jason’s was not. Uh, and so we talked about it and Jason became aware of that love language, and I became aware of his. And you can tell him the story of how-
Jason: Yeah.
Tori: … the Lord really changed your love language through you pursuing me through mine.
Jason: Yeah. And you know, it’s crazy ’cause Dr. Gary Chapman, he’s a hero of ours.
Jim: Oh, yeah.
Tori: Hmm.
Jason: We love him. You know my primary love language when we first got married: physical touch, words of affirmation-
Tori: Hmm.
Jason: … which is most of the guys out there.
Jim: Yeah.
Jason: Bottom of my list was quality time and, um, gifts. And, uh, but I tell couples all the time that, and Gary Thomas, I think, is the one that coined this. “God is not just your Father, He’s your Father-in-Law.”
Tori: Hmm.
Jim: (laughs) That’s good.
Jason: And can you imagine how much your Father-in-Law-
Jim: Yeah.
Jason: … is gonna help you when He sees you loving His son or daughter-
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jason: … in a way that might not be your natural way? So I knew hers was quality time. So for 20 plus years, I was spending quality time with her even in those times where I didn’t want to.
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jason: Well, do you know I took that test again? ‘Cause Dr. Chapman came up with it online a year ago and, you know, we’ve been married for 25 years a few weeks ago. So I’m 24 years into marriage and I took that test again. You wanna know what my number one love language was?
Jim: Hmm.
Jason: Quality time.
Jim: Wow.
Jason: That my father-in-law-
Tori: Hmm.
Jason: … God, transformed my heart.
John: Uh-huh.
Jason: And he can do that to anybody. There are probably some people listening right now that think, you know, “I can’t, I’ll never be that, I can’t do that for my husband or my wife or whatever.” Do it.
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jason: And when, you know, the essential element of love is sacrifice. And when you sacrifice, God, your Father, who is also your Father-in-Law, will bring the transformation that’s needed in your heart-
John: Hmm.
Jason: … and your mind, and your life and He’ll transform your relationship.
Jim: So how did you move toward physical touch?
Tori: Okay. This is really interesting.
Jason: Yeah, explain that one.
Tori: I feel like it’s so important that you value each love language, right? That there has, you have to be able to see each of them and see value in each of them. And, um, I remember a time where I began to learn the value of physical touch. I was listening to a podcast on neuroscience, and they were talking about how it regulates the body, how it’s so important to have physical touch.
Jason: Hmm.
Tori: And that when you’re holding your spouse’s hand that your body’s actually being regulated. And sometimes when you’re highly anxious and you just hold somebody’s hand or you give them a 20 second hug, it actually regulates your nervous system. And so, I actually began to value that love language, the love language of physical touch, which I didn’t really value before. I thought it was stupid. I felt like it was always leaning in one direction that I didn’t wanna go all the time, right? Like, there was just…I didn’t really value it, but as I began to value it and to reach for Jason and to think, “You know, this is really good for me. Oh wow, I actually do feel my body regulating,” and I actually now have become a physical touch girl as, as well because-
Jim: Yeah.
Tori: … I just kinda leaned into something that I didn’t think that I liked and began to value it.
Jim: That is good and healthy. Yeah.
Jason: Speaking of physical touch-
Jim: Yeah.
Jason: … can I say something real quick, spirit of full disclosure. When they were talking about the favorite letters, uh, earlier at the beginning of the show-
Jim: Yeah.
Jason: … and the guy said S. “Selfless” was not the first word that came in my mind.
Tori: (laughs)
John: (laughs) The letter S stood for something else?
Jim: And neither there is that kind of physical touch.
Tori: Go figure. (laughs)
Jason: That’s true.
Jim: What Gary’s talking about is, you know, just the warmth of touch.
Jason: That’s right.
Tori: Yes.
Jim: You know, hand on shoulder, fingers through hair.
Tori: Yes.
Jason: Yeah.
Jim: … whatever it might be, hugs.
Jason: Thank you for that correction.
Jim: Yeah, sorry.
Tori: (laughs)
Jason: (laughs)
Jim: Well, if he were here, I’m defending Gary.
Jason: Yeah, you are.
Jim: ‘Cause every guy goes, “What’s your love language?” “Physical touch.”
Jason: “Physical touch.”
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And he has to say, “It’s not that.”
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: Yeah. Right.
Tori: Yeah, exactly.
Jim: So we’ve heard it a few times.
John: We have, yeah, you have.
Jim: But hey, let me ask you, D for dominion. Dominion seems like-
Jason: Hmm.
Jim: … such a King James word.
Jason: Yeah. Yes.
Tori: (laughs)
Jim: I mean, dominion.
Jason: It’s a beautiful word.
Jim: It feels even like we shouldn’t say that word.
Jason: Yeah. Right.
Tori: Yes.
Jim: It’s the “D word.”
Tori: Hmm.
Jim: Dominion. What does it mean?
Jason: Well, dominion was our very first blessing that God gave to Adam and Eve in the Garden. You know, it’s, “Have dominion over the garden.” And then He’s, “Be fruitful and multiply,” right? So dominion is taking authority for the place where God has put you, and you need to have authority in your marriage.
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jason: You know, as husbands, our relationships with God is tied to our relationship with our wife. We see that in the New Testament where God’s like, “I’m not even listening to your prayers because of the way that you’re treating the wife of your youth.”
John: Hmm.
Jason: So God is like, “You need to have dominion in every area of your life.”
Tori: Hmm.
Jason: And the primary one is right there with God’s daughter. The primary is right there with God’s son. And so that’s what we’re talking about, dominion. You know, responsibility and authority go hand in hand.
Jim: Yeah.
Jason: That, you know, authority is the right to use power. And the key to keeping your authority is staying in the place of your responsibility. Where was Adam when Eve was conversing with the serpent? He was standing right next to her-
John: Hmm.
Jason: … because she ate the fruit and turned and gave it to him. Well, he was not exercising dominion in that moment.
Tori: Hmm.
Jason: He should have had dominion in the relationship and dominion over the snake, stepped in front and goes, “Hey, when I named you, you didn’t talk. Why are you talking to her?”
Tori: Hmm.
Jason: “If you’re gonna talk to her, you’re gonna come through me first,” right? But he didn’t exercise dominion-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jason: … and therefore he lost his authority.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Jason: So that’s what we’re talking about for dominion. Take dominion in your relationship.
John: Hmm.
Jim: Yeah, that’s good. I think it’s directive.
Tori: Hmm.
John: Yeah. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and today our guests are Tori and Jason Benham and we’re talking about their great little book, Marriage A to Z: 30 Days to Relational Transformation. And, uh, we’ll encourage you to stop by our website to get a copy of it and that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
And, uh, continuing this thought, Jason, you had a story about playing baseball that related to this that I thought was kinda interesting.
Jason: Yeah.
Jim: We would have thought that, the baseball player.
John: Yeah, player.
Jason: Right? I remember being eight years old and I looked on the schedule, and we had to play and we just went by colors back then.
Jim: (laughs)
Jason: We didn’t have, like, cool names, you know. I’m playing baseball in little league, and we had to play the red team. And on the red team was a guy named Brent Murphy, and Brent Murphy was the most feared pitcher in all of the world.
Jim: He had a 75 mile an hour softball.
Jason: No, he threw a thousand miles an hour.
Jim: (laughs)
Tori: (laughs)
Jason: And the ball was on fire when he threw it.
Jim: Yes, smoking.
Jason: And nobody wanted to hit against him and I was so scared. And when we got to the field, I saw him out there warming up and my heart was just pounding, and I was, like, the third hole hitter. I was a good hitter. And, uh, first guy gets up, he strikes out. Next guy is up and I’m on deck and my heart is pounding and I’m just like, “Uh, this is not gonna work.” So I faked a sickness.
John: Hmm.
Jason: I walked over to my coach at third base and I was like, “I think my, my stomach is hurting. I think I’m sick.” And he goes, “Oh, by all means, go sit down.” And then I go and so I don’t get to hit, and I go and I sit down on the bench. And I look over at my dad, and my dad knows exactly what I did. I wimped out.
John: Hmm.
Jason: I didn’t take dominion in that moment, and I became a spectator in a game I was made to play. You know what? I think there are a lot of spouses that are spectators in a game that they should be playing. You gotta get out there on the field. And you know what? Fear is gonna present itself, but courage isn’t a thing if fear doesn’t first show up.
John: Hmm.
Jason: We don’t, you can’t be courageous if fear doesn’t show up. So you gotta face your fear, whatever that is. If you gotta go deep into your history and talk about some things you hadn’t talked with your spouse about, if you’ve got to move forward toward your spouse when you don’t want to, face those fears and then ultimately you’ll not find yourself spectating, but you’ll actually be in the game playing and you can play to win.
John: Hmm.
Jim: Yeah. I give you kudos for saying that. (laughs)
John: Yeah.
Jim: I’m sitting here going, “Okay, that’s gutsy.”
Tori: Hmm.
Jason: (laughs)
Jim: For a guy to say “I wimped out” ’cause, uh-
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: I did.
Jim: … if we were a little younger, I’d be all over you.
Tori: (laughs)
Jason: Yeah. Thank you.
Jim: Like, “What are you talking about?”
Tori: (laughs)
Jim: But it’s true. It’s a good, it’s a good analysis-
Jason: Yeah.
Jim: … or a good analogy for how-
Jason: Yeah.
Jim: … we do that emotionally as well.
Jason: Said from the guy who can’t even throw a fastball anymore-
Tori: Hmm.
Jason: … ’cause you had rotator cuff surgery twice.
Jim: Yeah, thanks. My rotator… Yeah I’m coming back.
Tori: (laughs)
Joh Fuller: You’re becoming a southpaw.
Jim: You watch out, you watch out.
John: He’s been practicing “lefty’s.”
Jim: Tori, you have to represent all women here at the table ’cause you are the woman at the table.
Tori: Okay.
Jason: Yeah, you are.
Jim: But when you, when it comes to affection-
Tori: Hmm.
Jim: … now we’re gonna move a little bit in the other direction-
Tori: Hmm.
Jim: … or in a further direction of physical touch. But when we’re talking about affection-
Tori: Hmm.
Jim: … uh, you also mentioned that, um, instead of waiting for the right mood. We’ve got to be available-
Tori: Hmm.
Jim: … both husband and wife. The shoe’s sometimes on the other foot with this, so I don’t want to make that-
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … a gender stereotype. But most often it’s the man who is thinking affection a little more deeply.
Tori: Right.
Jim: But speak to that issue of being available-
Tori: Hmm.
Jim: … both ways, husband and wife being able to-
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … um, send the signal-
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: … of affection is desired.
Tori: Yes.
Jim: How do we get into a healthier place? I’m telling you, and I, people watching-
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and listening know this, this is like the number one issue in marriage.
Tori: Hmm.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Negotiating physical intimacy.
Tori: Wow. Yeah.
Jim: Um, it’s just, it becomes a problem-
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: … for some reason, I think the enemy of our soul works incredible mischief-
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: … in this area.
John: That’s good.
Tori: Yeah. I totally can attest to that. Um, I think it’s a mindset. I think that our mindset has to be right. And I think that sometimes, I think for women, um, I know for myself, that I kind of grew up thinking that affection and intimacy, and to be blunt, sex, was for the man. And I did not, um, I didn’t see it as something that was a blessing to me. And so that had to change. That mindset had to change that God created intimacy. He created affection for me and for Jason. And as I began to see the blessing of it and to receive the gift that it was for me, I was able to give it in a, in a better, more healthy way. But I think it was definitely a mindset, and I also think that as women we go through seasons of childbearing and where we are, you know, “touched out.”
Jim: Yeah. Yeah.
Jason: Yeah.
Tori: I call it “touched out” where kids are touching and clawing and, you know, I have a picture of one of our kids, their hand is under the bathroom door. I said, “I can’t escape,” right?
Jason: (laughs)
Tori: Like, you can’t escape.
Jason: Yes.
Tori: And, um-
Jason: Yeah.
Tori: … and so I think there are seasons of that where you start to devalue the, um, intimacy and the things that overwhelm you.
Jason: Yeah.
Tori: And I think that for me, I had to get to a place where, where it’s like, “Okay, my mindset is getting a little bit off here. I’m not seeing it as a blessing. I’m not seeing it as a good thing.” And then to be able to, I think that we also, women, need time to do that, to get into the right mindset. You know, that it can’t just be expected that we can just drop everything. Like, I think a man’s brain is a little bit more compartmentalized.
Jim: You think?
Jason: Yeah.
Jim: (laughs)
Tori: (laughs) Yeah. Things are kind of in boxes and he can go from this to this in 0.5 seconds. Whereas a woman, everything’s a little bit more connected. It takes us a little bit more time to get there. So men, if they can be patient with us, for us to make that transfer and for us to get into the mindset that we need to-
Jason: And you know, I’ve heard Tori counsel a lot of women during this time where she’s like, “Okay, you gotta change your mindset.”
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jason: “And then you need some time to yourself. And with that time, what you need to be focusing on is appreciation for your husband.”
Tori: Yeah, that’s so true.
Jason: “Actually start appreciating him.”
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jason: “Like, notice the things that-”
Jim: ‘Cause that’s the doorway for a woman.
Jason: Yeah.
Tori: Yes.
Jim: It, it’s not like men.
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I mean, like, men, it’s purely the physical thing. And I don’t mean to make it simplistic and you send me a note and, you know, all that.
Jason: Yeah.
Jim: But realistically, generally, that’s it. Women need a different type of framework-
Tori: Yes.
Jim: … to say, “Okay, this helps me to get there.”
Tori: Right. Yes.
Jim: And that’s, you know, connection-
Tori: Yes.
Jim: … and emotional attachment.
Jason: Yeah.
Tori: Yes.
Jim: And we’re, you’re blowing our mind like, “What?”
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: “What? How does that connect with that?” (laughs)
Jason: And a guy-
Tori: Yes.
Jim: But it does.
Tori: Yes.
Jason: And the, and they, and we need to understand that for a woman and a husband, it’s not wrong for her to talk about rewarding her husband if he can help her get to that place.
Jim: Yeah.
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jason: For her to say, “Hey, listen, if you can actually, like, vacuum the floor and then-
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jason: “… get all the kids ready for bed, give me some time-
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jason: “… and then later tonight…” Like, that’s not manipulation, that’s motivation.
Jim: Yeah.
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jason: You’re gonna find him very motivated to-
Jim: (laughs)
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: … to do those things, and that is a very good and healthy… I mean, God is a rewarder-
Jim: Yeah.
Jason: … of us.
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jason: It talks all throughout scripture how He rewards.
Jim: Well, well, and the other thing, like you guys say, be out there and use it humorously. I mean-
Jason: Yeah.
Tori: Right.
Jim: … you know? Identify it, have fun with it.
Tori: Yes. Yeah.
Jason: Yeah.
Tori: Exactly.
Jim: I’m gonna be vacuuming tonight.
Tori: Yes.
Jim: So-
John: (laughs)
Jason: Yeah.
Jim: And you could say-
Tori: Got anymore chores for me?
Jim: … well, it’s gonna take dishes and laundry-
Tori: (laughs)
Jason: (laughs)
Jim: … on top of it or whatever it might be.
Tori: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Jim: Let’s move into K, kill the crazy-
Jason: Yes.
Tori: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … with a K, crazy with a K.
Jason: That’s right.
Jim: Speak to kill the crazy, what is the crazy and how do we kill it?
Jason: What I’m talking about is if you know that you do something that annoys your spouse, stop it.
Jim: (laughs) Oh, man.
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: Like what-
Jim: Dagger through the heart right there. Okay.
Jason: Why do we need to go any further on this?
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: It’s not like, “Oh, this is just who I am.” If you know that it’s something that’s really bothersome to your spouse, then quit.
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: Give me an example.
Jason: Bad breath.
Tori: (laughs)
Jim: Well, how do you quit that?
Jason: Well, you, you chew gum.
Jim: Okay.
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: You know, like if you’re-
Jim: Do you have one that’s a little more manageable? (laughs)
John: (laughs)
Jason: Yeah, yeah. But whatever it is, um, using the restroom and the seat always, you know, stays up.
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: Okay. I’m doing really well at that one.
Jason: Okay.
Tori: Good job.
Jason: It’s like, okay, you’re done. You’re guy.
Jim: I’m a getting a gold star for that.
Tori: Yes.
Jason: I tell you what, do her a favor and put the seat down.
Jim: Yes.
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: You know, or-
Jim: Never thought it would get to that, right?
John: Well, here we are.
Jason: Or if you’re still in junior high and you don’t raise the seat up before you use the restroom-
Tori: Yeah.
Jason: … wipe it off.
John: Yeah.
Tori: (laughs)
Jason: Like, it’s little things.
Tori: Yeah.
Jim: But Tori, that communicates, “I see you, I care about you.” I mean, it sounds-
Tori: It does. It absolutely does.
Jim: … silly, and that’s, like, a minor example.
Tori: Yes. Yes, it does.
Jim: But you know it-
Tori: It communicates, “I care, I see you, I’m listening.” I love the quote that we have for this chapter and it’s, uh, what is, it says, um, “Some people don’t know they’re being annoying, which is even more annoying.”
Jason: (laughs)
Tori: And that is so true, right?
Jim: Right.
Tori: Like, the awareness is so important. Some- you don’t know you’re being annoying, which makes it even more annoying. So I think that the awareness of bringing awareness to it, it’s like, “Oh, this really drives him crazy. Maybe, uh, there’s something I can do about this.”
Jason: Yeah.
Tori: Case in point is the seat, toilet seat. That was something that Jason- and the middle of the night is the worst because it’s dark.
Jason: Hmm.
Jim: Jason.
Tori: I don’t turn the lights on.
Jim: Jason.
Jason: I know.
Tori: And so I was like, “It’s really getting bothersome.” And he just couldn’t remember in the middle of the night to, to put it down. And then I was like, “Oh, man, babe, you did it again, and I almost fell in the toilet.” (laughs)
Jim: And I guess there you have it. Uh, getting to the basics here on Focus on the Family by falling in the toilet. Uh, we don’t normally tackle tough topics like this, but-
John: You know, seat management is an important-
Jim: (laughs)
John: … topic in many households. It’s very serious.
Jim: Well, it starts, like, at about one and a half, right?
John: (laughs)
Jim: You gotta get that toddler up there. But, uh, let me tell you, seat management, that’s pretty funny and what a great conversation with Jason and Tori today.
It was so practical and honoring of both spouses and marriage, husbands and wives. Uh, we can’t afford to take each other for granted, especially after 20 or 30 or more years. If you want a strong and healthy relationship that will last your lifetime, you need the principles in the Benham’s book, Marriage A to Z: 30 Days to Relational Transformation. Contact us to get a copy. Make a monthly pledge of any amount. Let’s help other couples as well and we’ll put this book into your hands. That’s our way of saying thanks for partnering with us to help those marriages thrive too.
John: And of course, if a monthly pledge is more than you can do right now, a generous one-time gift also helps. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, or you can donate and get a copy of that book, Marriage A to Z at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
And while you’re there, another resource we have is our free marriage assessment, which is easy, it’s online, it’s going to help you identify strengths in your relationship and maybe an area or two of improvement. And, uh, it’ll give you a great way to have conversations in non-confrontational discussions. So look for the link to the marriage assessment at the website.
Jim: You know, our goal here at Focus on the Family is to be an ongoing resource for your marriage and family, whatever the questions you might have. That’s why we provide tools, advice, and encouragement like we hopefully have done today. And it’s having a great impact. A woman named Jordan shared this comment. “God is using your ministry to not only help me heal from my childhood, but also get help in changing the communication pattern with my husband. I believe God is using you to make our marriage so much stronger.” That’s wonderful news, I think. And, uh, here’s the thing. We can’t serve couples like Jordan and her husband without your support. Your ongoing gifts provide the fuel we need to save marriages, equip parents, rescue pre-born babies, and so much more. You are a part of it. You’re in the ministry when you support Focus on the Family. So let’s work together to equip and encourage more marriages like Jordan’s. A monthly pledge is a great way to do that, or a one-time gift, whatever you can do.
John: And once again, our phone number, 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, or just go to focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
And thanks for joining us for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back for more marriage insights from Jason and Tori Benham next time as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ.
